From WXXI news.

This is connections I'm Evan Dawson.

Our connection this hour was made last August in Rochester when a woman named Shea was listening to the radio.

She is a grandmother who happened to be listening to an interview with Brian Lewis, the executive director of the Rock The Future Alliance.

He was joined in that interview by the Rochester City School District's director of early childhood education and they were talking about something that she probably didn't expect to hear.

Shea's granddaughter has significant challenges, and at the age of four, she wasn't able to use the bathroom on her own.

And yet she listened to the guests, explained that children don't need to be potty trained to attend pre-K. Shea's family story was featured in the forthcoming Rock the Future State of Our Children report card.

We were able to review an advance copy before this conversation.

Shea is quoted in the report as saying, quote, they actually have professionals to help potty train your child.

And I said, oh God, this is exactly what we need.

End quote.

Within a few days, that family was filling out paperwork to enroll Shea's granddaughter in pre-K. She later said, quote, A lot of people are embarrassed about asking for help.

Hearing Doctor Thomas and Mr. Lewis on the radio.

It was like they were welcoming us with open arms that gave us hope and quote the new report card from the Rock.

The Future Alliance offers some glimpses of success stories, like Shea's granddaughter, who is in a much better place now with her education.

But the report card also offers some rather grim data on how many kids desperately need help of some kind.

We're going to dig into the numbers this hour.

Here's one.

What percentage of Rochester eighth graders are proficient in math?

It's 3.8% at the latest count, and that number is actually gone up a bit.

As you heard yesterday on this program, 40% of Rochester's children live in poverty.

Rock the future has set a goal of putting 11,000 kids on a path to upward mobility.

The report makes it undeniable that the pandemic took some steam out of the early efforts.

In January of 2025.

Kids are struggling many ways, but our guests have ideas about how to change that this hour.

We are not only streaming where you expect to find us, I think.

Have you been listening to connections for years?

But we are streaming on YouTube every day.

It's nice to be on the Sexy News YouTube page, so if you're watching there, hello, you can join the chat there and we'll have a lot of your feedback coming up this hour.

Welcome to Brian Lewis, the executive director of the Rock the Future Alliance.

Welcome back to the program.

Thanks for being here.

Thank you.

Ivan.

Stephen Johnson is CEO of exceptional.

Seaborn, welcome.

Thank you for being here.

Thanks for having me.

Evan.

Tell us what your organization does.

Well, exceptional is a charter sector support organization that provides, not only the common application for all the charter schools, but also, help with literacy and training for those schools as well.

And we do it in conjunction with partners.

Thank you for making the time for this program today.

Jenny's pause with this in studio co-chair of the Rock the Future Alliance is parent Engagement Collaborative Action Network.

Welcome.

Thanks for being with us.

Thank you.

And on the line with us is Doctor David Kirkland, a keynote speaker at the upcoming event on Friday.

This week, he's an author.

the book that so many people have talked about is called A Search Past Silence The Literacy of Young Black Men.

Doctor Kirkland, thank you for being on the line with us.

Thank you for having me.

So we're going to be talking about literacy.

We're going to be talking about where those numbers are.

We're going to get into some of the numbers of the report card in just a moment here.

Let me just back up a bit.

You know, Brian, we we talk every year now about this about this report card.

And why don't you tell the community what the goal is of pulling this all together in the first place?

Yeah.

So, you know, the Messiah tribe have this greeting that, they give to each other to say, how are the children?

And the response to that is all the children are.

Well.

And so this report card is not only a snapshot of where our children collectively are, as a region, as Rochester, but it's also a guidepost.

It has strategies, it has best practices, it has solutions that have been co-developed by system partners like exceptional, but also by parents and youth in the community.

And so we're both providing an assessment, but we're also trying to give some inspiration and make sure that folks understand that these are the things we need to do to partner, to work together, to make sure that our children achieve.

So I think part of my job is to be direct about where the numbers are and to talk to all of our guests about it, but also to provide a little bit of context.

And some of that context is that there's no reasonable person who would look at where you've all started and think, well, that's about a one year project, or that's a three year goal or that's even a five year goal at the same time.

What's realistic?

I mean, because when we get into the numbers, listeners and viewers are going to hear them and they're pretty grim at times.

What's realistic for for making the kind of achievements that you want to see?

Yes, is really important.

And, you know, there's a there's a discipline to this.

It's a practice.

You know, we want a baseline where the numbers are now.

And so our report card does that.

But then we want to set ambitious but achievable goals.

And we've also done that.

And so when we do that we do that as an alliance.

You know we have our partners like exceptional like the YMCA of Greater Rochester also just joined us this year, but also city government, county government and parents and youth as well, saying, you know, we we are not satisfied with where we are now.

We want to put an additional 11,000.

And that's the goal that we've landed on together young people.

And what we say that what we mean is that's 11,000 young people that are kindergarten ready.

That's 11,000 young people that are reading at grade level.

By third grade, that's 11,000 young people that are eighth grade math proficient.

And so we're breaking it down, not just in terms of percentages, but also by the numbers.

This is what we, as Rochester, need to do to make sure our children are achieving and having success.

