From WXXI news, this is connections.

I'm Evan Dawson.

Our connection this hour will be made on Tuesday, November 3rd, 2026.

That's when the congressional midterm elections will be held.

Democrats might wish that the midterms were next week, not next year.

They are confident that the newly passed budget bill will remain so unpopular that they can take back control of the House, maybe by a big margin.

But to do that, Democrats will have to hone a message, and they'll have to win in places that they lost in 2024 or in the case of my guest this hour, 2022.

Back in 2022, Republican Claudia Tenney won by 31 points over Democrat Stephen Holden in Congressional District number 24 in the state.

Holden is a retired U.S. Army lieutenant colonel who grew up on a dairy farm in Oklahoma, and he had hoped that his story might open some more Republican doors, but it didn't really happen.

In fact, in the 2022 election, the 24th Congressional district voted more strongly Republican than any other district in the state.

And it's a huge district in the West.

It starts north of Buffalo, up against the lake.

It moves southeast, picks up much of the Finger Lakes while avoiding Rochester to the north, and then juts up to Lake Ontario all the way to the Thousand Islands.

Gerrymandering remains alive and well.

But with the new budget bill and the big looming cuts to Medicaid and food stamps, Democrats see an opening in more rural districts like this one, even in the 24th Congressional district.

So Stephen Holden is running again, and to win, he's going to have to solve some challenges.

How can he reverse a 31 point blowout?

Why do so many farmers and veterans love President Trump and vote Republican?

He is a veteran.

He grew up on a dairy farm.

How could he change their minds?

There's a lot to talk about this hour.

Stephen Holden is back with us running for Congress in District number 24.

Welcome back to the program.

Thank you for being here.

Thanks, Evan.

Thanks.

It's great to be here.

And this is a bit of a drive.

We were talking before the program began about just the breadth and the size of this district.

It's not like Rochester.

What?

You know, Congressman Joe Morelli, district 25 is Monroe County here?

And it's not like Syracuse.

It it it kind of goes into this donut around Rochester.

Rochester is the donut hole.

And it goes from north of Buffalo, down through the Finger Lakes all the way up to the Thousand Islands.

How many miles on the car do you pull?

Well, I'll give you an example of this.

So, on election night a couple years, a few years ago, we decided to put, have me start out at the very beginning of the district and drive all the way to the and hitting and 12, which by now it's Paul parts of 14 counties.

And we started at 530 in the morning in Clayton.

By the time we got to Newfane it was 730 at night.

And so it is to go one direction you, it takes about 2 to 4 hours and 45 minutes in my car to go up.

If you're going up to Alex Bay in the thousand in the Thousand Islands area, it probably takes about an hour and a half to go there.

It's.

And then that's not talking about going south into the northern part of Steuben County and the northern part of Schuyler County, almost down near Ithaca.

It's and then, you know, we have Letchworth State Park in that area all the way down into Wyoming County.

It's massive.

It's massive.

And to me, it just looks like gerrymandering run amuck.

Is that correct?

I would concur on that.

Yeah.

It it it is.

And I came to notice we noticed the challenges we had from a few years ago.

But we do see opportunities this time around.

And we're going to talk about that in many different ways this hour.

Because this is a conversation not just about one congressional race, but for listeners who are curious to know what it would take for things to flip or change, or if you are perhaps hoping that Republicans can build a more of a stronghold, we're going to talk about how this candidate sees some of those dynamics and what he learned in the previous congressional race that we'll talk about.

I will also say that we would love to have Claudia Tenney on this program.

We would love to have any member of Congress on this program.

Candidates for Congress.

You are all welcome.

And so Representative Tenney has been invited, has not responded in the past to our invitations, has going to be invited again and again and again.

And we do hope that Representative Tenney takes us up on that.

She is more than welcome and would be eager to have that conversation.

So we're talking to Stephen Holden.

And, you know, I, I suspect back in 2022, you knew that it was a tough situation, tough dynamics, tough voter registration rolls.

And yet, you know, I mean, it's the biggest Republican win in the state.

It's a 31 point loss.

Why are you doing this again?

Well, because we because there's a message is still needs to get out there and there are people that still need to be represented properly.

One of the things we learned again, this is a very large and logistically challenging district.

It's it's almost meant to grind you down.

The the thing that we're going to be getting out there now is that, you know, hey, look, the things that we talked about a few years ago, unfortunately, are coming to fruition now.

We spoke about the potentialities of the impacts on rural communities when it comes to, hospital hospitals, when it comes to farms, when it comes to rural schools, everything to rural free delivery for, the postal service, all those things that we said, you know, it's going to be a tough haul and a tough sell, but unfortunately, they they came to fruition now and we don't say, we told you so we say join us.

You know, there are a lot of, you know, people that didn't get out to vote, it again, it was a tough year for getting people out to begin with.

It was just really a challenge.

And the other thing that we're going to say is, hey, look, we're going to highlight those rural areas.

