From WXXI news.

This is Connections.

I'm Evan Dawson.

Well, our connection this hour is made in the lasting legacy of American icon Dolly Parton.

The world lost Dolly this week.

She died of cancer at the age of 80.

Her passing achieved something that has lately seemed impossible at United People on the far end of even American politics.

Just minutes apart, President Donald Trump and the Democratic Socialists of America posted their admiration for Dolly Parton.

Clearly, she transcended politics and was a symbol of goodness, kindness, I think, to people of myriad backgrounds and beliefs.

So how did she do it?

And and why is her passing so particularly painful?

It feels visceral in a way that a lot of celebrity passings do not.

This hour we remember Dolly Parton, the music superstar, actress, businesswoman, philanthropist.

A couple of guests in studio to start the hour and they are both Hannahs.

My colleague Hannah Maier, music director of The Root, of course.

And if you see Hannah on stage, she's Candy on stage, Candy and, well, a band of Candy.

But Candy is the persona.

Nice to see you as Hannah.

Hi oven, thanks so much for having both Candy and Hannah on today.

And you are?

Is this a, For those watching on YouTube, you've got some, I think a tribute outfit here.

I do, I had to wear a Western shirt, obviously, because we're talking Dolly, but I think this shirt is a it's a little Hannah.

It's a little Candy.

Candy is more, pinks, whites, reds.

Really, really bright colors, varied.

Dolly on stage.

I love the bright colors, the rhinestones.

But I could wear this on an everyday occasion looking country.

Well, we're going to talk about, some local performances coming up.

And, you know, for Hannah, I should say for Hannah Maier, I did.

We we saw how hard it hit you in the news broke on Tuesday about Dolly Parton.

Yeah, that was really, really tough.

A lot of people reached out to me and I was on the air, actually, while it was happening, which made it even more difficult because then I just started playing songs and immediately played I Will Always Love You and just started crying.

It it's it's really sad when you lose somebody that inspires you.

Obviously I didn't know her personally and I'm not a family member of her, so I can't even imagine what her close friends and family would have been feeling.

But she is somebody, as you said, that just brings everybody together.

I mean, I don't think she's rubbed really anybody the wrong way her entire career.

So just a true national treasure and a huge loss for, for everyone.

Hannah Davis talked to us six years ago, a Dolly Parton fan, executive director of Flower City Folk.

And last time we talked to you about Dolly Parton, it was a different era.

It was right at the beginning of Covid.

And, and here we are now with Dolly's passing.

How did it hit you this week?

Not.

Well, I'll.

I'll say that much.

I was at work when I got the news, so I. You know, I kept it and I'm, you know, am not on the radio.

So fortunately, I kept my mouth shut for a little while, but yeah, I wept.

I went home and wept on the sofa with my little dog.

And, I think a lot of us did roughly the same.

It feels very much like losing someone near and dear to you in some way.

I've never really reacted like that to a celebrity.

So that's what I wanted to ask you, is, I mean, like, there are celebrity deaths, sadly.

I mean, there's death all the time.

Often we lose celebrities.

You know, Tim Curry passed this week and like, you know, I mean, my favorite movie of all time is clue.

And I was I was kind of like, you know, and I didn't cry.

I know, but the Daily News felt this way.

Felt different.

Why do you think it was different?

Same thing.

You know, I love Tim Curry.

Funny guy.

I, I'm sure we'd have.

We'd enjoy a sherry or something together, even theoretically.

But, Dolly, was loving and gracious and kind to everyone.

And I think that resonated with, so many people for so many different reasons.

I think it's probably true that she it hasn't rubbed a whole lot of people the wrong way because she led her life, so graciously.

And I think that's affirmative.

And it feels good for people.

And you can't say that about a lot of celebrities.

We don't get to know them in that kind of candid, funny way.

Well, that's true.

And Hannah gets a Hannah mare.

There's two Hannah's.

This is going to be hard.

I'm going to Hannah mare gets a chance to interview a lot of people in the music business.

And so you get a little bit of an up close look.

Although to your point, I mean, do we really ever know anybody?

The reason I bring this up is, you know, Hannah Davis is saying this hurts because of the nature of Dolly Parton.

Sold the kindness of the person.

And yet we're always admonished, look, you don't really know somebody.

You don't.

But Dolly felt like we did.

What was different about Dolly that made us feel like this was genuine?

Why did this feel like this wasn't, you know, just an act?

I think it's because of the way that she portrays herself.

I mean, when she is on stage in the interviews that we've all seen from her and just her overall presence throughout her entire career, she was genuinely herself and doing it in the face of adversity constantly.

People were dogging on her from day one to the way that she dressed, in the way that she looked, and she always just held her ground and held herself with grace and humility and was laughing about it, almost like I love seeing interviews of her where people are straight up calling her horrible things, like saying that she dresses in a like bad way for a woman and her just being like, well, cool.

That's exactly what I want to dress like.

So thanks for noticing.

And I love I love that because she's just genuinely herself.

I thought this was summed up pretty well by any Joy Williams, a journalist who wrote a tribute to Dolly this week titled The Most Beautiful Woman.

And I'm going to quote from that now.

She writes, quote, when Dolly's identity didn't match the plans pop culture had for her, she chose her roots and she was rewarded every time.

Even her look was defiantly southern.

A 1991 issue of Vanity Fair described Dolly Parton as every downhome virtue wrapped up in a sizzling blond bombshell.

