From WXXI news I'm Jasmine Singer and this is Environmental connections.

Today's environmental connection began with a simple yet profound idea.

What if one important solution to climate change was already growing all around us?

Enter the Carbon Forestry Trust, a nonprofit taking a hands on, localized approach to carbon sequestration.

Their mission is simple, but it's very powerful by land plant trees and managed forests.

Long term.

Unlike many climate organizations that focus on high tech solutions, Carbon Forestry Trust is betting on nature itself, and they say they're already making quite the measurable impact.

When we think about solutions to climate change, we often focus on those technology driven fixes things like expanding clean energy and capturing carbon from industrial plants or engineering the atmosphere itself.

But what if the most effective solution, or one of the most effective solutions, has been in front of us all along?

Forests have long been one of nature's most powerful tools for removing carbon from the atmosphere through photosynthesis, trees absorb CO2 and store it in their biomass and the soil, helping to slow the pace of global warming.

And while large scale reforestation efforts have been underway worldwide, small scale matters too, and this local nonprofit is proving that the key to impactful change might just be in our own backyards.

I find that really hopeful.

Joining me today to unpack the role of forests as carbon sinks, as well as the trust's approach, are Jennifer Gillan, vice president of carbon forestry Trust and VP and director of environmental operations at Labella associates, and Charlie Oster, vice president of real estate development at Edgemere.

Charlie has a background in chemistry and real estate development, making him uniquely positioned to discuss land acquisition and conservation strategies.

Jennifer Charlie, welcome to Environmental Connections.

Thanks for having us.

So excited.

There's you know, I was just talking to one of my colleagues out there, and she was like, people love trees.

I mean, it's really a topic that so many people care about, and it is kind of one of those things that's universal.

Jennifer, I want to start with you and start with the big picture.

There are plenty of organizations working to mitigate climate change.

So tell us about the inspiration behind the trust's founding and why it is focused so specifically on carbon sequestration through forestry.

Yeah, absolutely.

I mean, the trust is combined.

Our board is a working board where we're a startup.

Really?

like many startups, we don't make any money.

but unlike many startups, we're planting a lot of trees.

And you know, we're starting to have an impact here.

you know, the board is comprised of a variety of people from, scientists like myself to real estate developers like Charlie to foresters, Christmas tree farmers.

we've got a great group.

to, to combine our knowledge.

But most importantly, we're really motivated by reforestation and, carbon sequestration.

Charlie, I am so curious about your background in real estate development and how the Carbon Forestry Trust works with developers.

Yeah.

and, you know, it's, it's probably a good way to segue off what John was saying.

So you were you were asking about, you know, how the Carbon Forestry Trust came to be in its founding.

And I think to understand how we work with developers, it helps to to understand a little bit the guy that founded the Carbon Forestry Trust.

So his name, John Foster.

he was a lifelong environmental advocate.

You know, in high school and college, he formed an environmental advocacy group called Pollution and Underground.

In the 30s, he started, co-op, with, you know, a dozen other like minded people.

And, you know, they went and bought some cheap land off the government, and they built one house and they all lived in that.

And then they built another house and they split up, and then they built another house, and they were farming, and they were sharing and helping each other raise their kids.

He worked for the government for a while, and I was working in their environmental units and also their housing departments.

And then when my grandfather got sick, John, also my dad, he he moved back to Rochester and he needed to find a new job.

So that new job ended up being affordable housing development.

He he started working for for conifer.

Ironically, it's a fitting name.

and in 2000, he started Edgemere Development.

And, he's been working there ever since.

And about a decade ago, I remember he started to talk about this dream that he had.

And the dream was to, you know, a lot of what we were hearing about in development was to go net zero, right, was to make buildings more efficient, make them totally electrified and at the same time green the grid.

Right.

Because if you can electrify your building and you can make the electricity green and renewable, then you've hit not zero.

His issue with that was always, you know, even if we went net zero tomorrow, right, it wouldn't be enough because the plant would keep heating up because there's already too much carbon dioxide in the atmosphere.

So the Carbon Forestry Trust was really his response to that.

so we partner with developers that really want to enhance their climate goals and go more than just net zero, right.

And we have a relatively simple easement agreement that we enter into.

Part of our job is helping to quantify the carbon footprint of their projects.

the, carbon sequestration capacity of our forests establish what kind of offset they're looking for, convert that into trees, acreage, and, enter into a long term agreement.

So what does it mean that CFT is focused on managed forestry for either of you?

What is managed forestry mean?

Any managed forestry is is actually going out.

And for instance, reforestation.

Reforesting.

Right.

Planting trees.

so what we're doing is planting trees for the purpose of carbon sequestration.

what's really important when we talk about, you know, talking about managed forestry, but then forestry management, you know, it's not just going out and planting trees and hoping they grow.

it's it's maintaining that caring for those trees for, you know, not just for five years until they really get established, but, for decades, that means, you know, thinning stands standing in the forest, planting new trees, clearing invasives.

