From Sky news I'm Noelle Evans filling in for Evan Dawson.

And this is connections.

Our connection this hour was made earlier this week when local advocates with the Healthy Kids Initiative and Common Ground Health and New York State United Teachers went to Albany to rally for what they call the right to recess.

State Senator James Skoufis is sponsoring a bill that would study recess across the state for grades K through six, and identify disparities and gaps in access to recess time.

Ultimately, the bill aims to ensure that all students have access to meaningful daily play.

And yet, in sorry, we're going to take a second back.

In Rochester, a 2022 report from the Healthy Kids Initiative found that Access to play can be influenced by factors such as race, income, and neighborhood.

And yet, here we go.

The United Nations Human Rights Office of the High Commissioner states that child's play is a fundamental human rights.

Article 31 of the convention of the rights of the child recognizes the right to rest and leisure, to engage in age appropriate play and recreational activities, and to participate freely in cultural life and the arts.

It also affirms that UN member stations, not member stations member states like the U.S., shall respect and promote the rights of the child to participate fully in cultural and artistic life, shall recognize encourage the provision of appropriate equal opportunity for those activities.

So this hour, let's talk about it.

Why is recess important?

And what are lawmakers, advocates and parents doing to make it more universal?

Our guests are going to help us break it down this hour.

With me in studio is Mike Bulger, director of the Whole Child Healthy Advocacy with Healthy Kids Coalition.

The coalition advocates for policies that advance the health and well-being of children from newborns to age eight.

In Rochester and the Finger Lakes region.

Thanks for being here, Mike.

Thank you for having me.

And also joining me is Sharon Peck.

She is a parent advocate and associate professor of literacy at Suny Geneseo.

Sharon is active and play research and advocacy locally and nationally.

She is also a balloon twister performing artist and puppeteer and clown.

Welcome, Sharon.

Thank you.

to start it off, I'm curious what drew each of you to see play and recess?

Is something worth fighting for and investigating.

Sharon, you want to take that?

play is a part of everything we do.

Oh, is that.

Play is a part of.

There you go.

Sorry about that.

We're with.

We're connected to our microphone.

Yes.

It's play is.

I was very lucky to have been brought up with the culture of play and been surrounded by fabulous, educators and influencers that help me understand the power of children having control over their learning, over what they're doing and how much they learn from that.

So I think it started with me experiencing the power of play and then having opportunities to work with teachers on play and see it with my own.

I have to, play influencers in my house.

I have 12 year old twin boys who remind me every day the importance of play.

And when you say play influences, you mean twin boys?

Got it?

Okay.

Yes.

So if I'm having a bad day and or if.

Let's just pretend I got a little tense.

They know it's time to get playful with me and shake me out of it.

So they already understand the power of play for adults.

Just bring that like with you Sharon.

I love it.

I want to, touch on what you had mentioned about, play culture before.

I do though like what in terms of what got you into seeing play and recess is something worth fighting for and investigating.

Well, I'm here, you know, representing the Healthy Kids Coalition, which is an initiative of Common Ground Health.

So we're looking at this through a health lens and the health of kids, their development socially, emotionally, their cognitive development and their physical health.

And, and when it comes to that, when it comes to kids health plays really serious.

It's, the way that they grow.

It's the way that they learn.

It's the way that they develop.

It's their natural way of doing that.

And so recess is a key part of the day for kids, when it comes to their health.

Can we expand a little bit more on some of the elements of recess that make it so valuable?

And one thing that stands out to me is that it is a break in the day.

It's not just like you had school.

Now school's done.

And here you are after, you know, have some free time.

It is a break.

It is.

It's a it's a mental break, number one, from having to focus, having to sit still, having to stay in control.

So it allows us to, reset that cognitive load so that students can come back refreshed and ready to learn and focus again.

It's a physical break because we're asking kids to sit still for very long periods of time and to stay focused, and it's an opportunity for them to have control over self-directed play so that they, when they are out on the playground or in that play space, they are the ones making the choices.

They are the ones, interacting with their peers.

So it's a physical break, a cognitive break.

It's a social break.

You were just talking about the power and the importance of social emotional.

It's the time where they can figure things out, when they can learn how to joke around, and they can communicate when they can also have those opportunities through play and talk and interaction to figure out who they are.

Mike, any further thoughts on that.

Well I mean I think as an adult sometimes it's hard to get through the whole day without a break.

Right.

That kids just naturally have shorter attention spans.

They're still learning how to sit still.

They're still learning how to do all these, tough things that we sort of force ourselves to do as adults.

You know, I think we could all probably get behind the idea that we all need more breaks and more play and more fun, but for kids, it's really crucial.

and it's actually that break is beneficial for them to be able to, you know, perform academically.

