From WXXI news.

This is connections.

I'm Evan Dawson.

Our connection this hour was made in an executive order signed by President Trump this week.

This order suspends refugee admissions to the United States.

It's a move that immediately.

Appears to jeopardize the status of thousands of Afghan citizens who worked with the United States government during the war.

On this program, we've told the stories of many servicemen and women who arrive in the United States on a special immigrant visa, granted because of their service to the United States Armed Forces.

At this point, it is possible that the CIB program will be separated and spared from this executive order.

It is not clear.

Organizations that work, for example with Sibs, want more clarity.

They might be feeling some anxiety about what is coming next.

And frankly, for years the CIB programs under administrations in both parties have moved slowly.

They get behind schedule, and people are often left behind.

So we're talking to Sibs, yes, but we're talking broadly about what we are seeing with this refugee order, what that means and what comes next here.

And let me welcome our guest this hour in the studio with us here.

Ellen Smith is the founder and executive director of Keeping Our Promise.

Welcome back to the program.

Thank you, Evan, as always, for having us.

Remind listeners what keeping our promise does keeping our promise resettle wartime allies who worked for, the US military and the State Department in conflict zones?

welcome as well to get a child.

Bashir, who's director of the refugee department at Catholic Charities Family and Community Services.

Welcome back.

Thanks for being here.

Thank you for having me.

Welcome on the line to General John Bradley, retired lieutenant general in the United States Air Force and co-founder of the Lamia Afghan Foundation.

General, welcome back to the program.

Thank you very much for inviting me back.

I appreciate it.

General, tell us again what, what the foundation does.

Allow me.

Afghan Foundation was established mainly to build schools for girls.

Of course, the Taliban have control of those schools now.

We built nine, but we have 23 schools for girls in homes now.

We feed families, we provide humanitarian aid, but we educate girls at 23 homes with 25 girls in each.

And we go to 12th grade.

Remarkable work.

And let me welcome as well Sean Vandiver, who is president and chairman of Afghan Evac.

Sean, welcome.

Thanks for being with us.

Thank you so much for having me.

You know, whenever Ellen, that's going to do something, I, I just do it.

You are not the first person who has said that this community.

Sean, tell us what your organization does.

Sure.

Afghan evac, came together in August of 2021 when my buddy lucky said, brother, I'm stuck, surrounded by the Taliban, running out of ammunition.

Please help get my family back to San Diego.

Thought he was going to die.

just like thousands of others across this country.

and I have a background in emergency management and national security and politics.

And I said, you know what?

There's all these people that are talking and all these separate groups.

We need to bring them together.

So Afghan Event brings together organizations focused on helping our wartime allies to make sure they're working from the same sheet of music, that they have accurate information and that they're pressing government, unified so that, we can achieve the goals that we have, which is just to get our allies here.

I will say at the outset here that, maybe a little bit unlike the conversation last hour, the conversation this hour is going to talk about this executive order.

It's going to talk about what's happening with this new administration.

This is not meant to be.

And this is really not filled with panelists who are Partizan.

In fact, they are distinctly from my understanding, nonpartisan and really interested in the work they're doing regardless of administration.

so, I mean, I know that's kind of the caveat.

We give a lot.

Ellen, and for good reason, I think, for your organization and for these others here.

But do you want to just say a word about that before we kind of get going here?

Yeah, I, we are nonpartisan and it's just my goal is to make sure our wartime allies, are resettled in decent housing and have the support that other veterans have when they come home from war.

So let me ask all four of our guests, just for kind of the 30,000ft view of this executive order.

And then we're going to work through what their how their work could be impacted going forward.

The work they're trying to do in the winter all throughout this year and beyond, and what we are facing.

Let me start with Ellen.

You heard about this, this executive order affecting refugees?

I'm I'm sorting through.

I'm trying to better understand it myself.

How do you see it?

Well, the I mean, the first thing I saw when I read the order was that it was geared towards those refugees coming through what we call the U.S. ramp system.

And sieves are not in that system.

And then this morning, it was, a message went out to everyone from PRM that, sieves were not included in this executive order.

Now, I hold my breath on that because anything can change on any day.

but I'm really saddened knowing all the other Afghans that have come to Rochester through the P1 or P2 program.

We have a silly cases still from the evacuation, and I wonder what's going to happen to them.

And they wonder as well.

I mean, I've had two people in my office this morning.

The first person who is actually Ukrainian said, why am I here?

