From WXXI news.

This is connections.

I'm Evan Dawson.

Our connection this hour will be made next Saturday, June 14th.

That's when early voting begins for the Democratic primary in Monroe County.

Voters will see 15 names on the ballot for Rochester City Council and will make their choices for five At-Large seats.

Election day.

Primary election day is June 24th.

Our goal on this program is to talk to all of the candidates in this race, so you can make informed decisions before you go to the polls or at the polls.

And this is part four in our series of five conversations.

Today we are welcoming two of the candidates for Rochester City Council.

I'm going to introduce them in order in which they are listed on the Monroe County Board of Elections candidates list.

And Lewis, candidate for Rochester City Council.

Welcome back to the program.

Thanks for being here.

Thank you so very much for having me.

Mitch Gruber is, Well, thank you very much for being here.

Mitch Gruber is also a candidate and an incumbent running for reelection.

Thank you for being here.

Greetings.

a note for our audience.

Tanya Noelle Stevens was scheduled to join this discussion.

Her team has since notified she that she has decided to step away from the campaign.

We appreciate that note.

And, it's always our intention to to bring these interviews to you at length as best we can.

We do it randomly.

We select the candidates randomly.

And so here we are.

And we always start with a chance for them to introduce themselves.

So.

And you're up first.

If you want to tell the audience a little bit about your background, who you are and why you decided you want to run for this seat.

Go ahead.

Thank you.

again, thank, Mr. Dawson, for having me here.

My name is Ian Lewis, and I'm running for City council because I am an advocate.

I'm an individual who wants to empower individuals.

I'm an individual who wants to help our city thrive.

My background, I worked 16 years as a rehabilitation counselor in the Monroe County jail, the sheriff's department, five years as a, victim service worker for the Rochester Police Department.

Prior to that, I worked at the Salvation Army as an emergency family assistant.

I retired in 2021, as a special education teacher with the Rochester City School District.

However, every day I'm in the classroom, I sub every day.

also, I worked as an advocate, on the gun and Violence prevention hub.

so I've just been out there, working hard.

And again, the reason I'm running.

I want to empower people.

I don't want to bash what has been going on with the city, but we need some full disclosure.

We need some partnerships.

I am an advocate, but an approachable advocate, and I can build partnerships, and that's one of my strengths.

And I'm a good listener.

Well, thank you for being here.

And Mitch Gruber, floor is yours.

Thanks.

I'll be brief and just give a couple of highlights of of who I am.

I'm a vice president at Food Link, the regional food bank where I've worked for 16 years.

I am, as of recently, teacher at.

I teach local government to University of Rochester students.

I'm a father of two to young boys.

I'm very proud of that.

And I think most relevant to this conversation, I'm a, two term incumbent city council member serving the whole community as an at large member.

I currently chair the finance committee.

And just a couple of highlights about that.

we have been able to pass on time, balanced budgets.

every year that I've been the finance committee chair.

last year, when assessments went way up because the real estate market is wacky, which I'm sure we'll talk about at some point today.

We actually brought our tax rate down to try to minimize any burden that families felt.

And we've made really significant investments in key infrastructure.

We'd use the American Recovery Plan in the way it should have been used to shore up some critical infrastructure and not to fund big pet projects or or fill holes in budgets.

And so I'm very proud of that work and I hope to earn people's support.

So let's talk about and let's start on the issue of housing.

and I'm going to start with, Council member Mitch Gruber on that.

And so when you look at this city of Rochester, we are part of a nine county region that depending on if you're on Zillow or if you're on a number of different ratings, it's tough for buyers because there's not a lot of inventory.

So if you're trying to buy a home really, really tough, we know prices have gone up.

if you are renting, which the majority of Rochester residents are.

rent prices have gone up and there's a number of different proposals out there.

so let me give you some space to talk about how you see housing generally and what you think ought to happen in the near term that your work on the next council could produce.

a really big believer that the problem of housing is not as complicated as we all talk about it.

It is a matter of supply and demand.

when supply goes up, prices are able to come down.

We've seen this happen across the country, in other places.

The the place people look at most is Austin, Texas, which, you know, five or so years ago had among the 3 or 4 highest rents in the country.

And, and rents have plummeted, plummeted there because there's been so much building over the last several years.

And there's a lot of different ways, a lot of a lot of realities that need it, that need to click into place for building to happen in Rochester, in the way it happened in Austin.

But the single thing that the city can control the most is by changing our zoning code to make building easier for people to make it less, the to make less government barriers, to make more things available to build as of.

Right.

And I will tell you the single most important thing that the upcoming City Council will do is the City Council likely voted in, in in a few weeks, is going to be rewriting or authorizing the, the right now draft zoning code that the administration's been working on for multiple years.

Zoning codes do not come up for a vote every every couple of years.

It's usually every 2 to 3 decades.

We have not had one since the turn of the century.

And right now we are about to finalize a zoning code that I think it's critical.

We make it a tool to allow for an abundance mindset that we can build more supply.

