>> From WXXI News.

This is Connections.

I'm Evan Dawson.

Our connection this hour was made on an empty lot in rural South Carolina.

A mother in Berkeley County, South Carolina saw an aerial image of a now empty lot, and she shared it online.

But she added something.

She added a rendering of what a new childcare center could look like.

Her post went viral, with rural families flooding the comments, sharing their struggles and finding any care at all.

It is getting worse in this country and there is plenty of data to tell that story, the chief executive of the organization, Save the Children, says the rural childcare situation is now a crisis and forms part of a vicious cycle of poverty in rural American counties.

Save the children reports that the lack of childcare in rural communities is inextricably linked to the economic situation in those areas, or about 25% of the American population lives.

A lack of jobs and investment, as well as isolation, has contributed to widespread poverty, according to a report from the Children's Agenda.

Seven rural counties in western New York can be characterized as childcare deserts, where there are more than three children under the age of five for every licensed child care slot available for kids in that age group.

So what can be done?

Our guests are here to talk about that.

The author of the report we're talking about is Pete Nabozny, director of policy for the Children's Agenda.

Pete, welcome back to the program.

>> Thanks for having me.

>> Rachel Bonsignore is with us, executive director of Liftoff Western New York.

Nice to see you.

>> Nice to see you, Evan.

>> And tell folks, Rachel what Liftoff Western New York is.

>> liftoff is a network of funders, philanthropic and cross-sectoral leaders, all uniting around a common vision for young children.

So they have the best possible start for the best possible future.

>> And let me welcome remotely joining us Kathleen Valley is executive board member for Praisings Kids Child Care Center in Medina.

Kathy, welcome.

Thanks for being with us.

>> Thank you for allowing me to speak for children.

>> You got it.

And Taryn Moyle is with us, a child care resource center program manager for Community Action of Orleans and Genesee, Inc.. Welcome.

Thanks for being with us.

>> Thank you for having me.

I appreciate this opportunity.

>> And, Taryn, make sure I'm pronouncing your last name right.

Did I get it right?

>> It's Taryn Moyle.

>> Yes.

Moil okay.

so it's great to have you and we're going to talk to a parent in our second half hour.

I already have some email that we're going to share from parents.

And this is a great chance to talk really at length about not just childcare, but childcare in a part of the state or the country that often feels ignored.

So Pete Nabozny, why write this report?

What sparked the interest in writing this particular report here?

>> Well, if you remember, I was on this show maybe a month or so ago, and we talked a lot about the governor's really exciting proposal around child care, pre-K expansions, and child care was one of the biggest issues in the New York City mayoral campaign this past year.

And it's it's really emerged as a, you know, a top flight issue in in policymaking circles and at the national and the state level.

And what we wanted to do with this report was remind people that there are a lot of children who grow up in areas of the state outside of our major cities and counties and explore some of the, you know, we tried to identify strengths in how things have improved over the last couple of years, but but really also focus on some of the challenges that families, child care providers, employers and others face when trying to to serve the child care needs of of children in areas of the state that are less densely populated.

They may have cities and, and things like that, but are don't have anything at the scale of what we have here in Rochester to say nothing of, you know, some of our areas downstate.

>> There's a part of the report that pops right off the page with numbers.

And I have to admit, I look at this and I go, I don't really get it.

How did we get to this point?

So I'm just going to read from some of your summary structural issues with New York State's Child Care Assistance Program funding formula results in rural counties receiving less funding per eligible child than other parts of the state, leading to inequitable access to this critical support.

For example, Orleans County receives $373 from New York State per estimated eligible child, $373 Nassau County per eligible child, $2,915.

Yeah, that is quick math here.

Eight nine times as much.

Why?

>> Yeah, you have to go really deep into the history of the funding formula for these programs, which is a it's a block grant from New York State to various counties.

And that means that they get a set of money to spend in a year, and they have to kind of manage those funds and use it to enroll the number of families that they they think they can serve.

And the state set this program up, you know, three decades ago with a goal of like, we want counties to spend all their funds and we want them to maybe put some county dollars into the program.

And some communities did that.

Monroe County has done that over several decades.

Nassau County has really done it at a at a high level where they spend local dollars, and that allows them to draw down more state dollars in future years.

Whereas if you're a county that doesn't spend all your dollars, and sometimes it's because of the politics of that community, or the sort of distrust of whether or not they're going to get that same level of funding the next year, and they don't want to overcommit.

You know, we could talk about that in a lot of different ways.

But if you underspend, that means you get less money the next year, and it goes to one of those other counties.

And so it just over the course of a couple decades and really kind of supercharged over the last you know, six or so years with the pandemic you're and as we've had more investments from the state, your larger, more affluent counties with kind of, you know, better property tax bases and more resources have been able to just draw an increasing share of the pie.