We're also going to highlight the fact that you know, we have ongoing foreign policy issues right now that you know, of, for me in particular, that I have a great amount of experience with, you know, particularly we start talking things like Iran.

So those are things that we're going to highlight that are completely different than a number of years ago.

And it was also tough because, I mean, Democrats across the state just we took a bath yet that year.

It was it was tough for everybody.

And so we're going to take those lessons learned.

We have them and, you know, we're going to grow off of them from there.

So let me let me just back up and and talk a little bit more about your own background in service.

That is part of what are hinting at when you talk about Iran, when you talk about foreign policy, because we're going to talk about Medicaid, we're going to talk about domestic politics in just a moment here.

But let me just back up for for listeners who may not know a little bit more about you, you're retired U.S. Army lieutenant colonel, you were born and raised on a dairy farm in Oklahoma.

You have some Native American heritage.

Cherokee.

Shy, Arapaho.

Choctaw.

You came to Central New York in 2006 when the Army sent you to Syracuse University School of Business.

And you've got three adult children.

One who has served in the U.S. Air Force Reserves.

Is that right?

Yes.

That's my stepson.

Oh, that's your stepson.

Okay.

Very good.

And so, so that's a little bit about your own background.

And when I read a little bit more, on your own notes about your career, you write that in 2003, you were sent to your first deployment to Iraq, where you were involved with the capture of Saddam Hussein with the fourth Infantry.

How were you involved with that?

So, we were part of the the staff financing of that particular operation.

We were in Tikrit.

He was captured in ad war.

So the money that went to fund all the logistical pieces of that operation is what we were a part of.

So we were right there when that when that all happened right there at the very, very beginning there.

And so again and again, that was right there in his hometown is that that's where we were located.

Okay.

And, what do you remember most about that time in your service and what those days were like?

It was very tough.

When we went in during the initial force, we had no idea how long we were going to be there.

We were told three, four, three months, four months.

It was kind of unclear the operation because, the Baath Party fell so quickly.

But then the insurgency happened, so we had to change course on the type of operation.

And so it was just a lot of it was a lot of uncertainty.

We had to do a lot of humanitarian assistance projects.

We had to do a lot of, security operations.

It was way back in the day when there was a lot of counterinsurgency operations that were going on during that time.

And so Saddam gets captured and, people probably remember some of those scenes and what that was like.

But then certainly what happens after his capture and in the power vacuum isn't it isn't exactly as then sector run, Rumsfeld and others had predicted it would happen and Iraq has not.

And I don't think anybody's pining for Saddam Hussein to come back.

But Iraq has not been a sort of successful, thriving state since his departure.

And when you look at Iran now, Iran is a very, very different country.

Absolutely is very different.

But but what do you see happening there and what concerns you?

The thing that concerns me is just how different it is and how large it is.

For if you remember back, during the initial, the initial part of Iraq, which I've been on record to say was a mistake for us to go into to begin with, we had we had Saddam contained with the northern and southern fly zones.

And I'd been on record about that, but it took about 8 to 10, division size elements to be able to contain Iraq.

That's what the population of about 25 million people.

Same thing.

You take a look at Afghanistan, similar population.

Iran is over 90 million people right about that.

And it is just a massive country.

So we don't have enough people to even secure the country.

If we had to put boots on the ground.

And the the other thing to remember with is we won't have allies coming with us.

We're not we can't call the Australians or the Brits or the French or anybody to come along with us because it would be on our own.

And, and that and that is a big concern from an operational standpoint.

Well, what's interesting about the politics of, the MAGA movement is that it includes quite a lot of people who wanted no more foreign interference.

And and so do you encounter that a lot in your district when you travel?

Yes, I do, and what what are people telling you?

They want no part of it.

And I run especially, into a lot of fellow veterans who are into that.

For those of us who were, you know, like I said to them, our deployments I did deployed over and over and over again.

They don't want any part of it because they see that excessive, entanglement again.

That's another thing.

It's different this time around than last time.

And going to Iran would be a strategic mistake on so many different levels for some of the ones I mentioned, not to mention just what the allies would look like over there, you know, you know, a Putin's on the side of Iran.

You know, we take a look at Ukraine, President Zelensky supports Israel.

It's all over the place.

You have, you know, what what are the Saudis going to do?

Because they're generally on on the side there.

Is India going to get involved?

Those are some of the things from a strategic level that people have asked me about.

And I said the, the, the, the work on the ground in the allies on the ground would kind of be all over the place.

It would it would be so unclear as to where we would be going and what we'll be doing and what's the strategic outcome.

Yeah.

Alone, having the ability to secure the areas.

Look that that's that's a that's a huge problem.

So what you're describing this we're talking to Steven Holden who's running for Congress.

In the 24th Congressional District in New York, which is a lot of our listenership, no matter where you are listening, if you're not in Monroe County, you may be in 24.