So prices come down for everyone, whether you're a buyer or a renter.

what's the timeline on the zoning code?

In full transparency, the zoning code had made a lot of progress under Mayor Warren, and it was continuing to make progress because this was built off our comprehensive plan, which was which was set, you know, back in 2017, 2018 or 2019.

And I think rightfully, as it was getting closer to the finish line, Mayor Evans said, you know, he wanted to make sure that he had his administration stamp on it.

I mean, that's part of the challenge of doing these things through through administration change.

Sure.

So I believe that we, as as of the budget hearing that we had a couple weeks ago, I asked this question explicitly, and there should be a zoning code, to city council to vote on sometime in the calendar year of 2025.

And what is an example of something in that code that will start to push Rochester in the direction of what?

Whether it's maybe not mimicking Austin, to your point, but in that direction that will say, you know, it's no longer difficult to build or we've got a lot of building going and it's happening and it's not, exorbitantly expensive.

What could be in that code?

Yeah.

So I've listened to a couple of your shows with council candidates, and I've heard talks about the modular homes and the ADUs, and these are these are important topics, and they will be addressed by the zoning code.

But they're also, fairly small numbers.

I think the real opportunity is Driver on Rochester.

And show me, show me the number of ranches and townhouses that you see.

We just don't see that kind of building down in Rochester.

Co-ops, condos.

These are not the kind of buildings that we're seeing regularly, even though we have lot sizes that could match it.

We need a zoning code that allows for those things to be built with more ease.

In other words, allow allowing for potentially smaller structures built on lots, allowing for, differences in the kind of frontage that that are required.

Parking is a huge, huge challenge with zoning codes.

How much parking is required per apartment building when those things change?

More building follows and more building following means rents and homeownership and and prices for homes will come down too.

But not every zoning code.

Just because there will be new code doesn't mean it's going to have this thing.

You seem pretty confident that those things will be there.

Certainly, if I'm on city council.

Okay.

And Lewis and housing generally go ahead.

It's interesting to note because I call, the Rochester Zoning Department.

And as of May 21st, 2025, the zoning code had not been changed.

our current mayor has not proposed any legislation.

And this makes me wonder.

He's been on city council.

He's the mayor and other members of city council.

Now it's a big issue.

Change the zoning code.

But we've been operating under the same zoning code since 2003.

So now it's a hot topic.

Why hasn't this legislation been put in place years ago?

Well, I mean, it sounds like it's been in development for years.

it doesn't take that long to develop it because it was part of the, the package that they outlined for the city of Rochester.

The proposed changes, how to make Rochester better.

What's happening now, the homes that you see being built now?

those are properties that had homes on them.

They were torn down.

So they're allowed to build.

But the zoning.

So the zoning codes have not changed.

And no legislation has been re been presented to City Council to change those zoning code.

So let me just ask this in a different way because in a moment well, your view of this is very different than Council Member Gruber.

So we'll talk in a moment about that.

But just in general, if you're elected, what do you want to pursue in regards to housing?

I want to pursue pushing the leak and when pursue advocating with my other peers on city council to ask why is it taking so long?

When I talk to the zoning department, nothing has been presented.

It's a lot of rhetoric being said, but nothing has been outlined.

But what I want to pursue is, yeah, we need age in place housing.

I've said that at our different meetings, and all of a sudden the candidates are latching on to that concept, meaning we need ranch homes.

So when you age, you don't have to move out because you can't manage the stairs.

We need homes that allow for the availability of make an in-law apartments.

So maybe if your kids want to come back to live with you after college, you assist with Mom and dad.

There's a place for them to go.

We don't have that.

We need some homes that you can divide.

Well, can be double homes, so you can rent out one section to whomever and help pay for your mortgage.

We need stuff that's going to create generational wealth and that people can stay in their homes.

We need homes for the homeless.

you know, have you heard of the little tiny homes or little homes?

It's it amazes me.

It appears that's the concept that our current mayor is proposing now.

But he's been in office for a while.

He's been on city council for a while.

There's been a homeless problem for a while.

Why hasn't this been proposed?

Only now, then, is election season is being proposed.

When we do create those, tiny homes, we need wraparound services where, say, the U of our can bring a rolling van there.

We can have counseling on the premises.

We need to teach people how to maintain the homeless, how to maintain them homes, how to if there's a mortgage, how to pay for that.

We need a lot of wraparound services to make sure people stay in homes.

Okay.

Council Member Gruber, did you want to follow up there?

Yeah, just a couple of things.

first of all, tiny homes.

So the announcement, the other day that I think people are talking about is the modular homes, but tiny homes actually reach advocacy.

nonprofit organization Rochester proposed tiny homes to the city about four years ago at this point, and we approved it.

The only reason why they have not been able to, start it's particular land in the northwest of Rochester.

The only reason it hasn't, sorry, is because they have not completed all their financing for it.

However, I think this is what this is the critical point.

