>> From WXXI News.

This is Connections.

I'm Evan Dawson.

Our connection this hour was made in September of last year, when students in schools across New York State turned off their phones and either stored them in their lockers or had them collected by teachers for the duration of the school day.

The bell to bell restriction on smartphones applies to students in public schools, charter schools, and Boces schools statewide, and it has been met with mixed reactions.

New York's policy comes after a number of states made similar moves.

Florida was the first state to regulate cell phone use in schools.

That policy dates back to 2023.

It began as a law restricting the use of phones in public school classrooms, but allowed districts to enforce their own policies.

Florida Governor Ron DeSantis later expanded the law banning cell phone use in elementary and middle schools for the entire day.

According to Ballotpedia, as of December 35th states and Washington, D.C.

have signed or enacted laws or policies regulating cell phone use in schools.

ABC news reports that 20 of those states have completely banned wireless communication devices, including personal phones or tablets, for the entire instructional day.

It notes that there are exceptions for some students with disabilities.

The policies have generated strong reactions from students, parents, teachers, and administrators on different sides of the issue.

Some are celebrating the restrictions, saying students are more engaged, less distracted and are happier.

Some parents have expressed concern about not being able to reach their kids during possible emergency situations, and students have nuanced feedback.

That's what we're going to focus on today.

We've invited high school students who are on February break to come on in and talk about this, and they have a range of views.

They do not all agree, and that's okay.

Let's talk about it with our guests in studio.

Hello to Eli Fybush, a senior at Brighton High School.

Thank you for being here.

Next to Eli is Norah Kirkebye, a junior at Pittsford Sutherland High School.

To you.

Hi.

Across the table.

Hello to Carter Markowycz, a freshman at Greece Arcadia High School.

Thanks for being here.

Hello.

And joining us remotely.

Helena Dixon a senior at Fairport High School Helena.

Thanks for being with us.

>> Hi.

Thank you.

>> So we're just going to go across the panel and I'm going to start with Helena in general here.

I just want to get initial reactions on if you're feeling like this was the right move.

And then we're going to kind of we'll go deeper on what the days are like, et cetera., and what's changed.

But in general, Helena, I'll start with you.

Do you support the Bell-to-bell ban in New York State?

>> I do, I think there's more connection in the hallways.

>> More connection in the hallways.

Just tell me a little bit more about that.

What you mean by that?

>> during passing periods, I remember last year, people had their heads down.

They were like phones and screens.

This year, we're saying hi in the hallway.

Lots of waves, lots of smiles.

And I think it makes a big difference.

>> Okay.

Carter Markowycz do you support the bell-to-bell ban?

>> I do not support the Bell-to-bell ban.

>> Okay.

Tell me why.

>> I feel like it's just like in case of emergency.

That's.

It feels just terrible to have your phone locked away.

You can't speak with anyone or contact anything at all.

>> Okay, so your biggest concern is in emergency situations, you feel kind of stranded.

>> Yeah.

>> Okay.

Across the table.

Norah, how do you feel about the ban?

>> I don't support it.

>> Okay.

And tell me why.

>> I think the same thing as Carter.

I just think that it's a little dangerous not to have our phones in the state of the world right now.

>> Okay, and let's get Eli's take.

Support or oppose?

>> I would agree with the Carter and Norah that there are some security risks with it.

>> Is that the number one issue to you?

>> It would be.

And just generally not having communication that we have had in recent years, I think is it's definitely a big adjustment.

>> Okay.

So we're going to talk about that adjustment.

But it's interesting.

Three out of the four oppose it for maybe for multiple reasons.

But the number one reason being if there is an emergency, God forbid, who, who and how are you going to communicate?

And without that mobile device, how do you do that?

So Helena Dixon is someone who supports this and has liked what you see.

What do you make of your your peers?

They're talking about possible emergencies.

>> I completely understand where they're coming from.

You know, I think in the state of this world, I think that's a very valid point.

However, schools are so quick to inform people.

I know our superintendent, he's super attentive to that sort of thing, and he addresses all of the issues.

And I also think for the most part, my school is super safe.

Like there's lots of background checks of people who come in the building, things like that.

So.

>> Okay.

yeah.

I just want to say, I mean, it's terrible that anybody is thinking I. It is not a good sign of a healthy moment in society when kids are thinking about this.

This sharply.

And I feel for all of you.

I mean, I'm I'm just sorry that it's even on the radar.

but I understand, so.

So let's now talk a little bit about how things have changed.

You heard Helena talking about how things have changed, and Helena sees a positive change.

Carter, you're a freshman now, so, you know, as the youngest on the panel, I mean, I don't know if your experience is going to be a little bit different, but in general, what have you seen change from your own experience this year?

>> so this year, obviously I'm a freshman, right?

But in my school, this was enacted all the way back when I was in sixth grade.

>> Okay.

>> So I've had this the entire time.

And it's it's shown a lot of issues with kids just causing destruction to like, open the pouches or just get their phones out or their belongings.

>> Oh, tell me more about that.

So, so I want to describe again what the actual ban is like, because in some states you can't even have a cell phone in the building.

not the case here.

Your phones are in the building, but they're secured.

Is that.

Is that right, everybody?

Yeah.

Okay, so you got them in a secure pouch, right?