There's tons of research out there that shows that kids come back from recess, with their brains reset.

And, they're able to complete tasks and able to absorb information better because, they just need those breaks.

And recess is and is a tremendous break.

It's not just a break from learning.

It's as Sharon said, an opportunity for them to be in control, to choose their activity.

and that's, that's really, fundamentally important for kids.

Yeah.

That self-directed aspect, as you mentioned.

just to make sure, we are all on the same page here.

because when we talk about recess, we're talking about something that I'm going to go with the centers for Disease Control and Prevention with their definition, which defines recess as a regularly scheduled period within the school day for physical activity and play that is monitored by train staff or volunteers.

Recess is a period of time when students are encouraged to be physically active and engaged with their peers and activities of their choice.

So you had mentioned at all grade levels kindergarten through 12th grade, but hold on.

because in many or most schools, recess ends.

for me it was fifth grade, but sometimes sixth grade.

So I'm wondering, I mean, what should the cutoff be?

There shouldn't be one.

As as Mike was just saying, I worked with college freshman this year about the importance of play for college students and exactly how much at recess as us, as adults.

encourage a lot of play during finals week to say when you get to that burnout point, you need to stop and move and do something to distract and reset that brain.

There shouldn't be a cutoff point.

My my children who are in seventh grade, were shocked to find out that you don't get to go outside after lunch and, middle school and high school, so there shouldn't be a cut off.

But right now, I think the focus is pre-K six because of the other developmental pieces that are happening.

Like what?

Like being able to balance, being able to climb a slide, being able to have the coordination, having opportunities to cross the midline so that we can really work on the cognitive, the brain development, motor skills.

Yes.

Yeah.

Fine and gross.

Yes.

And also those relationship skills.

Right.

It's where kids learn how to, you know, persevere and how to, negotiate and how to, you know, play nice.

Right.

And, and they get to explore friends and, and those sort of social boundaries that don't just come naturally.

They have to be learned.

And, recess is a great place for that to happen.

and I think really importantly, you know, it's not happening in every school at the, at the, at the same, you know, to the same standard.

And so it might end in sixth grade at one school, it might end in fifth grade at another school.

there's guidelines and there might be policies, but they're not always followed uniformly.

And, I don't think that there is an expectation among, educators and administrators that if they move from one district to another or one school to another, that they know what the ball game is.

Right?

And so having clear policies, at the state level, I think would get us further towards, you know, institutionalizing play.

that sounds a little silly, right?

Normalizing and normalizing and sharing gets a week.

Okay.

Yeah.

how much time, though?

I mean, realistically, can we give two recess in schools?

Do you think?

Well, that's that's the challenge, right?

And that's why we've seen a reduction in recess across school districts is we've we've put too much into the school day.

Right?

There's a lot of pressure on schools and teachers to prepare for testing, to meet all sorts of standards, to deliver all sorts of, education.

And unfortunately, recess has been squeezed out.

you know, we're down to 20 minutes in the past wellness policy.

I think that 30 minutes would be, a goal, a good step forward.

but I think that, you know, we need to recognize it is as valuable as instructional time.

And right now, it's it's, sometimes optional.

And I think the other policy piece that you alluded to, Mike, is that in some of our suburban schools, they're getting 30, 40, 45 or more minutes a day in New Zealand.

They're going out 2 or 3 times a day, and they're finding that it really helps with achievement.

So I don't think you need a cap personally.

if you're just tuning in, I'm new.

Eleven's filling in for Evan Dawson.

This is connections.

And today we're talking about the right to recess.

with me in studio is Mike Bulger, director of Whole Child Healthy Advocacy with Healthy Kids Coalition.

and, Sharon Peck, parent advocate and associate professor of literacy at Suny Geneseo.

Also a clown.

Yes.

professionally?

Yes.

Okay.

I've done it a lot last since I had my children.

But I'm being a clown teaches you how to play.

and it gives you a free license to play, because as soon as people see you, they expect you to be playful and funny.

And I, when you can be playful, it it changes the whole dynamic.

So we have been offering some wonderful learning series for teachers on playfulness and play, and just how responding with play can help things.

So I think everybody should become a clown, or at least, you know, go to college.

I did think about it at one point specifically for Corporal Mime.

but we'll save that for another time.

if you'd like to join the conversation, you can call 844295 talk.

Talk is 8255 toll free.

The local number is (585) 263-9994.

You can also email us at connections at six cyborg, or comment on the connections live stream on the six AI news YouTube channel.

going back to recess, you had mentioned that it's kind of been squeezed out because there's more time for instruction and, you know, preparing for standardized tests.

Where did that come from?

Like, now I could be corrected if I get the history wrong.

But, a lot of it originates from, like, the No Child Left Behind era.

And this focus on making sure that kids, were meeting certain standards and that all kids were meeting those standards.

