From WXXI news.

This is connections.

I'm Evan Dawson.

Our connection this hour was made on President Trump's third day in office last Wednesday.

The president signed an executive order meant to dismantle Dei, which stands for diversity, Equity and Inclusion.

Supporters of Dei initiatives point out that the practice was designed to address long standing systemic inequities, to promote fair opportunities and build inclusive work environments.

As described by Felix Richter at the data firm Statista, Dei initiatives focus on removing barriers, amplifying underrepresented voices, and ensuring equitable access to career opportunities and resources.

But that is not how conservatives tend to view Dei.

Activists like Chris Rufo argue that Dei efforts run counter to the principle of merit by disadvantaging people who do not meet Dei criteria.

Specifically, Rufo argues that Dei is designed to force white men out of the hiring pool and to make white people feel shame.

Here's how President Trump himself described it last week.

My administration has taken action to abolish all discriminatory diversity, equity and inclusion nonsense.

And these are policies that were absolute nonsense throughout the government and the private sector.

With the recent yet somewhat unexpected great Supreme Court decision, just made, America will once again become a merit based country in his executive order, which describes Dei efforts as radical, wasteful, illegal and immoral discrimination programs, Trump ordered the immediate termination of all Dei programs and activities under whatever name they appear.

The president also ordered that all federal employees and Dei programs be placed on paid administrative leave immediately.

Next up, his administration wants to find ways to dismantle Dei in corporate America and in academia.

Big retailers are already responding.

CBS news reports the following quote.

Target said Friday that it would join Walmart and a number of other prominent American brands in scaling back diversity, equity and inclusion initiatives that have come under attack from conservative activists.

And as of this week, the white House, the Minneapolis based retailer target, said the changes to its belonging at the bullseye strategy would include ending a program it established to help black employees build meaningful careers, improve the experience of black shoppers and to promote black owned businesses, end quote.

Now, Pew Research finds that support for Dei in the workplace is falling.

Several years ago was around 60% with very little opposition.

Now support stands around 50%.

Support for Dei has eroded the most among American men.

What's not clear is exactly how far the Trump administration can go to cut funding to organizations or schools that maintain Dei programs.

Defenders of Dei say that it is meant to provide opportunity where opportunity was historically denied.

But not all opponents of Dei are members of Trump's team.

Doctor Tabitha Lee was hired to direct the Dei program for a California community college she was fired for, she writes, criticizing how Dei operates.

She later said, quote, at its worst, dei is built on the unshakable belief that the world is divided into two groups of people, only the oppressors and the oppressed.

End quote.

She wanted her students to understand complexity.

She says that idea was not welcome.

We're going to talk about a lot of different ways that Dei is perhaps working, or maybe it could be reformed.

I don't, I don't know.

Our guests are going to bring you their perspectives, and we're going to talk about how they see the practice of Dei at a time when it is clearly under assault.

Let me welcome our guests now.

welcome in studio to Jessica Lewis, president and CEO of Lulu Public Relations.

Jessica, welcome back to the program.

Thank you for having me.

Welcome to Chad Anderson, who is the vice president of bloom Rock.

Chad.

Welcome back.

Tell people what bloom is.

Bloom ROC is a nonpartisan nonprofit formed here in Rochester, New York.

we're focused on creating and sustaining where we're focused on creating and protecting sustainable economic development within socio economic equity demographics, which is essentially the I demographics.

All right.

Well, thank you for being here.

We appreciate that.

welcome in studio to Bill Maley, who's supervisor of the town of Brighton, which, we talked about the with Bill, a couple of maybe 3 or 4 years ago, I don't remember.

So probably three years ago.

Three years ago.

So the town of Brighton has its, a di a chief diversity officer.

Yes.

That's right.

And and in fact, she was on the show with me last time, Maria Moore, our chief diversity officer.

you know, I'm sure I'll have a chance to take issue with some of those quotes, but for us, dei, in a community like Brighton that is diverse and its diversity is what makes it so attractive to so many people, you know, local government is the government closest to the people.

If we are not attuned to that diversity, if we're not open and receptive to working with everybody in a town like Brighton, I'm not doing my job.

We're not doing our job.

All right, let me also welcome on the phone, SIM Covington junior.

Doctor Covington junior is the chief diversity officer for Finger Lakes Community College.

FCC SIM, welcome.

Thanks for being with us.

Thank you very much for having me here.

So, everybody and in this program has a slightly different sector of our community that they represent.

And I think it'll be useful just to kind of get some opening comments.

And I'll go around the panel and I'll start with Jessica.

When you think about Dei, how has it how has your own work intersected with that first?

Sure.

Well, for me as a business owner, I would say that it's it's something that's very important.

I'm a black owned business, woman owned business, and I have that certification through the state of New York.

And so, seeing me as such is important because of the work that we do.

we value Dei as an agency and with the organizations and businesses that we partner with and whom we provide service to.

and so I think that this roll back will have implications that we may not all be aware of in terms of the breadth and depth of anything fall out that could potentially occur.