Well, Janice, as a parent who is, you know, the co-chair of the Rock the Future Alliance Parent Engagement Collaborative Action Network, it's a big job to try to link parents and families to the decision makers, to the structures here.

And can you describe a little bit about how you're doing that and how you got involved in the first place?

well, I would say the organizations and other partners are welcoming to parents input and parent support, so that makes it easy.

We do have a lot of motivated parents within the city who really want to see each and every one of our kids succeeding.

And so when you have a platform that allow parents to come to the table and have a strong voice and able to use that voice to make, transformative change, it's easier for parents to come together, link together, and do the work that needs to be done.

Are you satisfied?

Is the wrong word with where things are, but are you satisfied with the direction, with some of the ways that this alliance is working together towards this?

maybe not the right word, but yes, we are motivated.

And so to be able to, have the support, I would say, it allows the parents to really come in and deep and, dive into the work to really make that change.

So yes, we are satisfied, but we're hopeful that we can, strive for each and every year to do better.

And so, as well, you know, going along and joining our goal is to always push for more and more.

And so having this number allow for us to see something that is attainable.

the official event that rock the futures hosting is on Friday.

Is that right?

That's right.

Yeah, it's on Friday.

And so you have Doctor David Kirkland coming in a moment.

We're going to kind of dig into some of the work that Doctor Kirkland has done in regards to understanding literacy, understanding why certain approaches haven't really worked, understanding stereotypes and what happens there.

Why did you want to bring Doctor Kirkland in on Friday?

Well, Doctor Kirkland is a foremost expert in literacy and especially for populations like those affected in Rochester.

And so you mentioned his previous book, A Search Past Silence.

He actually has a forthcoming book called Pedagogy The Black Child, which are really excited about where he focuses on dignity in education.

but Doctor Kirkland is one of the leading experts in culturally relevant and responsive standards.

In fact, he he architected and authored the state standards for New York State on call to response to that.

So he's he's one of the leading voices in this field.

Doctor Kirkland, before we kind of work through some of the, for example, some of the Ili numbers, that those are the kind of things that get the public's attention or really kind of raise the, the community wide concern, but just understanding the dynamics of how we teach.

Are we doing it better in New York State as far as you know?

Are we doing it better in Rochester?

Are we doing it better as a society?

In your own sort of professional opinion about how we address literacy?

For starters?

Well, I think when we talk about vulnerable students and vulnerable student populations, we've struggled.

We've struggled across the board.

And I think we this is a global struggle with something that we're trying to figure out.

We know a lot about human development.

We know how to teach kids.

The question is who do we regard as human and how can we begin to shift narratives that have been static about vulnerable populations?

And the thing that, you know, I enjoy about the state of our children report card is that it sets off a vision for a future where all 11,000 young people in our care are on a path to success, a future where we have the power to invent it.

Right.

There's a a saying by an American computer scientist, Alan Kay says the best way to predict the future is to invent it.

And the question is, it's a question about boldness and possibility, less about science than it is about aspiration.

If we get stuck in a narrative of, you know, kind of like descriptive quantitative statistics, I believe that we'll be discouraged from what we can do.

We know also the best way to predict the future beyond, you know, inventing it is joining each other and doing it together.

The African proverb says, if you want to go fast, go alone.

If you want to go far, go together.

And I think that that is a theoretical approach that we have to apply to the problem of education in the education of vulnerable people across New York State, and certainly within Rochester.

So let me give a little bit of snapshot of the numbers with that caveat that David Kirkland just gave us, which is that, you know, the numbers maybe tell you a story and we should listen.

But there is a lot of context that matters here.

That's not me.

Again, that's not me running interference for a district or community.

That isn't where it needs to be, but some of the context.

And I'll start with math as an example.

So I mentioned off the top here that the math numbers, they kind of pop to me.

Then again, I thought when I was growing up, I really wasn't a math kid, you know?

So I don't know what it means.

The difference between, hey, you know, kids have different strengths.

Maybe not a raise a math kid versus, okay, here's in the most recent data for the academic year in Rochester.

Eighth grade math proficiency.

All students, 3.8%, which is up from the previous year, 1.5%.

So it's more than doubled.

And it's still, you know, it's 3.8.

Well, I mean, that's 1 in 25 get less than 1 in 25 kids proficient in math.

So let me let me just start with math.

When I hear that number Brian, what what did you think?

When you see numbers like that.

It's concerning.

It's concerning, you know, but it's it's something that, the students have also told us is concerning.

It's something the parents have also told us is concerning.

And so, you know, as as Doctor Kirkland mentioned, it's not like there's a status around this.

It's not like there's, an acceptance or embrace of where we are.

we're being futuristic.

You know, we collectively, as a community, have decided that we are not going to stop it where we are, but we want to stretch to where we know we can be.

what about you?

Ciaran Johnson, CEO of Ed.

Exceptional.

That math proficiency number of 3.8%.

What does it mean to you?

So first and foremost, it means 96% are not proficient in mathematics at eighth grade level.

now, admittedly, my my undergrad degree is in applied mathematics, so I'm biased toward mathematics.

But I must say this I don't believe we fix the math problem until we fix the literacy problem.