And so, yeah, you have places like Nassau County, like Westchester County, to some extent, Monroe County getting more and more funding from this program and your rural counties.

like Orleans, like Allegheny County.

just really not being able to serve a fraction of the eligible children that some of these more affluent places can.

>> Yeah.

Kathleen and Taryn are going to talk about that in just a moment.

What that is like.

But, you know, Rachel, when I first looked at this issue before kind of digging into the report, I thought, well, okay, we're not going to have as many child care centers in rural areas because we don't have the population base, but it really comes down to a pretty simple idea like per kid, what's the opportunity?

And when there are three kids or more per slot, that is needed, that that is I mean, that is a fight for any kind of resources.

And then what happens to the people who don't get it?

So how do you tell this story?

How would you sum this up?

>> Yeah, I mean, I think when we we look at Western New York and those rural counties, we're talking 30,000 kids under the age of five.

Right.

And so that childcare desert and the ability for parents and caregivers to find that reliable, consistent childcare that is affordable and within reach of of their home or their employer, and it's so it's incredibly challenging.

And we know that so many of our providers want to provide the best that they can, but only have so much space to give.

And given some of the issues that were highlighted in the report about workforce sustainability, thriving wages, we know that some have had to close classrooms.

Right?

And so because they don't have the workforce to to support the center or their offerings.

And so that has just been kind of a cascading issue over time.

And the report shares some interesting opportunities to to kind of look more closely and fix that issue.

>> Well.

So let me get Kathleen and Taryn on this.

And over in Medina, that's Orleans County, that's Praisings Kids Child Care Center.

And Kathleen Valley is an executive board member.

How dire or serious is the situation where you are, what we've been just what we've been talking about here, Kathy.

>> Very serious.

the last few months, we've just made the dollars match the income and the outgo.

but we have tried over the last eight years to find a place that we did not have to rent, and we were okayed for mortgages.

But when we started trying to do all the New York state regulations in these buildings, it went way over what we could afford.

So we are in a situation.

We are under a lease which is now currently being changed because there are new owners.

So we have to work up a new lease and we're trying very hard to figure out how we could have more children.

to bring up that number that you were talking about.

But the regulations, again, we have to stick to the numbers of the children in the rooms.

And we just don't have the enough room to take more children.

And also the universal pre-K programs in the school districts have taken many of our students that were with us before.

I mean, it's free.

Parents better go there and they might as well.

But it leaves us with a very tight budget.

We have wonderful support for many people, starting with Terence and her group.

the Medina Area Association of Churches have helped us buy a new furnace because the landlord wouldn't.

there's just so many things every day that occur.

yesterday, a mother came running in in the morning because she had been called in to work.

and she didn't have anybody to watch them.

She was one of our students.

But because we had one student absent, that was the only way we could take her in.

we have to stick to the ratios.

So every day there seems to be something that challenges us in so many ways.

But our staff is wonderful.

>> Kathleen, let me go ahead and read an email that I got this morning from Jared in Yates County and describing some of what he is experiencing.

And I want to know if this rings true for you.

He says Evan, I'll tell you what happens for families like mine when there are no childcare options.

Sometimes you turn to grandparents, sometimes the grandparents are struggling with their own health, but there's no other option.

So they try to keep up with the toddler.

Sometimes you take a kid to work with you.

They might miss school because you don't have a way to make everything line up.

Sometimes you end up skipping work more than you can afford, so at least someone is home with kids.

And definitely kids are being left home alone.

Way too young, way too often.

But we don't get the attention of a New York City or even Rochester.

We have to figure things out on our own.

That's from Jared.

What do you make of that?

Kathleen?

>> Absolutely true.

Absolutely.

And and we've had families even that are in the military and they get a stipend to help pay for theirs.

But that's also been cut by many of the federal regulations now.

So it hits many families in many ways, and some of them don't have the transportation, which is another criteria to be called a desert place.

And each day there's something.

>> Yeah.

And we've got some charts and some data to share.

So if you're watching on the YouTube channel for WXXI News, you know, one of the big questions is on capacity.

And, you know, sort of the first major findings here of this report is demand for childcare.

We've been talking about this demand for child care spaces exceeds supply.

And all of these counties that are in the report are considered a child care desert for the reasons we've been talking about.

But again, more than three children under five per licensed child per licensed child care slot available.

So for every slot for a kid, there's more than three kids who need it under the age of five.

Did I say that right, Pete?

>> Yeah.

There's more than three kids under the age of five per available license.

>> Yeah, yeah.

And that's really, really tough.

But then another finding here I'm going to read from the report Labor data, stakeholder interviews and provider surveys all identify low child care, educator pay as a critical issue, limiting the availability of reliable and nurturing care.

Child care educators in Western New York are among the lowest paid workers in any field, with 97% of jobs, 97% of jobs in the region paying more than child care.

