>> From WXXI News.

This is Connections.

I'm Evan Dawson.

Our connection this hour was made with a question as you head to the airport.

What are you wearing?

Airport attire has made headlines recently.

Mainly because the sweatpants and pajamas that so many passengers find comfortable to travel in seem to upset the federal government.

In a new campaign, U.S.

Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy is urging Americans to bring civility back to flights and return to what the Trump administration calls the golden age of travel.

The goal is to restore courtesy and class to air travel.

That's according to Secretary Duffy, who says it's time to put a stop to in-flight outbursts, attacks on flight attendants and different forms of disrespect we may experience when traveling by air.

And one method to show more respect, he says, is to dress up.

I want to listen to Secretary Duffy.

When he was on Fox News recently.

>> People dress up like they're going to bed when they fly.

you know, I see I see people getting on airplanes and they're having a hard time taking their luggage and getting in the oversize or the above bin.

Help people out, be nice, be courteous.

And so we want to push people as we come into a really busy travel season, help people out, be in a good mood, dress up, bring civility back to travel, and I think everyone's experience is going to be that much better.

>> So does he want us wearing like suit and ties?

Well, he said, quote, whether it's a pair of jeans and a decent shirt, I would encourage people to maybe dress a little better.

It encourages us to behave a little better.

Let's try not to wear slippers and pajamas as we come to the airport, unquote.

Would a better dressed plane of passengers inspire better behavior in a more pleasurable travel experience?

In a moment when flight delays and cancellations, air traffic, staffing issues, and the federal government scaling back on refunds for passengers, all that going on, what's going to change the overall experience?

We're going to talk mostly about what we wear in public public fashion this hour.

Our guests are going to have some fun with it.

I hope you know, not going to be too serious.

Elaine Spaull, executive director of the center for youth.

What are you?

The co-founder of Fashion Week.

>> Rochester.

>> And you're always like, the best dressed person.

>> And I'm actually wearing, I don't know what I wear to the airport.

>> That's what I guess what you.

So if you're watching on YouTube, this is what Elaine wears.

>> This is what I wear.

I wear the same pants.

I'm going to talk about them.

So, Evan, I got a lot to say about this because of all the crazy things going on.

This is what he focuses on.

I can't, but so I'm here just to have a blast with you and Zoe and talk a little bit about about how we make sense of this.

You know, one of the things I want to say, the golden age of travel was a peanuts.

We could have peanuts.

The golden age.

You didn't have to take your shoes off, your belt off your pants off, your jacket off, or whatever.

Not your not your pants.

But depending on what you're wearing.

>> Kind of flights.

Were you.

>> On?

The other thing is, I've done a small poll.

I have not seen one act of incivility and I travel a lot, just sort of cross country, warm places.

I see people helping each other every single minute.

The people who misbehave are drinking too much of those little tiny bottles.

I'm just saying that's the behavior thing.

So we'll talk about that.

And also, where is he getting his.

So let's talk about all that.

And do we call him Commissioner Duffy?

>> I think it's Secretary.

>> Secretary Duffy okay.

>> Secretary Duffy.

So we're going to I've got two different directions.

We're going to take it.

Elaine, I'm with you there.

Okay.

ë Kuehn a comedy writer, performer and visual artist.

Great to have you.

And you don't have to speak for all 20 somethings this hour.

But I do want you to know that to some degree, you're going to be the voice of Gen Z, right?

>> Yes, I am in Gen Z and I have some opinions about this issue for sure.

But I do think that I have the overall opinion that my generation has for the most part.

>> Which is what the elastic waistbands forever.

>> Yeah, maybe.

Okay.

>> Okay.

Comfort over.

>> Comfort over looking nice.

>> Okay.

Can you do both?

>> You can do both.

And I think that I do both, but it's not my top priority.

My top priority is being comfortable because nowadays we have so many flights that are delayed.

Whether I'm sitting in the chair, on the plane or in the airport.

So I feel like about half the time there's some sort of delay that you're not expecting.

And I would like to be comfortable when that ultimately happens.

>> I mean, I think that is a very fair point, I have to say.

And I feel like there's there's two things that we should kind of bifurcate this.

First of all, I think there's a fair question about public fashion at the airport, on planes, but also in public, you know, in general, which we're going to talk about.

And then there's the question of whether this is the solution to the air issue, because when you look at surveys of Americans, to Elaine's point, people are stressed.

People don't trust that their flights are going to be on time.

They expect, as Zoe said, they expect delays.

Now they're frustrated.

They think they're getting nickeled and dimed with fees.

And the idea that the transportation secretary is like, well, you're the problem, travelers.

If you all just improve your attitude and you dress nicer, this will all just go away.

I, I think that's separate from the what should we dress like in public?

And I would say, you seem to think that that is a tone deaf response.

>> So here's one of the things I think that we respond to circumstances.

We're not blaming COVID.

We're not blaming 9/11.

But think about the changes.

So we were told, take off your shoes.

All right.

If you're going to take off your shoes and you don't want to be barefoot in the airport, because who knows what you might step in, right?

You are going to wear something that slips on and off, aka slippers, shoes that are comfortable.

I'm wearing boots.

I'm going to put my leg up.

Okay?

Because these are boots that.

Sorry, sorry.

No.

I'm good.

We made friends downstairs.

She didn't know about me, so I'm all good.

This is great.

So she has no preconceived.

Very good is.

>> So good.

>> You're gonna have an idea.

>> In an hour, I trust.

>> So.

Okay, so that's the.

The other thing is.

Take off your belt.

Take off my belt.

Okay, so now I'm taking off my shoes.

So I'm going to look at something that doesn't have a belt.

So I've been told by the airlines and by Secretary Duffy and his folks wear something that has an elastic waist.

It's easier.

You don't have to take your belt off.

You don't have to take your.

So you're taking you're telling us what to do.

The other thing is you're playing with us because airports now have rocking chairs all over them.

Charlotte is the most famous.

I don't know if you've been in Charlotte Airport.