Why am I here?

And where do I go?

And then, you know, one of our staff members was very tearful.

she's waiting for her green card, and she just said, I am feeling so overwhelmed.

I mean, these these are people that we want to support and, you know, and I'm just saying to them, I've got your back, I will do as much as I can and get the message out.

Are you would you be surprised at this point if sibs are affected by this particular order?

I would be because I, I just see so many cross political cross political support for the savvy program.

I mean, these are people who did work for the United States.

So, I am surprised, but I'm also surprised to see the P2 program included in the executive order, because they, too, were working for a lot of programs that were supported by the U.S. in Afghanistan.

And Sean can talk more about that or G.G.. Sean, you want to follow up there?

Yeah.

Look.

this executive order was, I don't think, surprising.

I think people expected that there would be executive orders on immigration and on refugees.

you know, we did a letter last week or over the last few weeks, calling to the incoming administration, now, the current administration, saying like, hey, just a heads up.

Like, as you're thinking about this, make sure that you do carve outs for Afghans.

Make sure this makes sure that make sure there's funding.

Make sure you're publicly supportive.

they seem to have not gotten the memo.

we know they got it.

It seems like they did not heed it.

but look, the types of people impacted by this order are lawyers and prosecutors and judges who put the Taliban in jail.

They're women pilots from the Afghan military and other partner forces.

Folks that went to our green AQ course in the army, trained, fought alongside and bled alongside our Green Berets.

And indeed, family of active duty US service members.

And the numbers here are pretty staggering, right?

We're thinking we're talking about about 10,000 Afghans who are fully vetted, security vetted, ready to travel across Afghanistan and Pakistan.

And then all told, probably somewhere between 50 and 60,000 people who are, for one reason or another, because of their association with us, in danger and at risk.

And we've got and we've got to keep the national promise.

Right.

Our words cannot be temporary or conditional based on who's in the Oval Office.

And look, we think that this was an oversight.

We think that President Trump didn't mean to do this.

We think that, because he campaigned on this, he talked about it, you know, at every debate, he talked he had a lot of feelings about the withdrawal.

We all thought it was very chaotic.

And and he made it clear that we shouldn't leave folks behind.

And, and now he won.

And, you know, at the RNC, they talked about it every day.

So we're hoping that he recognizes the error of his ways and will amend this.

I want to add one more thing just to to put, a local face or perspective on this.

one of the families that is helping our survivors from the drone strike when the U.S. wrongly bombed a U.S. aid worker that General Bradley knows.

And we have, some of those family members here in Rochester.

And I worked very hard to get all the documents together for the remaining family members.

They're in Afghanistan who appear, by the way, to qualify for savvy.

But we thought it would be quicker to move them through the regular refugee program.

DoD acknowledged this family and said, yes, we will take them.

This is like the last drone strike survivors that we're taking, but they're affected by this.

The people that we killed, their family members and they are affected by this order.

But do you, Ellen, do you agree with Sean, that maybe this was an oversight or just the president didn't mean to do this?

I don't know what the president and his advisers are thinking, but we do know that some of his advisors, are very anti-Muslim.

And, I guess I'm not as gracious as Sean on that, because I just remember what it was like in 2017. let me ask General Bradley for your thoughts on the order so far.

General.

Well, Sean has given you a good synopsis of it.

I am not totally, pessimistic about this.

I am optimistic, but I don't know, how seeing the P2 part of this P1, p2 part of this might be, broken off so it could continue.

I do believe these surveys will continue.

I have a very good feeling about that.

This family that, survived the drone strike, they work for a fabulous nonprofit that I work with extensively in my nonprofit work.

And, it was just a horrible mistake in killing this, this man alone.

Seven children, along with three adults.

It was a mistake.

A drone strike that killed him during the evacuation.

A lot of that family has been brought to the United States, but they could be in jeopardy of perhaps being sent out.

I do believe the main emphasis, on this administration will be on illegal immigration.

Obviously, there'll be a lot of that, but this is legal in from in, legal immigration, the P1, P2, the SRP processes.

So I think eventually it will get back on track.

That's my hope and my prayer and my belief, if I remember correctly, general, I think the president said at his inauguration that he loves legal immigration and wants to see more of it and that we need it.

And, you know, the laws or the laws or the laws allow for the SRB and the P1 and P2, that is legal immigration.