I know that there's so much conversation right now happening in, in the land of social media, because people are upset about it.

Some of their favorite retailers are rolling back and they're wondering why.

we'll talk more about that coming up here.

Chad, how do you, CDI in your work at Bloom ROC?

Absolutely.

So, like I said, bloom Rock is a nonpartisan nonprofit here in Rochester, New York.

for those of you who don't know, we are essentially operating in the cannabis space.

the mBTA, the Marijuana Regulation and Taxation Act, passed in March of 2021, was passed with the suggestion that 51% of the cannabis market in New York State adult use market always be socioeconomic equity.

There's five classifications of what that actually is on the eye.

We have our minority owned businesses, our women owned businesses, our service disabled veterans, our distressed farmers, and our individuals from communities disproportionately impacted.

So, you know, in the intro, when I say the eyes, essentially the rule being of who the market is, who we are, how we position ourself in the industry is exactly what I mean by that.

You know, we advocate for those we advocate for the voiceless, essentially making sure they have all the tools and resources they need to be successful in this very competitive cannabis market.

supervisor, mainly in the town of Brighton.

in the several years that you've had a chief diversity officer, has it made town operations better?

I think it has.

But it's more than just talent operations.

We've we, we've looked at it and and it was very much thought out when we first developed, what we call our idea plan, our inclusion, diversity and equity action plan, working with a very diverse group of town residents, to similar in some ways to what we do with land use.

We wanted to, you know, think very, thoughtfully about how we were going to approach this problem.

We were doing it during the pandemic.

So we had to be a little more creative about engaging with the community.

We found other communities that were doing similar work, in particular Beaverton, Oregon, we had a great opportunity to meet and talk with them.

But it's it's everything from the kinds of events that we, for example, just celebrated.

We just celebrated, Doctor Martin Luther King Day with a great event honoring Ruth Scott, a trailblazer in the city of Rochester and now living in the town of Brighton, where she's been an active volunteer.

So we're active in the community, whether it's indigenous peoples related events, pride, and, and but we're also focused internally.

We want to make sure that internally we understand what we need to do.

You know, one of the areas we were really focused on jobs, workforce development, and, and are thinking on that is very simple.

Bigger net, more fish.

We're not looking to discriminate.

What we're looking to do is reach out to more people so that more people in different communities know about job opportunities and volunteer opportunities.

With the town of Brighton, that gives us a better opportunity to to find the best people and do our jobs.

Before I turn to Doctor Covington Jr, let me just press that point.

When you say bigger net, more fish, this has been a point of contention that some of the advisors to to President Trump have pointed out their claim.

People like Chris Rufo, who again, are you if you don't know Chris Rufo, he's one of the most powerful people in the country right now.

He is setting a sort of cultural agenda that has been rolling out for the last three years or so.

And he's got the president's ear, so he's declaring victory over Dei.

And he says part of the reason, Bill is apart from or maybe con contrary to bigger net, more fish, he points to examples kind of ad hoc examples where he'll point to a university that said, you know, internal documents would show, hey, this next hire has to be a person of color.

This next, we cannot hire another white person for this department.

You know, we need more people of color.

And Rufo pointed out and say, 1964, you know, law says you can't do that.

And that's all Dei is now, and he finds these ad hoc examples.

What do you make of some of that, contrasting it to what you're talking about with what brightness trying to do?

Well, you can always talk about anecdotes, but that is not how we view these.

We truly do see it as an opportunity if we have more.

It's tough finding, for example, job applicants these days.

unemployment is is quite low.

The economy has been very strong.

So we want to make now what I've heard.

Excuse me.

and and I don't know about the price of eggs today, but what I do know is, is that it?

It is hard.

And we want to make sure we're engaging with groups in the community.

you know, settlement houses, I bureau, other organizations that are, working to make sure that they can place people in jobs.

We have entry.

We just just last night, we I mean, I'll I'll let folks know we've got a we've got a new job opening in our parks department for a ground equipment operator, someone who will be helping get parks ready, running lawnmowers, running all sorts of, of equipment to, you know, to serve our park department.

we have a long history of hiring people and retaining people and promoting people through our organization.

Our our new, deputy commissioner of public works started 23 years ago as a laborer in our public works department.

And we want to make sure we're drawing from the entire community to do that.

it is not about pushing anybody else out of the job.

As I mentioned, it's volunteers as well.

You know, we we couldn't do what we do without the volunteers who serve on boards like our planning board.

We have a budget review task force.

We one of our idea board volunteers, it had a long finance record and business record with one of, Rochester's largest, employers.

I looked at her resume and said, I really would like you to serve on our budget review task force as well.

And she is eminently well qualified for this position, not because she's a trans woman, but because she has great business and financial experience.

We know the more people know about what we're doing in Brighton, we will find more of those people and and help them work for the people of Brighton.

doctor Covington junior, do you want to tell me about how you see the work of Dei at the community college level, how that impacts what FLQ does 1,000,000,000%.

