>> From WXXI News.

This is Connections.

I'm Evan Dawson.

Our connection this hour was made throughout this past week with the stories and issues that have generated buzz and raised questions, or fueled your conversations with your friends, families, colleagues, neighbors.

This hour, we explore some of those stories from what's happening in the New York State Legislature's new session beginning to what's happening here at WXXI that affects every part of our community.

And first, this is a story that's led to, I think, a range of emotions as well as some confusion among folks across the nation and here in the Rochester and Finger Lakes region.

On Monday, January 5th, leaders of the Corporation for Public Broadcasting voted to shut down the agency.

This came after Congress defunded its operations this past summer at the encouragement of President Trump, who accused public media of bias.

While CPB leaders could have chosen to continue to run the organization as a shell, it made the decision to fold entirely.

CPB president and CEO Patricia Harrison said, quote, Cpb's final act would be to protect the integrity of the public media system and the democratic values by dissolving rather than allowing the organization to remain defunded and vulnerable to additional attacks.

End quote.

That news led to a number of questions, some of which we've heard from WXXI audience members.

Is PBS news going away?

Will there be no more Sesame Street?

What's happening at WXXI?

you know, so first of all, like, no, those things are not going away.

But I think the questions are very natural and we're joined by WXXI president CEO Chris Hastings in this first segment of the hour to try to answer some of those common questions.

So thank you, Chris, for being with us in studio here.

>> Thank you for having me.

>> So that first question is just kind of the big one here.

So CPB says it's going to dissolve.

and we're going to talk about the implications.

Was that a surprise by the way, that decision of CPB, as Patricia Harrison said, to not continue as a shell.

>> I mean, I guess it was a little bit surprising, as in, it's the mechanics of it.

I don't think everybody had an understanding of what was going to happen.

We knew there was no more money coming from the federal government.

I think the idea of dissolving, I guess, was always on the table.

And, and in looking at the situation, understanding what's going on, I actually think it was probably a wise decision with everything that's going on right now, because at the end of the day, the law is still there.

There's still a public media law, but Congress has decided to defund it.

What I what I think, Pat, and what the board at CPB did is we don't want this organization.

It was started because of the law to be a problem for us.

right now there is no money coming from the federal government for WXXI or any public media institution in the country anymore.

And so having CPB there as a as a tool may, may have gotten in the way because of older contracts we have or whatnot with it not being there, it means that we are independent.

Truly, of any kind of oversight from the federal government.

>> Now, for those who saw that news and thought immediately, does this mean no more PBS NewsHour?

Does this mean XXI is in trouble?

Does this mean no more NPR?

The answer to those questions is no.

>> No.

And honestly, what it means is that we have to find other sources of funding to do the mission.

what's important is PBS is still an organization that provides content to stations like WXXI, for all intents and purposes, they're going to continue doing that.

PBS news is still PBS news.

You know, they've had to make some adjustments based on funding not coming to them.

I think you probably heard that PBS News Weekend has ended, but they also are releasing two new shows on the weekend that are brand at PBS news that are totally new, but it's going to be produced a little bit different than PBS News Weekend.

>> And so I think for for people who don't obviously see the actual funding percentages and numbers, I mean, I remember way back in 2012 when Mitt Romney was running against Barack Obama.

And I think at the second debate, the question came up about defunding PBS.

And at the time there were there were polling questions on, you know, what percentage of the federal budget do you think the Corporation for Public Broadcasting is?

Some people were saying 5% of the federal budget, 10%, 20%.

I mean, it's a tiny, tiny fraction of a federal budget.

It was never as big as people thought.

Our funding from the federal government was in the 1,719% range.

Something like that.

>> Depends on the year, but it's more like 15, 16.

>> 15, 16.

Okay, so and it's not 50%.

It's not 60.

It's not 75.

>> No.

And it was never our largest source of revenue for what we do.

Our largest source of revenue is actually our community.

And that in is amazing.

and that not to say that the cut from CPB hurt.

It hurts.

Yeah.

but I continue to be a ecstatic that our community believes in what we do, and they are partners in bringing public media to everybody.

>> Yeah.

>> I don't know too many organizations in the country that could easily withstand 15 to 16% of their budget just immediately gone.

>> Right?

Right.

>> You can do it in a year, which is what happened in this community, this remarkable rally to fill that gap that our listeners and viewers and community members stepped up to do.

The challenge is, of course, if if we're going to sort of stay whole, you have to do that again in 2026 and again in 2027, ideally.

Right?

I mean, how do you see that?

>> I think it's an ongoing it's the work that we have to do ongoing.

I can't tell you that.

It keeps me awake at night to think that we don't have CPB coming, funding coming anymore.

But I also know that we have to throw all balls in the air.

we have to do pledge.

We might have to do more pledge.

We need to go out after grants for the work that we do.

We have to develop content, strategies, strategies that possibly corporate supporters might want to come on and help fund.

we have to do more to bring money into the organization to sustain our mission.

what I want to stress to everybody is that this isn't a one off situation.

that money is gone.