These are people who work for the government through as through contractors, in many cases for the services like interpreters and, those that worked on bases doing all kinds of tasks for contractors with the U.S. military.

They are also, people who work for media organizations and nonprofits like.

But Lami Afghan Foundation.

I've submitted 27 data packages on families, and three of those have gotten to the United States now.

So I'm hopeful that I can get the other 24 here because they are very good people.

They get go through a huge vetting process, and it is legal immigration.

And I'm very hopeful that we can get that turned back on.

All right.

Get a job.

Bashir, a director of the refugee department at Catholic Charities Family and Community Services.

How do you see this order?

well, let me start from, the last point that you mentioned about the president's promise to loving, immigration, legal immigration.

this is the second term of, his presidency.

And, during the first term, when we when we see what happened, refugee and refugee is illegal immigration.

It is more legal than the others because the vetting process itself takes about, on average, two years.

once the case is handed to the US, government.

So it is the most awaited, the most safe program, that has been going on for, many decades.

But during the first administration, the number of refugees that are coming in this way is diminishing from about 50,000 from, first year of, President Trump's administration to, 11,000 or 18,000.

So even though there is a promise that the president loves, legal immigration, that is not what we saw in the first, presidency.

and, now, the the biggest issue we have is the uncertainty.

we have, discussed about the HIV programs, the special immigration, visa programs.

And, this morning we received a notice from our national office that says all refugee admissions is halted, is stopped, even though the executive order says starting from January 26th, it is stopped.

Right now, all three arrival preparation work is also stopped.

But this the recent notice that we received says the HIV program is exempt from this.

But again, there is uncertainty going forward.

What is going to happen?

And again, the the order that Getachew was talking about, which was slated for this coming Monday, apparently enforced now and going forward.

Exactly.

I've been reading stories about their people almost getting on planes who are literally told you're not getting on that plane.

Is that correct?

Matt?

Well, the way it is halted is stopped immediately.

All booked arrivals are canceled and there will not be any future booking until further notice.

Okay.

Ellen, have you heard that kind of description of what's going on?

We literally see people almost getting ready to get on a plane, and all of a sudden.

Yeah.

BBC two had an article yesterday, that indicated that, Afghans were actually taken off a plane that were scheduled to leave.

I've not been able to get that translated into English, so I don't know.

exactly.

But I mean, I trust the BBC and they're reporting on this.

but I mean, the crazy thing is, like, I have a family, an Afghan family right now in Rwanda, and they have gone through extreme vetting.

They were asked eight weeks to go, eight weeks ago to do an extreme vetting form.

Then they were asked again two weeks ago to do the same form.

And then they were just asked this morning to do the exact and from Bob Johnson, auto Group, proud supporter of connections with Evan Dawson, believing an informed public makes for a stronger community.

Bob Johnson Auto group.com.

All right.

Let's try this.

Now.

I can hear it again.

I it's nice to be with you.

connections here.

Ivan Dawson from our Sky Studios.

Thanks for hanging in there.

As we, tweak a little bit of that tech there.

People, much smarter than me are working on this problem.

And speaking of people much smarter than me, there are four of them on this program.

We are talking this hour about the executive order from Donald Trump from the white House and President Trump, putting forward this order to halt refugee arrivals in the United States and what that means immediately, what that could mean going forward, what programs it affects and doesn't affect, and maybe the intent and what's behind it.

we're talking to Ellen Smith in studio, the founder and executive director of keeping Our Promise.

Get a Chao Bashir, who's director of the refugee depart department of Catholic Charities, family and community Services, and on the line, General John Bradley, a retired lieutenant general in the United States Air Force, co-founder of the Lamia Afghan Foundation Sean Vandiver, president and chairman of Afghan Evac.

I want to work through some questions that listeners already have on this, and I'm going to start on the phone with Angie calling from Western New York.

Hi, Angie.

Go ahead.

Hello.

Good.

Good afternoon.

Yvonne, Ellen, Judy, General Bradley, Sean and the audience of connections.

My name is Angie Matthews, and I'm the communications PR manager at War Relief Western New York.

This is the Rochester based office of an international humanitarian organization that partners with local communities to provide support for thousands of immigrants and refugees across the US.

And I want to join your voices and express that world.

We live Le Mans and urges President Donald Trump to reconsider this drastic action to pause the refugee resettlement program.

This program was formalized in 1980 by a law passed unanimously by the US Senate and signed by President Jimmy Carter, allowing a limited number of carefully vetted refugees who have fled a well-founded fear of persecution to rebuild their lives in the United States.

