(device beeping) - Laura, can I see your plans for the August Pledge Drive?

- Sorry, Norm.

We're not doing an August Membership Drive.

We're taking a vacation from Pledge.

- A vacation from Pledge?

- [Employees] That's right, Norm.

A vacation from Pledge.

- [Employee 1] So long.

- [Employee 2] See you.

- [Employee 3] Bye.

- [Employee 4] Bye.

- [Employee 5] See you.

- [Employee 6] Bye, Norm.

♪ Tell me why ♪ - Wait, wait, what about me?

- Sorry, Norm.

Someone's gotta stay here and run the station.

- Run the station?

Hmm.

(graphic dinging) (telephone ringing) WXXI.

Can you hold?

(telephone ringing) WXXI.

Can you... Big Bird?

Oh, no, no.

Big Bird doesn't live here.

(telephone ringing) WXXI.

Can you hold?

(upbeat music) (camera equipment clicking) (upbeat music) Are you ready?

- Ready when you are.

- Tape is rolling.

Standby.

(uplifting music) Ready in three, two, one.

(uplifting music) - Hello, and welcome to a special edition of "Norm & Company."

I'm Evan Dawson.

Over the years, your host for "Norm & Company" has been, of course, Norm Silverstein, the CEO of WXXI since 1995.

Norm has interviewed community leaders, luminaries, people who strive to make our world better.

And today, I'm in the host chair because Norm is our guest.

After nearly three decades of leadership, Norm Silverstein will be retiring as CEO of WXXI.

When he arrived in the mid-1990s, WXXI was a very different place in more ways than one.

His leadership has transformed not only the physical structure we're sitting in today, but the size of the WXXI team, the strength of the membership, and the mission that WXXI serves.

You'll hear some behind-the-scenes stories and you'll hear how Norm views the changes that he has helped make.

I'm honored to say, "Hello," to Norm Silverstein.

Is this strange for you being on the other side?

(Evan laughing) - It's a little bit, but I had started out my career in broadcasting in the Washington area.

So being on the areas, I'm more comfortable with it than perhaps people would recognize.

- [Evan] Well- - And by the way, to give credit where credit's due, the title for this, "Norm & Company," came from my wife Jane.

- [Evan] Oh.

- Who thought that was what this show would be about.

- Well done, Jane.

Well, Paul McCartney once told a story about what happens to musicians who've been famous for decades.

He says they'll be in a grocery store, and the saw-you story will happen.

Someone will come up and they'll say, "Paul McCartney, saw you in Boston, saw you in London, saw you in LA in 1984."

You have a little bit of that that's happened to you over the years.

The CEO is in the grocery store, and it's not the saw-you, it's the tap-on-the-shoulder story.

What happens?

- Well, I go shopping like everybody else, and I feel something on my shoulder, and I turn around and there's someone who I don't know saying, "Thank you."

And I always say, "You're welcome, but what did I do?"

And they always say, "I just love what you've done with WXXI or what you've done with a Little Theatre.

We couldn't live without it."

- I mean, I love those kinds of stories, and I'm not surprised that you've gotten them over the years.

You're gonna continue to get those thank-yous.

You came to WXXI with a primary goal of seeing the company through its transition from analog to digital.

That transition was a remarkable success.

And leaders at PBS and other public media stations across the country have looked to you for guidance in their own transitions to digital media, which is now, of course, part of daily life.

You saw that early on.

You've come a long way since those early analog days.

When you arrived here, there were what?

Five, six computers in the building, and one of them was used as a door stop.

Is that true?

- Well, that is true.

There were five, I saw five computers when I took a tour of the station, and one was holding a door open, and it was like a very early laptop little screen, so I knew we had a little bit of work to do.

- Well, and I've also read in some of the speeches you've given that you came in the 1990s.

Now, by then, Kodak had peaked in the '80s of employment, but here you are coming right across the street from Kodak, and maybe you assume they'll also be a leader in a digital transition.

It didn't really happen with Kodak, and you're looking around and you think, "I guess WXXI is gonna have to be a leader."

Is that right?

- Well, that's true, to some extent.

we always want to be a leader.

I did think that given the history of Rochester with Xerox and Bausch + Lomb and Kodak, there would've been a little more emphasis on going digital.

But we did it with or without help from the outside.

- Did you know early on the necessity of getting that right?

Because there's so much change in media.

How important was it to you in those early years to get that transition right?

- Oh, that was really critical.

And just before I came to Rochester, I was leading a joint media project at College Park, Maryland, for Maryland Public TV and College Park.

And when I was asked by the President's Office there where I wanted to have my office, I said, "Well, any place on the campus?"

And they said, "Yes.

You're working for the President's Office."

I said, "Put me in the computer science center."

And I would probably be the last person you would expect there, but I just felt I had to get...

I had to be immersed in it and get ready for what I knew was a big change that was coming.

- I mean, so many people have told me, in preparing for this, how much work you did to make sure throughout the '90s into the next century, this building, this company, was ready.

And you were very forward-thinking, I think that's true.

Within five years of your arrival, a lot had already changed.

A big part of that was documentary filmmaking.

Now, WXXI was becoming a local PBS station creating national content.

And in some ways, it started with the partnership with the University of Rochester, focusing on an archeological dig in Israel.

Can you tell that story?

- [Norm] There was a dig in Israel, and the interesting thing to us was there were people from the University of Rochester, including the wife, I believe, of the president who were on that dig.

And we had an opportunity to follow what was going on with the students, with people from the university, and to bring that back and put that right on TV, which we, in the past, would never have had that opportunity.

