>> From WXXI News.

This is Connections.

I'm Evan Dawson.

Our connection this hour is made when you go to the DMV or when you request a public record through Monroe County, or perhaps when you go to vote Monroe County Clerk Jamie Romeo is going to join us to talk about changes and upgrades at the county clerk's office.

We'll talk about some national legislation that's getting a lot of attention on voting and ID, and a lot more with her.

Before that, the Rochester Red wings and their fans could soon be seeing some upgrades at the High Falls based stadium.

That's right across the street from us here.

WXXI Brian Sharp has been following those developments and we'll share those with us.

But first, we begin the weekly news roundup with the question, do you think your auto insurance rates are too high?

Governor Kathy Hochul says they are.

Hochul has been outspoken about her plans to reshape the state's insurance laws, and her proposal is part of her budget plan, which is past the deadline.

Now, according to reporting by our colleague Jon Campbell, Hochul has touted her push for reform as a battle against, quote, unquote, deeply entrenched interests.

Meanwhile, Uber has spent $8 million on ads promoting Hochul's plans, which could decrease its insurance costs.

So what do you need to know, and how could this affect your insurance if changes are made?

Jon Campbell.

My colleague is here to explain.

He's an Albany correspondent for WNYC Gothamist and the New York Public News Network.

Hi, John.

Thanks for being with us.

>> Hi, Evan.

Thanks for having me.

>> So let's start by just explaining what the proposed changes are.

We've heard from some county, not county state lawmakers in the last couple of months on this.

But do you want to kind of just take us through some of the proposals here?

>> Yeah, absolutely.

I mean, it's a whole slate of proposals.

There are a bunch of anti-fraud proposals that are in this, some some changes to how prosecutors could go after fraud.

But the two biggest things that are really at the center of debate in Albany and are, quite frankly, holding up a state budget, are having to do with with insurance payouts.

Right?

So under New York state law, if you if you are in an accident and you are have some level of, of damage to yourself and to your ability to, uh, to work, you are entitled to $50,000 worth of coverage under your insurance plan, regardless of who is at fault.

Governor wants to change when someone goes to court, a victim goes to court and tries to seek additional compensation for their their their damages.

And as it is now, New York is what's known as a pure comparative negligence state.

And that means essentially you go to court, you're you're determined that you are 75% at fault for an accident.

You can still get compensation from whoever is 25% at fault.

So if you're awarded $100,000 and you're 75% at fault, your award is then decreased by 75%.

So you get $25,000.

The governor wants to change that.

So you can only get that additional compensation if you are if you're found to be not mostly responsible for the crash.

So if you were 51% or more responsible, you wouldn't be able to get that extra compensation.

That's the biggest proposal.

There's also a proposal to, uh, change the definition of serious injury when you would be able to, uh, you know, receive compensation for a serious injury.

She wants to change the definition, streamline it, so there wouldn't be a way where you can.

There's one definition now where you can, uh, receive compensation if you, uh, can't carry out the substantial duties of your work over for 90 days, over 180 day period, she wants to get rid of that.

Her office makes the argument that it's, uh, it's too subjective, whereas some of the other definitions are more objective.

>> Okay, so I want to talk about some of the players in this.

I'm going to start with the lawmakers.

We'll talk about Uber coming up here.

But I want to talk about the lawmakers here.

I want to get your characterization of what it seems that the Assembly and the Senate, where they stand on some of this.

We've heard the loudest voices we've heard in our contingency Jon have been people like Assemblymember Jen Lunsford, who, you know, comes from this field.

She's an attorney, and she has said essentially that the governor is way off base here, that if you want to go after fraud, this is not the way to do it.

This is going to limit what people who are legitimately hurt can do about this, that this is going to have the wrong kind of outcomes, and it is not likely to really, really fundamentally change insurance rates here.

The governor seems to be positioning this as her against the injury attorneys.

I don't know if that's a fair characterization.

How do you see it and how do you see the legislature?

>> I'd say that's a pretty fair characterization.

I mean, she hasn't she's gone right up to that line.

She hasn't, you know, named the trial lawyers, so to speak.

But like you said, she she says that she's fighting against entrenched interests that that profit from the the current system.

And by that she means the trial lawyers, whether she's calling them that by name.

The New York State Trial Lawyers Association is a major force in Albany and has been for decades.

I mean, they contribute a lot of money to lawmakers campaigns.

They spend tons of money on lobbying.

They're one of the biggest lobbyists in Albany every single year.

And that is certainly the case this year as they fight back against this proposal.

And so far, they have lawmakers on their side.

Lawmakers have pushed back against this and have have argued that, uh, you know, the governor, the governor's proposals wouldn't actually do what she says it would, which is reduce car insurance rates.

The other side of it, as you said, is Uber.

And really anybody that has a big fleet of vehicles, I mean, Uber is one of the largest consumers of insurance.

And, you know, if their insurance rates go down, that is significant for them.

And if their litigation costs go down, that is also significant for them.

So they've spent $8 million on an ad campaign.

You've probably seen the ads.

They're not under Uber's name.

They're under a group known as the citizens for Affordable Rates, C a R car.

Get it?

Uh, so you've probably seen those ads.

