From Sky news.

This is connections.

I'm Evan Dawson.

Our connection this hour was made on May 19th, 1928, in New Rochelle, New York.

On that day, a future civil rights leader was born.

Constance Mitchell, or Connie as she was best known, was the first African-American woman elected in Monroe County.

In 1961, she was elected to the Monroe County Board of Supervisors.

What's now called the Under county legislature.

That election was preceded by many years of political and social activism here in Rochester, and also in places like Selma, Alabama.

She marched with Doctor Martin Luther King, Jr. Malcolm X was a guest in her home.

If you aren't familiar with Connie Mitchell's story, really should be.

And our guest this hour.

Hope that a new book will help families throughout our area and beyond.

Learn about Connie Mitchell's life and legacy.

The book is called Constance Mitchell Stands Up.

Coauthors Leslie C Youngblood, Doctor Walch Cooper, Shane Wiegand, and Mitchell's daughter, Constance Mitchell Jefferson tell her story in this new book, which is beautifully illustrated by artist Sean Dunwoody.

They're talking to us this hour about how this book came together, but this is really a conversation as well, about whether we understand our past, whether we understand the civil rights heroes and leaders among us and those who've come before us, and how the contact of this work fits into this.

I don't know, this week, this moment in American history.

if you're following along on the Sky news YouTube page, I'm holding the book here.

I'm sure we'll be able to show you some visuals here.

It's beautifully done.

Sean Dunwoody, great job here.

but let me say hello to everybody in the studio.

First of all, Constance Mitchell Jefferson is Constance Mitchell's daughter and coauthor of Constance Mitchell stands up.

Welcome back.

Always.

Thank you.

Good to see you, too.

And welcome to Leslie C Youngblood, co author of Constance Mitchell Stands Up.

Welcome back to you.

Thanks for having me.

Sean Dunwoody, artist and illustrator.

Nice to see you.

You know always good to see you, brother.

And Shane Wiegand, co author.

And by the way, co-director of our local history.

This is right up your alley.

It sure is.

It's great to be here, Evan.

Great to have you with us here.

What's this?

How did this come together in the first place?

Constance?

Well, I think it came together because of the work that Shawn have that Shane was doing with the city school district and with the school districts around anti-racism curriculum.

about five years ago.

Was it Shane?

He contacted me and he said, I'm Shane.

And, you know, I do this program on your mom and dad.

And he started talking to me about stuff.

And I was like, really?

You know, things about my mom that I didn't even know.

He sent me articles.

I mean, like, I have jaws and Jaws and Jaws.

So he was like, yeah, yeah.

So he sent me like, articles and I'm like, where did you find all of this stuff?

You know, so, that's how we began the conversation.

And they had a curriculum that they were using, but they wanted to get something that was a little bit more substantial.

And so about two years ago, I met Leslie.

Yes.

and she said, I'm a children's author.

And, you know, we want to do this curriculum around the book, but we want to make sure that it's geared towards children.

So that's how we began the conversation.

you know, we'll talk a little about some of the stories here.

I find it fascinating that Shane came in with stuff that maybe even the descendants didn't know.

But when you think about your mother, as I said, off the top here, a civil rights hero in our community.

What comes to mind for you first when you think about your mom?

Of course, first and foremost as being mom, you know, everybody knew her as this, activist, as this community activist, civil rights person, this politician, the mover and shaker.

I knew her as mom and, she grew to learn to love her as all of those other things as I got older.

But when I was younger, it was just, you know, mom.

And as I got into my early teens, it was my best friend.

And and then as I got into my 20s, you know, it was dealing with her as one woman to another woman and then, you know, getting married and having a family and talking to it.

We started talking about being a mother.

And so the my transition and my my relationship and my understanding of my mom is very multifaceted.

all of it comes from a point of love.

First and foremost.

But respect.

Next to that, was there a moment in your childhood where it really occurred to you that your mother was kind of a big deal?

Yeah.

There were a lot of moments, like that.

I think, some of them would be, of course, when I was younger, you know, all these people used to always be in our house, and I couldn't understand why all these people were in our house and what were they doing there.

And so when we lived on Greg Street, my bedroom was off the back of the house and the living room, and everything was off of the kitchen and my, the, the living room in the dining room was towards the front of the house.

And I remember sneaking out and sitting next to the stove and peeking out and like, who in the heck are all these people?

you know, I've been told I don't really remember it that much, but I have been told.

But I now even have pictures of me sitting on like Dick Gregory's lap or me sitting on, like Doctor Cooper's lap or Doctor Anderson's lap or, you know, my dad's or my mom's or, you know, things like that.

So I knew that that was one thing.

But then when I got in my teens and I'd walk through Midtown Plaza, there was the tree, you know, with a clock, and everybody used to sit around the tree.

Other little old people, and they'd say, honey, can you come here?

And I'd be like, yes, ma'am.

And they'd be like, baby, I don't know what your name is, but I know whose child you are because you look just like you.

So.

And I've always had that all my life.

People say, do I know you?

You know.

And I'm like, oh, no, I don't think so.