And unless the federal government changes its mind the next time, they might do that may be 2029, 2030, which means all the work that we're doing internally to make ourselves sustainable.

Everything's at play.

I can tell you that we're doing well.

but it's not something that we can not keep our eye on.

We're going to have to continue to keep all things going.

It's why we're we do a lot of strategy conversations internally.

We're doing a lot of content development.

We're coming out with new projects.

We just launched a Move to Include podcasts last week.

That was intentional because it enabled us to bring in funding in different ways.

we're going to be releasing new content that we hope we can get funded.

We have to sort of put it all in the air and try to figure out how we continue to do what we want to do, and what we want to do is we want to keep serving our community with information.

What we do is so unique compared to commercial media.

>> Having been there, done that.

Yeah.

>> Right.

>> Right.

>> Yeah.

You know, we're not just taking care of one segment of the community.

We're trying to take care of all segments of our community.

PBS kids for the Young People.

NPR for everybody, because we all need information and news.

Music is for everybody people who love drama, watch masterpiece.

That's for everybody, but tends to skew a little older.

We're trying to take care of everybody in public media.

Whereas if this were a commercial station, not to name any or any, any digital platform, they try to they're very niche.

You know, we have a big umbrella in couple media, and we want to try to continue to do that.

>> Yeah.

>> I should also mention that when we talk about our numbers, it's a choice to be transparent.

And I want to say I really salute the decision that you made as a CEO to encourage all of us to be transparent with the audience, because the audience in the last year has known there's been this disruption, but not every station.

And I understand why is that transparent with the numbers?

People don't like to talk about budget numbers, I get it, but there are NPR member stations that lost way more than 15, 16%.

>> 50%.

>> 50% in smaller markets and smaller areas.

And I'm very concerned about what happens to them.

I mean, it's imagine having to replace 50% of your budget.

So so I think the transparency matters.

But why did you decide to be this transparent with the audience?

>> One, because this audience here, like we call them members if this were commission media, we would call them investors.

We might call them, you know, but but they're a part of the solution.

And quite frankly, for us not to be transparent with them.

it's called public media.

The public has to be part of the solution.

the people in this building who are working here are part of that solution, too.

And so I made the decision pretty early on that if we were going to sustain, if we are going to grow in the future, it has to be in partnership with the community.

we have to keep them a part of this.

They are our biggest investor.

They are part of the solution for how we're going to sustain for another 60 years.

WXXI was started 60 years ago this coming September.

and it was started by community members.

We need to take it back.

When we have problems, we go to them when we have successes and we have something we want them to watch, we should be willing to go to them.

And we have some problems we're trying to fix.

our board is made up of community members.

Our community board is called the Community Board because it's from the community.

And so for us to think that we can solve this problem in a bubble, that's not the smart way to go.

I think it's smart that we open the door and try our best to sort of partner.

and you never know what happens.

You know, we've had some surprising gifts from people who were like, I know what you need.

Here's a check.

I know what you need.

I want to volunteer more.

I know what you need.

Can we partner with you to help you raise some money?

What's important for me is that we cannot right the ship by ourselves.

We have to do it with staff.

We have to do it with our board members.

We have to do it with the community members.

We have to build new partnerships with, with, with creators in the community.

we have to really be honest with ourselves and with that community because it is public media and we're trying to serve so many people.

>> A couple.

>> Other points before we let you go.

a couple of listeners had asked if it is a good assumption that the CPB could come back in the future with a different sort of political climate.

>> I mean, I guess that's a possibility.

>> But you don't count on it.

>> I'm hopeful.

Right.

But I don't I can't build strategy on hope.

>> Right.

>> what?

I'm building strategy on is serving this community.

If it comes back, I don't think it's going to come back in the same way.

and I would say, honestly, you know, the money that we've gotten from the federal government, I'm going to say something probably controversial.

It was never quite enough.

and I want to try to see if it ever does come back.

How do we make it a little bit more equitable in time?

You know, I'm hoping we can be a beacon for that in the future for building a sustainable structure.

So it's almost bulletproof.

I think what's important is it's a dialog.

It's a conversation.

You know, they took away the money.

And we all know every two years, every four years, there's new administrations.

There's going to be lots of conversation about if the federal government will come back and support public media.

I encourage everybody locally.

It starts locally.

we need to hear from you about what you need.

We need to hear from you about what are the issues that are important to you.

these services that we provide from kids to drama, they're your services.

And so, like, I think it was Megan who sent me an email from somebody who was concerned about PBS News Weekend going away.

We need to hear more emails about the changes we're making, because this is your platform.

>> Well, here's one more voice here.

Sean and Fairport watch it on YouTube.

Says has WXXI considered eliminating Am 1370 with 105.9?

He says it seems redundant.

>> 105.9 it is.

But we don't look at that as a redundancy.

We look at that as trying to serve the whole audience.

there are still people who listen to Am radio.

There are still people who, because of reach Am has a different sort of technology landscape than FM.

So at the moment we're not going to eliminate it.

But everything's on the table.

We talk about that quite often.

That's why I laughed.

but at the moment there's no plans to eliminate that signal.

