>> From WXXI News.

This is Connections.

I'm Evan Dawson.

Our connection this hour was made in sugar cane fields at a piragua stand at a casita at a 16th century Spanish built stone fort known as El Morro, and on electric poles.

Not your usual set for a Super Bowl halftime performance.

But when global superstar Bad Bunny was selected as the artist for the event, organizers weren't expecting or hoping for your average performance.

The buzz leading up to the show has continued well after it, with applause and cheers from fans and newcomers alike to some criticism.

As expected from some on the political right who may have watched or didn't watch or flipped to the turning Point alternative Super Bowl featuring kid Rock and others.

Much of the celebratory remarks have come from Puerto Ricans, who said that the performance have really made them feel seen, and I receive messages from friends that night who told me that they were in tears watching the show and talking about every element that, you know, if you're not Puerto Rican, maybe you didn't understand it or see it the same way.

So we're going to explore the cultural significance of Bad Bunny's performance.

We'll address some of the criticism this hour, and we're going to, I hope, have a little bit of fun with our guests.

One of the people who texted me that night was Norma Holland, a former journalist, and my former colleague and someone with Puerto Rican roots.

Yourself.

Nice to see you in studio.

>> Gracias.

>> Are you okay?

Are you ready?

>> I am ready.

>> I was going to say to see.

All right.

>> Thank you.

Evan.

>> We're only speaking in Spanish to satisfy.

I said, let's do the whole thing in Spanish just to tweak it.

We're not going to tweak anybody.

We're going to have a good conversation.

No matter where you are in this whole thing.

Julio Sáenz is a chief content officer for WXXI Public Media and a veteran in local media.

Local radio, Poder, et cetera.

Did you ever meet Bad Bunny, by the way?

>> No, we were just talking a little bit about this.

I could have met him, but I was like, nah.

>> Don't admit this.

>> I did.

I it's such a missed opportunity to talk about missed opportunity.

>> This was back when Julio.

>> This was maybe 2019.

No 16 that long ago.

This was so maybe a year a year after we launched Poder 97.1.

And he was bad Bunny was coming to town.

And Anabel, who's joining us here today as well, brought, brought up the possibility of bringing him in for an interview to the station.

And, and I was like, who?

And somebody told me.

>> Well, in 2019 it wasn't like now, right?

>> Yeah.

And but it's still he was that new.

I mean, because my job there was also to help program the music.

So I was staying on top of the latest things.

and still I was.

And then somebody told me, well, you know, he uses some, some savory language there.

I don't know if you want him on there.

You got to be careful.

So at first I said, no, you can't bring him on the, on the radio station.

And then later on, I was convinced Anabel and convinced me and and I was like, all right, well, you have fun.

So I missed the opportunity.

We do have a photo.

You have a we have a photo of you with him in the studio and everything.

And I was just yeah, at home having breakfast.

>> The one that got away.

>> Right?

The one that got away.

>> Anabel, did you know that he had the it factor then?

>> No.

>> No.

>> But he was very sure that he had it.

So he knew that he was very confident.

I even asked one of the clips of that 2016 interview that I did went viral in 2023.

The interview that I did with him when I asked him, yeah, when I asked him, how do you see yourself in five years?

What stages I'm going to see you in five years.

And he was like in the biggest stages.

I'm very sure.

I'm very confident about me.

And I know I'm going to make it anywhere.

So he knew, he knew.

>> And that night at the Super Bowl, he actually said that.

He said, I always believed in myself.

>> It was confirmed once again.

>> That's right.

>> When he.

>> Said, always believe in yourself.

He says, believe.

Believe in yourself.

Believe me.

He said yes.

>> So it was amazing.

>> Yeah.

So let me just kind of go around the table and Norma Holland, I'll start with you when you see some of the imagery that you saw at that halftime show, there were certain I know there were certain images that hit you because of your family and and the history.

Tell me.

>> About that.

Well, the first thing that hit me was the first the opening scene.

you see Bad Bunny, he's he turns around, he's talking about, you know, his song.

And so he's facing the sugarcane field and you see workers in the background wearing the traditional you know, babas, the the hats, the straw, straw hats.

And they have machetes in their hands, and they're cutting the canna, the cane, the sugarcane.

And that was absolutely a nod to Puerto Rico's history as a sugar producer.

Sugarcane, sugar producing island.

And it brought me it it struck me right in the heart.

And I almost wanted to cry because my grandfather, my mother's father, was a sugarcane worker, you know, Ro Khanna my mom used to always say he always had a machete, and he would cut the sugarcane and bring it home.

Sometimes for the kids to have as a treat.

And so that history of my father, my grandfather just hit me right away.

And over my bed there is I bought a print when I was in Puerto Rico many years ago, and it's of sugarcane workers.

so that was just beautiful that he paid homage to that, right?

Right off the bat.

>> Julio, was there an image that that stood out to you?

>> There was so many, and it was such a party.

And then later on, you see all these layers to it.

And for me, it was the the little boy sleeping on the three chairs through the party is that's just how parties are.

I mean, it's common to have house parties and family parties and everyone's invited.

And you saw there was a gentleman there who was dancing, who was 88 years old.

You see the kids sleeping through the music.

and that's just because the parties aren't this thing that some teenagers go off and do.

The parties are something the whole family is involved and it's cross-generational.

>> Annabelle.

>> Well, for me was the ending when he mentioned all the countries that belonged to the American continent.

It's just like a lesson for everybody to know that America is not only United States, but it's all of us, including United States.

So for me, that was the best part of it.

>> There were there were so many different places.

I want to take this conversation this hour.

And listeners, if you want to weigh in on what you saw, if you have questions you certainly can do that.

I told Norma she's got translate the whole halftime show if you didn't know what he was saying.

I keep telling people, go, how am I supposed to enjoy it if I don't know what he's saying?

To me, it just looked joyful.

Yeah, it looked joyful.

and authentic.

So many think about all the Super Bowl shows you've seen where, you know, you got Prince or.