You look like somebody I know, you know.

So it was, it was at that point where I began to realize, I think in my early teens, that there was something more to her just being my mom.

And that's, that's a credit to your mother that, she was all of those things to you.

But a mother first.

when you think about her civil rights legacy, which we're going to talk more about here, what's the most important thing that that, I mean, I, I guess what I want to ask you is if our kids in this community are going to truly understand these kind of stories and they can't know everything, what do you really want them to know about your mom?

First, that she was a woman of integrity.

that she was a very intelligent person.

She understood human nature and she understood people.

she looked at people based upon how they treated her.

Not necessarily the color of their skin or, you know, their gender or anything like that.

she was just, you know, that type of person that came and she came from a humble perspective.

And I think a lot of people would assume because of other accolades that she had and all the things that she accomplished in her life, that she would probably have this huge ego or whatever.

My mother, up until the day she died, was probably one of the most humble people, you know.

And I was saying to Shane that with this book, when when I first got the first copy of the book and I held it in my hand, it was like in my ears, I could hear her saying this, everybody just do this for me.

You know, that's the thing, because that's the kind of person she was.

She, you know, she she didn't do what she did to get accolades.

She did what she did because she really wanted to make a difference.

Constance, when I first encountered Leslie, see Youngbloods writing it was with love, love like Sky.

And sometimes you, you know, we pick up dozens, hundreds of books a year for this program.

And that was one of those ones that producer Megan Mack and I were like, no, no, like, this is she is really impressive as a storyteller, as a voice for, you know, kids.

I mean, really an amazing writer.

How did you get I mean, I mean, you you talked a little about meeting her a couple years ago, but how do you feel about getting hooked up to to write this story and working with someone like Leslie?

Oh, I'm just honored that, you know, she felt as though this was a project that she wanted to be involved in.

I think, you know, her accolades and the things that she has accomplished in her life.

You know, you would say, okay, a little 20 page book may not be something that she'd be thinking she'd want to, you know, get involved in, but I think she looked at it from the bigger perspective, and she looked at it from the fact that it was going to be a learning tool for children.

So I can't speak for that's what I feel.

The pleasure was all mine, even to to have this be my first, picture book and also my first nonfiction, work, the pleasure was all mine to not only, work with Shane and have, and Sean and, Constance, but to know that I would be a part of a group that was presenting this to, the children in general, but especially children of color and Rochester, New York.

So the honor was all mine.

Constance.

Thank you.

What was your process like all working together here?

A lot of, Google Drive.

That was a big thing.

that was, you know, that was new.

And when you're when you're used to working with fiction to be able to, you know, see the notes and to try to transcribe those notes into something that has a little edge of the fictional structure because you want people to keep reading, but making sure that it's accurate, making sure that, I'm not making it too long, but not leaving important things out.

So pretty much the same structure that I follow in fiction, but just making sure that I stick to the facts and and do the best job I could to represent, someone who deserves it so much.

But I also think there were so many facts that we gave, right?

And there was so much.

And it was like for me, I was so curious to see what the end result was going to look like, because we talked for hours.

We did it.

And I think that, you know, I was like, okay, she got the good points.

She got the things that, you know, I would have wanted children to learn about my mom.

you know.

So then someone asked me the other day, well, what's the next step?

And I was just telling them downstairs.

Somebody asked me the other day, so now what's the next step?

I said, well, the next step for me might be, you know, two things.

One, I'd want that book to, kind of be recognized on a national level because there's a lot of parents that are still homeschooling their children after Covid, and there's not a lot of, you know, these types of books about black history and stuff that are out there for young children to get them around, conversations around, you know, racism and, and, and you standing up for yourself and stuff like that.

And then finally it would be to take it to the next level to have like the next level book.

This is kind of geared towards, elementary school, you know, two second or third graders maybe I've learned something that would maybe go for like six to eighth graders.

Sure.

Yeah.

I have four.

So this one is geared middle grade for the young and young at heart.

But always, you know, ages up.

But a young adult.

Very I mean that's like literally your jam.

Yeah.

That's my forte.

So maybe there's more on the horizon.

before we even talk to your colleagues across the table as we talk about this book, Constance Mitchell stands up.

Where can people get it?

Can can people get to know?

Yeah, you can get it at hippocampal children's bookstore.

You can get it on, Amazon, Barnes and Noble.

You can also get it on our website, Corgi, our local history.

And that's where you can get it for the cheapest price.

So each of those options are there.

And then most, majority of the profits will go into donating books to students in our Ccsd schools.

So second grade, if you're listening, you know, if you're watching on our WXXI news YouTube channel, you may know Shane Wiegand, you may not.

And I want to talk to you a little bit about your your ideas about educating because not to oversell it, but Shane is someone who has gained a tremendous amount of respect in this community as an educator, as someone who wants to really peel back authentic history and understand it and not run from it.

and to make sure kids get that experience in a way that is, that is appropriate for the age, but not scared of what that means.

so Shane is someone who the first time came on this program, I was sort of blown away years ago.

And now you're doing this work with our local history.

You believe so much.