So this is really a battle of the Titans in Albany.

I mean, it's Uber versus the trial lawyers.

You got the governor siding with Uber and insurance companies, which are also another force in Albany, excuse me.

And you've got the lawmakers so far siding with the trial lawyers.

>> So, look, I understand the argument from the trial lawyers and from some lawmakers who say this is not the right proposal that's going to lower your insurance rates.

Not only is this the wrong idea on the merits, it's not going to work.

My sense Jon and I could be wrong here is Uber seems to believe it will work.

Uber seems to believe that their insurance rates will come down if this passes.

Hence their investment.

Unless something else is at play here, which is is Uber involved in so many accidents that they're trying to change what they'd have to pay out?

I don't know the answer to that, but.

>> I mean, that's all part of it.

Okay.

Right.

I mean, the insurance costs are part of it.

Now, uh, I talked to Janno Lieber last week.

He is earlier this week, actually, he is the chairman and the CEO of the MTA.

That's the public Transit Association or agency in New York City.

And he is pushing hard for this because he says they pay out about $50 million a year in payouts when their bus drivers are found even a little bit at fault for an accident.

So it would be the same thing with Uber, right?

Like if an Uber driver is five, ten, 15, 25% at fault for an accident right now, that results can result in a payout to the victim, who might be 85% at fault for the accident.

This would change that.

So yes, I mean, it is it would limit the amount of money that they're paying out.

And so yeah, that's that's a big part of this.

>> Okay.

And this is where I, I don't want to try to test you on how the law works, but this is I'm going back to the conversation I had with Assemblymember Lunsford.

So let's say someone is out for a jog and it's dark and they're running down, uh, parallel to a road that's 35 miles an hour.

And then they try to sprint across the road and beat traffic and they get hit.

And the person driving the car who hits them is going 48 and a 35.

So you're actually speeding.

You're not speeding.

In a way, it's borderline whether you get pulled over.

Maybe.

Maybe not for that level of speed, but you're speeding and you hit the person and the jury decides, well, it's 90% the person's fault who jumped into the road, but it's still 10% yours because you were going a little bit over the speed limit where you should.

And maybe that's where Uber comes in and says, look, we shouldn't be paying any of that in, in a an accident like that, we shouldn't be paying 10%.

We shouldn't be paying 20%.

And that's where the governor seems to agree with them.

Is that a fair characterization?

>> Well, yes.

And let's let's play that out.

Right.

So let's say, you know, the driver in that scenario, 10% at fault, the runner jogger, whatever, 90% at fault, you go to court and the runner has suffered $100,000 worth of damage.

Uh, and is found to have been 90% at fault.

The person who's at 10% at fault would be on the hook for 10% of that $100,000 on the hook for $10,000.

So that is yes, that is exactly what they're saying.

They're saying that, you know, it should be a 5050 mark, right?

So whoever is 51% or more responsible would no longer be eligible for compensation.

Beyond that $50,000, no fault compensation that they would get from their own insurance.

>> Okay.

Um, any predictions here?

I mean, you indicated that so far the legislature has seems to be against the governor on this.

Is it looking like that will hold.. >> Well, for now it will.

I mean, they're nowhere close on a budget deal, right?

I mean, there's this issue.

There's the climate law issue.

There's, uh, issues over environmental reviews for for housing, all these different policy issues that really don't have a whole ton to do, a ton to do with the dollars and cents of the budget.

They're all holding up the budget.

And the governor indicates that she wants to hold out for her side of this deal.

Right.

The governor, uh, doesn't really care about on time budgets.

She's made that very clear.

She hasn't had an on time budget her entire tenure.

And she she likes to hold out for what she wants.

So she has made very clear she won't do a budget without some form of this.

In the final deal, the lawmakers are on board with some of her anti-fraud proposals, you know, making it easier for prosecutors to prosecute car insurance fraud.

You might see something there, but as of right now, there is a real rift with the legislature.

Probably the biggest rift with the legislature on any of the issues right now, on those issues that we discussed about car insurance.

>> All right.

Before we let you go, I have to ask you a very important question not related to car insurance here.

We're we're in Rochester.

Are we upstate or are we in Western New York?

>> You know, this is my life's work.

This is, you know, this is I, uh, you can ask a thousand different people and they'd give you a thousand different responses on where upstate New York is.

>> No.

>> You are the arbiter.

>> You are the authority.

>> I, I if you want to call me that, I'm happy to take on that mantle.

I am absolutely.

But I grew up in Lockport, just an hour down 31 there, and I never grew up calling where I grew up, upstate New York, I always said Western New York, but then, you know, I've lived in Albany for almost 20 years now, and everybody here would call that upstate New York.

So, you know, I'm on a quest to find the answer.

I'll let you know if I ever figure it out.

>> I think the biggest problem I hope we can agree on this is when we call upstate New York anything that's ten miles north of New York City that's not upstate to me.

>> Well, you know, I just I just brought up brought this up on Twitter on X the other day.

Conan O'Brien.

Love.

Conan O'Brien.

He on his podcast the other day said, uh, called Rye New York, which is in Westchester County, the, the county just north of the Bronx borders the Bronx.