And let me tell you that according to their 2024 LifeWay research survey, 71% of evangelical Christians believe that the United States has a moral responsibility to receive refugees.

We want to point the Donald Trump administration to key biblically informed principles that reflect the real value of a miracle for American Christians that are in support of secure borders, while protecting persecuted Christians and other persecuted minority groups.

And that last but not least, can we invite everyone in our community, regardless of faith or backgrounds, to join us in signing the Christian statement urging the reinstatement of the U.S.

Refugee Admission Program?

That statement is available in our website at War Relief and in our social media platforms Instagram and Facebook.

Under what relief?

Western New York and, could only say together to stand for compassion and justice.

And thank you so much, Angie.

Thank you for the phone call.

I wonder if our guests in studio get a chat on Ellen if this is someone you've worked with.

yes.

I work with all the resettlement agencies here in Rochester.

one of the things I like to help with is housing.

and, you know, we we stand with our, with our friends at these agencies and support the statements.

Absolutely.

Get it?

Yeah.

Yeah.

World Relief is one of the resettlement agencies in Rochester, New York.

And, as a resettlement agency, what we do is those who are fearful of persecution in their home countries, who are victims and who have the last hope of coming here, like, places like Ukraine and establishing their lives.

These are the people whom we are working with, and these are the people who are now, affected and are unable to come, or some of them are unable to, join their families here.

Angie, thank you for the phone call.

Let me read an email that takes, a different view.

Again, we're talking about first, President Trump's executive order to, to stop refugee arrivals in this country.

Andrew writes to say, Evan, we've had open borders for too long.

This is just the first step, and it is the right one.

That is from Andrew.

So let's talk about that.

And let me start with Sean Vandiver from Afghani back.

Andrew, who is, someone who supports President Trump, support him in this election and is basically saying elections have consequences.

This is, the president's move on refugees is related to his concern about open borders, and he views it as the right step.

What do you think, Sean?

Well, look, I appreciate Andrew writing in, I live in San Diego.

I live at the United States Mexico border.

we don't have an open border.

Takes me three hours to get across the border.

and and what I want to say is we shouldn't conflate issues that are border issues with, what folks believe is a, a crisis of illegal immigration with refugees, refugees are legal.

Immigration and refugees are the most vetted.

Refugees are vetted more than most U.S service members.

Vetted more than.

I mean, many of these people have polygraphs, right?

But the United States Refugee Admissions Program is, like I said, the gold standard of vetting.

And, you know, one other way that many of these people were vetted is we we handed them our weapons and we said, hey, will you fight alongside us?

And they sure, sure did.

And oftentimes they saved our lives.

So I appreciate Andrew's input, but with due respect, with all respect, do you're wrong.

I do want to say one other thing.

And the extreme vetting that, refugees and sieves are going through right now was established by the Trump administration in his first term.

Okay.

So they're going through extreme vetting.

They have to show their Facebook accounts, all their emails, all their telephones, their telephone numbers.

They have to give the passport numbers of their family members and where they've lived.

If they were only, you know, in Pakistan for medical treatment for two months, they have to put that in their extreme vetting record.

There is absolutely a record on every single one of these families coming through.

And this was established under the Trump administration, and it continued under the Biden administration.

And it's what we have today.

General Bradley, if you can hear me, general, can you still hear me, general?

Yes.

Okay.

you're not as loud as earlier.

Yeah, I'm in and out a little bit here.

We're going to hang with it here.

What would you say to Andrew, who emailed and said that this is a response to the the perception of open borders?

Well, that's not what this is.

I understand his concern there.

And surely we need to do things about people stream across the border.

And we know a lot of people have come here illegally.

We know some of them have committed crimes.

Obviously we should handle that situation, but we should separate it from legal immigration.

People that are working for UN asylum, those are those can be legal and immigration, the P1, P2, the ceviche, those are legal immigration methods that both Sean and Ellen have told you have extreme vetting going on so that they can be cleared in.

Look, we've had immigration immigrants coming to this country forever and ever.

I mean, you know, President Trump is married to legal immigrants himself.

Over the course of his life, legal immigration is a good thing.

It's made America better.

And we should continue legal immigration.

We need to do something about illegal immigration.

That's what I'd say to him.

General.

Then what do you make as a possible?

What is your understanding about why this order was issued in the first place?