And making sure that kids get an unflinching look at history that is appropriate to their age.

But but honest.

Tell me how this factors in and tell me why this you think is going to be an important piece.

I think how this factors in as well.

First, we needed something in the early grades where kids could latch on to a story, not a not a whole huge social studies lesson, but something that tied right in to the New York State standards around how do we create safe, kind, and fair communities where we celebrate difference and how do we make change?

That's right.

In the Ela and Social Studies standards from kindergarten through 12th grade.

But at second grade, we really saw a need with the state standards to tell that story.

And I'd written an early version of this book with Doctor Cooper about Connie Mitchell and her story, and she just resonated more than almost any other local civil rights leader with my kids.

They just loved that this like, everyday lady who loved pizza, who like, wore the coolest jackets and had these amazing like cat eye glasses was like getting up in front of all these big scary white guys and like telling them what was what, like, you know what I mean?

And they love when Doctor Cooper told them, like, the boys were all afraid to run because we lose our jobs.

And Connie was the only brave one that blew us away.

You know, the kids got that story.

And so when my fourth graders and I read Love Like Sky, they connected with those characters and love Leslie's writing.

And I felt like, okay, if we ever get some grant funding someday, we got to figure out how to bring all of this together and tell a beautiful children's story.

And slowly it started to come together, because what we want kids to see is that change happens even in the hardest of times, like we can feel right now.

It was like that in 1950s when Connie Mitchell started to get involved.

When you think of who is in charge of Rochester in 1958, when she first started getting engaged with the Delta Six at Baden Street, it I can't imagine how she and her friends, Doctor Cooper, Bill Lee of a bunch of others, Hannah Storrs, they get organized and say, now we're going to we're going to run for office and have our first black elected official.

And they lose and they do it again.

And the next time Connie doesn't do it on big speeches, she does it by going door to door with a mug of coffee and a big bag of sugar just rolling up her sleeves.

Which is why I love the cover that Sean illustrated so much.

Any kid can relate to how she did it.

She knocked on doors, she used her personality, she made connections.

She didn't do any of it alone.

And that's key.

You look at Doctor King and you're like, I could never be that great of a speaker, I never could.

Most of us can't.

There's only one doctor, Martin Luther King, but any of us could be Connie Mitchell.

I mean, we can't, but, like, we can get involved the way she did.

She's one of us here in Rochester.

Well, it had to be Sean Dunn, but he didn't.

Of course.

so this is the cover that Shane's talking about.

But there's so much great art here.

how did they pull you in this?

And what does it mean to you to be involved with this one?

I don't remember how I got pulled into this, I think.

I think Leslie called me one day, and I'm like, Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm down with this.

I'm down with this.

I'm down for whatever.

Let's make it happen.

if we if we can, tell this story, let's do it.

And, it was it was really trying to understand from from Leslie's writing and from Constance and from Shane and and Keisha, all these folks.

You know what?

How do how do we tell this story?

How do we tell this story in a visual sense?

that's that's appealing under sustained.

Understandable.

not abrasive, but inviting.

So it's like, how do we how do we tell this story?

And so, after reading through Leslie's writing and discussions, I, I fed off of the idea of mom, since I felt that was that was the beginning of the stance, as you talk about that, Shane, I felt that was a stance.

You know, the the coffee, walking around with the with the coffee warmer and carrying you.

I felt that was that was the strongest point to do, to go door to door and carrying you around and saying, hey, let's talk over coffee about what I'm running for.

That's a lot.

That's that's a superwoman there.

and so I felt, you know, with the with the standing up and the rising, I felt that it reminded me of I think I gave the pitch of, of let's look at this like a wonder woman that, that, that, that, that anybody.

Moves.

So that's why you have that sort of rainbow, that one picture in of like the center of the book where it's like all of these different, you know, things colliding into one.

That was that's what I thought of.

I said, this is almost like, you know, those old Batman Cups.

I can't that's, that's a that's how I wanted it.

She was she was a superwoman.

So why not, why not why not play it as it is a super character?

Is it?

So you get the panel where it's all broken up.

It's like, oh, there's an accident.

Oh, there's a snowstorm.

All.

There's all this other stuff.

It's like, connected chaos.

And I felt, let's really tell that story and have it be vibrant and connected to young people.

and the choice of, of watercolor, was, sort of connected to, when they were talking earlier about getting this into school curriculums.

so if they can get these books in their hands, this is also way to attach it to another, avenue of learning.

So you can actually take this book into your art class and you can have our second graders and third graders work with watercolors so they can understand, hey, I'm painting the same way that this book is written about Constance Mitchell.

So you can find other avenues to find connection points.

So I thought it was a great experience, a great way to work, with this team.

it took me a little time to figure out what to do.

They're like, what are you doing, man?

Come on, man, it was one time we gotta get it going.

But sometimes I have to live with the peace and be with it.

So it was a great experience.

I loved it, love it.

Change.

You want to jump in on that?

So kids have loved the art and they're like, how did he do it?

And so we created a PowerPoint with the rough drafts.

So we have the pencil sketches, so rough rough sketch, color sketches and then the finals all in one slide.

