From WXXI news.

This is connections.

I'm Julie Philipp, filling in for Evan Dawson.

Our connection this hour was made over four decades.

That's how long Rochester native and music journalist Barry Walters has been documenting the intersection of mainstream and LGBTQ music and pop culture for major publications including The Village Voice, spin, and Rolling Stone.

And now he's poured all of that experience and expertise into a book, Mighty Real A History of LGBTQ music, 1969 to 2000, examines how music became a way for queer people to fight oppression and find community, often using code and how the music industry has been changed by LGBTQ musicians, music industry executives and fans.

Walters book is written in a very personal way that allows that, follows his own journey, and sheds light on the experience of marginalized communities.

During the end of the last century.

How being authentic if you were queer or black or female, meant you had to challenge the norms.

And the book allows readers to consider the lingering inequalities that exist today.

It is my great pleasure to welcome Barry Walters, author of Mighty Real High.

Barry.

Hi.

Good to see you.

Happy to be here.

Before we get started, I have a word of advice for our listeners that they might want to have, you know, Spotify or Amazon or whatever streaming device they use, because we're going to talk about a lot of songs and they're going to want you.

I guarantee it, listeners, you're going to want to hear them.

So be ready for that.

Right?

Barry?

Yes.

So before people.

Have told me it takes.

Oh.

I'm sorry.

No, you go ahead.

Cut you off.

People have told me it's taken them, some time to get through my book because they keep putting it down and switching on Spotify or YouTube to hear and see the videos, to see if they really are what I'm saying.

They are.

And, that's how I designed the book.

Yeah.

Guilty as charged, I did that, it took me forever to get through the book because I kept wanting to see the videos, listening to the songs again.

So I had that same experience before.

We dig too deeply into the book.

You are from Rochester.

You grew up here?

60s.

70s, correct?

Yes.

I was born in the early 60s and I grew up in Greece.

Greece.

Okay.

And you touch there's a bunch of little snippets in your book about your experience here.

For example, you write about Lou Reed in the song walk on the Wild Side and hearing it on the radio for the first time when you're 11 years old and you write, quote, it was like picking up an alien transmission from a friendlier planet.

What are some of your memories from these formative years in Rochester?

Well, I had great friends, and I was surrounded by music.

My sister had a dance studio, but my dad didn't work at Kodak or Xerox.

And that combination of things sort of set me apart.

I was not a typical kid in the suburbs.

I was very plugged in to music.

I wanted to look like I was in a rock band or a charter member of the Jackson five.

And that became a problem.

People were misgendering me.

I didn't intend to be a girl.

I just wanted to be the me that I felt I was inside, and that was a problem for somebody.

And I'm not even talking about sexuality.

I guess that my hair was slightly longer than the norm in the suburbs, and my clothes were were brighter, so that became a problem.

Okay.

And you talk about the first record you bought before hearing it was, Space Oddity by David Bowie.

Yes.

Quote.

Before I could name what I was, Bowie represented it.

And I get the sense when reading that chapter that Bowie has played a lasting role in your life.

Can you talk about that a little bit?

Yes, sure.

Well, I think he's played a lasting role in the lives of a lot of LGBTQ people in my generation, because he was really the first, first significant musician to say I am something besides straight, he said he was gay or bisexual in various interviews.

And I read this when I was 11 and just learning about sex and really learning about gender, and I didn't know what bisexual men, I had to buy the record to hear what it sounded like.

I had to hear the record and buy it in order to find out what this extraordinary person sounded like.

Who I mean, immediately I felt connected to him, and he expressed a certain kind of otherness that and made it beautiful, made it alluring.

And people were crazy for him.

But he was, particularly at the beginning, a love or hate kind of figure.

And I guess, I mean, I have to say, junior high was not fun.

But high school really was because I found people who were just like me.

Right.

And you had a mentor.

I don't know if this is in the book or I read it somewhere else, but you have a mentor that probably a lot of people in Rochester know.

Mr.

Maines.

History.