>> and Joel writes in to say the community members are the solutionaries for WXXI.

He is wondering if we know about what has happened in the really rural stations, like in he says, in Alaska, in Wyoming and Idaho.

Do we know if anybody's either closed down or anything like that?

>> Nobody's closed down yet.

And I don't want to even put out some of the, some of the, some of the challenges that others are facing right now.

I will say that just like in our community, you all stepped up.

There are national funders who have come up with different solutions.

there's a bridge fund that's out there that we actually weren't eligible for, but that some of these rural stations were able to tap into philanthropy continues to surprise me every day.

everybody from Ford Foundation to MacArthur Foundation to Wyncote Foundation and I'm, I'm sure I'm missing other foundations around the country.

People stepped up this year to make sure that those smaller stations are able to sustain.

Now, the the hard part about that is they gave us all more time to figure out sustainable solutions.

And the great thing about this job is I get to have those conversations with people nationally, and we're all talking about this right now.

I'm heading heading to Park City, Utah next week, where I'm going to be talking about the sustainability of public media nationally.

I need everybody to understand that this ecosystem of public media, it isn't just WXXI.

I think we're probably a great beacon for what and how it can work.

but to to your point, there are some stations that are in dire shape, and I and I worry about them as I'm thinking about how we can help.

One of the things that we're trying to really talk to each of the stations, particularly here in New York, is how can we work with you more?

I don't know how many people know this, but WXXI is part of the New York News Network.

We actually share some of our local content, our reporting that we get out of Albany.

I think you guys are bringing our Albany reporters later today.

That is so important because the reporting that's coming out of our newsrooms are going to be ending up on some of the rural stations in this state.

We're going to continue to try to help the system in the best way we can.

Without CPB.

CPB really enabled the mission.

We have to carry the mission on.

>> So as we wrap here and put a bow on this, we wanted the CEO in here just to answer the question that listeners had when you saw the news last week, the week before that, CPB was going to dissolve.

That doesn't fundamentally affect us any more than losing the federal funding last year.

>> It's the same.

>> Deal.

>> You know, so we're in the same spot, which just means we are right now.

We're strong.

We're figuring it out.

It's it's uncharted territory and it needs a lot of different people being in the solution boat.

But this community has been amazing so far, and the hope is that you continue to step up where you can and give feedback.

As the CEO says.

Let us know what you need.

Let us know what you miss.

Let us know what is so important to you and when you can support it.

This is not a fundraising pledge.

We're not in a.

>> Pledge drive right now.

>> See, I was trying to pull back from that.

>> I know.

>> Go ahead, ask.

>> But but it's the reality, right.

>> So so thanks for coming in and being transparent.

And I think I think I can speak for the audience when they say they want that transparency because people just they care.

It feels like it's their station.

They want to know what's up.

>> So it is their station and I and I'm super appreciative of our staff.

I know it's been a stressful.

My first year here, I had everything that could possibly come in my first year, but I am appreciative to the staff and our board and this community for welcoming me.

But more importantly, we're going to solve this together by being together.

>> Thanks for coming in.

>> Thank you.

>> That's the CEO and president of WXXI Public Media Chris Hastings.

We take a short break and we're coming right back with Samuel King from Albany next.

I'm Evan Dawson Monday on the next Connections, we bring you special programing on Martin Luther King Jr.. Day in the first hour.

It's a look at Dr.

King's enduring impact through the lens of his 1957 journey to Ghana.

Then in our second hour, Howard black parents talking to their children about racism and discrimination in America.

Children's author Tammy Charles joins us to talk about her work and the lessons there.

Talk with you on Monday.

>> Watch your favorite PBS shows and local documentaries on your schedule.

When you become a member of WXXI.

You'll gain access to PBS passport, a streaming benefit where you can binge all your favorite shows.

Join today at wxxi.org Pascal Confavreux.

>> This is Connections.

I'm Evan Dawson.

This is Dialogue on Disability Week here at WXXI, and one of the stories we've been following in our newsroom is what's happening at the start of the new legislative session in Albany, especially as it relates to people with disabilities.

Capitol News Bureau reporter Samuel King has been covering that, and he joins us for the segment now.

He's been on Connections before.

But for me, this is the debut.

So I get to say hello for the first time.

Samuel.

Hey, thanks for being with us.

So for the audience, tell us remind us a little bit more about yourself and your your background and reporting here.

>> Yeah, I'm in my first few weeks here in Albany, but I've reported in other parts of the country.

Most recently, I was down in Virginia, but I've reported in state houses in Minnesota and Missouri and Alabama and Minnesota.

but I'm a native of Queens in New York City, so it's good to be back closer to home.

>> Well.

>> I want to talk about some of the stories you've been working on.

You were on the concourse of Empire State Plaza earlier this week during a protest led by members of New York Adapt, or Americans Disabled for attendant programs today and Caring Majority.

And before I ask you to describe the scene, I want to listen to what one of the protesters said.

>> Enough stalling.

People's lives are on the line.

We're not political pawns here.

We're regular people that deserve a chance at life.

>> That was Gina Barber from New York.