So I want to ask Kathleen if that is something that you see and if that's one of the effects that you're concerned about, definitely.

>> we've tried to keep up with the minimum wage increase every year.

We've been faithful to that and to to keep some of our best employees.

We have to stick to that and keep doing it each year.

We even have a director who is on a salary, and she has her bachelor's degree.

And you know, it's for a 40 hour job, but she's there from 60 to 80 hours a week.

She is totally dedicated, and she's such a great example for the rest of her staff that I hate to even say this, but at one point the our board had to help pay the payroll because it was like the the payroll of the month.

And you know, things like that come up and we are trying our best.

and as far as the rooms that we have to, we would love to have more infants and toddlers, but we can't have them on the second floor because of the exits problems.

So we've cut back on the school age kids and tried to take more of the younger ones.

I'm not really sure what the real solution is for us right now, but we are reaching out to a lot of places.

we met with Nyl * yesterday, who is the United Way.

It has a new name now, but they've supported us for years in a pinch.

But we're doing our best.

>> let me bring Taryn in.

Who's again?

Child care Resource Center program manager for Community Action of Orleans and Genesee, Inc.. Taryn, tell us about the work that you do.

Start with that.

Tell me about sort of week to week what your what your mission is.

>> Sure.

So we support all of the the New York State licensed child care providers in Orleans and Genesee County in professional development business supports really try to help them improve the quality that they're providing.

We're also promoting I'm sorry.

We're we're also helping to support the families in finding those child care programs.

and as you have shown the slots are just not there for those families.

Those programs are, you know, full.

They don't.

They have a waiting list a mile long.

so that's can sometimes be a little bit tricky.

and then we also support the local businesses in you know, helping their employees find those programs as best as we can and talking about what quality care looks like and really trying to help the families continue their employment and find those places while supporting people who are interested in opening up, perhaps a licensed program to start their own business.

>> Taryn, I think sometimes I'm guilty of reading reports or data and, you know, you see a number of slots available, number of kids who need them you know, different ratios comparing non rural versus rural counties.

And then you kind of just forget that for the kids who aren't getting this care like they still exist there somewhere.

And Jared's email reminds us like something has got to happen.

So can you describe some of what you see as the consequences for the kids who are not getting the care?

>> So those families that are relying on that unregulated child care programs you know, it's not all going to be this way, but you're going to, you know, you're taking away part of the socialization that these children are having, the networking that the families are having, the resources that these new Office of Children and Family Services programs can offer you know, the families as far as, you know, learning, professional development, all of those pieces these children are just not receiving that oftentimes, you know, they could be spending more time on a screen looking at a phone, not interacting.

so those those would be some of the consequences that will, you know, that we're going to start to see when they're in a licensed program, there are regulations to help make sure that those children are receiving educationally based milestones moving forward, giving them the best that they possibly can.

and not looking at a screen, not looking at a phone, but interacting with each other.

And, you know, learning those social those social life skills.

>> And you heard Kathy Teran say that she doesn't have all the answers in terms of what what's going to fix this right now?

It's complicated, but is there sort of a short wish list that you have that would start to address this more directly?

Taryn.

>> So I think the biggest thing is, you know, really supporting these providers that we have currently right now, as best as we can.

my program provides professional development for them at no cost to them.

We provide small grants to them to help them you know, to give them some some type of funding outside of their tuition and whatnot.

But, you know, the biggest thing would be, you know, let's let's get some more programs in here.

Let's really highlight what the quality work and the wonderful staff that some of these programs have and really hold them up to, you know, some of these other professionals.

as far as the pay is going these are our most vulnerable populations that these childcare programs are.

Pardon me, are, you know, are working with every single day the youth of our community.

you know, I mean, they are going to move our societies forward.

So we need to highlight that we need to find these spots.

We need to really help support these these families.

>> Let me ask Rachel and Pete a little bit about what could happen next here, because, Rachel, it's not like power brokers don't know about this problem.

But, you know, what do you want them to do?

What's what's one thing that needs to happen first?

First domino here to start fixing this?

>> Well, there's a few dominoes, but I think the living, thriving wage and making sure that we are giving every opportunity for every childcare provider, early care and learning educator and the system to make sure that it doesn't collapse and that that people are paid what they should, should be making.

and we know that you are, you know, as we said, with the report, 97th.

Right.

Not a good not a good statistic there.

60% of those who work in early early care and learning centers also are receiving public benefits, are having difficulty with food security, health care coverage and a whole host of things.

And so we really need to and to Taran's point, taking care of those who are currently in the field, making sure that we're retaining them, giving them a living, thriving wage.

And that's one of the the major recommendations that's also in the report for not only the state.

and it's championed by the Empire State Campaign for Child Care.

but really around this compensation conversation and policy and funding opportunity.

>> Again, I'm going to read that 97% of jobs in the region pay more than child care.