That's the thing that drew me to Dolly all those years ago.

She seemed to be the only woman in the South who could present as so sexy and also be read as so wholesome.

Most women who wore daisy dukes were whispered about in church pews and grocery lines.

But Dolly wasn't just loved.

In spite of it, she was lauded for it.

Her self-described backwoods Barbie persona also the name of one of her songs, inspired generations of women who might be cast out as trailer trash to lean into their interpretation of beauty.

So read into it what you will but see me as I am.

The way I look is just a country girl's idea of glam.

The song goes end quote last both you about what do you make of of that passage with Andy Joyce saying that in so many ways she was able to do the wholesome and sexy thing, and it wasn't a contradiction to people.

I think she did that.

That's exactly what I was trying to say before you said the quote there.

Like, she did that so perfectly because she wasn't somebody that was, you know, there wasn't tabloids about her hooking up with random celebrities.

She was married to the same person her whole life, faithful to Carl.

And he was a very private person.

So we didn't see her, like parading around town and going on dates, you know, tabloids capturing her dating whoever or whatever like that.

She she had that, those Christian values that, that she grew up with, where she was just probably just a regular woman at home with her husband, just a wife to him and a partner to him, but also the way that she dressed.

I think a lot of people were thinking that that would contradict it.

But she could wear both hats in the most beautiful way, where she could dress a little trashy.

But that's everyone knew that that's not who she was, and that's not how her personality was.

What do you think, Hannah Davis I yeah, I think a lot of things I think she was a proud homebody, which, kind of, I know she was a proud homebody.

It was a core part of her, kind of personality.

Right?

She was a devoted wife.

Right.

And I think these things do kind of balance each other out in some way, at least from a public perspective, which clearly did her some favors.

I'm obsessed with the way she looks.

That's my immediate reaction to this.

I love it.

It's a big camp, fun performance for us all.

She is expressing herself.

She is proud to be, quote, a dumb blond, right?

There's an early song, I think, 1967, that she didn't write, but she did record.

Then the refrain is, that she's, you know, she's a dumb blond, but she ain't nobody's fool.

So, you know, I think she reveled in portraying something like a dumb blond who was also not anybody's fool.

Right?

She demonstrated every day that she could do both things all the time and confirmed that the rest of us could do both things all the time if we wanted to, to.

I found watching the old to old watching interviews over the years with her, even the people who thought they could sort of get her were never able to get her.

And so there's a clip where it's after the Justin Timberlake, Janet Jackson's Super Bowl, wardrobe malfunction.

Oh, we'll never forget it.

And and Dolly Parton is saying, you know, they've asked me if I'm going to have a wardrobe malfunction, and I'm going to try not to, but if I do, it's going to wipe out the first 3 or 4 rows.

You know, she she's she's ascending up her own, you know, sort of stereotype.

But yet it comes off as endearing.

She was able to do that and be endearing in 1977.

She does this Barbara Walters interview.

Dolly was 31 years old.

She now she's on this rocket ship to fame.

And Barbara Walters, I think, thought that she could kind of pin her down and admit that, like, hey, you know, at one point, Barbara Walters asked Dolly Parton, like, do you think of yourself as a joke because, you know, because of your chest and your wigs, your hair, the rhinestones, all the stuff that's so outsized about you?

You know, maybe people won't take you seriously.

Maybe you are a joke.

And.

And Dolly just had this preternaturally gifted way of responding to someone where everyone at home.

Or at least I'm watching this now, going like.

Like Barbara, like, what are you doing?

Like, this is an icon.

But Dolly was so calm.

She was so kind.

And the response and so she never rose to the bait.

So I guess I'm just impressed with how she pulled it off.

And I watched that Barbara Walters interview now, and I go, oh, that just makes Barbara look bad.

That does not make Dolly look bad.

I mean, have you seen that?

Have you seen the interview?

I should have grabbed a clip here.

I have not, it's enraging.

Yeah, I, I have not seen that clip.

And, maybe I'll watch it, maybe I won't, but I think it's interesting to hear her ask her if she thought it was a joke.

Because performers since the beginning of time have been dressing up in crazy outfits.

I mean, I'm talking powdered wigs, painted faces.

Everybody has been doing that as far as humanity has existed for performance reasons.

So what makes it so different if she does it?

You know what I'm saying?

And I think, like with my band, I try to do that with my band as well.

I'm not going to go on stage without a full face of makeup and a very well curated outfit.

My hair is completely done.

I'm wearing false eyelashes.

Like that is something that I want to portray as a musician, and I think a lot of artists want to do the same, you know, when you go on.

And that's another reason why I chose Candy as a persona, because when you go on stage, you're not you're you don't.

I mean, it's great to be yourself and we are all bringing ourselves on stage, but people go there for a show.

People go there to see something that they don't have at home, something that maybe they don't think that they can do or that they're not interested in doing.

They want to see that next, next level up of a performance.

And Dolly, I mean, she had that down she used, she's the master of that.

I think that's so well said.

You did see the Barbara Walters interview.

I've seen it for better or worse.

Yeah, and I know that I saw it, you know, early on, too, in my life.

This was not recent.

I've seen it many times.

I think I probably first saw it when I was in high school or something.

So I remember this, and I think it is kind of in the canon of Dolly interview content, isn't it?

Yeah, exactly.

What you said is right at Barbara Walters is the one who comes off as a fool, right?