Adapt.

So tell us more about that scene.

Samuel.

>> It was a really a small group of people, but they were definitely passionate about what they were talking about, what they wanted.

It was the first day of the session here in Albany, and they were out there reminding legislators that they are there.

They want some movement on a lot of priorities, including housing and also more support for the direct care system in New York.

wage increases and more investment that a number of other advocates have said as well.

so they are no stranger to the Capitol.

They've been here about a number of issues, and they wanted to sort of make sure their voices were heard on the first day of the session.

>> Well, on the subject of housing, they chanted our homes, not nursing homes.

Let's listen a little bit more from Miss Barbara on the subject of housing.

>> Governor Hochul has made it blatantly clear since last state of the state that she was going to be pushing for affordable housing.

However, affordable housing not accessible is of no help to the disability community.

>> You know, Samuel, certainly in Albany and every legislative session there is a debate about not only just priorities, but how you spend on those priorities.

I suspect this will just come down to whether they feel like they can find the money in the budget.

>>, and that discussion really is going to start in earnest next week.

We expect the governor to present the her budget proposal on Tuesday, which is the day that she has to do it.

so that we're expected to hear more about that.

She did talk about some housing initiatives in her state of the state speech earlier this week.

But a lot of it, you know, comes down to, for what these particular folks want, is making sure that when we're talking about affordable housing in New York, it's also about making sure that housing is inclusive.

And meets the needs of of those in the disability community.

There were a few people there who were in wheelchairs, so they definitely need different ways to, you know, get around their house in the community.

And so they're wanting that to be a part of whatever proposals are made, you know, moving forward.

>> We're talking to Samuel King, Capitol News bureau reporter for the New York Public News Network.

Another priority are changes to the consumer directed personal Assistance Program or CDF, and that allows patients to hire their own personal assistance.

Last year, the state changed the system from having hundreds of non-profits and companies operating the program to having one single statewide operator.

But advocates say there's still issues and you've got some sound.

I want to listen to Angela Hammer on the subject of control here.

>> I can hire and fire my my own, my own people.

I train them, I teach them how to help me.

I do everything, I'm in control.

>> So that's Angela Hammer.

Samuel, what do you hear there?

And tell us a little bit more about that part of the debate.

>> And I will say.

>> That about, you know, speaking with her, she she spoke up also during sort of the the rally portion of the, the event, and she was quite emotional about what, you know, this program, the PAP program has meant to her the so what the advocates are concerned about within this transition from going to having, you know, various companies and non-profits operate to system service, sort of the intermediary to, you know, to fund this program that there have been some people maybe not receiving their pay over, over the past or especially early on in the transition and something some people falling through the cracks.

so what some lawmakers are pushing for and they've had push for and they push for late in the session last year was some changes to this opening back, this program up.

So it's not just this one particular company who is the intermediary here but the governor's office is standing firm.

She's saying that this is going to save taxpayers $1 billion, that this is already reduced.

fraud and waste in the system.

And so it doesn't appear that she would support at this point any changes to the program.

But again, legislators are certainly going to try once again.

>> Well, one of those legislators is the chairperson of the Assembly's Committee on People with disabilities.

That's Angelo Santabarbara.

Let's listen to what Angelo said about that.

>> I've heard from advocates.

I've heard from families.

I've heard about real problems, real problems with the transition.

We need to make sure people are not going without during this transition.

We need to make sure we're doing what we need to do to make sure that any transition doesn't disrupt services.

>> So, I mean, Samuel, you've reported a number of places.

I'm sure you're it's no surprise that the governor is going to be accustomed to having a fight over the budget, even if it's within her own party ranks there.

And it just looks like there's, for the moment, a different difference of opinion.

There.

>> Yeah, for sure.

And it seems that, you know, throughout, you know, this debate and as you know, as we've, you know, reported here with the network last year after this transition was put into effect, we saw a number of the advocates and lawmakers say, look, there's some issues here.

let's, you know, reassess this transition.

But but throughout all of that, the Governor Hochul and her team has said, no, let's let's stick with this.

In the end, this is going to this is going to work.

So we'll see whether there are some changes in her budget proposal next week.

But as of right now and that latest statement we got from the governor's office, they don't seem inclined to to move on.

This particular issue right now.

>> All right.

One more issue to highlight here is a proposed 2.7% state spending increase for the Direct Services support system.

And you talked to Michael Sa'ar reader, who is president and CEO of the New York Alliance for Inclusion and Innovation.

His group is seeking policy solutions on housing that would prioritize essential workers like home health aides, for people who need that.

And I want to listen to some of what Michael told you.

>> A significant increase in resources a couple of years ago now has made a significant improvement in the what was a wildly unsustainable situation.

It has made a significant improvement in that, and we need to make sure that we don't lose any more ground with regard to the system in which we're operating.

>> So, again, they're they don't want to lose any ground.

They want, you know, more resources so people can have access to home health aides.

I just to me, it seems like the same story as the other categories that we've been talking about.

This question of, is there the money for it or is that the wrong way to look at it?

Samuel.

