From WXXI news I'm Jasmine Singer and this is Environmental Connections.

Today's environmental connection began one frigid evening last winter, when I was driving through a rural stretch of western New York.

I was on my way home.

I had 103 miles of range left in my electric car, and just over 90 miles to go.

Normally, that's plenty, but it was 14 degrees outside and I had the heat cranked up, and the only public fast charger along my route had been under maintenance for weeks.

That moment, watching the battery drop faster than expected.

Nervously refreshing the Plug Share app, it's a familiar one to many EV drivers, and it captures so much of what today's show is about.

New York State wants all new vehicles sold by 2035 to be zero emission.

But the road to get there, especially in places like Rochester and the Finger Lakes, it's filled with potholes, both literal and metaphorical.

So today we're asking why aren't more people driving EVs?

What's standing in the way of this transition, and what needs to happen to get us back on course?

Joining me live today are two people who bring very different, but complementary expertise to this conversation.

In the studio with me is my colleague Brian Sharp, investigative editor here at Sky, who's been reporting on EV infrastructure and the readiness of it in our region.

Welcome, Brian.

Thanks for having me.

And joining us remotely all the way from France is Eric Hiddink, the associate professor at all right.

And the 2024 president of the US Association for Energy Economics.

Welcome, Eric.

Or should I say Bonjour?

And yes.

Thank you for having me.

Thanks for being here.

Before we get to these two sharp minds, no pun intended, Brian, I spoke earlier with state Senator Jeremy Cooney, chair of the State Senate Transportation Committee and a key player in shaping EV policy across New York.

Here's that conversation.

Senator Cooney, thank you so much for speaking with me.

First of all, I know you're a very, very busy person and we really appreciate it.

Glad to be here.

Happy to help.

And this is a topic that I'm very passionate about and I know you are too.

So let's start with the big picture.

New York has what I would say is a bold 2035 zero emissions mandate.

So in broad strokes, what are the details of that plan.

And from your vantage point, is that goal still realistic?

Well, I can tell you that New York is absolutely committed to our climate goals, both in the clean EPA as well as as a signatory to some of the climate agreements that other states have taken on states like California, where we have signed on as a signatory to their clean Air Act guidelines.

and so those have impacts on our state environmental and air quality policies.

So we are committed, despite some changes at the federal level.

we are committed to making sure that those policies do get implement in New York State.

And while the goals may change, our values do not.

And so our values stand for making sure that we are reducing our carbon footprint in New York, that we are leaving New York a better place for our next generation, because we know we can't wait.

We're already behind the ball and we have to catch up, and we're committed to making sure we do that.

And one of the ways I think you're committed to making sure that we're doing that is you've introduced a bill that could delay the advanced clean Trucks rule.

So can you walk us through what that means and the reasoning behind that?

Yes.

So while we want to move towards full electrification of vehicles, and by the way, this is where the rest of the world is going in the same direction.

New York is not isolated from what's happening from a technology standpoint and from a lower carbon emission standpoint.

mileage isolation focuses specifically on the trucking industry, recognizing that these big trucks, are big polluters.

But we want to move towards some of the newer truck technology that is electric vehicles.

However, to be able to do that, we have to have the infrastructure in place.

When I say infrastructure, I mean charging infrastructure.

And unfortunately, from a readiness standpoint, New York does not have one piece of public EV charging infrastructure for these commercial trucks in place at all.

So it's one thing to have a goal, but it's another thing to be able to practically implement and achieve that goal.

And so my legislation recognizes that we have to do more when it comes to building out that public charging infrastructure for trucks.

And we're hoping that with a slight delay, we can put the money where our mouth is and make sure that we are building this infrastructure and that allow these trucks to become electrified and, you know, bring goods and goods across New York State.

You know, it's one thing for us to say, we want, goods to be delivered by a manufacturer to Rochester or let's say, even further up north from Watertown.

But if we can't get from New York City to Watertown without a charge, well, then how did the goods get to the destination?

Right.

And we know that 90% of our commerce in New York state is due to trucking.

So we don't want to disrupt our economic infrastructure here by our lack of readiness with our charging infrastructure.

So that's what the legislation addresses.

Well, what is the balance between climate urgency and economic reality?

Well, I think the reality is that the technology does exist.

And so what we've seen in other states and other parts of the world is that they are making those municipal infrastructure investments, meaning that state governments or local governments are building out charging infrastructure, changing the culture when it comes to electric vehicles.

and so people feel more confident, consumers feel more confident, whether they're driving a personal automobile or whether they are a company with an electric fleet of trucks that they can get from point A to point B safely and responsibly and not have to worry about access to charging.