They would have been able to get through the process a lot faster and have much more money in their pocket.

If not for the huge amount of time it took to get through the zoning code process.

So that is the reason why zoning changes need to be done expediently.

And Tim is Lewis is point.

there is no, zoning code being draft and being proposed to council today.

It's still in the review process.

There was a draft put out and there were over 2000 comments that have actually all been cataloged and recorded and transcribed and put on the Rochester Zap website.

And so, you know, the reason why zoning codes don't happen every couple of years is because they're incredibly contentious and incredibly, and riddled with, with controversy in a lot of different ways.

And I do think it's most important for us to get it right rather than do it quickly.

But it has to be done pretty soon at this point, because our housing market is changing dramatically by the day, I think, and it's feels like it's political season.

So that's why people care about it now.

And you're saying that's not the case?

And I'm not saying it has to be done quickly.

2003 the code hasn't changed.

Come on.

It's a okay.

She's saying this is political season.

That's why of course you care.

Now.

Yeah.

I mean, I've, I've cared about the zoning code since I've been on city council.

We don't oftentimes get opportunities to do it.

It's actually something.

It's one of the things that I'm most excited about in a third term is to be able to have the opportunity to really impact the zoning code.

22 years of not having a new zoning code is not abnormal.

There's, I would say the vast majority of cities are not rewriting their zoning code.

every two decades.

It's usually a little bit more often than that or less often than that.

Well, related to housing certainly is what the future of downtown is going to look like.

And, you know, we're across the street from an old Kodak headquarters.

I understand we're not going back to 65,000 people working for one company.

I mean, who knows?

But that's not likely the future.

Having said that, and for you, what should the future of downtown look like?

And what is what is the future of of an employment base look like in the city?

If we're successful, I want to just go back to.

Okay.

My comment.

Sure.

Well, if the the group that Mitch said was having trouble getting their paperwork, put an advocate in there to help them to complete that paperwork to get the financing for them tiny homes.

That's what city council men should look like.

And women helpers advocate people who help you implement, not just, well, they didn't get their paperwork in.

So that was a glitch.

They've been working on it for years.

Help them, empower them.

Now what your question is, what should City of Rochester look like?

Sure.

As we, was discussing earlier, there's a lot of businesses like the market I might be seeing around the market.

Tell the restaurants that are thriving downtown.

Downtown should be about the people.

Let the people come together and decide what should be downtown, not just a handful of individuals.

I would love to see a theater downtown.

I would love to see more shopping, places to go downtown.

I would love to see a goodwill or thrift store downtown.

It should be about what the community wants.

Well, who do you think is driving what's happening downtown now?

I was talking to a couple of city council people, and they said the two driving forces there to making decisions for the city of Rochester is the deputy mayor, not Malique.

Mitch, making decisions.

And there's a I don't want to give a Republican that's guiding what happens in the city of Rochester, not the people.

The deputy mayor.

Yes.

Council member Gruber.

Yes.

And a Republican.

Oh, and another one more I forgot.

the president of city council.

They decide from my understanding, and I could be wrong.

The city council people don't even sit together and meet and discuss things.

Who's the Republican who's driving the downtown?

I don't want to comment at this point.

Okay, but but okay, I'll let the council member Gruber respond.

But I don't know the Republican.

If you're going to ask me now, I'm not going to ask.

This is an imaginary room she's talking about.

I'm not sure, but not an imaginary room.

That's what's going on.

But and what you are saying is you want the more of the voice of the people, the voice, and what's happening with the voiceless.

Okay.

And the follow up to that before we let Mitch weigh in here is what do you think a future job base realistically looks like for the city?

I have been saying this for years, and everybody probably knows, and Louis has run for a lot of offices.

Yes, because all those offices, offices allow in Lewis to be an advocate for years I've said before.

a student can graduate high school with a diploma.

They also need to be equipped to have a skill.

So we all know when you get out of college, it's hard to find your job.

So if you have a skill, you can start your own business.

You can go into a company and and support yourself until your dreams come true.

So we need to have more opportunity for work.

Work that's fulfilling, not just something to do.

All right, Mitch Gruber, go ahead.

So the question about downtown, I think is an interesting one.

And I'm going to I'm going to focus on a on a particular achievement of the last several years that I think is, is interesting because it has been framed by several people, who are running for office as not an achievement.

But we for the first time have a fortune 500 company with a headquarters downtown Rochester five years ago had three fortune 500 companies Wegmans, Paychex and Constellation Brands, and none of them downtown.

We after a lot of work and work that frankly, I give a lot of credit to the Warren administration, to the Evans administration, to New York State, to a lot of different folks.

and of course, the Constellation Brands.

We now have a fortune 500 company downtown.

They renovated a building that was pretty much off line, or there wasn't a great plan for it and have made it, a really vibrant place that's attracting a lot of workers.

Oftentimes young workers.

I think a lot of people who run for office, who rightfully I think, have a, kind of slant about anti-development or anti-corporate interests, I think just sometimes take it too far.