And when kids in art classes are looking at this, they're, they're like, whoa, I like it.

That's been the coolest thing.

The kids have loved the way.

And I wanted to do something that, you know, I didn't want to do anything digital.

I wanted to.

I mean, I didn't do this.

Oh, no, some of it, some.

No, no, no, no, but I wanted it to be.

So when I had talked to these, the folks earlier, I said, I'm going to do these, I'm going to do actually paint these, because there might be a point in time where this travels or you want to do something with it, and you actually have hard copy watercolor, paintings.

pencil sketches, roughs that you could show the process and you can actually touch them and feel them.

So I felt like, let's, let's create a legacy along with this that travels with the name of Constance and travels with this book.

And let's have some physical, tactile things that people can engage with.

And may I, yeah, it's of teachers.

No.

All right.

No, I writing you and this book.

Let's make that clear.

guys, I think I'd like to touch on that.

You did?

Was in addition to the watercolors you provided, still life pictures.

So that kind of drew it home.

So that they could kind of look at.

Okay, well, here is the real Constance Mitchell.

And here's the, like, this painting.

Yeah, there's the painting of running for office there.

Yeah, there it is.

Sean, you want to talk about the kind of that approach there?

You know, the, the Batman superhero approach combined with some of the the more real life stuff.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was it was one of those things where we wanted to, when talking to them, it was like, you know, which which pages are we going to really illustrate, and what things are we going to tell?

and I just I just felt it was.

I felt I wanted to once again attach it to the superhero thing.

So like the page where she's, you know, she's got to answer the phone, she's doing hair, she's typing, she's watching.

It's like all these things that are happening, which, connects to another thing, Charlie's Angels.

And so I wanted to show that another talent of powerful, powerful people who are doing things, and sort of the connection to the cover as well, reminded me of, why am I not remembering the artist name?

But there's a there's a, a Harriet Tubman portrait of her rolling up her sleeves and getting to work.

And so I wanted that connection to be there.

So it's and but to have the real photographs, I can say, oh, that's that's what was really going on.

And that's what she looks like.

And this good world did an excellent job of tying in the watercolor touches here and there throughout.

just it was just it was just a great juxtaposition to have the real photographs next to, the portraits and thing else.

And I want to ask you shown, you know, you talked about wanting to kind of live with the piece or live with the story first, and then understand how you want to approach creating a visual piece of art or a series of pieces of art.

But how much did you over this, this sequence here feel like you really did get to know this person in a way that you didn't.

And and how has it affected you personally?

Oh, yes.

once I, I've always known of Constance.

I always saluted Constance Mitchell and, you know, just to be, hands on deck with this and really have to do my own research and and gave you a call and talking to Leslie.

Talking to Shane, it became like, yes, this is this is something, that I appreciate.

And I have the utmost respect for, Miss Mitchell and what she had done.

And it's and, and in these days and times, I'm like, this is really needed.

This is needed to see, a black woman stand up and move something forward.

You know, we just we just saw that, just past this past year.

she stood up for something, and that didn't win the first time, right?

It wasn't right.

But you keep going at it.

And I think this book and this movement and what was happening just resonates at this time for for young people of color, black women in particular, and young girls to understand that strength.

And so I was attaching that in that regard to say, hey, you know what, if I can help move this message along as I'm traveling through life about what Constance did and what young people can do today, that's what really touched me and really gave me a greater understanding as to who she is in the shape of Rochester in the climate of the world.

Well, you say in these days and times, well, I don't know what you're talking.

Oh, I there's nothing going on.

We're all living on Sesame Street.

Shaun Dunwoody, the author, the illustrator, Constance Mitchell Jefferson is with us.

Leslie C Youngblood, Shane Wiegand, all coauthors of the book that we're talking about, Constance Mitchell stands up.

And if they're successful as they want to be, they're gonna have to get multiple printings of this book, put it in in a lot of kids hands, and then make the demand grow for Leslie C Youngblood to take the next step on, you know, the next age appropriate step up with that.

Is that imminent?

Is that going to happen here?

I hope so, and I think it's well deserved, as much needed.

And there are some things that we could dive a lot deeper into that would be for an older audience, that we have to maybe, you know, take down a notch for a younger audience.

But it deserves to be told on that young adult level.

after we take our only break of the hour, I do want to, in a very forthright way, engage a little bit more about this idea of what gets taught in history.

And certainly, you know, as a little cheeky, but everybody's feeling different ways.

Maybe you're feeling great this week about this country.

Maybe you're feeling fear or trepidation.

Whatever you are feeling, I hope this program is a place for you to be able to freely express that, to talk to people, to challenge ideas, to have your ideas challenged and to feel like that is, at the end of the day, constructive.

That's what we're going to try to do.

And when we come back, I want to talk about how we feel about history that might make us uncomfortable.

But as teachers like Shane have been doing for years, feeling like it is necessary that it is taught, because that's a part of the debate that's going on right now.

Certainly a new administration is in the white House with a very different view of education.

What gets taught, what the standards are, what the lessons are.