Well, I don't know if if he was a mentor, but I would say that he was a benevolent experience from who made it, easier for not just gay kids at the high school, but just everyone who didn't, you know, wasn't exactly, like a jock.

So.

So despite the difficulties in Greece, you did have some acceptance in Rochester.

Oh, yes.

And we're talking about means, by the way, who is the city's first openly gay council member?

Tim Means.

Yes.

I want to say something about that, because he was out at a time when Anita Bryant was going after teachers just like him.

He that the people, the other teachers in the school supported him.

And so you could get into trouble if you were calling other kids, you know, derogatory anti-gay slurs and that made it, better for everyone, not just the gay kids.

Okay.

So, music for a lot of young people is kind of a life saver.

It's a way to feel less alone.

They see themselves in the lyrics, you know, they connect with it.

But not everybody grows up to be a very successful music journalist.

Can you talk about how music became sort of the focal point of your career?

Sure.

Well, I went to, Fordham in New York City for, English and theater, and, I graduated at Lincoln Center and then, went to grad school for cinema studies.

And, while, that was happening, I started writing for the Village Voice.

I worked for, someone who was a very respected writer there, Vince already.

And he was the first music journalist that in my research who ever came out.

And, The Village Voice was a place where you could be out and write for other LGBTQ people, but not necessarily just them.

And that was a great model for me because I got to be who I was, and it wasn't apart from everyone else.

It was in the center of, I mean, New York City was very much at the center of my world, the and the music world and also the gay world.

And so I got I got lucky.

Oh, yes, you did.

And I but I really I really worked hard.

It was a little challenging being in grad school and being published more than my professors.

And that created some friction.

And then I realized after I wrote about Madonna and I heard indirectly that my friend heard from his friend who heard from Keith Haring, who heard from Madonna that she loved my article.

Then I thought, I have.

To be a. Jerk.

You know, this, this is maybe my my destiny.

Okay, great.

And so 40 years later, we have mighty real and I'm going to hold it up so people can see this great cover, mighty real.

For listeners who might have missed out on, the disco era, can you explain, what the title of the book means and why you chose it?

Sure.

It's, part of the Sylvester song.

You make me feel mighty real and real.

This is something that LGBTQ people fight hard for.

When I was born, it's hard for me to remember this because, you know, I didn't see it firsthand.

But people were in the early 60s being put into essentially insane asylums.

They were undergoing shock therapy, like Lou Reed, simply to shock the gay out of their systems or to keep them away from the rest of society.

You could be arrested just for being gay.

And, I think that antagonism fired up a lot of artists like David Bowie and Lou Reed, and they, told us that we were not we should not think of ourselves as criminals.

Okay.

So we were worthy just as we were.

And that reality that, that that society is posed is trying to tamper down is a beautiful thing.

And so Sylvester was embodying that and disco was embodying that, whether that message was explicit or not, it was shared by millions of people.

Of course, you know, when Saturday Night Fever came along, disco was extremely mainstream.

But it was born in the gay clubs because it's important to know that in New York State, you could be arrested just for dancing with someone of the same sex.

Yeah.

And that was until sometime in the 70s.

Correct.

Early, late 1971.

Wow.

And and really the roots of disco really start at that point.

What made you decide to sit down and finally write a book after years and years of going to concerts and meeting artists and interviewing people, you decided to make a book.

What inspired that?

Well, frankly, I survived when a lot of my friends perished from the Aids crisis, and I felt although I really wanted I, you know, I've always had a sense of humor in my writing, and I've always wanted to entertain people while I enlighten them, if you will.

I mean, if I'm going to think about it on a very serious level.

I also felt like I had to bear witness to what I survived and speak for those who had passed.

So I decided, I mean, I tried to do this years ago, really, back in 1997, after I left the San Francisco Examiner, which was the afternoon daily paper and a Hearst paper.

I tried to do it.

I, searched out the agent of someone who wrote an extraordinary book, Vito Russo.

He wrote the book, The Celluloid Closet homosexuality in the news in, in in in Hollywood or.