- How important was it to you, and I guess I wanna know, was it intentional that what WXXI was doing, of course, it's gonna be shown here in our region, but we were becoming a national leader of sorts.

Content was coming from here, but it was going across the country.

Was that an intention of yours?

- Oh, yeah, definitely.

I thought that it was good for our viewers, it was good for WXXI, but most of all, it was good for Rochester that we were able to do something like that and to really share with the rest of the country some of the best things going on here.

And we still do that today.

- Well, no question, and I'm looking at a list of some of the documentary work.

In the ensuing 25 years, we've produced some pretty impressive documentaries.

It's a long list, I can't even possibly get them all.

It includes "Frank Lloyd Wright's Boynton House: The Next Hundred Years," coursework on Albert Paley, story of Wendell Castle, "Restoring a Masterpiece: The Story of the Eastman Theatre," it's a long list.

I mean, I can't ask you to choose, it's like choosing your favorite children, Norm, but you must be proud.

- I love the opportunity to do the work on the Boynton House.

And again, that was because people trusted us in the community.

We got a phone call from someone at the University of Rochester, saying that they knew the people who were restoring the house, and they were interested in seeing a documentary made.

And would we do it?

And I remember going with Elissa Orlando, who was our Vice President for Television, and we drove over to see the house, the, what we all say, the Frank Lloyd Wright House.

And it was covered in scaffolding and in all sorts of cover.

And we looked at each other, and I won't say what we said, but we were shocked.

And we immediately said, "We have gotta do this story."

And we worked with Fran Cosentino and Jane Parker who owned the house.

And today it's a Rochester landmark and it only gets better.

- [Evan] Here are some of those documentaries.

(uplifting music) - [Narrator 1] And what his team has left at Yodfat is a legacy, a mountain with a new place in history, and an open invitation to future generations.

- In 1850, Lewis Henry Morgan resurfaced to steer Parker's course.

Morgan needed help with his (indistinct) studies and he found his friend a new career as an engineer on the Erie Canal.

- [Speaker 1] When I first heard about it in Zurich, Switzerland, I was really excited about the whole project, then followed it to Chicago and thought, "Boy, if Chicago could do this, what better city to bring this to than Rochester, New York?"

- [Narrator 2] I looked down at the turquoise bracelet you sent me from San Juan.

I looked at the miniature suns carved on it, two of them, one on either side of the turquoise.

I looked at it, and everything you ever meant to me welled up in a great blur that hurt so much.

(somber music) - [Narrator 3] For Charlotte Hale, photographs from an amusement park bring back happy memories of her son, Tyshaun Caldwell, but her smile quickly fades with another memory.

Our 10-year-old Tyshaun was shot and killed last year while he was on his bicycle.

- I guess Tyshaun heard my voice outside, so he came outside with his sneakers, and I teased him about his sneakers.

I grabbed him around his neck, kissed him in the top of his head, and he just sat there for a couple of minutes.

- [Narrator 4] Decades of vision, loving care, luck, and sweat have transformed these rolling acres of once worthless farmland into one of the most honored shrines to golf.

(orchestraic music) - [Narrator 5] Built in 1922 as part of a school of music that has become world-famous, this auditorium is a musical mecca for its many students, inspiring awe as much as opportunity.

(orchestraic music) (lighthearted music) - [Narrator 6] After the first picture, it became apparent the students had such a good time.

I mean, they were talking about it for weeks.

- [Speaker 2] They were so excited.

They said, "What can we do next year?"

(celebratory music) - This is the first time we've really done a project that will be here, hopefully, for another 100 years, and be a community interest.

(celebratory music) It's taking something from the past and preserving it so that future generations can enjoy it as much as you do.

(upbeat music) - [Narrator 7] More than two years after being invited to exhibit his work in New York City, Paley's team arrives at Park Avenue.

- I just sit there and think, "I can actually do this."

I am actually sitting here playing.

I never thought I would do that.

it's amazing, it's a wonderful feeling.

(orchestraic music) - [Narrator 8] Similar to other local firms in the garment industry, the Rochester Button Company had a reputation for quality and supplied buttons for many of the major fashion houses.

It's probably safe to assume that during the 20th century, when you left your home dressed to look your best, you probably wore a Button Company product.

- My parents had been to college.

It was just sort of assumed I was gonna go to college.

My second year, the first semester, I got a chance to take an elective and I took art.

I hadn't planned on being an artist.

I hadn't done any kind of artwork since I was a child.

(uplifting music) - [Narrator 9] In the Southern Tier, the forests have returned, as have Black Bear.

It's about connecting existing public lands and protecting resources like the Finger Lakes Trail.

And then in between, we have limited available Lakeshore left that's not developed.

It's securing those last gems, both to preserve vital habitat, and then also give the public a chance to get out on these lakes.

- [Speaker 3] I did celebrate Kwanzaa with my children as they were growing up.

We would attend all the events.

We would hold our ceremonies at home, exchange our Zawadis.

It was actually a full connected part of my life.

- I like him to be able to just have a typical life.

- My dreams, I want him to have like an easygoing life.

- I want him to have friends, family.

I want him to be loved.

- I want Kate to have a really good life.

- [Garth] I might be up there singing with the Angels, but they can refer to me, "How would Garth handle this?"

(audience cheering) And they know the deep place of passion and love that all of the work comes from.

(audience applauding) - [Speaker 4] I think it's still important to offer a high-quality education at a conservatory like Eastman.

It's very important, I think, that students come out with their skills massively improved.

Otherwise, they can't be competitive.