I think it got swept up into an overall, immigration, political issue for the campaign.

And of course, we we know that, first Trump administration and, people who worked for President Trump in the white House at that time had very definitive views about immigration.

They had views about Muslims coming to this country, which are not really, in accordance with the principles of our democracy.

And, so I think this just got all encapsulated in one big immigration executive order without looking at the impact on people who actually work for the United States, military work for the United States government and the embassy people like that, people, who worked for American NGOs.

I don't think they thought about that piece of it.

And I think it needs to be reviewed, and I think we'll see a change to it.

I'm hopeful that there will be and there's a lot of support on Capitol Hill for legal immigration like this and for PSV's.

Well, let me read a little bit of feedback that I want all of our guests to kind of weigh in on.

And, general, I'll start with you and then I'll turn to Sean and get a child, Ellen, as well.

Here.

Alissa.

Name?

Dallas says Trump, I'm sure, just wants to review this program because of the Biden history.

Dallas had some choice words for the Biden history and says that, essentially, isn't it logical?

This is just time for the new administration to review it?

he said, I would think that Trump said, he wants all immigrant flight programs to be reviewed.

And I would guess he says they are all being briefly paused to do that.

What do you think, general?

Well, that's probably true.

I it's it is a temporary pause.

It's a 90 day pass.

It can be renewed to go on another 90 days.

But administration officials need to look at this very carefully during this 90 days, Homeland security and the State Department would be involved in that.

But smart, good people need to look at this and determine which parts of immigration should be continued to be put on hold and which parts should continue.

There are many that need to continue, and there are people across the political spectrum that believe that as well.

It is my view on it.

Okay, Sean, what do you think?

Yeah.

Look, a few things, right?

I, I don't know how President Trump would tell, you know, my friend Abdul, whose mom is stuck in Kabul, moving from house to house all the time, hiding that she just they just need 90 days or more.

So Stephen Miller can review, whether or not she deserves to come here.

I, you know, it's.

We did this.

Did the, the U.S. rep isn't a secret.

It's enjoyed a long history of bipartisan support, the idea that they would need to review it in some ways.

Like, I get why you might think that if you don't scratch a little bit further, as soon as you start scratching deeper, you know that, like, none of this has happened in secret.

This has all sort of been around for a while.

and, and it's no secret that the, you know, one of Mr. Miller's targets was the United States Refugee Admissions program.

But I do think that it's I do think it's so important that people understand that legal immigration and that not having this program puts our national security at risk deeply.

But let me ask our guests in studio if they want to weigh in on that, too.

Alan Smith, you've got Dallas saying this looks like the president just wants a review.

The Biden administration, as I said before, continued Trump's extreme vetting procedures.

what we did was we increased the number of refugees we allowed into this country legally, again.

Right.

to previous numbers.

And I know there have been arguments about cities being overwhelmed with with refugees.

New York City had a lot of refugees or actually people who had crossed the border coming up from Texas that were shipped to New York City, Rochester, I believe we had 70 people, that were brought to a hotel in our city.

That's not what we are discussing.

That is not what has been placed on hold.

What has been placed on hold is the legal refugee system here in Rochester.

We can take these families and we have proven it time and time again.

They are doing well for my families.

I've got 40 families that have bought housing houses since 2018.

They are doing well here.

We're getting them settled places to live.

They're contributing members of our community, as are all the refugees.

They've bought houses.

I've got 45 houses now, 40 families.

Yes.

and you've helped a lot more families.

And there's.

We don't need to have a digression here.

But, listeners, if you want to look up the archives for conversations with keeping our promise, we've had many over the years.

I'm sure we will continue to, and I in a moment, we're going to talk a little bit more about what these organizations are going to be doing.

Get a check.

Do you want to weigh in to on this idea that maybe this is just a brief pause for the new administration to take stock of what's going on?

well, first we just need to, distinguish between legal immigration and algorithmic illegal immigration.

when we talk about legal immigration, as discussed, already refugees is one of them.

And it has been going on for many, many years, and it has no problem at all.

There is no need for review because, as discussed, there are vetting process, a strict vetting process in place.

And this is we do this because we have, moral obligation to help those, who are who do not have safe place to leave, as the leader of the free world, that we have moral obligation.

Some of the, words that these people are displaced from, we have been involved in them.

So, we just we have to fulfill those obligations.

And there is no, issue when it comes to refugees.

Since the time we have started resettling, there haven't been any kind of issue that needs or requires vetting.