So that's really what we're focused on, is to really motivate and push the state of New York to ensure that this infrastructure is put into place.

I think also the key is we're not, falling behind what we're seeing happen in other states.

we don't want to just say, hey, we're not ready for this, so we'll deal with this in a few later.

Two years later.

You know, kicking the can down the road, that's that's not responsible.

We have to acknowledge that we have goals for a reason, and they are aggressive goals.

And we should be doing everything possible to meet those goals.

So we don't want to just say we'll talk about this later.

We want to say what can we be doing now to be ready and prepared to make this clean energy transition?

Well, and on the subject of what we can be doing now, are we truly investing enough in charging stations, particularly outside of New York City?

No.

The answer is no.

We don't have enough charging stations.

We don't have enough signage.

We don't have enough, recognition that this is something that can't just be done on the New York State Thruway, but it has to be done in municipalities as well.

again, we know that the technology exists from a battery storage standpoint so that vehicles, whether they are trucks or personal automobiles, can get from point A to point B on fully electric charging.

Right.

The range that these vehicles can go because of technology improvements and battery improvements has increased, but we still have to have that charging infrastructure in place.

So one of the things I'm most disappointed by is that we did all this money on the Thruway rest stops, right?

We heard about this over the last couple of years, right?

All these new Thruway rest stops, but there's still only a few chargers.

And by the way, there are only Tesla chargers, right?

So do we really meet the moment when it came to putting in the charging infrastructure?

When we were doing a major construction process?

I would say we did not.

And so let's not do that again.

Let's learn from that.

And let's really put the money where our mouth is in terms of making funds, grants available so that local communities like Rochester or Monroe County have the resources to build out this charging infrastructure.

It should not be just for some people.

Everyone should have access to vehicle charging stations of some sort, whether it's for the personal on mobile or, again, trucking or school busses, which is another hot topic as well.

Well, I'm glad you brought that up because you have been very vocal in support of tax credits for EV buyers.

Can you clarify how your proposed state incentives would work, especially for used cars and low income buyers?

So what we have heard from the Trump administration in Washington is that they seek to, stop, the $7,500 EV tax credit that was, passed by Congress through the Inflation Reduction Act.

this is a credit when you if you're looking to purchase an electric vehicle, you go into your dealer, you find a vehicle that you like, it's fully electric.

You are then eligible for, $7,500 tax credit if it's a new vehicle, if it's a used vehicle, it's a $4,000, tax credit.

Again, this is just for EVs.

That credit at the federal level is going away.

the, agency that administers that credit, which is the EPA, is it's already signaled that the Trump administration has already signaled this.

And so what I would like to do is to, pass legislation at the state level to say New York State will still honor that tax credit of $7,500 for new EVs or for thousand dollars for used vehicles, because we know that the number of sales of TVs in New York and in the United States, by the way, is actually going down.

Going down.

We're going the wrong direction.

Why is that?

Well, affordability, but also what they call range anxiety.

People don't believe that they can get there to their destinations on an electric charge versus a, what we call an Ice vehicle, internal combustion engine.

Yeah.

Gas powered, vehicle.

So, you know, at a time when we should be finding more ways to incentivize people to make that transition to a fully electric vehicle, which are very nice vehicles, by the way.

then we need to put our money where your mouth is again.

And if the federal government is going to cut, New York's going to invest.

So my legislation basically mirrors the federal tax credit for EV sales on the state level.

And I'm hoping we can get that done next year.

Well, and I'll say I drive an electric car, an EV6, not a Tesla.

And I recently had to drive to New York City and back in the same day, by the way, and I, you know, it was possible, but it was it required a lot of creativity and a lot of stopping, very random places.

So I, I'm I'm definitely I mentioned I'm passionate about this.

I have personal reasons for it, too.

I'm curious because you sort of touched on this a few minutes ago.

The federal government's navy Navy program is funneling money into fast chargers along major corridors.

But what about those places in between, like, smaller towns and rural communities or even cities in Rochester, which last I checked and it wasn't there wasn't in the last month.

But last I checked, there were no fast chargers, just slower ones that would be unrealistic for someone just driving through town.

Yeah, this is something that's going to not just be the responsibility of our federal partners, but really requires state governments to step up.

again, we are part of a coalition.