(uplifting music) - Paley Castle.

I hope Rochesterians appreciate their stories and one of the reasons that they know these stories is because of WXXI, the documentary team, your leadership.

And it's been interesting to see the national sort of appreciation for that.

I think about Paley Castle, I hope they've also appreciated the work that's happened here.

- Oh, yeah, I think so.

They were very cooperative in helping us get the real story, the story behind the story, particularly with Albert Paley, who was still an active artist and turning out some great work.

- Well, you've also been committed to expanding WXXI's coverage in other ways, and I want to talk a little bit about "Second Opinion."

You talk about a national television show, broadcast on more than 280 public stations across the country, and I love the story of how "Second Opinion" came together in the first place, and I wonder if you could share some of that.

- I can share some of that.

I was invited to dinner by a group of doctors in Rochester known as the CoNE Journal Society.

They get together, and they would invite people to speak and ask questions.

And I didn't...

I wasn't here very long.

And I remember I was taking questions and from the audience, and one of the doctors said, "I have a question.

Why isn't there more health programming on television?

In particular, how come there isn't more on public television?"

And I said, "Well, that's because it's really expensive.

If you're going to do a show like that, it has to be for a national audience.

It's the only way you can get the kind of sponsorship that makes any sense.

And it would be expensive."

And one of the doctors said, "Well, what do you mean?

How much?"

"That could be $1 million."

And one of the doctors said, "Well, that's not so much money.

We raise money like that all the time."

So I kinda laughed and said, "Well, if you can raise the money, we'll do the show."

And I remember coming in the next morning and saying to my number two here, Susan Rogers, "I'm not sure, but I think I may have committed us to doing a National Health Series on public television last night."

(Evan laughing) - And I love, we all love Sue.

I'm sure her reaction was very measured.

- Oh, knowing Sue, you can imagine what her reaction was.

(Evan laughing) And we did occasionally raise about 1 million.

Not every year, but do you know that show was on for 18 seasons on television, which is almost unheard of.

- [Evan] Amazing.

Amazing.

More than 280 stations.

You could have chosen to do that with expertise from Mayo.

That that was a big suggestion, I think, at the time.

And I know you wanted to highlight talent in Rochester.

- That's true.

We were talking to other medical centers, including Mayo Clinic, and... Well, I'll tell you this story because she's no longer president of PBS, so I won't get in trouble.

But we were visited by the then-president of PBS.

And on the way out, she said, "Oh, I'll be seeing a lot more of you because I just got appointed to the board of the Mayo Clinic."

And I just smiled and didn't say anything because obviously, she was mixing up- - Rochester, Minnesota from Rochester, New York, yeah.

- And Rochester, New York.

And that's when I said, "This is supposed to be one of the drivers of the economy for the coming years for Rochester."

And everyone was talking about how the university, and the city, they were all investing in making this the future of Rochester.

And I said, "Why would we, for whatever reason, put our resources behind the Mayo Clinic or any place out of state when we are trying to help build the economy here.

We'll go for it here."

And you know what?

It worked out great.

- Oh, no regrets to that at all, right?

I mean, I think it was probably clear very early on that it was going to work, wasn't it?

- Well, we had a lot of help from the people in charge at the University of Rochester.

That's how we were able to make it happen.

And they supported us, and we had underwriting.

We had...

The Head of Excellus then was David Klein.

And he knew the people in Chicago who were the people who really ran Blue Cross Blue Shield nationally.

And when they came for a visit, he brought them over to the station and he made a pitch.

He said, "You really should be the sponsors of this series."

And they knew David, and they trusted him, and they came on as sponsors for about 15, 16 years.

- We're talking to Norm Silverstein, who is going to be retiring as CEO of WXXI.

This is a special edition of "Norm & Company."

And as you probably know, over the years, Norm has interviewed so many luminaries in our community, and it is our turn to turn the tables a little bit on him.

I was told before this program by many people that, "When you talk to Norm about Norm, he usually makes it about the community, he makes it about the mission, he makes it about WXXI."

That is no surprise.

Let me try to talk to Norm a little bit about Norm.

And there's a story that I think is...

It's a little inside baseball, but I think it's instructive as to how your leadership has been transformative.

It was never a guarantee that acquiring City Newspaper, now CITY Magazine, creating a partnership with The Little Theatre, it was never a guarantee that that would happen at all and it was never a guarantee that it would work.

And maybe there was a part of your career where you wouldn't have done it.

You told me before we sat down together that there was some work that you did in your career that maybe changed your evaluation of risk aversion.

And I wonder if you could share that.

- Well, Bill Baker, who was the president of WNET, the New York Public Station, called me up one day and said, "I'm on the board of this Spanish university that is really well-known across Europe."

And he said, "I think you would benefit from coming and doing one of their six-month courses."

And I kind of chuckled and said, "Well, Bill, I have a master's degree from Johns Hopkins.

What are they gonna teach me?"

He said, "No, really, you should look into this."

And I kind of kept putting it to the side, and Bill just kept saying, "We'll give you like a great price," which was true, it was almost free for me to go.

And we also had a board chair who was from Spain for a while.

And he said, "Oh, that's the IESE Business School.

They're like the Harvard of Europe.

If you have an opportunity to go, do it."

So I said, "Let me talk to somebody who's done this."

And I remember pulling out of the garage one day, and my phone rang, and I pulled over, and it was a woman who had just finished this course.

And I said, "Well, why should I spend all this time?"

- [Evan] Sure.

- "Doing this?"

And she said, "Well, when I finished the six-month course, I wanted to run back down to NBC headquarters, jump on my desk and yell, 'We're doing everything wrong.