No, or in the movies.

But anyway, it's difficult to make the shift from being.

It's like becoming you becoming.

Say you've been, a sprinter all your life, and then you try.

You try to train to be a marathon runner.

It's an extraordinarily different rhythm.

And also, you have to write a book proposal that proves that you can do it.

And, it took me a while to get up the confidence and the learn the ability to do that.

Well, congratulations.

It really is an excellent book.

I can attest to that.

So before we dig into it to more of the book, I just want to take a step back and, and the, the subtitle of this is A history of LGBTQ music.

Can you define that for our listeners?

What LGBTQ music is?

Well, it's really many things.

But, in the context of this book, it's music that is made by LGBTQ people, but also music that is listened to by LGBTQ people.

And I, I specifically included Q because, well, some people identify as queer, but, or questioning however you want to interpret that.

Q but also, I wanted to include our allies who have been listening to and supporting artists like David Bowie, like, even Madonna, who I feel certainly has a queer side, undoubtedly in her music, and perhaps her private life.

But, I wanted the Alice allies to feel included and miraculously, straight guys are telling me.

Wow, you showed me a side to the music that I grew up with, and I just did not.

I was blind to this side of it.

I was blind to these interpretations of the songs or the videos, and they totally get it now.

And they they understand something about gay experience that they didn't, before they read the book.

And that was part of my goal.

Okay.

And coded messages are such a big part of what you write about that there's so much coding that that, straight people don't see that they think it's all about them.

And you really.

Sure.

One example is Lola by the Kinks.

But there's lots of others.

Could you, could you provide some more examples and why coding was so important?

Well, because we were essentially illegal, say, in the 50s and 60s and really the, the, the, illegality of gay life didn't end in many states until the 80s.

But anyway, we had to have a way of talking to ourselves and with ourselves and to each other that would bypass the censors, bypass the gatekeepers, bypass the people who would shut us up or say, no, you can't say that on a record.

So, I mean, David Bowie was a great example, of someone who did this very cleverly in a song like Lady Stardust.

Well, Lady Stardust is a feminine figure, but he uses masculine nouns and a song like Rebel Rebel.

Your mother's not sure if you're a boy or a girl.

A lot of people would.

A lot of straight people would think that the rebel rebel he's flirting with is, is female, but he just might be male, or she might be male, or they might be them.

You know, and so that, I mean, everyone in my generation knows that song has one of the classic riffs of the 70s.

And I think by being that successful, I mean that accessible that brought gay life to people who wouldn't ordinarily know about it.

So gay people were hearing the messages straight.

People were not hearing the messages.

They were hearing the song.

Sure.

Okay.

Yeah.

So you start the book in the year 1969.

Why that year?

Well, that was the year of the Stonewall riots.

For kids who don't know what that was, it was, the Stonewall, it was owned by, the Mafia.

Like many gay bars were in New York City, and it had one of the few gay dance floors, not a DJ, but a jukebox.

And kids would wear, you know, put the quarter in or whatever and dance to the Supremes or whatever.

And, it was regularly raided and, kids were regularly, now I'm saying kids.

But you also remember, you need to know that when, back in the 60s and even in the 70s, up to the mid 80s, the drinking age in New York City was, was 18.

So, kids, there was a, the, the, the, the, police showed up and the kids fought back because they were tired of it.

And it became a breaking point, not just in New York City, but all over the world that we just we got fed up with the treatment.

We got fed up with the arrests just for the simplest thing, like like dancing with people of your own sex.

I mean, what is more innocent than dancing?

And so anyway, that sparked a kind of revolution.

And also because of Andy Warhol in New York, he was, giving people, a spotlight that they wouldn't ordinarily have.

He was putting trans people and gay people, in his place.

And, they were very acclaimed.

The put them in his movies.

They were very acclaimed people, you know, on the underground alternative scene, saw those movies and that David Bowie was inspired by all that.

And so and Lou Reed, was also a part of that world.

Andy Warhol produced the first Velvet Underground album, and, and and Lou Reed chronicled that world and that is what walk on the Wild Side is about.