And that is going to make the forest, more, more, a stronger, less vulnerable to, you know, continuing warming climate.

so things like, invasive species that we manage.

fighting disease, combating disease.

And it's really important with strong forests to, develop that biodiversity and the diversity of species, age classes of the forest and sizes.

And that's what's going to make, the forest less vulnerable.

Long term.

Okay.

Charlie, I want to go back to you, first of all, to what you said about net zero.

We've certainly covered electrification in and net zero on environmental connections.

You're not saying that people shouldn't do that, are you?

No, no.

net zero is a good thing.

Okay.

I just wanted to make clear that you're.

You're saying there are other things to consider.

Yeah, it's it's kind of like we're all part of the solution.

We think, you know, like, those are absolutely things that should happen and need to happen and are happening.

We just feel like, we should aim for something a little bit more than that, you know?

And.

Yeah, go ahead.

And I know on the carbon offset market sometimes gets a bad name.

You hear about these carbon credits being sold and it's really just, you know, sometimes companies buying hundreds of thousands of acres of already forested land.

Yeah.

That's that's great that that's going to be set aside.

It's not going to be turned to timber harvesting.

The trees aren't going to be cut down.

That's a that's a good thing.

There's a space for that.

but what's really important and what we're doing is we're not only buying old pasture land that primarily isn't forested now, and planting new trees, but the easements that we're selling, the developers we're selling them to have primarily at this point only been affordable housing developers.

They are focused on sustainability.

They have to be focused on sustainability to get the subsidies and the funding that they need.

So that means electrification.

And, you know, New York State electrification, sustainable building products, EV charging and, you know, etc., etc..

Okay.

So it's not just greenwashing, right?

You know, they're they're truly invested in this, in that community.

and then we can just help them get even, further past net zero.

I do want to get back to offsets later.

but sticking with this idea of criteria, Charlie, what criteria do you use when selecting land for carbon sequestration?

And tell us a little bit about the challenges that come with securing those suitable plots.

Sure.

So it starts with, acreage and cost, right?

so we, you know, we do a lot of the things that a lot of people do when they're looking for land.

Right?

You go on Zillow, you go on realtor, all that stuff.

We also have a network of brokers out there that help us look for, you know, land that fits that bill.

And generally what we're looking for is land that's more than 50 acres.

when we originally set out, in 2021, we were hoping to find land that was something like $1,500 an acre.

It's ended up being more like $3,000 an acre.

But that's kind of a rule of thumb right now that that we're looking at.

So it starts by looking at land that really fit those two criteria.

And then after that we have foresters that we hire that we deploy to these sites.

And they, they really start to dig in.

So they look at soil conditions, they look at, how much of the land is plantable, right.

drainage, grading, all that good stuff, really, to see, you know, how suitable the land is for reforestation.

Some sites just just are not.

And if we check all those boxes, then, then the rest just kind of happens, you know, we purchase the land, we start, we come up with a, forestry plan, we plant trees, all that.

If you're just tuning in, I'm Jasmine Singer, and you're listening to Environmental Connections, which is the last Friday of every month from 12 to 2.

And I'm being joined today by Jennifer Gillan, who is the vice president of Carbon Forestry Trust, and Charlie Oster, who's the vice president of real estate development at Edgemere.

And we're talking about trees and and carbon sinks.

And so one thing that I found interesting when I was reading about all of the incredible work that you're doing, is that CFT also works with conservation easements, allowing landowners to prevent development while maintaining ownership.

So, Jennifer, can you tell us a little bit about how that works and how it fits into Cftc's broader model?

Yeah, of course.

So the easements are, you know, kind of part of that carbon offset market.

so, you know, we as Charlie mentioned before, we either approach a developer, developer may approach us, looking to add to what they're already doing in terms of sustainability and getting towards net zero.

we work with, calculators from the EPA or IPCC to identify, you know, what we think the carbon capacity is of the land we're going to plant, and then work with the developer to understand, you know, what they're development is going to mean in terms of carbon footprint and figure out the offset from there.

Do you have anything to add to that, Charlie?

No, no, I think, I think Jen covered it.

So I understand that there's increasing recognition of the long term risks of low diversity forests, including vulnerability to disease and pests and wildfires.

And the voluntary carbon market is, from what I understand, shifting toward high biodiversity projects.

So, Charlie, what's the difference between these types of projects, and is this an issue for you in remaining competitive?

Yeah, it's it's something that we spend a lot of time thinking about.

And more and more we rely on the expertise of the foresters that we work with.

And, and Jen, I'll talk a little bit about this later, but we're also working with the University of Vermont to do some research on this exact subject, because there's there's a lot of ways to go about this.

Right.

You've got a piece of land.

What's the best thing you can do with it to sequester carbon?