Dolly knows exactly what she's doing.

She's kind of calculating in some way.

I'm kind of entranced by her, just unbelievable ability to, as you said, not rise to the occasion, but really pick the right words.

She steps carefully, and she knows who she is.

She's very self-assured, very confident.

And she, in that particular interview, I'm thinking now, you know, she's almost demonstrating this level of media training that I think is hard to come by.

And I don't know what that is.

I don't think you can really train that level of grace and candor.

But it is something like very slick media training.

But she's just that good.

Well, you said self-assured.

And when I watched the interviews with her, particularly that one with Barbara Walters, I see someone who does not have a whole lot of insecurity now.

Every human being alive has some insecurity in some ways, and some of us are consumed by it at times.

She just struck me almost always as saying, like, I am good with who I am.

If you are not good with who I am, that's okay.

That's on you.

I am good with it.

You're not going to make me not good with it.

Like I'm not insecure about who I am.

I'm not insecure with the wigs.

I'm not insecure with the look.

I like the look.

I'm having fun with it.

If you don't like it, that's fine.

You don't have to like it.

But it's not going to make me not like myself.

And that's how I took that reaction, that interview, when at least in modern media, you know, there would be a we need a tick tock response.

And we need, you know, we need a clap back video.

Actually, I'm kind of glad died from not a time of all that stuff because it's like, no, you don't need that.

You actually don't.

You don't need to clap back.

You don't need to.

You get down in the mud with somebody.

You can just be good with who you are.

But that's not easy to be.

Yeah.

And you know, you're someone can a mayor who performs on stage.

In fact, you've only got you got a show tonight I do yeah.

Oh you done it.

Inspire more winery tonight I am in Naples.

Yes, Kandy.

Is it inspired more winery tonight?

Probably going to do a little bit of Dolly tonight.

Oh for sure.

Yeah.

We've got two.

And then Candi does Dolly tomorrow at Abilene.

Yes, yes.

So this is the second year that we've done the Dolly Parton tribute and we've been planning it all year.

So it was just crazy timing that Dolly passed just a couple of days ago.

And now we're playing the show tomorrow in Abilene.

And that was pre-planned.

That was pre-planned.

And I mean, people knew she might have been sick, but this did hit quick and hard.

It did.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think we all thought maybe she was getting sick or something wasn't quite right, you know, because she was canceling shows and not playing out and, staying really, really private.

But I don't think anybody expected her to pass so soon.

Yeah, yeah.

So.

So tonight and inspire more, Hannah Maier and Candy and you can see Candy's performance and and inspire more tonight.

Tomorrow.

Candy does Dolly at Abilene starting at 7:00.

And, you know, to that point about insecurity, you know, when you're performing, I'll, I think I'll just say it here.

I mean, people can be cruel.

People can be cruel about the way, especially about the way women look, you've heard it all.

Even, you know, you're going to have particularly men, but not always men who are going to be judging, you know, is that you're too low cut.

Is that low cut enough?

Like, you can never win with that.

Like, should you be wearing a wig, you know, are you not being yourself?

Do you look trashy?

Do.

And Dolly was good with how she was.

How do you deal with some of the slings and arrows that come with when you have a big presentation?

I, much like Dolly, have always been fine with who I am.

This is who I am through and through.

I'm going to dress the way that I want to dress because it makes me feel good.

I'm going to wear makeup when I want to wear makeup because it makes me feel good.

I'm going to perform the way that I want to perform because I love doing it, and I bring it to the stage whenever I play, I, I honestly would, that's the place I want to be more than anywhere is up on stage performing.

So getting the opportunity to do that at any point is amazing.

And I'm just going to be myself.

And I've heard plenty of comments.

You know, you have too much makeup on.

And then I also heard recently you don't have enough makeup on, which I thought was an interesting comment.

But and comments on my outfits and whatnot.

And you just have to let it roll off.

You're like a grain of salt, and that is hard to do.

It is hard.

Well, let me grab a phone call from Stephanie in Rochester on the subject of Dolly Parton.

Go ahead.

Stephanie.

Hi, Evan.

I just wanted to say that, I think part of the immense amount of grief that Americans are, experiencing from losing.

I think we lost the call.

Oh, we lost the call entirely.

Stephanie, if, you know, we the call dropped entirely to call back here.

If you could.

Stephanie, we'll be glad to have you finish the thought.

Let me read a few emails.

Stephen Webster says.

And I think that people loved Dolly because she had a unique combination of kindness, humility, humor, and love for everyone.

Her generosity should be an example for wealthy people everywhere.

Amen.

Yeah, that's a really good last point there.

And in a moment where we're going to bring in Doctor Matt Present, who is the founder emeritus of the Rochester chapter of Dolly Parton's Imagination Library, which has been an amazing thing for families and kids for years and years.

So we'll talk about that in just a moment.

But Stephen Webster, great point, and I really appreciate you bringing that.

Let me, let me get back to Stephanie's call, who I think is back there.

Go ahead.

Stephanie, continue the thought.

Yeah, sorry about that.

I was just saying that I, I think one of the things that is so immensely, you know, powerful and, and, and hurtful in terms of Dolly Parton, is that, she, she modeled what kind of philanthropy and care and, and, the power of celebrity for good could be.

I mean, she could have been a billionaire.

And she she didn't.

She used that money.

She used her power.