Yeah.

So in the beginning, you talk about, other marginalized communities and how they used music and another quote from the book here, just as Motown modeled How to Rise Above Racism for Black America, Diana Ross, Smokey Robinson and the rest unknowingly advised us on how we could transcend homophobia.

What were they doing that influenced LGBTQ music at that time?

Well, if you listen, even you don't have to listen.

Hard to pick this up, but a lot of Motown songs, they have really wonderful, uplifting dance rhythms.

They have uplifting chord changes.

The melody soars, but often all that music, all that upbeat music is connected to, songs of, lyrics about struggle.

And usually it's a romantic struggle, but you can also hear it as a racial struggle.

And I feel you can.

Also, I feel that LGBTQ people also heard that combination of spectacular, glistening, beautiful outsides and wounded yet, you know, strong and and and determined lyrics.

That combination resonated with us.

And most a lot of gay culture is very bright on the outside.

I mean, the jacket that the jacket that I'm wearing.

Was the jacket.

That my husband and I, got married in matching suits like this.

And for those who don't.

See them, it's a sparkly silver suit jacket.

Yeah, it's it's a suit jacket covered.

Completely covered in sequence.

But in some ways, you know, here I am on a talk show, being serious with you in my sparkly jacket.

Yeah.

And that's a metaphor for, my book, which, of course, has a really bright, colorful, cover, but has a lot of stories of serious, serious struggle.

Correct.

Okay.

So, you know, the whole the whole Motown experience, it made us feel like we could belong because, you know, Diana Ross and the Supremes, they were number one.

I think they were the most popular girl group.

But also all of the, the Motown Smokey Robinson, who had a very androgynous singing style, and the choreography of Motown, the sharpness of it, it was it was made to transcend the color barrier at a time when, when whites and blacks were very literally segregated, when Motown came to town, kids were supposed to be, you know, like, the black kids might be all seated in the balcony and the white kids might all be seated in the orchestra, and then then and then they end up dancing together because the music is so is so much about togetherness?

Well, that that gave us inspiration for good.

When we get back, we're going to take a quick break.

When we get back, I want to talk about the Village People.

So, we will be taking just a quick break.

And when we get back, we'll continue our conversation with Barry Walters, author of Mighty Real.

I'm Evan Dawson, coming up in our second hour as part of connection Summer Sessions Food and Beverage Week, we look at what happened when the trade war between the United States and Canada affected our Finger Lakes industries.

A lot of businesses in the Finger Lakes rely on Canadian tourism to give them a boost, especially in the summer.

But after the tariffs and the trade war, Canadians stopped coming and they stopped selling our products.

So what next?

We talked about it.

Next.

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This is connections.

I'm Julie Phillips sitting in for Evan Dawson, and we've been talking with Rochester native and music journalist Barry Walters about his new book, Mighty Real.

And Barry, we have Don from East Rochester on the on the phone, and he wants to comment about the Village People.

And I know you've written a better part of a chapter about the village chief, village people.

So let's go to Dan.

Hello.

Thank you for taking my call.

When I was in my 20s, which was back in the 1970s, I, I remember hearing the Village People, and I was totally amazed at the things at their visual image, for one thing.

And what they were saying in the in the words to their songs, in it, to every day, especially man especially, I mean, gay person in the in the United States.

It struck a chord with its.

I find it ironic that in the in 2026, Donald Trump's favorite song is YMCA.

I don't think he understands the meaning of the lyrics, because if he did, he would probably shrink back and that would no longer be his favorite song.

I understand that YMCA is played at wedding receptions.

Again, I don't think those people understand the meaning of the words, otherwise they probably wouldn't be playing them.

Would your guest like to comment on that?

I have a feeling he would very.

What do you say?

Well, the village people were mastermind.

They were put together by a gay, French Moroccan jock Merali.

And he came to New York and he saw really macho guys in all the bars and in the dance clubs.

And he was particularly inspired by a guy who was dressed up as well.