There's rows and rows of of of rocking chairs.

And then also soft piano music.

So you basically feel like you're in your living room just relaxing.

So the airlines are encouraging us to relax, to take it easy to wear comfortable shoes.

You can slip on and off to wear pants that don't need a belt.

And then all of a sudden we're blamed for acting badly because we're wearing athleisure wear, which apparently you think you're wearing today.

But you are not.

>> This is not athleisure.

>> No, that's a hoodie.

That's.

Do you work out in that?

>> No.

>> Okay.

That's a lovely hoodie.

Sort of a waffle design.

>> I don't I can't even tell if you like it or are you condemning.

>> I like it.

No, I do like it.

It's okay.

I think it's good because I don't think you usually wear light, light colors like that, do you?

Are you like.

>> I don't think about that often.

>> I know you don't.

Okay.

Anyway, so I think we're taking we're taking our cues from the airlines.

We're taking our cues from people saying, oh, by the way, I always check my bags.

I believe in it.

Nobody else wants to do that.

When you check a bag.

I just did it a couple of weeks ago.

They say, is there anything important in this bag that you might need when you get there, in case it doesn't make it?

That's what they're saying.

So all of a sudden, the old golden days, you know, people don't check bags because it costs $45 and they get lost.

>> Absolutely.

>> So we're taking our cues from the airlines.

>> If I could just say to Elaine's point, a lot of what you're describing did change after 9/11.

It did.

It was a set of security measures that changed after 9/11, because there was even that, I think the Richard Reid, the shoe.

>> The shoe.

>> The shoe bomber.

Right, right.

You know, so which was, I think, a failed attempt to conceal something in someone's shoe.

So we're still doing that.

We're taking our shoes off.

We're taking the belts off.

We're taking jewelry off.

Are you showing up at the airport?

>> Tintinnabulate like this when I. I only have one earring today because the other one's lost.

But I was covering my hair so you couldn't see it.

Okay, I wear no jewelry at all.

I take off this, I take off.

I don't want to be messed.

>> Right.

So.

So the point is, you look elegant.

Nice here today on the show, right?

>> This is how I travel.

>> But you're saying you wouldn't wear that jewelry to the airport?

>> Because I wouldn't, because I'm going to bling everything off, right.

And so.

>> Yeah, I think you're making an important point about the dissonance in the messaging to the public, which is you're going to have to go through all this for security, but also maybe wear a suit and tie when you do it.

>> Yeah.

So the other thing I want to say, and then I really want to hear from Zoe and the young perspective is, the flights in Rochester, of course, if you're trying to get somewhere to connect, you're going to take a 615.

6:00 flight, right, even to New York City.

So that means you have to be there at five.

That means you have to get up at four.

You know, you're not dialing up.

I always take a shower first.

I don't care what time of the day it is, but most people are just like getting out the door, right?

So there's that.

The other thing, of course, is that there was absolutely no data Secretary Duffy that tells me that the misbehavior is.

I mean, I would like to know what survey, what data he has or they have that tells us those are the people.

My guess is it has to do with alcohol and maybe with people having, again, a mistake in the airlines.

And you both have the same seat.

Have you ever been on a flight when someone said, that's my seat.

Yeah.

And you're like, you know, no, it's my seat.

And I'm like, no, no, it's my seat.

And then they say, well, I wanted to sit with my wife.

Would you mind moving over and guess what happens 99% of the time?

The guy says, sure, let me just move over.

Yeah.

I mean, there's so much it's like one of the most civil places, I think, because you're in this sort of trapped together.

>> I don't disagree with that.

I think, well.

>> I want to say one more thing about civility.

I was on a flight coming back on the Wednesday before Thanksgiving.

It was an American flight.

We were all put on the flight, and then we sat there and finally the flight attendant came on and said, we want to tell you why we're not leaving.

We have five passengers coming from other flights that are late.

This is the last flight to Rochester.

If we leave without them, they won't be home on Thanksgiving.

Yeah.

Should we wait for them the entire.

Heaven?

No, I didn't say that.

>> No.

Careful.

>> You said Evan.

>> You said Evan.

>> Evan.

Plane said.

Yeah, except my husband, who said they could take a train.

No, he didn't really say that.

Everyone said yes.

Wait for it.

>> Wait for them.

It was the right thing to do.

>> Talk about civility.

>> I'm actually.

I've never seen that happen on a plane before.

And I'm amazed that that doesn't happen more often.

Because when other flights are delayed and people are running through the airport running, and then I have gotten there.

The years ago, I, I got to a door and they're like, well, the door is closed.

I'm like, the plane is right there.

I'm looking at the plane.

It's not going anywhere.

Exactly.

I'm like, yeah, but we closed the door.

I'm like, is the door magic?

>> No.

So the most civil incivility is that a word comes from the flight attendants.

>> From the.

>> Staff, from staff.

Anyway, so I thought that was a measure I wanted to.

>> I love that story.

>> It's a true story.

It happened because everyone was saying, these folks will not be home for Thanksgiving.

Let's wait.

>> For an entire plane.

>> Of entire.

>> Plane said, we will wait.

>> We will wait.

>> So our fellow Americans can get home to their families.

Yeah.

And I would just say about the incivility that Duffy's talking about, there are incidents that go viral in our viral age.

Right.

But that is not representative of every flight or even most.

>> And do we have a photo of what they were wearing when they pushed or shoved or something?

>> Well, okay.

All right.

>> So okay, that's enough for me for now.

>> So ë Kuehn.

>> Yes.

>> The secretary wants you to dress up.

>> I'm not going to do that.

Okay?

>> Okay.

>> I just I want to be comfortable.

I want to be able to sit crisscross applesauce on the plane, be in pants that I can do that with, and I, I don't want to think about the person next to me, but I'm not going to be wearing pajamas.

I haven't actually seen anyone wear pajamas.

>> Oh, come on.

>> I haven't seen them.

>> On an airplane.

>> No, I haven't, and I've traveled a lot, but I, I will wear sweatpants and a T-shirt and layers.