And.

Yes.

And where is that pouch located?

>> It's located on you.

But if you don't have the pouch, your phone gets put in the office.

>> Okay.

And you're saying that going all the way back to sixth grade for the last several years, you've had classmates who have destroyed pouches trying to get to the phone?

>> Yes.

>> To do what?

>> To get their phone out.

>> But like, for what purpose?

>> So they could have it just on them in case of anything.

>> Okay.

Oh, okay.

so they're that concerned about emergencies that they can't stand the idea that they have it, but it's in a pouch.

They want it out.

>> I believe that's not it for all people, but I do believe that it still does cause chaos that isn't needed to be happening.

>> Okay, Nora, how do you see that one?

I mean, do you see people distracted by the fact that it's in a pouch and it's not available?

>> at my school, we don't have them in pouches.

We're just supposed to keep them in our lockers or our cars.

But I, like a lot of people, don't follow that rule.

Like, a lot of people.

Just keep them in their bags or their pockets.

>> Yeah, but they're like, they'll put them on, like silent and stuff, but.

>> Okay, I guess what I'm what I'm going to is it's supposed to be in your locker.

Yeah.

And and you're not supposed to in between now going to check it.

Right.

Yeah.

So bell to bell means even in between classes you're supposed to be doing what Helena's talking about, which is saying hi to people and not grabbing your phone in your locker and and checking it and doing stuff on it.

Is that correct?

>> Sure.

>> But people are using the phones anyway.

>> Yeah.

>> Okay.

How often?

>> Like all the time.

>> All the time?

>> Yeah.

>> Okay.

I'm not going to ask you if you use it.

>> I wouldn't answer it.

>> You wouldn't answer that question.

Okay.

But in general, what are students using it for?

>> I know a lot of people that I know.

They use it for music to regulate themselves, like I used to do that last year.

But ever since then, it's been hard to do, like, focus on stuff, because I usually just listen to music to, like, I don't know, I just focus better with music.

And I know a lot of other people in my school that have the same problem.

But we can we can have like music, but it has to be like an iPod, like an iPod with no display or anything.

>> Yeah, old school iPod.

>> Yeah.

They can't have displays or anything and like wired headphones too.

>> Okay.

and for you tell me a little bit more about what music does for you.

>> it just helps me, like, calm myself down.

Like, if I get stressed out or, like, I don't know if I just have, like, a really bad day.

I just.

And I before the band happened, I used to I used to have my iPod in all the time, like I would.

>> During class.

>> Yeah, I only had one in though.

I don't know, I, I had really good grades last year though.

>> But okay.

But if I'm your teacher and I'm like, hey, I don't want you to even have one in, I want you entirely focused on me.

What do you say?

>> I. I would take it out if they were, like, really upset about it, but most teachers understood where I was coming from because I. I have an IEP and stuff.

So like, the accommodations are there for a reason.

>> Okay.

So as someone with an IEP, do you think that there should be more flexibility for students who may be using their phone in ways like you use it?

>> Yeah, I do think there should be.

I know there's a girl in a couple of my classes.

She uses it during tests.

She listens to music during tests, and it helps her focus.

And I used to do that, too.

But I'm not allowed to do that.

But it's.

It's in her plan.

>> Okay.

Eli, what's it?

What's it like functionally at your at Brighton?

You're a senior.

what has been the change in terms of what life is like at school?

>> I have noticed a lot less people on their phones, in the hallways and more people talking to each other, which I will admit is quite nice.

but I have also seen a lot of people really just finding ways around the phone ban by.

I know a lot of people go in the bathrooms and use their phones.

There, and.

>> And you're not supposed to do that, right?

No.

Okay.

>> And a lot of people that you know, have them on them because they're supposed to be at Brighton.

They're supposed to be in our lockers.

but I doubt that most people actually have them in their lockers.

>> So help me understand something.

I understand the idea that students are so concerned about a possible emergency that they opposed this bell to bell ban, that they want something on their person that says if something is going down, I can be in touch with whoever I need to be in touch with.

That's not the same as saying, I'm going to go to the bathroom and no one is going to be able to come in and check on me, and I'm just going to pull the phone out and start using it.

What are you using it for?

In that case?

>> I mean, I haven't done that, so.

>> But what do you think students are using it for?

>> I would assume looking at the internet.

>> So social media.

Yeah.

Different.

>> Probably.

And texting people.

>> Okay.

is that an argument for or against the ban?

>> I think that I mean, there's definitely people that are very addicted to their smartphones.

And so they feel the need to go to the bathroom and take their phones out.

and that would definitely be an argument for the ban.

But I don't think that really gets to the root of the issue, because people are still finding ways around the ban, and, you know, not that you should control what people do at home, but people are going to go home and look at their phones for the rest of the day.

>> Yeah, that I understand too.

so before we get back to Helena again, if you look at polling, parents seem to like this.

Teachers like it.

But there's a split.

I mean, like, it's not it's not a monolith.

It's not like everyone agrees or disagrees on this, but students tend to be more against it.

And you're hearing three out of four students on this panel who don't like the Bell-to-bell ban for for various reasons.

So I'm going to ask the three students who oppose it if they do see anything good in the ban.

And I'm going to ask the one student who likes it if she finds any problems with it.