It's a huge district that goes from north of Buffalo, down sweeps down south of Monroe County, through the Finger Lakes, all the way up to the Thousand Islands.

So it's a huge geographical area.

And, Steven A is a Democrat who ran in 2022 and lost Claudia Tenney running in 2026, in which the Democrats are hoping for a big midterm wave here.

So some of what you're describing, I want to take your temperature on here, but some of the dynamics of the electorate, you've got part of the MAGA movement, a pretty strong part that doesn't want foreign entanglement intact and are not thrilled with what's going on.

Joining this war against Iran, bombing Iran.

What's to some degree, there is I mean, it is not like a unipolar view of Gaza.

I mean, there's a lot of different views.

So so you've got this element and then you have, a strong love of service that tends on the American.

Right.

So there's 100 members of Congress who are veterans, 72 are Republicans, only 28 are Democrats.

So if you are able to like to sell this background that you have that you are a, a service member, that you were part of the operation to depose Saddam Hussein, that you served this country in uniform, that you understand what that means and yet you appreciate the concern for no more foreign entanglements.

And yet when you look around, Donald Trump's approval rating himself isn't all that affected by some of the stuff.

You know, he continues to do very well with his own voters.

He didn't serve very famously.

He avoided service.

So why do why do so many Republicans and so many Trump Republicans love veterans?

If the president famously avoided service, and is now kind of going back on so much of what he promised people about how to use the military, why has it not not broken through?

I think part of it we've we've got part of it.

We've got to do a better message.

I know that we've kind of, you know, you know, kind of talked about it, talked around it a good bit.

There's this whole concept of patriotism that they think they own patriots ism.

Patriotism just it isn't just saying I support the troops.

You know, one of the one of the ways that you do it is by showing it putting flesh and skin in the game and putting money in the game.

We're going to see cuts to the VA. You know, the next thing that's coming down the pipe is the Veterans Choice Act, which is going to look to privatize the VA. And if that happens, you're only going to exacerbate the problem in a lot of these rural spaces with their hospitals, because people like me require a very specific type of health care that isn't around in most.

And at your average hospital.

So the way that we have to say is saying, you know, hey, look, if you truly do support the troops, number one, you're going to you're going to honor the commitment that you made to us when we swore an oath and came in.

It's good that you put lip service to it.

Now, let's actually now let's actually do it.

Congresswoman Tenney has voted against the burn pits, you know, a number of years ago supporting the cuts again.

And so they at the very beginning, until there was an outrage from both sides of the aisle, they were looking to cut veterans crisis lines, you know, for, for, for suicide prevention.

There's nothing patriotic about that.

There's also nothing patriotic about, you know, putting servicemembers in danger in places, let's say, like how you did over in cutter to the Iranians and just saying, okay, go ahead.

And I dare you to bomb us in.

They did.

There's nothing patriotic about that, about endangering servicemembers and taking away our health care in our options.

Those are the things that we have to drive home.

And I just this past week, I was down at the VFW in Canandaigua, and that was the attitude in there.

It's like, we're done.

We've seen what she's doing.

They want to close these VA's.

What can we do to help?

So again, just in the past few days, we've seen anecdotal evidence of that.

Right?

I think part of my question is none of what you just described has seemed to matter in terms of how Donald Trump has done electorally and with his voters.

Maybe in Congress, it's a different story.

But I think what you're saying, what you seem to be saying is that you think we're reaching a turning point that the public, the electorate, even in rural districts like yours that voted more Republican than any district in the state, do you think there's a turning point?

I think there I think there is a turning point for that.

This district has the second most amount of veterans in the state, second only to NY 21 because of Fort Drum, because we have Watertown, but not the post.

And this is something that we see a good bit about just kind of talking generally when I, when I tell my and I tell my story, the first thing they ask is, so what about the cuts to the VA and talking to fellow veterans?

And so we it's going to be interesting to see the way this plays out over the next.

Probably six months.

On whether we start to see a turn here when, you know, veterans are getting turned away from health care or it's getting delayed, or if we continue to have problems up there with the Veterans Administration and and with things within DoD in itself, it's like, okay, you know, now we're gonna have to be spending more money.

You know, some of these cuts are going to affect them, too.

You know, how has this happened in a broader space?

So their their space to move there that we may have not had before.

And I know not just for myself, I know that there are other people who are running other veterans who are going to be running, who are making this case.

They're saying, hey, you know, hey, look, here's how we're going to break through on this, because I think it's something we can, but it's it's been just kind of a general messaging issue to do that.

It that's the problem.

We're going to start to see that.

Yeah I think a lot more here in the next six probably about six months.

So tell me what kind of democratic heroes you have who are your favorite Democrats on the scene right now?

Some of my favorite Democrats on on the scene right now, you know, it's not really a Democrat.

I mean, I'm I've always been a fan of Bernie Sanders just simply because, you know, he's he's out there and he's telling he's telling the truth about the economic condition of America.