And so we have to be tunnel vision of that in that way.

Literacy is the foundation of learning.

And so if we deal with that in dog fashion, then we'll see math scores go up as well.

I think that that's a really interesting point.

what do you think, Janice?

Poor about that.

Just that math number.

What stands out to you?

it is a low number, but I think, as we work towards educating our parents about the issue, then they're able to come to the table and, you know, work with the scholars to kind of get that level up.

So it's about education and awareness.

If we don't know what the problem is, we can address the problem.

Yeah.

Doctor Kirkland, when we think about, these these numbers, these scores, there's math, there's Ella, there's kindergarten readiness.

We'll talk about all of those.

If we do them in silos.

We don't really have the opportunity to kind of connect, as Seaborn Johnson just told us, the value of knowing that literacy affects math scores.

do you want to talk a little bit about that, about the way we should be contextualizing some of that?

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

so when when we look at math scores, when one thing that I think is powerful that you said is that math scores in Rochester are going to one of the biggest gaps that we see across education, particularly education within vulnerable communities, is this crisis of optimism.

We believe, and we've clung to this narrative, that failure, you know, is static, that failure is something that we cannot change.

And yet our young people are proving us wrong every time that their their numbers are going up, which means that they can increase even more if it went up, you know, 100% last year can go up 100% this year and we can have 6% in the next year.

We can have 12%.

There's a possibility deficit when it comes to the education of our babies.

And that's what we have to cling to to me.

What the report says is, is that we recognize that we have a long way to go, yet we can get there together.

Now, what does this say about literacy?

What does it say about math?

It's a recognition that there is a need that's been entrusted to us, and it's up to us to grab hands and do the things that we need to do in education and beyond it together.

So, listeners, if you want to join the conversation this hour, a lot of ways to do that.

We mentioned the YouTube chat.

If you want to do that, it's, the phone number to call.

If you want to call the program toll free, it's 844295 talk.

(844) 295-8255.

It's 2636.

And if you call from Rochester 2639994 or email the program connections@wxxi.org.

All right.

I'm looking at kindergarten readiness.

the latest kindergarten readiness numbers.

All students, 45.5%.

Brian, generally, what does it mean to be kindergarten ready?

So, in in Rochester, we use the recap report, which is, administered by our partners at the Children's Institute.

And so they have a comprehensive assessment that includes, early childhood screens, developmental screens, to make sure that when a six year old enters kindergarten here in Rochester, they are kindergarten ready.

So that 45% means that they've passed those metrics of all those screens.

And I'm thinking about what Seaborn Johnson was telling us.

So that means 55% not kindergarten ready.

They may be going to kindergarten, not kindergarten ready.

And then what happens?

And so that means that kindergarten teachers have the added burden of lifting kids up to their appropriate grade level in order to, to be on level of their peers.

So it is paramount.

And this is why I'm just so happy with the work we're doing.

with Rockford Future Alliance is paramount that, charter school, kindergarten, first grade, second grade, they are pairing with pre-K, education teachers to make sure that the curriculum that's given in pre-K is in alignment with what you're going to be going in kindergarten.

I think only then, when the two of them working together, that you'll find some great results.

Okay.

Any, Ginny's paw, anything you want to add to, 45% kindergarten ready?

What do you think when you see that number?

I think that's a good number.

It's a good start.

We're on the right path.

But then again, as a parent, if you know that your child is making the getting ready and you have that support and you know what to look for, you're able to actually do what it takes to get that child to the level that they need to be at.

So is a team approach is not just, you know, a one person, fix for this and I'm Brian Time.

Brian Lewis, I want to ask you a little bit about, a part of the report that I just want to make sure I understand this.

There's a section in which you talk about the RCS renewing efforts to fill every pre-K seat.

That's right.

Yeah.

And so I'm going to read from this and then I want to ask you, you know, how we're doing with this, sir?

from your report, thanks to a year round recruitment and advocacy campaign raised, has made significant improvement in enrollment compared to prior years.

This is pre-K. That's right.

and so then you have the goals that were set for this school year 2425.

That's right.

So fill all preschool seats by October 2nd.

Did that happen?

yes.

Yes.

Well, yes it did.

And and that goal was set by our partners at early childhood, Rcsi doctor Eva Thomas and her team in collaboration with other partners in the community.

And the answer is yes.

Okay.

Attendance outreach for three and four year old students, with chronic absenteeism.

How's that going?

We're making some progress with chronic absenteeism.

Right.

And so again, the goal here is to baseline, where we are with chronic absenteeism in our community.

And and as Doctor Kirkland mentioned, this is not only a Rochester specific issue.

We see chronic absenteeism as a challenge, especially post-Covid across the nation.

but we are seeing some gains in our chronic absences numbers and seeing them reduced preschool and kindergarten vertical alignment teacher meetings.

Do we know if those are happening?

Doctor Thomas and her team do.

And so unfortunately, we did not bring them on the show today, but they will be able to share that information.

They've been cautious.

But we'll learn more Friday.

Yeah for sure.

Okay.

And then, encouraging principals to have a kindergarten readiness day at every elementary school.