We used to call them Indians, that Native Americans.

And, he put this guy, he built a, a group around them.

Philippe Rose was the the man in, in, Native American garb with all the feathers.

And, he, he picked out a cop, a construction worker, all these things to represent, the macho side of gay life, which was really fighting back about to cliche that, all gay men are limp wristed pansies.

So village people, and that's supposed to represent Greenwich Village.

And the songs are designed the work.

We were talking about coding earlier.

These songs were very cleverly coded to speak about gay life, gay discos, gay sex, gay everything, gay, gay means of of dressing the whole bit while signifying just macho ness to a straight mainstream audience.

And, yeah, it is quite strange that Donald Trump, took this song on as his rallying anthem.

I mean, Donald Trump did go to studio 54, which had a very gay side to it.

Studio 54.

And it's all in of itself was a reflection of this simultaneity of, gay culture and, straight culture and, and, I, you know, it's people are free to interpret music the way they want to.

That's or any kind of art that is the freedom and beauty of it, but it is misrepresented it misrepresenting the original intention of the village people, which was shock morale.

He wanted to have a band that was really for us, was for gay people.

And, as when, the the cop, Victor Willis took over, the songs became more and more ambiguous, when he took over as lyricist.

So, Yeah, that that's what's going on in the Village People.

So you end the book, at the year 2000.

Why is it.

Well, still contemporary tiki music, which we're going to talk about in a minute, but why choose the year 2000 and the history of the music?

You know, I originally intended to start the book, the beginning of recorded music and, and at the present day.

And, of course, as I wrote the book, the present day got further and further away.

But when I. But but it made more sense to start with Stonewall, when things became a little less coded or that they be more and more coded, music started appearing.

To.

And then and, and, 2000 because around then that's when just about everyone, with access to a computer went online and kids no longer needed to have gay experience mediated through music.

They could go online.

And the other gay kids, they didn't have to buy a record in order to find out what gayness was about.

So I figured that, that was a good place to start to stop.

Okay.

We have a comment from Sydney on YouTube.

She said she was very touched by the performance of Somewhere Over the Rainbow by Rufus Wainwright at the No Kings Rise Up Sing Out concert this June.

She said it seemed like the LGBTQ community has adopted that song, so let's talk about that song and some other contemporary LGBTQ music.

And whether or not it's taking on renewed importance, given the state of the times that we live in now.

Yes.

Well, that song, every everyone who has seen The Wizard of Oz or has heard that song, it's about seeking sanctuary.

That there is a place somewhere that we will be safe.

The promised land for black folk, but also for gay folk.

And, there have been several iterations of this theme, like somewhere from West Side Story is very much about a place where a, a white guy and a Latin woman can, be safe and can, be themselves and love each other free from judgment.

The song home from The Wiz that really, picks up with its, it contemporary pieces and puts it into an R&B setting.

The themes of Over the Rainbow and sometimes in that song in particular, it's about an internal home, an internal place where we are safe.

So and gay people and and really black people or anyone who's facing discrimination, they need to find an inner sanctuary where they can retreat to and feel safe and feel healed.

And, there are all sorts of songs since then who have that feeling of searching for a place where they can be real, where they can be safe and they can be loved, free from the slings and arrows of our oppressors.

And, there is a lot of renewed hatred against LGBTQ people, particularly trans people.

They are the whipping boys or girls, if you will, of our culture right now.

And it's very sad.

I think many, many gay people, many lesbian people, many bisexual people and our allies see that they are the new, Like lowest on the totem pole.

Yeah.

So who are the contemporary artists that you see today that are kind of carrying the torch, standing up for and and providing, you know, we did talk about Over the Rainbow.

What who are some of the other artists that really stand out to you right now?

Is someone providing hope?

Well, I really adore and see myself in chapel.

Ron, I admire her courage.

She had a song, Good Luck, Bad, about falling in love with someone who feels like they must present a completely straight facade and live a straight life, and she's saying, I can't.

I can't love you anymore, I can't, I can't be a part of your facade.