So you want to make a decent wage.

almost anything you can do is going to pay you more than child care.

That's that's right.

Right.

>> Yeah.

And you can't make much less.

I mean, legally, I mean, these are minimum wage jobs.

by and large, I think to take a step back for a moment, the, the, the paradox that I think a lot of people encounter is that when you talk to a parent who's paying out of pocket for child care, they are like, I cannot possibly afford this amount of the cost of care.

It's so expensive.

Hundreds of dollars a week, many thousands of dollars a year.

for care.

Many of these programs.

And then you talk to someone who's running a program and they say, I don't have enough money to pay my staff.

Like, I can't even make the minimum wage increase.

Like, what's going on here?

And it's it's it's fundamentally, fundamentally because care for young children is very expensive.

It has to be very intensive.

Kids need you know, a caretaker who is there for them, who is not caring for 20 other children.

They need low ratios.

infants and toddlers in particular need a lot of time with that caring and nurturing adult.

And you know, and so these ratios are in place because kids need that, that care.

But that is that's really expensive infant care.

one adult can care for four children, which is someone who's been a parent of infants.

That's a lot more kids than I could take.

I know, but, yeah, but that's what these these educators do.

And and so that just means that there's, there's fewer payers to support the salary of that, that caretaker, that educator and, and, and so that's why a lot of us are calling for kind of a fundamental restructuring of the system.

And as we're talking about transitioning to universal child care, we need to make sure that we're doing it with wages and rates and covering all children in a way that allows for families to get the care they need.

And for these educators to get paid what they deserve.

>> Rachel Bonsignore to Pete's point, it can be exhausting caring for one.

And I'm not, you know, sort of Pollyanna about the challenge of raising wages.

But I would want whoever is caring for my children to be paid well, to be respected, to feel like this is a job that I love and need.

And and I feel valued in, as opposed to this is another minimum wage job.

And, you know, I'm not trying to disparage workers at all.

I'm just saying I as a parent, I would want them paid.

Well, what do you think?

>> Yeah, same as a parent.

what's fascinating to me is that and it's so heartwarming is that the childcare providers have a deep passion and love for the work, and they go into the field because they love it, and that they know that they're making a lasting impact.

90% of brain development happens before kids get to school.

Their brain architects, these are professionals that are building the future for young people and changing generations to come.

So they're going into the field.

But the problem is, Evan, is that they're not staying in the field because they can't make ends meet.

And so that's why it's really important that we're focusing on these solutions to keep them in the field, and that we can also bring others that know that they can build a career.

Right.

They come in very early on with either an associate's or a credential, or work their way up to a bachelor's, and that they can stay and that there's career growth and opportunity because they love the work and they know how vital it is to the future of of young children in our communities.

>> Before we bring in a parent on the line, let me just ask Kathleen Valley a little bit more about this aspect of it.

She's an executive board member for Praisings Kids Child Care Center in Medina.

Kathy, how many kids do you serve at Praisings Kids?

>> currently?

full time children would be 30.

No, 48.

48.

And yes, okay.

>> How many staff members.

>> Right now we're we're at nine and and including an extra would be the director Kim.

Okay.

She's filling in all the time.

And out of those workers, you know, we have to hire 20 year olds.

And there's very few who apply who've had real mother experience.

And, you know, raise their own children.

Those women don't don't apply very often.

So trying to encourage the 20 year olds that they can really do this.

They do earn their cdas, which gives them a really good background in how to handle the kids in the situations.

I have to say, honestly, 100%, I go in there every week, at least 3 or 4 times, and no matter when I go in, what time of day, what classroom I'm here, there's no crying.

There's no children that are going off or doing whatever.

They work very diligently with the, the their lesson plans, the creative creativity.

We have a wonderful literacy program.

So keeping them there and keeping them focused is is a training itself.

We're not just teaching the children, we're teaching the adults.

And we're so happy because one of the girls has stayed with us for four years.

She's gone to Brockport.

She is now doing her student teaching.

So she's going to come back for the summer, but then we'll lose her as a real job of teaching.

>> Yeah.

And so, Kathy, for the people who say, well, look, just pay people more, you'll keep more of them, you'll attract more of them.

You could pay your staff more if.

What Kathy?

>> if right now we have enough support as far as people like Taryn and Head Start, they they've sent us a lot of students, and and they help with paying that.

But I think that it's the whole dessert part of it.

The parents don't have the jobs that are making in Nassau County.

You know, they're not making a huge amount of money either.

So finding more companies to come to Medina when Fisher Price was here for 25 years it was wonderful.

I mean, we didn't have nursery school at that time, but things were much better for the whole community.

So we have a business district downtown who who are so dedicated to to Medina and have worked so hard so new families are coming in, but I don't know if there's more home schooling going on, but, you know, we're we're just taking as many as we can.

>> Yeah.