And advisers like Chris Rufo, one of the most powerful people in this country, it's a name that maybe, you know, maybe you don't.

He's been one of the most influential people in this country, advising this new administration about what gets taught, how to change the standards, what he doesn't like.

And that has had a powerful effect.

So we'll talk about that, and we'll talk about a lot more with our guests.

On the other side of the only break of the hour.

I'm Evan Dawson.

Friday on the next connections, my colleague Sara Abu Monti hosts.

The first five years of a child's life are crucial for language development, and within the deaf community, 90% of deaf children are born to hearing parents.

Sarah talks with researchers at the University of Rochester about a new tool that will help hearing parents gain fluency in American Sign Language.

Our second hour, a discussion about inclusivity in the hospitality industry.

Support for your public radio station comes from our members and from Mary Carrie Ola, center, proud supporter of connections with Evan Dawson, believing an informed and engaged community is a connected one.

Mary Carrie ola.org.

This is connections.

I'm Evan Dawson.

There's a good chance if you've got kids in school, they may encounter this book now and tomorrow is a big day for counselors.

Mitchell Jefferson.

What's going on tomorrow?

So tomorrow I will be doing the first of what I hope to be many talks at a, elementary school number four school here in Rochester.

And, I'll be reading the book to the students, and I'll be reading and answering their questions and telling them reading the story.

But add living more into the story, with them.

So it's like a discussion, and then they'll be able to ask me questions and things of that nature.

So where is this happening?

Number four, school number four.

going to be a great day I suspect will eventually be doing a lot of that, don't you think?

I hope so, I you know, I mean, I made myself available to Shane and the members of the local history organization and told him, I said, look, you know, if teachers are looking to do something a little different, you know, they're talk about the curriculum and all, but if they really want, you know, someone that can come in and talk personally, I'll make myself available.

So that's starting tomorrow.

But eventually, over time, maybe Shane, they will do more.

maybe schools will reach out more and you want to tell people if they are not familiar with our local history what your mission is.

Yeah.

Our local history, was birthed by teachers, trying to answer their students questions about did civil rights happen in Rochester?

And of course it did, hundreds, thousands of everyday people who work to fight against slavery, redlining and today for equity, all across our community.

And as we started answering those questions, we realized there is the need to do this well in a way that's developmentally appropriate for kids.

And it is in line with New York State standards and the New York State culture responsive framework.

So our mission is to empower and equip, inspire teachers and community members with the tools to explore their local history of civil rights through inquiry.

Equity in action.

Do individual teachers reach out to is it, administrators?

Is it, you know, a district, a board who reaches out?

Usually it's superintendents, principals, teachers.

We work with 22 local school districts, several charters as well as our Ccsd.

we've trained at this point about 30,000 people in their local history of civil rights in the Rochester area, running workshops on how to teach this history, or workshops, at nonprofits and businesses on how to learn the lessons of this history and decide for themselves what it means for their organization.

Have you had any districts or individuals tell you they were uncomfortable with what you brought to them?

people are uncomfortable before we come sometimes because they're worried that there's the scare tactics that are out there, that some say that we shouldn't tell these true stories about what happened in our community, or that it's indoctrination to tell the truth about what happened in our community, whereas instead we say we do inquiries.

We're not telling you what to think about what happened.

We're giving you primary sources, first person accounts, and an inquiry based lesson or resource for teachers in the community to talk, explore more across different racial, demographic, political lines and say, this happened in our community.

Here's how some people decided to try to solve this problem.

What can we learn from it?

From county?

There is so much to learn from how she tried to create change, no matter your political back or stripe or background.

Right?

But but don't you think some given this, given this political and cultural moment, some might say, okay, well, you can say that, but I know what you want me to think.

You're trying to get me to think a certain way.

Sure, I think some people see that.

But when we come in and we ground our work in restorative practices and group norms, we invite them to engage in the inquiry.

The thing I will say is they are making a choice to tell these stories, and that is a political choice, right?

For centuries in American schools, in my school, growing up in Webster, I didn't learn any local civil rights history.

I didn't learn that slavery happened in New York State.

I didn't learn about redlining.

It is a choice to teach all of the New Deal or all of civil rights.

If you want to do those things and you can't, it's impossible to get all of it.

But we want to elevate and amplify the stories of everyday people, not just heroes, which is a different idea of history, of how we teach.

And so that is something that the experts all across the country are saying is important, and how to talk about social studies and history.

We're just trying to bring in best practices and not just teach these local stories, but help teachers build safe, welcoming and affirming environments where kids grow up in school seeing not just one image of Harriet Tubman or Frederick Douglass during Black History Month, but learn about black history, Latinx history, LGBTQ history all year, not being told what to think about it, but being invited to decide what it means for them.

That's what our mission is really grounded in.

And the districts that get that, which I would say a majority really do, there are some that they're they're afraid or they have parents that are pushing back.

I think sometimes out of fear or ignorance, especially if I saw some of these news stories that are out there, I'd be worried.

I'd say, I don't want that in my classroom.

And that's why we do just as much in schools, in the community, at libraries and churches and say parents, community members, do it yourselves.