You know, it's he's going out into rural spaces and being welcomed with open arms in a lot of places.

And, you know, and I understand the divisions we have within the party and those particular things.

But when we're talking about health care, when we're talking about the cost of living in it and a living wage and economic stability, which is, I think, something that happened in the last election, we really didn't talk to that, to the level that we did, to the economic anxiety.

I like the way that that message comes over.

So that right now is, is, is kind of one of my heroes out there has has been for a long time on the other side, you know, coming from rural spaces, I'm a I'm a fan of Andy Beshear in Kentucky.

Understanding that background, you know, understanding being blue in red spaces.

It's it's something that governor of Kentucky, a Democrat Kentucky, of course, very famously Democratic.

No it's not I don't no it's not and I think, team fact, check me real quick on this.

I think I saw an Andy Beshear approval rating this weekend.

He's he's that like 68, 25 approve.

It's like a 40 plus point approval rating in and and his his father was the governor of Kentucky before that.

And I know when, President Biden stepped aside, he was one of the people on the shortlist.

They were looking at right to replace.

And on the short list for, VP as well.

And presidential contenders in 26 or 28 is exactly the third one I want to talk about.

As someone, as a candidate very similar to me, and that is Tim Walz, veteran.

Kemp's comes from rural America.

Kind of looks like your next door neighbor, you know, kind of that guy, the kind of that guy, almost like the old term used to, you call a plains populist back in the day.

So kind of amongst those three are kind of where I take my ideas.

Okay.

And so let me read you something that, the progressive writer Matthew Iglesias said last week, Iglesias is looking at the electorate and how Democrats can win in 2026.

And part of what he is describing in what I'm about to read, is it his view that when people talk about like, well, what do Democrats need to do?

What do they need to say?

He says, it depends on where you are, because if you're in a very rural district and you're trying to flip it, your approach has to be different.

So because somebody had pointed to, Rudolph Giuliani, there's a lot of talk about Mamdani in New York City.

There's a lot of talk about you all.

New York City is very left.

And Iglesias points out that, well, Rudy, Rudy Giuliani was a Republican.

Michael Bloomberg I mean, there's been a long history of Republicans winning in New York City.

But he says the following.

He says Giuliani, of course, was progressive on immigration and abortion and gay rights, which is how he could win as a Republican.

New York City Democrats should try the same strategy in the opposite direction to be viable in Ohio, Ohio, Iowa, Texas, Kansas, Florida and rural districts.

So what he's saying is on pocketbook issues, like you're talking about Bernie Sanders, you're where you need to be, he says.

On social issues, you need to get more conservative to reach people, whether it's immigration, abortion, gay rights, etc.

what do you make of that?

Well, it's again, there there aren't really cookie cutters for certain areas, you know, for I'll give you here, for example, for example, look at this district on immigration that this is a huge issue.

We have the Batavia Detention Center.

We also have the women's detention Center in Niagara County and Tom Homan is from this district.

He's from up in Jefferson County.

Immigration is starting to turn into a hot button issue here, but it's turning into an issue in a way that could turn toward us, because all of a sudden you have farmers are looking around, where's my workforce now?

Where are they?

They're gone, you know, or you have in in places not in the district but close, you know, roofing crews getting disappeared off the street for issues like that.

So you're right.

You have to tailor it in the pocketbook issues.

It's kind of like I talked about with with Bernie for other issues.

That's where you looked at somebody like Andy Beshear, what he's been able to do in places like Kentucky to where you have to you have to fit the puzzle pieces in.

So when you define someone in in one particular direction or the other, you have to take a look at it on a holistic sense.

Yeah.

No, I certainly understand.

And by the way, I'm not asking you as a candidate for Congress like what's going to work?

So what should I do?

I mean, like, you have to be you, I get it, I think what Iglesias is saying, the party should be picking candidates strategically based on the district makeup.

And, you know, I got an email from Charles saying, hey, if the door swings both ways, he's talking about Harry Bronson's assembly district and how it's set up.

And, no one is saying that gerrymandering only helps Democrats or only helps Republicans.

I mean, they're very good.

The parties are very good at working together to protect their own interests and setting up districts where they are very, very likely to have an electoral advantage.

Correct.

That's the only that's the only observation I'm making here.

But but kind of pursuing a little bit more your thoughts on.

So take immigration.

I take your point that it's not just a are you more right or are you more left?

It is a functionally what's going on with ice could very soon, especially in the Finger Lakes region that's going to have they're going to have apple orchards.

They're going to have grape harvest.

They're going to have major harvest issues.

And they you may see Cruz not there, and you're going to see pretty conservative areas affected in ways that you think will maybe move some people's opinions.

Yes.

It because again, it's we talk a lot about second third order effects.

So if that crew's not there within a business, you're you're your biggest cost center is labor.