So the first thing I would say in regards to diversity, equity, inclusion here at single community college, we address diversity, equity, inclusion, a variety of ways, including addressing our campus climate programing, enrollment, talent acquisition, curriculum, policy development, as well as town gown relations.

Three examples that I provide you in regards to the impact of Dei, specifically here at FOC, is relevant to our enrollment.

So in 2018, we had about 17% of our students who were coming from underrepresented minority backgrounds, and we've been able to increase that to 26% in 2024.

That's communicating to us at one that we're taking this charge very seriously, and we're continuing to attract students who are coming from diverse backgrounds.

In addition to that, if we take into consideration the retention of these students another opportunity to explore student success, we are also fully aware most people probably know FcPS from our canon Digweed campus, but we also have three different campus centers in Victor Newark as well as Geneva and around Victor Campus Center.

We see that we've been able to double the number of our female students who are pursuing Stem programs, right?

So historically, Stem has been saturated by specifically white males, but we're now able to have more females students.

Once again, we doubled the number of female students who are going into our Stem programs.

Another example that I would, happily share, that our ability to retain our students who are living with a disability tends to be higher in certain years than our regular student population.

So we are seeing a variety of, for lack of a better word, dividends being paid to the institution.

The research is showing that the American demographic is continuing to become more diverse, and Finger Lakes Community College is continuing to support this change.

keeping our doors open as an open access institution, quite frankly, as the American demographic continues to change, support of diversity, equity, inclusion becomes a matter of organizational sustainability in addition to being the right thing to do.

Sam, do you do you get the sense that people in academia are looking at what the white House is doing and are concerned that, you know, part and parcel of what the executive order carried last week is the threat or the idea that any federal funding could be cut if you maintain D-I programs or offices.

is that conversation happening?

Is there concern about that?

I would say across the board of higher Education, that conversation is definitely happening, but I would tell people to take a pause.

So the epitome of higher education, is clearly and encouraging people to engage in critical thinking.

So that includes challenging assumptions, taking the time to be strategic about problem solving.

looking at evidence based decision making, right.

Anything can come from any, elected official, including myself.

but you want to take the time to pause.

So what we're doing specifically here at SCC, one of the pros that we have of being within a state university system is that that system continues to provide us with guidance.

So we're waiting for will meeting for excuse me, additional guidance from the Suny system as well as from New York state.

So as and as these changes are happening even in real time, we're keeping our, our finger on the pulse.

when Trump dropped something on Tuesday, I was literally in Albany at Suny Central on Wednesday.

Right.

We're continue to have conversations, either coming through my office as a chief diversity officer.

We're having things coming to the college president's office as well as the college provost.

As a college cabinet.

We continue to have conversations and keeping our board of trustees informed, because we want to make sure that we have a campus that's one responsive to the changes that are taking place.

And, we're being responsible in regards to the climate that we have here for our students, faculty and staff.

I think part of what you're hearing from Doctor Covington Junior is just someone who works in DC.

I'm making the case saying, all right, I mean, here's how we see the case for this.

And that's probably what's going to happen now is that if Dei is going to stay, it's going to have to make the case because you have a white House that wants it gone.

And, in a sense that may be healthy.

I mean, I it's just a question of whether people feel like there's good faith going on.

and, listeners, I know you want to weigh in.

I've got some emails I promise I'll get to.

Coming up, I see, Dorothy in Rochester.

I'll take your call coming up here if you want to call the program at 844295 talk.

It's toll free.

8442958255263 WXXI for call from Rochester.

2639994.

Or you can email the program connections at that org.

If you're watching on our Sky news YouTube channel.

I never know what camera to look.

Is there a camera right there?

There's something right there.

Oh, yeah, it's been a year since I've been on television.

My hair's been too much.

but you can join the chat section on YouTube.

The YouTube chat is a great place to jump in as well, so a lot of places to interact.

We'll get to some of your feedback in just a moment.

I do want to hit one other point with all of our guests though, and I'll start with Sam, and I'll go back across the panel here.

When it comes to why this assault is happening, you know, when when new programs and initiatives roll out and then they they crumble.

One of two things is happening.

I think they really didn't.

There were some own goals that didn't work very well.

There were some self-inflicted wounds or there's, you know, really strong cultural and ideological difference that seeks to exploit politics, which I'm not going to shock anybody, but it's a very political moment.

But some are there some own goals, some missteps the DEA has made as you see it.

Or do you view this as purely an ideological attack from the white House?

Are there some.

Yeah.

Oh I'm sorry.

Go ahead.

Go ahead.

First, what I was going to say is, I want to be brutally honest.

And first and foremost, I think that's a great question.

And here's my response.

When it comes to this work, Evan, it's not necessarily what you do, it's how you do it.

and what I mean by that is when it comes to supporting Dei, specifically when it comes to the presidential election, I think that some of the angst that has impacted, the American landscape is when things operate as what people may conceptualize themselves as an extreme right.

so when people think that when people think that something is taking place at an extreme, events, eventually that's going to contribute to a certain level of resistance.