And the governor, Governor Hochul, to her credit, has made New York State a member of a coalition.

cleaning car standards.

and recognizing that, again, this is not an option.

This is not a, something nice to do.

This is a necessity to do to make sure that we are meeting our climate goals.

but we need to make these investments in communities of all sizes.

when I think about the New York State, I want to make sure that where the vehicles are being most driven, which is, by the way, outside of New York City, right, because we don't have a robust public transportation system like New York City that has subways and busses and, and, and a big taxi program, etc..

Right.

So community like Rochester, where we have RTA and we're fortunate to have RTA, but still people still use personal automobiles.

So we have to make sure that the charging infrastructure is in place, and I agree.

Fast charging is the way to go.

Because again, if you're going to change the culture of driving, where we're moving to electric vehicles, where we're reducing our reliance on fossil fuels and gasoline, and by the way, saving consumers that money, right.

We want to make sure that they have access from an equity perspective to, fast charging infrastructure.

And by the way, I don't necessarily saying the taxpayers have to pay for for free charging here, right.

It's building the infrastructure so that there could be charging paved pay charging opportunities available.

right now we're reliant on employer based or parking garage based infrastructure.

That's okay.

That's a good first step.

But again, if you really want to change that culture and get to more electrification of vehicles, this has to be widespread.

Just like when you drive down a street in our suburb or on Main Street, you see multiple gas stations.

It should be the same way when you drive down a street.

There are multiple opportunities for multiple speeds of charging, right?

That's just the way we're going to move our economy into a greener economy.

Do you think this program is at risk in the Trump administration?

I absolutely do.

I mean, let's be very clear about this.

This is a president who does not agree with the electrification of vehicles.

And despite the science, despite the studies, despite the fact that, again, other parts of our world are moving in this direction.

He has doubled down and said that we are going to stick with gas powered cars and take away grant opportunities, funding opportunities, research opportunities, infrastructure opportunities from red states and blue states alike.

It's just it's ridiculous.

I mean, let me give you an example.

China saw a 32% increase in EV sales, in in this past year.

Europe as a, as a continent saw a 35% increase in EV sales.

North America decreased auto.

sorry, EV auto sales by 5%.

Wow.

I mean, where are we?

I mean, we are not aligned with where the rest of the world is going.

and again, I understand the consumer hesitancy behind this technology without the infrastructure.

So really, as the chair of transportation, for the state Senate, you know, my role is to make sure that the resources that dollars are there and our budget so that private developers and municipal government, local governments have the resources and access to build out this infrastructure so that we as consumers, as New Yorkers, we get access to it.

Right?

And that's how we stay competitive with other states like North Carolina and Virginia and Texas and California and Florida that are doing this type of infrastructure investment.

I want to go back to trucks for a second, because you mentioned you were talking about it before, and I know that trucking companies have raised some real concerns.

Battery weight.

Charging access.

Cost.

What is the path forward that keeps them in the fold without derailing the climate agenda?

So it's a give and take.

you know, a lot of those concerns are absolutely valid.

Yes, that does make trucks heavier.

And that has an impact, by the way, on our surface pavement on our roads.

Right.

so they're worried about that.

And that's a fair consideration.

they also are correct in that sense that there isn't any public infrastructure of, charging infrastructure available.

So they're worried about the practical nature of this.

Well, but that has to get balanced against the goals.

Right.

They know and they agree that this type of technology is where we're headed.

This is an efficiency standpoint.

This is a climate justice standpoint.

I don't want to see any community, whether they're upstate, like us in Rochester or, a borough in New York City, like Staten Island.

I don't want to see either of those communities have to continue to see their air quality decrease, to have children inhale toxins, because we can't figure out how to get these trucks off the road.

Right.

Again, look what's happening right now in Rochester with our Amazon deliveries.

Right.

Whenever you how do you feel about Amazon?

Right.

I know there's a big corporation I get it.

But however you feel about Amazon.

They have chosen to invest in all electric van delivery services.

Rivian right.

You see those light gray vans going around Rochester streets, right?

Fully electric charged.

Right.

That's a commitment that Amazon has made in their climate.

program.

Right.

That aligns with what New York is trying to do with overall trucking policy.

And so you and I are driving along the Thruway or driving, for 93, 90, we should see less of these big gas guzzling trucks spitting out that black smoke into the air.

And we should have cleaner vehicles instead.

Which, by the way, that technology exists for that.

So it's just about building the infrastructure so that they can utilize that technology.

So for me, this is an economic issue.