So if I don't have the crews there, you know, to be able to pick the apples, pick the grapes and you know, to go milk the cattle, whatever it is to work that operation.

Now, I'm going to have to pay more and I'm going to pass that cost on to you.

Well, you take this on top of the fact of the cuts to things like snap, which is going to affect this district in a large way since this district has, you know, a childhood poverty problem.

Okay, maybe those items aren't going to be there.

They're going to cost a lot more, and it's going to start hitting people's pocketbooks.

So it's a second, third order effect where it might start as a social issue.

But then, you know, turning to an economic issue, I hear that.

Let me ask you in a different way, do you think the Biden administration did a poor job of securing the southern border?

I think it could have been done a lot better.

I and I think that's part of the problem that came to fruition last cycle is that, you know, it's like the economic issues, whatever that the reality was, the people didn't feel that that's what it was.

So we need to do, you know, by the way, there was a border bill that was out there, a bipartisan border bill with someone from your native Oklahoma party with with Senator James Lankford, who is not confused for being a liberal in any stretch of the imagined that the man who was a Baptist preacher.

Was part of the negotiation for that was killed by the Trump administration.

That's something that yeah, we talked about it some, but it wasn't put out there.

So is there some is there some things to blame on both sides?

Yes, absolutely.

And that was not something that we're going to shy away from.

Yes.

You know we have to secure our borders.

That's that we absolutely do.

However, it's how you're addressing the problem and the and the way it's being addressed right now is getting into is to say getting into overreach is a bit of a with the 3000 per day, quota that Steven, for deportation, for deportations that Stephen Miller is talking about, that that that's going beyond the pale.

I think even for people who are immigration hawks.

I've talked to a lot of Democrats since last November who feel like what the Trump administration, the Trump campaign, did really well was take certain cultural culture war, hot button issues, inflate them and drown the conversation.

Yes.

And for example, trans sports and trans issues and, and outsize those issues and, and make the campaign focus on them and that hurt the Democratic Party.

Do you agree with that?

I absolutely do, and it's part of a greater strategy of trying to divide the Democratic electorate.

You know, you seen, not this past cycle, but in 22, in some off year elections, as an anecdotal evidence in Michigan, you're around, the Dearborn area, large Muslim population, Republicans inflated trans issues, vote shares went down.

You know, we see the division within the Democratic Party between two Democratic voting bases, Jewish Americans and Muslim Americans, dividing over Gaza, inflating these issues, you know, with women's rights folks versus trans rights folks trying to divide a wedge to either siphon off votes or depress votes is kind of some of the things we've been seeing on a grander, broader scale across not just the district in, across the country.

So you ran for Congress in 2022, you're running for Congress in 2026.

How often?

Well, how many doors do you think you've knocked on?

How many, how many times?

How many households have you visited?

Well, thousands.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

And it's either for myself or other candidates I'll be knocking for and stuff like that to help out because, you know, it's not just winning up here at the top, but it's building a bench to where we have people who will run for, you know, Assembly, Senate, you know, starting off at that level, which is something that Republicans have done for a very long time in these spaces, is they've built a bench.

They've done really well.

They've done really well at it.

Yeah.

So if one of us were to win, there's gonna be a bench of probably 20 Republicans.

They'll want to come after you, you know that.

And it'll just keep coming.

So we have to we have to buttress that back by rebuilding our own spaces out here.

So in all the thousands of doors you've knocked, I campaigning for Congress.

How many times have people asked you about, trans athletes and trans sports issues?

Unless they were part of that community and wanting to ensure that they're protected?

Hardly any.

I would say most people come out.

No, it's more like you know, hey, you're a veteran.

Hey, what's your thoughts on whatever's going on in whatever part of the world?

How many times people ask about Medicaid?

A lot, a lot.

And that's where we get back to this.

Their hospitals, their hospitals.

You know, my team gave me the information on that with this.

And I'm using air quotes for people that see this big, beautiful bill right now that there are five hospitals in the district that could potentially close, you know, and, and, or miscount and I know there's Lockport, there's Alex Bay, there's Watertown, there's, Newark and I believe one in Oswego that would close you that will call that what that would look, could close, could closes the better.

I don't think it's imminent.

I mean, I certainly understand the pressures.

Yeah, it's it because it's the amount of Medicaid reimbursements that they get.

Okay.

And they, elasticity there is going to put out.

But this way it's going to put them in jeopardy at that particular point.

That will then again, that is compounded again.

Like if you close veteran centers, now you're going to have people that are going to also be needing that health care that's going to compound one on top of the other.

And that's again where it's going to where these issues are going to spread.

Because again, one of the things that President Trump campaign won on was I'm not going to cut Medicare, Medicaid.

He made it as a point of making a differentiation when he and Ron DeSantis back in the Republican primaries.

He wants to cut it.

I'll protect it now.

He didn't.

It's kind of like the Foreign Wars thing.

They said one thing did another.