And, and, you know, I think it was a well-intentioned effort to, you know, prepare, students to progress through their education and be prepared to get out into the world.

but it, you know, had the effect of really emphasizing testing and really emphasizing checking in on those standards, which put a lot of pressure on schools to prepare their kids to show that they were doing well.

And now you have schools, you know, that might be slipping behind.

Am I going to receivership?

They're under a lot of pressure.

When you say receivership.

Okay.

So the state, is sort of stepping in, schools that are really struggling, whether it's with, you know, test scores, attendance and things like that, they are sort of, on the hot seat.

They've got to show improvement and they've got, make gains, which puts a lot of pressure on the staff.

Right.

if they, are not making gains, the school could be shut down.

Right?

So what happens is even, you know, you might have a school in a low income neighborhood.

That kid might be coming from a neighborhood where, they don't get a lot of outside playtime.

their neighborhood might be unsafe.

We had a parent, coalition member who's going to join us here, and she wasn't able to make it today.

Who would have told you a story?

A very real story of her child telling her that she didn't feel safe going outside to play in her neighborhood?

And that's the case in a few of our schools.

Yeah.

So so then the school is also then a, you know, a bastion for these kids, an escape, from their neighborhood, a safe space to play, to have, you know, adult supervision and a safe spot to just run around and be a kid.

But if that school is then struggling and in receivership and under pressure to raise the test scores, more and more time is devoted to interventions, to, instruction to bring up academics and that can, you know, put further pressure on, on recess.

And, and so it's this sad irony that, schools in high poverty neighborhoods are, under resourced, schools where kids probably need more time to just be kids and feel safe and feel free that those are the schools across the country that, have the lower, you know, numbers when it comes to how many minutes kids get for recess.

Even though that could help so much as you said.

one of the I mean just personal story, but one of the moments that really struck me in terms of like the power of play was seeing, the absence of it for a moment.

when I, I boomeranged, with Rochester so many times and the, time that I came back to take on this role, as a reporter here at six I news, I was staying with a friend and working few heights.

And within a few hours of arriving, straight off of the plane, police showed up.

They were putting up, you know, crime scene tape because a few houses down, 19 year old boy was, man was, I mean, young man was shot and killed.

on the other side of that block, there's a playground.

And even when I, you know, take walks around, I haven't really seen, that playground use too much.

and for the two weeks after, I noticed, like, there weren't any kids outside.

and I, my friend told me, like, this is unusual.

Usually you can just, like, hear kids imaginations, just like loud is, you know, the air around them because they would be out playing.

And so for that time, that, outside time was, no longer safe.

So I hear you there, Mike.

With that, are there other barriers to to, recess that you're running?

We're seeing, some of the other barriers, not only because there's so much pressure on teachers and administrators to make those grades.

Administrators are saying to their teachers, we don't have time for play.

I don't want to see play on your schedule.

limit this.

So kindergarten teachers are covertly calling things inquiry time instead of play because it's so essential and such an important piece.

So administrators are pressuring their teachers not to incorporate play time.

But the other piece that we see a lot and I know I have experienced as a parent, and it's a very common story, is that we see kids sitting on the wall watching the other kids play, and we see kids who are being removed from recess due to some infraction.

It could be their behavior.

It could be their perceived behavior.

it could be, that they haven't completed a task.

So it's frequently being used or some would say weaponized as you can't play because you're not you are not cooperating.

and a problem with that is, if you talk to any adult today, it didn't change our behavior.

And teachers are still fighting.

And there's a lot of behaviors and a lot of issues you were just talking about.

It was social, emotional.

So it's not solving the problem.

Whereas more recess, more movement play and playful interactions within the learning time and unstructured play time and recess and other settings would support those behaviors that teachers are really, working so hard to, to work with.

So much more.

we have, a note from producer Veronica Volk in 2007, a survey by the Center on Education Policy found that five years after No Child Left Behind was enacted, 62% of elementary schools had increased time for English language arts and or math, while 44% had reduced time in other subjects, including recess, physical education, and the arts.

we also have an email from Sharon as a volunteer.

She says that she wants to give a shout out to the Strong Museum of Plays G two program, a fantastic program that she says takes place in some of the City of Rochester schools, as well as Grace and East Rochester schools.

This program pairs adult volunteers with kindergarten children once a week during the school year for child directed play.

it's a fabulous program.

And what it does, is it, the child is not in the classroom.

They're in a different space or with an adult.

So they're making a relationship with them.

And the other thing that Mike really alluded to is the importance of those relationships, which teachers can't make with all this pressure either.

so they they are pulled out into different settings where the focus is is using play for learning.

So it's not pressure, it's playing.

And oh, maybe we'll bring in a little book here, maybe we'll do this here.