It's an environmental issue, but it's also a public health issue for our children and our families who live in communities that need access to electric vehicles.

I couldn't agree more.

I you know, my wife is an asthmatic and we have made a lot of changes in our personal day to day in our lives.

We moved from New York City to Los Angeles to Rochester because of climate.

That's what landed us here.

And it is just so devastating to see the amount of air pollution that exists, especially given the high propensity towards, you know, people with asthma these days.

it is a public health issue.

It's a justice issue.

But I want to just I have just a few more questions for you.

I want to stick with the subject of weight really quickly, because incentives for EVs don't differentiate between more efficient, lighter EVs and heavy trucks.

So since heavier vehicles may need charging more often, wouldn't the incentivizing lighter EVs help the transition?

Yeah, I mean, I've heard that argument as well, and we certainly can take a look at that.

you know, I think a lot of it is where's the technology available?

And the cost of the technology upgrades?

We just want people to start this transition.

For me, it's not about what is the most perfect outcome in terms of what type of vehicle they're using.

It's the fact that they've converted from an internal combustion combustion engine to an electric vehicle.

and there's different by the way, technology is being developed, that we can put into our roadways that senses different weights.

and so for trucks who are driving along a, interstate, for example, they could instead of having to pull off and be weighed, you know, they can automatically sense the weight of the vehicle.

And maybe there are some incentives, as you said, that could be given, which way to get financially motivate these large companies to think differently?

Well, we know that trucking isn't going away and we don't want it to go away.

I like the good thing jobs, a lot of these are done by, you know, very good drivers, members of the Teamsters union, for example.

Yeah.

That's fine.

Let's continue that.

We want to make sure that goods can get from one point of our state to the other.

But let's utilize the best form of technology to be able to do that.

Last question for you.

If we don't make the 2035 mandate, what does that mean for New York's climate goals?

Well, again, these are goals.

And we have a serious commitment to achieving those goals.

Goals are also a statement of values.

And those of us who are elected to state office are absolutely, you know, committed to adhering to those values.

Right.

These are our communities.

These are our children.

These are our friends who are going to be impacted if we don't take action now to reduce our carbon footprint.

Now, there are things that we could do to be reasonable against those goals.

So we here often times, well, we'd like to be able to have electric school busses, but we're not so sure we can get the power if we want to build a charging station, or we're not so sure that there is an electric school bus manufacturer that can deliver the bus by the deadline right?

So we've put in place in this year's state budget a two year delay waiver, right, so that they can apply school districts who are trying to to meet this goal could apply to the state education department for a two year delay.

Again, we're not about punishing people.

We're just about being intentional about hitting these climate goals.

If we're not doing anything and just sitting on our hands, and we are doing a disservice to every New Yorker.

And so for those of us who believe in science, who believe in the health, public health benefit, who want to who who recognize that, by the way, there's a public health disparity, especially in communities of color and low income communities.

So I represent the city of Rochester, like 50% of our kids live below the federal poverty line.

We are majority black and brown city.

So you better believe there's a health disparity already in place in the district that I represent.

So I have a responsibility as an elected representatives to make sure that I am doing everything I can from an environmental policy standpoint, to reduce the health impacts that has on the community I represent.

So this is a moral call for us to act, and we need leaders who not only hear that call, but are committed to passing the public policy and to devoting the resources to get it done.

State Senator Jeremy Cooney, thank you so much for shedding light on this very important topic.

And thank you for all you're doing.

I can't tell you how much we appreciate it.

Thank you.

Glad to be with you.

And that was state Senator Jeremy Cooney.

We're going to take a very short break.

But when we come back, we'll be joined live by Brian Sharp, investigative editor at WXXI, and Eric Hiddink, the energy economist and EV expert from RIT.

Stay with us.

I'm Jasmine Singer.

Coming up in our second hour of environmental connections, we'll explore how fungi are playing a surprisingly powerful role in climate solutions.

From mushroom based meat alternatives to mycelium that replaces plastic.

And we'll look at what happens if climate change and human activity threaten fungi before we've even discovered most of them.

Catch it all on the second hour of environmental connections.

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If you're just tuning in, I'm Jasmine Singer and this is Environmental Connections.

Today we're asking why aren't more people driving EVs.

So before the break, you heard from State Senator Jeremy Cooney, chair of the Senate Transportation Committee.

In just a moment, we will be joined live by Brian Sharp, investigative editor at Z.

And Eric Kittinger.

And who I won't get to pronounce his name correctly.