So I think you mentioned that you do see a little more interaction, Eli.

I do.

Is that the best part of this?

>> I would think so.

It is nice to see less people on their phones and more people interacting and having conversations.

>> Is lunch different?

We kept hearing that lunch is going to be different.

Students are going to talk to each other again.

>> I don't eat my lunch in the cafeteria.

>> Okay.

>> So I have a little spot in the hallway with my friends, but so I'm not completely sure.

But from what I've seen, you know, I still go to the cafeteria to get my lunch and it has been louder in there.

So you know, I haven't seen people on their phones in there.

>> Okay.

Nora, is there anything good in this band to you?

>> I yeah, I do see a lot of people like connecting more often and stuff.

>> Just in between classes or like at lunch or where.

>> I don't know, I don't have a lunch period, so I never I'm never in the cafeteria, but I do see people like interacting a lot more in the hallways and stuff.

>> Okay.

Carter, can you find anything good in this ban?

>> I think the best part about the ban is just more interaction between students.

>> Okay.

And, Helena, as someone who supports the ban, what's the biggest problem that you see with it?

>> For me, it's really hard to I'm like, in clubs, like like leadership.

And it's really hard for me to connect with my advisors as often as I did last year.

And like, I'm used to checking my email, like every passing period.

And now I can't do that.

So.

>> Okay.

when did you first get a phone?

Helena?

>> I think seventh grade during Covid.

>> Seventh grade during Covid.

Okay.

Carter, when did you get a phone?

>> I believe it was sixth grade.

>> Okay.

Sixth grade is how old are you?

Doing some math, seven.

No.

Is that 12?

What is that, something.

>> Like 11?

>> 11?

12 years old?

Okay.

Nora, for you.

>> I got mine freshman year of high school.

>> Okay.

13, 14 years old, 14 or 15 years old there.

Okay.

And, Eli, first phone.

>> I got mine in sixth grade because that's when I started walking to and from school.

And so my parents wanted to keep in touch with me.

Okay.

>> So again, a range of experience.

And listeners, if you've got questions, comments, we've got a panel of students talking about the bell-to-bell ban, how they are experiencing it, how it is affecting them during the school day where they see the good in it, where they see the bad in it.

and it is it is not just one view here as you are hearing, which I think is a healthy thing to hear.

we have Eli Fybush a senior at Brighton High School Norah Kirkebye a junior at Pittsford Sutherland.

Carter Markowycz a freshman at Greece.

Arcadia, Helena Dixon a senior at Fairport High School.

All with us listeners.

If you want to call the program, it's 844295 talk.

It's 8442958255263 WXXI.

If you're in Rochester, 2639994, email the program Connections at wxxi.org.

Or you can join the chat if you're watching on YouTube on the WXXI News YouTube channel, you can join the chat there.

and you know, Nora, you mentioned how music helps you.

New York State policy is supposed to have exceptions for students, either with disabilities or with IEP plans.

Do you just do you find that that's not being used or helpful or what do you what do you see there?

>> I've had experiences with teachers in recent years where they don't respect certain people's IEPs and their resources.

But I don't know, I just it's not in my plan to have music or anything.

>> Okay.

So for you, that was more just a, a personal preference of something that helped you, but because it's not in the IEP, you don't get an exemption for it.

No.

Okay.

All right.

Do you know any students who are able to use either IEP or other reasons to get exemptions?

I do yeah.

And that's been respected in school from what you understand.

Teachers are allowing that.

>> Yes.

some teachers get a little upset.

But once they like explain what's going on.

I think some teachers forget about people's.

Their plans and stuff, and they forget that some people have different accommodations than others.

>> Okay.

And but you you mentioned a couple times teachers getting upset.

So let me ask all of you you can't speak for every teacher or every administrator, and there's going to be a range of views.

But in general, Nora, do you think teachers are happy with this band?

Do they talk about it?

Do you think your administration is happy about the ban?

>> I know a lot of teachers that are happy about it, and I know a couple that are like, they can go half, they can go both ways, but most of them are happy about it.

>> Okay.

Eli, what do you experience?

>> I have most of my teachers are pretty happy with the ban, and I have one who thinks it should go even farther.

>> In what way?

>> I have a teacher that thinks that we should also, you know, because people show up before school starts and talk to their friends and then stay after for clubs or whatever.

And this teacher thinks that they should be banned during that time, too.

So just in the building entirely in general.

>> Okay.

Carter, what do you experience with teachers and staff at your school?

>> Generally at my school, I've noticed that a lot of the teachers actually don't like it as much, because it just seems to prove as more of a hassle that students are on their phones more because they're trying to sneak them in.

>> Okay, Helena, what about you at Fairport?

>> I think most teachers appreciate the ban.

I think as for administration, they get annoyed because they have to patrol and watch kids who are on their phones and like, like at my school, we don't have the pouches.

So administrative administrators will just take your phone and you get it back at the end of the day.

>> Well, let me grab a phone call from Keith and Victor, who's got a question about phones and uses of emergency.

Hi, Keith.

Go ahead.

>> I agree for I agree to the support that the kids shouldn't have it.

They don't need it.

I can understand the concern of, you know, an active shooter.

But again, they're more apt to get into an accident and driving home than that happening.