We've gotta start over.'"

And I laughed and I said, "You've got me."

Because that's how I felt.

I thought it was time that we had to like look at things differently.

And sure enough, it wasn't long after I did this that Sue walked into the office one day and said, she said she was on the board of The Little Theatre and they were having a lot of trouble with...

They needed a new executive director, and all the things that they needed, we were really good at.

Would I consider a merger?

Well, it wasn't just my decision, but I knew I could take it to the board.

And if it was five years earlier, I might've said, "Look, we've got all these commitments, and we have to concentrate on what we're doing."

But I realized I was being risk averse, and I said, "We can take a look at it."

And with the help of the board, and it took about a year to get this done.

We were able to find a way to take over The Little Theatre and to make it part of the WXXI family.

And then I found out something really important.

People in Rochester love The Little Theatre.

- [Evan] They love The Little- - [Norm] It's iconic.

- [Evan] Yeah.

- And if I had realized that sooner, I might have said to... We could have merged and even gotten them going a lot quicker.

As soon as I started getting, as you said, the taps on the shoulder, people saying, "Thank you," I realized we had done the right thing.

And now, it just keeps growing.

- Yeah, I love that story.

And when it comes to risk aversion, can I just ask for your view now at this point in your career?

Because part of what you and I have talked about is the fact that this is not just...

This is not a money-making operation; this is a mission-driven operation.

And every person who's a CEO is gonna have a slightly different mission.

But for you, what is the most important thing you've learned about risk and where to take it?

- Well, in this case, it was things that were important and good for the community.

That's where you take your risks.

And I hope that that continues for a long time, because that's what public media was created for.

- I mentioned CITY Magazine as well, the City Newspaper.

Again, that was no obvious choice.

There was a hard consideration.

Print is really hurting.

We're very proud of CITY, and I love that we're all in the same family now, but can you talk a little bit about that one?

- Well, the Tollers had been running that paper since mid-1970s, and it had always been free.

And they said, they called us up and said, "We're getting on, and we're gonna have to be retiring soon, and we would really want to turn this over to someone who will keep it going and build on it."

And they looked to us.

And we took a hard look at it, I mean, same thing.

We got our board involved.

We didn't just make quick decisions on things like this.

And we thought, "Well, what was going on around the country?

I mean, it was already the beginning of the stories about newspapers shutting down, news sources going away."

And we thought we had an opportunity, perhaps with CITY, to keep it going and to also be a part of the journalism and public affairs part of the community.

And I think that, so far, so good.

- No question.

I wanna go back a little bit before your time at WXXI.

I know you are proud, deservedly so, of your journalism career.

In your office, there is a newspaper photo of a scrum of reporters with a young journalist right in the middle of the scrum wearing a big mustache.

Before we even get to the journalism, what happened to the mustache?

- It got shaven off, and it probably should never have been there to begin with.

- You don't have to apologize.

I think they're coming back, Norm.

I don't know about you and me, but I think mustaches are coming back.

You were a young reporter, and that story is so central to what you learned about journalism and, frankly, to your own career.

Can you tell the story of what was happening there?

- Well, I was a reporter for WTOP Washington, which was the all-news station that CBS had in the Washington area.

And you all remember the hostage crisis with the takeover of the American Embassy and what was going on, and I was assigned...

Pretty much for the year, I was assigned to cover what was going on with what was happening locally from the hostage crisis.

And as we got closer and closer to where it looked like the hostages might be freed, I was told by our assistant news director, he said, "But you better be ready to leave quickly because if the hostages are freed, we're sending you over to Germany where we know they're gonna be coming to."

And sure enough, one morning, I get a phone call, and it was our news director saying, "Meet me down at the State Department Press Room.

We think the hostages are gonna be freed.

We might be sending you over to Germany tonight."

Little did I know, by 6:00, I was on an airplane going over to Germany, and I turned out to be really one of the only local station reporters in the country who was sent to cover the story.

Everyone else had sent like their top people from the networks.

And so I was able to do a lot of work.

It was two weeks, by the way, before they were actually... - Did you speak any German?

- No, but John Chen from CBS was there, and when the hostages were freed, we were talking and he said, "Hey, you're on the front page of the paper here."

And I said, "You're kidding."

He said, "No, I speak German."

He said, "I've got the paper," and he handed it to me.

And there I was, bad mustache and all, with a microphone.

And it was one of the first interviews with a freed hostage.

And that was in (indistinct), but I had also been at the Rhein-Main Air Base, which was where the hostages landed after they were freed.

And that's another great story.

I mean, this was before everybody had satellites.

There were no cell phones, it was almost impossible to get a line back to the US.

And I was looking around and I noticed that on a table, there was a telephone, and it was the CBS table.

And I went over to John Chen, and I said, "Do you mind if I make a phone call?"

And he said, "Yeah, you're one of a CBS affiliate."

He said, "Go ahead and use the phone."

So I called our newsroom directly from the runway at the Rhein-Main Air Base.

And they were, of course, shocked because we hadn't set this up.

And I went 45 straight minutes talking while the plane was coming in.

And you know what, that's like ad-libbing for 45 minutes.

And it was great.

- And they kept you on air.

- They kept me on the air, and we were probably the only local station doing that, and I was really very proud of it.

And so I spent about two weeks over in Germany.

And to be there when the hostages were free, that was really something.

- What a series of stories.

And as you know now, watching newsrooms across the country shrink, newspapers are shuttering or cutting staff.

I wanna just kind of get your take on the state of journalism now.

