>> From WXXI News.

This is Connections.

I'm Evan Dawson.

Our connection this hour was made in the local emergency department.

There are more children and teens showing up in the Ed after incidents of self-harm.

That doesn't necessarily mean attempted suicide, although self-harm can lead in that direction.

My colleague Noelle Evans recently covered a new.

Over increasing rates of self-harm and thoughts of suicide among young people in the Finger Lakes region, and calling for school based responses to prevent further harm.

Common Ground Health's report points to a surge of emergency department visits for self-harm among children and teens ages 6 to 17.

Of the 1903 youth in the Finger Lakes region who sought care for self-harm, 71% of them returned to the Ed at least one more time that same year for additional behavioral health treatment, the report states.

The U.S.

Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration defined.

In which a person hurts their own body as a means of coping with emotions like loneliness, anger, or hopelessness.

The agency noted that it's typically not intended as a means of dying by suicide, but if left untreated, people who self-harm have a higher risk of attempting suicide, and Noel's reporting includes this blunt assessment from Common Ground co-CEO Wade Norwood.

Right now, the children are not well.

So what can we do about this?

And what should we know?

Our guest this hour include off the top of the hour.

Joining me, Noelle E.C.

Evans, education reporter and producer for WXXI News.

Thank you for this reporting and thanks for popping into Connections here.

Thanks, Evan.

And around the table, welcome to Elizabeth Devaney, director of the Whole Child Connection at the Children's Institute.

Thank you for being here.

>> Thanks for having me.

>> Tell us a little bit about what you do and what the institute does.

>> so my team at the Whole Child Connection works with a number of school districts, many around Monroe County, on.

Thinking about restorative communities and ways to to build connection in schools.

>> Good to have you across the table, doctor.

Joseph D. Fantigrossi is director of the Community Schools Coalition in Monroe County and coordinator of regional community schools at Monroe two Orleans Boces.

Welcome.

Thanks for being here.

>> Thank you, Evan.

>> And great to have Dr.

Holly Sienkiewicz.

Holly is director of research at Common Ground Health.

Thank you for being here as well.

>> Thank you.

Happy to be here.

>> In a few minutes.

We're going to welcome Kelvin Holloway, a senior recreation assistant with the City of Rochester, talking about his experience.

But First Noel, what put this report on the radar for you?

>> well, a couple of things.

I mean, of course getting the notice from Common Ground Health that.

And also, I mean, I'd been doing some reporting on this, I mean, 2023, 2024 is where some of the statistics are coming from here.

I've been doing reporting around youth mental health at that time and looking at different ways that folks were addressing it.

And one of the things that stood out, even in my conversation with Wade Norwood, is that part of it in terms of helping, I mean, you can read the reporting for sure, but some of the stuff I want to touch on real quick is it's Ways to Help is also about breaking up some of the chronic stressors, whether that's environmental.

Or others.

And, you know, some of those interpersonal relationships to something that Wade said that stood out to me is and I know we're talking about something very heavy here, but play being a way to help disrupt whether that's about, you know, helping to beautify spaces or, you know, integrating into nature or integrating play into discipline rather than removing a student for behaviors which can reinforce social isolation, which can contribute to behaviors like this.

finding other ways to go about it, because belonging, he said, was is a huge piece of this, which is why the recommendations include things like community schools and other things.

>> I thought there was a quote from Wade Norwood in your reporting that was really interesting in that.

That kids have to hear from adults that they're, quote, not crazy, that their experiences are valid, that the world that they see as sort of turned upside down.

That's a valid way to feel.

Sure.

And that simply telling kids they're crazy or they're in there.

invalidating their their feelings.

>> Yes.

Because part of, you know, in the reading that I've done, I mean, there's so much literature on this is self-harm can be very much about suppressing emotions rather than finding an outlet for them, which is why, for instance, play came up for when I was talking to Wade.

That's a that's a way to find a creative outlet.

It's a way to build relationships.

It's a way to work through conflicts.

But with self-harm, it's oftentimes about finding some kind of outlet, some kind of way to cope, even if it's not necessarily the healthiest way to go about it.

And so that validation aspect of it is also huge.

So for instance, if you know, some of what I was reading is if a teacher becomes aware or, you know, an adult becomes aware that this is something going on, rather than approaching it with disgust or, you know, stigma, like, not necessarily leaning into it so much as wanting to understand why and why it's helpful for this individual in particular, because not everybody has their own stories.

Yes, exactly.

>> Yeah.

Yeah.

And and your reporting also indicates that there is a this is not the same issue across the board, sort of categorically.

Can you talk a little bit about that?

>> Sure.

So we were seeing I mean common ground health in the report points out that, you know, for students who identify as LGBTQ for students who are black and Latino, Latinx, Latina, the the rates are higher and some of what I think, too, is that feeling of whether I have the right to exist as I am and if so, where.

And there's a lot of rhetoric around, especially for trans youth, that question, for instance.

so that stood out to me, and that's where my mind went, having like struggled with this as a when I was younger, for instance.

>> Okay.

And before we let you go here obviously there's not one single prescriptive solution.

If that was the case, we probably would be in a very different place right away.

We've been talking about mental health for, I think, the last decade, more in this country than we ever have.