Right.

For some pieces of land, it might mean different, different species.

It might mean leaving this piece of the land alone.

So there's a there's a lot that goes into it as far as, biodiversity goes and and highly diverse, land.

yes.

That is, I think, the long term goal, you know, monocultures and planting, you know, really only one kind of species are you're kind of putting all your eggs in one basket, right?

So you might accomplish your goal, short term of sequestering carbon.

But long term, you know, there's there's a bit more risk there.

You're a bit more susceptible to climate change.

You know, new pest that come in.

so, you know, to date, most of what we've done has been to plant really hardy trees and to make sure we're planting at least, at least two types of trees on a lot.

And, long term, we'd like to have a mix of soft woods, hardwoods, non trees, you know, really, really diverse climate because we know that that is going to be the most sustainable, the most able to regenerate on its own, the healthiest ecosystem.

And make for a really great carbon sink long term.

So I think that that absolutely should be, the goal.

Okay.

Sticking with that subject, Jennifer, carbon sequestration, it's it's often touted as, like a critical tool in fighting climate change.

So can you break down how forests act as carbon sinks, and why you believe that reforestation to capture carbon can be effective in the northeast specifically?

Yeah.

I mean, it starts with basic fourth grade biology, right?

Like I was not paying attention that, doy, I got you covered, in photosynthesis.

So, the biomass, the leaves are pulling carbon out of the atmosphere, you know, in the form of CO2, carbon dioxide, and emitting oxygen back out.

Lovely.

For us, mammals, any organisms breathing that in, and the carbon gets stored, you know, in the, the leaves or needles, in, the actual woody, part of the tree and into the roots, and and even, most importantly, gets passed into the soil in a lot of different ways.

and believe it or not, in the northeast, more than 50% of carbon is actually stored in the soil, and it can be stored there.

You know, the deeper the better.

But for for years, decades, centuries, even millennia.

so that's what's really important about, you know, the health of the forest and, and carbon sequester.

Suddenly I have a cough.

I apologize for that.

okay.

If you're listening to this and you're just tuning in, we would love to add you to the conversation.

Please give us a call (844) 295-8255 special.

welcome to our YouTube live listeners and viewers.

You can comment there as well.

You can email us at connections@wxxi.org.

Carbon Forest Carbon Forestry Trust makes the point that it's not just about planting trees, right?

It's about as you're talking about the long term forest management.

So Jennifer, talk a little bit about why that's so critical and how it works in practice.

Yeah, I mean, if if we were to plant our trees and, you know, just let them be, we're going to probably end up with some monoculture or more towards monoculture.

and we could have trees growing too closely together.

because at this point all been planted out at the same time, we wouldn't be going out and thinning them.

so what we do need to do is go out there, manage them.

as I mentioned before, handle invasives, any, diseases that may come up, then those out so we can plant new trees and have different age classes.

That's really important for a healthy forest.

additional species, new species, really important, to protect against, you know, different diseases that may affect one species and not the other.

and then to continue to assess as the climate warms.

so far, the trees we've planted as, as Charlie mentioned, the species, they grow really quickly, which and so they can, sequester carbon quickly, as opposed to a hardwood, however a hardwood.

We've been looking more into that recently on our our journey here since 2021.

They grow bigger so they can store more carbon long term and potentially when they reach the end of their lifespan, can be used as a timber product and retain that carbon for another hundred years or more, through furniture or whatever.

Yeah.

That's fascinating.

Charlie, I understand that CFA has already acquired several land parcels, and I want to talk about them, including sites in Horseheads and Andover here in New York.

Could you talk a little bit about these projects and how you went into selecting the right land for that particular initiative?

Sure.

So I think it's probably an important disclaimer here to say that, we're making this up as we go.

So we're, where why is that?

Is there just this has not been done before, so.

Yeah, it's, it's it is amazing.

how, I guess a couple things.

One, it doesn't seem like there's a whole lot of people out there doing what we do, right?

There's people out there that do forestry management.

but there's not a whole lot of people creating new forest growth.

So take the site, and, Catlin, New York, which is Horseheads.

that was our first site.

It was former pasture land that was, really, underutilized and, and needed a, a new use.

so we purchased that site.

It's about 80 acres.

we found that about half of that was plantable.

Right.

So we planted 28,000 trees.

And, that scale of tree planting is not one that we're really seeing, anywhere else.

At least not in the northeast.

And, you know, when we talked to our foresters about it, they talk about, so I think it was in the 30s, the Civilian Conservation Corps under FDR, right?

They they did this.

They planted four and a half, billion trees all over the United States.

But they didn't keep any records.

So we don't we don't we would love to know how they did it and what worked and what didn't.

but that's that's kind of like the closest thing that we can come to is finding something analogous to what we do.

So, it's a lot of educated guesswork and, learning as we go.