I'm all for layers on a plane.

>> Very smart, because the temperature changes are wild.

>> Yes.

So my go to outfit is always.

And before I would come from Chicago, which is always very cold, especially in the winter, and then going somewhere else like Florida where it's really hot.

I would always dress in some type of sweatpants, a T-shirt, and then a giant hoodie over it that I take off or put back on on the plane.

>> Okay.

Is there is there one place that we can draw a line together here?

Zoe, I'm with you on the comfort.

>> Yes.

>> Can we make sure that no one takes their socks off?

I don't need.

>> Bare feet.

So gross.

>> Okay.

Do you agree with that?

Yes.

That's where the lines got to be.

>> You take my shoes off.

>> You want to wear sweatpants, wear them, but keep your feet even.

Flip flops on your feet.

I don't need bare bottom feet anywhere on a plane.

>> No, no.

>> They get on the plane barefooted, or.

>> They know they take them off.

>> I have an experience.

>> Taking your shoes off is one thing.

You've got socks, your socks, taking your socks off.

Have you seen this before?

Has this happened?

>> But if it did.

>> Federal crime.

>> Yeah, it would be bad.

>> You want to really change America?

Sean Duffy make that a crime.

>> Yeah.

Who's doing that?

>> I think people do it.

I've seen it.

>> I'm sure they do.

Because I've seen at security when they have to take their shoes off and it's their bare feet.

And I'm just thinking, oh, this is a cesspool.

Like you are going to get.

>> Oh, you're worried for them?

>> I am, but it's disgusting.

>> You're worried for.

>> You too, because at least in the security line, we're not like in close proximity to each other on a plane with, like, limited airflow.

But when we're sitting right next to each other, I'm going to be able to smell that.

It's disgusting.

>> I'm with you there.

I'm with you there.

ë Kuehn.

Now I, I want to close the book on an important point here that is like the only really actually hard, newsy part of this, which is that I'm looking at a story from NBC news in just a couple of weeks ago, November 17th, and I'm going to read from the story.

Now, the Trump administration has officially withdrawn a proposal that would have compensated airline passengers for significant delays caused by issues within a carrier's control.

Though the move was announced in September, the Transportation Department formalized it in the Federal Register on Monday.

It said it was withdrawing the advance notice of proposed rulemaking that was submitted under the Biden administration.

Under the Biden era plan, passengers would have received reimbursements based on how long the delays lasted.

The scale began at $200, went up to $775 for delays that lasted at least nine hours.

The proposal would have aligned U.S.

regulation more closely with airline rules in Europe and other.

A spokesperson for the transportation department said that the Biden era proposal does not reflect the compensation consumers are currently entitled to with respect to delays and cancellations.

So there's a disagreement here.

The Trump administration is saying if you guys get delayed, you're supposed to get compensated.

>> Yeah.

>> But the Biden administration was saying, we want this codified and we want a sliding scale to say, if it's an hour, it's 200 bucks.

If it's nine up to nine hours, 775 and it's a sliding scale, Europe does it the same way.

Trump administration said no.

And so now it's much murkier.

>> Yeah.

>> And in my mind, if you want a signal to air travelers I mean like I'm with Zoe, we should keep our feet covered.

But also, don't you want a guarantee of compensation if you kind of get impacted in that way?

And it's the carrier's fault?

>> Yeah, I think that in a sense, the fashion argument is taking away from all of the disruption.

Yes.

A huge distraction from all of the other issues we have going on right now with the airports and the planes taking off at the right times or wrong times.

There are so many delays.

People should get compensated.

And how are they supposed to afford a hotel if their flight gets canceled or delayed >>?

I think that it is just a huge distraction.

It's a ploy.

>> It's a ploy.

It's a distraction.

>> You know the other thing?

Yeah.

The other thing that has been thinking a lot about because I have like Global Entry TSA thing.

Okay.

So you go through something once and then you're forever forgiven for taking off belts, hats, shoes.

You can have change in your pocket like you have a free pass.

I don't I don't get how that makes.

I'm not sure how that works.

So one time we go through, we pay.

You have to pay.

So it has it has a class system.

It has a class issue for me to it as well.

So this whole TSA Global entry, you get to go quickly or you can buy something.

There's another kind of thing we bought once I think we were in a hurry.

And then you don't have to, do you?

They're just going to carry you on the plane so you can buy your way on, which doesn't make sense to me in terms of if security is the issue.

You know, again, I'm with Zoe.

Let's talk about behaviors.

Let's talk about mental health challenges.

Let's talk about how people are feeling these days.

Let's talk about alcohol abuse on planes.

Let's talk about there's not a lot of food on planes.

let's talk about the fact that if you're stuck for seven hours, you're not supposed to use the bathroom.

I mean, there's just lots of stuff going on, you know, you you're trying to fix something that is not what's broken.

And that seems to be a pattern of perhaps this administration or just the world we live in right now.

Let's fix what's wrong.

Why are people feeling certain ways?

Why are they feeling stressed?

Because there's flights that don't make it that crap.

Whatever.

So it's not because I'm wearing the only thing I will tell you.

And I know everyone loves a Buffalo Bills and I'm, I'm I'm a fan as well.

I don't actually watch the games, but I think I always want them to win.

Always, every second of every Sunday, Thursday, whatever.

>> Are you running for office?

>> I'm not running for office, but I'm going to tell you those red, blue, white striped pants that are built, they need to stay at home.

Yeah, nobody.

>> That's controversial.

I don't know, because they're popular, but they look nobody.

>> Well.

>> They look like pajama pants.

>> Maybe Megan Mack would look good in them, but nobody else in the world would look good in those.

I don't care who you are.

Maybe Josh himself, but.

So there are some things I'm with you guys about.

Some things just to stay home.

They shouldn't be.

They shouldn't be in Wegmans.

They shouldn't be.

Maybe an urgent care.

>> Well, on that point.

>> Do you know what I'm talking about?

>> Those pants you're talking about.