And so.

>> In a respectful way, too.

>> I hope so, yeah.

>> I mean, the shift to from, you know, stigma calling psychologist or psychiatrist shrinks, you know, there's a shift from stigma towards acceptance, more so than, you know, for instance, in the 90s when I was.

>> Yeah, and I had this I had this naive idea years ago when a friend of mine said that he and his wife were going to therapy, and another friend in the conversation was like, oh, my gosh, there's something wrong.

And he said, well, do you only brush your teeth when you get a cavity?

You know, he said, like and I thought, oh, my gosh, we're going to talk about mental health so much differently now.

Like that's such a healthier way to think about this.

I appreciated that so much.

And yet, even though I think the conversation is more respectful, it's more encompassing, it's more interested.

we see mental health getting worse, which might just be a reflection of the world sort of being a little more chaotic.

But it feels like some of these problems kind of get intractable.

I don't know how you see it.

>> I mean, social media.

>> Oh, yeah.

Thank you.

for saying.

>> That.

I just leave it there.

But, I mean, that, like, exposure to violence, like, even if it's just, like, not not to say just, but like, vicarious trauma of witnessing something that's happening in another part of the world.

community violence, you know, struggles at home, you know, not necessarily like it's interesting when it comes to like, one of the recommendations being social emotional learning, which people have also pushed back on as to like, what does that mean?

But if you're teaching kids, youth, adults, even how to cope with difficult emotions, how to handle conflict when it comes up that I see as a way forward in terms of like navigating mental health because it is a matter of maintenance too.

>> I'm really glad you brought up social media.

I'm not going to spend the whole hour going like it's just your phones.

It's I mean, like, it's a lot of things, right?

>> There's a lot of things.

>> But I've snarkily called it anti-social media.

But recently I heard someone refer to it as not as social media, but as algorithmic media.

In other words, these companies, these tech companies figure out how to sort of get your attention, how to exploit your attention, how to keep you coming back, how to make you upset, which sometimes triggers more triggers, more engagement, even if you're upset.

And so they're incentivized to do those things to us.

>> For sure.

>> And we are sort of allowing that to happen by spending 6 or 8 or ten hours a day on algorithmic media.

Right.

>> And it's challenging when your brain is still developing to.

>> It's hard enough for all of us, right?

I mean, like, this is we're going to talk a lot about kids in a moment here with all of our guests.

But it's that's all of us, I think.

And I was listening to an author recently in his podcast who said he spent years working through what happens when when Twitter decides to mob him and how down he would get when people would attack him or say something terrible about him.

And about two years ago, he left all social media.

And now, once in a while, his editor will be like, yeah, somebody said something like, Elon Musk said something bad about you and all of us.

And he's like, okay, fine.

And he said the lesson he wished he could learn in his young adulthood or for kids now or for everybody, is that if you actually get off that stuff, you can exist in the physical world and that stuff may be happening, but you're not even really aware of it, and it actually doesn't affect you all that much.

It doesn't really affect you at all.

You think that, like, you have to be in the conversation or someone might be wrong?

>> I kind of also feel that it's so important to feel that sense of connectedness with your peers, and if they're there, it's, you.

>> Know, 100%.

So so that's why it's not easy, because that's where a lot of peers are, and that's how they communicate in a lot of ways.

So you can't just say, well, unplug.

But if you can, it may help for sure.

>> but yeah, I, I mean recreation, getting outside, you know, being away from the phone I'm sure can help in immense ways.

but I as much as I'm here, I really want to hear from your guests as well.

>> So I'm going to let.

>> Noelle go for a bit.

Yeah.

>> Obviously, these are complex issues that we're going to dig into right now.

Noelle Evans great reporting for WXXI.

We'll talk to you soon.

Thank you.

Thank you very much.

And Noelle Seed is going to be filled now by Calvin Holloway.

And Calvin is a senior recreation assistant with the city of Rochester.

And Calvin's going to slide in and is here to really explain.

Well, Calvin's own experience lately.

So there you go.

That chair.

How you doing there, Calvin?

Welcome.

Thank you for being with us as well.

Here.

Thanks for making time.

It's great having me.

so there's a lot here.

And I'm going to start with Dr.

Sinkiewicz, who's the director of research at Commonground health, just to make sure we're contextualizing some of the data in the right ways here.

What do you see in this data?

>> Yeah.

Well, as you said in the intro, self-harm is now the leading behavioral health related reason for youth visiting the emergency department.

so that in and of itself says a lot.

>> It's remarkable.

>> And it's a lagging indicator that means youth have already done something to commit harm to their own bodies.

So, you know, if you're looking at different surveys, for instance, the Youth Risk Behavior Survey, that the county public health department puts out, you know, 1 in 10 have reported seriously contemplating suicide.

1 in 10 of our youth that completed that survey, that's astronomical.

1 in 4 have been so sad or helpless that they have stopped doing their usual activities, while 1 in 3 have trouble concentrating due to emotional and mental health issues.

So these numbers are just pervasive.

It's epidemic throughout our community and something that needs to be paid attention to.

>> And as Noel mentioned there are some disparities in the numbers are rough everywhere, but they're really rough in communities of color.