So, the site in Horseheads, we planted, large trees, which are, you know, a cousin of Tamarack and, Norway spruce.

neither of those trees are native.

Ideally, you'd always, you know, plant native trees, but, that's that's not always practical.

But I think what's important is, even though they're non-native, they're also noninvasive.

And Norway spruces and larches, they're, they're, you know, immigrant trees the same way.

You know, many of us are immigrants, right?

So Norway spruces have been here for 150 years now.

Tamarack have been around for a very long time.

So they work really well in this climate and they grow really well.

They're a very hardy species.

We don't want to be planting trees that are going to be requiring a ton of upkeep over time, right.

Because that, you know, that adds cost, that adds more carbon footprint.

It's really not what we're trying to do.

So we found that that mix of species, worked particularly well for that site.

And then the site in Andover, there we planted, spruce, larch and red pine trees.

we planted 26,000 trees there, two years ago.

And, we got a little smarter with our second.

So one of the things that we learned about pasture land is, it's very cheap, which is great.

There's a reason it's that cheap.

the soil is very, very compacted, so, it where it suits us well, but there's a lot more time you have to spend on actually taking care of the soil itself and preparing it for a planting.

So.

And over the land was a little more expensive is also much more plantable.

Right.

So the survival rate of the trees and, you know, resistance to drought and that kind of stuff, it worked out well for us.

Charlie Oster, I want to go back to what you said about native plants, because I know that there's a growing movement toward planting native plants and trees to support local biodiversity, including pollinators like bees and birds and butterflies.

Some native species, like the monarch butterfly, rely entirely on specific plants for survival, and CFT primarily plants.

From what I understand and from what you just said.

But please correct me if I'm wrong.

Norway spruce, larch and red pine as you mentioned, some of which are not native.

So given that native ecosystems depend on diverse plant life, how does CFT balance the goal of maximizing carbon sequestration with maintaining local biodiversity?

Yeah, I think you got it.

We look at it case by case.

Right.

Because striking that balance is something that you got to work at with every project that we do.

So, you know, our mission is to sequester carbon, but not at the expense of the natural environment.

Right?

So for some sites, that might mean that planting, you know, the trees that we've planted work very well.

For others, it's leaving certain areas alone.

for every site we do, we rely very heavily on our foresters to help us kind of do that math.

Right.

And figure out what makes the most sense.

we actually, so our most frequent recent acquisition was a couple of sites in Grove, New York, and those we're really excited about because we're looking to plant more native species, a greater diversity of trees, hard and soft woods, and to really incorporate a lot of those ideas that you want to see.

Right?

A biodiverse, ecosystem.

good habitat, all that.

Okay.

Thank you.

We might get back to that, but I do want to go to one of our callers.

We've got, Bob from Mendon.

Bob, welcome to Environmental Connections.

Thanks so much for calling in.

Sure.

Thanks for taking my call.

A couple of questions.

One, you mentioned you're doing a study with, UVM.

I'm wondering why you didn't partner with Suny, ESF right here in Syracuse.

And secondly, you mentioned that, you're looking for a land that's 50 acres or larger if you were to do it.

My question is this if you were to work with homeowners who had land and wanted additional trees planted, if you had, let's say, five acres for each homeowner and had ten of those homeowners, would that be the same result as having 50 acres planted in one area?

Oh, those are great questions.

Let's start with the first one.

about Vermont.

do either of you want to take that or what was the partnership with Vermont like?

I see, like you're thinking hard.

There's snow coming on here.

No, it's so our forest, there's actually great.

graduated from Suny, ESF.

It's, keister, consulting.

it's a great school.

we would love to do more work with them.

so there's there's no reason that we wouldn't do more work with them.

the partnership with UVM, was kind of interesting.

We were holding our first fundraiser ever, and, our chair, a guy, Al Smith.

he, he came across an article by Doctor Ali Kokhba who works at the University of Vermont and Forestry, and she came out and she did a presentation, and she just she just knocked the socks off everybody.

And we started talking to her about the work that she was doing and the work that we were doing.

We asked her if she would be interested in doing some research to help us figure out, what the best way is to do what we're doing.

Right.

What are the factors we need to be considering that we might not be, and so that it really just was an outgrowth of that.

Right?

We, so that's that's how that came to be.

and and you've been reading up on Doctor like Josie, but I don't know if you'd add anything else to that.

Jim.

No, I think you nailed.

Okay.

So what about the second question from our caller that was, you know, fascinating to me.

Could you take five acres of residential ten times over and get the same effects?

That theoretically you could, but, you know, it's it's easier and cheaper to buy in bulk is, I guess, the easy answer.

There.

just working through, understanding, you know, if we're looking at, say, five different areas, it could be across a county, it could be across New York state.

and understanding each soil type is going to be different.