But if they're so concerned and they keep using the excuse the active shooter, would they be happy then if they had the basic jitterbug flip phone for that purpose?

>> You mean a non-smartphone, a dumb phone?

>> Yeah, the dumbest phone possible that you just call.

>> Okay, the dumbest phone possible.

All right, Carter, so you worry about in case of emergency.

Keith is saying, just have a dumb phone.

What do you think?

>> I think that wouldn't work out for most students because they wouldn't, for one, know how to use it.

And I think they wouldn't want to use it.

>> You.

I think you could learn to use a dumb phone.

>> I think you could learn.

But a lot of students don't try to learn, and I think that might be the issue.

>> Okay.

Nora, the dumbest phone possible.

Keith says, what do you think?

>> I think people could do it, but I just.

I know in recent years, people aren't memorizing phone numbers.

>> Anymore.

>> So it would be very complicated to find people's phone numbers and stuff if they weren't.

>> Okay.

Do you think you could you could make that adjustment and figure out, like, you're right, because I still remember.

>> Yeah.

>> People on my street.

Right.

Like from 30, 40 years ago.

I mean, I do, and I'm with you.

That why even memorize numbers now.

So that would be an adjustment.

But you probably could do it.

>> I don't I don't know why people don't memorize numbers.

I do, but.

>> That might just be me thing.

>> My parents have always told me they were always like, you need to memorize our phone numbers and stuff just in case of emergency.

Okay.

>> Well Eli, what do you think a dumb phone?

>> I think that it might work for some of the basic capacities of a phone, but also, you know, I've encountered issues with our school computers where they're so slow that it's easier to get work done on my phone using the same applications.

And you wouldn't be able to do that with a flip phone.

>> I mean, that is a fair point.

There are times our our tech is pretty good here at xAI, but I've literally written scripts on my phone too.

I'm with you at times.

Helena, what about a dumb phone in case of emergency?

What do you make of that?

>> I think it's a good idea.

I also have my phone.

My parents phone numbers memorized so I could call them.

And I think the dumb phone is a good idea because, like, our iPhones and smartphones are so addictive.

And so if we really need a dumb phone in case of emergency, then it serves the purpose.

But if we have the smartphones like we're still addicted to them.

>> Well, Keith, thank you.

844295 talk listeners, if you want to join the conversation as we talk to high school students about the new Bell to Bell cell phone ban in K through 12 schools in New York State, John in Pittsford writes in to ask have the students observed rigid enforcement or is there wide variation in the level to which phones are tolerated in the learning environment?

I'll start with you, Helena, on that one.

How rigidly enforced is the cell phone ban in your school?

>> Well, we don't have phone pouches, and I think it kind of depends on the day.

I know last week our administrators were cracking down and they would come to the cafeteria and take your phone.

If they saw you on it, they would also watch the cameras to see if you were on your phone.

But I haven't heard of that until last week.

>> So.

Okay.

Carter, enforcement.

>> I believe they definitely try harder to enforce it, but I think the harder they try, the more students want to rebel.

Since that's just how some people work.

>> All right.

Nora.

>> if you get caught with your phone at my school, you get written up, like, immediately, and they get your phone taken away.

>> What is written up mean?

>> Like, you get sent down to the principal's office.

>> Okay.

>> To get talked to.

And then if it happens more than once, you will get your phone taken away.

for like a week, and you have to turn it in at the office, or you'll get detention or suspension.

>> Okay.

What do you think, Eli?

>> I think the enforcement, at least at Brighton, varies a lot depending on the teacher.

I mean, there are teachers that will see a phone and say, put that away, or their teachers that will see a phone, and immediately call down to the office for an administrator.

>> okay.

Well, so we have this is so interesting because I think what we're seeing is depending on the school you're in, there are maybe different approaches and how rigid and whether students are sort of actively following or not if they're sneaking into the bathroom using the phones there.

So there's a wide range here.

And when we come back after this break of the hour, we're going to take more feedback from audience members.

And listeners are are wondering a little bit more about how our students are experiencing life without cell phones and schools without smartphones in schools?

And also how they view their own sort of screen and media usage, which it's definitely true that older adults tend to think that teenagers can't control their own screen use, when probably a lot of us can't control our own screen use.

It's not just teenagers, so we're going to talk about that.

We've got Carter Markowycz from Greece, Arcadia, Norah Kirkebye from Pittsford Sutherland High School, Eli Fybush from Brighton High School, Helena Dixon from Fairport High School.

We'll come right back on Connections.

I'm Evan Dawson.

Friday on the next Connections, we sit down with a group of local faith leaders.

Ministers and citizens who went to Minneapolis.

They wanted to go and join the protests.

They wanted to share their support.

They wanted to show solidarity.

So what did they see in Minneapolis when Ice was still surging there?

We'll talk to them about it on Friday.

>> Support for your public radio station comes from our members and from Mary Cariola, center, proud supporter of Connections with Evan Dawson.

Believing an informed and engaged community is a connected one.

Mary Cariola.

>> This is Connections.

I'm Evan Dawson all right, before I jump back to some feedback from the audience, I think we've got one sound clip I want to listen to a lot of the the work to create these cell phone bands started three years ago, when a sociologist named Jonathan Hite, who he wrote a book called The Anxious Generation, and he's written a lot about his feeling that social media is corrosive for everybody, especially for kids, that cell phones should be banned, that there has to be regulation.