And, like, the music's good, but you have the people in the crowd are like, paid and they're like, it's the weirdest dancing.

It's like they're over the top.

And I'm like, like, this looks fake.

It does not feel right.

This looked authentic from the jump.

I cannot believe how well choreographed this was.

And everybody involved had their own different role that they were playing as Bush's.

>> I told.

>> You the shrubbery.

>> Had role.

I want it to.

>> Be one of.

>> Those the grass people.

It was.

>> It really, really was remarkable.

It was unlike anything I've ever seen.

But if you no matter how you felt, listeners, you want to jump in.

It's 844295 talk.

It's 8442958255263 WXXI.

If you're in Rochester 2639994, email the program Connections at wxxi.org.

And if you're watching on the WXXI News YouTube channel, please like and subscribe.

Subscribe there and you can join the chat there and we'll share some of your feedback as we go throughout this hour.

Now, some of the things that I want to ask the panel a little bit about is not only was it joyful to me, but, you know, I can think of many conversations that Norm and I had back in the day when we used to work next to each other, and how you had to sometimes bite your lip about certain emails.

We all get emails from people who like you or don't like you.

That's part of the job when it's public facing.

And that's okay.

but some can be really cutting, you know, and that's, that's part of it too.

So the criticisms in advance were one thing.

And then you see the show, the show is joyful.

The show was positive.

He talked about he said, you know, God bless America.

That's the only thing he said in English.

And he also features, you know, very traditional weddings.

You know, I mean, it was like the most pro wedding thing I think I've seen in a country where there's this big cultural debate about, are we having enough kids or people getting married?

Why are people not getting married?

you know, what's going on with these institutions of relationships like that to me, almost had a, like, a culturally conservative aspect to it.

>> I mean.

>> I don't know, I don't want to speak for my, my, my friends here in the studio, but, you know, Latin American culture is can be very conservative.

Yeah.

I think we can all remember our upbringing.

And it was very, you know, mother, father, children you know, and so, so, yes, there is that that's I think we all grew up with, with, with some of that in our family.

but that, by the way, that, that family or that couple was getting married in real.

>> That was a real wedding.

A couple.

>> They asked Bad Bunny to be at their wedding and he goes, actually, I got something for you.

How about you come to the show and do it.

>> Live.

you know?

Yeah.

>> So yeah.

>> And even the couple, I mean, the she was Latina and and he was non-Latino.

so yeah, I was reading about that.

Just even the symbolism of that, you know, just and him inviting that couple there to be married, live on air.

And then it just cuts to this party, which I keep mentioning.

The party.

>>, because honestly.

>> It was a huge party.

The whole.

>> Thing, a celebration.

>> It was so much fun.

And I'm sure I mean, Anabel, we were talking earlier about the dancing.

We were just jumping up and down dancing while we were watching it.

>> It's just the reactions.

Any reactions you see online in social media is what I experienced and what I did.

So I jump, I stand up, I dance, I cry, I scream.

When I saw Lady Gaga.

>> Yeah.

>> Performing.

Not expecting that.

>> Someone said she had on a dress that looked like a Dominican cake, which is cake, Poder right of dessert, but it's so funny.

She looked like a cake.

>> Yes, yes.

And yeah, so it was very impressive.

And and just see every little detail and how much attention she paid to put that together because it represented everything.

And not only that, it's like everything was real, right?

We had this dance.

>> The Piragua stands.

>> Yeah, right.

>> All the little businesses that were represented there, I, you know, I intentionally putting all these folks and the dignity of their work on stage.

You know, the guy making tacos, the guy making snow cones, the people in the there's a barbershop, the lady in the bar who was a famous person in the community in New York City.

All those places, the guy selling jewelry, those those were all people.

Back to the sugar cane workers.

>> And and it was it was really represented the, the diaspora of of you've got, you know, people who are in the countryside of, of Latin America, but also the cities and, you know, the street life and, you know, paid homage to that.

And but he made it about everybody else, you know and that's what I thought was so beautiful, is that he could have made it all about him.

Right.

But instead it was about showcasing the, the, the diversity of Latin American culture.

>> And celebrating all these people that have come to this country to work.

Yes.

And, you know, we are immigrating here, but we also like we're coming to work.

We're coming to make a life, right?

And take advantage, of course, of the opportunities that United States is bringing to everybody.

So it was very nice.

It was very nice to see it was Juan Carlos.

It was the person that it was at the Piragua is a famous Cuban basketball player who belongs to the Basketball League of Puerto Rico.

Wow.

So it seemed personalities like that.

It's amazing.

>> Pedro Pascal I mean, you know, it was like an Easter egg hunt, right?

Like.

>> Oh, yeah.

Yes, yes.

Pick something.

>> So I was going to get Whitney's phone call, but Whitney hung up.

But let me.

I'll read the comment that Whitney sent in here, and it's going to dovetail with a clip of sound here.

Whitney called in to say that she translated one of the songs and found it full of vulgarity, and that bothered her.

>> Okay.

>> I want to listen to we have a sound clip from Congressman Mark Alford who says he also doesn't speak Spanish, but he's starting an investigation, and all they've got to do is track down enough people who can translate Spanish.

What is going on in the Republican Party there?

Nobody speaking Spanish.

Listen to Alford talking about Bad Bunny.

>> Over to the Bad Bunny.

Bad performance of the Super Bowl.

Halftime.

we are still investigating this.

There's a lot of information that has come out about the the lyrics.

I saw the halftime show and switching back and forth with the TP, USA halftime show.

They the lyrics from what we have seen from Bad Bunny are very disturbing.

And if it holds true that the, you know, I don't speak fluent Spanish.

Okay, I know how to ask where the bathroom is, but these lyrics, if it is true what was said on national television, we have a lot of questions.

for the entities that broadcast this.

And we'll be talking with Brendan Carr from the SEC about this.

>> But.

>> All right, so a couple of things before I kick it to our guests there.

And, you know, Whitney called in with sort of the same concerns.

Number one, I'm going to read a set of lyrics to you.