And then, you know, there's, there's some overhead, there's some extra time, there's nuances to each property.

that makes it a little more challenging, you know, of course, access agreements, negotiating and actually purchasing the land, if that's the case.

So it just makes, I think we get more bang for our buck at the bigger property.

Carbon.

Right.

Is there a takeaway, though, for homeowners?

I mean, is there a way that the listeners right now can sort of, so to speak, plug this into their own environmental efforts?

And if so, what would that be?

So so what I would say is that's a really cool idea.

And, we would love to explore it.

I think Jen's absolutely right that logistically it might be challenging, you know, planting ten different plots instead of one.

You gotta mobilize your gear more than once.

There's going to be different soil conditions.

But, what I'll also say is this the biggest expense that we deal with is the cost of land, right?

So if you had homeowners that were entering into this voluntarily, right.

And there was no cost to land, and all we had to do was pay for the trees and the planting, and these people just agreed to be good stewards of the land.

That would make the economics of it work really, really well, I think.

So it's it's a really interesting idea and one that, I would be happy to explore.

Wonderful.

Well, we are going to explore a lot more when we come back from our one short break that we're going to take from environmental connections.

And when we come back, I do have a few callers to get to.

If you're listening to this and you want to be part of the conversation, please call us 844295825 5 or 5 852639994.

You can also comment on the YouTube live stream that's going on right now.

We'll be right back.

Coming up in the second hour of environmental Connections, we're exploring the environmental toll of health care.

Hospitals generate vast amounts of waste and are responsible for significant greenhouse gas emissions.

We'll look at how some facilities are working to adopt greener practices from energy efficiency to waste reduction, and what more needs to be done to address this challenge.

That's ahead in the second hour of environmental connections.

Support for your public radio station comes from our members and from City Magazine, covering arts and culture in the greater Rochester community.

Since 1971 on the web, daily and in print monthly.

More at Rock city, maggot.

Com City Arts, music, Culture.

If you're just tuning in here on I am Jasmine Singer and you're listening to Environmental Connections today, I'm being joined by Jennifer Gillan, who is the vice president of Carbon Forestry Trust and the VP and director of environmental operations at Labella associates, and Charlie Oster, the vice president of real estate development at Edgemere.

And we're talking today about the role of forests as carbon sinks and the unique approach that the carbon Forestry Trust has.

I see that we have a lot of callers I want to get on with, Victoria.

So, Victoria, thank you so much for calling today.

I see you're calling from Brighton.

Welcome to Environmental Connections.

And what's your question?

And I love the work that you're doing.

And I wondered if you were working, trying to integrate a whole systems perspective, like the Milwaukee Forest that the eco restoration Alliance has been, experimenting with very, very.

Well, I don't know if you're familiar with that, but I also wanted to ask if, if you were thinking about biodiversity credits as well.

And I know some things about that as well as the whole systems.

Look by region look, which is what our nonprofit, possible Rochester, is working with in the design school for Regenerating Earth with Joe Brewer.

Can you tell us what the name of the first program was that you just mentioned, Shaw Eco Restoration Alliance, and are you familiar with them?

Okay.

Our guests are not familiar.

Why don't you briefly tell us about that, Victoria?

Sure.

John Shaw, who lives in Rochester and is actually a global, key influencer and, innovator, has brought together people who who are doing regeneration of land in all parts of the world very, very exciting.

And, he's also part of bio for climate, which is another nonprofit, bio for climate has many of the world's experts on these Milwaukee forests.

I could spell that if you want.

That's okay.

You know, you got it across.

I don't think that's how many people are writing it down right now.

But go ahead.

Tell us about the gist of the program.

Milwaukee forests might be ideal for these, homeowners that have a certain amount of land.

I understand you could build a Milwaukee forest in 300ft .

Okay.

The idea is.

Yes.

It's, like, amazing.

It's probably very similar to the techniques you may be using, in that they.

But the difference might be is they have a plan for.

And they planted all at once.

of, all of the trees at different heights that are going to be needed in this eco forest.

And over the course of three years of maintaining this land, after three years, it's self maintaining, does not need any human intervention and becomes like an overgrowth forest because it has an abundance of biodiversity, because it's designed that way.

Victoria.

Thank you.

That's that's fascinating.

I'd love to further explore that.

Feel free to drop me an email if you'd like to.

we can talk more about that.

Remind me your second question.

The second question is there is a new field or, new competency in valuing biodiversity, and being able to calculate the financial value of it.

I was just on a webinar with a Adina professor Q from Earth, a nonprofit.

She founded a R t h and they are a collection of, scientists and, philosophers and whole systems thinkers that are putting a dollar value on, on the ground regeneration efforts so that they can the ecological services that they create can be financially, predicted and then sold like on the carbon market.

Wow.

Well, thank you so much.

You are clearly a very informed person and I'd love to pick your brain longer.

Do you have any, any feedback to the.

It's just so hopeful to hear about all of these groups.