>> I don't think that's necessarily the wrong way to to look at it.

but, you know, as he was mentioning and some of the other advocates and lawmakers have said that there has been investments in recent years, after many years of not having these investments in terms of salaries and infrastructure.

And that led to a lot of turnover.

You know, these positions don't often pay the most.

So people, you know, it can be sometimes hard to hold on to people unless you know, they are really committed.

Not to say that people aren't, but, you know, you have to survive, especially in a high cost of living state like New York and many parts of the state.

Housing is unaffordable.

So what they've done in terms of raising those salaries and that investment over the past couple of years has sort of helped stabilize things.

At some point, there's still issues.

There's still a long way to go.

but they say now is not the time to sort of stop that investment and keep going.

And also in terms of finding things that may not necessarily cost money sort of directly and sort of paying it out, but finding some solutions to the housing question, maybe offering priority to those workers and some other ways, offering some incentives to businesses to, to, to help with that sort of thing is maybe another way to do this.

That probably is not as resource intensive as just saying, you know, we're we're going to throw a lot of money at it.

>> last point on, on this issue, you talked to Maureen O'Brien, president of the New York State Industries for the disabled or Nysid NYSE, and she says in New York State, I think the number you have is that individual disabilities with disabilities are unemployed at a rate of 64%.

Is that right?

>> 64%?

She she said that.

And that is sort of a persistent problem in her group is part of the many that who who connect the disabled with, with employment and connect them with businesses.

And they are seeking you know, not only new investment, more investment in the system.

Some of the other issues we've talked about, but in terms of opening up some of the regulations in New York State that would allow more businesses to be a part of this issue.

the governor didn't directly sort of address that issue in her state of the state message, but in her in her written message, she did talk about looking at ways to provide more employment opportunities for people with disabilities.

She touted the administration's record so far, including appointment of a chief disability officer.

looking at some ways for technology to help in the workplace.

so these are certain other debates that will happen here at the Capitol as we move forward this session.

>> All right.

Let's ask you to put your, your, your gaze on some other issues outside of what we've been talking about here.

What is there buzz in Albany about any one particular issue?

I mean, the interesting thing as an observer is it's an election year for the governor.

You know, she appeared on stage with the mayor, the new mayor of New York City.

Zohran Mamdani, and was talking about a number of programs.

Republicans in New York State are criticizing her for the possible spend on on some of these programs.

What is what is the buzz like in Albany right now?

>> It's certainly.

>> Sort of waiting to see sort of what can happen with a lot of these programs.

You know, I mentioned the budget expected to get that proposal early next week.

So we'll get some more specifics.

there's a lot of talk about childcare.

And we saw the announcement, of course, in you might have read about the announcement in New York City.

And then the past couple of days, the governor has talked about sort of a pilot program elsewhere in the state.

And that seems to be the big thing that upstate lawmakers in western New York lawmakers are stressing, like, okay, we get childcare, we want universal child care.

what is that going to mean for us?

we understand New York has the infrastructure already which is kind of why that's starting first, so to speak.

But how do you expand that?

So, so that's something that, you know, a lot of lawmakers have questions about because they're up for reelection, too, and that's something they're going to want to hear from their voters as well.

>> This is a fascinating, fascinating state to cover politically.

So, Samuel, before you go, where did you grow up?

>> Oh, boy.

That's a that's a good question.

It's not it's complicated but not complicated.

So my childhood was kind of split.

My family is originally from Alabama, but they moved to New York state.

generations ago.

So I was born in New York and then, you know, elementary and middle school.

Actually, I lived in Alabama.

And then for high school, I moved back to New York, to New York City.

So sort of had a perspective of of different.

>> Yeah, ways.

>> And growing up and, and seeing other parts of the country that, you know, I hope to bring to this position as well.

>> Did you.

>> Consider yourself kind of a political junkie growing up?

>> I did, I did, I did it's very it's like a very marked transition as like, you know, like what my that was my childhood obsession, so to speak.

After after a while, like, you know, kids had to be firefighters or astronauts.

Mine, mine was just being interested in politics, so.

>> Well, you're certainly in an interesting place.

You know, your predecessors who have covered the state capitol, especially for many years.

Karen DeWitt.

You know, they were used to occasionally taking some heat from politicians and, you know, got an earful from some governors.

And I'm sure that occasionally will happen.

But we really look forward to your coverage and the time that you can spend with us, elucidating us on some of these issues.

Thank you for spending some time, and I look forward to the next.

>> Yes, definitely.

I'll be ready to come back anytime.

Thanks.

>> Samuel King Capitol News Bureau reporter for the New York Public News Network.

Short break.

We've got more Connections wrapping up the week next.

I'm Evan Dawson Monday.

On the next Connections, we bring you special programing on Martin Luther King Jr.. Day in the first hour.

It's a look at Dr.

King's enduring impact through the lens of his 1957 journey to Ghana.

Then in our second hour, Howard black parents talking to their children about racism and discrimination in America, children's author Tammy Charles joins us to talk about her work and the lessons there.

Talk with you on Monday.