For me, the energy economist and EV expert from RIT.

But first, we're heading out into the community.

The WXXI team stopped by the City of Rochester's EV charging station at Cobbs Hill, where they spoke with some local electric vehicle owners.

And when it comes to EV know how these folks are, you could say plugged in.

I convinced my 77 year old parents to get an electric car.

They got a Chevy Volt.

They got it at a killer price.

And they love it.

My name is Eric Johnson.

I'm an early adopter.

I've been driving an electric car for about nine years.

We are in a house yet, and so we have access to charging at home, which I think that's the thing that a lot of people don't know about EVs is you actually have way more options for charging your EV.

You don't have to drive to a designated specialized gas station.

You can just plug in like a toaster.

We're talking a 110 outlet.

Just like plugging in a lamp.

It's really convenient.

Remarkably convenient, but it does take a long time.

So your car is going to charge pretty slow, 3 to 5 miles in an hour.

So that's a really trickle charge.

That's what we call it.

But you could put easy 4050 miles in your car overnight.

And most days you're only going to drive that much.

So look at that.

You don't ever have to go to a gas station again.

But for longer trips, you would need to do a level two charger like these guys.

We are getting somewhere between like 25 and 30 miles in an hour.

Or if you're doing a longer drive.

you really need a fast charger.

And honestly, Tesla really has the best network.

We've taken our electric cars down to Florida 2030 times to visit parents.

Never once had an issue finding charging.

And most of the cars coming out 20, 25 and later all have the Tesla charging plug as the standard.

So that means just about everybody can charge on Tesla's charging network.

So you get the benefit if you want a different car.

We're going to leave this here for a few hours.

We're going to go get lunch together.

Do a little bit of work.

So yeah, this will just be kind of sitting here for a few hours so she can get a little more juice to head home.

I'm Matt Reiner, and I bought my EV for, about a year ago.

Overall, finding a charger is not a problem.

It's more about do I need level two?

I can sit and chill.

Or am I looking for that level three experience?

So that's your fast charging.

That will do the majority of your battery in 30 minutes.

The city center does not offer that.

I have to drive out of Rochester to find that.

Those are the things that you want to put near an economic center, like food and shopping, where people traveling through or people who are like, I want to go to the Museum of Play, but only for a few hours.

We need those types of chargers in the city.

And currently you have to go down to Henrietta to a dealership or the main chargers are in Victor.

so that is that's a problem the city needs to fix even at a place like this.

This would be epic, right?

Food, a park.

But instead, this is meant for kind of lingering.

If I went in there and worked for half a day, I could get a good amount of miles.

But, otherwise, you know, getting a lunch and plugging in here is not going to be super valuable to me.

And joining me now live, alas, finally, is Brian Sharp, the investigative editor at Sky, who regularly reports on the state of EV infrastructure in our region.

And also with us is Eric Hit anger.

Eric, how do you pronounce your name?

So, officially, it's a hitting layer, but I'll tell you, you know, in France it's 18 G. And, it depends on where I am.

So I'm pretty flexible about it.

Okay, well, I'm going to not do the French one because you don't want to hear that.

But Eric hitting her.

Eric hitting her.

There we go.

Energy economist and EV expert from.

Right.

You're joining us all the way from France.

Thank you both again for being here.

Brian, I want to start with you in your recent reporting.

What did you find about how prepared or unprepared we are for an EV surge here in the Rochester area?

Well, I think it's it's multi-faceted.

It's both the interest, in people to buy them.

It's, you know, a lot of the things, that our guests already have talked about or the people we've interviewed the the, charging anxiety.

right now, I spoke with, some folks here a couple months ago, and they put, the penetration rate for EVs across the state at, 9 to 10%.

Take out Tesla's.

It's down to 7% for all other manufacturers.

And remember we're trying to get to a goal here with the 2026 model year of 35%.

Wow.

so so that's a challenge.

and and coming with that those and I think the reason folks are wanting that target paused, is that there are financial old, penalties to be direct.

I would probably call them something else.

if you don't for manufacturers, if you don't reach that, so you either pay that, which, you know, we've all got a lesson on additional fees attached in that.

Get that eventually gets to the consumer or you bring in fewer cars.

and we saw how that played out.

You know, post-pandemic went the supply chain.

So I think there's that.

And then there's, you know, just the capacity of the grid.

back I did a deeper dive on this a couple of years ago.

And, if folks head out to the Pittsford Wegmans, they'll see chargers there.

Two of them, if I remember correctly.