I mean, I remember when I was in college, and I'm a little younger than you, that there was concern even then that newspapers would shrink or that who knows what the online revolution would do.

I don't think I suspected we'd get to a point where we'd see this much shrinking and this much challenge for journalism to keep working.

How do you see it?

- I never would've expected this.

This is far beyond anything I would've thought and the way things have changed and not for the better in terms of where people are putting their money nationally.

People are buying the Gannett chain, things like that.

Who would've ever expected that?

Like, chains as big as that would be teetering.

So yeah, it was a surprise.

We're starting to see some people investing again in news, but it's very slow.

- [Evan] It's tough.

- We're seeing more people getting out, and I mean, I have a friend who, I won't say who it is, but he was a publisher of a major paper, and he took an early out package and I said, "Why did you do that?

You could be working for years."

He said, "I just didn't wanna spend the rest of my career laying people off."

So, yeah, there's a lot of room for people to come in and come back with good news, and public affairs, and that's part of what we're doing here.

I mean, that's what we're trying to raise money for.

Now, if you said, "Do you have something that now that you're leaving behind that you wish you could finish?"

It would be doing more to build up news.

And by the way, we have one of the biggest news departments now in this community.

- [Evan] I think the best.

- [Norm] It's not well-known.

- [Evan] I think the best.

- People didn't expect it because we weren't always there.

We didn't always have the ability to do this.

But we've been raising funds and we've been doing a lot of work, and you can hear it when you tune into our news radio.

There's a lot of reports from the folks at CITY.

I mean, when we merged with CITY, that really immediately gave us a stronger news department, and we're very proud of that.

- I share a lot of those sentiments, and just, I'm grateful for...

I think the fact that you at the helm of WXXI have a journalism background has made us stronger.

It's one of the few newsrooms I've been in that didn't cut immediately after I got there.

And so perhaps in the future, this will work.

And you're no stranger, by the way, to working with politicians.

You did some work for a politician for five or six years in Maryland, I think.

- Yeah, I was Deputy Press Secretary to the governor of Maryland for five years.

- And you learn a lot there, and some politicians have been maybe more receptive to your phone calls over the years than less.

But do you think your time working in that office for those six years or so helped prepare you for the work that you had to do as CEO?

- Oh, yeah, for sure.

It was... We have to do a lot of, I shouldn't say lobbying.

Let's say advocacy.

- The advocacy, there you go.

- To keep federal funding for public broadcasting.

And we had really run into some really tough times on the Hill because people think that if you're not with them, you're with the other side if you... And you know what I mean by that because you host a show every day.

- Of course.

- And so yeah, it took a little while to get to really understand who I needed to talk to on the Hill.

But I became very comfortable with it, and I know a lot of people aren't comfortable going up and asking for funding, but I feel what we do is so important.

It's so important to education, it's so important to our communities that the funding that we get is well-spent.

And I never turned down a chance to go to Washington and to make that case.

- Well, I mean certainly, if Fred Rogers can make the case as he so merrily did in 1969, I think we all should be willing to make the case if we believe in it, and we do.

You also have developed these relationships, and really to your credit, not with ideological or partisan intent.

Everything feels a little charged these days.

But as I've watched your career, you have developed relationships with Republicans, Democrats, people who work at state levels of government, national levels of government, people like the late Louise Slaughter, who I know you remember well.

- [Norm] Louise Slaughter was one of the first people to call me up when my appointment as CEO here was announced.

And I went up to the Hill, and she spent about three hours with me taking me through what I would expect to find in Rochester and why it was so important that we work to help education be lifted in this community.

- That says a lot about her.

I also think that the evidence of your success can be measured in the strength of WXXI's membership, and I suspect a lot of people watching right now are in that category.

I started here just over 10 years ago.

And when Connections would start in 2014, we would hear, "Connections is supported by our members and by a gift from the estate of Teresa Marie Feller."

And it occurred to me, "People put WXXI in their will."

I found that incredible, and wonderful, and beautiful.

Was that happening when you arrived?

- It was starting up when I arrived, and there was some work already being done.

Nancy Brush was our Head of Development many years ago and she started that effort here.

But when I got in, I thought this was something that...

I knew that universities did this.

They asked people for, they would say, bequest gifts or major gifts.

And we weren't doing it in our industry, not very much.

And I thought that might be an opportunity for us, and it's actually become something that's been a very big part of our funding stream.

At least $1 million a year every year, I think, for more than the past 10 years.

And that's not bad.

- No, and a lot of the members are now sustaining members.

That has changed over the years.

That's a big emphasis of what WXXI does.

We are proud of that.

Sometimes, when I see the numbers, I think, "I can't believe this many people in the community are members."

And then there are times I think, "I think we should have more."

How do you feel about the state of membership?

- You can never have too many.

(Evan laughing) And I hope people watching, if you appreciate everything we've done, I hope that if you're not a member, it's a great opportunity for you to become a member now and to help us keep plugging away here and serving this community to the best of our ability with your help.

I'll tell you a funny story about legacy societies.

I was at a PBS meeting, and I was standing next to the head of this San Diego station, and San Diego's a pretty big city, at least compared to Rochester.

And I won't say the person's name 'cause he's still around, but my friend at the other station said, "We have a great legacy society."

And I said, "Oh, that's good.

Yeah, we have a pretty good one, too."

And he said, "Yeah," he said, "We have a lot of members."

And I said, "Yeah, really?"

And he looked at me and he said, "Yeah."

He said, "We have 50 members, people who have said they've remembered us in their estates."

- [Evan] In their will, yeah.