At the end of the day, we, a city like Rochester is not going to thrive if we have all of our fortune 500 companies sitting in the suburbs and extracting resources, rather than investing in our downtown.

And so to me, it is, really a positive thing that we have Constellation Brands headquarters downtown.

We have a new, younger workforce coming in, and they're hopefully and should be a lot of kind of domino effects of that.

And frankly, the inner Loop North is the other really big opportunity to transform the landscape of downtown.

We have a chance to build not just the kind of housing, but also the kind of economic development opportunities for, smaller businesses to come downtown.

Green Spark is a is a huge, huge part of our economy.

Who again, that's a big company that has been there, has been headquartered in the suburbs and has plans to move downtown.

But I, I do not want, corporations running the city of Rochester.

I don't want a back.

backrooms smoke filled with decisions being made, which I think sometimes is.

That is the allegation.

But what I do want is the folks who have significant resources in Monroe County to invest in our city, and not just in tech parks in Webster.

I think that's incredibly important.

And we're making progress towards that end.

And I hope that some of these other projects, like the Inner Loop North, we have a chance to really build on that momentum.

And so I think some of what you're referring to, some of the criticism during the campaign season, as an example, your colleague on council, Mary Lucien, who's running for mayor, has called the constellation deal a sweetheart deal, which has its own connotation.

so, in your view, was the arrangement to get them downtown good for the city, good for the people?

Absolutely.

And I'll also share that the vast majority of the incentives for a company like Constellation Brands to move headquarters downtown comes from New York State and not from the city of Rochester.

But for our sake, I mean, again, this is this is this is, I think oftentimes made more complicated than it actually is.

The question that I'd want people to ask is, would you rather a company like Constellation Brands to be headquartered in Canandaigua and Victor, or to be headquartered in downtown Rochester?

And I'd be very surprised if the voters of this city would rather Constellation Brands be headquartered in Victor in Canandaigua, than in downtown Rochester.

I think it is ultimately a good thing to see more action, more feet on the street, more stuff happening, and the type of work that we had to do was honestly major, major work related to roadways and right of way and the kind of work that we need to do downtown anyways.

So let me follow up one other point with Mitch Gruber and a half and jump in on these points to to to your point about state dollars or leveraging partnerships where you can look at the corner of Maine and Clinton that the mayor referenced last Wednesday.

You can look at the convention center.

You can look at, a number of different sites where there's a lot the aqueduct, there's a lot going on.

And it is not always just city tax dollars.

this administration has prioritized leveraging state economic development dollars, sometimes federal dollars and what is not clear to me is if we had a council or if there was a, a different administration, that a different priorities could that the money leverage for those things, whether it's bringing constellation in, whether it's the aqueduct, whether it's Maine in Clinton, could you say, look, we're not going to take that money and use it there.

We're going to use it for a GBA program.

We're going to use it for, you know, Council member Lucien talked about a vision for downtown that is very different, that basically halts those projects and asks the state to redirect money instead to housing for people who have no income, housing for people who are desperate, housing people who need it, for drug rehabilitation or safe use sites or, overdose centers.

It's a very different vision.

And she said she acknowledged that that money is earmarked for economic development.

But she would ask differently that council should act differently, that the city should ask differently.

is it your view that that is even achievable, that that you could ask differently if you had different priorities?

And what do you make of some of those priorities that seem to be competing with some of the vision that you're offering there?

Well, first of all, just as a matter of legality, not all dollars are the same.

And so when you're when the city is granted capital dollars, it is largely to be able to not just spur economic development but create construction jobs and to ultimately down the line, create more taxable property.

Right?

I mean, that's part of what some of the investments in places like the inner loop, both sides of the inner loop are about is you're spending capital dollars, but you're creating long term, more taxable property, which is helping the city's bottom line.

Those capital dollars cannot be transferred to something like GBI.

There is no world where a capital dollars can be used for money to go directly to people.

They are.

They are money for capital projects, construction projects.

Is it possible that a different administration could say that they want that they have a different level of priorities for construction projects?

Sure, absolutely.

And we've seen that happen.

I mean, I've been on city council for two different mayors, and I've seen the executive branch have very different priorities as to how they want to channel state dollars.

but they cannot be used for program operational costs.

And the the claim that they can is it's just it's not there's, there's there's no accuracy with that.

I'll also share that a lot of this money is oftentimes borrowed.

So when we want to go out and bond for money.

And by the way our bond rating on city council is really, really strong.

The city of Rochester is really, really strong right now, in part because of our financial practices.

When we want to go borrow money, we can't borrow money for projects that are not capital projects.

We bond for capital.

We're not.

We don't bond for program operations.

And so we have to be really honest.

I've heard a lot of the a lot of the conversations you've had over the last couple of weeks, people have talked about where there's a will, there's a way.

And if we if we want to do something, we'll find a way to pay for it.

I just want to remind folks that we're dealing in a federal in a climate, or the federal government wants to cut $300 billion in Snap benefits and trillions in Medicaid.