And to put that message in a really huge song was extraordinary.

Pink Pony Club, it's very much about a gay bar in LA.

But.

When it came.

Out.

Abby, there were tons of little girls dressed in cowboy hats and boots and and joining the Pink Pony Glam.

Yes, because the song is really liberating for everyone.

A lot of gay culture is liberating for everyone.

You don't need to put it in a sexual context, but it is very freeing.

And also, I'd like to talk about Sam Smith, who just released a song called my Guy, and that song, breaks the the unspoken rule that a a man must avoid, using pronouns or gendered nouns that, talk about his beloved.

So he's singing my guy over.

He's my guy over and over.

And it's in a very loving, very disarming, very tender way.

But he's making it clear that he is loving a guy and that that, too, is a really revolutionary act because he his audience there, millions of people all around the world, love him and love that voice.

That voice is undeniably extraordinary.

So, that is a revolutionary act, and it's done in the most tender, sweet way.

Okay.

So if if you are offended by that song, then you really need to check yourself, right?

Because it it just sounds like an Adele song.

Yeah.

It just so happens to have a gay romance at the at the heart of it.

Now, every one of your chapters in the book, is a name of a different artist or band, and, it's an incredible list and it's just an incredible list.

Many of these musicians you have actually met, you've actually interviewed, you've written about, you've at least attended their concerts, I think.

But could you look back on on your career and think about the interviews that most that stand out most to you, that are most memorable, that have kind of had a lasting impact on you?

Who are the artists that really, when you sat down and talked with them, really made an impact on you?

Sure.

Well, I, was in New York and living in the, in the I was involved in the club world going to clubs.

Places like Danceteria that Madonna sings a lot, sings about, there's a song called Danceteria on her new album.

Confessions.

On on Dance Floor part two.

And watching her mature watching her reflect my culture was always an extraordinary thing.

And when I finally interviewed her for Ray of light, one of her greatest records, that was a big deal for me.

And she was so, not like the Madonna that we see.

She was very down to earth, very sincere, very smart.

Well, her art has always been very smart, at least to me and to a lot of LGBTQ people.

So that was a big deal to to because I felt like I was meeting the woman who had been playing Madonna all along.

I have to say the, the point when I started interviewing Melissa Etheridge and working my way up to the gay question and she said, hey, you know, I know what you want to ask me, and I want to answer it, but I'm not quite ready yet.

When I am, I will get back to you and I will answer that question.

And she kept her word.

She didn't, coming out interview with me for The Advocate.

So that was an extraordinary moment.

Whitney Houston was, also a big deal for the opposite reason, because she was very powerful.

I mean, her personality is as strong as the voice that comes out at you in the radio and in the songs.

And very mercurial.

She would be so happy one moment and really tearful the next.

And she had to lie.

The world was not ready for an, Whitney Houston.

If she had come out, she would have lost a great deal of her audience.

And yet, at the end of the interview, she introduced me to the love of her life.

Robin, who was, her, best friend and personal assistant since, they were teenagers and, that and you know what?

What happened to Whitney is a lesson in what can happen if you can't be your authentic self.

If you can't be real, you you you internalize the the, demons all around you, and, you do try to seek sanctuary in, the marriage, marriage that was abusive.

You seek sanctuary in drugs, you seek sanctuary in lies.

And it's a very sad thing.

But.

Yeah, yeah, she was really, an amazing presence.

And it was very challenging to talk with her because I could.

She was being very real with me.

As real as she could be while maintaining the lie.

So, Yeah, I will always remember that one.

Is somewhat related.

Because she sang one of her songs.

You met Dolly Parton, and and that, to me was an interesting part in your book to how you talk about, speaking with her and the kind of woman she is.

Yes.

Well, we live in a very divided society, right?

The that the right and the left.

Well, the left doesn't really I in my mind, it's not moving that far left.

It's just that the right keeps moving further and further.

Right.

And so, but that makes us that much more apart because the, the, the right is so extreme.