And the LGBTQ community.

Right?

>> Yep.

And female students as.

>> Well.

And female students as well.

again, not any one cause or indicator.

But does something stand out to you as a a problem that has to be addressed immediately?

>> Oh, there's so much and we've at Common Ground have a portfolio of work on this subject.

So, you know, social media, phone use, tech use is absolutely a part of that.

But a lot of this, not just stemming from COVID, but exacerbated during COVID and the rates are not going down, they're only increasing.

So some of the isolation that youth felt during that time, the stresses that families felt during that time those effects haven't gone away.

They haven't been addressed, they haven't been dealt with.

>> Where are we going in that direction anyway?

And without the pandemic, would we be here, or did the pandemic really have a lasting impact that might not have been felt otherwise?

>> It was already trending upward, but the pandemic was a tipping point that that really escalated it.

So I would say we'd already be moving in that direction.

But it's been escalated since.

>> And the, the obviously the big alarm bell is five years later.

It's not better or it's not at least pre-pandemic levels that we've seen kind of a a hardening of some of those effects.

And you would hope that with time that that could be mitigated.

>> Exactly.

And typically this has been an issue that we've seen really more with teenagers.

But children as young as six are now in this as well.

So it's young children as well.

>> Not there are cases of self-harm as young as what age.

>> Oh I'm sure it goes below six, but.

>> Six in this study it's six, six years old.

>> There have been.

Yes, we have seen eight year olds taking their own lives.

>> Yeah.

It's just I mean, it's unbelievable.

Okay.

I mean, that's why Wade Norwood said the kids are not.

All right.

So let's ask Dr.

Fantegrossi for some first reactions to this data and this story here.

>> I think there's a couple of interesting points to really focus on when we're talking about this study.

one is there has been a response to those needs.

It is not a completely unresponded to issue.

So Dr.

Sinkiewicz mentioned the yrbs, the Youth Risk Behavior survey that has a 30 year history in Monroe County.

So secondary school students in Monroe County have been taking that survey for 30 plus years now.

so we've been tracking data for a long time.

I think schools are doing their best to address the needs that are there, but it takes a really purposeful effort to do so.

and one of the strategies that schools are using to respond to such needs is the community schools effort.

And so our coalition of not only schools, but of community providers, institutes of higher ed governmental departments really comes together around the premise of it's not good enough to have what my colleague calls random acts of programing, just get as many programs as possible and throw them against the wall and see what sticks.

But we have to be really intentional and purposeful about how we're using the resources that we have in order to respond to the data that was cited.

>> Using them in schools.

>> Correct.

>> Okay.

And we're going to get into that more in just a moment here.

Elizabeth Devaney, what stands out to you from some of this data and reporting?

>> you know, obviously it's really upsetting data.

And I think the growing kind of comfort in talking about mental health has allowed it to be a conversation that we have and where we can really raise up the importance of it.

So I think, you know, there's more conversation about some of these challenges that teens have always had, which I think is great.

I'm glad that that's happening.

One of the things I wanted to talk about that I think, you know, as we get into this conversation about social media and phones and technology, I think there's a lot of villainizing of social media.

but to me, actually the biggest problem with technology is that it's really changing the way young people are communicating and sort of the development of social skills.

So if you think about, you know, if the majority of your interactions are through text or gaming, where there's not in-person sort of face to face interaction, where you're sort of communicating.

I mean, if you think about how many times a text you've written has gone, you know, misinterpreted because of tone can't come through when there's no facial expressions, when you know, that kind of thing.

So there's just a whole different way of communicating now that I think we're not addressing how that's changed.

Social skill development in schools.

And I feel like there's a place in schools for that to happen where we can really be focusing on some of those communication skills, relationship skills, communication, team building, decision making, things that were I think young people are losing through because they're communicating and living in these virtual worlds, which is a really different.

And so it's actually having an impact on brain chemistry and the way our, you know, their brains are developing is different than, you know, the adults who didn't grow up with social media, with technology.

so social media is for sure, you know, all the things.

But my biggest concern is around how it's changed the way kids and young adults are interacting.

And I think that's one of the biggest challenges because it's affecting sort of that, you know, this loneliness epidemic, this sort of feelings of isolation and just ability to communicate.

So that's something I think schools can really play a role in.

>> I mean, I've been the adult who gets frustrated when younger people aren't able to make eye contact.

you know, I feel that frustration at times, but I want to give some grace here because what you're describing is real.

I mean, especially with the pandemic.

But in general, when you're growing up in this digital age, a lot of your communication is not in person.

It is a set of skills that does matter.

And when you do get isolated and you think you're in community, but you know you're not really with people, it can manifest in a lot of different ways and probably communication.

Problem is, a is a big part of this, although I'm sure Elizabeth and maybe the whole panel can weigh in on this.

Listeners are wondering, well, is this going to get better with these bell to bell bands?

Like, doesn't doesn't that help in schools?

How do you feel about that?

>> I mean, I think I was sort of resistant to the idea of at first.

it's interesting.

>> Why was that?

>> Well, because I think it it's sort of saying it's a, it's the adult response to a kid problem of just take it away.

I don't like it, I hate it, I want it out of their hands.

And it's not to your point.