One of the things that, with the support of the college president here at ssLC that I've been able to do effectively here in Ontario County, is to work with a variety of stakeholders on and off campus in regards to bridging these conversations, and we've made considerable progress.

Examples of that would be, my engagement with different school districts around doing this work.

And we're having these conversations once again, the way you do it, it typically doesn't need to inks.

And I also need to reiterate that the invitation to come back tends to be repeated, because your approach to the work, I think, is going to be very important.

Something else that I've been able to do effectively, specifically here in Ontario County, is that I do implicit bias training for every law enforcement agency in Ontario County.

And I'm saying that to you as a six foot five, dark skinned American, doctor, an African-American male.

Right.

and these law enforcement agencies are continuing to invite me back.

So when it comes to your question about whether or not there's an agenda, to give you a direct answer, yes, I think there is an agenda.

And part of that agenda is to promote this whole concept of a meritocracy that's taking place in the United States, which many would conceptualize as a forced meritocracy.

The real history of this country includes racism, sexism, ableism, colonization, etc.

so diversity, equity, inclusion is taking intentional, strategic steps to make sure that individuals who are coming from diverse backgrounds are given a, an equitable opportunity.

Supervisor Lee, what do you think this is all about?

Well, I do live in a political world, of course, the governmental world.

But, the politics are always there.

And, you know, what we've seen is, this new administration is just throwing a whole bunch of stuff up against the wall.

Apropos to what you had your guests last hour, the town of Brighton has signed on to a brief, in support of a preliminary preliminary injunction, against the birthright, citizenship issue that, you know, totally out of left field birthright citizenship is enshrined in the Constitution.

And I'm very confident that that that will get reversed.

So I think we're seeing lots of stuff thrown at the wall to see what's going to stick, not without apparently too much regard for the underlying legal basis in it.

But I also think it's without regard to the impact that these things are going to have.

We're seeing it across communities.

You know, did the diversity of a town like Brighton is much more than race?

It's faith.

It's the, the fact that a community like Brighton, it's very welcoming to the LGBTQ community.

We've had people in the last several weeks coming into our clerk's office to get marriage license because they're afraid.

And we've seen it.

We've seen, Republican elected officials trying to or a call on the Supreme Court to reverse the Obergefell decision.

marriage equality is the law of the land.

so much of what is being targeted here is the law of the land.

And, it it's important to who we are as a small community in Brighton, but as a nation.

But let me play devil's advocate.

Those you are someone and you've been in Brighton in government for a while.

You profess a desire to have a fair and truly successfully diverse and merit based set of hiring practices.

So if you got rid of the, you know, diversity department or you didn't have a chief diversity officer, you know, I think some people would say, well, I had saved taxpayers a few dollars and, you know, you're not going to you're not going to hurt anybody.

I mean, you're a good guy.

You're going to have good hiring practices.

What changes if you don't have a DTI officer?

Well, I don't profess to bring all the different school skill sets, to the position that the rest of our team brings, whether it's a chief diversity officer or, you know, whether it's, people in, in the other areas, our parks director.

Sure.

We could we could probably do without a parks director, but then who's going to give us the guidance, the leadership that we need to do our jobs that serve the people of our community.

So I don't think it costs the residents of Brighton money.

I think it would cost the residents of Brighton not only money, but quality of life.

if we were to just unilaterally, eliminate that, the work that we're doing, we have, I keep going back to this, but it's true, the diversity in a town like Brighton, you know, mobility and accessibility.

We're doing a major renovation project in Town Hall now.

for years, if you walked into Town Hall and were a person with a mobility disability and a wheelchair, for example, you had to come in the back door and go up an elevator.

Back door sounds an awful lot like back of the bus to me, and that's not acceptable.

As part of this project, we're going to be putting in ramps so that people can come in the front door, in their wheelchair or with whatever other mobility assistance they need, and that is DTI.

So in a when people, as seems to be too often the case, are focused on race and maybe immigration status, and those are important pieces of being supportive of a diverse community.

But it is much more than that.

Chad Anderson, vice president of bloom Rock, what do you think this is all about right now?

Yeah, I have a new mind repeating the question.

So I when you look at this, the not just the white House, not just the president's attack on Dei, but some of the cultural backlash, some of the the drop in support for Dei, do you think it is because it's being sort of leveraged as a cultural issue without really kind of merit?

Or are there reasons that has Dei made some missteps?

I also agree.

That's a great question.

I do just kind of want to preface I'm answering this as Chad Anderson Vice president.

Okay, fair fair enough.

You know, just got to make sure that delineations made by I think, you know, as Brandy, who you might as well says, quite frequently, I think there's two things happening at the same time.

I think on the one hand, and 100% is an agenda that they're pushing.