But the real focus is on the child.

And that's that's where we were prior to 1997.

And the standards movement and everything ramping up is where there was so much more time for teachers to build relationships, to have more control over curriculum, to be able to bring in these other pieces that now we feel so, stressed out or we feel pressured not to have.

It's interesting, noting that, you know, with that play being child directed and yet also essential for learning that children can also help dictate how they learn.

Yeah, absolutely.

And once we tune into that, I have an after school literacy clinic.

in the, in that same neighborhood, at the community place.

And which neighborhood again?

The community place.

So it's I believe you would call it Market Heights.

Neighborhood Heights.

And, sits on parcels.

And so my teachers who are coming to their student teaching and literacy working with kids after school, it's after school.

The kids have had a long day.

A lot of the kids maybe don't see themselves as capable as they are because of what they've experienced during the school day, so they have learned that being playful, both just in offering choices.

And we have one child who's very motivated by the color red.

If you do a red crayon or red marker, he'll write whatever you want, but not if there's no red.

So following leads like that.

But we also have a gym space so we can make learning up and moving and physical one of their favorite things was finding, different multi-select words that were hidden around the gym, using the gym space, using a ball to roll towards the, vowel team that you're trying to learn.

So there are simple ways that you can build on their ways of learning.

Absolutely.

Interesting.

we have a call, with from Sam from Rochester.

you can talk a bit more going back to, you know, that suburban versus urban, matters when it comes to recess.

Sam, welcome to the program.

Hi.

Thanks.

yeah, I, I really that that comment about kind of the difference in, in recess access in different districts really made me sort of.

I'm curious if your guest can talk more about recess as, like, an equity issue.

Right.

Like, I live in the city, my son goes to school in the city.

I also work with students in the city school district.

Yet, I know that their access to resources a lot depending on the teacher and the school building there and like all those types of things.

And then again, once they get older, there is no reason to.

And I'm curious, like, I want to I want to think about this as an issue of equity, because I think that part of that city is wrapped up into the narrative of, you know, the adults with the question of black and brown kids and sort of the expectations that we culturally have for kids who are living in the suburbs, who are white, perhaps, versus kids who are living in more challenged neighborhoods.

And and I'm, I'm wondering if you guys could talk a little bit more about that and how to combat it, I guess.

Thank you so much for calling and bringing up this really important issue.

we started the day off talking about the UN proclamation for play.

And if we see play as a rights, not a privilege, it changes the whole dynamic.

Because if play is not a reward, it's essential to everything that we do.

And when we use play as a reward for compliance, it turns something that is developmentally necessity, a developmental necessity, into a privilege which reinforces that scarcity that they have after school.

It reinforces the way they're feeling when they're not successful in school.

It reinforces so many of those pieces.

You are, right in that the research says black and brown kids, boys who are very active and black and brown girls who look older than they are, are all being, removed from play because of, as I said before, perceived behaviors.

I'm not denying that those behaviors and that we need to support our kids.

But there are times when kids are, being removed from recess, when it maybe is because of White Gaze or those other pieces, so that we could be much more holistic about supporting children so that everyone can have access to the playtime they need and the supports that they need.

Let every behavior tells a story.

So looking into it that way.

So when you say white gaze, gaze, what do you mean?

I mean that when I, as a privileged, white mom, walks by the playground and I see different behaviors, I might judge them differently because of the color of the kids at play.

Like you were just about to say something.

Yeah.

I was going to say, you know, a few years ago healthy kids worked with the City of Rochester School District, Rochester City School District to update its wellness policy.

And within that wellness policy, that's you know, supposed to set guidelines for all the schools in the district.

we got, you know, that guaranteed time for play.

and we got a what I think a very important provision, which is that play can't be taken away as a form of punishment.

but the challenge then is, is making sure that that policy is followed throughout the district.

Right.

it's a big district.

There's changes in leadership.

there's turnover of staff.

And when there's no uniform standard across the state around play, when it varies from district to district, when the district struggles to, you know, get policies that are made in central office enacted and all the buildings, then we see that uneven implementation even within the school district, even within the city.

so I think that there's a lot of inequity around play and it's, you know, a great disservice to, to the schools, but more importantly to the kids.

it's play is protective, right?

Good play.

Building solid relationships through play that protects kids in times of trauma.

It helps kids build positive relationships with one another.

Protects them from what?

So if, if a child undergoes some sort of trauma, you know, they're suddenly experiencing food insecurity at home, or, they, they become homeless.

play is a way for them to, get some of those feelings out to, you know, kids can't talk about their problems and articulate them as well as, as some adults.

and so play is a way for them to express themselves, things that they might be holding in throughout the rest of the day.

because they don't know how to talk to them, talk about them.