And as somebody horrific newer to the Rochester area, I will say that my family members and other people that visit will see the bills signs all over the place and bills flags.

And they think for a second, oh, I think this is a flag for something else.

But they they don't know that.

That's just for the bills because of the colors and the like font.

So I think that for a lot of I don't know if foreigners is the right word, but people that aren't from the Rochester area, they see those colors and they think, oh, I'm not thinking of the bills right now, I don't know.

This is a sports thing.

It's more like supporting the administration.

>> Oh, maybe.

>> Because, yeah.

>> The.

>> Colors because of the colors and the fonts.

And so I've, I've thought that about the flags until you realize, oh, it's for the bills.

Yeah.

I can.

>> Take a, I mean bills gear is, is fine.

There's lots of it jackets.

But those pants in particular not so good okay.

>> So I want to I'm going to read a few emails.

Now listeners, if you want to join the conversation as we talk about what you wear on a plane, what you wear in public, if the standards need to change, and if this is the right prescription to fix what's going on on the airlines.

it's 844295 talk toll free.

8442958255263 WXXI.

If you're in Rochester.

2639994, email the program Connections at wxxi.org.

You can join the conversation if you're watching on YouTube.

On the chat there, I have to say, I don't think I've seen those striped bills pants on the runway at Fashion Week.

>> You have not.

>> I don't think.

>> I have.

>> That's right.

this is from Alex in the village of Webster.

Who says the engineers at Boeing and Airbus have squeezed so much space out of economy class seats that you need to be wearing Jett Mehta or PJs to get into the seat.

If the if the person in front of you leans their seat back and has the volume turned on their earbuds up, you get to listen to what they are listening to and watch what they are watching on their phone.

If you are affluent enough to book ultra premium class on a really long flight, I think the airline actually provides PJs.

Alex from the village of Webster.

That's that's interesting.

So the actual space and individual seats has declined.

It has shrunk.

>> Yeah, yeah.

Have you all right.

Have you guys ever been in a flight and there's, like, a seat?

Like, I always have to be in the middle, which is so annoying because my husband is always on the aisle.

Okay, so you're there, you have an empty seat, and you watch people walk toward you and you say, oh, no, please, not that person.

Yes.

No, please, not that person.

Oh, please, not that person.

Mostly because they're they're tall.

you know, like big, like not fat.

Not fat.

I'm just saying.

>> Big framed big taking a lot of.

>> Big, tall men.

And I'm like, oh, no, please, please.

>> Because six.

>> Foot eight, so six, seven, there was a basketball player who was seven nine.

Did you see that?

That poor guy.

Anyway, he's not getting on our flight.

He's got his own jet.

>> I think that's about right.

>> But you do see you're squeezed.

So, you know, having like, even a nice something, you're going to be shoved in.

the other thing is they're pretending to give us food.

Those little cookies.

I think they they're.

>> Pretending to give us food.

>> Well, they call it biscotti.

It's not a biscotti.

You know what a biscotti, the Biscoff, it's like.

No, I don't want that.

And I also don't want pretzels.

>> I disagree.

>> You like those.

>> Little cookies, okay?

>> You do.

>> Like I'm someone that has a nut allergy.

>> Oh, geez.

>> Okay, but I can have peanuts, and, yeah, I can have.

>> A nut allergy, but peanuts is.

>> Peanuts is okay.

And now almonds and pine nuts are okay.

>> So what?

Can't you have a cashew?

>> I can't have cashews, walnuts, hazelnut, Brazil nut.

Like everything else.

>> You need to pack.

>> A lunch.

Yeah, I know, and they've.

They've yelled at me on the flights, the flight attendants because I've been like, are there any nuts in this?

And they're like, you really should have picked the other option, honey.

Like, but I have such an appreciation for those Biscoff cookies because my dad is dairy free.

They don't have dairy.

Like there are a good option for anyone that has food allergies except for gluten.

>> I think Elon is simply saying that it used to be a little bit more of a substantial food offering.

>> Yes.

>> That might be.

>> True, yes, but how about they come over with a tray of water?

Did you ever see that?

>> What's going on?

Zoe's like.

Well, I never experienced that.

So it's.

>> For me.

>> No, but remember what Transportation Secretary Duffy is telling us.

We want to go back to the golden age.

The golden age has all other kinds of perks, including free baggage.

>> And you could take scissors on the plane.

>> And.

>> You could do little crafts.

>> You could do crafts on the plane and.

>> Probably bring swords if you wanted.

>> You could have you could have a water bottle on the plane.

I mean, I you know, it's just that the whole notion.

And I think Zoe's right, it's a ploy to distract us from what's really going on with people in travel.

People want to get from A to B quickly and safely, and what they're wearing is the least of the concern.

>> And I will say, Elaine, last hour we had comedian Kamau Bell on the show and he obviously travels a lot.

And he said, look, the golden era of travel, to your point, it was new.

It was luxury.

Yes.

Now it's like a Greyhound bus in the sky.

Yeah.

You're going to be I mean, that's why he's great.

It's like he just nailed it, right?

He was adorable.

>> We were watching him downstairs a little bit.

Yeah.

>> Like there's there's no no offense to Greyhound, but you're probably not wearing a suit and tie right on purpose on a greyhound.

Right.

And you don't have to wear a suit and tie in the sky.

>> And you know, when I, when we go to New York City, we have lots of folks and friends there.

We drive now because by the time you get there an hour early, it takes you an hour to get back from Kennedy to wherever.

I mean, you just might as well drive.

You can do it in five hours and 15 minutes.

If you're Malcolm's.

Paul, I, I just think that travel sometimes you need to do it and you want to do it.

It used to be fun.

It used to be really exciting.

it's it's just like, just get me from A to B, and, you know, I think that people, the respect people have for each other, I just have not seen somebody struggle with a bag and nobody helping them.

I'll tell you the other thing.

There's always a guy that is by the when the when the baggage comes down after you're there and you land, it takes forever in Rochester.

But it does finally show up.

There's always a guy who's there taking them.

He's just like watching to help everybody.