She used her voice for, all of these literacy program for, things to, you know, build up communities and, she she just modeled what we we don't see much in the way of that kind of, celebrity and philanthropy and just and just inherent goodness, and the rest of the billionaire class that we have.

And so it's so hard to lose one of the good ones, the when it is possible for many other billionaires to do the same thing.

And they don't.

Let me ask you something about that, Stephanie, because I've got a couple of emails to this effect, and then I have our panel in studio weigh in on this, too.

Here, let me just ask you directly, Stephanie, do you wish that she had been more political in her life?

No, not necessarily because I think her she was political in her own way.

And she she stated how she felt.

You know, she talked about Black Lives Matter and, you know, just as much as our little white assets matter.

She talked a lot about having, you know, trans and, other members of the LGBTQ community within her family and her strong belief that, you know, God loves everybody and that we should love everybody and that people should be allowed to be who they are.

I mean, she she didn't need to use anything but her own authentic voice.

And I think the fact that she used her authentic voice and, and said what she said and how, you know, stood by that was more powerful than necessarily getting even more political and, and possibly shutting down connections with other people who needed to hear that message.

She was in so many ways the great.

So her openness in this country, you know, that she would plant seeds that she I think she probably knew that she wouldn't necessarily see them come into fruition.

She would not live to see that plant come to life.

In terms of children, you know, having books and reading up until five and, and having that.

We lost you again, Stephanie.

But let me just jump in there and say, first of all, thank you for the for sharing your thoughts.

And, you know, Stephanie is feeling Hannah and Hannah.

Is that, that in her own way, Dolly Parton was political without being a campaigner and overt Partizan.

Maybe the only Dolly criticism I've seen since her passing has been the true anti-vaccine crowd, who's very upset that she turned Jolene into vaccine.

You know, during the Covid era, she put out a she kind of single vaccine vaccine, you know, and it's like, I think that was actually not a political thing in the moment.

It was the Trump administration's, initiative to bring that vaccine to bear.

It wasn't meant to be political.

It's become sort of political now.

But Stephanie saying no, like, you shouldn't have to be overtly Partizan.

I'm good.

Like, how do you see it?

Hannah?

Hannah I think that that worked in her favor her whole career.

You know what?

She I'm sure she had her beliefs and her stances in her own personal space.

Yeah, but to.

That's a really hard thing to do.

To be so open to all sides and have far writers, far left and everyone in between love the same person.

Who else is doing that?

I mean, very few.

Right, exactly.

And that's bringing people together.

And it's bringing ideologies together as well, to a point where we can all agree, hey, we love Dolly, we love her music.

Maybe there's other things that we have in common.

And the way that she toed that line was so graceful.

And I think a really, truly an amazing thing that I'm hoping we can get from more celebrities and for more people of her financial stature.

Hannah Davis, what do you think?

Yeah, I think, I think everything is political.

So I would argue that, she was in fact quite political.

I think she was incredibly political in her own way.

She was not Partizan, right.

She was a nonpartisan, celebrity.

And I think that's exactly right.

That's why she could have been a billionaire.

Right.

I think she did that expertly.

She made a whole lot of money by, not, you know, being vocally in favor of any, any politician, period.

But her, her work is political in a lot of senses.

Her or some she has some pretty divisive kind of early songs in her career.

Later, too, you know, she and the vaccine stuff was incredibly divisive, and that was kind of made to be political.

I'm thinking of her advocacy for gay rights in a time when celebrities.

Absolutely.

You know, we're we're kind of biting their tongue.

There was a tabloid scandal, and I think 1992, she had a trans driver that she employed for 30 years, and it kind of came to light that he was a trans man.

You know, making those kind of hiring decisions sticking up for people.

That's political.

Right.

I think her politics are emblematic of where she came from.

They remind me of a lot of, like, I think I would be comfortable kind of describing as an Appalachian kind of approach to the world where, no, it's not Partizan, but you look out for your people.

And you fight fiercely for what you know, to be good and right.

Was 9 to 5 political a little bit?

Right.

Yeah.

I mean, like, you mean it's pretty obviously it's hard.

It's for me, it's hard to separate politics from her work and who she was.

Well, Charles writes to say, I'm pretty sure the message remains.

Shut up and dribble.

Dolly did what she thought was right, yet at no point did she lecture or state her opinion as if it were a fact, or give anyone a reason to dislike or think less of her.

She was a talented woman who took on causes near and dear to her heart without being condescending.

That's the only thing celebrities are qualified to do.

Yet it seems to be a concept lost on many.

That's from Charles the Shut up and dribble line.

That's Laura Ingraham talking about LeBron James.

Yep.

And and it's interesting to think about the basketball analogy.

So Michael Jordan famously said, well, Republicans buy sneakers too when he was told you got to be more political.

And he was basically saying, I'd like to be a billionaire and Republicans buy shoes.

I'm not going to offend them.

Dolly was different to me than that.

I don't know what Michael Jordan stands for in his life, other than he's a great athlete and he tried to build a business empire.

Dolly Parton I feel like I do know more about what you do to everything Hannah and Hannah been talking about.

There is a lot of her own values in her songs and her movies and her work and her writing and her public comments.

So I think you can do you can take the Jordan approach that says, look, I'm not going to tell you how to vote, and I'm not going to campaign for you.

But you can also say, I am going to tell you what I how I see the world.

And that may offend some people but I'll still do that.

Yeah.

Dolly Tammy was more the latter.