He called that upstate New York.

And I had to, I had to throw a flag there.

I don't I don't think that one's right.

>> No, you're absolutely right, John.

I would say Rochester is right on the border of Western New York and upstate New York.

Buffalo squarely in Western New York, northern New York is the Northern Territory.

Hudson Valley is the Hudson Valley.

It's not upstate.

I mean, thank you for standing up for logic and wisdom.

Jon Campbell, as always.

>> Hey, listen, that's what I'm here to do, right?

>> And the actual day job.

You do a great job, too.

Jon Campbell Albany correspondent for WNYC Gothamist and the New York Public News Network.

Thank you sir.

We'll look for more of your reporting on this issue.

>> Evan, thanks for having me.

>> We're going to have Brian Sharp, my colleague from WXXI joining us next here.

Stay with us on the Friday roundup.

>> I'm Evan Dawson Monday on the next Connections we bring in Drew Warshaw.

He is running for New York State comptroller, challenging longtime incumbent Thomas DiNapoli.

Do you know what the comptroller does?

We'll talk about the importance of that position.

And then in our second hour talking about the child care crisis and what can be done about that.

Talk with you on Monday.

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>> This is Connections.

I'm Evan Dawson.

Uh, what is next for the stadium that is outside our window?

I mean, our windows now it's closed, but right across the way, the Red wings are playing baseball and WXXI is investigations in enterprise editor and business and development reporter.

Brian Sharp has been following possible investments in the newly renamed ESL Ballpark, previously called Innovation Field, previously called.

Before that, I think Frontier Field and before that, I don't know, but now it's ESL Ballpark and the Red wings have played there for a number of years.

Brian is reporting that this is a. Well, we got a deeper dive into the $225 million for Rochester that Governor Kathy Hochul has set aside in her proposed budget.

Welcome.

How are you doing here?

>> Good.

>> How are you?

Are you a baseball in Iowa?

You're a baseball fan, right?

If you build it, they will come.

>> Well, I grew up in Nebraska, so which also has a lot of baseball.

But I think for a while we were coached by our former kicker.

So, you know, uh, it's all about.

>> Up close to the if you build it, they will come set.

>> Yes.

I've been there.

You've been there?

Yes.

>> Is it great?

>> It is.

It's pretty awesome.

>> Pretty cool place to see a baseball game.

Um, do you see any ghosts there?

>> I did.

>> Not know ghosts.

Well, Brian is here talking about what's going on there and across this country, even in minor league parks, there's overtime, there's push and pull for the taxpayers to to either support a brand new stadium, renovations, et cetera.. We saw debates for years before the Buffalo Bills finally got their stadium.

That will open later this year.

What's going on here?

>> So the improvements that they've had, you know, I wrote about some of this wish list that the Red wings had back years ago.

Um, it, uh, it includes a wraparound concourse so folks can watch the game from the outfield move around, um, uh, it includes, uh, turning the old firehouse that's on site there.

Uh, when you come in, um, off of, uh, what is that Plymouth, I believe, um, turning that into possibly a restaurant or museum, uh, creating a permanent year round event space.

Apparently weddings are a decent business there.

Um, but you can't, you know, our winters lasts about eight months, so, you know, you've got to plan for those.

Um, and then just, you know, the regular.

I was surprised to hear they still have the seats there from when the stadium opened 30 years ago.

Um, they need to replace those.

They want a new PA system.

They want to the suites have never been renovated.

They want a new press box, new PA system.

Um, yeah, just all around.

>> And they're asking for who to pay for it.

>> So the state would pick up the bulk of it.

Uh, the request to the state is for around 59, 60 million, and then the total comes to about 65,000,065 seven, I believe.

>> So around 60 million of the 65 million from state taxpayers, right?

5 million from county.

>> Local sources.

Uh, the the Red Wings already put in about I believe they said 250,000 a year.

I was asking, uh, Naomi Silver, the president and CEO over there, um, if they would be able to do more, um, and she, she didn't say no, but she said, well, they wouldn't do less, but, um, I think their, you know, minor league teams are not, there's not a lot of cash there.

Um, and so they're, they're doing quite a bit, you know, just to kind of keep things, keep things going and.

>> Well, let's listen to some of what she told you because you know, these investments in the ballpark, you've reported they're not, they didn't come up in the last six months.

They've been on the drawing board for the better part of a decade.

Right?

>> Right.

Yeah.

And she said, you know, it's important.

They've put in a good amount of investment into what was required by Major League Baseball for the players.

Um she said it's important to put in for the fans.

It's important for people to come here and have pride.

Uh, and in the stadium.

Um, and that those investments need to be made.

>> So let's listen to some of what Naomi Silver told Brian Sharp about why after all these years, they're just getting to some of these possible renovations.

Now.

>> It is important to stay on top of things.

We always want our major league affiliate to view this as a as a city that they want to put a AAA team, you know, they want their players here to to feel the excitement that a vibrant city and stadium have.

And let's face it, there are other cities that are getting new stadiums all the time.

After 20 years.

So I, I feel I feel the need to make sure that we don't allow, uh, ourselves to slip off the radar of the best facilities and cities that they can, that they can affiliate with.