Like there's that guy.

Like, if one falls over, he puts it up and he makes sure the handle is out.

It's just a guy.

People help each other.

>> It's nice.

>> Don't you?

Do you see that?

>> And Elaine, you're the person who looks for the helpers.

You want to be a helper?

>> I am the helper.

>> Sometimes you.

>> Are helpers.

>> Yeah, I just, I what I appreciate in this moment is you reminding us that, yes, we've seen the viral videos of people who lose their mind on flights.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah, but there's a lot of good people.

out there who.

>> Care about so many more.

The other thing that happens is sometimes you're sitting there and you really just want to read your book, and there's a chatty person next to you.

And so you chat and I'm probably could be that chatty person, but you have to just graciously let them because maybe they're nervous.

So, you know, there's a community on a plane.

Think of it, there's 48 people, 52 people kind of stuck together hoping we get there safely, sort of on a journey.

I don't I just don't see the drama.

He's talking about.

>> Well, the Department of Transportation says since 2019, the FAA has seen a 400% increase of in-flight outbursts.

>> But what do you mean?

Do they punch somebody, or do they just.

Were they sad?

>> It's everything from punching to just yelling.

>> Yelling.

>> Disruptive behavior.

So.

>> have you seen it?

Yes.

Have you been on a flight?

No.

Me neither.

>> I don't think so.

>> Yeah.

Zoe.

Have you?

>> I have been on a flight.

Not where that happened, but where people were being maybe too nice.

Oh, and this was the weirdest experience.

It was somebody's birthday in, like, three days.

It wasn't even their actual birthday.

And the flight attendants had them come up to the front of the plane, and they had all the lights for you were supposed to hit the light for the flight attendants to come by.

at the same time.

And then unhit it so that they would blow out the candles.

The person at the front was supposed to blow out the candles.

And what was what was.

>> The flight attendant wearing?

I'm just worried about that person.

I don't know, but.

And that dress was too tight.

>> Flight attendants that were just just.

>> Yeah.

No.

>> So rude.

A lot of flight attendants that were very rude and then some that are so funny on the mix and they make the trip a lot better.

>> So it's, it's it is a I understand that people are stressed and how we categorize a disruptive behavior is probably maybe contributing to the increase in incidence.

But people are stressed.

I think even if we are seeing more outbursts.

I'm with Elaine.

I think most people want to help people.

Most people want to be kind.

Most people are probably like Zoe.

They just kind of want to get the flight and not be bothered.

But they're not going to be unkind, right?

You're not going to be actively hostile to people.

>> But I like it when they do talk to me.

Like I really do like it when people talk to me because my generation.

>> Even a stranger sitting.

>> Next to you.

Yes.

Yeah.

My generation, like we don't talk to each other.

So if somebody is.

>> You're how old?

20.

>> 23, 23.

>> And you will have just strike up a conversation on a plane with.

>> A stranger.

It's happened to me a few times.

Good for you.

And one of them.

Well, it's usually them initiating, but because of something I've done or was watching, like I was watching Columbo and some guy next to me was like, I didn't know you knew what that was like.

>> And all of a sudden, like, did we just become best friends?

>> Yeah, and it was just nice.

So he was telling me about all the because I was going to California, how the how the wind affects the temperature and all the different places.

>> Oh, he's he's gonna explain the world to you.

>> Yes.

But it is interesting because I'm somebody that likes to write, and writers need experiences and experiences talking to somebody you wouldn't normally talk to.

So.

>> So why do you think your generation, if you think it's accurate, that your generation is less likely to talk to people in public, less likely to talk to people who are considered, quote, unquote strangers, why is that?

>> It is so much to do with the phones.

Yes, because yes, we we've grown up on the phones.

I mean, I was in fourth grade when the iPod touch was big.

So from that point on, I've pretty much been addicted to like YouTube and all of these apps, and they've found that, like people around my age all have depression and anxiety.

Not everybody, but a lot because of the phones.

>> Do you wish that you had grown up in an era without all this tech?

>> Yeah, I don't really remember much of my life pre phones.

I remember my parents sharing one flip phone which other people?

they probably had iPhones, but my parents didn't want to do that.

And I'm grateful for that.

But I don't remember much before that iPod touch.

I really don't.

>> Remarkable.

No, I mean, you are kind of a throwback.

I will say, Zoe.

Yeah, I think it's cool.

and when we come back from our only break, I've got a phone call I'll take from Barbara.

I've got a pile of email to read here.

Some interesting comparisons.

we're just going to talk about again where we're drawing fashion lines here.

I think we're making progress.

I think we're doing a good job.

ë Kuehn Elaine Spaull with us as we talk about what the Secretary of Transportation wants us to do, which is dress up nice when you fly to maybe solve the problems of air travel.

We're going to keep keep at it and see what we can solve in the next 20 minutes.

On Connections.

I'm Evan Dawson, host of Connections.

We bring you in-depth conversations with newsmakers, with people from all backgrounds and points of view in our community.

And it's a chance for you in the audience to join the conversation in various ways.

Two hours every weekday.

We're proud to bring you these conversations, and we look forward to joining you next time on Connections.

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>> Connections.

I'm Evan Dawson I'm wearing.

I thought athleisure, I guess.

Just a hoodie.

>> Yeah.

It's gorgeous.

You're fine, I like it.

You like it?

Yeah.

>> Like it's kind of like a mix between a sweater and a hoodie.

>> That's right.

It's got a waffle.

>> More formal.

>> Okay, there we go.

>> Very formal.

What do you have a, like, a T-shirt under?

What do you.

I'm just wondering.

>> I, I, I'm getting.

I'm not giving you anything that goes beyond.

>> The surface.

You're on my side.

>> I mean, look, I mean, ratings would go up, but we're going to leave it at the surface.

>> Okay?

But you look good.

We both agree.

>> I agree, Barbara and Brighton on the phone.

Hey, Barbara.

Go ahead.

>> Hey, there.