Yeah.

I mean that's a smart business move right.

Where you're not taking those hard stances.

You're not going out and saying and grabbing a microphone and saying, this is who I'm voting for.

This is my political party.

But toeing the line and like to make the Michael Jordan quote, getting money from all of these people that are buying your products.

And then the way she used that money was what was important.

She put it towards organizations that do good in the world.

She hired people that needed to be hired, and she did the right thing without having to just go out there and be like, this is my political stance, you know what I mean?

Absolutely.

Well, as we go to break, we're going to bring on, a gentleman I think knows a lot about the impact of this philanthropic, philanthropic work that Dolly Parton has done on the other side of this break.

And as we go to break, I got to ask you a question, Hannah mayor.

Okay.

Did you bring any wigs?

Dan writes in to say one of my favorite quotes, one of my favorite Dolly quotes was when she was asked, how long does it take to do your hair?

Dolly said, I don't know.

I'm not there when it's done.

So we didn't see much of Dolly's actual hair in her adulthood.

We saw wigs and wow, Hannah dyes Candy.

Here I am every ladies and gentlemen, a wig is here.

If you're watching on YouTube.

There it is.

It's not on properly, but I do have it.

I brought it, in hopes that we could possibly get it on even before the is over.

So I'm going to work on that now.

I resisted at first, but you said that famously.

Dolly Parton had Johnny Carson put on one of her wigs, I think.

Yeah, this Carson right.

I you know, it.

Don't quote me on that.

Give it to me.

Oh, yes, I think I think you're right.

Dolly had a lot of affection for Johnny Carson.

It's clean.

That was the first time I ever put it on.

Well, I don't even know how to do this.

Is this a connection?

First, I think I think it might be okay.

It's probably easier for a bald man on a wig.

Yeah, phones are coming out.

Okay, we're getting it.

This is.

Oh, my God, do numbers never look better?

Ladies and gentlemen, if you're not watching on YouTube, don't.

Browse.

Probably.

Wow, this is amazing.

I feel like I should have rhinestones on.

Right.

You feel good, right?

Howard?

I'm missing some ranch.

It's getting in my eye.

I don't think I have this on correctly.

I'm going to join the club.

I'm gonna let Hannah and Candy and Dolly be the wig.

But thank you.

I'm a good sportsman.

And when we come back, we're going to talk more about, What has made this such a hard loss to the country?

With the loss of Dolly Parton, we'll come right back on Connections.

Coming up in our second hour, we wrap up a week, a week of conversations.

Easy for me to say with astrophysicist Adam Frank in The Connection summer sessions, we've been learning from doctor Frank about a number of concepts, and this time it's a number.

The odds, the number, the statistical likelihood that we are alone in the universe.

Adam Frank reworked the 1961 Drake Equation, and he's going to break it down for us next hour.

Support for your public radio station comes from our members and from Mary Carolla Center.

Proud supporter of Connections with Evan Dawson, believing and informed and engaged community is a connected one.

Mary carolla.org.

This is Connections.

I'm Evan Dawson.

Sandy on YouTube says thank you for having this program.

Evan.

I am one of the fans who admired Dolly Parton immensely.

Now, Sandy said that on YouTube before she saw me put the wig on, so I'm not sure she's just as grateful for this program.

We've got Hannah Maier, my colleague from the roots and lead singer and guitarist of the country band Candy with us, and she did bring that wig and it does look fabulous.

It looks fabulous.

I thought you looked great in it.

And I'm going to ask you to, you know, I feel like you could wear it.

You could wear that every day and everyone would probably be love it.

Yeah.

I don't know about that.

Hannah Davis is Dolly Parton fan, executive director of Flower City Folk.

And let me bring in Doctor Matt Present, Matt's founder emeritus of the Rochester chapter of Dolly Parton's Imagination Library and an assistant professor of pediatrics at u r medicine.

Matt, welcome back to the program.

How are you, sir?

Evan, good to see you.

Thanks for having me.

How did the news hit you this week?

Matt?

So I was, taking care of some patients at the hospital, and all of a sudden, my phone started blowing up, and, you know, my my first reaction there was, Oh, gosh.

Is is it going okay?

And then I looked at my phone.

I turned 40 this year, and I had probably five times as many text messages and phone calls from folks.

Sending their condolences, about the passing of Dolly, which I think speaks to, the immediate impact of her loss.

And, how widely and deeply that was felt.

So, you know, I, I've been reflecting a lot, as you guys have, and I think it's been so sad, but it's been so celebratory in a lot of ways.

It's been a real opportunity to take stock of, to kind of the archetypal American.

Right.

And she really died as she lived.

She's oriented everybody's attention towards things like the Imagination Library.

And she's figured out a way to bring people together even in her absence.

And it's it's extraordinary.

And it's an encapsulation of, I think, a playbook on how to, live a life.

Well, I think to that point to match point, I, we noticed that Hannah had some tears on Tuesday, but now, you know, as to Matt's point, I think there was that initial wave of sadness because you have to take in the idea that we're not going to get anything more new or more on this earth from Dolly Parton, that her whole story has now been told.

As far as we will know, it.

And that is sad.

But then once you can absorb that and really think about it, there's a lot of joy and a lot of lot to celebrate about her.

Is that how you're feeling now?

A few days later?

Hannah it is.

And honestly, there is also something that she did before she passed away that is extending her legacy.