It's also helps them build friendships and build relationships with adults who are around while they're playing and with other kids.

And those can be safe spaces where kids can go to for help or just to share their feelings.

I also add that it helps them develop a sense of risk, because if I know that I shouldn't be jumping off of the top of the slide, or I'm exploring with the different pieces, I find out what my physical abilities are and I know whether it's I can calculate that, and I know whether it's safe for me to do something or not without those opportunities or with shielding them.

And, and, another issue that we have is, oh, that's not safe.

Oh, be careful.

All of the times that we do that, we're not allowing children to develop their own healthy sense of risk and safety.

So there's physical safety.

There's emotional safety.

And you're right, those relationships really matter.

Whether it's with peers, whether it's having an adult that you can go to to turn to, and even talking to a teacher on the playground instead of, you know, it changes the whole dynamic.

Suddenly they become people, rather than just a power dynamic.

Sure.

Yeah.

something you had said earlier, Mike, regarding relationships, as we had kind of touched on, you know, that I'll call it like the Cliff where you have the recess and then you don't.

And when you don't and you're a tween or a teen, it's not that you're still developing relationships, finding your identity.

Those as I recall, were very difficult.

Use, can be very difficult years for development.

And also in a space where you're interacting with your peers and you're you're seated, you're either in class, you're or you're, you know, out in the hallways or you're at lunch, but you're not having recess.

I'm curious, like, you know, with some of what you've looked into, if, you know, for either of you, not to be like in what now are the benefits of play for tweens and teens, but it seems like there's something very specific there that could be addressed.

Sure.

So the Healthy Kids Coalition covers kids birth through eight and, eight years old.

You.

Yeah, yeah.

So, we don't focus a lot on that.

and I was an adolescent once, and I don't think I perfected it.

so I'm not a complete expert on, the benefits, but I can speak to the fact that the research, shows that, adolescents continue to benefit from, from recess.

you know, that academic performance, that cognitive break is still important at that age.

and I think, you know, obviously socially, emotionally, there's a lot going on in those years.

so that unstructured time, you know, it's a benefit throughout the lifespan.

and there's an expectation and there's, you know, policies that, that, that goes away when kids reach that age.

But that doesn't, that doesn't vibe with, with the research or, you know, with the with the way that we're built biologically.

Right.

So, I think it's, again, doing a disservice to the kids.

Absolutely.

And I think it ties into another one of the governor's initiatives with her commitment to recess is the screen time issue.

So one of the ways that adolescents are choosing to play more today is sedentary at their computers.

They're still getting socialization through online.

They're still very loud.

I can tell you there's yelling and screaming into the, computers as their as they're interacting and playing.

But it's a very different kind of play.

And we need to have spaces for all kinds of play because they need that physical activity.

They need that emotional connection and outcomes.

They need that opportunity to be silly.

I I've been having a ball just listening to my students as they have friends over.

They're working on a documentary.

I haven't seen a camera yet, but they are.

But they're being kids in a way that they get to be as teens and tweens, and it's so important that we have spaces for that.

I think we're so lucky that the strong museum has play for all ages, right?

It has a toddler area, it has interactive areas, it has a pinball arcade.

It respects the need for play and all those levels.

We have our centers that are wonderful, where improving the quality of sports and access for city school district kids to be participating.

But those those pieces are so, so important.

we are going to take a quick break.

It's the only break of the hour.

And when we come back, we're going to explore more about the right to recess.

if you'd like to join the conversation, you can call 84429528255.

Toll free.

The local number is (585) 263-9994.

You can also email us at connections at six I forg or comment on the connections live stream on the Sky news YouTube channel.

See you in just a second.

I'm Megan Mac Monday on the next connections, we bring you special broadcasts on Memorial Day and our first Our Women Warriors from the BBC World Service.

It explores the challenges and motivations women in the military face.

Then, in our second hour, a call to mind special titled Silent Battles Mental Health in Military Service, you'll hear about how military duty can impact mental health and the resources designed to support service members.

That's Monday.

This is Evan Dawson with WXXI news.

Join me for a voice at the voter debate with the three candidates vying for Rochester mayor in the June Democratic primary Malik Evans, Mary Lucien and Shashi Sinha will debate live on Wednesday, May 28th, and ITV FM 105.9 and on Sky, Newstalk and the Sky news YouTube channel.

Join us Wednesday, May 28th at 8 p.m..

This is connections.

I'm Noelle Evans, filling in for Evan Dawson.

And this hour we're talking about the right to recess.

With me in studio is Mike Bolger.

He's the director of Whole Child Health Advocacy with Healthy Kids Coalition.

And also Sharon Peck is with us.

She's a parent advocate and associate professor of literacy at Suny Geneseo.

We are exploring more about, you know, policy.