We are not in a climate where our government that actually prints money.

The feds are giving more money to cities.

On the contrary, they're trying to suck up our money.

And we need to be very thoughtful and strategic about what we can actually pay for and how to pay for it.

And that's not easy work, but it is the work of a city council.

All right.

And so there's a lot there.

Go ahead.

basically I think the money should be used.

You know, how we support these large businesses coming in.

We need to support small business ownership so families can create generational wealth.

It's unfortunate that a lot of inner city men are on this street selling drugs from morning to evening.

They're entrepreneurs.

They need a business.

We need to take these individuals off the street, use them, teach them how to have their own business, find out what they have a passion about.

Forgive some of those charges that, they've accumulated as a result of crime.

Empower them to have their own business.

Have more dollars to help start up business.

The money that you have now, you can buy a sign for your business.

We need some money to help us, but actually buy a business.

Teach us how to run the business.

These big corporations already have a lot of infrastructure in place.

People in the city want to thrive.

They want to do better.

But we don't have the resources to be better.

But our budget is being allocated to people who already have big dollars, and that's unfortunate.

So when we come back from our only break, I'll ask the candidates a little bit more, about different proposals that you've heard throughout, administrations.

This is an administration that piloted a GBI program with some federal dollars, and there are some candidates who running for city offices who want to see a permanent plan for that.

We'll talk about that.

and certainly we'll talk about the other issues facing the city.

Rochester was in the national news when Tom Homan was in town recently.

And, there's a lot talk about there in regards to policing, what the federal government is saying, a federal lawsuit, and a lot more.

The candidates who are with us for city council this hour include and Louis and Mitch Gruber, two of the 15 candidates.

we also had Tanya Noel Stevens, who was scheduled to join us this hour, but Tanya Noel Evans, Tanya Noel Stevens, team notified us that she has decided to step away from the campaign.

Certainly.

we respect that.

And so we've got two candidates in studio for city council.

We'll come right back on connections.

I'm Evan Dawson Friday and the next connections.

My colleague Gino Fanelli is hosting the program in the first hour, a proposal to ban reselling of high priced tickets to music shows.

Those who want to ban the resale say the system is abusive to music fans and abusive to the artists.

We'll talk about it in our second hour.

The federal proposal to ban taxes on tipped wages.

We'll talk to you Friday.

Support for your public radio station comes from our members and from Sarah's Garden Center in the Village of Brockport, dedicated to sharing knowledge about the art of growing plants for over 45 years, with onsite gardens to stroll, blooms to breathe in, and staff to provide gardening advice.

More at Sara's Garden center.com.

This is connections.

I'm Evan Dawson.

The primary election day is Tuesday, June 14th, and early voting starts next Saturday.

I'm sorry.

June 24th.

Tuesday, June 24th is primary election day.

Next Saturday, June 14th is the start of early voting.

It runs through the 22nd.

The Monroe County Board of Elections website has all the information you'll need if you want to vote early in this particular primary.

The City of Rochester has piloted a G-b-i, a guaranteed basic income program, and the question in front of the city now is, is that a program that you want to try to maintain and not using federal dollars, but paying for on an annual basis?

Is that something that should be the responsibility entirely of the federal government and different sources of funding?

and, Lewis, if you're on city council, would you support a GBI program?

I would support a GBI program with conditions, and I'm pretty sure this one already has it.

However, you can't be on that GBI program forever.

You have to have a plan of what do you want to do?

Do you want to go to trade school?

do you want to go to college?

Because I have always believed in my life.

If you give a person a fish, they can eat for day.

If you teach them how to fish, they can feed themselves and their family for a lifetime.

A lot of people think inner city people want just one handout.

Want want freebies.

We don't.

We want empowerment.

We want to learn how to get it ourselves.

Unfortunately, because our schools broke down, a lot of people don't have that wit about how to save your money to get a home, how to plan for your future, how to tie to your church, and then tied to yourself.

You can't stay on this stipend forever.

And then we need a check and balance.

What are you spending the money on?

Are you spending it on paying your rent and then the money that you have left over?

What are you doing with that?

We cannot.

We cannot keep people on that type of program forever, which has to be limitations.

But I think it's a good program.

But has to be about empowerment, not a freebie.

Okay.

Mitch Gruber, back in 2018 or so, I had a chance to meet Michael Tubbs, who is the mayor of Stockton, who was the really the originator of Gvi at the local level?

remarkable guy.

remarkable success in his in his Gvi program.

And he ultimately, after he left office, started a group called mayors for a Guaranteed Income.

I encourage then Mayor Warren to join, and we have been on this path ever since.

But the whole idea of mayors for a Guaranteed income was having cities demonstrate that they could do it with in small pockets, so that the actual entities that have the ability to print money will do it.

It was the federal government, the federal government, and although the state can't print money, they're pretty good at coming up with new gigantic revenue sources.

seems that it seems that they do it every year.