Anything you want to add there?

that as far as I'm aware from Doctor Thomas's, sharing and her partnership that that work is continuing to progress, which is really exciting.

Sabrina, you're nodding along.

Do you want to add something there?

Well, it's vitally important right now, again, not to engage in binary conversation, but right now, 40% of every kindergarten seat is a charter school seat.

We are, invested fully in what goes on in pre-K. And it is to our interests to, to the to the city's interest.

If our Ccsd is doing those things that Brian is talking about now, we are we applaud that.

And charter schools must do the same thing.

You must make sure that you engage with pre-K environments to make sure that you're getting the best quality student and provide support for those who lag.

And so I think we have that in common.

Whether you're talking to a charter, it's our kids.

Can I say also having, you know, the kindergarten readiness rate is a lagging indicator.

So what's known as a lagging indicator.

So we're always kind of looking at a view shot of the past to see where our where our kindergarten ready students are.

But there are certain leading indicators that are predictive of that lack of lagging indicators such as, preschool enrollment, headstart enrollment.

I heard you had ABC on the on the program yesterday.

Yeah, they're a really critical partner.

And so we know and the data tells us not only Rochester but all over the country.

If you can enroll your child in headstart.

pre-K or any kind of congregate setting where they're getting those, those skills and the supports that Jesus was talking about, you are more likely to have a child this kindergarten ready.

She needs to parent generally.

Again, every household is different.

Every family is different.

Are you comfortable that parents know about the opportunities for pre-K for headstart that are out there?

Are they utilizing those opportunities?

I think there's more awareness of the opportunities that are available.

But then again, when you look at transportation and accessibility to those programs with those support, I think parents are able to access that, those programs a little more, frequently or often now that is out there.

So again, it's just a push to get parents to understand that, yes, kids can be in school by three and four.

They don't have to meet all the metrics or the standards, but if they're in those seats, then we're able to, team up with partners and other organizations and stuff to get them ready.

So when they are in kindergarten, they have developed some skills or they at that benchmark, in a moment, we're going to get to those Ela numbers.

and we'll talk about what they mean.

I'm sure.

Doctor Kirkland, we have a lot to add in regards to how literacy is taught and where we are right now.

Let me grab a phone call.

Shirley in Rochester wants to join the conversation.

Hi, Shirley.

Go ahead.

Hi.

Thank you for taking my call.

I want to ask Janiece.

What kinds of resources are available to you to do your job as a parent?

in this work, decades ago, I was the coordinator for something called the Union of Parents, and we were trying to establish a citywide group of parents to, to be a voice at the table, as you said.

So I'm wondering what kind of resources are available to you.

Do you have a team that you work with?

Do you have a budget?

Do you have staff or something to help you do your work?

Well?

Well, primarily as PCA member will primarily station we track the future.

However, there is, an alliance about what the future has with over 15 organizations.

So each and every one of those organizations play a role in, what we do as PDM members.

So they're there for support.

When we have questions or we have suggestions, the alliance is able to take that information and work within the individual organization to also do the work.

And so I just want to make sure I understand.

So I understand that you have at the at the Rock Alliance, has connections with other organizations.

Do you as a representative have materials, a budget, a team available to help you reach out and engage and inform other parents across the district?

Yes.

Correct.

Yeah.

There's a there's a family and community engagement team of backbone staff.

And so the backbone are the full time professional staff that support our parents.

But the parents are really leading and yeah, the parents, we pay stipends to our parents.

We make sure that they have childcare.

we make sure that they have their other material needs met so they can really focus on the leadership.

And they do also, be budgeting.

We have to story budgeting as well.

So there's there's a key role that parents play in leading this work.

All right.

Thank you very much.

Shirley, before you go, can I just ask you what the parent union experience you had?

What did you what stood out to you?

I mean, it it clearly, you know, you were concerned enough to want to get that parent voice.

And I wonder what you know, what's top of mind for you to make sure that they have that voice in 2025?

I think that there have to be ways for parents to to connect with each other, because there's a wealth of knowledge, experience and information available among parents.

And so that's why I'm curious as to how, Janice is able to engage parents.

So that's what stands out to me, that there's a need for parents to come together, to hear each other, to get information, to resolve problem.

without a lot of, you know, outside assistance, if you will.

Yeah.

And I would add, we have about, 50 parents that are part of Pekin and they come from all walks of life, all background of all experiences.

So, were able to really utilize their experiences.

And what they have gone through.

These are parents who have gone through the system, have kids in elementary school all the way up to high school.

So we are able to utilize their skills in different aspects of the work.

Some parents who are more into the elementary, scholars might be on, one of our subcommittees, which is the whole child network.

and then we have parents who are, in high school who are working on the high school team.

So it's a collaboration with parents who are in different spaces.

I want to say to listeners, you're going to be able to see this report Friday.

We had publicly released on Friday.

I think that's right.

It also be live stream the event last week last year.

So so the event is coming up Friday.

You can tune in on the live stream.

The report will be available.

You ought to check it out.

And one thing that definitely stood out to me is, again, while no one thinks the numbers are where they need to be, there's this little sort of this a slow upward march.

And then you see the pandemic.