He has worked hand in hand with governors in more than a dozen states himself to try to get this over the line, and he was on Real Time with Bill Maher on HBO, talking about why he thinks social media and cell phones have become so corrosive, and how we need to contextualize that.

>> But these things were designed by people who studied slot machines.

Slot machines are addictive.

These people, a lot of them, took a course at Stanford on persuasive design.

They learned how to use intermittent rewards, variable ratio reward schedules to hook people.

And they did it.

They talked about it.

We have transcripts.

We have internal reports.

They did 31 studies.

My team has found if you go to internal research org, we categorized their own studies showing that this is addictive.

They talk about it.

They use the word addiction.

And so now for these guys to say oh it's not addictive.

Well just like the tobacco industry.

And would they let their kids I don't think the tobacco industry, I don't think the tobacco guys let their kids smoke.

A lot of these guys don't let their kids use their products.

>> That's Jonathan Haidt.

So I'll go around the table first.

Eli Fybush do you think in general, social media and phones are addicting and do you feel addicted?

>> I don't feel addicted, but I think there are definitely a lot of people that are addicted.

and I think it is an issue, but I think that a band just doesn't really get to the heart of the issue.

>> Okay.

what is your typical daily usage like?

>> I mean, I mostly use my phone to talk to my friends and look things up and watch YouTube and so forth., so, I mean, I, I try to limit it, but.

>> No, I'm with you.

I am not this is not like an examination where it's like, how much are you using?

Like, I would not want to show people my stats, right?

Like I'm on it too much and that's just my own personal assessment.

So this isn't meant in judgment.

We're just trying to have a conversation on what is typical.

And so now that you're not on it during the school day, do you get home and use it more?

>> I mean, I definitely check it as soon as school is over.

But after that, I think it's about the same.

>> What app are you using the most?

>> I don't know.

>> You mentioned YouTube.

Is that possibly that?

>> Probably.

>> Okay.

so, Nora Jonathan Haidt is worried about addiction.

Says these are designed to be addictive.

Do you feel addicted?

>> I don't, but I know a couple people that are definitely addicted.

>> And what does that look like?

How do you feel?

Like, you know, they're addicted.

>> Because they're constantly checking their phone.

Like they'll put it down and just immediately pick it back up and look at it.

>> Like a nervous habit?

>> Yeah.

They're like, they're just looking.

They're just looking.

>> Even when you're in conversation.

>> Yeah.

>> Instead of being focused on you.

>> Yeah.

>> Do you call that out?

>> No.

It's not my I don't care.

>> Okay.

All right.

Okay.

but you don't feel addicted.

But now that there's a ban during the school day, do you get home and use your phone more?

>> Definitely.

Yes, I do, I know, I do.

Yeah, I think I have less time usually though, because I'm not on it at school, but.

>> Okay.

And what are you using the most?

>> I could check.

Probably.

Probably YouTube to be honest.

>> Okay.

Just looking up shorts or I mean, like, is there specific stuff?

>> I'll look up like I'm really into, like instruments and stuff, so I'll look up like videos on how to play them, to just learn how to use them.

but.

Yeah.

>> Okay.

Are you on TikTok?

>> Yes, I am.

>> Okay, but not obsessively.

Would you say no?

Okay.

>> Yeah.

My most used is actually Disney Plus.

>> Disney plus.

>> Yeah.

>> All right.

All right.

Carter.

So you heard the the social psychologist talking about addiction.

Do you feel addicted?

>> I don't feel addicted to my phone.

No.

>> Okay.

Do you know kids who you would say are probably addicted?

>> I would say there are some people I know that could be considered addicted to social media or their phone.

>> Okay.

And when you get home from school, are you using your phone more?

>> Most of the time it's about the same.

>> Okay.

is there something you use most on your phone?

>> Probably just YouTube.

Something like that.

>> Okay.

Helena Dixon do you think you are addicted to your phone?

>> absolutely.

>> Okay.

and what do you do about that?

>> I try not to use it as much as possible.

I think every Sunday, when the screen time report comes out and it's like under three hours, I'm happy.

A few weeks ago, I got my wisdom teeth out and it was five hours and I was staring at the screen like, oh my goodness.

>> Sometimes I think Helena, that's just rude to be told.

Like, I don't need to be.

>> I know.

>> I feel like I'm being scolded by my own phone.

Like, do you know your screen time report makes me feel so sad?

I'm.

>> A call out.

>> I know it is a call out.

I've been there, I've been.

I'm there like every Sunday.

I'm like, God, I don't need to know this, but I do need to know this.

It's helpful to know.

And you're feeling the same way.

So you're trying to be mindful about it.

How much do you think your friends are addicted to cell phones?

>> I think my friends are addicted.

I think we all try and we all try to not be on our phones as much as possible.

And I think if one of my friends is on their phones, we'll be like, hey, get off your phone.

Like we're having a conversation.

But I think it's definitely an issue.

And within our generation.

But I also don't think it's our generation's fault because we never were taught to how to learn or how to use our cellular devices correctly, if that makes sense.

>> Well, yeah, it makes all the sense in the world.