And also, you know, this idea of play not as a luxury, but as a need.

and so and we also explored a bit so far about, you know, some of the disparities depending on where you live, what you look like, you know, and what resources you have access to.

and so we've talked a bit about the barriers.

One of the things I would like to get to is the pandemic's effect on play and recess.

A 2021 article that was published in the international peer reviewed journal children, and that journal focuses on children's health.

they looked at play behaviors in children during the Covid 19 pandemic.

I tend to, appreciate the amount of, anesthesia or whatnot, like, I can't there's a part of me that has blocked out 20, 22, to be honest.

but we're going to, look a little bit more at this element of, you know, how that has shaped, children's relationship to play.

And also, that access to recess, especially during that time.

So this study from 2021, looked at different literature and showed a decrease in play behaviors and outdoor activities due to confinement measures across countries to mitigate the spread of the coronavirus.

Fair enough.

the article goes on that in most countries, restrictive measures prohibited or at least discouraged parents from using playgrounds or outdoor sports, and thus outdoor activities were limited.

those findings were at odds with the World Health Organization's guidelines that children and teens should exercise.

And by exercise, we're talking about moderate to high intensity for at least an hour a day.

And overall outdoor play does connect children with nature and makes them more active and curious, while also boosting their immune system and regulating their sleep routines with recess.

As I recall, unless it was a rainy day or the weather was rough, we were outside and it sounds like from here that that is a key element to to that break.

Mike, do you want to.

Yeah, sure.

Yeah.

Recess outside.

Let's go, let's go, let's have fun.

Everything's better when you get outside.

there's fresh air you're exposed to, you know, nature.

You're able to find worms.

So that was a big, big activity for me.

yeah.

That sort of sensory stuff, that exploration, that that's incredibly beneficial.

I think the tragedy is, as the schedule gets more and more crowded in schools, teachers have to choose.

Do we do some sort of physical activity inside or do we get the kids lined up, get their coats on, walk outside to the playground, then we have less time for them to play before they have to get back in line, walk back to class, take off their stuff, and be ready for the next period of class.

as you're saying, I'm thinking to the right, if we have 20 minutes of time for recess and a school day, is that including the.

All right, line up, everybody.

You know, make sure that you're not pushing or shoving.

Now we're outside like, oh, you've got your jackets.

All right, time's up.

Get in line.

Like to me I'm like, does that mean five minutes sometimes.

Sometimes kids are only playing for a few minutes of their recess period.

Yeah.

and it's, you know, it's it's unfair.

It's it's it's unfair.

And it's, it's it's a poor choice.

Right?

We wouldn't do that with math.

We wouldn't do that with science.

We wouldn't take these things away as punishment.

We wouldn't say, oh, we only had four minutes for math because we, you know, we got to go do something more important right now.

But we're doing that with play.

And, it's, it's, failing to recognize the importance and the vital ness of play for kids.

and we, you know, we want to change that.

That's why Sharon and I are here representing the Healthy Kids Coalition.

There's passionate about it, too.

Yeah, well, there's this there's, you know, we're not at a state of perfection as a society.

I don't know if that's like a news break.

I don't know if, that came across the wire, but we have work to do, right?

we're continually evolving our understanding of how best to, you know, support kids.

And sometimes we forget about some of the good lessons that we had learned in the past.

And and now is the time to, you know, go back to play and recognize it for what it is.

And I think that coming up, what is it?

What do you play is serious business.

Play is crucial to health.

Play is important for kids development.

Play is their natural state of being.

And so by understanding that and recognizing it as just as important as them, learning math as them learn, learning science as them getting good nutrition, we can we can give it its place in, in the day and in our approach to giving the math and giving them food and, helping them understand, you know, the right way to talk and treat, other human beings.

play is learning.

And that's part of the problem, why we think of it as something just for little kids or not as important.

We really, as a society, haven't valued it the way some other countries have.

And, it's absolutely essential.

It's how we learn best.

It's how every at every age level.

can I go back to what you were starting to say about the pandemic?

Well, two things.

One is I feel very privileged as a parent advocate to be working with healthy kids because everything that Healthy kids, does involves parent resident leaders.

So the policies that they fight for and the community work that they develop and the services that they put out, it's all about bringing in family, community, understanding what the needs are in our community and what those family members want.

So everything the reason I'm here is because I'm a parent.

Everything that they do involves parent leaders to make sure that they're not just us creating policy.

Well, you know it with with the Ivy tower idea.

but go ahead.

Oh, I'm just thinking, you know, if somebody is listening in and they're thinking, well, but wait, how could we be talking about recess when you've got so many students not hitting basic academic milestones?

And I know we've touched on this, that it sounds like, without that break, how or how are you possibly going to be able to take in more information and like, you know, connect those dots and things like that.