So we need to distinguish between legal immigration and illegal immigration.

Okay.

And then related to that, that I think everyone can weigh in on to.

A number of listeners have pointed me to the statements made during the campaign by, then senator and now Vice President J.D.

Vance.

in one interview, he kind of mused that, at least in Afghanistan, everyone claims that they worked for the government.

Everyone wants to be an SIV.

The implication was it's being abused, that everyone is claiming something that they don't deserve.

and again, right now, it doesn't look like the SIV program is affected by this executive order on refugees.

But there's also a viewpoint that the new administration has expressed about asylum seekers and about refugees, which is that, that those kind of claims to status are abused.

So whether it's civs, whether it's refugees, whether it's asylum seekers, this administration seems to take a very restrictive view, a view that says, hey, those systems have been abused in the past.

We're not doing that again.

Even if that means we cut off the flow entirely right now.

What do you think of that?

Get a job?

As far as I know, when someone claims something, there must be evidence or proof to the claim.

And, we haven't seen I have been working with refugees for, over ten years, and we haven't seen any kind of abuse in the system.

in the, in the years that I have been working there and the other, instead of just completely stopping the process, there are ways to if there are any claims of this kind, there are ways to work on strengthening those processes.

And instead of just completely stopping the process, which has, real life consequence, there are families who have been who lived in refugee camps for 30 years.

We have one family, a single person who came here, after living in Kenya refugee camp for 30 years, and he came by himself, leaving behind his wife and children.

And now, he he cannot be rejoined with his family.

So it has real life consequence.

And there are other ways to do.

And what I want to emphasize is, I don't think all these claims, have, any merit to them.

as mentioned by one of, the, the participants here, we should really view the viewpoint of the people around the administration towards refugees and immigrants.

I think that is what we should focus on.

And instead of, stopping a process that is already working and serving the US interest and others, Ellen, have you encountered anyone who tried to abuse the SIV process?

okay.

So there was a case recently of, a U.S. citizen in Texas who was a contractor, and he was found that he people could pay him for letters and he was arrested.

I don't know all the details of the case, but you know what?

This was a 20 year war.

And look at how many people worked for the United States.

There's over 70,000.

I believe Sean may know the number, but something like 70,000 people in the last government report that are interview ready.

So they've they've passed that approval stage and or the, the, the main person has.

And so now it's time to interview, you know, the husband and the wife and the and the children.

so I'm not going to say that the program has been 100% free from corruption.

but I can also point back to an American that that had done that with the letters of recommendation that are needed for someone who worked for them and was discovered and dealt with, and it was discovered and dealt with.

Yes.

Okay.

Yes.

Sean, do you want to add to that?

Why?

They're shocked that I was it was like, yeah, I'm here.

look, it's just I don't have a lot more to say other than that.

This has been heartbreaking by phone since we've been on on this call has been full of Afghans reaching out, saying, please help, please help, please help.

What do we do?

What do we do?

What do we do and what we're saying?

We're imploring being kind of administration that that we're worried about sibs being impacted.

We're hopeful that they don't.

We're hopeful that SOBs are just left alone.

but refugees are already being impacted, right?

They're already being pulled off and the State Department is running around very confused.

They don't know what to do yet.

What we're hearing from inside is that it's being managed very poorly.

and we think that's just like, you know, growing pains of an early administration.

But we have an obligation here that we've got to get through.

We've got to take care of these folks and savvy as mandated by law.

But last time it got slowed down through just checking things out, right.

So we don't want to see we don't want to see things slow down because people are, are using, just checking things out as a, as an excuse.

And we believe because he said it, said National Security Advisor Mike Waltz is a, is a strident supporter of Afghans, and we hope that he will be very directive in his approach to the, interagency that he manages.

General Bradley, do you want to add to that?

Explained it very well.

I would say that then Senator JD Vance was, maybe hyperbolic in saying that it's been badly abused by Afghans.

It hasn't, because the first requirements for submitting the application is you have to have a letter from the human resources department of the contractor for whom you work.

If you're an Afghan submitting that service.

I have not heard of hardly.

I have heard of hardly any who have ever tried to submit a faulty application.

I'm glad they caught this guy in Texas, and I hope he's prosecuted and dealt with the appropriate way in the justice system.

But the majority of Afghans are not doing things like that.