It is very clear and by now there's just not any doubt that the pandemic just hammered school districts that are under-resourced, that are struggling kids lost a lot of learning, connection, parent involvement.

I mean, I, I don't think that's controversial anymore, do you, Brian?

I mean, that's that's that's part of the story, isn't it?

Yeah.

That's the universally understood.

And across systems.

Our charter systems are our, our systems.

Yes.

You and I add to that saber and you saw the same.

Absolutely.

There is no, there's no question that we saw the effects of the digital divide.

We saw the effects of parents and job and just the stress.

And as it hit parents, it hits the kids as well.

That's how when you're at 3.8% math proficiency.

And that's more than double the previous year, you've got this low rise and then boom down and now it's trying to work its way back up.

After we take this only break of the hour, we're going to come back.

We're going to talk about Ela.

We're going to talk about literacy.

We will talk about some of the numbers.

We'll talk about what Doctor Kirkland is bringing as the keynote speaker to this event with the Rock the Future Alliance that's happening on Friday.

Their annual state of Our Children report card comes out.

Then we've reviewed an advance copy.

We're talking about the numbers and where where things are with our kids in this community.

Not good enough, but they're trying to move them in a much better direction.

We'll come right back with our guests next.

Coming up in our second, our special live coverage of Governor Kathy Hochul, state of the state address, the governor lays out her case for what's going on in New York State and what should change her budget address, which comes later this month, will largely follow what she lays out today.

So it's a chance to hear from the governor at length, with coverage coming up from Sky news next hour.

Two new operas that featured black women as protagonists premiered at the Kennedy Center on.

Hear from some of their creators on the next Morning Edition.

From NPR news.

Tomorrow morning at five.

This is connections.

I'm Evan Dawson.

So let me read the third grade English language arts proficiency in Rochester.

All students.

the current number proficient in English language arts.

Ela proficiency by third grade 15%.

That is up from 11.3% the previous year.

But if you go back to the last year before the pandemic, it was up toward 20%.

So there was this hollowing out that happened.

And now, once again, we see that trend up, up, down sharply.

Now we're going back up.

But it's only 15%.

So let me just start with some context from our guests in studios.

And then I want to talk to to David Kirkland about how we how he sees it anyway.

L.A. numbers Brian Lewis 15% L.A. proficiency by third grade.

What do you see there?

like you said, Evan, I see a trend upward, you know, and I see that there are a lot of great literacy interventions.

some local and some, you know, happening across our state and across our nation that are working.

we highlight one in our report card.

There's a great organization called Freedom Scholars doing some really powerful and impactful work.

and so we have an evidence based approach being advanced by our partners at the Rcsi.

We have some great literacy intervention being led by our partners at, the charter schools locally.

And I'm sure CBN could talk more about that.

and so we have some literacy work that is very effective and that is working.

Now we need to bring those to a population level scale.

Okay.

Seaborn Johnson CEO of exceptional.

You want to add to that?

Sure.

glass half empty.

85% of the young people are not reading on grade level.

glass half full.

that upward tick shows what we claim every single day that all of our babies can learn.

Every single one of them can learn.

And so if we look at that then and say there's a way to teach reading, there's a way for them to really find that proper instruction.

And so if we have a culturally responsive, approaches to teaching the science of reading, implementing that in a responsible way that kids can see not only, reading material that represents them, but also that do the teachers actually believe that I can learn that I'm worth teaching, that I can go to?

I can go the extra mile if they go the extra mile.

All of that is actually part of the literacy intervention process.

And what's great about that?

We took a school last year.

I spoke with Brian about this.

We took a school last year that was we gave them base time baseline testing in September last year, 9% reading proficiency, 9%.

We work with them.

And in one year's time, targeted learning methodologies there they moved up 27 percentage points in one year.

How did you do that?

We we made sure that we looked at each student.

It was like giving each student an individualized learning plan.

We we knew when they weren't doing well, they weren't tracked into another program.

We gave them the resources to bring them up.

We made sure that reading wasn't only about fluency, but it was about real comprehension.

But we let the kids know.

We know you can do this, and we are going to get this.

And when you breathe that into individuals, particularly those from marginalized communities, if everyone's told them they can't do it.

But when you tell them they can do it and you stay there day after day after day, what they say is impossible.

We find it is quite possible.

Janice, what do you see in that number?

positive.

and I think, again, like, you know, both by, and as you said, is just working with the parents, working with the teachers, but really trying to, believe in our kids way.

If we don't believe in our kids, then everything else just seems to be, pointless.

So I think is coming out of the pandemic and having that hope that, yes, they can do it.

What do they need?

And giving them that resource to actually do it.

Well, there's a second part of this that I want to turn to, Doctor David Kirkland, who's on the line with us.

He's the author of, among other publications and a forthcoming book, but a book that I think is around ten years old now, a search past silence, the literacy of young black men.

I have not had a chance to to finish reading that, but I want to quote from some of the book's forward that kind of lays out how society tends to view problems like this.

And then we're going to let Doctor Kirkland tell us how he views this issue, and maybe how districts and systems can do it differently.

I'm going to set this up this way.

We talked about kindergarten readiness in Rochester.