She recorded a ton of songs, unreleased songs, just her vocals, and she I don't remember who she gave them to, but somebody has them and she said in in her will that after she passed, she wants those to be released.

So there is still more Dolly music that is yet to be released.

I have read Hannah Davies, do you know, think about this.

I have read that it's going to be released like slowly or 20 years after it passed something.

It's like, how about we do it now?

Okay.

Yeah, maybe just one year.

Yeah.

I mean, what do you think?

Yeah, I mean, we I think we spoke about that, during the previous Dolly show in 2020, or partially at least.

Like, I love the idea.

It's so smart.

No, I want it now.

I don't want 20, 46.

I know when we're all fuzed with machines.

Yeah, there's a song in a in a time capsule at Dollywood, apparently to, which I think is supposed to come out in 2048 or something.

So I think we just have to be patient.

I, you know, I think that's another kind of clever move, right?

She knew she wasn't gonna, you know, be around in 2048 or 2046.

That should have been a year 2046.

She would have been one.

That's right.

Thank you.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You know, she she knows but her you know, her memory's powerful thing.

Right.

And she's such a characterful person who has done so much good in the world, that we'll keep getting bits of Dolly here and there for ever.

I keep thinking about her kind of local impact.

I'm very lucky to have my.

My best friend from East Tennessee who is has studied Dolly professionally.

So I, I've gotten this kind of peek into East Tennessee, thoughts and feelings about Dolly and the the photos of memorials and events and things that are being held in her memory, the murals that suddenly have lines of visitors, the stories that people are telling about bumping into her, doing everyday kind of thing, seeing her in parades, you know, these minute kind of interactions at a local level, are indicative of this much larger figure.

Right?

What she did at home was incredible.

But we all know Dolly.

She's an international superstar and always will be.

And I think those kind of crumbs will sustain us.

Well, I hope one of the things that's been interesting to me, Doctor Matt, is that I kind of figured why right knows about imagination Library.

I know Dolly is the book lady, but not everybody did.

And this is a story that, you know, in her passing.

Now, to kind of honor the the points that were just made.

Let's celebrate that for a moment.

So if you don't know this story, Matt, what's the story?

The Imagination Library, and how did you get involved, sir?

Yes, the Imagination Library's been around now for about 30 years.

I think it initially was just kind of a a way in which Dolly was trying to make a difference in her, in her home region.

So, she and her team came up with this idea in the early 90s to send out a brand new book every month to any kid under the age of five, in, Sevier County, Tennessee.

And then it just sort of organically grown from there and grown and grown.

And it's now, by far the largest book giveaway program in the world.

Amazing.

We're over 300 million books now.

And, yeah, I think it's just one in every six kids in the United States gets a brand new book every month that's, developmentally appropriate, culturally responsive.

So really enlarges everybody's worldview no matter your background.

And, here in Rochester, I started the chapter when I was a pediatrics residents in 2021.

So kind of in the teeth of Covid.

And again, a testament to how much people love Dolly and her kind of her genius of of communication.

You know, we were able to go from, test zip code, to citywide in less than 18 months on the basis of how easy was, relatively speaking, to to fundraise and support the program here.

And you know, the I have the book right here.

And but by the way, like another really cool, you know, maybe not, Partizan but certainly political move is, is you can get every book, in both English and Spanish if you want.

And, or you can I mean, just English.

That's, you know, not at all.

That's not political.

No.

Go ahead man.

Yeah, yeah.

That that doesn't that doesn't speak to to anybody there.

You know, like Dolly could continually quote unquote get away with these things.

You know, she just had so much credibility in so many communities.

And she was so careful about how she spent this capital, that, you know, nobody ever has given anybody a hard time about this.

In fact, I was, I think, a Kentucky legislator several years ago came out and sort of attacked the imagination Library, and he just got buried.

Yeah.

That's right.

And, you know, I think, you know, Dolly is clearly Social Security is no longer the third rail of politics, but Dolly might be, and that's a, you know, so the very basic, so, you know, these books, one of the things that they, that they express with themselves is, you know, this is just a feel good book giveaway program, right?

This is a well studied, psychosocial intervention.

That has, without question, alleviated, to some extent, the literacy crisis.

You know, when I started the program, I looked into the research, want to do something that actually would work, in kids in a holding program from equivalent backgrounds or, to those who are not.

Or it's 30% more likely to show up to kindergarten ready to read.

And, you know, I've seen this with my patients and, again, it's it's such a classic way that Dolly operates.

Right?

This is this is a fun, sort of near sexy philanthropic endeavor.

Right.

But it also happens to be extraordinarily efficient, harnesses economies of scale, trusts parents, and caregivers at the level where they operate and works really, really, really well.

And, you know, so I think the fact that it's her legacy, in a lot of ways, I mean, obviously there's the artistry and the music and the film and so many ways that she's touched people.

But, the fact that this was the thing that she was the most proud of, I think in a lot of ways it it really does bring everything about her together.

There's not another program that I can think of where state legislators in Washington state and California and Tennessee and West Virginia have all electively flocked to it.

Right?

She was able to transcend, our political divisions in a way that I think is part of the reason why this celebration of her life feels so joyous that we can still come together.

Right?

We do still have a lot in common.

And it's it's really it's just a beautiful thing to be a part of.

Shirley, I'll take your phone call in just a second.

One other note on this, Matt, I'm so glad that Matt is telling this story because, when you see these bio bios and the profiles of Dolly, she does talk about this a lot.