And that was all they could put in, because that was all the capacity allowed.

so if you're talking about and then you look at a map across the city and, the areas that go red are our neighborhoods are, areas of, frankly, you know, lower income areas.

so if you're going to talk about reaching everybody, you've got to put those in as the one driver saying in the Center City, you know, like downtown.

but you also have to put them, where people live.

Yeah.

You're talking about the equity piece and who's being left out of this transition.

And I think that's a very important topic.

Senator Cooney talked about that a little bit.

What are you hearing, Brian, from folks who are selling EVs and their ability to meet this mandate?

And I think I kind of jumped ahead that that's that's a little bit with the, you know, just looking at that and, and what they're going to have to face.

because I think what you saw with the initial surge was the early adopters.

My father in law was one, jumped in right away.

and and now you got the folks who are like, okay, wait and see.

We're one of those, we bought a hybrid, Toyota Rav4 Prime if I'm getting everything right.

because it allows us to plug into the wall overnight.

Slow charge gets, you know, 30, 40 miles a day.

That'll get you to and from work.

The grocery store, most of your basic errands.

and then, you know, you go on the road, we take a family road trip somewhere.

the gas kicks in after that, and you're good to go.

And you don't have to be checking as you were the, you know, where's the nearest charging station?

I've heard from folks who.

Yeah, they.

Oh, I need to charge.

And then I go, and this one's, you know, this one's under maintenance.

Well, and I will also say, as you know, a woman who's frequently driving by myself, a lot of the Chargers are, like, in creepy back areas of parking lots with no lights.

And, and, my wife would also complain.

No squeegees like you get at gas stations.

These are very small concerns in the grand scheme of things.

But you mentioned climate anxiety, and that is, charging anxiety one in the same potentially arguably what is happening locally with public charging and local governments ability to address this charging anxiety.

You're talking about a lot of the problems.

What kinds of solutions are being put in place?

Well, you saw it, and I've been checking back because there was an announcement of, folks who are going to bring in, I believe it was fast chargers.

They were announced, last fall.

And I was very curious about that because their thing was we're going to put two downtown.

We're going to put two out in the neighborhoods at, rec center or things of that nature.

And I was just I wanted to talk to them more.

So about what they faced in trying to site those, and trying to find that capacity, they haven't put them in yet.

so it's still looking and, and I don't know if that's a regulatory thing.

It's a whole thing.

They can't talk about it until the state, I think, gets to have a press conference or something.

but it hasn't happened.

it's it's held up for some reason or another.

I don't know if it's capacity, if it's just pushing papers and getting approvals and things of that nature.

but we have, you know, to the one person who was out at Covid Hill, we have the slower chargers.

but yeah, the fast chargers is is a challenge.

And I think that's where, you know, local governments are looking for assistance.

what we're seeing at the federal level, isn't, isn't very promising, for that to move quickly.

so, I guess, you know, if the state can step up, as, Senator Cooney was suggesting, then maybe we'll see that that go.

But, you know, the I pulled just before I came down here, numbers on, how many EVs we even have in Monroe County.

and, of course, I will not be able to find.

I'm fascinated by that.

Why don't you look for it while I go to Eric?

Eric, I want to bring you in now.

Eric Hettinger, you have studied EV adoption nationally and globally.

And this will this will go with, Brian's facts that he's about to throw at us.

How does New York stack up?

so New York is one of the states that has higher EV adoption, than the average and is is growing relatively quickly.

and a lot of that is pushed through some of the policy proposals that New York has already, put in place support for EVs as support for EV chargers.

although we do have the challenge and this was discussed earlier.

California in the US is, of course, the leader, but, they don't face the same kind of weather challenges that we do, especially in the upstate portion, of New York, that in California, the weather is more or less, you know, always, not always nicer not to too far from nice weather.

And so when we, face that colder weather is, you know, is an easy driver.

It does mean that you range is more limited.

So, so I'd say that New York is the leading state, as far as states that experience colder winters.

that's fascinating.

And you're absolutely right.

I think we're up with our Kia EV6.

We're up to like 240 miles now, but it's well below to, well below 200 when it's cold out.

And and, Brian, you mentioned your sort of hybrid solution for your road trips.

It makes me think of that's actually another, another, argument for getting used to EVs, because even if there is a much smaller capacity for miles, it would be enough to take you at least around town, for your grocery shopping and your errands.

And I suppose this would be more of a solution for cars with two family, two car households.

so did you find, by the way, the numbers?