I'm sure, you know, we need to really get into it today, but we all know what project 2025 is and what the implications of that.

I feel like it's always been no secret once.

And if Trump were to get into office, what that would look like from especially a Dei standpoint, since we're just talking about that today.

So I certainly do think that there's a targeted push to just continue, to, you know, wedge a wider gap in what that looks like as far as the tensions in our, you know, and our nation goes.

And that can be from race tensions that can be men and women that can be, you know, this sex to that sex, that's whatever that necessarily looks like.

So on the one side, I certainly do think it's it is a direct attack on social equity.

I'm even kind of in my specific industry, the cannabis industry.

you know, we saw our first attack, probably, I would say about a year and a half to two years ago now.

And kind of what that look like for us specifically is, you know, I'm sure like we spoke about when we first came on the show, these numerous lawsuits.

This isn't the first time somebody claimed that in the unconstitutionality of a piece of legislation, that legislation and our specific case we missed due to something about, you know, some sort of inclusion or something.

So like I said, you know, just say all that to say it is a, directed, targeted push.

But on the other hand, nothing's perfect.

I feel like I find myself talking about this, you know, frequently.

Once again, to our specific industry, the cannabis industry we're going on for years now.

We've been around since the Mid was signed in 2021.

And I'm actually be actually for and on March of 2025 this upcoming year.

And you know, just like any C-level business, let's call it, you don't expect, you know, the next corporation to be successful within 3 to 5 years.

Correct.

We can all agree those are their seed stages.

So when you implement a brand new governmental agency, that being the Office of Cannabis Management, to implore them to, you know, regulate this industry, when we're talking about Dei, we're talking about cells, we're talking about, all the things that the adult use cannabis industry encompasses.

We want them to do that.

you know, they make mistakes, which is okay.

I think making mistakes is okay.

What I can say, though, is as far as what success looks like, once again, our specific industry, it was recommended 51% of the market eyes be allocated to socioeconomic equity licenses.

As of today, the market is, I want to say 54.1.

I was just looking at it.

Yeah.

54.1 with, focus on minority and women owned businesses.

so like I said, I think there's two things going at the same time.

Yes, it is a direct attack on on just culture.

The I belief systems.

But, you know, at the same time, I think it's fair to say that anything, especially private sectors, governmental sectors can always use work and to not say that, you know, Dia.

Well, to say Dia is perfect is just, you know, out of the realm.

I find that to be kind of really real here.

But, you know, in a broad sense, that's kind of my feelings.

All right.

Fair enough.

I Jessica Lewis, what do you think this all about?

So I think what we're seeing is obviously there's been a transfer of power.

And whenever a political group has the, ability to enact executive orders, they're going to do so in a way that serves their interest.

and so we've been hearing this rhetoric around Make America Great Again, America being in its golden age.

Well, my question is, for whom?

So we know that black Americans, history with this country has been one, that has not really been that great, starting with the transatlantic slave trade, chattel slavery, Black Codes, Jim Crow, things of that nature.

And all too often when we have these conversations, we forget about the equity piece and what that really means.

It means to give people what they need based on their circumstances, so that they can then meet everybody else.

And so when you have a group that has been historically, disadvantaged to competing with the group, that has been an advantage.

There's going to be inequity and inequality.

And so what the AI has tried to do is level the playing field, but now you have an administration who is saying, you know what, we don't want this anymore.

We want to go based on merit.

Well, I just received an email about a local university celebrating its charter day, which started back in 1851.

That was more than 100 years before Brown versus Board of Education.

So that means that black students and white students could not be educated in the same institution.

So if your group has had a 100 year head start in mind, has not, how could we possibly be entering the race at the same time with the same resources, etc.?

There's obviously a level, of unfairness, if you will.

And so by rolling back these efforts, you are continue to disadvantage marginalized groups.

Okay.

So that's the landscape is our guest.

See them talking about Dei and what I have to do with this if you're on the phone, if you've sent emails, we're going to get to them right after this only break.

We're going to come back and we're going to work through, I think, comments on a lot of different angles here, which is, I think, fair.

as we talk about Dei, if you're just joining us, President Trump, says no more Dei at the federal government at all.

He wants his team to find ways to dismantle Dei everywhere.

That's in the corporate sector, that's in academia.

A Target and Walmart have already, as Jessica mentioned, responded by, kind of folding their tent and saying, okay, we're not going to do, you know, what we were doing with Dei, anymore and kind of trying to curry favor with the new administration.

So we'll see, where this goes.

But we'll get to your feedback in just a second after this break.

We've got Jessica Lewis, president CEO of Lulu Public relations with us.

Chad Anderson is vice president of Bloom ROC, which is working in the legal cannabis space.

Bill mainly is supervisor of the town of Brighton, which hired its own diversity officer, chief diversity officer, several years ago and talked about it on this program.

And Doctor SIM Covington Jr is with us on the line.

The chief diversity officer for FCC.

We're right back.

I'm Evan Dawson.