>> In today's fast paced world, where misinformation spreads rapidly, you can rely on your public radio station for objective, factual reporting and civil discourse.

Your monthly gift is vital to maintain the reliable information you depend on.

Please start or increase your support today.

>> This is Connections.

I'm Evan Dawson and I'm glad to be joined in studio by my colleague Sarah Murphy Abbamonte, Project Manager for Move to Include here at WXXI.

I usually see you in studio when we're on pledge drive.

It's nice just to see you on Connections.

>> Yes, and a lot later than we normally are on the mic together.

>> Usually about 7.

>> A.m.

>> When I see Sarah.

>> In here.

we talk a lot about Move to Include, but I think it's important sometimes to just pull back and make sure our whole community understands what it is and what the mission is, and more about what you do.

So I want to start with that for you.

>> Go ahead.

>> Sure.

So there's two hats really are two sides to move to include.

There's everything we do here locally, including Dialogue on Disability, which is the programing that we've been bringing to you all this week.

Television, radio, news.

And that's our partnership with Al Sigl Community of Agencies that actually predates what we now call Move to Include.

That was the seed of Move to Include over 20 years ago.

And that's a story I love to bring out to our PBS and NPR affiliates across the country.

That accessibility and inclusion can start small, like wherever you are on your journey.

You can start here and grow to what we have now.

And so what I'd like to share with some folks today is what we are doing nationally, outside of the Rochester area, because I don't think we talk about that as much here locally.

>> Absolutely.

>> So so the floor is yours here.

Tell us about that.

>> Great.

So Move to Include, I know Chris was on earlier talking about CFPB.

One of the things we did get from CPB several years ago now was funding for a pilot project to bring move to the programing, the content, the concept to other stations throughout the country.

And so we've now created a national network out of that original pilot.

We have ten plus other stations that are involved with Move to Include, and they go as far west as Portland, Oregon, and as far south as Fort Myers, Florida.

We have several stations in New York that are working with us and in the Midwest as well.

So this is something that runs the gamut, can be initiated in any community.

And so we're always looking to add more partners to that network.

But what we're doing right now is we're taking what we've learned and what we've not perfected, but evolved throughout the past ten plus years of Move to Include.

And we're bringing that knowledge and that expertise to stations who may not be able to have a full time accessibility expert on their staff, not be able to put resources behind trainings.

And we create playbooks and things like that.

So really providing those resources to those stations and providing myself and the team that has grown up here with Move to Include to our colleagues throughout the network, so that we're able to share the knowledge that we've gained.

>> I mean, in some ways, it puts WXXI in kind of a national leadership position, doesn't it?

>> It does, it does.

And a lot of times that means myself or Chris or some of our other staff members going to places like PBS Annual meeting or NPR headquarters in D.C.

and talking to our colleagues, presenting what we found, what we're doing, and letting them know that they can also be a part of this work.

>> When you talk to your colleagues from as far west as Portland and as far south, as you say, Fort Myers.

>> Yeah, Fort Myers, Florida.

>> I mean, are there common themes of of issues that maybe are impeding their coverage or ability to sort of grow this effort?

What are you hearing?

>> Yeah, it's it's almost like a roadblock of good intentions because people want to people want to be doing this work, but maybe they don't have a lived experience themselves or someone they love of disability.

And so there's a lot of good intention, but they don't want to put a foot wrong.

So a lot of what we're doing is talking folks through just kind of disability etiquette and inclusive language 101 and getting them past that stumbling barrier.

and then on top of that, of course, is the real logistical challenge of limited resources of staff capacity and funding.

>> So I want to say a couple things about that.

When it comes to inclusive language.

I don't view this as part of what I would call the culture wars language police for the last decade.

I view this as something different in the disability community, that it does matter because just as an example, earlier this week when we we talked about marriage equality on, we heard that in the first episode of the new move to include podcast.

Yes, marriage equality is something that, when most people hear it, they go, oh, you know, LGBTQ rights, same sex marriage.

They're not thinking in the capacity of the disability community.

Okay?

But when you hear the guests that we had on that program, say, ask yourself why that is and ask yourself if if equality really is it because to the disability community, we still don't have marriage equality as we learn in the podcast in episode one.

And it was really, really interesting.

And sometimes the way we talk about issues and the way we talk about communities, either inclusively or exclusively, really does matter.

The words matter, the implications matter.

I don't view this as kind of that.

Everybody's kind of wringing their hands about the language police the last ten years.

I view this as different.

How do you see it?

>> Yeah.

So language, along with things like adaptive technology and even the you know, the tech that we use for this show is constantly evolving, becoming more accessible, becoming more inclusive.

And the disability community is not a monolith.

so we talk a lot about the two different kinds of language being identity first or person first language.

And there are different pockets within the disability that prefer one over the other, and an individual could prefer one over the other.

So we always want to make sure that not in a cancel culture sort of way, but that we're responding to what the individual and the community's preference is.

>> Yeah, absolutely.

And so the other thing I want to mention was I kind of want to out myself a little bit.

I started hosting this program in 2014, and one of the first months I was on probably felt like I was drowning a little, you know, doing ten hours a week, going like, whoa, this is a big job.