Part of what Kathy's just talking about is what happens in a hollowed out economy.

and Pete, you're not alone nodding along there.

What do you want to add?

>> Yeah.

Just that the whole system is sort of structured around what parents can afford to pay.

And so the rates that provide, if we talked earlier about the child care assistance program, which is the the means by which we can help families of modest incomes afford child care.

And the rates for that program are set based on a survey of providers of what are they charging families.

And then they sort of determine it by part of the state.

And so, again, not to pick on Nassau County, but the rates that a provider receiving payment from the child Care Assistance Program in Nassau, Westchester, Suffolk County are just much higher than the rates providers receive in Orleans.

Chautauqua, Genesee, Allegany, Yates.

and so and that is as a result to your point of, of this, you know, hollowed out economy when you have parts of the state that have lost good jobs, then parents can afford to pay.

They can't afford to pay as much as they can elsewhere.

And then that gets kind of returned to them with the the payment rates that the state sets for providers in these communities, which then keeps wages low.

It prevents more people from entering this field.

And we get that vicious cycle.

And so there's just a lot of like not to get too structural with everything, but there are a lot of structural forces that are limiting the availability of care for, for families in these areas, which is then in turn limiting the economic prospects of those families and their ability to to make ends meet and to to build a future for themselves.

>> When we come back from our only break of the hour, we're going to welcome Lindsey Dailey, who is a parent, sharing her story.

And we're going to make sure that this report gets shared in our show notes.

If you want to pick it up and take a look as well.

So you can see the data that we're talking about, you can see the full picture of child care and the lack of child care, especially in rural counties in this state and in this region.

We'll come right back on Connections.

And facilities.

It's soaring.

Despite what the federal government says.

And finally, some music of peace and protest.

That's all.

Next, our.

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>> This is Connections.

I'm Evan Dawson Lindsey Dailey is a parent who is on the line with us now, and we're going to bring Lindsay in for a little parent perspective as well.

Lindsay, thanks for making time.

How are you?

>> Yes, of course.

Thank you so much for having me today.

I've been looking forward to the conversation.

>> All right.

So you're in a rural county in western New York, and you've got how many kids?

Lindsay?

>> I have two children.

>> How old?

>> Both.

So my oldest is eight and my youngest will be five next month.

>> So paint the picture first for your experience in child care.

And then we're going to talk about these various issues related to that.

But what has it been like for you?

>> So I would say there's three things that I think of.

I think of access.

I think of affordability.

and then I also think of knowledge having information.

And just like the navigation gap I would say so when, when we're thinking of access, I have found in personal experiences, but then also working with youth and families for the past 15 years sometimes it depends on who, you know or just simply, you know, getting lucky.

I think in my own experience, I've been fortunate at times to secure childcare through different Connections.

and we do have incredible programs in the community.

but they often operate with enrollment gaps.

Right.

And frequently have waiting, waiting lists.

So even if you're a family that does get in it's not always available five days a week, right?

So then it kind of forces parents to patch together multiple arrangements.

you know, for, for a consistent work schedule.

>> So let me start with that point.

What do you do when you've got childcare but not five days a week?

Childcare.

>> Right.

That then your piecemealing, you know, like can a family member or do you have flexibility within your schedule?

Are you able to work from home, you know, a day, a week or you know, it does become a challenge, right?

Or am I not going to take this, am I not am I going to have to change jobs, right, to have more flexibility or what is that going to look like?

>> Okay.

And now talk to me about affordability.

I mean, that seems to be the word that everyone in the country is talking about lately.

And you raised it yourself.

So what is affordability actually mean in this context to you?

>> So affordability, you know, again, is a major challenge.

childcare costs are high and many families are kind of forced to ask themselves, you know, am I just working to pay for daycare?

you know, and during my, my time working in schools as a social worker, I've heard this a lot of times with parents, you know, that my a lot of my paycheck has to go to childcare, you know and making those decisions are really hard, you know you want to remain in the workforce, but sometimes for families, it can be incredibly hard because the cost can be so high, especially if you have multiple children that require childcare, you know, like both of my girls weren't, you know, in childcare at the same time.

But if I, you know, I can't imagine, you know, having three, four kids that maybe have to be, you know, have a provider and if they're in multiple spots and then you're also thinking about maybe transportation barriers, right.

And how can I get my child to this daycare that, that I can afford.

Right.

so I think that's that's kind of where my mind goes again, thinking about youth and families that I've worked with and then obviously having my own children.

>> And Lindsay, have you have you had to deal with waitlists?

>> Yes, yes, yes.

>> Okay.

So Pete Nabozny, can you talk a little bit about the when we hear about access or the numbers where waitlists come in here?

>> Yeah.

So there's, there's sort of two points in the childcare system in which families sort of encounter a waitlist.

one could be when they're applying at the, to their county for the childcare assistance program, which as we talked about earlier, the funding for that program is very inequitable across the state.