>> Okay.

>> Here are the lyrics.

I like them underage.

See, some say that statutory.

I say that's mandatory.

>> That's kid.

>> Rock, that's a kid Rock.

>> That's not Bad Bunny.

>> That's a kid.

>> Rock song.

Yes.

>> That's the guy who was on the Tpusa stage.

>> That's family values there, huh?

>> Now, if if your concern is.

Well, I've seen because what Congressman Alford who I again, I have to say this, I'm not trying to be demeaning here, but like, you're on national television days later and you're still investigating the lyrics that were said, like, do you not have one Spanish speaking friend who could just sit down and tell you what he's saying, or singing, like, what is going on here, man?

But set that aside.

I think what he's saying is he's heard some of Bad Bunny lyrics in other songs before the Super.

>> Bowl.

>> And some he didn't like, and therefore he wants to find out if those were sung, which he should have known by then.

>> number one, you're going to have the same concern about kid Rock, I assume, but he's not expressing the same concern about kid Rock, for consistency's sake.

I would think that you would, but he didn't.

The second thing is, I. I'll just ask our guest to describe.

What did you hear from from Bad Bunny?

And what would you say to Whitney who says, you know, I looked up his lyrics.

I didn't like them or I, you know, I was trying to translate what he was doing.

So, Annabelle, what do you want to say to Whitney?

>> And.

>> Well, most of the bad words that he says in his songs were muted.

He didn't say it.

>> He didn't say it.

>> So in the concert.

But the lyrics, if you look for the lyrics, there are going to be some strong words in there.

Like we were talking about it.

Any other artists here right now has strong words and bad words in their songs.

>> Or suggestive lyrics.

>> Yes, exactly.

So.

But they were muted in the concert, in the halftime show, so I don't know.

>> Yeah.

Let's talk about Prince, who's considered to have the greatest performance of all time.

I they started a whole movement to put stickers on albums and records because of some of his lyrics, you know?

So he had lots of lyrics at different points in his career.

It doesn't mean that that's what he performed when he was in front of the folks at the stadium, which is same thing with Bad Bunny.

>> Yeah.

I mean, and look at I'm going to I'm going to underline and underscore what you said, Julio.

There's a lot of artists who have suggestive lyrics.

I mean, you know, listen to Taylor Swift's latest album.

Yeah, I don't know about that.

I'm not letting my kids listen to that album from start to finish without, you know, giving them you know, or finding more appropriate versions of it.

I mean, yeah, I get it, Whitney.

I totally understand.

and here's the best part of this whole thing.

If you don't think his music is appropriate for your children, you don't have to let them listen to it.

You can.

You can look for the kid bop version.

You can find another way to make it so that that his music is, you know, us being here today is not us saying he's the greatest Latino artist of all time.

You know what I'm saying?

My mother doesn't like Bad Bunny from Puerto Rico.

She doesn't like it.

Every time I play songs, she goes like that.

So you know, that's a to me, it's.

It's just it's, you know I, I want to say more about this, Evan, but I think that the the rage might be misplaced on the whole.

And I could suggest other things that people could read right now that are out in the open that that might they might be more rageful about or or have parents might be more concerned about.

>> Well, we have bigger problems right now.

I believe in, in the political environment, the environment that we are right now at this moment, to be worried about what didn't happen, what didn't happen.

>> The collective body of an artist's work you could find any artist and do the same thing.

>> End of story.

Well.

>> And that's where I just want consistency.

So if Whitney is concerned about the lyrics, you got, by the way, the lyrics not that were sung at the Super Bowl.

>> Which in.

>> General I get.

>> Yeah.

>> But Norma, before the Super Bowl was even over, somebody had posted and this went super viral like, oh, I translated Bad Bunny's lyrics and look at all this vulgar stuff.

>> Yeah, but he was not.

>> He didn't say that.

>> It's not.

>> Correct.

>> But regardless, you can find some vulgar stuff in Bad Bunny lyrics.

You can find some very vulgar stuff in kid Rock lyrics.

You can find some vulgar stuff in a lot, in some Prince lyrics.

You can, you can.

It's out there and in Taylor Swift I said last week I'm the old man yelling at clouds who didn't like what Chappell Roan wore to the Grammys.

I was like, that was a little much.

>> For me.

>> Everybody's got different lines.

>> I just.

>> I just asked you to be consistent and not immediately jump in with the outrage.

That's all I'm saying, because I didn't see vulgarity.

I saw joy, and and I saw light poles.

I saw electricity grids.

>> Thank you for bringing.

>> That up.

You know, I saw I.

>> Saw some stuff.

>> That he.

>> Was.

>> Calling attention to.

I didn't grow.

>> Up in Puerto.

>> Rico 100%.

Those were.

That's about the power outages and the aging infrastructure and Luma and all of the crumbling infrastructure of the island.

That was a nod to the real problems of the inhabitants and the citizens of that island, which, by the way, they are American citizens.

And that's all.

You know, I just want to point that out to people.

Jones act.

So look, you know, that to me was another thing.

It wasn't just a party.

It was also a call to action.

and the positive message.

And if all we're going to do is sit there and focus on the lyrics in some of his songs or the songs that he sung that night that were edited for, for the, for the audience and muted.

Then we're missing the whole point.

>> But of course.

>> We've done that before.

>> Yeah.

And I gotta say that whole thing about the electric pole, it doesn't just apply to Puerto Rico.

It applied to many countries in the Caribbean, my country.

I'm from Dominican Republic, so we still having issues with the electricity in my country so we can the lights go off for hours and we don't know why, but we still have to pay it.

So there is an issue everywhere in Latin America.

>> Julio, what did you think when you saw the light poles?

>> That's what I thought.

I also thought of Hurricane Maria and how long it took to get the power on, which was almost a year.

And and that's a fair criticism of of the infrastructure on the island and the government and, and the support for people's daily lives.

because it is that difficult.

And it was such a surprise.

There was just so many surprises.

I.

>> Had to go back and look at it.

>> Me too.