It's around 45%, the lowest individual category of kindergarten readiness are male African-American students, 41.7%.

That's the lowest number.

So we just talked about third grade Ela proficiency, 15% overall in the district.

But if you break it down among, again, individual groups, black males is at the lowest with Latino males.

girls doing better in each category.

But white students are at 35% proficient Latinos, about 11% black students, just under 13%.

And the reason I share that context, let me read from the foreword of Doctor Kirkland's book.

Quote.

By now, the abysmal patterns in statistics are so well known that they no longer evoke a sense of shock or disbelief.

Black male youths are overrepresented in every educational category associated with failure, such as suspension and expulsion rates, dropout rates, special ed placements, etc.

and they are underrepresented in every category associated with educational success.

The patterns emerge early, even as early as preschool, and foreshadow those associated with adult black males, like their youthful counterparts.

Adults can be struggling, too.

And then it goes on to say, some of some of the advocates have figured out that the only way to reach black males is to stop pathologizing them and treating them as crippled objects who need to be saved.

They understand that the real work involves providing guidance and support, but also opportunities for young men to develop self-discipline and skills that foster leadership.

It also means helping them in finding their voice.

End quote.

So, Doctor Kirkland, there's a lot there.

And I want to give you some space to talk about those themes and then tell us what you see in the numbers of 15%.

you know, just around just under 13%.

Ela proficiency for black students in third grade.

What do you see there?

Okay.

thank you for for some time.

I read the report, you know, quite differently.

I don't read the report as necessarily a damnation on our young people, our communities, our babies, our broken.

But too often the systems we send them to are.

And what I see is a reflection of a system that has not been designed to work well for particular young people.

In fact, in Rochester, I it's not clear to me that it works well for all of our young people.

And what the report says to me is that there's a lot that we can do to help.

Right.

It says that, you know, those who are closest to the problem are closest to the solution, that we can grab hands and do things in order to design systems that our students don't only deserve, but also deserve our students.

This is why I see things a little bit differently.

I would never say a five year old is not ready for school, but I will say some schools aren't ready for our five year olds, and that's a different position and articulation of what the issues are in education, right?

When I read the report, the report tells me, let's not reflect on the past, but let's see it as a blueprint for future where we do create an education environment for our baby, where every child thrives because we see them.

Right.

And so.

The literacy, statistics, some of the quantitative visible data that we see, we can't see it as a reflection of people and communities.

If we do so, we'll reinforce the existing problem.

And that is a crisis of connection.

But if we begin to see where the root of the problem lies, it's in a system that's not been well designed.

And what, you know, the report says to me is that there's a lot that we can do to support that system in better serving our babies by getting more of them into early childhood education, by getting more of them to focus on things like the science of reading not disconnected from a science of human connection, which means a culturally responsive and sustaining approach to education.

And the key word in everything I just said is the we and the power of possibility that that we implies.

Doctor Kirkland, can you also talk a little bit in in specific about the challenge?

I don't know if that's the right word.

I mean, I, I apologize for the clumsiness here, but the reality is the stats do show black males struggling more than black females than, you know, white counterparts.

And black young men and boys in particular might be stereotyped in different ways, might be viewed, before they even set foot in a classroom.

Different ways.

What do you want to see change in schools and in sort of systemic approach?

There?

Yeah, yeah.

Let let me let me reframe that.

I think the stats show that our system struggle to serve young black men.

Well.

It also struggles to serve, you know, kids across the board in Rochester.

Well, it does a little bit better with some, but it's not doing well, you know, with most and so the question from a systemic approach, right.

If we can kind of like shift that gates, you know, from saying that you're the problem to seeing, hey, what can we do?

And like, like also the responsibility we, we were we were arrive at a completely different, you know, kind of set of questions.

Right.

Like like so if the system does not serve young black men well, what can the system do better in terms of understanding literacy?

One is to see them.

Another is to create conditions that inspire them to read.

We had in literacy programs.

We had places where young men would just love to go to read.

You're talking about sports statistics and they were writing raps and reading raps, and they were talking about it like philosophers talk about big ideas.

These are the kinds of designs that we create that transform education in educational environments for our young people.

This is what Rock the Future Lions is talking about.

This is what the report is about.

It's about how can we uplift what we know is possible in order to design the embrace around our baby so that they feel the hug so that they feel the squeeze.

How can we design a system that works for them?

Is it happening?

I mean, do you see it happening enough?

Well, that's the aspiration of, you know, to rock the future of reliance.

It's telling us it's challenging us.

It's given us a vision of what that might look look like.

Right.

There is, a scripture that says without a vision, the people perish.

And a release of the state of our children report card sets a vision for a future where all 11,000 young people in our care can be placed on pathways of success.

It's about what can we do for them, not how they must change the feed us.

Again, listeners, if you want to weigh in on some of this, so we'll take your responses.

844295 talk.

It's 844295825526368.

If you're in Rochester 263999 for Robert in Rochester called in to say school 17 has an awesome tutoring program to help kids learn how to read.

It's called help me read.

Brian's nodding.

There's there's a number of really good sort of ad hoc, sometimes parent groups and support groups out there.

I guess the question is, is there is there gonna be enough of them?