It's a it's something that's not going away.

We have to figure out how to teach kids and young adults to manage this technology, because they're going to have it forever.

And this is a new way of communicating and interacting.

So just trying to remove the problem doesn't doesn't address it, but it's putting a bandaid on.

>> A few months in.

How do you feel now.

>> Well, so I think it does make a difference.

I mean it is nice.

I don't know, my kids tell me it's not making a huge difference in school.

I think it probably depends on the school.

you know, I think there is probably some benefit, but I think it's kind of pushing the problem onto the parents who then have to manage this sort of need to then get on the devices instantly as soon as they get home and be on it until they go to bed, because now they can't be on it during the day.

So I think it's maybe pushing the problem to a different part of the day, you know?

But it does mean that schools there is a chunk of time where kids are off their devices, which I do think is a good thing.

and just, you know, I've talked I think we need to talk more to young people about this because, you know, I've had some conversations with my kids about this.

And one thing my daughter said that just knocked me on my feet when I was trying to share some of the challenges and all the, you know, data about social media use, she said.

This is really not helpful, mom, because all I hear is about how my kids my age have mental health problems and are falling apart, and it's because of this device in my hands that I can't do anything about.

I cannot get rid of this.

It's my like my whole world.

And so you're telling me.

>> Why can't you get rid of it?

>> Because it's it's how they communicate with their friends.

It's how they get information from their coaches.

It's how they, you know, they have to do schoolwork on it.

They have to, you know, it's like everything it's it's their music.

It's their, you know, so it's not just about social media.

It's it's you use it for everything.

Think about the way you use your own phone.

It's really a tool.

And so then it's think about taking it away.

You would how would you do your email.

How would you listen to Spotify.

How would you where would you use for an alarm clock?

I mean, yes, obviously we can go back to where we were 20 years ago, but we're not going to do that.

So I think it's more about teaching them the skills to use technology.

>> Okay.

And just briefly, doctor Fantegrossi the bell to bell bands.

What did you think?

>> Yeah, I'm, I'm with Elizabeth.

When it was first announced, I thought, okay, they've looked at the data, they saw that social media was having a negative impact.

And I see where it's coming from.

I'm not sure if it works.

What I'll tell you will be interesting is we give the Youth Risk Behavior survey every other year.

And so the last time it was given was in 23, early 24.

It's now being given again.

So I'll be curious if any of that data changes in the short time that there's been bell to Bell ban to see if we're making moves in the right direction because of and if we do see some movement, then maybe our initial take is wrong.

And maybe this is an important move for our young people.

>> Okay.

Dr.

Sinkewitz, what do you think.?

>> My kids are still young, so I would say that generally, I'm.

I'm in favor of it.

I'm in favor of it for teachers, just that they don't have to compete as much with the devices in students hands.

and I think time away from tech is a good thing.

That being said, there are still a lot of supportive benefits of it, and ultimately, you know, we have to figure out a way to to moderate and to live with technology.

And I think there's a lot of strategies out there that that can work, that can help youth manage their devices in a bit healthier ways.

>> So coming up here in our second half hour, we'll talk more about what schools are doing, what schools can do, the roles of teachers, how we move toward prevention and not just sort of mitigation.

There's a lot that we're going to kind of continue to work through as we talk about this report from Common Ground, I want to get Calvin's story.

Calvin is Calvin Holloway is a senior recreation assistant with the city of Rochester.

And back in pandemic times, you were still in high school?

Yeah.

Terrible time for anything for ever.

There's no good time for a pandemic, as we found out.

Yeah.

what do you remember most about?

You were, what, 17 years old when?

When the pandemic hit?

>> Yeah, about 17.

18.

>> What do you remember most?

>> isolation.

>> And.

Yeah, just not being able to do anything.

Like being stuck in the house.

not really having an outlet to express emotions or to express thoughts.

to express just everyday life.

it was.

Yeah, my biggest memory of that is just like isolation.

and I lost somebody that was, like, very close to me.

So the whole 2020 is just kind of like, for me, it's the worst year of my life experience.

>> How are you doing now?

>> just taking it day by day.

doing the best I can.

actually getting out, expressing myself, working with youth, being a youth mentor.

pouring back into the youth and giving them the keys and resources that I wish I had when I was their age.

>> Have you had moments where you have felt enough isolation or pressure, just sort of mental health low that you've thought about suicide, you've thought about self-harm?

>> Yes.

I actually had an episode like that recently.

so it was about, I think it was either last month or.

Yeah, it was last month.

life just got heavy.

And I am a person who.

And I think Noel talked about it before, like when you allow things to build up and you don't express what's going on and you don't talk about what's going on and nobody's aware you let it build up until the cap is off the bottom, and then it comes out on the wrong people, places and things.

but nobody knows because you haven't really talked about it.

>> Can I say something that's gonna.

At the risk of sounding patronizing, I don't mean to sound patronizing, but you're 22.

Yeah, just what you said there shows a ton of self-awareness and a lot of wisdom.

you good with the mic?

>> I don't think it's on.

>> Oh, no.

It's on.

I think we got you.

I can, I can.

>> Hear you.

Sorry.

>> I got you.

I'll let you know.

no, I think there's a ton of wisdom there.