You know, almost every day that I don't know anything about it, to be honest.

And and to hear what they're doing in their mission.

And you know how it aligns.

Yeah.

Or at least parallels.

What's wrong.

Yeah.

And I know we have some other callers to get to.

But Jennifer, speaking of things that are hopeful, you're working toward a very ambitious goal of planting 1 million trees.

Yes.

are were you serious when you came up with that goal, or were you the next morning, were you like, what did I say?

Or I didn't tell me more about what challenges come with scaling up a reforestation effort like this.

How are you going to ensure the long term success of these forests?

Yeah, I mean, when you talk in forest areas, you know, it's it's it's past time frames.

It's not years.

It's decades.

Right.

So our initial goal may take a decade or so to get to.

But you know, we're just starting up.

We're we're learning so much, again, we're that we're that ragtag start up, volunteers doing this.

but yeah, our initial goals are plant 2000 acres, acquire and plant 2000 acres, and plant 1 million trees.

You know, as of today, we're about 10% there on both sides of those things.

You'll notice, our goal is to plant a million trees.

We don't have a time frame tag to that by March, but.

Yeah, right.

so we're getting there.

So CFT has chosen not to sell carbon credits or offsets.

We you started to chat about that before, and I want to make sure that we have time to chat a little bit more about it, because this sets you apart from many organizations working in this space.

So, Jen, I'm curious about what led to that decision.

And given that many reforestation efforts rely on carbon credit funding, how does CFG finance its tree planting project and long term forest management?

Yeah, sure.

And I do want to point out the easements are very similar to credits.

but you know, as we mentioned before, this is a really associated with greenwashing.

The, the people who are purchasing these easements to help us buy the land and maintain these forests long term, are focused on sustainability, are even required as part of their developments to have a focus on that and to get to net zero and meet the state schools.

Yeah.

And I think just to add to what Jan was saying, I think, I think we think there's a, there's a place for carbon credits, I'm sure they're, they're doing great things with them.

We just, we don't touch them.

because it wasn't what we were interested in doing.

We wanted to create new sequestration.

And what we had observed with carbon credits is that, a lot of it might just be that you're agreeing not to destroy something and getting a credit for that, and maybe that's okay.

But we wanted to, create new growth.

And so, we do that by planting, you know, tens of thousands of trees, right?

New sequester sequestration opportunities.

And maybe the other thing that sets us apart a little bit is that it's a very direct relationship.

You know, for example, we we partnered with, a developer CBM manual who owns and operates Saint Bernards on Lake Avenue.

And, they wanted to enhance their climate goals.

And they did that by, purchasing a conservation easement at the Catlin farm.

Right.

And so if they want, they can.

And so the agreement is directly between the property and the project.

So it's a very direct arrangement.

It's something that they could go look at, touch and feel if they wanted to.

So do the developers you're working with also take steps to assure that their practices and the buildings that they build are climate friendly.

Yes.

Oh my goodness.

Even even if they didn't want to, the, the environment that we're working in right now is just so pro climate.

every project that gets developed at least in the affordable housing housing space generally has lots of bells and whistles as far as, energy efficiency, all electric systems, ground source heat pumps, solar, renewables, there's a lot of programs out there that you can get credit for, like Leed programs and passive house and net zero.

And then every project that we do goes through really rigorous, environmental reviews both at the state and the federal levels.

And we have to do things like identify any species that are being impacted, making sure we're not using any non invasive species, for plant life.

you know, looking at planning documents, it's it's a pretty holistic, holistic look.

So I feel like people are doing a really good job with the buildings that they're creating nowadays.

Well, that's good to know.

Jen.

You have something that.

Yeah, to answer the second part of your question, you know, while most of our our financing funding comes from these easements, we've also been really successful in terms of fundraising.

you know, on the donation side, people just providing donations.

we've been doing an annual fundraiser the last two years that's been, very successful.

Yeah.

Well, that's good.

I we have a couple callers.

Patrick, welcome to Environmental Connections.

Thanks for hanging on the line.

Was your question you're talking about patent Geneva.

Sorry.

Yes, yes.

Hi, Pat.

Patrick.

Pat.

Whatever you prefer.

Patty.

Work.

Call me Pat.

Pat, go call me Jack.

Want to mention some organizations that just anyone can get involved with?

the homegrown national park?

I expect you're familiar with it, which is just a great ordinance.

Something you can do in your own yard.

I thanks pretty much.

Means your own yard.

Okay.

Thank you.

That's great to know I what did you have another example as well?

Because I know that, we're all taking notes about how we can each get involved and not necessarily rely on organizations to do the work that so many of us want to do in our own backyards.

Exactly.

This is a great organization.

You can just absolutely get involved with, the Finger Lakes Land Trust.

Okay.

Great little Finger Lakes organization.

and and something that anyone can do anyone instead of using Google your first Google you can use a search engine called ecosphere.