They are trying to come here in the proper through the proper process, and they are filling their forms out the way they're supposed to, and they're being vetted, I think, up the, a man years ago whose children need help come to the United States to go to college.

Years ago, many years ago, it took him more than ten years to be approved for his service.

He was an interpreter for the U.S. Army in Afghanistan in 2005, and it took him more than ten years to get here.

It's an incredibly difficult vetting process.

It takes way too long.

It could be done better and more efficiently, I'm sure, but it is a very thorough vetting.

And and I think the program needs to continue.

I want to add one more thing.

Yeah.

Go ahead.

And this is about vetting.

So I have a case in Rwanda.

And this is when our system died before.

And he was asked to do the extreme vetting form eight weeks ago.

Then he was asked two weeks ago to do the exact same form again and resubmitted to the embassy.

And this morning he was asked to do the exact same form again and resubmit it to the embassy.

He has done this three times.

Three times.

His answers have not changed and they're not going change.

Same form a DSS 5535.

It's not going to change.

So I I'm not sure like how much more extreme anybody wants.

But the other thing is there's still an active court case with the International Refugee Assistance Project against the government because the savvy program is to take nine months.

And and they are still under a court order.

The US is under an order to make this work.

So these cases are processed within nine months, but it is not working and it is never worked.

I want to read two more emails from listeners, on these subjects as we talk about refugees and this executive order from President Trump halting the flow of refugees for now.

And then before the hour's up, I want, some of our listeners have asked how to support the various organizations, for really heavy hitting organizations represented on the program today.

And they'll tell you a little bit more about what they are doing and, and what they need next.

But let me just hit a couple of more, listener emails.

So Dallas followed up with a question about what the United States is actually doing in terms of foreign aid.

He says, if we're paying the Taliban $1 billion a year in aid, can we just tell them not to kill the sieves?

Where does that money go?

Do we do we give aid to the Taliban government?

Own that.

You understand?

It's my understanding that, the aid is going as humanitarian aid.

Okay, and let me ask, Sean and General Bradley if they want.

I mean, Sean, anything you want to add there?

Yeah.

Look, you know, we've seen news reports out there that that's happening.

And, what we've heard from the U.N. and what we've heard from others is that that's sort of a misnomer.

Like, that's not our bailiwick.

We don't deal with that.

The the, the what we understand is that it's all money going in for aid.

And if the Taliban is intercepting that, I know that there's measures that are taken to to address that.

So, Yeah.

Look, it's you can't believe everything you see on the internet.

And anybody who said that needs to come with receipts.

and it may be true that the Taliban is intercepting some of that, right, that that would be terrible.

but we got to keep, you know, people still need our help.

And we we were there for 20 years.

So I think we have an obligation that, foreign aid is less than 1% of our of our national budget.

So I don't like I don't really understand the focus on that.

Okay.

General Bradley.

My wife asked me questions about this all the time.

You're about of tyranny.

That's a that's a good thing that we do.

And hopefully the Taliban don't intercept it and use it just for their own people.

It goes to the people that are most needy.

But I see reports my wife tells me she sees things on LinkedIn.

We have a Tennessee congressman, a Knoxville, Tennessee area who is on the internet all the time complaining that we're sending $40 million a week to the Taliban, to their banks, to for them to use $40 million a week, that I have never seen any evidence of that whatsoever.

It is I think it's fake news.

But this Congressman Pritchett is not producing evidence to show that it's true.

But he talks about it, and people online just run with that because they believe really think they hear or see, particularly if it's bad news.

So I've never been I've never believed that we're doing that.

I do believe we send humanitarian aid, which I think we should do.

We send humanitarian aid all over the world and we've been doing that for decades.

And I think we should continue helping very, maybe Afghan families.

One other aspect of this, and Dallas will tell me if I'm interpreting this incorrectly.

But, Ellen, I think when you and I talk about the civvies that you have brought to our region, I say you, you're a force of nature.

But your organization, our, when we've talked about that, you've been clear about the threat to their lives.

If they don't get these civvies.

Grant.

Absolutely.

And part of what I think Dallas is saying is, absent bringing more civvies, can't they just stay in Afghanistan?

And we tell the Taliban, if you want this billion dollars in humanitarian aid every year, it's on the condition that you don't kill any of these people.

And is that a solution?

The Taliban hasn't really listened to us before.

Is that right?

Have they.

No, I don't I, I think that I'm shocked.

The general the general is shocked.

okay.