Just understanding the importance of what what can happen when there is that build up and trying to find a release valve before it gets to a certain point.

So when you say you're taking it day by day, now, how do you try to not let things get to that point where the cap is going to blow?

>> I think over the course of 2020, up until now I really dive deep into therapy after 2020.

I also dive deep into, like, learning myself.

so in 2020, yeah, there was that isolation, but there was also time to get to know self.

there was also time to get to know my triggers.

There was also time to understand the way I responded to my triggers before, and the way I can respond to them now.

After doing the healing process.

is also just recognizing, like, I'm not the only person that's dealing with life.

yeah.

Everybody is dealing with life.

Adults, youth, elderly, everybody.

so I can't I can't be negative to another person because I don't know what they're going through.

>> Everybody's got something right.

>> Yeah.

So you gotta have empathy.

because I would want somebody to have empathy for me because I'm going through stuff.

So I gotta have the same perspective for someone else.

>> What is an example of something that doesn't work?

We're talking about what what might work, what schools can do, what communities can do.

But is there something that you think commonly gets tried in the way of mental health is just not effective?

>> Yeah, probably.

Like taking away the phones and it's just like or the compare and contrast to when adults were youth and the youth that are youth now.

Yeah.

it's just like it's different times.

So we can't compare and contrast something that is drastically different.

yeah.

I think that's, that's the biggest thing that stands out to me.

>> I think that's a big part of the point that Elizabeth was making, you know, that it's easy for us as adults to be like, I don't get this, and I don't like it.

Take it away.

Yeah.

We have to understand why it's valuable to you, but I still want to care about if it's doing harm to you.

Right.

So I'm with you there, Calvin.

Although I think someday when you're my age, you might.

You might look at teens and be like I just want you to know that, like, no, I'm.

I take the point because we're always coming at it through the lens of our own experience.

And if we don't get outside that it probably doesn't do a whole lot of good trying to relate.

Yeah.

So I think that's really good advice.

what does work for you in dealing with different triggers?

I mean, you talk about you recognize what your triggers are.

>> so I can recognize when like, hey, this situation is triggering me in this way.

I feel triggered.

Let me either remove myself.

either let the person know that.

Hey.

This happened.

This is my trigger.

I feel triggered by this situation.

Have a conversation to to move past it.

or depending on who it is, we can dive deeper into why the trigger is the trigger, why I was triggered.

and.

Yeah, just just respond to it a different way.

I used to respond to it, like, very negative, but now I'm able to understand get to the root cause of why I was triggered.

and, yeah, just go about it differently.

>> So again, I'm not saying that you have all the answers.

Nobody does.

But if you're now talking to a 15-year-old, 16-year-old who feels a sense of isolation or hopelessness and doesn't think it's going to get better and is feeling as low as maybe you have felt at your lowest points, what do you tell them?

>> be patient.

be present.

Understand that everything in life is happening for you and not to you.

And adversity is.

One of the biggest what is the word I'm looking for here?

One of the biggest keys to life.

>> Adversity can help you.

>> Yeah, yeah.

Adversity is pretty much how you learn yourself.

the way you respond to adversity defines character.

and, yeah, it's really about what you do in your moments of adversity that will define who you are when you come out of the era of adversity.

>> See, now I'm doing that thing again where I'm thinking about, like, from my own perspective or what my generation says about adversity.

But let me just ask you a question about that, because I think it's really interesting that you talk about reframing your mindset and seeing adversity as something that can be helpful to you.

There is a stereotype, I think, that older adults have of younger adults and teenagers, which is all adversity is a crisis.

You catastrophize and instead of taking the mindset that you have, small things can break you down.

Yeah.

Is there some truth to that?

Do you think.

>> I think small things can break you down if you allow it to.

I think once you realize as an individual that you are in control of life there's not really much that can deter you from the path you are on and your specific journey.

like, yeah, life may happen.

It may be adversity.

Things may not go your way.

doors may close.

You may get a no.

people may leave your life.

Death may happen, but it's all about understanding what you are in control of and controlling those things and what you're not in control of.

And being okay with.

Not being in control of those things.

>> I'm really impressed.

Calvin.

I really appreciate you being here.

What we're going to do after our only break is we're going to come back and the full panel is going to talk about what comes next.

Now that we've got this data, we're talking about Noelle Evans recent reporting on WXXI looking at some of the data that comes from common ground health and Rochester Regional Health Information Organization, which merged last year.

You heard Noel talking earlier this hour about some of that data that says self-harm is on the rise.

It's the leading cause of 6 to 17-year-old in that age range, ending up in an emergency room in our region.

It's a real, real problem.

So we're talking about that.

We'll come right back next on Connections.

Coming up in our second, hour, City Magazine is out with its annual winter guide and a bunch of ideas on books.

We can read, art.

We can experience, things we can enjoy, activities to do, even sports, things like that.

This winter, with a lot of us feeling the doldrums of the cold and the gray, we'll try to pick it up, turn that vibe around next hour.

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>> This is Connections.

I'm Evan Dawson.

I'm a question from a listener is asking do they have any thoughts on the this is not this is new to me.

The 764 group that is targeting kids online.

Do we know what that is?

Anybody know what that.