But you're nodding along to that note from Robin there.

Yeah, I'm familiar with that program.

It's a great one.

You know, I mentioned Freedom Scholars are also highlighting the support.

There's rock reads.

There's Imagination Library, which is partnered with, Rochester Education Foundation.

I mean, there is some remarkable stories of programmatic interventions.

You heard what Superman said.

There are schools and teachers, and they're there's example after example of working to improve literacy and having those systems reflect responsiveness.

Like Doctor Kirkman was just talking about.

So we do have that happening in Rochester.

We need to connect it.

We need to align it to the places where there's most need.

And Jacob in Rochester on the phone wants to weigh in.

Hey, Jacob, go ahead.

Yesterday afternoon.

So I applaud your energy and excitement for the future, both in Rochester.

Currently we have approximately 66% of our families are single parent, and we just got voted in the top five most dangerous cities in the state with a factor of having third 30 plus percent poverty in our city.

So how do we get to people who can't afford or are time stressed?

Because most of our jobs are part time?

How are those parents and living under poverty?

They can't get to a charter school.

How do they move ahead?

All right, so, Jacob, let me I'll have to ask all of our guests if they want to weigh in.

Thanks to producer Megan Mack, a little bit of information here.

According to the United Way.

This was from December 2019 within the city of Rochester.

Three out of five parents are not married.

Three out of four children, 75% live in unmarried family households.

Nationally, unmarried households with children experience poverty at higher rates than the general population.

And locally, that trend holds true again.

Reading from 2019.

In Monroe County, unmarried households with children account for the largest subgroup of households living in poverty.

Brian, I'll start with you.

What would you say to Jacob?

Yeah, those are real systemic barriers.

You know, I want to give a shout out to one of our closest partners who are also conveners and members of our alliance, our Mappy, the Rochester Miro and our Poverty Initiative.

they've done some work to address that specifically, including, trying to increase minimum wage.

and so there are some policy solutions to some of those challenges.

But those challenges are real.

And, we're working very closely with organizations like our Mapi organizations, like Together Now, organizations like Enterprise Community Partners to address those other, challenges like economic challenges, housing.

And we have a really exciting partnership that we're going to be making some more traction on in this next year to try to eliminate homelessness in Rochester with children.

Imagine that.

Imagine if we can eliminate homelessness for Mckinney-Vento students here in Rochester.

What that will do for their education outcomes.

So we those things are true.

And we still have to have some audacity of hope to to keep moving things forward.

Simon Johnson, CEO of exceptional.

Anything you want to add there?

Yeah, I think we have to, make sure that the North Star is always that kids understand that the statement we made that every single child can learn is true.

When you tell me there are housing insecurity issues.

Yes, they are.

And every child can learn.

Are they mental health problems?

Absolutely.

And every child can learn.

Does Rochester have a problem with poverty and crime?

Yes, yes, yes.

And every single child can learn.

And so when we come together as a community and you mentioned our Mapi and others who are doing their part of that, it means that education professionals don't take your foot off the pedal.

Every single child can learn.

I'll just say quickly, one way to make sure you reach every child is to understand that black males who make up the percentage we talked about before.

They are not a monolithic community.

And so we sometimes think that the way to teach black men, black boys is to put in front of them all Lee black authors, but it's not a monolith there.

And so black kids also like Shakespearean solids.

Black kids also like Greek tragedies.

So don't assume you understand the black way of learning because of the melanin in the person's skin.

Understand that every single kid can learn and we have a pathway.

Janice, what would you say to Jacob?

I will say, as a parent who is also in our CSD, and, you know, spend the last 26 years in this community as an immigrant, I think we really have to use the data in a positive way.

Yes, we are.

You know, the community is in poverty, but that is a country wide thing, is a is a national thing.

But knowing that day that will my child into school, my son into school, that data shouldn't be used to penalize him.

So I think we're moving someone who stereotypes knowing that yes, there is the possibility that this child might be coming from a family who is, you know, in poverty or is living in poverty or some situation that shouldn't be used against our child to limit the ability to learn.

So just coming into school, I think we should be more welcoming and knowing those data to use that to provide resources to families.

The data is there.

How can we help family?

The only way to do that is to provide the resources.

Doctor Kirkland, I do want to speak for the caller.

I sense that Jacob feels like there has to be something, some kind of movement or messaging that leads to a society with fewer kids growing up in single parent households.

What that is, I don't know.

What do you agree with that?

Doctor Kirkland?

first, let me just thank the caller for their vulnerability and for sharing.

You know, I don't necessarily agree with it.

You know, I wish that everyone could live lives that they desire.

you know, single parents or non single parents, people have, you know, some people make choices, some don't.

I wish people could live life that they desire.

But what I will say is that poverty is not a learning disability.

And I will say that people who happen to not have material possessions matter.

That worth is not based on how much you have that you're worth as a human being is self-evident.

It just is right.

And because of that, we can together create classrooms where every child feels seen, valued, and inspired.

We can redefine what it means to prepare young people for lives of dignity and purpose, regardless of their material status, that we can do so by ensuring that every child, every family, and every dream is not left behind.

So I get it.

Structural barriers exists.