Give us feedback.

Let's make this better.

And on the whole, people are saying, oh, I can't believe I didn't know this about my community.

If we love our community, we're going to tell the truth about it, the good and the bad.

That's how we make something better.

And that's what I hope we do in this moment.

And let me just probe one other point that you're making there, that I think part of what you're saying is some of the fear that you encounter, in your view, is based on the way work like this.

Maybe not your specific work, but maybe work in this realm has been described, or even stereotyped or demagogue and so a fear rises.

Sure.

How would you describe the fear?

What do you think people are afraid of the truth.

it's hard to face the truth.

It was really hard for me when I first tried to answer my fourth graders questions.

1112 years ago.

And when a student asked me, what did your family learn about?

Did they benefit from redlining?

And I had to ask that question to my grandparents.

And I realized, yeah, the generational wealth, the way I bought my home, it comes from racism, like racist policy, is why I have a different level of wealth than a lot of people in this community, even as a teacher.

And that's hard for people to admit because it means, does that cheapen my family's story?

And the place that I got to was, no, it's part of my story.

I need to love all of my family's story.

I need to accept it.

I need to learn from it and and carry that forward, that that's what that is.

And I didn't choose to do it.

I didn't make redlining happen.

And yet I've benefited from it.

And that's really scary from people to think about.

Right.

It's scary to think my town Penfield, it's named for an enslaver.

My city, Rochester, named for an enslaver, right?

Like, oh, it's hard to feel that.

We just want to feel good sometimes.

But I feel like that.

That's a it's a cheap good.

I think there's something richer.

when we get in to the hard stuff, we talk about it together.

When you do that with kids who are hungry to just have the truth told to them, they know things aren't right.

They know that there's problems in the world.

How did people try to solve it before?

Has it always been like this?

The teacher that struggles is the one that gets up there and wants to give them a pat answer versus what we're trying to help teachers do is say there isn't one answer to these questions.

You all have the power in yourselves.

Like Constance and her friends, to build a world you want to see and to be a part of this larger story of good, bad and in the middle in our communities.

One other important point for you, and I want your colleagues to weigh in on this too.

But I'll be a little more blunt with sometimes what what I hear, it is a fear that white kids will be taught to hate being white.

I have never experienced that.

In ten years of teaching this history with fourth graders and in diverse classrooms with at least half white kids each year in my class who have left feeling that way.

Right.

you've never had kids leave feeling that way?

No, no.

Nor have I felt that way as a white person when I learn this history that I'm going to hate who I am, white is just one piece of my identity.

That's what's so powerful about this unit is it starts in second graders, is they learn about what Connie loved about herself, that she was a good dancer.

She could throw a good party.

She could get people out to vote.

Like, Connie was fun, like, you know, like.

And Connie loved herself.

Like, she had that near-death experience in the beginning of her life, and someone help save her life.

She helped saved a man's life after that, and then saw herself as part of a larger community because a larger community had helped save her when she was sick.

And that connection to our community, right.

That just feels so powerful to me.

If you're proud of who you are, you can make a difference.

In all of our lessons and units from K through 12.

Tell a story of be proud of who you are.

Be proud of your community by telling all of the truth about it, and learn from the different ways people have made a difference.

You don't need to give a speech.

You don't need to run for office.

You got to find the thing that's you that helps you do that.

It might be the arts, might be teaching, it might be in science.

But when you go into those places, how do you tell the truth to the people around you and bring them in when things aren't fair?

We got to stand up.

You got to stand up together.

That's a universal message that we can apply.

All right, let's go around the panel here.

Constance Mitchell Jefferson, you know, I he said I was just watching this a lot there.

how do you feel about the fear that some parents and educators have about teaching stories like this, among others?

I look at it as revisionist history.

I think that.

Regardless of what the story is or what happened in our past, we all need to know about it.

I don't think that it's something.

I mean, you know, like in the black family, you have generational stories.

So Grandma and grandpa will sit around and they'll tell, you know, the stories that their grandparents told them.

And then, you know, when you get the a parent and or grandparent, you're telling the stories to your grandkids that your grandparents are from their grandparents.

And so it's passed down and traditions, stories and stuff.

and that's not revisionist history to but but I think what happens is nowadays people don't want to think about the past.

They want to just concentrate on the future and move to the future.

But I've always said the belief from was raised that you can't figure out what you're going to, you know, where you came from, and if you're given revisionist history, then the direction you're going to go in in the future is not going to be authentic.

And so I think that, for me, you know, I look at the flip side of that, that statement that you made that people have the fear, white people have the fear that their white children will not like themselves.

Well, what about the black children who don't like themselves because of the injustices they've had to deal with?

And and the histories that have been passed down on their families, and the systemic lack of wealth building and generational curses and things of that nature.

So what about all of that that goes on on the flip side of that coin, with with black children.

So for me, when I hear that, I look at that and I go, really, you know, ignorance is bliss, I guess, you know, I don't think so, but maybe that's the direction folks want to go in nowadays.

Leslie C Youngblood, what do you think?