So there's far fewer sort of funded slots in these rural counties that we're talking about than in more densely populated, more affluent counties.

And so what a lot of counties do, and they run short of funds, they set up a waitlist and they say, okay, you're on.

You know, we'll contact you when you're, you know, when a family drops off and it's your spot on the waitlist.

And that's preventing a lot of families from being able to pay for care, or they're piecing together until they can come off that waitlist, which could be a quite a lengthy period of time.

And that's happening all across Western New York right now.

I think every county west of us.

But Chautauqua, maybe Allegheny is closed right now and has waitlists.

and then but then the other waitlist that families encounter could be after they've gotten that, that that ticket, they've got that voucher that they can take to a provider.

Well, they might be on a waitlist to get into that classroom.

and we surveyed about 60 providers as part of this report.

And of those center based programs.

I think it was about 70% of those programs were operating waitlist.

Sometimes that waitlist was up to 100 children.

And so it can be you could encounter waitlists in multiple places depending on your circumstance, but that could really prevent you from you know, returning to work or adding hours or taking that new job that might require you know, different hours than you than you're currently managing.

And so it's, it's a real barrier for families.

And again, it's rooted in this, this unavailability of care, which is connected to all the factors we were talking about earlier.

>> Let me get a couple of emails here.

well, here's Joe who says, Evan, this is about the time of the program.

You start blaming Trump.

I would simply ask why parents who can't afford childcare are having kids.

I feel like every time Pete's in, we get a variation of this, a flavor of this.

First of all, Joe, nobody brought up the president.

This is not about Donald Trump.

This is not about I mean, there are certainly questions about how rural areas are doing what the federal funding components look like.

I know there's concern about rural hospitals closing health care services, you know, leaving certain rural areas.

But nobody mentioned the president.

Man, I didn't mention the president.

I didn't hear any guests mention the president.

Now, your question about why people are having kids if they can't afford child care.

Again, if the only people who have children are the ones who need no assistance to pay for child care, to pay for maybe higher ed everything that might be related to kids expenses, watch what happens to the birth rate.

We're already below replacement level.

Our birth rate will go from like 1.6 to, I don't know, 0.3.

That's not how society works.

Education is a great example of this.

Like we expect to have K through 12 schooling, right?

Is it your contention, Joe, that everybody has to pay for private schools?

I mean, like you're tired as a taxpayer paying for schools?

I'm not trying to be flippant, but like, we're not going to have a society if the whole idea is the only the super wealthy who can raise their kids, you know, sort of cradle to grave, get to have kids.

That's where I am, Pete.

What did I miss?

>> No, I think you covered.

I mean, we we there's different times in people's lives in which they need more or less support.

Right.

And we we do this with seniors.

We spend a lot of money on helping seniors afford the cost of retirement, the cost of health care when they're retired.

Far more than than what they're often paying into that system during their working years because we have an obligation to to our seniors to make sure that they have a quality of life when they're when they're retired.

the idea, again, that I don't want to repeat my line from last time, but the idea that only wealthy people should have children you know, I don't think of kids as, like, a luxury.

Good.

I think of children as something that can be incredibly rewarding to you as a parent.

You're contributing to the future of our society, of our economy.

You're doing a great deal of work caring for your children and trying to hold down a job which is which is very difficult.

And and a lot of these folks are paying for child care.

And what we're saying is, you know, people may need some help.

They need someone has to care for their children while they are working.

And not everyone has family, extended family who, who they can rely on.

And so if we want people to have jobs and pay taxes and contribute to their communities, you know, it's they may need something like like child care to say nothing of of assistance paying for the cost of child care.

>> And I didn't say Donald Trump.

Did you say Donald Trump?

Not yet.

I didn't hear it.

Is there a federal funding component to this?

Is there a question about what's going on nationally?

Forget the president, but just in general?

>> Yeah.

I mean, until recently, the when New York State has increased its investments and is proposing really significant investments this year, the federal government was the biggest payer for for child care assistance.

And to give President Trump some credit they increased federal spending on child care throughout his first term.

The second term has gone a bit differently in many ways.

But but the the president has he's actually put money into child care.

The, the, the, the tax reform bill that was passed in the summer increased the child dependent care credit.

I mean, there's this is a bipartisan issue by and large.

And and the parties have different opinions about how to, yeah, how to do this.

>> But but.

>> People in both parties recognize that that child care is an important support that, that we can offer families so that they can again, be more economically secure and take care of their kids.

>> Rachel, you want to add anything about this idea that, you know, if you can't, if you need help with childcare, maybe you shouldn't have had kids.

>> I think sometimes we talk about child care like it's a new idea.

and we know that in the United States, we've been really close to universal child care twice.

I think of World War two.

Right.

That's where the term daycare came from, right?