And there's something that was very, very important to her.

And she didn't just say, I'm going to slap some money on something.

You you all go figure it out.

She loved reading the children.

She loved being with kids.

She loved being in those spaces.

She understood how hard it is for truly poor families because she wasn't, like, fake poor.

She wasn't like sort of folklore poor.

She was truly poor.

Grew up understanding what that feels like.

And I just found this to be so authentic.

And, we cover a lot of rich people in.

And when you're a journalist, you cover a lot of rich people and a lot of rich people become politicians.

Politicians love to put their names on things, so they put their names on fire halls.

They put their names on Little League facilities, they put their names on parks, all kinds of things.

And rich people put their names on all kinds of things.

Not everybody actually does any work beyond writing a check.

In fact, a lot of people don't do anything but write a check.

And sometimes in your politics, you're not even writing a check.

You just want your name on it.

Because apparently we think that someday everyone will remember us, instead of the fact that eventually all graves going attended all graves, but dollars will go unattended.

I just want to say, Matt, I'm grateful the work that you did to help pull this forward.

And, for people who want to still be part of it, who didn't know existed, what would you tell them?

Yeah.

So first I would say, make sure your kids signed up.

Right now we're within the city of Rochester.

I passed along the baton to, my wonderful friends at the United Way in April.

And, they're working on expanding it, hopefully throughout the region.

And they can do that as soon as, you know, they're able to support it sustainably.

So two ways to support one.

You can go to Rochester Imagination Library, story, and you can donate there, or you can enroll your kid there, or you can do both.

You know, again, the city right now is the is the current bounds of it.

And I think we're up to a little better than 1 in 3 kids in the city of Rochester.

So, you know, we're still trying to get everybody enrolled.

And then if you want to see this thing grow, this extraordinary, tool that's evidence based and really, really efficient and effective.

You know, you can emulate Dolly and, part with your treasurer a little bit.

It's important to know, you know, so Dolly and Dollywood pays for the central operations.

So the mechanics, the ginormous book warehouse in Tennessee, the book ordering system, but the each local chapter is, responsible for the wholesale cost of the book and then the cost of mailing the book, as well as sort of, you know, running their own chapter.

And, you know, so Dolly gave and has given enormously and generously.

But even she would not be able to support the cost of running the program, by herself.

And so it's a kind of it's a, it's a partnership, between the local chapters and then the Dollywood Foundation.

All right.

Let me get some other phone calls.

Shirley in Rochester has been waiting to jump in.

Hi, Shirley.

Go ahead.

Hi.

Thank you for taking my call.

Erin.

I was very sad to hear about Dolly's death, and I. I'm sorry I never attended a concert of her.

I've tried to do that in the past decade or so, attend concerts of people that are older than I am and might not be around long.

So I'm sorry I didn't see you in person, but I was wondering if anyone could tell me if Dolly and her husband made the conscious decision not to have children.

It was not a conscious decision.

Oh, Hannah Davis, I can answer that one.

I, I am a childless 35 year old, and so I've been hit with a lot of content this week about, this particular topic, which has been fascinating.

She had endometriosis.

Excuse me.

Too many syllables for the radio, but she, underwent a partial hysterectomy and could not conceive children, so they desperately wanted kids.

Dolly spent years trying to conceive despite her difficulties.

But her endometriosis was debilitating.

It was excruciating.

And it affected all parts of her life for a long time until she had that partial hysterectomy.

So that that is part of the justification for imagine, Imagination Library, etc.. And her love of kids that answered the question, surely so much.

Yes.

Yeah, I'm so.

And by the way, like this is a thank you, Shirley.

This is like a moment where that in a lot of other contexts that would feel like that's a little personal, but Dolly is such a big persona.

And it's I think it's natural to wonder.

This woman who clearly loved children.

Yeah.

Did she not?

Wow.

Yeah, I think so.

Shirley.

I think you're asking what a lot of people are asking.

And, So tough circumstance for Dolly and Carl.

Yeah, but she clearly loves, loves and loved kids and and is leaving a legacy to that.

Yeah.

There's a really beautiful quote where she said that she couldn't have children, and then she realized, she said, I'm everyone's mother.

That's just.

Yeah.

That's beautiful.

Yeah.

Love that.

Couple off her comments, Lynn and Brighten says, I think the word icon is very overused these days, but she was truly an icon and I don't think we'll see the likes of her again.

My 22 year old niece is usually only interested in new music that I've never heard of, but she posted a tribute to Dolly on Instagram.

I messaged her to ask if she liked Dolly and her response was like, yeah, who doesn't?

Yeah, there you go.

And Peter on YouTube writes I've always looked at Dolly Parton as a child of God first, philanthropist second, an amazing businesswoman, third, a musician was her job.

She is this century is Mother Teresa.

Oh.

Oh, wow.

I mean, that's a it's a an interesting comparison.

I don't have no, but Mother Teresa.

But I might venture to say she's a better person than other Jerry.

Okay, I see a whole other show there.

I know, I know, I have read those reports as well.

Oh, thank you for backing me up.

And let me get, let me get Jim in Rochester on the phone as well.

Hey, Jim, go ahead.

All right.

But, I wanted to call in because I don't want to steal the word from Dolly, and she was an amazing person.

I want to acknowledge that, I was kind of shocked, and I didn't know how to handle losing David Lynch as a celebrity.