And people are like waking up to this now and going, you know, or hey, I'm going to protect veterans benefits.

But now the look, that's why you believe the door is open to winning this?

I absolutely do, even with the amounts and the deficit that I lost by before, there's going to be a sea change that's out there within the direct within this.

And I'll give a couple cases where we see this anecdotally where Republicans believe they're in trouble.

In Wisconsin, you had Congressman Van Orden MAGA J and their January 6th petition, the Democratic governor of Wisconsin for relief in his rural area.

He knew it was bad.

You also had, there is some, some of those sent to me by a friend of mine back in Oklahoma where they're they're Republican state legislators.

They're talking to the mayor of Tulsa, who's a Democrat.

Can you help us out?

So we're seeing we're seeing Republicans hitting the panic button going, wait a minute here.

You know, we're we're we're in some trouble because you're, you're you're when, you know, when Medicare payments, by the way, don't effect until after the next midterms.

And this is where we as Democrats have to be vocal and say it's coming.

Now, don't do not be fooled by this.

You know, it's the same thing happened with the with the Trump tax bill.

You know, back in 2018, be fooled.

Republicans and Democrats love to schedule changes to benefits after elections.

And it's not just Republicans who do it, but, but I take the point that it's going to be a harder sell if certain benefit changes are going to happen after November 20th 22nd.

I'm late for my only break of the hour.

Kathy, in Monroe County, we're going to take your phone call after this break.

I've got a couple of emails to read.

Stephen Holden is running for Congress.

He ran in 2022, and he's running against Claudia Tenney, the Republican incumbent, who is also invited on this program.

Really?

Any day that we can that she wants to make it work, we will find a way to make it work.

All members of Congress are invited.

And so we're talking to Stephen Holden about what Democrats have to do to reach voters in districts where they lost in 2022, 2024.

What changes next year?

We'll take that break.

We'll come back, take your phone calls and emails next.

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This is connections.

I'm Evan Dawson.

If my guess this our wins next November not this November 2026.

In the midterms it will be a national story.

Stephen Holden's win in 2026 would be heralded across the country, as Democrat flips the biggest Republican district from just four years ago.

It would be a huge story, and when you have a tens of thousands of voter roll a registration disadvantage, it's a big task.

But Stephen is explaining why the Democratic Party and why he thinks things are ripe for a change this time around, and so he is giving it a second shot, especially considering what the big book with what the big Beautiful Bill is doing and what what voters are saying to him.

And let's take some feedback from listeners.

This is Kathy in Monroe County.

Hey, Kathy, go ahead.

Kathy, are you there?

I've got her in.

Hey, maybe she's on mute.

Let's do this.

I'm going to put Kathy back on hold, and, we'll get Jack and Grace.

Hey, Kathy.

Maybe we talk to our staff.

We'll get Kathy there, and let's get Jack next in grease.

Hey, Jack.

Go ahead.

Go.

Hi, Evan.

Thanks.

Yeah, I apologize, I don't remember the name of the, fellow that's running.

Even holding.

You don't read Stephen.

Stephen.

Okay.

You don't you wouldn't.

You wouldn't represent my district.

I live in a town of greased.

No, no, that's generally right.

A question by question has more to do with the district.

The district that you're looking to win over.

You know, the best, as I understand it, is it is extremely rural driven.

Many of the people that I know that I've run into and had discussions with tend to be extremely conservative, ideologically driven in a lot of cases, strong relate, but maybe a a very strong anti-gay strain against gay marriage, much, much to do with the label.

A lot of Democrats at the national level or break seemed to label democratic socialists.

The term socialists will immediately run to and say, that's handsome.

And how do you I mean, I get it, you know, your points are well taken.

On, on and I think the country's extremely wrong in terms of isolation.

You know, those are winning arguments in my book.

But, I got to be honest with you, in a district that you're looking at, I mean, there's an awful lot of Trump acts that are waving around him, and, I don't even have to listen to you.

I'm curious what what you're really hearing on the ground is that you try and win over.

Thank you.

Jack.

Go ahead.

Stephen.

So, thanks you that Jack, thank you for that question.

And that's something we get a lot.

So it's a few things.

One, we really tap into my personal background.

I come from rural America.

Most of my family back in Oklahoma is MAGA.

You know, I was raised in an evangelical household in Oklahoma.

I understand where they're coming from.

So we have to tailor our message.

You grew up in a dairy farm?

Yes, I did, milking cows, actually.

Milking cows?

Yes.

Okay.

I was yeah, I was in the FFA in the H as well.

Okay.

For people that don't know what that is, that's the future farmers of America.

Indeed.

And I was an officer in that but I I've grown up in these spaces.

I know last time on Evan we talked about, you know, living in red spaces and just like, you know, when people see me or people talk to me, they look to me and go, you're a Democrat.

You look like you're off the set of Yellowstone.

Okay?

So you're so you leave with your background.

But then what do you say when someone says, okay, well, my values are conservative.