I just have two quick things to say.

not that I'm agreeing with the the administration of the airports, but all I can tell you is that every year when I used to take the eighth grade on their trip to Washington, one of the things we did was a dinner theater, and they all dressed up, and they behaved so beautifully because they were dressed up and they felt like grown ups, you know?

And so they were watching how they behaved.

So I just throw that in for, for discussion.

And the second comment is that once I came back from Europe on Japan Airlines and oh, my God, you could eat off the floor.

It was so freaking clean.

And the young women were wearing obis, for God's sake.

And they fed us and they kept bringing tea and and they brought wine and they I mean, it was just the most marvelous experience.

And then I got back to the States, transferred to an unnamed, you know, airline from the U.S.

It was horrible.

It was filthy.

The the workers were completely rude.

I asked one fellow after about 15 minutes you know, do you think they could heat it up a little bit?

I don't control that.

I mean, you wouldn't believe.

And so my attitude is, when they shape up, I'll shape up, boy.

>> All right.

Yeah.

Barbara.

Thank you.

So different.

So, have you flown internationally?

Do you see those differences?

>> Yeah.

You know, the other thing is, Barbara is so right.

You know, I work the center.

I run the center.

Well, I work at the Center for Youth a lot of 400 more amazing people.

And we do have dress up days.

We take kids places.

We took them to visit HBCUs.

We took them, and we asked them to bring one nice outfit for a nice dinner that I totally agree with.

Barbara, that's a special occasion.

You're treated beautifully.

You know, a lot of our young people have never been.

I remember once I took some young women to a restaurant and they said, oh, my gosh, Miss Elaine, they're going to let us eat before we pay.

I mean, it was a whole new experience, right?

Lovely, amazing experience.

So yeah, that's a special dress up in Barbara's.

Right.

but I think that's there have been a couple responses to Secretary Duffey, and that is exactly what Barbara is saying.

When they get it right, we'll get it right.

And for right now, also the plane, the American flights are not as clean, even though I know they try.

so why would you want to put like, your best anything on one of those seats?

So yeah, I'm thankful that Barbara for also for her taking those kids out.

That was terrific.

>> For sure.

I had, flown in Japan and Korea recently, and the difference is between here and there with even with security and baggage, especially baggage was very different from here.

And you notice that a lot of people, they take these really tiny bags and they check them there.

But we're not doing that here.

I don't know if it's like the pricing, but you cannot have a bag that's like it's like the size of a suitcase.

And they're checking that.

>> I mean, I, I you're right.

Maybe it's pricing.

I mean, I if I want to fix the airlines, I want to get online and see a ticket price.

Yeah.

And I would like to pay that price.

>> Yes.

Oh my gosh.

>> So here's a flight for 290 bucks okay.

And then you click through for 50.

>> Right.

>> Okay.

>> What happened.

Because you had to buy your seat.

>> You had to buy your seat.

You had to pay for an extra bag.

Yeah.

Whatever.

I mean, all these nickel and dime things.

I know it's why the Savannah bananas are a hot item in the entertainment scene.

Because if you buy a shirt on their website for 30 bucks, you know what you pay?

You pay 30.

Yeah, you don't even pay.

They're eating the taxes.

Yeah.

So people want to know what they're paying.

That's what gets people upset.

I'm sorry.

Yeah.

Now I'm upset.

but I have a ton of great feedback, so let me work through a couple of these, okay?

A couple of the pushbacks here.

Okay.

This is from Charles.

He says, Evan, I'm pretty sure the secretary was just just meaning it as a general.

Don't be a slob.

Guidance.

If people are flying in pajama pants and slippers, it's probably time for the pendulum to swing back.

It's from Charles.

Okay.

Fair.

And Patrick says I'm 42 years old.

Never, ever, ever have I stepped on a plane with sweatpants or some other rig up polyester.

unless I was on a plane with my parents.

And he said, kids, these kids these days take for granted too much.

And, yes, it should stop.

That is from Patrick.

And then Tom sends a note bringing us all back to Seinfeld.

The wisdom of Seinfeld.

Jerry Seinfeld famously told George Costanza, you know the message you're sending to the world when you go out in those sweatpants, you're telling the world, I give up.

I can't compete in normal society.

I'm miserable, so I might as well be comfortable.

>> Yeah.

>> He says.

Season four, episode 23.

Thank you Tom.

That's somebody who knows the Seinfeld.

So that's to me, sweatpants would have been the dividing line.

Now I think it's pajama pants.

Yeah I think there's a difference.

>> There is a huge.

>> What's the difference, Zoe?

>> Well, if you can see like the pattern clearly and you know, the the ends aren't tucked in like they're not I don't know, there's no elastic on the bottoms.

I think that's usually the pajama pants when they have that pattern.

And they got the button down shirt to go with it.

That's what I'm picturing with pajamas.

Not just like some comfortable sweatpants.

>> I think.

Yeah, I think pajama pants is different than sweatpants.

Yeah.

So you're good with sweatpants?

Not with PJs.

>> Yeah, but at the same time, I think it's a reflection on the fact that we have to wait so long for everything.

>> I don't disagree with that.

I will say, though, Zoe, take it out of the airport, go to the mall, go anywhere in public.

I will find.

And I'm not criticizing.

I'm observing.

Yeah.

People your age, not all of them, but a significant number are definitely wearing just flat out pajama pants in public.

Is that good with you?

>> I don't think that they should be doing it, but I feel like I've done that once or twice.

>> Okay.

You know, I don't mean like, let's gotta run to the gas station for some milk.

I mean, like going out for the day.

>> Oh, not for the day.

No, no, not for the day.

But I have gone to, like, the grocery store later.

I mean, like, in my PJs.

>> I, I think that's categorically different than I'm intending to go out.

>> In public.

That's a quick run, a quick a quick as a quick one.

>> You get away with it.

You're like, I hope no one recognizes me in out, whatever.

Yeah, but that's different.

>> I will say for a time I was working as a paralegal and I was going into the courthouse and my my lawyer boss would tell me, like when I was talking about, oh, what should I wear to the courthouse?