When we had women entering the workforce to support the war, we needed daycare, child care for children, while parents were going off to fight or going into the war.

We also saw this fast forward a few decades later when there was bipartisan support for universal child care, passed both the both houses and was inevitably vetoed by President Nixon.

But in the early 70s, we were almost there.

We were almost there.

So I appreciate the question, but I also know that this is something that we've been doing, and it's a it's a it's an infrastructure that has been around in our communities and our country for a very long time.

>> Kathleen Valley anything you want to add there?

>> Are you there?

Kathy?

>> Yes.

>> Okay.

Anything you want to add on that one?

>> Can I read a quick little note from a parent?

Yes.

Kind of reflects on what we've been saying is he's the father of triplets in two older sons.

We wanted to take a moment to express our deepest gratitude for everything you do for our family.

Raising triplets is a beautiful, chaotic adventure, but we truly couldn't do it without you.

As part of our village managing three children at the same age as no small feat, and we are constantly in awe of your patients energy organization.

Seeing how little Teddy, Avery and Amelia each receive individualized, individualized love and attention while being cared for gives us much peace of mind while we are at work.

You don't just watch them, you help them grow.

You learn new skills.

You navigate their early friendships.

Thank you for treating our three little ones with such care.

>> Awesome.

oh my goodness gracious.

For anybody raising triplets, I'm a twin and I am sorry to my mother for being a twin.

How difficult that must have been, right?

How much appreciation.

Yeah, yeah.

>> It comes down to consistency for children.

That's what they need, no matter where they are, who they are with, if they're getting consistent love, support and an ABC once in a while, that's what they need.

>> That's great.

And Kathy, I love that story because again, not to pick on Joe the emailer, but Joe's idea is, well, only have kids if you can afford them.

Well, what if you decide we can afford one?

You know, and then all of a sudden you have triplets.

What do you do?

I mean, like, yeah, I would hope that's obvious.

Taryn, anything you want to add to this part of the discussion?

>> So I think the biggest thing is just to keep in mind is that child care providers, these child care programs, you know, that they are the backbone to our community.

if we don't have these, then employers don't have employees.

And being able to support and invest in this field and be part of the continuation and the growth of this is, you know, an economic part to any community that is so, so important.

>> Well, and Lindsey Dailey, you're someone who's not only a parent, but also, as you said, in your your work in schools, you've talked a lot to parents who struggle with this question of what they can afford and where the breaking points are.

What would you say to Joe and people like that who are blaming parents for the situation?

>> I think if we want families to thrive and for parents to fully participate in workforce, childcare must be accessible.

And consistent and affordable, you know, and so I think that there are definitely strong programs that exist.

but access to childcare should not just depend on luck or personal Connections or privilege.

>> Well, I'll read before I get to Rick's email, which is very different.

I'm going to read one more email that's maybe of a piece with Joe.

Here's Sal, who says everything being discussed is no different than when I had my four kids and added three more for a few years years ago.

No different than my daughter who has three, or my other that has two, or my son who has one.

My daughter in law chose to stay home and they struggle my daughter with three works, and they struggled with kids at different facilities, and they are very well to do.

This show could have been aired 20 years ago.

It's common and parents figure it out, and the government shouldn't have to provide a solution.

With a $1.8 trillion deficit, it probably shouldn't rank with other measures that could grow GDP.

That's from Sal.

So again, you're talking about the federal deficit Sal of $1.8 trillion.

And I don't think anybody here is saying that this is all on the federal government.

I mean, it's obviously a hybrid approach.

so I don't think anybody's saying it's all on the government or it's only on the federal government or only on the state government.

But but Pete, Sal saying, you know, this shouldn't this there's other things that could affect GDP that should be getting our attention, not this one.

>> Yeah.

Well, there's lots of things that affect GDP.

But but one of those things.

>> I think healthy.

>> Kids does.

Yeah.

One of those things is is the ability of parents to, to work.

Right.

And we we've seen a workforce shortage in our region and in particular in some of these, these rural communities that we're talking about, that's stretching on for for a long time.

And so if a family, if they choose for a parent to stay home when their children are young, like that's that is a choice that we want to honor, and we want to find ways to support those families too.

And we could talk about different ways to do that.

it's something that that certainly the children's agenda is very supportive of.

but we also want to support families that those parents are either through choice or through necessity, need to need to get to work.

And and so they are contributing to that economy.

They're paying taxes, they're adding to GDP.

as to are those child care providers who are also employing people who are paying taxes and you know, doing payroll and all these things?

I mean, our economy is a very complicated thing, and child care is a very key component of of a healthy, growing economy.

>> Yeah.

Sal, I do appreciate the email, Joe.

I appreciate it, too.

Here's Rick who says, Evan, the lack of affordable child care is not new.

It is a perennial problem.