Anybody heard of that in this room?

No, not even Calvin.

The young person.

>> No idea what that is.

>> Okay.

All right.

I don't know the answer there.

So maybe someone can get us up to speed on that.

I mean, there's a lot of things happening online.

It's hard to stay on top of everything.

I just figured out six, seven, which I hope goes away forever.

Calvin, I just want you to know that's going away.

>> So annoying.

>> That's going.

That's that's done.

Right.

So we're done with that.

Okay, good.

All right.

We solved one problem.

another big problem is this question of prevention.

When we look at no one should be satisfied with the data.

Of course.

But there is a way to respond to existing problems.

And then there's a question about whether you can prevent this trend from either getting worse or can you prevent future issues.

And let's go around the table and I'll start with Dr.

Sinkiewicz.

When you look at the issue of prevention and some of this data, is there something that stands out to you that says, here's where we need to start putting the emphasis, resources, initiatives, et cetera.?

>> Yeah, as much as we have data on concerning trends, we have data on some preventive factors as well.

So which children and youth in particular with actually with all people sleep is the number one indicator for positive mental health.

Getting adequate sleep at night.

So if it's, you know, youth and kids are on devices during the day and removing them at bedtime, that's a good start.

there's also we know from the, the Yrbs, the Youth Risk Behavior Survey that having one protective one supportive adults in a children or youth's life can make all the difference that one adult outside of a parent can make a huge difference for their self-esteem.

For having someone to go to.

that's a very protective factor.

So we know that from the data as well.

>> Okay.

Dr.

Fantegrossi.

>> Yeah, prevention certainly is key in our mind from a school perspective.

and one of the things that I would highlight is schools look at these challenges from really a public health model, a tiered intervention model, tier one being what are we doing for all students?

Tier two being what are we doing for some students that need some additional support and tier three being what are we doing for our students with the highest level of need?

And if schools are really going to find success within that, they have to have a really robust tier one because you don't have enough resources to have specified plans for each student in a building.

So how can we really produce a robust tier one program that helps address that?

So and Elizabeth can speak to this as well.

We have satellite mental health clinics in most of our schools.

where Rochester Regional Health or Urmc or Liberty provide therapists and they are located in the schools.

We have curriculums that teach social emotional wellness and well-being in New York State.

We are fortunate to have a New York State trauma informed network and resource center that supports trauma awareness and how to build trauma and resilience factors in our young people.

There's an entire curriculum built around that calling ten called Tending the Roots.

And in the Community Schools model, which ten school districts use the community schools model 41 schools in all.

one of our tenants is creating a culture of care and belonging.

And so I think our schools are attempting to take this in intentional, purposeful path to addressing it.

and we're blessed to have a number of organizations in our community who are fighting that same fight.

And Children''s Institute is one of them.

>> I just to follow up the point on so if you want to create a culture of care and belonging, as you say, you said earlier this hour that we want to get away from is maybe the well intentioned, but just thrown programs at the wall or thrown different ideas at the wall without kind of a cohesive plan for how they're going to work.

How do you create a culture of inclusion, belonging, care?

How do you do that?

>> Yeah.

So the start of that conversation is have we taught a young person how to express their feelings?

Do they have language around feelings?

Do they have self-awareness?

As Calvin alluded to, at that tier one level, do we have a base level of understanding of how the human brain and emotions work?

Then for those students who need more at a tier two level, do we have small group interventions?

Do we have the ability to bring a few students together to have a deeper conversation about a specific concern or need, and then you're going to have about 5% of your students in a well performing situation.

You're going to have 5% of your students who need even more.

And do we have outside expertise to work directly with those students in a one on one situation so that they have the services they need to be?

Well.

>> Well, let's go to your colleague across the table, and let's talk about prevention from from your perspective, Elizabeth, what what what can be done here?

>> I think there's a variety of things.

I mean, if you think about it, schools are the one place that kids are required to be in person and interacting.

That's the only place they are required to be that's left.

you know, there's school sports, there's school clubs and activities.

There's being in the building.

Everything else is optional.

So many kids have no other interaction except for what happens in the school day.

But it is the one place they are still required to be in person.

So there's a real opportunity there to create connection just by being in person.

I think there's a hyper focus on the academics and the test scores and the getting the achievement up.

After COVID.

There was all this reporting on how we're all, you know, the scores are down and we're not performing well as it compares to, you know, my reaction to that in some ways was so what?

And I could get a lot of pushback for that.

But everybody's a year behind in our academics.

We need to focus on we need to give teachers permission to focus on social emotional development and connection and belonging, because right now they don't feel they have permission to do that.

>> Do you think post-pandemic there was too much of a concern about getting kids pulled back up academically and not enough on social emotional?

>> I think so, and not to say that we need to lower standards or that we should hold kids accountable and have keep rigor but I think there teachers, I talked to a lot of teachers and they feel so much pressure to get through their content that they say they don't have time for this.

It's important, I get it.

I wish I had time, I don't have time.

And so, you know, one of the things we're working on at Children''s Institute is figuring out quick, easy ways teachers can kind of incorporate relationship building skills, communication skills, all of these things into instruction.