And, yet people on the left, people on the right, we can all see the good and the beauty and the love and the acceptance Adele of Dolly Parton.

And she really brings that with her.

And yet there's a sense of performance about Dolly if you interview her.

And yeah, when I interviewed her, she was very official.

And, I write about, you know, her famous bosom.

It's really it's she really puts it out there, almost like armor, right?

Like, you know, don't get too close.

This is a performance.

And when I asked her, To what what is she what recommendations do does she have for, drag queens who want to do Dolly really well?

Well, that disarmed her, and she she giggled and talked about.

Oh, honey, you gotta get a really sturdy wig and you gotta get really sturdy shoes.

And, I gave her a poster to sign.

It's a poster that comes with her greatest hits album from the 70s, and she's, she's really looking like little Abner's girlfriend.

And so she's signing and says, I really look like a drag queen here, don't it?

And and and but but I think she was acknowledging the sense of performance that is integral to who she is.

Yeah, it is very.

It's something that's very akin to drag.

I really enjoyed that chapter.

That was really funny.

So what kind of reaction have you been getting?

You know, you without even trying really you've gotten into the politics It's a divided nation right now.

There's a lot of discrimination, bigotry.

What kind of reaction are you getting to this book?

Well, writing the book was a struggle because it took nine years, and I did anticipate all sorts of challenges.

I thought lawyers would go after me, or I thought readers would go after me because, you know, maybe it's not this or maybe it's not that.

Or maybe I left out their favorite band, or maybe I didn't reflect their experience, but I tried as much as I could to put myself to to to honor black folk, to honor women, and to honor all sorts of queer experience, all sorts of LGBTQ experience, and I have to say that all I'm getting back is love.

All I'm getting are people saying, oh, thank you for capturing what the experience of this music is.

And and as I mentioned, straight, straight white guys are, are feeling very, they're very grateful.

Women women have been very grateful.

Black folk have been very grateful.

So and really, it was something there were times when I during the research because there, there are really so many there's, there's so much struggle in gay life and, and many performers really struggled to think about it all.

There were times I would just, you know, I'd have to stop and cry, to think about, friends that I had lost during Aids and how certain songs of friends who had passed, like, losing my Religion by R.E.M.

it made me think about, the times when I felt like I just lost my faith that, I would survive that.

That my friends would survive and many didn't.

And so I feel that in the book when when you read it.

Yes.

But but also you can really feel the brightness and the happiness and the joy that this music gave me and gave us.

I put myself in the book as a sort of a placeholder.

So if I wrote about my experience, people could think about theirs.

And that is what people are telling me that that they did capture, something about their lives and, and, and that they want to pass this along to younger people.

I wrote it for the kids, too.

So is is that what you want people to take away from this book?

Yes.

Well, I wanted people to realize how much this music, was to us, how it how it helped elevate us, how it gave us strength, how it made us feel like we could not only survive, but thrive in a world where we often get the message that we're subhuman, that we're against the law or are just against society.

This music made us feel at the center of, of, popular culture, of, of human existence.

And, that, that, you know, it's this music saved my life, and I know it saved the life, the lives of many people like me.

And you've written of it very beautifully, and I think you've accomplished that for both, queer LGBTQ people and straight people.

It really is an eye opening history that that is also, in a way, a memoir.

And a very hands on, a bit of a hopeful note.

So we only have about a minute or so left.

I hear there might be a playlist that goes along with the book, is there?

Oh, yes.

Yes, there is an official 100 song playlist on Spotify that, if you look up mighty real Barry Walters playlist, you can find Random House's official website that will take you right to.

Well, it's right there, the Spotify players right there on the page.

And so you can hear many of the most significant songs in the book, right.

Right there.

Yeah.

So 100 of them at your website.

So it has been an absolute pleasure talking with Barry Walters today, author of Mighty Real.

This is connections.

I'm Julie Phillips sitting in for Evan Dawson.

Thank you so much to Barry Walters, to our listeners for listening.

And of course, as always, the awesome production team we have here at WXXI.

I hope you have a great weekend.

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