>> Yeah.

I mean, I understand the point there is competition.

If you're a minor league city, it's important for people to remember that maybe you always remember the Rochester Red wings, but the affiliations have changed over the years.

It was when Cal Ripken was here was the Baltimore affiliation right then the Minnesota Twins.

I think immediately after that, then the Washington Nationals.

Right.

And so she seems to be saying there I don't think she's making a threat.

I think she's observing that, you know, if you don't stay on top of it, you could get out competed for.. >> And there has been um and I ask her about this, there has been speculation, particularly coming out of Richmond, Virginia.

They just opened a brand new ballpark, uh, CarMax Park for the Richmond Flying Squirrels.

That is a AA team.

Um, but they are eager to rejoin AAA and they are 100 miles away from Washington Nationals Park.

Uh, whereas we are 350 miles away.

>> So let's listen to what Naomi had Naomi Silver had to say about that double a stadium.

>> I have not had those conversations with the nationals, but you know, when we see a new facility going in a AA facility going in, uh, in a city that's near Washington, uh, I want to make sure that we don't lose a AAA team over it, you know, and I think we're, we are on solid ground as long as we are, as long as we're keeping up.

But new facilities are amazing.

And they also cost at least four times what this facility cost.

You know, so the $65 million that we're we're hoping to get for this facility is probably less than a third of what a new facility would cost in today's market.

Um, it's a good investment to make, you know.

>> Yeah.

So I, again, this is not a, I don't take this as a threat in the same way that frankly, what the bills were doing felt, felt like a threat for years.

Like if you don't either pour a quarter billion dollars or maybe $1 billion, a quarter billion dollars into the old Buffalo Stadium, uh, New era field with Highmark, whatever it was, or $1 billion for a new stadium.

We're out of here.

She seems to be saying, realistically, just look at the map.

We're not one of these AAA teams.

That's a short drive away from our parent ball club, which teams like.

They like to be close.

Geographically, Cleveland's AAA team used to be Charlotte, North Carolina.

Now it's Columbus, Ohio.

You know, so you go from ten hour drive to two for Cleveland right.

That's what they want.

So Rochester's a long way away from Washington.

Richmond's a lot closer.

She sees the writing on the wall there.

I mean again, I'm not trying to make the case for spending a bunch of money.

I just I get it.

>> The the the gist that I got was that, look, right now, this is not a concern.

I mean, both teams are, you know, they're tied into they have contracts.

>> They have.

Yeah.

For a number of years, but not forever.

>> But essentially.

Yeah, it's it's not a top concern now, but let's not let it become one.

Um, you know, and I think the deputy mayor, when I spoke to him, he said, look, we've enjoyed a certain standard of baseball, uh, at the stadium for the last 30 years.

We want to make sure that that continues.

And that's why I think it gets to this has been on the on the wish list for a number of years.

But this year, um, in this ask to the state for the actual ask of, of total.

This fits into, I should say a 225 million that the governor has set aside.

There's other projects in there, but this one was the priority for the city and the county when they went forward.

Um, and I think it's just that recognition, you know, they're the biggest draw of any event space downtown.

Uh, and so, and like you said, there's a game over there today.

Um, and you saw cars and people lining up already before the gates opened.

Oh, yeah.

>> Oh, yeah.

And just for a little context, because I think a lot of listeners who are not hardcore Red Wings fans, I still think it's part of the identity of Rochester.

Again, this is not me making a case for spending millions of dollars.

People can debate that, but this is how change can happen.

So in Jamestown, New York, they used to be a single a affiliate of the Montreal Expos Expos became the Washington Nationals and they lost that.

So now Jamestown has no affiliation.

Elmira used to be an affiliate, lost that in Auburn.

There is a gorgeous park in Auburn, New York called Falcon Park.

It's.

It is fantastic.

And if you go there now and you go, why is this not good enough for single A one?

Soto, who plays for the New York Mets, played there in 2012 2013, when they were the Washington Nationals Single-A affiliate.

Well, now they are an independent college team in the summer and they host high school games.

So these things can change.

These things can change.

>> And we should point out the that the stadium is county owned.

So it's it's while these things would benefit the Red Wings, you know, they said, look, our attendance has been steady.

Um, this isn't a thing where they're concerned there either, but this is a county owned stadium.

It's owned by the taxpayers.

Um, and they just signed ESL just signed the naming rights.

But it's notable that in that one of the provisions for default to avoid the contract is if they no longer are playing AAA baseball, they're, um, so there's a lot riding in making sure that what's there stays there.

>> The transfer transformation initiative, by the way, from New York State was a total of $500 million.

>> That was the ask that was the the city and the county.

So they had it's they had this huge ask of, of like everything that they could think of, which included, um, all kinds of brand new animal shelter, um, a lot of, you know, the one that caught my eye was they wanted to fence, uh, Ontario beach park and put in other security measures, their gate, the parking, um, and so that was whittled down to 500 million.

Um, and to which the governor then said, okay, 225 million.

Um, the other big ticket items for the transportation transformation initiative, uh, is the vacuum oil site there along the river just south of downtown, uh, old, uh, oil refinery that they're trying to clean up for different development.