But cities we don't have that opportunity.

So bottom line is GBI works.

And for anyone who's a doubter about GBI, I would point you to several different studies.

Good peer reviewed journal studies that show how it does work, how it does, how people really, find more gainful employment, among other things.

I'm a believer in GBI, but I'm not going to sit here and sugarcoat it and tell you what other candidates on this show have told you, which is if there's a will, there's a way we'll find a way to pay for it.

Cities cannot pay for a guaranteed basic income.

We cannot.

There is no there is no world where we all of a sudden have that budgetary discretion.

And we have to pass an on-time balanced budget every year with very, very finite revenue sources.

And there is almost no way that we could run a GBI program.

We can and should keep pushing the state to help us with this because, God, I'd love to know where all the money from the from the UN sports gambling revenues are coming into.

I'd love to know where all the revenues from cannabis are coming in, because it's not coming in to cities like ours yet.

There's lots of opportunities for us to push them.

But I also want to take a slight step back and just tell you that I've been on your show to talk about this before.

I think sometimes we get all caught up in the jargon of new programs like GBA, the snap program, aka Food Stamps was or is I should say, one of the most impactful anti-hunger anti-poverty programs in the country.

It is basically a version of GBA, although instead of giving people unrestricted cash, it lets you spend it on pretty much anything in the grocery store.

And we are watching right now as the feds are proposing to cut it by $300 billion.

I, I applaud the the people who are running for office who think GBA is the most important subject because it is their job to go push and advocate for the things they think are the most important.

But the idea that given the climate that we're in right now, in June 2025, that a city like Rochester being able to both watch snap benefits get cut and start a brand new GBA program, it doesn't feel like real life to me.

So based on some of what and said, let me follow up with a question for you, and I want to hear what and says about this and says with GBA with restrictions and would want GBA with restrictions that people want to work, that you want to help people on the path toward working, that you'd want to know how people are spending the money, that you'd want some supervision of spending.

That's similar to some of the argument about snap, to say nothing of the cuts, which we should talk about here soon.

I mean, on this program on a separate day.

But part of the argument of snap is it's it's too broad that that you shouldn't be able to buy sota that, that there should be an agreement that you ought to be buying healthy food, that there should be more supervision.

Do you think there should be more supervision, whether it's snap g-b-i how people are spending money, etc.?

I don't I think that's the wrong conversation to have.

The idea of talking about supervision is the right conversation to have.

If we actually have money flowing into these programs right now, we have a program that is on life support.

And the biggest way they're going to try to cut the fat, the federal, the House Republicans are going to try to cut food stamps is by asking for a state match, which is going to be billions and billions of dollars that the state is only going to be able to pay for by taking it away from somewhere else.

So, you know, I'd love to come back on the show and talk about snap in a more in-depth way.

And I think that if there was honesty at the federal level and talking about restrictions of products, that would be one thing.

But that's not what they really want.

They want to take the money away.

And the idea that local elected officials in that environment are going to talk about creating a new Gvi program without being able to tell you how we're going to pay for it.

Just where there's a will, there's a way doesn't feel like a good use of our time when we need to be collectively fighting against the Trump administration.

But even if there's JB, I do agree with N that it should be restricted and there should be monitoring of how the money is being spent.

There should be monitoring, but I don't.

I believe the good guy programs are about not having restrictions.

They are, in fact, about letting people spend the money on the places where they're feeling the most pain points.

But there should be monitoring being done so that we know how it's being spent and we can report back.

Okay.

And, it was just brought up, how are we going to pay for Gvi program again, empowerment.

These individuals, I'm assuming, went did something productive with their lives to better themselves.

So we gave them basically free money.

Now we need to set up a program to make GBI like a loan.

The people who received it need to put money back in the pot so other individuals can take advantage of a GBI program and it can keep flowing, not just keep giving free money away.

Okay.

As gun now how are you helping other people?

It should be alone.

A small loan.

Okay.

Go ahead.

Mitch, I just wanted to talk about one.

So one thing that I think cities have done and can do in this vein, is something that we're planning right now in the city of Rochester, which is a child savings account.

So it's not GBI it's different.

That was pointed out to me very clearly the other day by someone, but we are planning right now to give every stude, every child upon entering kindergarten a savings account and then with multiple milestones along the way, we can keep adding dollars to the savings account.

Saint Paul, Minnesota was a place that that seemed to really pilot this, and the results have been tremendous.

It does not have the same kind of, cost or expense, right?

We're not talking about a monthly allocation of hundreds of dollars.

We're talking about probably an annual allocation of hundreds of dollars.

It is not going to end poverty in and of itself.

I'm not going to suggest that it will.

But what it shows is it is it helps people, it helps families, not just the students, but families, think about banking and become bankable in different ways and find and using financial services in different ways.

And then upon high school graduation, the, the kids have a pretty decent nest egg to go be able to use some money as it as they enter to the adult world.