I was like, where did that come from?

And I read a thing of a few posts.

not long after the show from some folks that work in production and cinematography and just how amazing the entire shot was right from the beginning, how it just followed him.

It wasn't just a camera pointed at a stage.

It was this incredible, the work to get that camera through all those angles, through this whole maze of things, is.

>> Logistics.

It's just probably was very crazy and hectic on that day.

>> Yeah, yeah.

>> To the point that Julio was making is what Keith wants to jump in from.

Victor.

Hey, Keith.

Go ahead.

Hey there Keith, do we have Keith?

We got him now.

Keith, are you there?

I am not hearing.

Keith.

I'm going to put Keith back on hold.

We're going to see if we can grab him.

He wants to talk about cinematography.

It was amazing.

And they do these time lapses.

So you can see the creation of the set.

You know like the second they go to halftime the the grass people as.

>> You're saying, all the different.

>> Set components are flying out.

>> There had to be at least 510.

>> By the way.

>> To be a grass person.

Yeah.

yeah.

>> Yeah.

You and I would have, we wouldn't have made it.

>> Evan.

absolutely would have made the cut.

>> Absolutely.

Remarkable stuff.

the other thing that I think has been on my mind is who this was for, and then the question of whether it was supposed to be for you.

We have this.

I've.

I've read a lot of criticism from people who said, well, I watch Tpusa because that was for everybody.

And I want to see a Super Bowl show.

That's for everybody.

First of all, it's the Super.

>> Bowl that's very subjective.

I mean, like, who are you.

>> To tell what's for me?

Who are you to tell me what's for me?

I'll decide that.

>> My first reaction is.

>> Like, it may not be for you, but like, I'm not saying Bad Bunny wasn't for you, but I'm saying that, like, not everything is for you.

Not everything goes around.

You're not the center of the.

I'm not the center of the universe.

And entertaining does not go around my preferences.

365 days a year.

And I think online culture, this is something that like where I think Norm and I share a little bit of a BNR bonnet, I think online culture has trained us to think that everything is about us.

Our opinion needs to be shared with everything like, and and if it's not perfectly tailored for us that there's something offensive, it's the Super Bowl.

It's not the United Nations.

You know, this international.

Yeah, it's a football game.

It's okay if it's not necessarily your cup of tea.

>> Let's talk about the game.

I'm not a I don't know anything about football.

Like I know very little about football, but I can tell you that they no one played well.

I don't know.

My team wasn't there.

So that so then therefore was the Super Bowl really meant for me?

No.

Good commercials were terrible.

They weren't for me either.

I mean, come on.

>> Right.

I think it's an opportunity.

I'm not the biggest bad bunny fan.

Before the Super Bowl, I honestly, I wasn't I mean, I like him, I had some catchy songs, but he wasn't in my, my pod, you know?

And now now I am going to I actually I actually have downloaded more of his music because I was just so impressed with him.

But that's what we, you know, have to give things a chance and discover things that we didn't know we liked or work on different levels.

We weren't even expecting.

I think that's why a lot of people were so emotional.

No one was expecting.

I was expecting just great music and some dancing.

I wasn't expecting all these emotional, deep cultural cuz I know I was.

I'll be the first to admit, and I know many people who who shed some tears during the show because it was so moving.

>> Yes, and I gotta say something.

I believe the way he did this, it was for everybody to learn about the culture, our identity.

So it was meant for everybody.

Everybody.

If you if you don't belong to the culture or.

Yeah, this is here for you to see what we are about.

>> It's a very firm.

It was a very affirming thing.

in a culture that doesn't necessarily affirm Latino culture or even recognize the diversity within the culture, we're everywhere.

We're everywhere, and we all have different Americans.

>> I mean, like, you brought this up earlier, Norma, but what is it like to hear some of the criticism say, like, well, how come we're not featuring Americans?

>> Yeah.

Well, that's that's a, that's a that you need to go get a history book, crack it open and learn.

Okay.

Puerto Ricans are U.S.

citizens.

You can think of us as second class citizens, or maybe not even citizens.

But the fact remains that we are citizens of the United States.

>> Yeah.

And it's a constant battle to keep the culture alive.

And it's it's something we all should be doing.

I mean, like, if the halftime show were Riverdance, I wouldn't have complained.

>> I like Riverdance.

>> I went to Riverdance.

>> I.

>> Did too, I went to River Dance at Finger Lakes Performing Arts Center before it was CMAC.

I loved it.

>> Yeah, but.

>> That's what I mean.

Like, even if you don't, who cares?

Like, maybe you.

I don't love Prince.

Oh no.

I admitted.

>> Something.

I know, Evan.

>> I shouldn't have.

>> Said that.

Yeah, okay.

>> I'm gonna learn to love Prince.

I didn't love Prince, but I wasn't like, hey, this isn't for me.

>> Sure.

>> So why is it when it is Spanish speaking?

Why is it that when it's Puerto Rican culture, all of a sudden it has to be for you?

Or there's an offense, right?

>> Like Bruno Mars is Puerto Rican and he sings in English.

Nobody minded, you know, there's been other Latin artists from other countries, U2, who I'm a big fan of, but it's about keeping the culture going.

I one of the things that made me tear up a little bit is my I'm my stepfather, who raised me from the time I was two, is from Aibonito, Puerto Rico.

So I was very much raised with the culture.

And, you know, he fought for this country.

He's buried at Arlington Cemetery.

He can't get any more American than that.

He has a Purple Heart and everything.

And he would pull me away from my my Prince and U2 and Tribe Called Quest records, and he'd make me listen to, like, music.

Yeah.

And he trying to move that culture forward just to keep that alive in so we know our roots.

We all should know our roots, regardless of where we're from.

And so to see somebody put that at the forefront when they could have just made the spotlight about themselves just was so powerful.

>> It really was.

My mother always said, if I if I don't teach my culture to you girls, it will die with me.

And that means the language, the food, the the people, the island.

And it's just it's beautiful.

so yeah, to me, it was very emotional.

my daughters, they just said to me, mama, you were really loud.