Because just like Dolly Parton, those two are very multifaceted, and they do a lot for communities that they never talk about.

Like David Lynch has a trans daughter meditation program for veterans.

Dolly Parton has done so much for stray animals, dogs like she is a lot more than a musician, just like David Lynch was a lot more than like a director and producer.

So when you have these multifaceted people that have their hands and a lot and all they're doing is good, it makes it pretty hard to lose them.

Yeah.

I mean, look, Jim, David Lynch passing away about a year and a half ago, I think now, and yeah, I don't know, we mentioned Tim Curry earlier this hour.

We know celebrities very fleetingly and in very surface ways.

Most of the time we don't know them all that well.

And sometimes we think we know them and we really don't really don't.

I guess Mother Theresa might be in that category too.

I got a lot to read there.

But the bottom line is, I just want to uplift Jim's point there that when we know people who have power and privilege and access are really doing it, doing things to help others when they don't have to, and in ways that aren't always in the spotlight, they should be celebrated for that.

They should definitely be celebrated for that.

And, my guess is we will never know everything Dolly Parton did for people.

I mean, more and more, producer Megan Mack, who was a big fan, probably should be sitting in the studio talking about it.

But absolutely.

I don't know if she's ready.

You know, Megan knows all of these incredible stories about Dallas, her money in this way, in this community because of a certain experience or, and we're not going to know it all.

We don't deserve to know it all.

Start our business to know it all.

But, Jim, you're right.

When when we know people have really worked hard, in sometimes in spite of themselves, Dolly clearly could have been a billionaire and could have been a Michael Jordan type building billionaire.

And she was a different sort of super rich.

So, I think that's fair point.

So let's let's get ready to wrap up, and I'm going to ask all three of our guests what they want to leave for the audience.

But a minute apiece here, Doctor Matt Present.

You know, you've done great work in this community, and I'm really glad to hear that the Imagination Library continues and can still grow, even with the passing of Dolly Parton.

What do you want to leave with our listeners?

Yeah, I think.

I you know, the anecdote about, what she said, when she took the the word Dixie off of, the Dixie Stampede, I think is 2017, 2018.

And people asked her about that, and she said that, you know, I, I never wanted to hurt anybody, and I would never want to hurt anybody.

Once I understood that that hurt somebody, I wanted to to stop doing it.

I think there are a lot of things that we still have in common, a lot of values that we all share collectively.

And, you know, we learn our scripts on social media that, that make us sort of partizan.

But, I think the decency that, there is in finding common ground is, something that I think about a lot with her, and the ways in which she respected everybody.

And, so I think that for me is, is, is her lasting legacy.

That's great.

Beautiful.

Hannah Davis art, writes to say I saw the Wu-Tang clan at Darien Lake with my son last night during the rap montage of other rappers.

They gave Dolly shout out at the end.

Hell yeah, she transcended.

That's amazing thing she did.

She transcended everything.

Final thoughts.

That's beautiful.

I love that.

Yeah, my t shirt says, made by aforementioned bestie in in East Tennessee.

What would Dolly do?

And I certainly intend to kind of live with that question in the back of my head.

Because I think that's how we honor her legacy best, right?

We see the financial impact.

We see these wonderful programs.

We see all of her good work, and there's lots we don't see.

Right.

Which I think is so astute and accurate.

There's so much we'll never know about.

And but we have the idea of her that we can cherish and we can use how she led her life as a model for how we live our lives.

What would Dolly do?

She would be kind.

She'd be gracious.

She'd be funny as hell.

She'd be smart, and she'd tell us to be okay with whatever we're feeling or doing or being, And that's beautiful.

I think that that's how we move forward.

That's great.

Hannah mayor is, going to be on stage tonight with the band Candy and Candy performing at inspire More winery tonight.

Tomorrow starting at seven.

Candy doing Dolly at Abilene.

It's a big weekend for you.

Final thoughts from you here.

Yeah.

I mean, I just want to keep feeling inspired to do what Dolly did her whole life, finding common ground with people that you might not necessarily think you have anything in common with, but you do.

It's really important for everyone to do that.

We should all be coming together more, do good to others.

She always was doing that.

Be funny, make fun of yourself.

And honestly, it's just a true joy to be able to play her music.

I'm going to continue to experience her and figure out who she was by learning more songs by her and singing her songs.

So I'm just so grateful and blessed to be able to do that.

And yeah, she's a living and well, was a living legend and will continue to live on through all of us through song.

If not for silly licensing rules, we'd be playing Dolly Parton music all hour today.

But that is what it is.

And Dallas writes in to say they keep finding new Beatles music.

It's not over for Dolly.

Oh, there's more Dolly music coming.

So true it is.

It is going to be amazing to see.

I hope sooner than later.

But I want to thank all of our guest doctor present.

Thanks for the work you do.

Thanks for popping into the program this afternoon.

Thanks for having me.

Great.

It's great to have you, mat, Hannah and Hannah.

Thank you very much.

Hannah Davis.

Always nice to talk to you.

Same to you.

Thank you very much.

It's been too long.

Come back.

More off any time.

Hannah.

Mare, we'll see you on the route.

We'll see you on stage.

Thank you so much for having me.

Thanks for bringing the wig.

You know, at any time from all of us at Connections.

If you're thinking about Dolly, thanks for sharing your thoughts.

We get in as much as we could.

We do have one more hour of the week coming up next.

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