Um, and, uh, a big initiative to overhaul the, um, emergency communications systems for the county are probably the biggest ticket.

And then you keep going from there.

There's one notable thing.

And actually what led us into this was this talk of a High Falls district, which would develop the parking lots around.

It's essentially it's a very tentative preliminary, but it made it into the into the ask.

Um, it would take essentially the parking lots wrap around north of the Kodak complex and build housing a concert venue, retail, um, something, you know, I was told to akin to like if you think of Wrigleyville or these areas around on that.

Naomi Silver is very cautious, as she said, parking is a priority, um, for them, for their fans.

Um, and, uh, and wanting to make sure that this isn't something that, you know, gets half built or has vacancy or whatever.

So we'll see where that goes.

That seems like a longer range plan, but, um, yeah.

>> So lastly, that $500 million initial ask the big one that got whittled down to 225, right?

Were their big ticket items that did get cut in that.

>> What, what got left out?

So all the projects that made it into the 500 S that became the 225 are all city of Rochester.

Um, left out also was, but still.

So these seem to be we could be hearing about these maybe later in the year.

There's always other announcements after the budget.

Um, I mentioned the, the um, animal shelter, uh, there was also the children's pavilion, uh, at Highland Park.

Um, and, uh, the, the sort of security hardening of, of Ontario beach Park where some of the bigger ticket ones that I remember being on, on that list, I should have brought the book down.

I did not, but yeah.

>> That's okay.

That's a conversation for.

>> Pamphlets.

>> But it's all in the city of Rochester that 225.

>> All the 225 is in the city.

Yeah.

>> Okay.

All right.

Well, we'll, uh, we'll have to see here.

Thanks for bringing us this story.

Baseball today, 70 degrees, I think.

Breezy.

>> Yeah, yeah.

>> Good day for.

>> To get out the ballpark if you still time.

>> Good day for for a ball game.

Thank you.

Brian Sharp.

Um, we're going to close the week with a conversation with the county clerk.

Jamie Romeo is here next.

I'm Evan Dawson Monday on the next Connections.

We bring in Drew Warshaw.

He is running for New York State comptroller, challenging longtime incumbent Thomas DiNapoli.

Do you know what the comptroller does?

We'll talk about the importance of that position.

And then in our second hour talking about the child care crisis and what can be done about that.

Talk with you on Monday.

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>> This is Connections.

I'm Evan Dawson.

It's been a little while since we welcomed Monroe County Clerk Jamie Romeo to the program, and there's a couple of reasons that the county clerk is going to be here today.

First of all, there are some changes in the clerk's office and a chance to kind of get caught up to speed on what's happening in general with the clerk's office.

And in recent months, listeners have asked us to kind of follow up on questions about ID, the Save act, which is the Safeguard American Voter Eligibility Act, that the president talks a lot about, talked about in the state of the Union address, and we could see more momentum on that.

So it's a chance to sit down with the county clerk.

Jamie Romeo welcome back to the program.

>> Thanks for having me.

>> Anything new going on in your office?

>> Oh, you know, it's really quiet these days.

>> Yeah.

>> Right.

>> So I'm going to start if you don't mind, I'd like to start on the national scene.

And then we're just going to kind of take as much time as you need to talk about what is happening locally here.

But on the national scene, um, what stands out to you when you hear the debate about the Save act, the safeguard American Voter Eligibility Act, that would require documentary proof of United States citizenship to register to vote in federal elections.

>> And that's where it's another area where there's a lot of debate happening in DC, where people don't fully understand the realities on the ground and what that would require, particularly citizens and people who voted all their lives.

And if you implemented this new requirement, what that would mean, some people went through this when we were going through the real ID deadline that passed.

Um, that was more seen as an optional tool because it was, if you air travel a lot, it makes sense to get this.

If you don't feel like carrying your passport.

But a driver's license was never made to be a form of identification.

It was a license for driving.

And over the years, it's turned into a form of ID to just assume that the majority of driver's licenses in New York state, or, excuse me, the country would qualify to pass that citizenship test is not accurate.

Um, if you have a green card, if you are documented in the states, um, in a number of different fashions under permits, if you are in New York state and some other states, if you don't have documentation, you can still qualify to get a driver's license because it's about driving the vehicle.

It's not about proving you're asserting your identity.

So outside of the five states that provide an enhanced driver's license, no states regular real ID will qualify you if the Save act is passed in its current form, because it's not.

It does not.

It is not a citizenship test when you get it, because you can have a green card and still get a real ID.

>> You have worked not only as the county clerk because people probably know you've worked in politics.

Yes.

Do you see a lot of politics tied to this proposal?

>> Oh, absolutely.

It's completely voter disenfranchisement.

It's it's a not only will it impact particular people, people who have financial barriers, women, women who've been married, anyone who's changed their name, but individuals that have a hard time accessing these documents.

I know we've had individuals who were born in some, uh, in a southern state, uh, below the Mason-Dixon line, who was born at a time where the state doesn't have a birth record for them and they can't find any options of making that state produce it for them.

What do you do to those people who who are here?

They've lived here their whole lives.