And also to piggyback on what Constance is saying, also, when kids are invisible, if you have a story and you have fiction, nonfiction, and there's no black people, there's no black main characters.

And I experienced this a lot.

And what fiction?

there you have a better chance of seeing a dog or a horse or a cat or anyone on the cover other than a black child.

So, you know, my work is important to put that black child on the cover.

And a quick story.

I was at a book signing, maybe hippocampal a Barnes and Noble, but a white woman was at my table and she wanted to buy a copy of Love Like Sky.

And her daughter was right next to her.

And, she was holding my book with, my character on the cover, and she's looking at the character and she's like, asking her daughter, who can I give this to?

Who?

You know, asking her daughter to think of a black friend that she can give the book to.

And the daughter was like, mom, I want to read it, you know, so so when you see a black person on the cover and when you.

Right, you just they just assume is if that means that to give kids the, experience of seeing Constance on the cover and understanding this story is for me to a book with a black kid on the cover is for all students.

It's not just for black students.

And it's not just relegated to Black History Month.

It's all the time, every day.

So I think that takes away the fear and love and work.

And standing up is universe.

So and we need to start thinking like that.

I keep praising love like Sky.

I just want to say we have to read, we have to read and we choose to read for the show.

Dozens of books a year.

There's plenty of books were like, yeah, you know, okay, I, I wouldn't be saying this if I didn't really feel this way.

It's such a beautiful book.

And thank you mean, I appreciate it.

I mean, it's just it's so good.

Sean, then what do you want to weigh in on some of this, this conversation about how do we educate?

How do we educate?

that's a that's a very good question.

And if and if white people are scared of losing their their whiteness, I try to approach things from a visual perspective, because he who controls the images controls your mind.

And so I think it's very important that, as, as Shane mentioned earlier, the story of being proud of who you are is, is, is a thread that resonates through everyone, whether you're African American, black, Latinx or Caucasian.

That is what makes you stand up for something.

I love that you said that.

And if we can instill pride in children, black and brown children and Caucasian children instill pride in who they are, I think we've done something phenomenal.

And it's not attached to, oh, you're bad because of this happened in this time period.

No, you're proud enough right now that you know that you can understand the story and say, hey, I don't want this to happen again on either angle or any side of life to, to, to witness, concepts.

Constance Mitchell have her pride in herself to go door to door to acknowledge that, someone like Frederick Douglass had pride in himself to to realize he had to learn to read, to move forward, to make change.

there's so many people who had to find pride and strength within themselves in order to move forward.

I think that's the story that needs to be there all the time.

It's not that, oh no, you couldn't handle it.

You weren't educated.

You couldn't think of it.

Look, black people built this damn country, so don't come with me with this stuff about you.

We wasn't this and we wasn't that.

And you gave us this.

No.

If it don't even get me started.

But it's important.

It's important.

It's important to do that.

And I find in the work that I do in traveling, all places, I end up telling, these stories.

I end up in small white towns a lot.

and I don't know how I end up there.

but once, once the stories are out and things, people are connected.

They understand that pride.

And so part of why I do what I do is because I want to be what I wanted to see when I was a kid, I wanted to see.

I wanted to see a black person, a black male producing art and creating it.

And I didn't see it.

So I said, I'm going to do that.

I'm going to have some pride in myself.

I'm going to stand up.

And you will then see a black man making artwork, and that's why I do it.

I think it's important.

And this connects back to Constance Mitchell and her stands up, and it needs to be resonated throughout all districts, all young people.

Be proud of who you are.

You don't have to have, too much pride and a lot of things that may have happened, but be proud of who you are and the changes that you can make in your future and those around you.

Exactly.

You said you don't want to get me started.

Are you not starting with.

this is this is the book I just want to mention again, before we get back to Constance, I want you to know that the book is going to be available now at hippocampal hippocampus books.

if not your child's classroom.

Soon to be Constance Mitchell stands up.

Go ahead.

So I just wanted to say, too, that, you know, if you look at my mom's life and you look at how she represented herself in this community, mom didn't see color.

and I think that goes back to her upbringing.

She grew up in New Rochelle, New York, which is a Packer community right outside of New York City.

And it was a very diverse community.

you know, my as a matter of fact, my mother's godmother was an Italian woman.

So I think that when you look at how she dealt with, you know, when when she when she left politics and she started out in the community and she started making connections, you know, in, Washington and Albany, you know, her.

The people that congregated to her were all white males.

Bobby Kennedy, Horton, Rockefeller, you know, all of those people, you know, that were in charge of government, called on her to ask for her opinion and and things of that nature.

I think when she started Prism, the program for Rochester to introduce students science and math through the IMC, Jack Hostetler and and John Berry, a Jack Bauer, they came to, my mom Danbury, and they said, hey, Connie, you know, you're a black woman.

Well, we want you to interface with with the, corporations in this town.

And we want you to create a, pre-college program.

you know, and then from through that, she went on to become a lot of people don't know, she became the president of the first, initial organization for the, make me the national association, for, for, what is now National Association for, pre-college, admissions as well as minority engineering.