Yeah.

So back just as some reference in the, 2022, there were 5600 EVs on the road in rural county, split between battery powered and plug in hybrid.

there's now 6900.

So it is going up.

Not at the pace I look just to see like, well, you know, you can go on.

The state has some incredible, open data sources that you can sift and sort and just go down the rabbit holes.

but, 2023 and newer EVs sold are registered in Monroe County, 2659 2023 and newer.

So that shows you there there's still uptake of these, vehicles.

so but I don't think it's the you know what, quite what we expected.

And just to the point of statewide, this was a couple years ago, but it probably still holds because we haven't seen a rapid rollout.

More than a million public and shared charging spots would be needed by 2030 to meet our goals.

I know that a lot of you are calling in and leaving YouTube comments.

Thank you for those of you who are doing it and emailing in, we're going to be able to get to a fair amount of you in a few minutes.

So hang in there.

If you're listening to this and you want to be part of the conversation.

we don't have a whole lot of time left.

Clearly, this calls for another hour or sometimes soon, but you can reach us at connections at cyborg.

Or you can call 844295 talk.

That's (844) 295-8255.

The local number is (585) 263-9994.

Eric, what are the biggest myths about EVs that you wish people would let go of?

You have.

Well, you know, one of them is related to the theme of this, this, conversation, which is that, you know, you see these articles about our EV growth is less than expected and it's not quite meeting goals, but, if growth continues to increase year over year.

Every year we sell more EVs than the last year.

we're not quite on course to hit the really ambitious goals set by New York State set by the Biden administration.

But failure to meet ambitious goals doesn't mean that, we're failing.

In terms of the EV transitions.

Over the past five years, there's been about 8% year over year growth on average in in EVs.

And every year we sign revised in the prior year, 8% growth is an amount that just about any other industry would be envious of.

so 8% growth is not what we are what we want to to do this quick transition.

But 8% growth does still represent people buying more EVs each year.

and we're at the point now where actually internal combustion engine vehicle sales are now declining in the US.

which, you know, is another form, of, of victory.

but as far as other things about EVs that I think are important to know, you know, the the field interview person mentioned this, that, you can charge EVs at home.

And for a lot of people charging EVs relatively slowly at home will be their main, way of charging.

The only exception are people that live, you know, in apartments or rental units where they don't have access to a garage or another place at their home, to, to hook up an easy connection.

Although this is, another spot where some of the, the sort of environmental justice elements can come into play, such as subsidizing chargers at apartment buildings so that people who don't have a home with a standalone garage, have access to the Chargers.

And, you know, as far as chargers out in the wild, you know, I think the main reason that you would want a fast charger, is when you're traveling those really long distances.

So for most people, you need just slow charging tends to do fine around the local neighborhoods.

So I also have, a plug in hybrid electric vehicle, and I still actually use a level one charger.

I just plug it into a wall socket.

I don't even have a a garage, electric charger and that and that works fine for all of our needs and with our car, because it can use gasoline when we drive long distances.

We do, just use gasoline for that.

however, most of the miles driven with our car, is driven on electricity.

So even though we have a small battery, the range is small.

It's perfect for everything we need to do around Rochester on a given day.

and only the long trips actually use gasoline.

if you have a pure electric vehicle like you do, then, the only real time you're researching for that fast charging, technology, which tends to be more expensive, is on those long trips, you know, much.

I stayed in New York and back.

and you can do most of your charging at home with a slower charger.

Actually, we we drove to Kansas and back in our electric car.

we're masochists.

What can I say?

But I will say that, we went car camping, and we plugged in because it was the car camping with electricity.

So we plugged in the car when we did that.

And that was really kind of useful.

one other thing.

You mentioned apartments.

I had an apartment when I was living in California.

This is before I had a car, and I was considering getting an electric one, and there was no charger there at the apartment building.

So I mentioned something to my landlord, and he said, you know what?

I've been wanting to put one in, so that would be a good excuse.

And the reason I bring that up is because sometimes you just need to ask.

Sometimes it's just about kind of planting that seed.

I'm seeing you nodding, Brian.

I the, there's an apartment complex near us that we've seen the charging stations going in there.

and I know just, in times of covering, you know, business and development, the area you will see people, I think, or developers as a way of maybe helping move their proposal along, that they want to do something that they think is going to face some hurdles now, like, and we're going to throw in some charging stations in there to sort of sweeten the deal and get them through.