Systemic issues are there.

Now what?

Now let's grab hands.

Let's figure out how to create the systems that bring us all up on terms that make sense to us.

I'm going to try to get as many calls as we can get in here.

I did want to mention, before I come back to your phone calls, a number of listeners have pointed out, well, it's hard to teach when kids aren't in school, and attendance has been a big problem.

And yes, it has.

And our colleagues at Noel Evans and others have really done a great job reporting on this.

The report does point to the success of Verdi's high school.

That's a public charter school for boys and young men versus graduation rates 79% in 2024, 86% in 2023 are viewed as an indicator that their approach is working.

And the report says much of vertices success can also be credited to their laser like focus on ensuring regular attendance.

Let me ask Stephen Johnson, CEO of exceptional.

What does that mean?

How does how is Vernice getting kids to attend school at higher rated high rates?

Well, I take great, great pride in what furnaces doing.

I was part of the founding board of Albertus.

Vernice does, something, close to what Doctor Coughlin, mentioned a minute ago.

versus does not say, why are the kids not attending school?

Verdi's says, what does a school need to do to make sure kids attend and whatever has to be done?

If we have to put up a pick up the phone and call parents, we're going to pick up the phone.

The call we're going to find it's not what's wrong with them, it's what's wrong with them, what's wrong with us, and adapt our system accordingly to meet the needs of those kids.

They ask the question, are our hearts three times wrong at this?

Is the length of our calendar wrong?

What can we do differently?

How do we move you in?

Verdict, by the way, is one of those schools who routinely get kids in the ninth grade at a fifth and sixth grade, reading level.

And we still say and I say we as a charter, sector, we still say we can graduate you and graduate you out on time.

So if you can do this in a minute or less, I'm going to challenge you for for listeners who are hearing talk about versus how they hear the talk about charters, often this becomes this binary that you're for charters or you're against charters and seaborn.

You've said it's more complex than that.

Please, please, please, let's stop having the binary conversations.

District versus charter is it's one of the things that that I think Brian and I, we just shake hands on all the time that there our kids there Rochester kids.

we need to be agnostic in terms of systems.

I dream of a day when there's no need for charter schools to do this stuff.

I want the RC, ASD to succeed.

I just happen to be crazy enough to believe we could do it together.

Well, you come back on a separate day and we'll just talk charters.

We'll get a panel together.

Will you come back and do that?

Love to.

All right.

That's an invitation because this is an important conversation.

And too often it gets reduced to this, you know, for August.

let me grab a let me grab Brian, who has been waiting.

Hey, Brian, go ahead.

Yeah.

I've got a question for you, Doctor Kirkland.

I've seen articles that say that the Ed schools aren't training teachers how to teach reading in accordance with the new science of reading.

Do you see that as a big part of the problem?

and but that about 90s Doctor Kirkland, go ahead.

Yeah.

I think I think that Ed schools need to do a lot better job in helping teachers be prepared to go into situations where they can transform the experience for our young people.

so it's and we certainly can point at ed schools as a systems flaw that we need to transform.

But I believe that, you know, it's more than just the science of reading.

We talk about the science of reading like it's a cure all.

There's a lot of good science that's come out of the science of reading.

We also need the science of human connection.

We need the science of reading to be taught in culturally responsive and sustaining ways.

And we need teacher training to be better for our babies.

Yes.

Brian, thank you for the phone call.

And listeners, you've heard us talk about this in the last few years.

The new president of the Rochester City School Board, Camille Simmons, is very much focused on the question of literacy, has cautioned us, just like Doctor Kirkland did, not to just oversimplify, too.

Are you doing phonics or are you not doing phonics?

Are you doing science reading or not?

But it does matter.

And you know, it's not just a one or the other.

Charters are not charters.

Phonics are not phonics, but it's a component that really matters.

And we will be talking much more about that with the new president of the school board very soon.

I appreciate the question, Brian.

And as we wrap the hour, Brian Lewis, executive director of the Future Alliance, got a big day on Friday.

The report card officially drops on Friday.

Doctor Kirkland's coming to do the keynote.

What do you want to leave with listeners here?

It's a big day for our community again.

I mean, this is our community's metrics.

These are our community's children.

So we're working together as seven mentioned.

this is a collaborative effort, and we're proud of the partnership that we're advancing to put our young people in the path of upward mobility, right.

The future alliance has a number of layers to it.

And one of them is, the the future Rock Future Alliance parent Engagement collaborative Action Network.

I'm sure they'd love to get more parents involved.

There's ways to reach out.

We'll have that, information about what they're doing and our show notes.

If you'd like to do that.

I want to thank our guests who've been here.

Brian Lewis, thank you for making time for the program.

Thank you.

Thank you to Seaborn Johnson, CEO of exceptional.

Thank you so much.

We'll see you soon.

And Janice, Denise Paw is co-chair of the React Feature Alliance parent Engagement collaborative Action network.

Thank you for being here.

Thank you, Doctor David Kirkland, thank you for the expertise in the time this hour.

Thank you so much.

And the state of the state with Governor Kathy Hochul is our second hour today.

Thank you for listening.

We're back with you tomorrow.

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