So, you know, do small group work in math and just ask the kids to take a couple of minutes before they start working on a problem to talk about how are we going to work together?

So that takes like a minute and a half, but it's a social emotional skill around how do you talk to your peers?

Just little practices, things they can do so that teachers can be part of this?

Because I think there's this sort of emphasis on we need more mental health staff which of course we do.

But also teachers need to be part of the solution.

And they are feeling so overwhelmed by all the things on their plate right now that they need kind of ways they can do this, you know, as part of their instruction, build it into what they're doing, and also have the permission to take a little bit of time to work on it.

>> Calvin, when you were in school, did you were you ever in a, did you ever circle up what's the term there?

It's community circle.

Yeah.

Oh, my gosh, my.

restorative practice.

Thank you.

Restorative justice.

Restorative practices.

Thank you.

Elizabeth.

sometimes my brain just shuts off.

Did you ever do any restorative circles?

ever circle up with students?

>> no, sir.

>> No.

are you familiar with the practice?

Yes.

Okay.

Do you think it, from what you've seen, do you think it can be helpful to get students again?

And I'm not saying that's what Dr.

Rossi was specifically talking about, getting students in small groups, but sometimes, yes, that kind of thing where students are talking together, working through hard things together.

Do you think that can work?

>> Absolutely.

>> Okay.

do we do enough of that, or do you think students have the communication skills to to work through that?

>> yes.

I think it's just all about setting the tone and and allowing them to feel comfortable enough to do that.

as an adult or as a teacher and instructor.

you have to understand that you set the tone.

And when kids come into your classroom, what do you want them to feel?

How do you want them to feel, and how do you want them to remember you as a, teacher mentor, which whichever you identify as but yeah.

>> And, you know, I'm thinking about the ways that people say that therapy can break down.

For example, two people go to therapy and one goes in with the idea that, well, I can't wait for this, for the therapist to tell you that you're wrong as opposed to, you know, what can we both understand together?

Right.

And it look, I mean, when you're 15 years old, when you're 16, when you're 17 years old, and your emotions are high over something, or you feel like you've been wronged, I think it's easy to sit down in a group and think, let's have it out.

And then, you know, the person who wronged me is going to kind of get their comeuppance as opposed to, I'm we're going to take this opportunity to try to grow together.

That takes a lot of maturity, doesn't it?

Yeah.

But you think again, you're you're confident that we all can do it.

The kids can do it.

>> Absolutely.

>> Okay.

>> And we have examples of that oven.

I mean, RCSD runs a wonderful restorative hub that is almost entirely staffed by students.

So and we've been doing restorative practices, not as intentionally as I'd like it across the entire county, but we are on the precipice of that.

we recently secured some grant funding, and we have a cadre of people, actually, the second cohort is being trained right now at the Strath Allen called Restore New York to bring restorative practices across sectors in Monroe County.

so and Elizabeth can speak to this as well.

it is not so much is someone capable of doing it?

Is are we capable of teaching them?

>> Okay.

Yeah.

I mean I, I'm open to anything that works doctor.

So let me work through some, some emails here.

This one we're going to keep anonymous and it says Evan I started self-harm when I was a kid in the 1980s.

Unbeknownst to my family.

It escalated in the early 90s, and I ended up in the psych unit for a weekend.

When I told the therapist that I had cut my wrist to distract from my pain, she said that was the most ridiculous thing she had ever heard.

Obviously, I never went back to see her.

I'm better now in my 50s, but I've struggled my whole life with mental health issues.

To the person who sent that.

First of all, thank you for sharing your story.

And, I'm sorry that anybody would ever tell you that.

That was ridiculous.

I don't think that that would ever be a common response.

Now, although I don't I can't speak for the, you know, the, the field that assesses it.

I think that would be surprising to everyone in this room if that was any kind of a typical response.

But I will say that the data, another piece of the data that I don't know that we talked about yet that concerned me here, I'll read this right now of the 1903 youth in the Finger Lakes region who sought care for self-harm, 71% of them returned to the Ed at least one more time that same year for additional behavioral health treatment.

So, Dr.

Sinkiewicz, we can look at this two ways.

We can say they're going to get treatment.

They're going to get help.

They're at least engaging with the system.

Or we could say they went in and they went back.

Maybe in an emergency something is not working.

How do you see that bit of data?

>> Well, many of the clinicians that we've spoken with I think they would say Ed is not an appropriate source for mental health care.

It is for extreme circumstances.

It is to stop immediate self-harm and provide those bandages to.

But it is not addressing root cause.

It isn't the place to address root cause.

So if we can look at prevention, if we can look at different types of therapy earlier on before it ever gets to the Ed, the the Ed is is not a place that's therapeutic.

It that is not the intention of it.

So if we can look at prevention and get children, youth, the support they need earlier and often, and at a first step, just going back to the the email that you read is, is validation, is believing someone and listening and listening without judgment.

>> Related to that, here's another email again, I'm going to keep this email anonymous.

Evan, I wish I could call in, but I'm sitting here sobbing and I don't think I could get through the call.

I cut myself when I was 15 and 16.

I am now 45.

What I wish the adults around me did back then was listen, just listen, try to understand without judgment, without reactivity, without jumping into solutions.