Echo show I, I've been using it for four for five years and I notice no difference whatsoever.

I search for things I have no problem.

Oh it's easy oh I see yeah because you thank you.

And Charlie I see you're nodding and thumbs up being that big big fan of exposure there legit.

They're the real deal.

Every time you do a search they plant more trees all around the world.

I love that I totally endorse that.

That's so great.

Well, thank you so much, Pat.

let's get to Lauren.

Lauren, thanks so much for calling environmental connections and for hanging out while you were waiting.

Hi.

Thanks.

Thanks for taking my call.

I guess my question is if you guys could give an example of, like, how you, you know, you go into these communities, how you kind of sell your, the neighbors and local people and what you're doing, you know, is, is kind of, being good neighbors and learning from the neighbors that, that you buy the land from or you're adjacent to.

So if you had an example of that, that that would be, that would be fun for me to hear.

Thank you so much.

Thank you for calling.

Do you have an example of of how it's been to work with your neighbors and, and what the reactions have been?

so first off, I'm like 99.9% sure that was my mom.

And so, so thanks, mom.

nice to hear from you.

Are you so proud of your son right now?

she's she's been, listening to NPR her whole life.

So, That's funny.

Yes.

so when when we're not working for the Carbon Forestry Trust, right?

I work in affordable housing development.

Lots of NIMBYism.

It's it can be a real challenge.

So we're used to going into communities and educating people and building consensus around a certain vision.

One of the wonderful things about the Carbon Forestry Trust is that there is so much common ground with all sorts of people.

Anytime we have gone to meet with, the neighbors, with, the people that run these towns that were, planting trees and they love it.

we have not had any major issues there.

And it's been it's been so wonderful to see people from all sorts of different backgrounds and different places on the political spectrum get behind it.

And honestly, that's that's been one of the most amazing things about the trust.

So that that property and Katlin, right, are our problem child with the compacted soil and all sorts of other issues that we had to deal with, we figured out.

we got to know the neighbors really well and, they've actually, they, they, they now hunt on our property in exchange for that.

They have become stewards of our land.

So there was a drought a couple of years ago that was threatening the trees.

So they they had a four Wheeler that they just drove around and watered all the trees.

So, there's been a real sense of community there.

And at a lot of these other properties that we work at, there's snowmobile clubs that we talk to and make sure that they're good, that they're not going to fly right through our, you know, our land while we're planning trees.

but, yeah, it's it's been really wonderful.

And I think it just starts by being up front with people, you know, going and talking to the neighbors, talking to whoever's, you know, you know, whether it's a town supervisor or village or city mayor letting them know what you're doing.

And, you know, four out of four times, that's been very successful.

there's probably some people out there who could, you know, figure I have an ax to grind, but that hasn't happened yet.

So it's been, it's been really wonderful.

Good, good.

I'm glad to hear that, that Cortland was the problem child and not you.

Especially if that was your mom.

My mom listens to it.

By the way.

I want to switch gears because I know that some regions are experimenting with assisted migration.

So relocating tree species to areas where they're more likely to thrive as the climate changes and the climate is certainly changing.

So given that changing conditions in the northeast, especially Jen, is this something CFTC has explored or would maybe consider in the future?

Yeah, absolutely.

I mean, it's come up most recently at our our latest retreat where we're kind of visioning and planning out what this is going to look like.

the trees we planted so far are very hardy.

they're fairly drought resistant.

they can grow and very sandy and rocky, soils.

so that that's helpful in the near future.

But it's something we need to continue to assess as as the climate warms.

It's fascinating.

My my day job at Labella.

we've been really focused on climate resilience engineering and sustainable operate operations, plans for municipalities and and how to, like, forecast out what we're going to have to be doing.

as things continue to change and it's really looking at a micro level of of different changes that will take place.

And it's, fascinating and terrifying in some instances.

it makes me really, feel very fortunate to live in the northeast and in this part of the country that is relatively climate safe.

yeah.

but but, yeah, it's just it's all part of the forefront, especially in the last few years, as you know, Hurricane Helene and the horrible wildfire fires out in California recently.

Yeah.

My wife and I moved here from Los Angeles, actually, for climate reasons, a few years back, and we were studying the New York Times climate change map at the time and looking for some areas that would be, you know, relatively safe, though, honestly, you know, Asheville, North Carolina also was on that list, and we know what happened there.

Climate change is already impacting forests from shifting species range, to increased risks of wildfires, as you mentioned, and storms.

Would you say that as we're kind of stepping into the unknown more and more, how does the Ft model account for these growing threats?

You mentioned there is a retreat.

I imagine you're in constant contact with people to assess where we go from here.

Tell us a little bit more about that.

Yeah.

I mean, we can't prevent any of that, but we can guard against it.

Right.