We are planning to pilot a program like that now, and I know that for a lot of the people who believe GBI is the only way, forward there, they are probably going to say that a child savings account is not is is too incremental.

It's not nearly enough.

again, we really do have to be mindful about the things that we can't afford, the things that are responsible for a city of Rochester's size and our annual budget gap, which is in the tens of millions of dollars every year and still at the same time, chip away at these problems by demonstrating projects that work.

We did it with GPI with Arpa dollars.

That was great.

We're going to have a final report soon, and I think the child savings account will really make some inroads towards that as well.

So let me turn to an issue that put Rochester in the national headlines.

I'll start with.

And, Tom Homan, the head of Ice, comes to Rochester at a time when the Trump administration decides to sue the city of Rochester, in an attempt to, in the language of the lawsuit, strip the city of its sanctuary city status because Tom Homan and the Trump administration say that local police should be assisting federal officers, federal agents with detention, with possible deportation.

and when the Rochester Police Department worked with federal agents, Tom Homan says, look, city leaders were too critical, the mayor was too critical.

And that that is not the way to support police.

That's not the way to support law enforcement.

So he comes here, he's invited by the Locust Club, and the Trump administration is suing the city of Rochester.

And do you think the city has behaved appropriately in this way?

Do you want to see any changes to how the city is dealing with the issue of not only immigration, but undocumented immigration and working with the federal government?

Our sanctuary city status was established in 1986 and then reaffirmed in 2017.

And I can see, that it had some merits.

However, things have changed.

There's a lot of crime on our streets.

People are coming into our community that are hurting our community.

It has been shown that local budgets are hurting because the people who do come in to our community, we have to house them and we need to house people who are homeless.

We have to we provide them with food stamps.

I've talked to several people who said I just missed the food stamp cut off line, and I can't even get food stamps.

We need to if we're going to allow people to come in when they're here with the sanctuary status, we need to put, provisions in that.

All the resources that we gave them, they need to pay it back to our local government.

Like I said, I work in the schools every day.

It's it's wonderful to see that the group of individuals that have come in are getting a lot of support.

But what happened to our kids who've been here forever, who can't read and need their support?

Sanctuary city status is taxing our resources, and we just need to be real about it.

As far as the police, like I said, I work for the Sheriff's department 16 years as a rehabilitation counselor.

I worked in the police department as a victim service worker.

We need to support our police.

We didn't know I was in there, so I don't know the particulars of what went on, but I thought it was a brotherhood that if a police officer is in trouble, then your brotherhood come and help them.

From my understanding, some of the individuals that were taken out of the van were criminals.

So it's a big fuss about protecting people who were criminals.

I do understand that because other criminals who violate laws in Rochester, primarily people of color, we throw the book at them.

I just don't understand.

I understand the basic concept of helping people.

But what about the people who are sitting, waiting, paid their fees to come to Rochester legally and can't get in yet?

So you're saying undocumented immigrants are a drain on local resources?

It appears that they are.

Yes.

Okay.

And you think the Trump administration is essentially in the right here saying that Rochester?

I'm saying go ahead.

We need to rethink our sanctuary city policy, okay.

And if we're going to allow that to happen, the individual who are basically criminals, because they broke the law coming in here and we're giving them good money to stay here.

We need to get some of those resources back.

All right.

Mitch Gruber, first, I just want to close loop on that last conversation just with one comment, okay?

If any of the candidates who are proposing expanded GBI can demonstrate a way to pay for it, I'd be super interested in looking at it and trying to and and getting around to supporting it.

I just have yet to see someone demonstrate how what it would cost or how they would pay for it.

And your question about sanctuary cities?

I couldn't disagree more with Ann.

I think that the the person, first of all, the person who was pulled out of the van in the march, whatever the end of whatever the date was at the end of March, had no criminal background, was not determined since then to have a criminal background.

And we know that so much of what Ice is doing on a for for deportation is not, in fact, targeting people who have criminal backgrounds.

So I am incredibly proud of our sanctuary city policy.

And I also want to talk about what it means for just a second.

It is very explicitly about making sure that law enforcement is not engaging with it's not helping Ice or these other agencies unless unless big, big bold line, unless they are in some type of, situation of danger or that requires help.

Anyone who watched the video from that March event knows that these Ice officers officers were not under duress.

There was no violence.

There was no threat.

In fact, they were twiddling their thumbs and asking RPD officers to do the work.

And there were about eight RPD officers there.

I can't imagine there's any single person in the city of Rochester, regardless of how they feel about the police, regardless of how they feel about the Trump administration or anything.

We are happy with the fact that eight officers were standing around to take someone who is not a violent criminal out of their car.

That is simply not a good use of our limited resources.

I get complaints every day from people in this community about slow response times from 911.

Our policy is such that our officers should be focused on serving the people of this city and we should be focused on our issues.

If the Trump administration wants to do immigration enforcement, there's not much that we can do about it, but we don't need to be participating in with our limited resources.

So I think we're doing everything right.

I also want to give a big tip of the cap.