Are you going to tell a 75 year old woman who's maybe been divorced twice, that she has to go bring a binder with her to prove who she is, even though she's been voting since she's 18.

It's it's one of those things where the people that don't have access to these types of documentation, people that don't travel globally normally, that don't have a passport, those are the ones that would be most directly impacted.

And the attempt to try to make this a quote, unquote voting security measure, um, in such a quick timeline, would only disenfranchize voters.

>> You don't buy it as a security measure.

>> Oh, no.

Absolutely not.

No, I think that when you look nationally, we've seen more and more often, there was never widespread voting fraud.

Um, there is the, in the random cases where there was 1 or 2 individuals, it was never enough that would have altered the outcome of an election.

Um, it's just a way to keep, make it harder for people to vote.

You had poll taxes, literacy tests in the past.

This is just another form of creating a barrier between individuals and voting.

>> One thing that the president is not wrong about, well, he was wrong in the state of the Union.

He mentioned that 89% of Americans support this.

I don't know the poll he's referring to, but the Gallup and Pew research shows that around 84%.

So when you ask Americans, should there be voter ID, the vast majority say yes.

Now, I don't know if that means you're not just giving them all the details that you just described, or I'm curious to know why you think this poll so well in general.

>> I think that depending on who's writing the poll, how the questions are written, it's very easy to have leading polls where if you give something that sounds like it should have a common sense answer, you get the common sense response.

And in this case, again, there is no the national standard for an ID is not a test of your citizenship.

So it's one thing that might sound good in practice to people, but you're not having a full conversation with them about how it's going to impact them directly.

And that's where, again, I think it's not it's, it's a number that's good to throw out there, but it's not the whole story.

And you're also not giving the public the whole story.

When you say that you're trying to pull the wool over someone's eyes.

>> Do you think it will affect women the most?

>> Oh, absolutely.

Yeah.

I mean, I think some of my, my most enjoyable memes or whatever we call them these days have been, you know, if you're, if your husband doesn't have to go get certified copies of their marriage records and birth certificates and everything else just to prove who they are, why should I?

And again, it's only going to impact people who's changed their names, which would be women.

And we know from going through the real ID process, you had individuals, particularly some older, um, residents who would have to go try to find these certified documents of old court filings, just things that they don't readily have access to because they've never.

Why do I need to need this to assert who I am?

Um, and it's something that if and again, a poll worker now has to go through and verify all these documents, it's just again, it's, it's not, it is not being presented to the public.

I think in a, in an honest conversation.

And that's why there's a lot more devil in the details there.

>> Two other brief points on this.

I, I hear you saying that this is a political proposal.

It's not just about security.

You see a lot of politics.

Yes, but it would affect people in voting counties, rural areas, places that the president has a lot of support.

People would be affected everywhere on this.

Right.

So how is how is this more political?

>> I think that it's been a talking point from some particular areas in the political spectrum for a long time.

And I think that unfortunately, this administration doesn't necessarily think through all the things that they say in their policies.

And that's one of those ones where I know I mean, the the larger conversation that has to be had by them.

Is that okay?

Well, how would you implement this just because you want to make it happen?

And that's again, we saw the president sign all kinds of executive orders that all of us knew to be illegal, knew to be unlawful.

And fortunately, the court time and time again has stepped in and held him to account.

But it's not thought through.

It's not an honest conversation.

Um, it's, it's a quick hit point that he's, I think he's getting with his, with his base.

And the only thing it does is try to limit people's access to the polls and create a problem where there was not one.

>> And that was my last question.

And if this happens, if this passes in its current form, what does that mean for you and your office?

What would you do?

>> Well, I think the DMV would still be busy, but I would say New Yorkers would be in a much better place than the rest of the country, because New Yorkers are one of those five states that have we issue enhanced driver's licenses.

So if you didn't want to have to go out and find a passport, you could try to go through and go through that enhanced driver's license process.

You would still have to go through all those other steps, but you then have other states.

The rest of the the rest of the nation that this their local DMVs don't offer that the edl's.

So the options for them are either get all their original papers or try to all go get passports at the same time.

And again, that's another area where when it comes to real impact to voters and individuals, I don't think there's anybody when you get down to the to the actual impact of this from any part of that political spectrum that sees a benefit to it, especially if they were trying to force something through this cycle.

>> Yeah, I think I'm just wondering, would there be enough time?

Oh, no.

For you and your colleagues across the country in 50 states to to work with the people who would be affected to, to sew up a lot of the possible confusion and problems?

>> I don't think so, because I would also foresee that there would be no support from the federal government to actually do it either, whether.

>> You.

>> Know, whether it would come to the operations that all those local governments would have to be burdened with, in addition to just voters themselves.

>> We're talking to County Clerk Jamie Romeo of Monroe County.

So let's talk about what's new at the county clerk's office here, which is not necessarily the Safe act.

We'll see about that.

But by the way, if you haven't gotten an enhanced, you called it an EDL.

Yes.

What should people know about that if they're still behind on that?

Like maybe me.

>> So.

Well, I also don't have a real ID because I don't go anywhere.

So I don't I don't air travel.

I'm in the car.

>> No air travel.

>> No.

Well, I, I went to Chicago a few years ago for the DNC convention.