So we booked a show.

I don't remember 12 years ago exactly what the subject was, but it was about the disability community.

And we had the leaders of a number of agencies on and they had a lot of really important things to say about resources, et cetera.

we did not have a person with a disability on that program, and that was a good time for me to learn a phrase that I've never forgotten, which is nothing about us without us.

You hear this a lot.

it's a really useful phrase, by the way, in talking about any community, but especially in the disability community, what was shared with me very firmly, but I thought lovingly was please don't continue the trend of leaving our voices out of talking about us.

Without us, and not having our experience at the table.

And we've tried ever since that day to make sure every conversation, especially about the disability community, but also just generally, I mean, like people with disabilities obviously have a lot of really important things to say and they feel left out so often.

So we're doing our best with that.

I wonder if nationally, that's part of the conversation, too.

How do we make sure no matter where you are, these conversations are inclusive conversations?

>> Oh, absolutely.

The number of times I get invited to something, or I get an email that talks about Dei and there's no a on there.

So I'm always writing back and saying, are you going to talk about accessibility?

Because I don't I mean, Dei conversations are important, but for me to, you know, with limited time to show up at your conference or your webinar and you're going to give either just lip service to, to accessibility or not address it at all.

We have some educating to do there for sure.

>> And I also want to say that I think you got to we the the big general we in public media have to be open to criticism and very direct feedback on what is not working in terms of accessibility.

So what what you are seeing this week in the launch of the Move to podcast is there was a video component.

There's audio component where we try to make sure closed captioned is is accessible and available.

>> Captioned, and we're going to be doing an ASL version of the podcast as well.

>> Awesome.

So those things do matter because I mean, if anybody hears about that in our building, you probably hear it first from the community when when we don't do those things right.

And how are we doing overall with making sure the accessibility component is there?

>> You know, I think we're ahead of the game in a lot of ways, because every time we start a conversation about a project in this building, move to include us around the table, and we're thinking about inclusion and accessibility from the get go.

That's not always the case.

And quite frankly, when you aren't starting out from that position, it shows.

But that being said, that's over 20 years of experience and not everyone has that.

So we want to really hit home that we're not perfect.

Things are changing, we're keeping up, and we're able to keep up a little bit better than some other folks.

But we still have some learnings to do.

And I myself identify as a person with a disability, someone who's neurodivergent.

I only have that lived experience of my own to really, you know, confidently rely on.

So I'm always looking at who's not around the table, who are we not hearing from, and who can we invite to that table so that we can get more feedback?

I'm always open to feedback, and like you said, coming at it from a place of humility.

And a lot of times you don't know what you don't know because you don't have that lived experience.

And that to be said, you know, we don't want to rely completely on the emotional labor of people with disabilities.

We want to be working with partners in a way that is mutually beneficial, in a way that they're fairly compensated for their work.

For us.

>> We started this hour with the CEO and president of WXXI Public Media, Chris Hastings, because we had a significant number of questions from listeners earlier this month when it was announced that the CPB, the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, was dissolving.

Now, we knew last year we were losing federal funding, but CPB has been in place for many years, and its dissolution kind of sparked these new questions like, well, oh, my gosh, what does this mean for you?

And and the answer was in terms of funding, it didn't change anything.

We already lost federal funding.

But I am curious to know for you what Cpb's dissolution means.

Does it affect anything in the way that accessibility, conversation, support, funding, possible future partnerships?

Does that change anything?

>> Not directly, I would say more.

So it's kind of the atmosphere or the attitude within the public media system that's changed.

We saw very much a cooling or a pulling back of folks you know, I'll say around November of 2024 and certainly early to mid 2025, people weren't sure where things were going with Dei, where the federal funding was going.

So there was a lot of hesitation to engage in something ambitious, like joining a move to include network.

We're now seeing that that that tether, that leash from CPB and federal funding.

While it is very scary, and I don't mean to diminish it in any way, has given stations and people within the system the opportunity to be innovative and to say Dei is a value that we believe in, and so we want to double down on that.

We heard that from our own leadership here at WXXI.

And so not having that that federal funding that could be endangered gives people an opportunity to reengage with us.

And we are seeing that people are starting to reach out from different stations that haven't engaged with us before and say, I have an interest, tell me more.

How do we get involved?

and I'm just so excited to see it because we spent 2025, rightly so, focusing on a lot of our local efforts.

And so to be able to pick up that national work now has been very gratifying.

>> Talking to my colleague, Sarah Murphy Abbamonte project manager for Move to Include.

So let's talk about some things that are coming up.

starting with Saturday's film screening.

yes.

What's going on?

>> So WXXI classical is part of their WXXI Classical Presents series at the little is going to be presenting the chorale, which is with Ralph Fiennes, and that has a component to it that we include under move to include mental health and talking about I believe it's a PTSD type.

conversation.

So we wanted to be on board and sponsor that as part of the Dialogue on Disability this week.

The timing worked out perfect, and we'll be sponsoring also the ASL interpretation at that event.

>> Okay.

working with PBS doing some promotion of their audio described programs.