Where do we align?

Well, and then I start talking about my personal experiences and personal stories.

I start talking about, you know, being raised around the dinner table in rural America, going going to church on Sunday mornings, you know, talking about how even if we disagree, faith is something that's very important to me.

You know, I, I very strongly believe in particular faith.

Matthew 25 of taking care of the least of these.

And whereas we might disagree in those particular things, at the end of the day, we want a better community.

We want our better lives for our children and our grandchildren.

We want them to come back home and we really lead with that.

There's there are some things that you're never going to be able to reach people on just because of a cultural divide.

But if you lead with the fact that I understand where you're coming from, you know, I'm not going to sit and denigrate you for your views.

I understand why you have those views.

I have friends, I have family that have those views.

But you know what?

At the end of the day, I want to make your lives better.

And that's really where we come from.

Jack is saying he thinks in districts like yours, in Mamdani, the Mamdani is of the world really wouldn't play.

I mean, how do you, are you a Mamdani Democrat, or are you?

So here's the thing.

I like the economic policies.

I you know, when we talk about affordable housing, when we talk about health care, when we talking about making life more affordable for people, regardless if that's Zaun.

My name is positioning.

Those sorts of things that sell can sell anywhere.

Some of the other things that are said, you know, we have to take a look at them.

I mean, especially here versus the city.

But if we're again, it kind of goes back to Bernie on those, on those sorts of things.

You know, we're talking about securing health care.

We're talking about livable wages.

We're talking about talking unions that are there because, there are many places in this district where you have union membership, but they vote Republican.

And why does that happen?

And some of them over and other social issues, particularly guns, you know, whether it's gay and trans rights, that's like, okay, I, I support my union, but I don't support this.

And that's kind of where we go with it.

Let me get back to your fight to see the phone continuing to ring for Stephen Holden.

So let me get back to your phone calls.

And this is Jamie in Ontario County.

Hey, Jamie, go ahead.

Hi, Steve.

I just had a quick question for you.

I'm raising an eight year old daughter out here in Ontario County.

And she's she's probably going to lose her Medicaid health insurance, which my representative was on TV dancing about it after passing this bill.

But my main question for you is Representative Claudia Tenney has refused to hold the town hall for her constituents.

Her last one was in April of 2023.

I have been very active in the district, demanding that my representative hold a town hall.

I've organized many protests, and I'm trying to actually organize a coalition to go to Washington, D.C., because she refuses to meet with her constituents.

Will you commit to holding regular town halls for your constituents so you can hear our voices and accurately represent us in Washington, D.C.?

Thank you Jamie.

Go ahead.

Steve.

Absolutely, 100%.

And it doesn't matter where they are because, you know, and I've been to some of these town halls where, in lieu of Congresswoman Tenney, they have a cardboard cutout of her standing there while we're talking about, you know, various issues, particularly while I've been here recently, health care.

Absolutely.

100%.

If you're not willing to get out there and actually talk to the people you represent, even if they disagree with you, you have to be able and be present in the district.

You have to have skin in the game.

No matter no matter where that is here in the district, that's a yes.

You will do absolutely 100%.

Thank you.

Jamie, Joe wants to know where you are on nuclear energy.

So I do support nuclear energy.

And that's a big thing here because over in Oswego County, we do have, nuclear power plants.

I but it needs to be safe and 100% should we do new nuclear projects?

I, I'm for more clean energy.

For more green energy projects to be.

You prefer solar and wind?

I prefer solar and wind over that.

But I also do understand the nuclear issue over in Oswego County.

Okay, yeah.

So you don't want to shut down what's going on?

I do not want to shut down what's going on?

But, when I ran last time, I actually sat down with a nuclear expert from over in Oswego County.

You talked about that issues, and it sure to me.

And I spoke to other environmental folks within the district.

They were good with that.

So that's I had to get a temperature on the ground for that one.

Preston writes in to say he wants to put in a vote for Elissa Slotkin, the senator from Michigan.

Is that one of the best communicators in the Democratic Party right now?

I don't know if you know Senator Slotkin.

I know she also spent a good amount of time in DoD.

Okay.

Yeah, exactly.

Yes.

So Preston wants us to be thinking about Slotkin.

Two different johns.

I'll take an email and then a phone call.

John emails to say, Evan, you you had the candidate talking about trans issues, and then you didn't ask the question.

Can you ask if the candidate supports, trans girls and women playing in girls sports?

That's from John.

Okay.

So so here.

So here's the point.

So here's the point on that.

I, I support the idea that it has to be decided at the local level.

So, within the, for example, within the NCAA, they require a period of time with hormone retreat, hormone, replacement and treatment before they become eligible to be able to do that.

So there.

So there isn't an advantage.

However, we do not need to be, exclusionary when it comes to that, but we have to be smart about it.

It's.

So there's going to have to be some things done, but completely eliminating people from doing that is with saying, no, you can never do it.