I mean, it would be really easy for older adults to just, you know, bash your generation as irresponsible or easily addicted.

But it's the older generations who literally created this technology are profiting from this technology, and many are addicted themselves.

I mean, how many adults in your life do you think are addicted?

I don't think it's probably just people your age.

Helena.

>> Yeah, I agree.

I think sometimes my parents will do stuff and I'm like, oh my goodness.

Like, are you Gen Z?

But yeah, I think it's definitely a problem.

>> okay, so let's grab another phone call.

Aaron and Walworth wants to jump in.

Hi, Aaron.

Go ahead.

>> Hello.

I am a millennial, so I remember life in high school before cell phones, and I certainly am completely dependent on my cell phone for organizing logistics related to work and family.

and I'm thinking about kids in high school and how they're starting to have real responsibilities.

They might have younger siblings that they might need to be the one who's home.

When the younger sibling gets home, they might have family members with chronic medical conditions.

They might have jobs after school.

there's a lot of logistics that I know.

I during my workday.

I take care of things outside of work, and I'm thinking that that would affect high school students, too.

And I remember when I was in high school, we had payphones, and a lot of that infrastructure is gone.

Now that they assume everyone has a cell phone.

So my question is really, what have school administrators done to create some kind of infrastructure for kids who have responsibilities and need to be planning for after school and need to be communicating about their responsibilities?

Have they added payphones or shared phones?

Do your parents know how to contact the school and get in touch with you?

If there's a family emergency?

I'm just wondering what changes the school has made to accommodate that.

>> That's a good question.

Eli, you want to start?

What do you think?

>> I mean, we certainly don't have payphones.

the way that the school says we should contact our parents or vice versa is through the office.

but so far, I don't know how well that's worked.

I mean, there was one time when I had a doctor's appointment and my mom forgot to tell me.

And so she called the school and said, hey, can you tell Eli that he has an appointment and needs to be signed out at this time?

And I never got the message, so.

>> Okay.

Nora.

>> my school is definitely not really done anything to help us with the phone ban at all.

Like, they just tell us, like, if you need anything, if you need to call someone, you go to the office.

But I know for a fact no one is doing that.

Like, that's just not reasonable.

I feel like.

>> Okay, Carter.

>> In my school, personally, there has always been phones in a classroom like payphones in a classroom that you could use.

>> Like landlines, landlines.

>> Yeah, yeah.

So you could always receive calls, which they've always had that.

>> Okay.

And Helena.

>> We also have phones in every classroom.

And I have called my parents before on the phones.

>> Okay.

Boy that I'm a little surprised that that's interesting.

well, Aaron, that's a really good question there.

And I see the phone ringing again.

But Aaron, I'll just jump back to you.

Anything else you want to add?

>> No.

Thanks for the answers.

>> Appreciate it.

Yeah.

I mean, really interesting to hear that there's physical phones in a lot of classrooms.

And I'm going to get back to emails and phone calls in just a moment.

We've got a panel of high school students.

They're all on February break, and they're all generous with their time to come in and talk about the new smartphone ban in in schools.

But so, Carter, you talked about this idea that you've seen students like, try to break the pouches and get to phones.

And so I want to just ask about something that I'm not fully understanding.

So help me understand a little bit.

I want to understand how this works.

Because if the idea is in some states, you can't even bring cell phones into the building.

That's a total ban in New York State.

You can't.

You got to either have them in a pouch or some.

You have to have them in a locker, but you're not supposed to access them between classes.

You're not supposed to access them at all during the school day, but they're in the building.

So students who have them, have them in the building somewhere.

In the case of an emergency, if you have them in a pouch on your person, can you not get them out of the pouch?

>> You cannot get it out of the pouch.

>> You can't.

Okay.

>> So you have to use a special magnet that can unlock it, which only security has.

>> That's why when you describe, people are breaking the pouches.

Yes, but these are well built pouches.

Magnetized.

That's only security can open.

>> Yes.

>> Okay, so it wouldn't be like, okay, it's an emergency.

Everybody open your pouches if you want.

>> Nope.

You can't open it without a magnet.

>> Okay.

Fair enough.

so on that note, then, let me read a note from Sheila who emails and says, what a great panel.

Thank you to the students for showing up and speaking to the audience a few years ago, before the ban, when student cell phone use was in class, was becoming a huge distraction, I asked my students, mostly juniors and seniors, why they were so attached to their phones.

Many of them mentioned that it was reassuring just to have it in their hands.

I would ask your students if they would accept a partial cell phone ban, where they could have their phones with them, but it would have to be an airplane mode, no camera, texting or internet until after school.

This might enable some students to listen to music and feel more secure, knowing that they have their phone with them.

As a teacher, the problem that we were seeing in schools is that the majority of fights in school were started via phone.

Many fights started because they were being filmed.

Students take pictures and videos with or without consent and post to social media.

It wasn't too long ago that our school experienced vandalism due to a TikTok challenge.

The reasons for the ban were real.

There was a joint concern about both the effectiveness of student attention spans in class and learning, along with concerns with student mental health from too much social media.

I don't think that the proponents of the ban realized that removing the cell phone from student's hands would cause anxiety.

There are some really good and valid ways to use cell phones in classrooms.

The problem is, once you have let the phone into the classroom, it's hard to put that away.