And I'm like, I know, I'm sorry.

>> What did they think?

>> You know, my girls.

>> They're too young to understand Bad Bunny lyrics or even the whole allure of Bad Bunny.

They're into Taylor Swift.

>> They think of the spectacle of the show.

>> Oh, they loved it.

Yeah, yeah, it was like.

It was like a movie to them, you know?

And and we watched it with them.

Yeah, absolutely.

>> It was my daughter was saying, it looks like a this amazing show, Broadway show type of level.

>> How old is your wife?

I like that idea.

>> My daughter's 19, and my son is 17, so they were watching with us and they were, like, just amazed.

And they loved the culture and they they were able to see everything that we have taught them about our culture and our identity.

So it was nice to see that for them and also for everybody else that doesn't belong to our culture, like here.

This is who are the Latinos?

And look at the Latinos right here at the halftime show where we have Tonita from New York City.

who keeps having resources and services for the Latino community over there.

Yeah.

So it's.

>> So institution.

>> She is amazing.

>> Yeah.

>> All right.

Let me see if I can grab Keith again on the phone.

Hey, Keith, go ahead.

>> Heaven.

The longer I'm home, the more thoughts I come into my mind.

But if you Google Bad Bunny Lego.

last year in July, they proposed a Lego idea of the Bad Bunny home that was pictured in the Super Bowl.

it's under review.

If they want to bring it to full production, which I can see that they are so just Google Bad Bunny Lego.

but I remember when watching that, I'm going to date myself.

Probably older than all your people there, but I remember when the Rolling Stones were on Ed Sullivan and they couldn't say the line, let's spend the night together.

They had to change it.

Let's spend some time together because people were offended by the words.

They're just words.

I would judge people more harshly by their actions than what they say.

But the other thing is, I don't think enough credit.

And you did see right at the end they did mention somebody who was a producer, but the people who put together the idea, the choreography, the music direction, the director, the producers of it I think they did a phenomenal job because he just didn't entertain.

He told a story.

And when I was watching it, I saw the telephone poles and my wife had a, you know, a blank look.

I said, if you listen to NPR last week, they were talking about the election and some of the problems that they have in Puerto Rico with the electrical grid.

That's why the telephone poles were there.

>> Yeah.

>> Is he on the payroll?

Is Keith on the payroll?

>> No, he's a semi-frequent caller, and he's always welcome anybody's always welcome.

And this is supposed to be the public square here.

And as I've been a little fired up because I don't mind good faith criticism of anything, I see a lot of bad faith criticism that says, well, the lyrics were vulgar.

Well, you picked up a meme that was wrong.

>> I'm going to I'm going.

>> To say this, I'm going to say this, and I'm going to say this.

This is the last time I'm going to say it.

I get it, I'm a parent.

I would never let my children listen to some of Bad Bunny songs with period.

I wouldn't let them listen to it now.

Okay, I understand that.

I understand that there's nothing wrong with being offended by the lyrics and not thinking it's appropriate for your children or for yourself.

Yeah.

I mean, to be honest with you.

so.

So that's fine.

You know, he was an artist.

He is not the artist.

He does not represent all of the music of Latin America.

He's not the sole representative of our culture, of our people, of the nations that were mentioned.

Let's not lose sight of that.

No one is deifying him.

We understand he's a performer.

He's an artist.

And yes, that was art that was created.

And if you miss that point, and if you also miss the point at the very end where the message was about love over hate, and that we are better when we're united.

I mean, you're really missing the point, people.

Let's not get, you know, all upset about one song, one lyric or even ten lyrics.

I don't care, you're missing the point.

But I'm not saying you're wrong.

I'm saying if you if you don't like it, I get it, I get it I totally and I understand.

>> It, but.

But can you then flip over and be like, I need the wholesomeness of kid Rock?

>> no.

I cannot make that argument.

And I would never.

>> That's where I'm like, what do we do?

>> Well.

>> That's a, that's a, that's an incorrect comparison.

And I don't think I would not go from that point to that point.

There's no there's no line there.

There's no.

>> Linear again argument.

I absolutely have have your takes.

But try to be consistent.

That's that's what I want.

I've got some really interesting emails, some pretty spicy emails.

and some like spicy Orozco.

>> On the other side of this.

>> So we're gonna take our only break of the hour.

We're going to come back with my colleague Julio Sáenz and Norma Holland Anabelle Del Valle del Valle, who is with us here, and we're talking about, the cultural impact of the Super Bowl halftime show.

We'll come right back with more of your feedback on the other side.

I'm Evan Dawson Thursday on the next Connections, Assembly member Steven Hawley joins us talking about the state budget, his priorities for Albany, his thoughts on the behavior of Ice in his district, and more.

In our second hour, University of Rochester's Harry Reese joins us.

He's got a new book exploring the science of love and happiness.

So what does he learned?

We'll talk about it Thursday.

>> You know, my mother hates him.

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to care when and where it's needed.

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Believing an informed public makes for a stronger community.

Proud supporter of Connections with Evan Dawson.

Focused on the news, issues and trends that shape the lives of listeners in the Rochester and Finger Lakes regions.

>> Bobjohnsonautogroup.com.

This is Connections.

I'm Evan Dawson back to your phone calls.

We go.

This is Patricia in Rochester.

Hi, Patricia.

Go ahead.

Once again, I'm not hearing him.

Could be easier.

I think we got Patricia.

If you're there, Patricia, go ahead.

Got me.

Yep.

>> Okay.

Sorry.

Thank you for taking my call.

I just had a comment.

My 83 year old mom who watches more right wing you know, media.

And that's where she gets her information.

Was expecting.

Bad Bunny.

To be this man in a terrible rabbit costume and coming out and being this wretched person, and she said to me he was just a normal man.

And he was so charismatic and and it was just joyful, and I was I was really proud of her.

You know, she's coming over to the other side here.

So he helped.

>> Well, what's interesting, Patricia, is that she actually watched it.

She didn't just wait.