- And he looked at me and he said, "How many do you have?"

I said, "250."

And he punched me.

(Evan laughing) - Playfully, I hope.

- He didn't...

Yes, he didn't believe me that in the city the size of Rochester, that many people have committed that part of their estate to help this continue.

And that's people who love what we do in news, love what we do with classical music, everything else.

And I was always very proud of that story.

- Well, when Norm gets the taps on the shoulder and someone is saying, "Thank you," it's always a little bit of a different story because WXXI serve so many different parts of this community in such a broad mission.

And those who put us in the will, it's not all the same.

It means so much that under your leadership, people are willing to do that.

There are also donors who've given up to $2 million and then there are donors, like the man who came in with the story of the ring who give $2,000, but those stories move your heart.

And I know you've told the story many times, but this needs to be told.

It's the story of the ring.

Can you do that?

- Yes, and we do call it "The Ring Story."

- "The Ring Story."

- Well, one day, Kathy Reed, our Head of Development, knocked on my door and she said, "There's someone in the lobby who has a check for WXXI.

I don't know him, but I'm gonna go down and get it.

Do you want to meet him?"

And I said, "Sure, I always wanna meet our supporters."

And I walk down the steps, and I look in the lobby, and there's an elderly gentleman, and he is wearing a Rochester Red Wings sweatshirt and then a cap, and anybody walking down the street.

And I walked up and introduced myself and he hands me a check for $2,000.

And I was a little bit stunned.

People don't usually walk in off the street with checks like that.

And I said, "Well, what is it about XXI that prompted you to do this?"

And his eyes kind of welled up.

And he said, "Well, three years ago, I got my wife a ring, and she said to me, 'If something ever happens to me, I want you to sell the ring and give the proceeds to WXXI.'"

Well, I was so taken aback by it.

I didn't know what to say.

I kind of just said, "You don't have to do that."

And he looked at me and he said, "Oh, yes, I do.

My daughter called and said, 'What's happening with mom's ring?'

And when I told her, she said, 'Well, then you've gotta do that because that's what mom wanted.'"

And he said, "I went to three jewelry stores until I was at one in..." And I think he said it was in Brockport.

And he said when the owner found out what he was doing was selling the ring for WXXI, he said, "I'll give you the best price," and that's how the $2,000 came.

And we were just stunned.

I just was so proud to be with an organization that inspired people to do things like that.

So it wasn't much later, I was at a PBS meeting, I believe in Washington.

And you're at a conference, and everything at the end at a conference, people can't wait to get out.

- [Evan] Ready to go home.

- Yeah, people are yawning.

And I just, I don't know why, but I stood and I said, "Excuse me, but I wanna share something with you because it tells you why we do what we do."

And I told the story, and I looked around, there were hundreds of people in the room, and there was hardly a dry eye in the house.

And the president of PBS has taken that story around the country and told other stations about it.

- What a story.

That's the story of the ring.

There are many, many people who have given gifts because this matters to them, it matters to their family, and that may be is the most emblematic.

But to everybody who is a member, I know that there's so much gratitude and appreciation.

One of the great benefits of transitioning to digital is the ability for our colleagues in radio and television to meet audiences where they are.

This marks 50 years of Classical 91.5.

And our colleagues in the Classical Department say that with digital technology, they can highlight the rich cultural community that really is Rochester and bring wonderful local music to everyone in the community.

What do you think WXXI's role is in elevating the local arts community?

- Well, I think it's really important, and people look to us to help promote what's going on.

But mostly, they look to us because they know, we don't see the other organizations here as competitors, but as our potential partners.

And you can ask folks at the RPO, at GVA, at Mag, and you can go on and on.

And we're always looking for opportunities to work with and to help the other organizations be successful.

And I think that's a big reason why we were created, to do things like that.

I never understand why people feel we should be competing with anybody for funding.

We should be working together to get more funding and to do more for the community.

- You have established numerous partnerships with the arts community, from Garth Fagan Dance, to the Eastman School of Music, the Jazz Festival.

Some of those have been the subjects of documentaries produced by WXXI.

- Well, we did about eight or 10 shows that went out nationally on the Jazz Festival.

And I mean, I loved being able to do those.

It's expensive, we can't always do those shows every year.

But when we did them, we always heard back positive things about the city.

People loved seeing Rochester on nationally.

- And when it comes to the partnerships you've established here, I mean, I think of Garth Fagan Dance.

I mean, he is a legend.

I like to think that the partnership has helped both parties there.

WXXI, Garth Fagan Dance, I mean the Jazz Festival.

I think everyone benefits in that realm.

I'm not talking about journalism, it's a different mission, but that's the beauty of WXXI.

And I think that your leadership has made the arts community stronger.

- Well, thanks, because that's what I was hoping it would do.

I really believe in the arts community and what we can do for it.

And there were...

I know, when I was first appointed 30 years ago, I got a call from a woman who was...

They used to have these positions called editors at the DNC.

And she said, "Are you gonna be like the other folks in town competing for all the dollars here?"

And I said, "No."

I said, "We're gonna be looking for partnerships here."

And that's what I...

I said it from the first time I was interviewed, and I hope I kept to that.

I'll tell you something else that was interesting.

I took some criticism for not taking the classical music off of our most powerful station, 91.5, and putting the news on it because that's what was going on around the country in almost every community.

People who had an AM station with news and an FM station with music, they were taking the more powerful stations and they were putting the news on there.

But I kept, and I did take criticism for it.

People were asking, "Don't you know how to run a station?"

And I said, "Well, I know how to run a station that benefits our community."