It was right before the deadline, but I don't normally go places a lot.

Um, so the biggest thing is that it falls with real ID.

So if you travel to Canada a lot, um, an enhanced driver's license would make a lot more sense for you because rather than bringing your passport, you just would bring that because that would count as your passport.

You can only use it for land borders, some borders by sea, for our northern and southern border.

You can't use it to to board an international flight, but it's just an upgraded version of a real ID that you can get.

And obviously, if you wanted to fly domestically, either having the real ID, a passport, or the enhanced driver's license is one of those options.

But it's because we're a border state that we, over the years with those for other states on the northern border, developed this process.

>> Okay, so let's talk about the newer new now, um, in terms of modernizing your services through different technology upgrades, you have expanded online access, you've got, um, mobile DMV units.

So what's, what's top of the list for you here?

>> Well, locally just here at Monroe County, our, our biggest change was that the first thing you do when you come into a DMV is that you're not talking to a person or waiting in line to talk to a person.

You're checking in on an iPad and sitting down.

Um, that's been the process where we've had a few kinks in it.

We've had some issues with long wait times getting projected, but we've seen the longer that we've had this implemented, the much better it's getting.

And people are becoming more familiar with it.

The, the other big end that's a statewide impact is that the state DMV upgraded and consolidated, uh, dozens.

If I'm I think it was close to 90 different systems internally.

And the way that we process things now on the back end for, for individuals is it's, I've said it's like going from a PC to a Mac.

It's just completely different.

That was why we were closed for a while to do trainings, because we knew this was going to be a really big shift.

But the big thing for that is that some things that may have not taken as long now take longer, but that's an impact we're seeing across the state.

All 51 counties that run DMV is on behalf of the state, plus the rest of the state, including downstate.

So that's where there's been a lot of changes, not just here, but all over.

>> Now, starting on Wednesday this week, you, uh, you well, you got, uh, subscriptions and free fraud alerts and what's what is that?

Tell me more about what I'm looking at here.

Um, that just launched on Wednesday.

>> Yep.

And that has nothing to do with DMV, but that's with our online record system.

So the system where we have online access to your deeds, your mortgages, different court records, we have been one of the outliers in New York state where we just had some unfettered free access to all of the information, including the original documents or the scans of those.

So what's now been implemented is that you can still go online and search the documents, and you'll see the indexing there, but you're not going to see the original document.

It's, um, the mortgage or the deed or all that full image of it for that access, paying the subscription that we have, where it falls in line with a lot of our peer counties there.

>> What kind of documents generally are you talking about here?

>> Mostly people I think are doing research with deeds and mortgages.

A lot of our land recordings, there are some mostly our civil cases are all electronic, where you can see scans of those.

We do have a small number of criminal cases that are actually scanned, but the indexing of those you can see, um, we do house a number of other things like naturalization records, some other historical records.

The goal for us is that the, the modest revenue we're going to get from this new stream, it's going to allow us to continue to digitize our records.

So that way, eventually, all of our records going back to 1821 will still be in the system.

>> Are there exceptions on this?

>> We have an academic exception.

So if we if we're in touch with a higher education institution or a school district that's doing a project, we'll be able to set up access because we know we've had particularly some, um, local school districts work with schools that are kids that are doing research into buildings or will they'll talk about the racially restrictive covenants and their impact on our history.

So we have that exception.

Um, but we're working with a lot of folks.

So the being able to go in and verify documents that they're in there, you're still going to be able to do that for free.

It's just if you want to actually see the document itself, then you'll need to go through and either come in the office and request it, which is always for free, or if you want to do it in the online system, having that subscription.

>> Any exceptions for the media?

>> Not no, not at this time.

For the media.

No.

You can always come into the office and ask for it, but not for the online access.

>> So if, if the the bottom line is about mitigating security risks.

And we see AI changing things pretty quickly here, how much is AI a threat to document security, personal information, et cetera.?

>> I think it's a very big threat.

And I think that's where it's one of those known unknowns that we we have when it comes to this system, because we do know that for some time there was regular.

Well, one of the things we learned when we went to our new vendor, which happened last year, was that as soon as we became a client of theirs, they saw a dramatic increase in bot activity.

And then foreign bot activity in their servers.

And it was specifically targeted to our, our site.

Um, and so we were able to work through some levels of security to prevent, to try to mitigate the bots and to mitigate now that you have to at least have an IP address within the United States.

So that way there's some better, uh, monitoring or control over who's coming through.

And looking at our records, we know people in the past have used records like ours to be able to go through and, uh, senior citizens often are targeted with mailings where if you pay me $250, I'll get you a secured copy of your deed.

And those are things we've talked with with the state attorney General's office on is that they're right to the line where they're not illegal, but they're very nefarious because technically they're just getting a public document and up charging somebody, but they're presenting it like it's something dire and they're getting money.

And we know you can go through and you can find date of births, addresses, signatures, all of those things.

We know deed theft is a growing issue down in New York City.

And that's one thing that we're a lot more concerned about up here.

And when you're full documents open to the public, all of that information, including account numbers, maybe for a mortgage that might not mean anything.

But when it comes to something that an AI agent could try to pull and then recreate, we don't even know the full extent of what that could be.