The temptation to stay on your phone is too great.

Thanks again for the students.

It's great to hear their voices.

That's Sheila Carter.

I'll let you respond first.

What do you make of that?

>> I definitely think it would be a better system than the current system, especially since there's more chaos to come out of having the ban than not having the ban.

But I still feel it doesn't fully solve everything that needs to be fixed.

>> What would be unsolved by Sheila's idea?

>> Some things, like students, may still feel the need to, like, go on their phone because maybe, like as we talked about earlier, the addiction portion, which I get, but that still is an issue there.

>> Okay, Helena, what do you make of Sheila's argument?

>> I agree with her.

I think that our phones should be in our backpacks, because that way you still have your phone on your person.

And I think locking phones up in pouches is not the best solution to the problem.

So, yes, I agree with her.

>> Okay.

Nora, what do you think?

>> I actually really like what Sheila said.

I think that was like.

It was like a good thought.

>> A good, good compromise.

>> Yeah, I yeah, I think a lot of people would benefit from that.

Like last year, I used to keep my phone on my desk.

I wouldn't use it.

I would keep it face down.

It was on Do Not Disturb.

I just liked having it there, I guess.

>> Okay.

Eli, what do you think?

>> I think it would be a good compromise.

I mean, I don't know how you would enforce it, but in theory, I think it sounds definitely better than the current ban.

And more thought out.

>> Sheila, thank you for that email.

let me grab another phone call here.

And this is Michelle in Canandaigua.

Hey, Michelle, go ahead.

>> Hi.

Thank you.

And thanks for the students for being on.

Sheila said.

I was just wondering, we've heard a lot about the social emotional side of not having the phones, but I think a lot of the band is also so students would focus more on academics.

So I was wondering if the students think that they are more engaged, less engaged, just as engaged, or their peers as well and focused on their academics as before the band, and I'll take it off the air.

>> Yeah, really good question.

So has it affected your academics in any way?

>> Carter Markowycz personally, for me it hasn't, but only because it's been in effect since I was in middle school, so I haven't seen any change.

>> You're more used to it for you.

Okay.

Nora, has it affected your academics?

>> yeah, I think so a little bit.

My grades haven't been the best, but it might just be because I'm taking harder classes.

But it might also be because I can't listen to music.

But I don't know.

I, I don't know, >> Okay, but you don't think it's helped your academics?

>> No.

>> Okay.

Eli Fybush.

>> I don't think that it's particularly helped my academics because, I mean, in class, I certainly never had my phone out to begin with.

and so I haven't really noticed a difference academics wise.

>> Okay.

Helena Dixon.

Has it affected your academics?

>> I think it has a little bit.

I think some of the more relaxed teachers who let you have their phone.

Last year, I think my grades were definitely worse in those classes.

And I think this year it's just nice to not even see my phone like so.

Yes.

>> Yeah.

I think related to the phone call from Michelle and Canandaigua is an assumption that some have perhaps well founded.

I don't know that part of the problem is attention spans and ability to focus for longer durations.

And I had an email from a listener asking if students are are reading books.

So I I'll just ask here.

I'll go around the table.

Carter, do your classes make you read full books?

Start to finish?

Do you have classes that require full books for reading.

>> In English?

Yes.

>> Okay.

So you're not just reading sections or chapters.

You'd have to read full books.

>> No, it's it's mainly like read this section.

Read this section over the course of like about a month or so.

>> But you're not assigned full books.

>> Not at a time.

No.

>> Okay.

And you're a freshman in high school.

do you read books for pleasure?

>> Yes.

>> Okay.

often?

>> Yes.

Very often.

>> Okay.

Nora, are you assigned full books in your classes?

>> What do you mean by that?

>> As in, like when I was growing up, we would be reading.

We'd have a reading list.

We'd be reading you know, The Grapes of Wrath.

Gotta read it cover to cover.

And then you're going to be tested on it.

You're going to be quizzed on the full book.

Now, one of the things I'm seeing schools do is say instead of assigning you a full book, we're going to read a section or an abridged version or just a chapter or an article, as opposed to like a 300 page book.

>> Well we usually do like they'll give us books and then they'll assign chapters for each night, but you end up finishing the entire book.

>> So you are reading full books.

Okay.

Do you read books for pleasure?

>> Yes.

>> Okay.

Eli, same questions.

>> we do get assigned full books in English class.

I mean, the usual Great Gatsby and To Kill a mockingbird.

and I, I read plenty for pleasure, but I don't know how many other people do, and I certainly haven't noticed more people reading.

>> So you think you read more than your peers?

>> I would think so.

>> Okay.

What's the last book you read?

>> Last one I read is right now I'm reading one on streamlined Art Deco trains.

>> Okay, I want your life.

That's.

I love that Helena Dixon.

I just find that very interesting.

Helena Dixon.

are you reading full books as an assignment?

As assignment?

And are you reading books on your own?

>> We do read books for assignments, but we also read segments of books.

So there's a mix of both.

And I do read for pleasure.

Right now I'm reading Huckleberry Finn.

So then I can read James.

>> Okay here's another comment from a parent who says my concern as a parent is that these kids will very soon be off on their own in college, and if they don't get a chance to learn responsible device use now, how will they how will they be prepared for a world in which so much is device based?