And always defended our decision to keep a classical on our most powerful signal.

And I think it really helped the RPO, and that's what I was told by people at the RPO, that more people heard them on 91.5 that never got to the theatre to see them.

So we really were helping to boost them, too.

- Well, and if I could say, in Norm's defense, he needs no defense from me, that no one really can quite predict.

We've all stopped predicting the future of radio or how things evolve and change.

There's been a tremendous amount of change.

But you can't say that WXXI is not just about everywhere that people are.

FM stations, AM stations, multiple.

Classical.

News, of course, NPR, this relationship with NPR, PBS, all of these different platforms, many more platforms, frankly, than when you arrived.

- Oh, yeah.

It's... Huh, as you were saying that, I was thinking, "Well, I guess we went from, when I got here, we had a television station, and we had a classical music station, and we had the AM news station, and now we have four digital TV channels and we have seven public radio stations, including some on the outskirts of this community, not all in Rochester."

Let's see, and we have the city news, and we have The Little Theatre.

- [Evan] I'm not gonna quiz you, don't quiz me.

It's a long list.

- Yeah, it is a long list.

- [Evan] It's a long list.

- And I hope that that list just gets bigger.

- Yeah, absolutely.

One of the things that worries me, and I know you've talked about this and I think in an RBJ interview, is that we can talk about cord cutters, people who are getting rid of cable, but there are also, as you have pointed out, a growing group of young adults who've never had a television, and reaching them is a challenge as well.

We all have to try to find different ways to get on different platforms, right?

- Yes, that's absolutely right.

And everybody in the media business is trying to figure out the answer to some of these puzzles and questions.

- I think that your successor has a lot of work to do there, but you've set us up so well here.

And you talk a lot about mission.

So let's talk about this.

Another focus that Norm has had has been on lifelong learning starting at an early age.

You've been a leader in garnering local and national support for funding for, as you said, educational broadcasting, training opportunities, family events, and so much more.

What do you see as WXXI's role in helping promote education from pre-K through adulthood?

- Well, look at our history.

We did a show called "Assignment: The World."

It was the longest-running educational show on television, not on public television, on television.

And we had "Homework Hotline" for many years that gave kids an opportunity to call in and to participate in the shows.

So we've set the stage for a lot of this, but things do change over time, and we've gotta find different ways to reach people.

That's the critical, I think, challenge for my successor.

- [Evan] And I know that the Education Department here, they're thinking about that every day.

They do a great job, don't they?

- We never talk enough about what we do in education.

The pandemic really brought it out.

Yes, of course, people had computers, and they could get on their computer and do some work.

But what I found during the pandemic was there were a lot of households.

Yeah, they had a computer, but the person who used the computer had to be the breadwinner who couldn't go into the office.

And so, what was left for the kids?

Well, we still had our channels, our regular over-the-air channels, and people called up and thanked me because that made a difference.

There was still a place for their kids to go, particularly the younger kids.

And they didn't have to...

They couldn't have done all about us because there was no other way to reach us.

People, again, they didn't have two or three computers in their house.

Things are a little different today.

Everybody has a computer, but that's really not even true.

There's still a lot of people who can't afford two or three.

- No, you're exactly right.

There's a lot of access issues, even still.

And I want to think about, for a moment, about a decision you made that also put kids first.

In 2016, you shared a story with the Rochester Business Journal about a time you had to make an unusual choice when it came to children's programming.

It was on September 11th, 2001.

You decided that WXXI should run kids programming, rather than just drop everything, go to coverage of the attacks.

You mentioned NPR is on it, other stations are on it.

But you said that for youth and their parents, there had to be a safe haven as well that day.

You said, "We got letters from people thanking us for that hard call."

"Sometimes," this is what you told RBJ.

"Sometimes you make what seems to be a counterintuitive choice, but on that day, we felt that is what families needed the most."

What brought you to that decision, and how do you think it reflects the work that we do?

- I just knew that people turning on their sets, almost every channel had coverage of what was going on in New York City.

And it was not something you wanted maybe a seven, or eight, or 10-year-old to be watching.

And that we had an opportunity to bring kids back.

And what I was hearing from parents was, "Thank you, because I didn't know what to do.

I couldn't watch this.

I couldn't put my son or daughter in front of the set.

But because you had that programming on, we could go where we wanted to go to watch what was happening in the city, but there was a place for our kids."

Now, you always have to put kids first.

- [Evan] I think our Education Department makes sure that people who can't even afford to be members of WXXI have programming, have resources.

You talked about it during the pandemic.

How important is it that WXXI across our platforms and missions are for everybody, no paywalls, no barriers to entry, that we are for everybody?

- We want to be there for everybody.

You go back to: Why was public media even created?

It was to be there for people when they needed something from the media, but the commercial media wasn't going to be filling in the gaps, wasn't gonna be doing it.

And we were always proud to be able to do something that really made a difference in education.

And you look at things like Head Start.

When there have been surveys, the work that we do is actually been better for kids than some of the Head Start work.

So we know that we're not- - It's powerful.

- We're doing something we know is making a difference, and we want to keep doing it.

- It's powerful.

Here's another way you've made a difference.

Let's talk about Move to Include, which has grown into a national initiative.

It all started with dialogue on disability.

And I know there's a great story on how it came together.

- I picked up the phone one day, and it was my good friend Dan Meyers, and he wanted to talk to me about something that he did every year called "Dialogue on Disability."

And he said, "I get a grant from a foundation, and I do a something at a auditorium, and we talk about intellectual disabilities."