She didn't just say, well, I know enough.

I don't need to see it.

She watched it.

And then, like I said, she saw a traditional wedding being celebrated.

And she saw joy, and she saw positive messages, and she she heard him say, God bless America.

Probably not what she was expecting.

>> No, not at all.

So she was pleasantly surprised.

And, you know, it was just a great moment for her, I think.

>> Well, an interesting data point.

Thank you.

Patricia, thank you for the phone call.

I don't know, Annabelle.

What did your mother think?

>> Oh, my mom didn't like it.

>> At all.

>> And I was like, mom, I'm going to the radio show to talk about Bad Bunny.

And she was like, oh, no.

Oh, why that guy?

>> Yeah.

>> I'm like, well, you know, you don't have to like it.

You're Latina.

You don't you don't like him.

So it's just for another group of people.

>> Well, let me go ahead and read some more of your feedback here.

Mary says I'm a 69 year old retired white lady.

I absolutely loved, loved, loved Bad Bunny's halftime show.

I could not stop moving or look away from the screen.

I was watching closely for the tossing of the paper towels, embarrassment, and the fact that he didn't include that.

I think even more highly of him, that he didn't go to that low hanging fruit.

That's from Mary, true Mary.

But he did not hesitate to riff on the power grid that we've talked about the issues of the way that Puerto Rico has been treated and governed and and given sort of less attention and less respect.

But he did it in ways that, you know, they're dancing on the power poles.

>> Yeah.

>> Well, as you noticed, they were like climbing up and then they were like falling down the power, like kind of like yeah.

But he's not being given credit for that because we, we don't focus on the positive.

We focus on the negative.

>> Yeah.

He did, he did the song that the song of his that Ricky Martin sang was that, you know, don't let what happened to Hawaii happen to Puerto Rico.

And that's a reference definitely to some of the gentrification that's happened on the island since the hurricane, where a lot of people left the island.

A lot of people have come in and they've there's, you know, the there's the favorable tax laws.

I actually one of my roommates from college who's a multi-millionaire now, he started an online business that made him a multi multi-millionaire.

He moved there a few years ago for those tax benefits.

Now, I still remember when we were in college, he'd come home and have gondolas and everything with my family, so luckily he appreciates the culture and he loves it there.

He's been there for about ten years now, but there's also that shift happening on the island.

>> I mean, if you think about the island's history was at one point, you know, companies like you said, this favorable tax laws, you know, it was known as like a pharmaceutical island.

Allergan, I remember, had a had a plant there and would produce, products and things.

a friend of mine just bought a house in my mother's hometown of Arroyo, and she bought a plot of land with her husband.

and she told me, you know, it's real estate is really tough right now.

You got to come in with a high cash offer because a lot of, you know, cash offers are coming in, you know, money from other places and people paying cash for things on the on the spot.

So hey, I think it's, you know, it's it's there's it's a double edged sword.

Right.

Investment is good.

It can also there can also be a downside to it.

So yes I think that's a cautionary tale.

>> Let me read some more emails that keep coming in here.

Daisy says Evan, we keep hearing that Trump did better in the last election with Latinos, and then Trump comes out and says, after Bad Bunny performed that no one could understand him.

It's like he's not even caring about some of the people who might have even voted for him.

Let me read a little bit of Trump's statement.

I'm not gonna make this whole thing about Trump, but the president put out a statement on Truth Social.

He said.

The Super Bowl halftime show is absolutely terrible, one of the worst ever.

It makes no sense is an affront to the greatness of America and doesn't represent our standards of success, creativity or excellence.

And nobody understands a word the guy is saying.

>> But he was.

It.

>> Well, he was.

>> So, first of all, Mar.

>> A Lago.

>> By the way, they showed the scene of Mar a Lago.

That's what they were watching.

They're watching Bad Bunny.

But he says Annabelle when he.

So Daisy is upset that said that Trump is saying no one understands him when there are 30 million Spanish as a first language, Spanish speakers as first language in this country.

Obviously, there's many people who might have even voted for this president, and he's saying, you can't even understand the guy.

What do you make of that?

>> I don't know, he needs to learn Spanish then.

I mean, he is kind of governing Puerto Rico as well.

And it's part of the USA.

So you should know, a matter of fact, that should be a requirement for the president to know.

>> I want a Spanish.

I want to let there be a quiz.

>> yeah.

Norma.

So Daisy says the president is insulting a community that apparently voted in bigger numbers for him in this last election.

And he says no one can understand a Spanish speaker.

>> You know.

>> That's too bad.

Again, these are missed opportunities for learning and for education.

What would happen if we as a nation approached each other with curiosity and wonder what would happen if I approached you with, you know, Annabelle, I don't know much about the Dominican Republic.

In fact, I don't understand some of the words that you use.

They're different than my words.

and we both speak Spanish.

Could you tell me or explain to me what is it about?

Or what is so wonderful about your.

island., right.

>> Yeah.

>> What would happen if that's how we approached each other instead of, you know what, you don't.

Your way of doing things doesn't meet my standard of success.

Art, culture, beauty, whatever.

What if I approached you, us, each other differently?

>> Well, and I'm thinking about the last hour that we had.

We talked about birthright citizenship.

And there's this Rochester lawyer in the 1880s who ends up arguing a case that became one of the foundational texts about birthright citizenship.

And the concern in California was Chinese people.

They even passed laws saying, we're going to limit the number of Chinese people who can come in.

And then, of course, over time, at one point it was Italians and it was Irish.

I, I just want to uphold what Norma says here.

I respect anyone's right to not like lyrics or not say that art's not for me.

But there's a difference between that and saying that, you know, your culture is lower standards, doesn't represent our standards, or no one can understand your language when it's Spanish, you know, like we have this history of being scared.

someone instead of loving and being being curious.

>> No, there's no curiosity.

There's no curiosity.

And I think that if you if we did that with one another, we would be a whole lot better off a man, a man said to a man, I think, I don't know who it was.

Someone reached out to me on, on Twitter and said, or excuse me X and he said, well, what's next?