Back in the late 1970s and through the first half of the 80s, my wife and I struggled to provide child care that we could afford for our two children when we lived in Ohio, then Massachusetts, and finally Pennsylvania.

While in graduate school, I used my student loans to pay for their child care, not for books, tuition, or any other school related expense.

My question to your guests is how do we get the people who live in rural areas to recognize they are confronting the same challenges that we who live in urban areas, are facing with child care?

And what is the best way our society should fund child care?

Should it be like how we pay for public schools, part of our property taxes?

That's from Rick.

I'll just I want to focus on the second half.

Rick.

I'll, I'll just say is part of why we've had this conversation about rural areas is it is the same in some ways and it is different in others.

Rick.

If you read the Children's Agenda report and if you read reports from rural areas around the country yes.

Families are struggling to pay for it, but there's less of it in rural areas.

And so, I mean, we're talking per capita.

I'm not just talking about raw numbers, we're talking per child.

It's a bigger, bigger problem in rural areas.

That's why Karen and Cathy are on the program.

That's why Lindsay's telling her story.

That's why this report exists.

But but overall, I mean, it's a human experience.

I'm with you there, Rick.

And so the question of how do you pay for it?

Should it be part of our property taxes?

Should we pay for it like public schools?

I'm going to go around the full panel.

Start with Pete.

Go across the board here.

How do you redesign the system?

How do you want to pay for child care?

It's a fair question from Rick there.

>> Yeah.

I mean, I think the children's ward member of the Empire State Campaign for Child Care, which is trying to work at this issue at a statewide basis.

and we think that the the way to pay for it is through state and federal tax dollars.

we don't think that one of the challenges we see right now in these, in these communities is because the property tax base and a lot of these rural counties isn't as robust as it is in Westchester County, for example, Westchester County has more ability to pay for childcare than Chautauqua County.

And so we think that it's a this is a role that the state needs to play through our state tax revenues and things like that.

There's different ways.

You know, we not to plug a prior report, but the children's tended to put out a report last spring on potential ways that we could pay for expansions in in child care.

And, you know, I think generally we support a, a progressive tax system that allows us to everyone contributing, but certainly those who are more well off to be contributing more because they have the capacity to do so.

>> Okay.

Rachel.

>> Yep.

I agree with Pete in terms of the kind of the state and federal strategy, but we also in the report, there was a good amount of talking about the role of business.

and also supporting the childcare sector.

And I think that there's some early easy wins that as we look at Genesee County and we've got the semiconductor industry coming to New York State, we've got all these feeders that are doing the supply chain, and we want to get more people here, right.

Businesses also can play a significant role in investing in their workforce and the childcare infrastructure.

And there's quite a bit there that from easy wins to even just asking your, your employees, what do they need?

How can we help to then also being advocates and, and and leaning in in that way and sharing that you know, we are facing that 40 people are declining 40% of the people that we offer a job to have to decline because they can't get childcare.

Right.

There's a particular role there.

So looking at different various ways and sources of funding is, is an opportunity.

>> But 30s go ahead.

Taryn.

>> I think just to echo what Rachel had to say about working and supporting those businesses and helping them support their employers, that's really, you know, a good a good place to be a part of.

and the innovative that's happening with the ideas that, you know, people are trying to come up with to, to, to help this, this issue that we're all facing.

>> Okay.

And, Kathy, what do you think?

>> Real quickly, I started my own nursery school in 1976, and the kids went three days in the morning.

That was it.

Now, the pre-K, universal pre-K, they go all day, which I believe is a whole lot for kids.

But anyway, the prices of daycare were very reasonable at that time.

I was not making much money and I kept kept at it until I had three children who were getting ready to go to college, and I knew I couldn't afford it on that income.

So off I went to public school for 40 years.

So.

>> and Lindsay, about 20s final thoughts from you.

Go ahead.

>> Yeah, I would agree with what everyone has mentioned.

You know, I think rural childcare often works best when there is blended funding.

so yeah, I would agree.

>> Lindsay, good luck to you.

Thank you for sharing your story.

And best of luck to you and your kids.

>> Thank you so much.

>> Taryn Moyle.

Who is with the Community Action of Orleans and Genesee, Inc.?

Taryn, thanks for sharing your expertise with us this hour.

>> Thank you so much, I appreciate it.

>> What a story from Kathleen Valley from Praisings Kids Childcare Center in Medina.

They tell me you're an institution out there, Kathy, I see why.

Thank you for joining us this hour.

>> No, thank you for letting me speak.

>> Rachel Bonsignore, executive Director of Liftoff Western New York.

Thank you for being here.

>> Thanks.

>> Heaven from the Children's Agenda.

Pete Nabozny.

Thank you for being here.

>> Thanks for hosting us.

>> And the report that we've been talking about.

We'll share it in our show notes.

Please check it out, absorb that data and continue the conversation.

More Connections coming up next.

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