Wednesday on the next connections, we bring back a couple of recent conversations.

Miguel Velasquez, the CEO of Arts, talks to us about the future of public transportation in the Rochester region.

Then in our second hour, who are the artists of the generation?

Who's the Bob Dylan of today?

Does that exist anymore, or is music been so fragmented that that doesn't exist?

We'll talk about.

Support for your public radio station comes from our members and from Excel US Blue Cross Blue Shield with a mission to address health inequities by building up communities and breaking down health barriers.

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This is connections.

I'm Evan Dawson and I want to hit something that a number of listeners have been asking about this hour that is I think related.

But it's going to be its own conversation.

And that's the question on funding for things like research and clinical trials and all kinds of things that are related to work that's happening in our community.

there's still a lack of clarity there.

NBC news was just reporting on this, and I'm just trying to sort through this that our production team has been sending me.

I appreciate that.

but the bottom line is, I don't have a full picture of that for you.

I can't tell you that what's happening at U of R, U, Aamc, or other research institutions elsewhere is going to be affected by this.

It could, and I'm sure everyone's looking at it.

but we'll do that on a different day.

So I do appreciate those questions.

but give us some time.

We'll try to figure out more about that before we dig in there.

All right, Dorothy in Rochester, first.

Hey, Dorothy.

Go ahead.

Hi.

I am for hi.

I was raised in New York City, and we were a poor family living in Queens, but we had some disadvantages due to that.

But, we managed to survive it, but, I was about ten years old when they started bussing.

Kids into our neighborhood, and I thought that was fantastic because I met new people.

And, but I look back on the racial variety of people in that old neighborhood, and now it's still under 1% African American in that neighborhood.

But I just think that we have this president who's in office who's able to screw everybody over.

And anybody who objects to him, he goes out of his way women, gays, anybody just to migrants.

He goes after them with this hatred that is ingrained in him.

But I'm all for equality for everybody.

And special attention paid to the people who are on the low end of the totem pole, in my opinion.

Dorothy, I appreciate the phone call.

I you got some very strong opinions there.

I, I appreciate that.

I can tell you that some of the emails reflect Dorothy's point of view.

In fact, I think Dorothy just cleared me from having to read several emails that seem almost the same thing.

you know, it's go ahead.

It's interesting because, you know, and I keep going back because the immigration issue is is really tied in here.

But you you talked about, students coming into the community and, and helping to revitalize things.

Rochester as a community is not really growing organically, but one of the ways the community can and does grow is immigrants who come into this country and are building up our economic base.

The work in the Dei area is not a zero sum game of years ago, I worked with, people coming into the Rochester area from the Sudan, from the South Sudanese community, the lost Boys.

These were young men, mostly, who had literally walked across their country looking at its refugees and then had the opportunity to come to this country and others.

They were bringing an energy of vigor.

And we are a stronger community when we welcome people who bring new perspectives, new energy, new skills to our community.

And I look at what we're doing from a D-I perspective is exactly the same thing.

We are finding opportunities to broaden our skill sets and and reflect the breadth and depth of our community more effectively.

All right.

I don't want to give Bill Maley a filibuster, but I'm going to start with you on this one, on all of our guests to weigh in, because I want to read three emails that offer a range of where I think the critiques are in terms of an ideological spectrum, starting with more on the the political or cultural right.

Joe writes to say if a government directs funding to minority and women owned businesses, how is that not discriminating against white people?

Bill Maley, you're a town supervisor.

You've been a town attorney.

So Joe was saying, you know, because Jessica was talking to us about a history of inequity in this country that is undeniable.

And so now we have a lot of emphasis on minority and women owned businesses.

But Joe's saying, isn't that de facto discrimination against white people?

What do you say?

Well, in local government, that that simply isn't what we do.

We are not directing funds to, to women or to a particular, minority owned businesses or otherwise.

But again, let's talk about Brighton.

Let's talk about the kinds of the variety of restaurants, new Korean restaurant, new Puerto Rican restaurant, right across, across the street from town Hall.

there is a woman owned business that is doing some great things, in the travel industry.

So rather than just, you know, send money and resources, we are benefiting from the money, the diversity, the fact that we have all these businesses that have chosen to come to Brighton, that are serving the Brighton community and making us a better place, I believe, to live and work.

Okay.

Jessica.

Yes.

Okay.

So we have there's a level of ignorance that surrounds comments like that.

And the reason why I say that is because there's an unawareness.

If you read scholarly work by Nikole Hannah-Jones, doctor Joy grew, Ibrahim can date.

You will begin to understand if the first ship landed here in 1619, where these individuals were bringing slaves, that there was an economic advantage that they already had.

So you had an opportunity to come over here and settle because you were trying to get away from the Queen and the magistrate.

So you've had this advantage to amass wealth that has been passed down from generation to generation.

So when we're talking about and I can only speak from a racial perspective, I understand the supervisor is brought in, brought in it.

But for me, it's kind of like that's why equity is important, to give people what they need based on their circumstance.