It's not something that I would support, but it sounds like, tell me if I'm wrong.

You're saying that a trans boy or a trans man who has not had any sort of, medical intervention.

You'd be hesitant to, to them playing just in a girl sport.

Yeah.

I would be hesitant to that.

Yeah.

Because I don't want there to be a disadvantage.

But I understand the therapy that when you start to go through the hormone replacement process, which again which is what the NCAA does.

So then maybe that change, it's good that that would change things right together.

Okay.

Right there.

All right.

Different John I think this is John in Rochester.

Hi, John.

Go ahead.

Hi.

If this is a patient to concern, organs is beautiful.

So, we have a disgusting abomination that is can be called, one or do we build.

Okay.

So, so John wants to argue for it to be the big ugly bill.

I don't that will be up to each individual.

I think Stephen is betting that more people will see it that way.

Yes.

Yes.

There that yeah.

We you know we tend to call it ugly within our circles here, not just within our campaign, but within our support base and everything.

We call it the big ugly Bill.

John, YouTube, thank you, Stephen, for stepping up and running.

Team man on YouTube met Stephen at a five and 20 Alliance event.

Yes.

Says great meet up and I would encourage, Stephen, more people meet more people more often, so no.

Yeah.

Yes.

And we absolutely plan on it.

We are we're going to be everywhere in the district.

All 14, all 14 counties.

You know, it's kind of managing time.

It's just being able to get to all places.

But we absolutely are.

We've been to all 14 and we looked forward to coming back again.

This is Darryl next on the phone.

Hey Daryl.

Go ahead.

Do we have Daryl?

Line four.

Hey, Daryl.

Hey, Daryl.

I can hear something, okay?

I mean, we've had some issues.

If you're on mute, trying not to get on mute here.

Greg in San Diego is next.

Hey, Greg.

Go ahead.

Hi.

We have to wait till the chickens come home to roost.

Six months from now, a year from now, a whole lot of people are going to be affected by the cuts to Medicaid.

Medicare.

Snap.

We already people are leaving universities because they feel they don't have the right to freedom of speech.

The border is an issue that will get even more difficult, to get the troubles in Texas.

This floods seem like is not able to respond.

And because of the cuts earlier this year, the National Weather Service was not able to forecast that storm in time to save lives.

But there is a mountain of issues that Democrats I mean, they could put all 24 in the hat, pick any one of them out.

Finally, today in Washington DC, oh, we lost a great I lost Greg for a second.

Well I'm sorry.

Go ahead Greg.

Yep.

That was my fault.

Go ahead.

Last thing today in Washington DC, Netanyahu and Trump are talking what is going to happen regarding the war.

There's so those issues and many more have yet to be determined and how they will affect people in this country and how much will they suffer.

Thank you.

Greg, thank you for the phone call.

And this leads to our last 90s.

So that's a good lead in to give, Stephen Holden some time for some final thoughts here.

I mean, if we had Claudia Tenney on this program, the Republican incumbent, which she has invited any time, I suspect she would say you're overblowing the big, beautiful Bill's effects.

It is not going to take that many people off Medicaid.

It is not going to hurt that many people's food stamps, that this is you're just trying to create the shadow that's in the dark that people are scared of.

And, and that you're hyping it up for electoral advantage.

So Greg is saying, just just wait and see and people will will feel it.

Where are you?

And final thoughts from you?

So, Evan, that gets back to what I was talking about earlier, about the second order or third order effects, and let's see where things are in that six, about a six month amount of time that Greg is talking about, because you're going to start to see the compounding of the problems.

You know, again, you know, we have the hospitals, we have, you know, a few hospitals that could be in jeopardy.

Compound the the veteran cuts on top of that, compounding the immigration and what that's going to do for food production within the district and around the country.

Compounding that, again with the snap cuts, you know, we're going to start to see things one, building off of the other.

And with national security.

Yeah.

What's going to happen in the Middle East.

You know some you sometimes when you open Pandora's box, it's hard to put it back in, especially in that part of the world.

As someone who's been on three sides of Iran from three different areas, so it may not be here right at the moment.

I know, I know, the base is really and energized about it, but we'll see where this is going here in in a few months.

Stephen Holden is, running for Congress in New York, district number 24.

It starts in the west, to the north of Buffalo, up against the lake.

It jumped, but down around Monroe County, through the Finger Lakes, and then north all the way up to the Thousand Islands.

It's a huge district.

And, he's got a big voter registration disadvantage, but he's giving it another shot.

His opponent, Claudia Tenney, is going to be invited on this program.

And I appreciate your time.

Thank you for making the time for this program.

Thank you very much, Evan.

It's always a pleasure.

And he is joining us in studio.

It's a huge district.

I have no idea how we even got here.

We've got more connections coming up here.

And especially since today's my wife's birthday.

Oh, there you go.

Happy birthday.

More connections coming up.

Thank you.

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