It's a real world skill that I'd rather they get to learn instead of being kept sheltered from that.

Eli, that sounds a I think that dovetails with some of what you've been saying.

You think it's important that you not be kind of kept in the dark about using devices?

It's a device world we're in now.

Would you agree with that?

>> I would I think it is definitely important to learn, you know, proper usage of the internet because it is an extremely valuable tool.

and I think that just, you know, I know that people in college certainly don't care about, you know, a phone ban or I mean, there are no phone bans.

And they certainly don't, you know, enforce having your phone out.

>> I think some do now.

I don't know for sure.

I think we're starting to see more.

>> But I mean, I think in college I mean, from what I've heard like from my sister, she's in college I've heard a lot more that they, you know, they use phones a lot more to their benefit rather than trying to keep people in the dark.

And, I mean, once you're in college, you are an adult.

And, you know, you have to be taught proper usage, not just don't use it.

>> Not just full abstinence.

Yeah.

Nora, how do you develop an appropriate tech use that's going to be sustainable as you move into adulthood?

>> I think that's just something that you like.

You learn with trial and error.

It's not really something that you're taught.

Like, you just have to learn how much time you're spending.

You have to be responsible with yourself and know what's good and what's not.

>> On the flip side, what about the argument that says, if you go that route and you end up addicted and awash in cell phone use, that's going to be a hard habit to break when you need to.

>> Okay.

>> You don't think so?

>> I mean, yeah, it's an addiction, but there's ways you could have prevented that if you just got off your phone.

>> Okay.

Carter what do you think about developing an appropriate use of of technology?

>> I believe it's definitely important, but I don't think, like, just completely not using your phone or device is a good way to learn that, because then you want to use it more by, like, not being able to use it.

And it's it just keeps building up until eventually you're addicted.

>> Helena, what do you think about that?

>> I think I agree.

I think maybe there could be classes about like the terrible effects that being addicted to your phone has on you and social media.

I think the cell phone ban sort of sets you up in a sense, like as a freshman in middle school to not be addicted to your phone in the first place.

I think for upperclassmen or even lower classmen, it might be hard if you're already addicted to your phone.

And then we have the cell phone ban.

But if you're never addicted to your phone in the first place, we'd never have this problem.

>> Well, let me just read a little bit more feedback before we lose the hour.

Here's a parent who doesn't like the ban.

Kathleen says I've got two teenage daughters in public high school.

They don't participate in social media maybe as much as their peers.

The smartphone ban is just an inconvenience for them.

They would use their phones to communicate with me about after school plans, or look up academic information during the school day prior to the ban.

They have, though, noted several substitute teachers recently who were excessively staring at their smartphones during class time, which was more noticeable to the kids now that there's a ban.

I'm not a fan of this ban, and I disagree with it as a solution.

That is from Kathleen and Dorothy says regarding cell phones, how does it feel to be the generation that is guinea pigs for big Tech to see how their products influence your habits?

Their goal is click through and consumerism.

Do you think using less phones can affect your buying habits?

Helena, what do you think of that?

>> I think using less phones might help.

Your eye might help you spend less.

as for the negativity on the cell phone plan, I understand, like texting about after school plans.

I used to do that all the time.

now it's sort of annoying to email my mom, but I have done it before.

>> Eli, do you feel like you're a guinea pig for the tech companies?

>> A little bit but I certainly feel more like a guinea pig for the, you know, the state government to see how the cell phone ban acts out.

>> Well, just briefly positive or negative view of Mark Zuckerberg, Eli.

>> Negative.

>> Okay.

Nora.

>> Negative.

>> Negative.

Carter.

>> Negative.

>> And Helena.

>> Negative.

>> I don't know, nobody likes the guy.

>> It's interesting.

I mean, and that's just one of them.

I mean, like, we could I mean, I could do Elon Musk if you want.

I mean, we could just go down the list.

I got a feeling it's going to be largely the same last one.

Just briefly, Evie says, what if teachers plan lessons that incorporate appropriate phone usage?

Nora, what do you think?

>> say it again.

>> What if teachers plan lessons that incorporate appropriate phone usage that so help students learn how to use technology appropriately?

Would that be valuable?

>> I think that would.

I know that my freshman year we learned how to use Wikipedia because originally they were like, no, don't use Wikipedia.

It's not because other people can access it and change it, right?

But it's actually a really good source.

Currently.

>> And you got lessons in how to make sure you're using it.

>> Yeah.

And we also got lessons on how to like how to find sources and if they're credible and stuff.

And I think that would be good.

Like the same thing for phones and stuff.

>> Hey, we couldn't even get through all the emails.

A lot of great feedback.

And I just want to once again salute our students for being willing to take the time and speak publicly about this.

I know there's a lot of tension and a lot of debate about it, and let me thank them now.

Helena Dixon, a senior at Fairport High School, who's on the road.

Thank you for being on the program with us today and for making time.

Helena.

>> Thank you.

>> Eli Fybush senior Brighton High School, thank you for being with us.

Thank you.

Norah Kirkebye a junior at Pittsford Sutherland High School you for being here.

Thank you.

And Carter Markowycz a freshman at Greece Arcadia.

Thank you.

Thank you from all of us.

Thank you for watching.

Thanks for listening.

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