And if you are ignorant to equity in what that means, then you submit comments like that because you don't understand, you know, and if I could follow up real quickly because race is obviously a very important part of that.

Several years ago, the exhibit that they had, at the at the museum showing, and I don't remember what it was called, but, it was so striking to me to see a pile, an exhibit showing two piles of money from two long Island communities, one of which, you had you had homeowners who had taken advantage of veterans type programs and were able to build equity and and minority members, mostly black community members who did not have access to homeownership as a way to build personal financial stability.

Because programs and we see it here, look at programs like comida, the County Manor Industrial Development Agency.

The reality is a lot of economic development funds and attention has gone not to these, you know, sort of perceived to minority groups as that letter suggests.

They've gone to large successful businesses.

Why did target need economic development to build a big store next to around a quaint mall that helped hasten the decline of around a mall?

It hasn't been targeted to minorities all too often, and we certainly started to see it in this administration.

Resources are being needlessly targeted at those who don't need it at the most wealthy.

Okay.

so, Joe, I appreciate that.

Now, here's, a set of comments from Colin.

Colin has done work in the local labor federation.

Certainly on the left.

Bill, maybe.

No.

Do this.

Colin O'Malley and the I'm going to sum up some of the criticism, and I'm going to read his exact words.

But from the left, to the extent that I hear criticism of Dei, it sounds like this.

Do you want to help groups that have been disadvantaged historically fix the economy, target, have a much more truly equitable economy that is window dressing?

Real economic reform is what's necessary.

Here's what counts.

As someone who believes intensely in the importance of racial and social justice, I should.

I think we should recognize Dei as the abject failure that it was always going to be, in a moment of important, concrete demands, Dei gave major institutions a necessary PR escape.

Has the racial wealth gap closed?

Has segregation lessened?

Is the disparity in prisons going down?

Or is it like Costco who got great PR for their Dei program while at the same time refusing to negotiate decent raises for their 18,000 largely people of color employees?

And Colin finishes by saying.

Meanwhile, the far right has used these toothless PR programs as a reactionary, rallying cry.

Little has been gained, lots has been lost.

Seems like a staggering failure to me.

I think everybody wants to jump on this.

Go ahead, Jessica, we'll get everybody on this.

Okay?

Can two things be true at once?

There we go.

You know what I'm saying, right?

Does he have a point?

Absolutely.

But what solution is he putting forward?

I think and I won't speak for Colin.

He's saying just go.

We've got to be relentless on the economy.

I mean, yeah, I mean yeah, I would I kind of is using both hand but go ahead.

Yeah.

And I mean I just would kind of just piggyback with what I'm assuming Jessica was going to say.

but also, you know, kind of sympathizing with Colin to an extent.

I think there's a multi-pronged approach to it.

you know, like I said, blue Rock, we are a station situated solely in economic development.

And what that looks like.

am I saying, you know what?

I feel like you know, this kind of maybe just goes back to when I was a kid in the participation awards, but I hate it.

I hate, hate, hate a participation award.

And I think kind of to Colin's comment, he's to an extent and insinuating that Dei, you know, is kind of the front for it.

And I certainly do agree that economic development has to be done to kind of supplement that.

What that looks like.

I think that's where we start talking about some of the organizations, you know, obviously like blue Rock, but, you know, not only blue Rock in the cannabis industry, also outside of the cannabis industry, you know, rock, EDC, a lot of the organizations in that kind of helm that are doing the work to really, you know, boots on the ground.

What does it look like to provide resources to actually, you know, I know some fantastic organizations and some fantastic private owned businesses that are where they are right now due to micro loans or micro grants from some of these, you know, municipal based organizations that help them get off the ground.

So, Chad, when when Colin says, show me the problems that have been solved because of DTI, you're saying, hey, in the legal cannabis space, we'll talk in 3 or 5 years and see if this has worked.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

But your intention is not to have a participation award.

You want to see a material difference?

I hate participation, okay.

Let let me get some info on the sim coming to junior chief diversity officer for FCC.

Colin says tell me a problem.

The Dei is actually improved or solved.

that is a great question.

I've been I've been playing the sideline here, listening for a while, and there's so much I want to say.

So the first thing I would say in regards to, Jessica mentioned the level of ignorance, I'll use my personal life as an example.

I'm proud alumni of the University of Alabama.

So the University of Alabama was founded in 1820, but the stand at the schoolhouse door was in 1963.

So to Jessica's very valid point for 143 years, regardless of my interests, proximity, or academic prowess, I legally in this country would not even be admitted to the University of Alabama per se, simply because of the color of my skin.

So that reinforces the, for lack of a better word, advantage of for generations that she spoke about that is very valid to this point and regards the progress that Dei has made.

Quite frankly, it's a question that was submitted by our colleague Colin Reinforce the issue in the first place.

Everything that he talks about perpetuates the whole concept of systemic racism and this whole concept of, he talks about, economic development so important.