And he said, "I realized that, you know what?

Every year, I'm reaching the same people with the same message.

And maybe, Norm, if we give you the grant we get from the foundation and let you figure out how to use media, we'll reach more people."

And it wasn't a lot of money for TV and radio.

- Sure.

- But, something about it just kind of...

It just made me think, "We should do this."

So they started with about 400 people in an auditorium.

And when they turned over the grant to us, in the first year alone, we know we reached 30,000 people.

So we thought maybe this is something that we should be devoting a little more time to.

- [Evan] Let's take a look at some of that work.

(bright upbeat music) - Enter WXXI.

2003, we started the partnership, and it's just grown over the years, and we've been the beneficiary of incredible stories, even more and more content, and then being able to see that we're building a world that is getting closer and closer to inclusion.

- People in the disability community often say, "Nothing about us without us," and we understand what that means at WXXI.

And we try to bring in people with disabilities to be part of the story and not always to be talked about.

We think that makes a real difference.

It's become part of the DNA of the staff.

Our folks go out and look for opportunities to share programming.

- It's interesting, you talk about the growth of dialogue on disability and how that was kind of the seed that became Move to Include.

And as you know, they're both still going on.

At the same time, "Dialogue on Disability" happens every year.

It is a big part of our community.

Al Sigl Community of Agencies is central to that.

They've been such wonderful partners, too, haven't they?

- They've been terrific partners, and we couldn't have done this without them.

And we were happy to be able to work with them every year.

And we also got funding from the Golisano Foundation, which is the largest foundation in the country dealing with those issues, and also from the Corporation for Public Broadcasting.

And we are working now to try to make this a national initiative.

(bright upbeat music) - [Announcer] In 2019, Move to Include caught national attention at the Corporation for Public Broadcasting.

WXXI was challenged to develop a pilot program to expand Move to Include onto a national stage.

- This gave us a chance to dive in very deeply through all of our content platforms into exploring the pain points and the realities for persons who live with disabilities, as well as those who care for and love and serve them.

- [Announcer] We began to lead the project with five PBS affiliates across the country.

- Having WXXI as an experienced Move to Include station as the mother ship was wonderful if we needed advice, guidance, assets.

- [Announcer] Expanding on the work we began with the Golisano Foundation in 2014, Move to Include continues to be a powerful force, inspiring and informing public media audiences about the importance of inclusion and understanding.

- We know we're reaching over 1 million people.

That's pretty incredible.

And we intend to keep doing it and bring this out to other stations until it's something that's just part of what we all do in public media.

(bright upbeat music) - When the community hears WXXI, it's 2024, a lot has changed in three decades.

What do you want people to think about when they hear WXXI?

- That this is a place where you're always gonna learn something when you tune in, no matter what.

Whether you're listening to something from the Gateways Music Festival, or you're watching a show with your kids, a show that maybe was originated from something from say, "Sesame Street," that's what I want people to always think about, that they're always gonna learn something and it's always gonna be something that their kids will benefit from.

- There's a lot of people in this building who appreciate not only your leadership, but the decisions you've made that have allowed for a lot of growth.

I'm one of them.

There's not a whole lot of talk shows locally left in the country, regional shows.

You had to make a decision more than 10 years ago what to do about that.

It's part of the reason I'm here.

Every department, it seems, has grown in 30 years.

Do you think about your legacy?

Do you think about what you want people to remember about you or think about you and your time here?

- I never really thought much about my legacy, to be honest, but I always thought about the station.

I wanted people to think about XXI being a special place, and being a place people want to come to work, and being a place that makes a difference.

- Well, I wanna close by asking you: I've been the host today.

You've been the host many times for "Norm & Company" throughout your career, and you've certainly talked to luminaries in this community, people like the Glazers, and I wanted to give you some space to share some final thoughts on what you learned in those kind of conversations.

- I'll tell you what I learned from the Glazers.

First of all, I love them, Jane and Larry.

They were the co-chairs of our capital campaign, and they were always there whenever we needed something.

And the day that their plane went down is one that I'll never forget.

It tore my heart out when I heard what was going on.

And I think that there's one thing that Larry said at the end of our interview, because I interviewed both of them.

Usually, I interviewed one person, but in their case, for whatever reason, both Jane and Larry did a lot of...

They both contributed so much to the community, I thought they should be interviewed together.

And at at the end of the show, I said something to Larry about, "Is there anything you'd like to add?"

And he said, "You gotta give back.

You've gotta give back."

And he meant, said, "To the community."

And that was how we ended that show.

- Well, I have to say it feels good to give back to the community.

The community has been great to us, and I personally have been blessed with the Tinker Bell Theory.

I have this Tinker Bell dust that's sprinkled over me, and it's been terrific.

So, you gotta give back.

- "You gotta give back."

I never forgot that.

- What you've done to grow the membership and the mission, I think it's been well-covered this hour, but I just want to thank you on behalf of all of the staff.

It has been an honor.

Thank you very much.

- Well, you're very welcome.

And it's been an honor to work with such great people, and it seems like every time I look at an email, it's usually saying something about another award given to someone at the station, including Edward R. Murrow Awards, the biggest awards in broadcasting.

And we just we have a joke that we, we really have to do some more construction because we don't have room for all the awards the station has won.

(Evan laughing) - It's a reflection of so many wonderful people and also of you.

That is Norm Silverstein reflecting on a remarkable career in leadership.

He's given so much to public broadcasting, and our community is stronger and better for it.

So from a long list of WXXI team members who have contributed to this production, I say thank you for watching.

(uplifting music) (pensive music)