So, but part of I think Alan he's saying is, well, then just cut the aid if they're not going to listen, but I, I don't know what good that does.

I mean, we do have to keep a conversation going with the Taliban to get civvies here and to get our and to get our two visa holders here.

okay.

And briefly, Roger says, we cannot ignore the racial component to this type of policy.

The white population is shrinking and other racial groups are increasing in numbers.

Many white folks consider this threatening to their power in this country.

That's an email from Roger.

I'll go around the panel here, get a chat.

What do you make of that?

well, I think if we look at, the US, it is, originally a country of immigrants and as long as we are behind the same ideals as a country, it doesn't have to be black or white or we don't have to worry about colors.

So what it what matters is just to have a common, a common belief in one country and a common, attempt to make this country better, regardless of who he is or who is, in the country.

So this shouldn't be a big issue.

Ellen, briefly, do you see a racial component to this?

look, none of us, I dare say none of us belong here because this was Native American land.

We are all immigrants.

We are all immigrants.

And I just don't go that this is a white country or whatever.

I, I don't know any Native Americans personally.

None of us belong here.

My farm is on Native American land once upon a time, so I just don't buy that argument.

I love living in Rochester because of the diversity in this community.

This is what makes it a great community, and I love it.

General Bradley, what do you make of Roger's point there?

I, I personally have no concern whatsoever about the percentages of colors of people in this country.

I'm a almost 80 year old white guy living in Tennessee now, and I was raised in Tennessee, but I served in the U.S. Air Force for a long time.

And I believe diversity is a very good thing in any organization in any country.

And I think immigration is good and has made America.

Immigration has made America a better place.

I am not concerned about ratios whatsoever.

Now, that being said, I know there are people who actually do think it's a problem, but I don't.

Okay, Sean, brief comments from you on this.

Yeah, I do echo what General Bradley said.

I and what Ellen said, and I just don't operating from a place of fear of people that have stood by us in our longest war doesn't compute for me, right?

Like.

It just doesn't compute for me.

And I think there's a dog whistle, things that we just shouldn't.

In fact, when people bring things like that up, we should ask them, what do they mean, exactly?

because acting like there's any other.

Yeah.

Anyway, I just reject that notion.

And I think that people need to really reflect, last two minutes.

So let me give you all 30s apiece, and I'll start with you.

Sean Vandiver, Afghan evac.

Where do you want people to learn more about your organization and what can they do?

Sure.

there's three things you could do.

You can go to Afghani, Baghdad, org slash donate.

You can donate.

You can go to Afghan evac.org/transition desk letter and sign on to a letter to the incoming administration saying that you want to see this, this change, be, reversed.

And you can, share everything you see on social media.

please join us today.

thank you, general John Bradley, where do you want people to learn about the Afghan Foundation that we support Afghan girls education.

We have an Afghan women's medical clinic with a young Afghan woman doctor.

There aren't many of those.

They can they could go to, Bila Maya, la Maya 40 and donate.

We're going to continue.

I love keeping our promise in Rochester.

A lot of Afghan evac because they've been so effective.

But we're trying to educate girls and allow me a foundation.

And if you want to help, we would love to have your help.

Ellen Smith, founder and executive director of Keeping Our Promise.

people can go to keeping our promise.org.

We're always, interested in financial donations and in volunteers.

We have a May 1st gala coming up at the Iran Decoy Country Club in Pittsford.

And we're looking for gala sponsors, and we hope to see our local folks there and get a job.

Bashir, director of the refugee department at Catholic Charities Family Community Services.

We have lots of, refugees already in our communities and whoever is interested in helping, we you can find us at Catholic Charities Family and Community services.org.

I want to thank our guests for taking the time to talk about this issue.

And, I think in sober terms about where we are and where could go next.

And we'll be following that to get a child.

Be sure.

Thank you for making the time.

It's nice to see you in studio here.

Thank you for having Alan Smith from keeping our promise.

I know we'll see you again soon.

Thank you very much.

Thank you.

Always.

Nice to see you.

And on the line, Sean Vandiver, Afghan evac.

Sean and honor.

Thanks for being with us.

Thank you.

General John Bradley from the Lami Afghan Foundation doing pretty remarkable work.

It's nice to have you back, general.

Good talking to you.

You're welcome.

Thank you for covering this important subject.

And we just love talking as great.

Talking to the general and listeners, thank you for a robust two hours today for hanging in there with us from the whole team of connections.

Thank you for listening.

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