So, I'm just yeah, just curious to, to that point of, is there a way to integrate play into the classroom, too?

Absolutely is.

And I'm going to go back real quick and say, absolutely what Mike was talking about, about being outside in all weather.

And the importance of being outside is also screens off, no LED lights.

It's that whole sensory experience of experiencing nature.

So there are so many really easy, inexpensive, simple ways to start to bring play in and to integrate it into the whole school day or the classroom day, or just mathematics or just literacy, because it's really easy to do.

And it starts with providing teachers with, the license to have a playful attitude and to recognize when you were talking about the power of just choice or the power of choosing what materials I use.

There are very simple, small pieces.

I call them micro doses of play that you can begin to interact with because they're so powerful.

So allowing a child to roll a die to see which problem we're going to do next, you've just given them power.

You've given them control.

You are.

You've tie them in, you've given them some more agency over the situation.

There are small pieces that we can do.

And then there are much, much bigger with embodying and acting it out role playing so that we can experience these different ideas.

and the Healthy Kids Coalition, we advocate for policy changes and system changes, but we recognize that, you know, you can make a policy.

But if, educator doesn't know how to implement it or want some help there that they need some sometimes some trainings or some, you know, co learning with an exchange of ideas with other teachers.

So we have supported some professional development series for RCS educators around playful learning.

we're planning for August our, next Playful Learning Summit, which is a little conference, that's going to be at the Memorial Art Gallery and, it's an incredible opportunity.

hundreds of educators and administrators and community members and parents, get together and focus on how can we integrate play into our kids learning experiences.

that is August 20th.

and it's open to our CSD teachers.

But parents, community members and other teachers from other districts as well.

And it's a wonderful opportunity for us to provide support and play at every different developmental level.

Play outdoor, play, recess, all of the important pieces.

something you had mentioned about, you know, outside play in all weather.

We can get some pretty harsh winters in Rochester, and that requires like having the right outdoor gear, and that requires having the resources because that costs money.

and so there's it sounds like there's an equity element to addressing that, too.

when it comes to that particular element as well, there is there is.

And, you know, many schools in our region are practicing a community schools model.

And what that is, is it's there's the school, but there's all these different organizations pushing in and connected to the school to support them in different ways.

So healthy kids can be there to help, you know, teachers learn about playful learning or healthy celebrations and good nutrition in classrooms and physical activity and things like that.

and there might be another organization like The Strong working directly with kids, and others as well, providing some of those basic needs, you know, having clothing, cupboards or pantries within the school so that if a kid comes to school without the proper outdoor gear that they can, you know, be connected to, to that kind of support.

So it's it's it's a very real thing.

We have a lot of people who have a lot of needs right in our community, not just access to play.

And it's about thinking about the whole kid.

What can we do to support them?

And, and recognizing that no one organization, no one school and no one teacher and no one family has to do this alone, no one can really do it alone.

We have to think about all of the needs of the child and work together to address those.

And I would say we're very lucky here in Rochester to have so many, organizations working together to provide those.

I know a lot of teachers who they'll say, okay, as you're cleaning out your closets, we're looking for, you know, three T40 clothing, and they're collecting things and they're keeping clothes.

They're they're keeping winter coats, or they're taking them home and washing them themselves.

So there there are ways to, to get that gear.

but it's, it's just so important for them to have that experience of making, of experiencing snow for the first time or recognizing for themselves instead of just running to the bus stop or other places, just what, what we can do outside.

I remember I think one of my first recesses where there was snow and everybody had to get their like snow overalls on and off we went.

and having that opportunity like as you mentioned about like sensory elements of play.

that aspect of it.

Yeah.

we do have a caller, Bob from Brighton, calling about Museum of Play funding.

Bob, welcome to the program.

Thank you.

And thank you, your guests, for being so.

Pardon the expression playful.

and thanks for zigzagging connections for doing this.

I just applaud Z and the two of you who are so into play, and the museum, a national museum.

And the big thing I want to say, is anyone listening, get in touch with whoever you can locally to educate and secondly, to deal with and confront the federal defunding.

it's exciting and strong and it's outrageous what's going on.

And we need both connections, all of X sexy and all you're doing and play, to get the support it needs.

So thank you and everyone who's listening.

Don't be quiet.

Stand up advocate.

Thank you.

Bob I really appreciate you calling it.

It's a really good point.

Our partners, the I do wonderful work with, connecting play with public media and public broadcast.

And you're talking about downstairs.

Yeah.

Well, actually upstairs, our education department, separate from our newsroom.

But yes, I fabulous people, they do wonderful work.

I do absolutely.

Yeah.