I would still highlight the issues when it comes to systemic racism.

So, for example, if we're going to talk about economic development, the first question I'm going to have is who gets a seat at that table?

Right.

That's going to be very important if we're talking about economic development, whose story are we telling?

Who's missing from the conversation, and how are we going to move that forward?

Now we go to some tangible progress that has been made with Dei, obviously a perfect example of that would be the civil rights movement, right?

There has been progress in this country when it comes to diversity, equity, inclusion, but that progress still has a long way to go.

I provided some tangible examples of things that we're doing here at Finger Lakes Community College.

But once again, in addition to FcPS Higher Education K through 12, American society still has a long way to go.

If we think about, things that have plagued this country since its founding, one of the things that was brought up was, chattel slavery, Jim Crow laws.

I also mentioned that we still have a long way to go.

There are some tangible things that have taken place in regards to the efforts around Dei.

for example, minority and women owned businesses, right, in regards to being intentional and strategic about allocating funds because you're recognizing the disenfranchized who have, quite frankly, built the fabric of this country by default of chattel slavery, etc..

Right?

So though we understand his question, my question back to him and Evan, once again, I'm not looking for you to answer it.

A lot of times, people can acknowledge the issue while simultaneously having the privilege to sit on the sideline of it.

So typically when we're having individuals who are critics, my response is, no, no, no, I don't need your criticism.

The fact that you acknowledge that the issue exists, I need your help.

That would be my response to column okay.

Supervisor Maley and and yes, Colin, I mean, I do, you know, Colin's been active in, in, in the, in the labor movement, among other, progressive, organizations in this community.

But if you look at the labor movement, for example, I mean, it it's always had its, you know, different, different facets to it.

And politically, at certain times it has been, a more conservative force than you might expect here in the Rochester community.

I look at organizations like the Coalition of Black Trade Unionists, Pride at Work as having not only change the nature of, labor organizations in this community, but they have worked together, to make those organizations the, the organized labor, movement in Rochester, more inclusive, more effective.

And, you know, you don't have to hang a dollar sign on the door.

These are all part of effective movements that that move the needle.

I don't want to let the perfect stand in the way of the good.

a Colin is absolutely right at the end of that statement when he talks about, you know, programs like this, we're seeing it today.

They are a red herring.

And people are, are targeting.

But what they're what they're targeting has in many cases, yes, successfully moved the needle and brought job opportunities, housing opportunities.

We, you know, in bright it's it's it's little things.

It can be incremental when we may when we before the state I was surprised the state didn't have this law that that you couldn't discriminate against section eight.

recipients in terms of housing.

And we passed a law in Brighton to make that illegal.

We got some pushback.

But those incremental movements make a broad swath of the community better off.

I'm going to be out of time.

So 20s can the federal government say to towns like yours, hey, you have a DEA officer, no more funding for you until you scrap that department.

We're not going to we are not going to roll over.

I don't believe they can.

And we are going to continue because our work has been successful.

Do you think you'll have to go to court over it?

I hope not, but, I've been, past president of the New York State Association of Towns.

I am very confident just as that this litigation against the birthright citizenship.

Yeah.

I am very confident that, we have the right to do what we're doing because it works.

Chad Anderson at Bloom Rock has said that.

Hey, let's talk in 3 to 5 years.

Let's see if organizations like bloom have been successful.

in the sphere, in the legal cannabis space.

You got a big event coming up on Saturday.

Tell people about it, what's going on.

Absolutely.

So we're doing our second annual award ceremony and gala.

this Saturday, I Glendive ears on Old Brown Croft Road in Penfield.

this is just a really big event for us as far as fundraising goes.

Awards.

we have nine awards.

We're going to be recognizing community members for their efforts in the industry and really just a way to destigmatize cannabis that's really, also rooted in our mission at bloom.

Right?

You know, when we have cannabis tax, cannabis tax revenues coming back to municipalities, we want to be able to, you know, help out.

I was just talking to, yeah.

Absolutely.

On, you know, what's Brian's plan for it?

You know, what's that look like?

That's going to be a 1% of $1 trillion.

Is is a lot of money.

so, you know, just talking to that.

But yes, if you're interested in coming to the event, please go to Eventbrite, search bloom Rock, or you can find us on bloom on Instagram at Bloom underscore rock.

Hey, thank you for being here.

Thank you so much, Jessica, as we say goodbye to you, 20s.

How would you advise target Walmart based on what you've seen them do in the last week?

Bring back the eye and support small black owned businesses.

You tell them straight up.

Yes, like.

Jessica's presidency of La Lupe Public Relations.

Thank you for being here.

at Bill Maley.

Thank you.

From the town of Brighton.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Evan and Sam Covington, junior doctor coming to junior.

the whole question on the academic world is probably its own conversation.

Thank you for for bringing us into that sphere.

And hopefully we can talk again soon.

Thank you much, Chief diversity officer for FCC from all of us at connections.

Thank you for listening.

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