I don't think this this is set enough by people, but to the City of Rochester's law department, we filed our answer to the Trump Sanctuary City lawsuit just a few days or last week, and it is a public document.

I would love for Z to make sure they're sharing it out.

It is a beautifully written document.

It is strong.

It demonstrates that we are on the side of right.

I personally have worked with that with the NYC crew several times, or the ACLU several times in the last few weeks, helping them connect with other refugee serving organizations to make sure that they are working on a kind of concurrent process to demonstrate how important this policy is for our city.

We are on the right side of history here, and we need to not get distracted by doing all sorts of, new or different things or making changes.

We are right in our policy.

We need to stand strong in it, and we need to let the courts demonstrate that we're right.

Now, what about Ann's point?

She thinks that undocumented immigrants are a drain on city resources.

I, I do not have any data to to suggest that that's true.

What I know is that a number of people that I know personally who have, I don't know that I don't know them personally, but I know people who, who are working with people who have been taken away by ice, who are folks who are here to contribute to society and not to be a drain on society.

So I ultimately believe that we have a bigger immigration problem to figure out at the federal level.

no one seems to be working on that issue and turning our country into a, a place with mechanical mass deportations is shameful and not something that our city should stand by and watch.

go ahead.

And I just want to say something because I talked to a county legislator, and I'm not going to mention that individual's name because, and I was told that people are coming here saying change in their, their, ID saying that they're from Puerto Rico and they're not.

That to the comment, how do we know that the individuals who were in the car until you ran a record weren't dangerous criminals?

From my understanding, I could be wrong.

But the media said that the one woman, the one man, had been beating his wife.

That's wrong.

So we're sanctioning a woman beater.

We are getting.

We have people in the city of Rochester that need help.

They can't even get help.

I was just talking to a lady.

She said that she was trying to get help, but it was only for workers taking information for me.

And you had to call on the phone and that close.

What about the people who live in Rochester legally?

Taxpayers that need help.

Okay.

Because we're going to run out of time about 30s or less.

If you could and is saying she's heard these things about the people were pulled out of the van.

Everybody who lives in Rochester who needs help needs to be supported by their government, city, county, state, etc.

I'm not disagreeing with Anna around that.

The sanctuary city policy is about the role of the police department and law enforcement and federal immigration searches, and I do not believe that anybody, including Ann in her heart, wants our limited law enforcement resources, wants eight officers to be standing around for a traffic stop when they're not responding to potentially other 911 calls that are happening.

That's not what I want.

That's not what the people of Rochester want.

And that's why our policy is strongly to stand on it.

And the issue was it was not about was blown up.

That was eight officers standing around addressing this issue.

Yes, that is wrong.

However, my point that I keep making our resources are being drained and the people of Rochester who need it.

I was arrested last year at the Lilac Festival for standing on grass.

Come on now.

Six officers responded to a call because and Lewis was standing on grass.

All right, Donna, our last 90s.

So if you can take about 40s apiece.

Everyone knows the conversation recently about the PAB.

Just question if you're on council and if the city loses its appeal, which could take months.

We'll see.

Would you want to see the $3.6 million budget for PAB continue if they don't have disciplinary power or investigative or unitary power?

And I was briefly part of the planning process of PAB.

And when we had zoom meetings, I did say on the zoom meetings because I went and compared the job descriptions and it was overlap.

It's just like the fast ferry was a good idea, but it was not planned out or implemented properly.

We did not have everything in place.

So with the PAB unfortunate, it's a great idea.

We need people plete police accountability, but everything was not put in place and now our budget people are being paid good salaries and I'm sure they're doing good work, but they have no sanctioning power.

Yeah, at this point that money needs to be pulled back to we can work out the tweaks okay.

And we're going to lose time here.

We got a fast ferry reference.

That's been a while.

Go ahead.

We need to see the appeal through.

That's the that's the the first point.

And the second point is if in fact we lose the appeal, there is no world where the PAB has a 3.6 billion, $1 million budget with such stripped powers, we're going to have to really, really look ourselves in the mirror collectively and make some hard decisions.

Okay.

Do we have any idea how long the appeal will take?

Probably mean months.

I wish I could speak for the courts, but I can't.

Okay.

I want to thank the candidates, for being here today and answering questions at length.

It's a great opportunity to hear them at length.

And Lewis is a candidate for Rochester City Council.

I would love for you to find out more information about and on Facebook, and Lewis for City Council at Large for more information.

Thank you for being here and thank you for having me.

And I know just want to say I know you had to rearrange some of your stuff.

I did and you made it work.

I made it and I want to thank you.

Thank you for doing this.

Mitch Gruber, candidate for Rochester City Council website.

Mitch, for rochester.com.

Thank you for being here as well.

Thanks for having me.

Happy pride month everyone.

And the election coming up.

Tuesday, June.

It is June 24th.

That is primary election day.

Early voting starts next Saturday, the 14th of June from all of us at connections.

Thanks for listening.

Thanks for watching.

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