>> Yeah.

So PBS has a great catalog of audio described programing, and it's something that they were very focused on in the past year.

So we'll be rolling out some promotion of that in the coming weeks and months.

That was a great way for us to to partner with them as well.

>> And projects on adaptive sports that are in pre-production.

>> What's going on there?

Yeah.

So Special Olympics, New York Winter games are going to be here in the Rochester area for the second year in a row at the end of February.

So we're very excited to be a sponsor of that and to be bringing some of that coverage.

You'll see it both in the news coverage immediately, but then we're going to be working on some longer term projects with teams and athletes that are at those games.

>> I think we're having a conference.

And you said this coming Wednesday, 1:00 right here on Connections.

We'll be talking about that coming up here.

also working with NPR system on accessibility.

Tell me about that.

>> Yeah.

So last September NPR convened a bunch of Dei executives from across the NPR system.

We had a two day summit, talked about some really great things, some scary things, not going to lie, but we were all just so engaged and energized by the conversations that were had at that summit that we're now bringing that out to the NPR system as a whole.

So myself, along with a couple of colleagues within the system, are going to be chairing a national task force on accessibility for the NPR stations.

>> What's scary things?

>> you know, a lot of legal and financial stuff.

so we're kind of working through that.

It gave us I think it was the first time we'd really convened as a cohort in person.

So it was really great to see the other folks in the system that are doing the work as well.

>> And collaborating with a nationally recognized accessibility agency.

Doing what?

What's going on?

>> We are so one of the things that we offer to our partner stations are playbooks.

We have kind of a Move to Include 101 playbook and a playbook that talks about the more technical aspects of production available to our stations.

So the next in that series is going to be a playbook on accessible social media and digital presence.

And that's going to be co-branded with co-branded with Levant Consulting.

>> So what would you say to the average American journalist who doesn't have a disability and maybe doesn't think in a way that thinks about the full audience and the disability community?

What do you want them to know?

>> Be curious.

just like any other group, I want you to, you know, be respectful of where people are on their journey.

Disclosure is a very personal thing.

And so making sure that you're mindful of asking how people self-identify, just like we've gotten used to asking about pronouns when we interview someone, asking, how do you self-identify?

Whether or not the disability is even germane to the story?

there are plenty of resources out there.

There's a style guide that we can share with journalists that talks about how you talk about disability in a journalism context.

But then there's our team here doing inclusion desk work at WXXI, our partners down the Thruway, Buffalo, Toronto Public Media have the disabilities beat with Emily Watkins and Joe Shapiro at NPR is doing some national coverage.

And there's many, many other journalists throughout the country that are doing great work.

>> And I want to close with this idea because I think it's important to talk about our values and what we truly aim to achieve and be, to be transparent, to stick with the theme about that.

I think it would be a problem if a Dialogue on Disability Week was kind of just tokenized.

It was to to to say, well, we checked the box.

I remember that first year hosting this program back in 2014, there were a couple of conversations.

I remember there was one where we had a panel with for people with disabilities and they said, I can't remember.

I remember someone saying, I can't remember the last time I heard a program where it was for disabled people in a studio, just talking about their experiences.

I mean, this is not saying anything about the previous host of this program or, I mean, it's just it's an evolution, right?

It is.

But part of our goal throughout the year is just to make sure that voices are representative on this program, in our news coverage, in the events that we do.

It's not for a one week a year.

I think the week helps us sharpen the focus and be intentional, but I think it would be a problem if that was like a hey, we did that, you know, we'll talk to you next January.

What do you think?

>> Yeah, absolutely.

And I think the team here specifically, you know, this is my job 40 plus hours a week because we know it's not confined to Monday through Friday.

9 to 5. can confirm.

But this is my main you know, this is my main focus.

I'm not doing other work.

So it would be easy for the team here to say, oh that's moved to includes problem or that's Sarah's problem.

and nobody here does that.

I mean, it's just been an amazing, amazing team to work with.

Everyone keeps inclusion and accessibility top of mind.

They know it's what we're known for within the system, and they know it's what our community is asking for.

And keeping that top of mind has just been an amazing team to walk in and start working with.

>> And certainly not perfect.

I mean, we're all trying to improve.

>> We're on we're on the journey altogether.

>> We certainly are.

I mean, that's been also a theme today, and I want to thank you for doing this work and for popping in here to help close the week.

Sarah Murphy Abbamonte project manager for Move to Include.

Nice to see you here.

>> You too.

Thanks, Evan.

>> Thank you very much.

And I want to remind everyone as we close Dialogue on Disability Week here on Connections.

the first episode of the Move to Include podcast is out where you get your podcasts.

really powerful stuff.

We covered it on Monday.

Please check it out and please share it with people who I think would also also love podcasts.

So a lot going on there from all of us at Connections.

Thank you for finding us on whatever platform it is.

We're in a lot of different places, and however you find us.

Thank you for finding us.

Thank you for sharing.

Thanks for being a fan and supporter of your public media.

And we'll be back with you next week right here on Connections.

>> This program is a production of WXXI Public Radio.

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