And, and she founded help be it those findings of that those were all white males that she dealt with.

There were all white women that she dealt with.

It was it, you know, her as a as a person of color going and trying to make a difference, you know, in a white arena.

It was just her going in as a person trying to make a difference in, in, in the arena.

Well, let's listen to some of her words because we've got some of Constance Mitchell's words from a 20 2013 interview.

She she would have been 84 talking to, my former colleague Colombian beauty Hofer, and need to know, this was a conversation with Constance in 2013.

And Rob, let's go somewhere.

Number two.

First, this is Constance Mitchell talking about civil rights, energy in how different that was from 50 years prior.

I think it's two different types of energy.

I think then you had it was like excitement.

Now it's anger.

You have a lot of anger out there because things didn't move as fast as people expected them to.

And and I worry about it because, I know whenever we sit down, a group of us sit down, I can begin to all of a sudden hear the frustration and anger coming out that, why didn't this happen?

And why didn't that happen?

You know, change doesn't happen immediately.

It doesn't happen overnight.

you learn that as you get older.

It's it's interesting.

Constance, what do you make of your mother's point there about seeing the difference from excitement turned to anger.

She seemed to be concerned there.

That anger she's trying to kind of temper.

Some kind of emotional right now.

Oh, I'm hearing her voice.

Oh.

I'm sorry.

That's okay.

that that was my mom.

I mean, that was her.

She.

Like I said, she was a very good judge of people, and she knew how to read people, and she could read a room.

She could step in that room and tell you what the climate was in that room.

And within the next five minutes of being in there, people were like, okay, well, how did you figure this out?

Or what did you see that I didn't see or whatever, but she was just in tune to human nature and to people, are you okay if we play them?

Are you sure?

Yes, yes.

I want to get to your voice.

And, you know, because I've been saying to somebody, I said, you know, I gotta go get some of her old tapes and stuff because I haven't heard her voice and I want to hear her voice.

So hearing her voice just, like, caught me off guard here.

Well, this is more of that conversation in 2013.

And she talking about Constance Mitchell's message for today's generation.

When I do a comparison of what happened then and what's going on now, we've come a long way.

You know, I can look back and I can see that we have really come a long way within this country, but we still have a long way to go.

But, you know, there are people sitting back waiting for you to give up and taking bets on when you're going to give up and and I say to any one, just don't give up.

If you believe in it, you have a right to fight for it.

That's this Mitchell stance.

Constance Mitchell stands up.

Yeah.

It you know and I think that's kind of what's going on right now I think in this country is that people you know there are people that hope that people are just going to get worn down and they're going to just say to hell with it, you know, and let you know things that are going on that you know, are going against diversity or going against equity and things of that nature, let it slide and that they're going to, you know, acquiesce and that they're going to say, okay, well, you know what?

You can't beat them.

Join, you know, or let's not fight it or whatever.

But I think that, you know, I think that this country is is going to have another awakening.

I think that this country, as a result of some of the things that are going on now, are going to have people begin to say, wait a minute, let's stop.

What the heck is going on?

You know, and I'm just waiting for the day when that happens so I can sit back and say, well, hello, I think it's my mother to say thank the Lord.

You.

Thanks.

Thanks for letting us share her voice.

Thank you for sharing.

It's great to hear her voice.

And what what do you make of what you heard from Constance there?

It's it's it is so true.

It is so true.

when she addressed, you know, the optimism in the in the.

The pride in her earlier days and seeing the anger.

You can see that.

You can see you can see that in people.

And it it hurts.

which, you know, I'm so glad I got the chance to hear those wise words, because sometimes we think we're responding to a situation as appropriately as we think we are, but we may just be responding out of fear and anger and take a breath, take a moment.

Find the exciting point that gives you that moment or that reveal to say yes.

I can see a bit of light and I'm going to keep going towards that.

Not that I'm surrounded by darkness and there's not enough light.

Always go toward the light.

And I love those words and that, I like that.

It made me reframe how I'm looking at 20, 25 through, as we wrap up here, if you want the book, you can go to Hippocampus Books and Rochester if you want to learn more and get in touch with our local history.

Shane, how do they do that?

You can go to Casey Daugaard, our local history.

That's where you can get the book as well.

Learn more about how you can have us come in.

Run this workshop for your teachers and how to use the book.

Help kids be proud of themselves, get involved and caring about their community and the way that they see fit.

And if you want to read more of Leslie, see Youngbloods books.

Where do you want people to find your work?

They can find it anywhere.

Books are sold.

Website Leslie C youngblood.com on social media.

And I just want to add that this book and any book is a chance for kids to tell their story as well, to write, to learn, and to recognize people in their family.

So thank you.

It's beautiful.

Constance Mitchell stands up.

It's out now.

Thank you all for being here, sharing this story.

We appreciate having you here in studio.

Thank you very much.

So thank you for having us from the team at connections.

Thank you for listening.

Thank you for watching.

If you're watching on the news YouTube channel, however you're interacting with us, it's wonderful to have this conversation with you and we're back with you tomorrow on member supported public media.

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