And that's where building that biodiversity and that healthy forest comes in where we have, trees of different sizes, different age classes, different species.

So again, it makes them, less, or more resistant to disease.

You know, if one species gets totally taken out, we didn't put all our eggs in one basket.

You know, there's there's a lot more trees there.

the different sizes creates, you know, a much stronger canopy.

and then again, just reducing those vulnerabilities.

Well, you mentioned when we were talking about the 1 million trees, that there is a such thing as, like a tree clock.

I'm paraphrasing, but one of the criticisms of focusing on reforestation is the idea that we don't have time to wait.

So how long does it take for a reforestation project to start showing measurable benefits for either of you?

I mean, measurable would be within the first year.

That would just be very little.

but yeah, once things really get established and going, you know, as with any project where you're, you know, you're building capacity and something there's, there's a, you know, a relationship there.

a scatter plot.

Charlie, we're going to add something.

You know, I was I was just going to say that, you know, the the farmers that we plant, right?

The easements that we signed there for like 30 or 40 or 50 years.

Right.

Because it it takes a long time for trees to reach maturity.

During that entire time, though, they're sequestering and storing carbon.

So the impact is immediate.

It just gets bigger and bigger right as time goes on.

I loved what you said before, Charlie, about how this topic sort of runs the gamut of the political spectrum and how it's something like so many people can see eye to eye on.

I, you know, not to get too will here, but I lived in Santa Cruz for a year, so I feel like I'm allowed to be woohoo for the rest of my life.

Does it give you hope?

That kind of mentality of like, this is something most people tend to care about?

Or am I just living in a bubble?

And it's not something most people tend to care about.

It absolutely gives me hope because, people can disagree all they want about why climate change is happening, but I think most people recognize that it is happening.

Regardless of how it started.

So, if you if we can all recognize that and recognize that we need to do something about it and not focus on the why so much, even though everybody's got their own opinions on that, then, I see that as common ground.

It's, hey, let's do something about it.

And this is one way to do that.

We got a question from a caller who didn't want to be heard, but he wanted to be heard.

He wants to know how will he can get involved and how your sort of average Joe or Jane can can make an impact, both with your efforts and just in terms of doing their part to minimize damage being done by climate change.

Can both of you take that one?

Yeah, I can start so real quick.

this show is fantastic.

So one of the things that, you know, is very true is that we're learning as we go, right?

I very much appreciate the people who have called in.

we want to make those connections.

Right.

It's really right on the nose for the show.

So if you think you have a way to help us do what we're doing better, or you want to get involved, please reach out to us.

Carbon Forestry trust.org.

You can message us there.

It'll probably be me or Jan.

Right.

And back to you.

And we would love to have that conversation.

So if you want to get involved, it could be as simple as that.

You just reach out to us and say you want to get involved.

Okay.

and and obviously, right.

We're a nonprofit were relatively small.

We're getting started.

We're doing a lot of work, but we need resources.

So, if you'd be willing to make a donation to the trust, that would go directly towards doing our work.

If you have land that you're looking to plant, please come talk to us.

We could evaluate that.

And, Jan, I don't know if anything you'd add to that.

I just want a second.

the appreciation for the folks that have reached out, and I have so much research to do this weekend and all of these groups, I know we can all connect.

It's really amazing.

I mean, when we start to get callers, it's so clear that there is a lot of work being done on the ground.

And Jen, real quick, I, we talked to Charlie already about what gives him hope.

Tell me a little bit about what gives you hope, because you're you're kind of working at the crossroads of something that probably has a whole lot of hope and a whole lot of not hope.

Yeah, I think just the interest, like today, I mean, this is so inspiring and energizing.

hearing people call in, you know, just working day to day with people like Charlie and how genuine and hopeful he is about all of this and actually seeing that we're making a difference.

You know, I'm a I'm a scientist, right?

So I'm like a numbers person.

You know, there's there's a lot of cynic in me.

but to actually go out and see these trees and see the engagement from the communities and from our partners and the donations come in, it's it's just unbelievable fulfilling.

Thank you so much.

Thank you to both of you, Jen Gillen and Charlie Oster from Carbon Forestry Trust.

And I also want to, give a special thanks to Milena Nova marks and Marianne Sullivan for their help today.

That's it for this episode of Environmental Connections.

I really appreciate the callers who called in as well, and I hope that you'll keep the conversation alive.

And and maybe after this conversation, you'll look at those trees in your backyard in a slightly different way.

I'm Jasmin singer.

Until next time, thank you for making today's environmental connection and.

This program is a production of Sky Public Radio.

The views expressed do not necessarily represent those of this station, IT staff, management, or underwriters.

The broadcast is meant for the private use of our audience.

Any rebroadcast or use in another medium without express written consent of Sky is strictly prohibited.

Connections with Evan Dawson is available as a podcast.

Just click on the connections link.

At WXXI news.

Org.