And I want to say to the kids who are in the midst of this, you are not broken.

There is nothing wrong with you.

You will find your people who will love you and care about you the way that you need.

You are not alone.

There are people who have gone through this and they want to help.

And if you don't have an adult who you can talk to, ask for help.

And it may not be the first therapist that you encounter, but you need to find someone that you feel comfortable sharing this with.

There is a way through this.

Thank you for this important conversation.

That's just more of the point about validation without judgment.

So that's a repeated theme.

All of our guests nodding along to the person who sent that email.

Very powerful.

Thank you.

Isaac emails to say, Evan, greatly appreciate this discussion today.

I strongly recommend reading The Anxious Generation by Jonathan Hite.

I'm curious if your guests have read it.

Yes.

Okay.

>> I have not.

>> Okay.

Recommend.

>> I would recommend it.

Yes.

>> Okay.

I mean, Jonathan Hite is still not been on Connections, but he's a busy guy.

We're going to work on that.

Would you recommend it?

>> Absolutely.

>> Okay.

Have you read it?

>> I haven't read it, but I am familiar with it.

>> Okay, Isaac.

Thank you.

We'll see if we can get Jonathan Hite in the future.

That's a hard one.

But we're going to work.

Kathleen says, I so agree with your guest, Elizabeth.

It is much easier just to ban cell phones for students while in public schools rather than invest in teaching kids how to manage their time effectively when using their devices in social media.

When the band started, I was hoping that teachers and administrators would also have to keep their phones away during the school day because we are all responsible for being role models of what we are preaching and related to that, Rick says.

Evan, your guests have provided some important insights about mental health issues faced by young people.

I thank them for their thoughtful comments as I consider the challenges they identify.

I wonder how much we as adults are just as affected by social media, and how that has made us less effective or helpful as we raise our children or otherwise work with young people as teachers, coaches, et cetera.

That's from Rick.

Yeah.

Fair point.

That's why I said this is not just like a fix the kids problem, I think.

What do you think, Elizabeth?

>> Yeah, it was just we I think I'm thinking about parents right now.

I mean, we're here to talk a lot about schools, but I think families are really struggling with how to support their kids.

And I, we have a Family Impact Council and Leadership Council at Children's Institute that advises us.

And we were having a conversation at a recent meeting about this very issue.

And I think they're looking for guidance on, you know, how do I put screen limits on how do I take the phone out of my kids hands, how do I handle things when they're struggling?

And then what do I do when I'm busy?

I'm working two jobs.

I, you know, I braid hair and my kid 4-year-old's sitting there.

I need him to be entertained so I can make money for my family.

So I put him on his device, and, you know, can you really fault me for that?

No.

Right.

So how do we help parents think about ways that they can still build in connection, build those skills for their kids and make use of these devices that are helpful when they're struggling to just, you know, get their lives do their daily thing.

So I think there's, you know challenges around that.

How do we help parents think that stuff through and guidance that's needed there as well?

>> Calvin, early into your adulthood, I mean, you grew up as a kid in the social media generation.

Are you better at managing that stuff now at 22?

>> yeah.

I'm not gonna lie.

I'm still working on it.

I'm still working on it.

>> We all are.

>> But I am.

Yeah, I would say I'm much better than I used to be.

And I am a person who understands that social media is not real.

it's literally like a a highlight reel.

Compare and contrast, like to talk like I talked about before.

you're comparing the highlight reel of your life to someone else, but they're not sharing what goes on outside of the highlight reel.

They're not sharing what goes on when their hair is not done, when they don't have the best makeup, when they're not on a fancy trip in Bora Bora, or at a concert, they're like, they're not sharing real life experiences.

I don't see people getting on social media and talking about real, real issues.

or like we're talking about right now, mental health.

how can we better assist our youth in schools?

and not even just our youth like the adults?

How can we better assist?

Because if the adults are not right, then the youth won't be either.

>> So that's really, really good stuff.

And and maybe a good place to close it.

I'm thinking about the fact that.

So I, I got a newborn at home and you're telling me the only pictures I send is him smiling?

I you're right.

I don't send the picture.

My dad in Cleveland is like, your son is so happy.

I'm like, not all the time, but it's selective, you know?

I mean, I'm with you.

And hopefully we have the wisdom, but when you're 12 years old and you're on Instagram for the first time and you think the comparative world is, that's reality, that's tough.

There's a lot here.

And I encourage everyone to read the report.

We're going to link it in our show notes.

Educate yourself on what's going on here and I hope exit this conversation with more empathy.

A lot of great stuff from our guest this hour.

Dr.

Sinkiewicz, Director of Research at Commonground Health.

Thank you for being here.

Thank you.

Thanks to Dr.

Joseph D. Fantigrossi, director of the Community Schools Coalition at Monroe County, coordinator of Regional Community Schools at Monroe two Orleans Boces.

Thanks for being here.

>> Thanks for having me.

>> Our thanks to Elizabeth Devaney, director of the Whole Child Connection at the Children''s Institute.

Thank you.

>> I really appreciate it.

>> Calvin Holloway, senior recreation assistant with the City of Rochester.

Keep doing the good work.

Thank you very much.

>> Thank you sir.

>> More Connections coming up in just a moment.

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