He was saying, oh, just don't wear sweatpants or pajama pants.

Yeah.

And I was thinking, like, who do you think I am?

>> Like the fact that you had to give me this instruction.

>> Yeah, I was thinking jeans.

Okay.

Or, you know, we need dress pants.

>> Jeans used to be.

so out of bounds in restaurants.

>> Oh my gosh.

So we.

>> Jeans are, like, formal.

>> For restaurants center for example.

We said you can only wear jeans on Wednesdays because we were not in schools on that day.

>> This is now or.

>> Then it was started then and, and sort of still true now.

We were jeans on Wednesdays.

People wear jeans other days.

But we started letting people wear jeans more often because everybody we were trying to set a good model for kids and teachers.

They were wearing jeans.

I, I do think there's nothing like dressing up.

Let me just say that.

And I think that every young person really loves the opportunity to dress up.

And one of the things we know about Rochester is there's more and more cool places to go and dress up and feel really special.

So but and it can be just a plain black pair of pants and a black shirt.

I always tell people, if you wear black, you're good, by the way, because I wear black a lot, it's just easy.

It's.

But, you know, we don't want to judge.

I don't want to be judging of people.

I want people to understand that, you know, in some ways, what we wear is our First Amendment right to.

Let's talk a little bit about that.

We do have the right to express ourselves.

but the airline thing, I'd like to put that aside because I think he's I think he's wrong about that.

And I don't think there's good data to support that.

I'm not saying that people haven't been less kind or more stressed because of the world around them.

I'm not sure it's related to the to what they're wearing.

>> And can I just hit a couple of points on that?

because we have so much email, I can just read this all day.

Okay.

So to the point about what's actually driving the bad behavior on airlines.

Yeah.

Tim says my cousin was an attendant for many years and he got to travel all over the world, but he left the business three years ago because between the alcohol.

>> Yes.

>> And a general decline in courtesy, some flights have become dangerous.

You're 30,000ft in the air.

People.

So, yeah, but Tim is not pointing to dress code.

He's pointing to alcohol.

>> Exactly.

>> So that's that's a.

>> Big one.

Exactly.

>> but then this is something that I think.

Elaine, I want you to talk about here, okay?

I think what you're saying about the reason to dress up is not to be exclusionary, but to help people see themselves in a really cool and fun and different way.

Yeah.

The problem becomes, and I'm sure you'll agree with this, this is Laura and Victor.

Laura and Victor says it is important to acknowledge that dress code standards are sometimes inequitably applied to passengers according to their race.

It is at the discretion of the flight attendant, and there have been instances of people of color removed from flights due to what they were wearing, and it brought up the serious question of if this was a racially discriminatory decision on the part of an airline.

That's a very good point.

>> I think, you know, we've seen that a lot in terms of even young people being not allowed to go certain places.

There's always that.

There's always the, the, you know, the microaggressions.

You don't really it's not as blatant, but it does have an underlying message of you just you're not really wanted here.

You're not accepted here, you know?

So I think, you know, one of the reasons a lot of charter schools and other schools have dress codes and uniforms often has been it's kind of an equalizer in terms of what kids were.

I think it saves time in the morning.

I mean, you know, I just I think that we do want people to self-express we want people to be able to be who they are wherever they are.

but there are those little microaggressions that no one, even realizes until you feel it.

And I think that's where you get down a path of maybe having just not an honest reaction to someone based on something else.

>> Right.

And so I think what I have observed in what you and the team have done for Fashion Week over the years is try to take fashion from being exclusionary line that can discriminate and instead help people see, hey, have fun and express yourself and see yourself in.

>> A different way.

I can wear that.

I can do that.

>> I can pull that off.

I can do that.

I can see myself.

That is a different set of things.

Yeah.

So let me ask you then, as someone who knows Rochester's restaurants.

Yes, 20 years ago, 30 years ago, there were places you couldn't go in jeans.

couldn't go.

There's nowhere you can't go in jeans anymore.

Is that good with you?

>> And jeans?

>> A T-shirt to.

>> Ball caps.

Baseball.

Baseball caps are tough for me.

>> Not a fan.

>> I don't think you should wear hats when you eat.

That's just my thing.

In our house.

You can't.

But all the men in my life like to wear baseball caps.

Even my husband.

But I don't think you should be wearing a hat.

That's just me.

You shouldn't be wearing a hat when you eat.

>> So jeans and a T-shirt.

>> Jeans?

>> There's some nice T-shirts, by.

>> The way.

There's some nice T-shirts.

There's some really.

You know, jeans cost $350.

I mean, they're more expensive than than dress up pants or suits.

So I think good jeans, creased jeans, nice jeans, clean jeans.

I think clean is more of a descriptor that we should be looking for than fancy or something.

I mean, one of the things that he was alluding to is that people were dirty on planes.

I don't I don't know that that's true.

And then how does he know?

Yeah.

so I think, you know, again, self-expression there was a time there was a bunch of Supreme Court cases about, you know, people that wanted to have dreads and couldn't have dreads and people in the military who had to cut their.

>> Hair 100%.

>> And all that stuff.

Right?

So and the reason they prevailed in the courts, and, you know, I studied constitutional law, and it was because it was a self it was a First Amendment right.

Right.

where does your First Amendment right begin to impose on other people?

Zoe said something really important when you're watching a screen on a plane by example, you're watching a film.

It may say, this has images that may offend the person sitting next to you.

Yeah.

Have you ever seen that?

Yeah.

It's like like you're watching.

Be careful.

Or watch it or watch the sound or something.

I thought that was an interesting reaction to the fact that you're in a group experience.

>> Yeah.

>> You're basically in a group experience.

Yeah.

Keep your shoes on.

Keep your socks on.

>> And and be mindful.

>> And be mindful.

>> Absolutely.

>> When you go out, when you go out to a restaurant.

>> Yes.

>> What is the mindset on what you wear?

>> I obviously it does depend on the restaurant.

If it's like a little dive burger joint, like.