They're out there at every different community event and just trying to to support families and bringing play into the home and connecting it to content and helping them see what's available.

we've got a couple more minutes here to continue to explore.

my favorite topic honestly.

and I do want to bring up, something from the Brookings Institute, which is a nonpartisan nonprofit in DC that conducts research on policy.

and according to the institute, recess.

it became a staple in the U.S around like the 20th century.

However, it was sounds like it was dated back, to the 17th century.

and an English school teacher, John Brinsley, that's been credited often for creating that break period for students that we know today.

but according to the institute's, that's, recess is shaped by the Progressive ERA child studies movements.

We're talking about the, you know, 20 early 20th century, but also modeled after factory work breaks and yet also essential for teaching social skills, balancing the school day things that we have already elaborated on.

and in this article, they, they say, you know, inequities surrounding recess also persist into adulthood.

Recess is disproportionately withheld from poor urban and minority children due to academic interventions, punishment for incomplete schoolwork, or a lack of safe play spaces.

This undervaluing of breaks from classrooms to factory floors reveals a shared cultural problem prioritizing output over well-being.

This is an article from the Brookings Institute.

The authors were, Karen Ali and Cathy Hirsch Pasek.

she's a fantastic play advocate.

Great.

Okay, wonderful.

so it sounds like there's an argument to be had that recess and our relationship to play and playful breaks does relate to larger cultural and societal values.

If we want everyone to make good choices, to be good citizens, to recognize the control and the agency they have over their own situations, we can't constantly take away all of the choices.

So being outside in recess, having that break that supports so many different aspects of development, it gives them opportunities for autonomy, for self-regulation, for understanding how they respond and interact in different situations.

So if we are controlling everything they're doing during the school day, we're withholding recess and we're seeing that as it's it's the age old problem.

As they get older, the restrictions get tighter and tighter and tighter.

And then we are upset when teenagers want to be loud or have fun because they've been so heavily restricted.

So it absolutely ties into, growth, adolescence.

Just the important for that self-regulation and autonomy.

And I think it's a really interesting way to think about it, looking at it as like our whole culture.

Right.

Even as you get older and you're working on a factory floor, as you're mentioning.

Right.

What is the importance of breaks for all of us?

What is the importance of play for all of us?

Do we have to act like adults all the time or can we let loose and regain some of that childhood fun?

Right.

I think a lot of people probably listening right now, or maybe commuting to or from a work meeting, or you know, running some errands if we all just, like, took a moment to take a deep breath, relax, allow ourselves to recognize something silly, maybe do something a little silly safe if you're driving, but silly.

And I think we would all feel a little refreshed and reset.

And then maybe we could all, you know, look at what our schools are doing and make and make sure that our kids are getting that same sort of break throughout the day, a bigger break because they're kids.

So looking at what's your school wellness policy?

Is it being followed at your kid's school?

Who do I talk to?

If it's not, do I need to go to the administrator?

Do I need to go to the school board?

Do I need to talk to my state representatives?

Do I need to talk to federal representatives?

We need to make sure that we have the policies in place, and that the schools have the resource and the breathing space to implement policies that give kids a break and let them play.

at the beginning of the hour, Sharon, you had talked about you were as you were growing up, you're steeped in, the culture of play.

can you explain a bit more what you meant by that, or what that is?

The glasses come off.

Okay?

Okay.

These are fabulous questions.

I really appreciate the opportunity to think through these things.

And I was I was thinking about as Mike was talking.

And there's a wonderful book that I have really been enjoying called The Fun Habit by Michael Rutger.

And he encourages adults to take the time to recognize that we're always racing for the next level, the video game or the next high.

And instead of doing those little pieces that taking the time to laugh, the taking the time to be a little more playful so that if we can create a list of the things that do bring us that joy and bring us back to that reset place, and then we have maybe a picture up at the office that reminds us of that.

We can have all these little reset cues to support us as adults, and then it supports us.

Let's face it, Mike and I are parents.

it's not always easy, but it helps us reset to.

And remember that we're dealing with people.

Children are little people, and they're fantastic and amazing.

And if we respond without remembering that, we're not doing any of us justice, sounds like play is very important for being able to show up for each other.

Yes.

Yeah.

Yes, we are coming to the end of the hour, and I want to make sure that we have enough time to, you know, share some of these, you know, final thoughts that you all might have, as we've explored so much about the right to recess, the power of play, seeing play as a human right, not just something for leisure or a privilege.

but yeah.

Any final thoughts as we wrap up here?

I just invite everybody to go to Healthy Kids Healthy with an eye, dawg, and learn more about what we're doing and join us in this movement.

There's a lot of resources there.

And just remember that play is learning.

It is not a four letter word said by a true clown.

this is WXXI news.

I'm Noelle Evans.

I'm sitting in for Evan Dawson.

This is connections.

Thank you so much for joining us on this Friday.

We will see you back here next week.

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