The halftime show in French, in German you know, in another language.

And I responded, I'm like, hey, that sounds great.

The more the merrier, you know?

I mean, I yeah, I don't know, there's no curiosity.

>> But there are so many people here that speak the language, and we're the second minority.

Julio, you know, more.

>> Than in New York State, we're the largest minority in the United States as well.

>> Exactly.

And then there's 20 something plus 30 countries that speak Spanish.

So and then the halftime show is kind of like a global thing.

>> So he's the number one artist in the world and has been.

>> Yeah.

>> For a number of years.

>> So let me just read a few more emails here because I could probably do this all day.

Bridget says you and your guest, seven, have talked about the Bad Bunny songs with some sexually explicit lyrics, but there's a lot more to his music.

Check out his latest album.

Lots of very interesting and meaningful songs and traditions, traditional music forms and instruments.

Shout out to NPR.

Heard about Bad Bunny through a tiny Tiny Desk concert.

All right, a lot of great music through Tiny Desk concerts.

I think we got Johnny Mambo coming in here.

>> Look at this.

Hey, Johnny.

>> It's a live show here.

>> Hey, welcome.

Join us.

>> Grab that microphone if you want.

There.

Thank you.

You want to introduce yourself?

This is.

We don't usually.

This is live radio here.

>> I feel like we love it.

It's a party.

>> We're doing it live.

Welcome, sir.

>> Thank you for having me.

It's pleasure to be here.

>> It's been a little while.

How are you?

>> I'm doing good.

Thank you.

>> Very good.

so we were just talking.

I don't know if you heard, but Bad Bunny performed at the Super Bowl.

I don't know if.

>> You saw that.

>> Did you.

>> Hear that?

>> And it turns out that it was really sort of kind of a dud.

Not a lot of talk about it, but we just thought maybe we should know.

There's a lot of talk about it.

You want to share what you thought about the Super Bowl performance here?

>> I thought it was amazing.

I thought it was great.

it was a great performance and a great way to connect with the people who aren't Hispanic.

It's a great way to introduce them to our culture and our our way of living.

The way we put our festivities together, and I thought it was awesome.

It was overall just a great show.

>> Favorite part of the show?

>> my favorite part of the show was when I saw the young, young boy, I believe it was a young boy who was asleep on the chair.

>> Yeah, he was.

>> Partying behind him because that was me back in.

>> The day.

>> I was.

>> Going to ask, I gotta get to one of these parties.

Who said it went exactly?

>> Yeah.

We're leaving in a few minutes.

In a.

>> Few minutes.

>> A few hours.

>> About these small that just went over.

>> So.

>> So for you, that was the authentic.

It was.

>> Like.

>> Well, that was one of my favorite parts.

Yeah.

I thought that the the show in its entirety was authentic, but that was definitely my favorite part.

>> Well, we're reading through some emails here and I'm just going to keep going here.

Okay.

Couple from Caleb.

He says, I love that Benito has not abandoned the LGBTQ+ community by raising queer voices such as Lady Gaga and Ricky Martin.

He gave Ricky Martin a chance to perform in Spanish, and he says one of the powerful, powerful points in his half time show was the moment that he turned it over to Lady Gaga, saying, is this what you want in Spanish?

Referring to the Americans who are upset at a Latino performing in so many words as saying, asking a queer artist, is this what you're upset about?

Or is this what you want to see?

He says, I'm wondering.

One of your guests would say, I'm interpreting Benito correctly there.

I only know minimal Spanish.

Bad Bunny is more than just made my day.

He has carried me through the coming days here, so Caleb loved it, but he saw him say to Lady Gaga like.

Or he turns and says, is this what you want?

I didn't catch that moment.

>> Yes, he said, and this is what you want.

And and then the the cameras go to the wedding.

So I'm not sure I believe that's part of one of his songs.

but I'm not sure if it was that the message?

That's a good question for another interview.

Bad Bunny.

Call me, call me again, Rochester.

>> We'll say yes.

Yes, we'll say yes.

He will come back.

We're saying yes.

>> If he wants to.

>> Come.

>> Yeah.

To come on the show this time.

>> Yeah.

Pick him up from.

>> The airport.

>> This time for sure.

>> Here's Rick, he says, having been born in East Harlem many decades ago, I know how important cultural identity is for Puerto Ricans.

My abuela told me many stories about growing up in Puerto Rico, and I understand that I am Puerto Rican.

Fast forward to college.

After years of being told by many from the island that because I was not born on the island, I might not really be Puerto Rican yet.

When I graduated from college, my Puerto Rican classmates, all of whom were born and raised on the island, gave me as a graduation gift a Puerto Rican flag as a clear acknowledgment of my identity as a Puerto Rican.

Sarah Boricua is mas qué una direccion?

Cultural identity today, yesterday and tomorrow will always be based on decisions we make about ourselves, not judgments made about us by others.

That is from Rick.

>> That's a.

>> Loaded email.

>> Yeah.

>> That's that's a lot, Rick.

>> And who's who's Latino enough and not and that's a whole other show.

>> Oh, yes.

>> thank you, Rick and David writing from Ovid in the Finger Lakes, listening on WEOS Finger Lakes Public Radio says that so many Americans have a virtually automatic knee jerk reaction of anything, not sufficiently not sufficiently white to them, is beyond dismaying to me.

I want an America that is accepting and multicultural, not an artificially bleached white supremacist dystopia.

People who think America should be exclusively white don't seem to know the history of this continent.

If any group is not original to this place, it's white people from Europe.

Whoa!

All right, David and Ovid coming out strong there.

But I mean, I, I hear it and I wonder, do you see fear in the reaction for the people who didn't like the show, or maybe preemptively felt.

>> Like.

>> I do?

I kind of thought.

>> There was a lot.

>> Of fear I do.

>> What do you think people are afraid of?

>> that this country is becoming more black and brown than ever before.

>> That's been happening, though, right?

>> It has.

It has.

It's been a fair for a long time.