>> Nondiabetic Nondiabetic.

>> That doesn't matter.

But if I'm actually going out to sit down restaurant with service, I want to look nice.

I enjoy dressing up.

I'm somebody that does enjoy dressing up.

I enjoy doing my makeup, I enjoy being presentable.

I guess even though I'm doing it for myself and not for other people.

For the most part.

But I will say there are some behaviors that I was taught that I have met people around my age that they just don't know, like playing music publicly on speakers.

I, I've been around plenty of friends.

>> That's wild, isn't it?

>> Yeah.

And my parents, they're both musicians.

They they taught me do not do that.

You know, you're disrupting your neighbors.

It's it's not polite.

And same with swearing in front of, you know, in front of parents, older people in public.

>> A whole other conversation.

Yeah, is going to be curse words.

And I think one of my theories is in politics.

You heard Governor Hochul use that this week, talking about Elise Stefanik.

You heard governor Josh Shapiro use that recently.

some curse words at a press conference.

it's becoming normalized because of the popularity of the president over the last ten years, and he's viewed as authentic.

And all of a sudden now the bar is lowered, and maybe people like that, maybe people don't.

>> But yeah.

>> Yeah, I mean, it's definitely different even in ten years.

And you're 23 years old when you were 13, I think the standards were different on this one.

>> They they were different.

But at the same time, I know that kids were exposed to a lot more than they used to be because of the internet.

And so even I was watching shows that, like, I shouldn't have been watching, hearing language, I shouldn't have been hearing at such a young age.

And that leads to kids, you know, starting to swear.

But I, I would never do that and then come home and bring it into the house.

>> Or on an airplane or at a restaurant.

>> Yeah, yeah, that's just completely rude.

And you're not thinking about others and and friends and family members that I know will swear in front of kids in public.

>> Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm with you there real quick here.

Zoe.

Greg emailed to ask.

Please ask.

He means Zoe, the younger guest to define hard pants.

>> What's hard pants?

>> What's the phrase hard pants mean?

>> I don't know that I've ever heard that.

>> So teenagers.

Now Greg is referencing that we talked about this recently.

Teenagers talk about hard pants as anything that isn't elastic waistband.

And and they talk about hard pants.

Yeah.

So something like my son will be like, wear jeans.

Like, what?

Am I going to a wedding?

I mean, like, it's.

really anything that has a zipper or button is formal.

>> Is formal formal.

>> If it's not athleisure.

Yeah, it is formal.

>> That's bizarre to me because typically, like almost every day I would wear jeans.

I'm not gonna wear sweatpants unless I'm specifically doing something where I'm just like at home or something.

>> Well, you're a throwback.

You're very interesting, Zoe.

We're really glad.

>> She has a great shirt on, too.

>> Yeah.

If you're watching.

>> She has a great shirt on.

>> How much did you think about what you were wearing on a fashion conversation?

>> I did think about it, for sure, but I also am.

I'm doing something later today where I need to be wearing comfortable clothes, so I.

>> It's a balance there.

>> It is a balance.

So I'm wearing comfortable clothes, but also.

>> That you feel like you look good in.

>> Yeah.

Great.

>> Yeah I mean I listen to Elaine, I was going to dress up for you, and then I realized it physically hurt to be outside today.

I know, and.

>> It was 12.

It was 12.

You know, the other thing that I wanted to say is that we I remember when you would.

This sounds so corny.

You sort of put your clothes out the night.

Did you ever do that?

Of course.

Do you still do?

Yes.

Do you still do that?

>> I do that too.

>> No, wait.

>> You do?

Not every night.

>> But still a lot like you.

>> Yeah.

>> Like where do you put them?

On a chair.

Like this is what I'm wearing tomorrow.

>> In a spare, like.

>> Like spare space.

>> Yeah.

>> Just.

That's sort of adorable.

I don't think a lot of people do that anymore.

Do you?

I do not, okay, I think about what I'm doing that day, and I think about where I'm going to be.

And if I'm going to be in person, in a place I'm giving a speech.

Or I also think, okay, I'm going to leave the house this hour and I'm not going to be back.

I have I have this, this, and then a dinner meeting and then a present.

So I better dress for the whole day.

But I think that paying attention to what you wear is also just part of a let me just survive today.

And that's really what I'm much more concerned about.

And I'm sorry that Secretary Duffy is focusing on that versus how can we have people feel better about themselves, better about travel, better about being?

>> He should have.

>> Called you people.

He should have called.

>> Me because you do care about fashion.

>> Unlikely to call me.

yeah.

Just so you know.

>> On your politics.

>> On my politics.

But that's okay.

But I just think that what we want to do is start the day with kindness and the day with gratitude.

That's what you do.

And then flying is just part of that whole process.

And if somebody like Secretary Duffy really wants to send a message, a holiday message, a travel message, it's about gratitude and kindness.

And you know what?

I. I care less about what someone's wearing than how they're treating each other.

So.

>> Well said.

>> That's the message.

Well said.

>> Yeah.

I mean, so, so many great pieces of feedback from listeners who appreciate what our guests brought, Kim wrote in to say she agrees the main issue is drunk passengers.

If there's disruption, she says, there's almost always alcohol.

And she says people wear their pajamas because they don't fit in a tiny carry on bag.

They don't want to get their nice clothes dirty, and you need to be prepared to sleep in an airport lounge, right?

>> Right.

Exactly what.

Zoe's saying.

>> Forget the golden days.

>> Zoe is like.

Exactly.

Yes.

Elaine Spaull.

Executive director of the center for youth Co founder of Fashion Week Rochester.

Looking great, as always.

Thank you.

>> Thank you so much.

Appreciate you being here, buddy.

>> And ë Kuehn comedy writer, performer, visual artist.

Thank you for coming on the program today.

>> Thank you for having me.

>> Come back sometime.

>> I would love to.

>> From all of us at Connections.

Thanks for watching.

Thanks for listening.

No matter what you're wearing, where you're going or what you're doing, have a great weekend.

We're back with you next week on member supported public media.

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