So there is sort of that that is starting to roll out and, you know, and to, Eric's point about the, you know, our plug in hybrid, I think there's anxiety, too, about and it was for me of sort of, well, I need all this special equipment.

I need some special thing installed.

I need to figure out how to reroute.

We got a whatever the proper term is.

High capacity extension cord that runs to.

And our neighbors have the same thing.

So, you know, it can sit in the garage or it will have it sitting out on the driveway with an extension cord run into the level one charger and, you know, and charging the vehicle.

Neighbor doesn't have a garage.

They they just run it out there and plug it in.

Just don't trip on the wire.

yeah.

I think that like one thing that unifies environmental connections episodes is that it?

A lot comes down to just having your voice heard and that makes me feel emboldened.

Personally, I want to go to one of our callers.

Thanks for hanging on the line, Alex.

Welcome to Environmental Connections.

What's your question?

Thank you.

Just, I guess a two part comment.

I am, an electric vehicle adopter driver, I guess, against, were some initial concerns, but I couldn't beat the price point after, my car, sadly, crossed the Rainbow Bridge.

They.

And what I've found is that, you know, it covers my use case.

It is perfectly fine to drive.

I drive for work.

I'm a corporate trainer.

I have to go up and down the thruway regularly, and it works great.

I have no concerns with that.

what I am concerned with is just a lack of a unified planning process from, I guess the executive.

I mean, Senator Cooney, reference that, you know, there are plenty of people in the legislature who want to see, these things succeed.

You know, concerns over electric bussing roll out in rural districts.

That made a lot of headlines this past week with elections.

but what I think gets lost is the energy independence that can easily come from adopting green energy, like just developing wind farms or solar farms and putting them right in your own backyard, setting up the infrastructure right there.

You don't have to worry about importing any electricity.

You don't have to worry about setting up pipelines, which the governor has now apparently, had a heel turn and said, yes, let's start building some gas pipelines, because that makes sense.

yeah.

No, I hear you especially about the lack of unification.

I don't mean to cut you off, but I know we have some other callers as well who have been so patient, but Brian, can you quickly address Alex's comments?

No, I was just nodding when you talked about that sort of lack of a cohesive or or shared strategy.

It seems very, right now, very ad hoc, disjointed, which I think adds to that anxiety.

Yeah, 100%.

Francis in Webster.

You've been so patient.

Thank you for sticking on the line.

Welcome to Environmental Connections.

What is your question?

Thank you.

two items.

first, I saw on Facebook, and I know it hasn't been fact checked, but, the current administration that is planning and removing over 8000 already installed charging stations across the country.

the second thing is, at our parking lot at, the Webster in the municipal parking lot, there's a two car charger unit that's been there for a couple of years.

And it's been there longer than that, but it's been out of service for at least two years, and that's frustrating.

Yeah.

And and I stepped into the office and they said the outfit's in California and they want $15,000 to fly a technician out here to service it.

Okay.

Eric.

Eric, I just want to throw that one to you.

Do you have any thoughts on that or perhaps you have a bit more information?

I'm completely putting you on the spot with this, but what do you think?

Oh, no.

No, I think the charging infrastructure has some challenges today.

And you, you know, except for those that drive a Tesla, which is a pretty reliable network, EV owners know that those chargers are hard to find their work on many different systems.

They're a hassle.

They're often broken.

I do think this is both something that policymakers are paying attention to.

But also, this is going to change naturally over time as we get more people adopting EVs.

Up until now, most of those EV chargers exist, in order to get subsidies.

So the motivation to put them in is to absorb subsidies.

they're not selling that much electricity to EV drivers.

That's not where they make their money.

and so you can imagine that that means reliability is not of the utmost priority.

As we see more, even drivers and more people, adopting EVs, we're going to see those in chargers actually making money from selling you electricity for your car, which means they will need to keep the reliability up.

It means that they will need to make it easy to use, and they will want to actually attract, customers.

So we've seen this with other emerging technologies like wind and solar, where the early technology was not reliable because it was basically just, focused on getting subsidies, but it's transition to actually making money from its core competency.

And then some of the other infrastructure, like the technicians, as well as the installations, the reliability of the technology, the cost of the technology will also come down the scale, as, as we move towards more EVs, we this time went way too fast.

You guys, I apologize to folks we did not have time to get to, but thank you so much to State Senator Jeremy Cooney, as well as Brian Sharp and Eric hitting her, who joined me today for helping us navigate this complex road to electric vehicle adoption in New York and to those of you tuning in, thanks so much for making today's environmental connections.

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