>> So what do you say to a white neighbor of yours who says, I don't recognize this country?

It's not the country I grew up in because I'm hearing that a lot in in certain parts of certain media spaces.

What do you say?

>> It's true.

I respect it, but it's true.

It is.

>> And and don't fear it.

>> I don't I don't.

>> Okay.

>> Invite him to the.

>> Party.

And no one should.

I mean, we are rich culture.

Learn from us and enjoy us and come together.

And that was the message of Bad Bunny concert.

Like come unite and come together.

We don't have to.

It doesn't have to be one group and another group.

Why don't you come together?

>> We've always been here.

That's the thing to you.

You may be seeing us now, but we've always been here.

And yeah, it's growing, but we've always been here since before the founding of the country.

And and as I said before, I just as someone who really loves cultures from lots of places, I'm just amazed that so many generations of other folks from other countries that came before us had to change their names.

I don't know how many folks I've talked to.

>> Who are we always hear that story.

>> Who are Polish.

And I'm like, well, my real last name was something else, but my grandparents had to change it.

Or yeah, I'm Italian and and, you know, like Natalie Merchant from 10,000 maniacs, her last name, real last name is Mercado.

But her family had to change it from Mercado to Merchant.

Wow.

Italian.

And they weren't accepted like that.

Has to stop.

>> Yeah, so let me tie a little thread together.

One of the guitar players in 10,000 maniacs, Stephen Gustafson, a distant cousin of mine.

Because my last name is actually Gustafson.

It's not Dawson because when my great grandfather came to this country, he did not speak much English.

He had a very heavy Swedish accent, and his would be employer was like, I do not like your accent.

I don't like the fact that you can't speak English, and I don't like your name.

And we're going to change it.

And they looked at the cabaret across the street, and Dawson was the name of the performer.

>> And they said, that's.

>> Who you are.

>> Wow, I.

>> Thought I knew everything about you.

>> That is not the same as the experience of, you know, sort of black and brown Americans who have gone through much worse.

But what it says is we've spent a long time in this country a little fearful of anything a little different, you know, and the reaction, I'm with you.

I think the reaction is fear based for the people who thought they just wouldn't like this, and they had to convince themselves to tune out.

>> Again, I go, I'm going to I'm going to say it again, if you were if we were to approach each other with curiosity instead of fear, instead of I'm afraid of you because you're different, you're missing out on a whole world of people that you don't get to know because you instantly put up a wall.

You don't know how many friendships you could make.

You don't know.

You know how many businesses could be started because you talked to another guy who maybe or another person.

Another another woman.

You made a woman, you talk and, oh, let's start a business.

All I'm saying is we miss out on opportunities.

So many that can yield beautiful things.

Relationships, you know, businesses, all kinds of beautiful things.

Because we don't want to assimilate or rather not assimilate because we don't want to associate with one another.

>> So before we lose the hour here, let's drop a little musical wreck.

Because after all, this was a musical performance.

>> Can we dance?

I mean.

>> You definitely.

>> Can dance.

>> Vamos a bailar.

Come on, let's go.

>> Slow down.

Are you ready?

>> Slow down.

>> Dawson.

>> I'm gonna.

I'm probably gonna tear ACL.

I'm not as young as I used to be.

Norma, let's go around the table.

What are you listening to these days?

What's good?

>> I am definitely listening to Bad Bunny.

But my favorite genre of music is rock and roll music, to be honest with you.

Yeah, yeah.

>> Nice.

Yeah.

For me right now I'm listening to a group of Venezuelans.

They are a little bit like tribal music but with Latin rhythms too.

So.

>> Okay.

Julio Sáenz.

>> Which is a crunk bin.

It's this great band from Houston and they're very multicultural.

The bass players, Mexican American, the drummers, African American, the guitar players, you know, Anglo and one of the baddest guitar players.

>> I've heard.

>> All time.

And the name is from the, the Thai word for airplane or something.

>> Like that.

>> It's very multicultural.

We play them here on the route quite a bit, but it's a great band.

>> Khruangbin okay.

>> Julio's a man of the world.

>> He knows every.

>> I think Julio actually knows everybody does.

Okay.

What are.

>> You listening to?

Whatever my children want.

>> To listen.

That's right.

Exactly.

Wow.

Children of a certain age.

I got.

>> A.

>> Ten year old.

>> You guys do what I play.

Whatever they want.

>> If you've got kids of a certain age.

>> Yes.

>> Yeah.

I'll close with this here.

Joel said.

Why aren't we.

Why aren't we talking ever about the fact that the first non native language of the Americas is Spanish?

talking about colonialism and how that even happened, you know, that's it's a whole other story, Joel.

But that is I mean, it's tied to this.

Of course it is.

One of the things I appreciate most about what Bad Bunny did was it was an incredibly entertaining show.

You do not have.

My Spanish is poor these days.

It was better back.

>> It was better when we worked.

>> Together.

Better.

It's better.

It's been a long time since.

>> Leonard did that, and I still could barely pick up any because it's so fast, right?

I'm like, yo, Bad Bunny, please.

>> Yeah.

>> But it was beautiful.

It was interesting.

It was fun, and it was joyful and it was it was a lot of history.

It was a lot of teaching.

If you're paying attention to what our guests have been talking about, these elements that they picked up on, that you might not have picked up on, what an amazing performance and what an amazing show and production, top to bottom.

So can I just thank all the guests for coming in and and bringing it home with us.

And I really appreciate your perspectives here.

I know you are all very busy.

I know that guys.

Busy.

Thank you for making cutting.

>> An hour out of your day.

That's my boss.

>> Thank you.

>> Julio, great to see you.

>> Thank you.

Norma.

Johnny.

Thank you.

Annabel.

Anytime.

>> Let's come back.

Let's keep talking.

>> Yeah.

Call me everyone.

And from all of us at Connections.

Thank you for listening.

Thank you for watching.

If you're on the YouTube stream, wherever you're finding us, whatever platform.

Thank you for supporting your public media.

>> Hey.

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