>> Yeah.

In general, AI is good or bad for society.

>> Oh, I don't like it.

I, I, I, I just ventured once or twice into trying to use ChatGPT for something.

Um, I was annoyed at how easily it organized information, uh, versus what I was going to do in my head, but I still, I, I get very, very concerned about it because I think it's one of those things that's a very powerful tool, but it can be used in two very different directions.

>> But even in workforce reduction.

So you talk about when people come to the DMV or when people come to the county clerk, they may talk to a person or they may check in digitally.

Um, can I help you eliminate or reduce your workforce?

>> Reduce our workforce?

>> Do you want to reduce your workforce?

>> No.

>> You don't want AI to reduce your workforce.

>> No, I would say that.

So one of the things that we see, um, particularly as certain simpler things go through online, uh, more people that are coming into our locations are the people that need help.

They have questions, they have situations.

But then you also see, forget AI just with automation.

I know there was a local story about individuals and we're seeing this across the state with this new statewide DMV system.

Individual who's driving record was unresolved in another state, moves to New York, gets an ID, has an ID for years.

But now, because this new state DMV system is communicating more directly with the other states, driving record systems as well.

Now all of a sudden, she goes in to renew her driver's license and she told, nope, actually, you're going to be suspended until you fix this record from 25 years ago in Florida.

And that's just an automated process where it's just pulling data and matching it together.

You still need that person to work through that or an AI, you know, could AI get through the nuances of being able to say, well, this was so many years ago.

I, I don't think it can.

And that might just be me.

I think that you have to look at those real life implications of something might not make sense or add up, but there's always circumstances around that that we need to talk through and work through with the individual.

>> With individual human beings.

>> Yes.

>> With a person to help understand that.

Yes, to help.

>> Navigate, you need to have some some compassion and empathy to those particular situations that I don't think AI is going to be able to do.

>> Here, here.

Clark Romeo um, before we get to a couple of listener emails, anything else that we should know about that's going on in your offices that you want the public to know?

>> Goodness know we've been very busy.

Um, we've had a lot of time in that.

We've been spending a lot of time in building up to a lot of these projects.

Um, we were hoping to have some other things hopefully by the end of this year.

But you know, in my tenure in Clark, we've, we've relocated to DMVs, we've put out these different initiatives.

We've really put a lot of new infrastructure behind the scenes to a lot of our data technologies.

So the work continues.

But we also hope that people don't forget that we're here and we're an accessible tool, because these are all still public records.

People can come down anytime and request and review these records.

We just want to make sure that when it comes to the, uh, the World Wide Web, that we're doing it in a really responsible way.

>> All right.

A couple of emails.

Paul and Webster writes in, and this is kind of adjacent to the Save act.

And so I don't know how much you can say about this, but he wanted to say, Evan, when I vote here, I sign on a touch screen using a fat tipped stylus.

My signature bears only a vague resemblance to what I filed with the election board probably 40 years ago.

I have not yet had any poll worker ever ask me about that.

The next time you're talking to elections officials, I wonder what guidance are the poll workers given in this regard?

It's from Paul in Webster.

Um, any concern about, you know, recognizing signatures, fraud that way, uh, changes over time.

>> I think that that's, you know, those are always issues, but people go through through life circumstances that could impact their signatures.

I do know that, um, there are certain circumstances and there might be areas of where if your signature is changing over time, you're encouraged to fill out a new voter card and get that into the board of elections.

Um, but again, I don't think that there's been any widespread, even with all of the accounting that's done and all of the audits that are done post elections.

And when we have close counts and they're going through hand counts, um, there's not been these widespread fraud that's happening in any of these elections.

>> That's the next email.

But briefly on the point from Paul, this is another example to your point, Clark Romeo, of why I would want a human being in the room to at least help assess if there's a good reason your signature is dramatically different than 30, 40, ten years ago.

It's nice to be able to talk to a person about as opposed to just having an AI agent decide you don't match.

>> You don't match.

So therefore it's not right.

Maybe I'm having maybe I'm a diabetic and I'm having very low blood sugar and my hands are just shaking.

Or maybe I'm on medication.

Like there's all kinds of things that could be not even a long term change in your handwriting, but maybe just a short term change, maybe, uh, you've signed something all day long and now your hands just cramped.

It's just, again, the nuance there.

It's why you need a person.

Absolutely.

>> All right.

And Tim writes in with some all caps here.

He says that your guest is, is is wrong.

The Save act is not just about politics.

It is about fraud.

Eliminating fraud is a fair thing for a president to do.

Uh, so it's not about politics, Tim says.

It's about eliminating fraud.

The point you were making in response to the previous email was you don't have a lot of evidence of fraud.

>> And I think since 2020 and the countless courts or courts that that case was brought into, and all those courts went and ruled that there was no fraud, there was no widespread fraud, regardless of what states went in there, regardless of how many times they want to try to go and seize records from these different states and board of elections, there was no fraud.

There was no widespread fraud.

If there was fraud, it was a 1 or 2 individual person thing that, again, I don't want to say why, but there's no systematic fraud happening.

That would mean that you would need to take on this approach.

>> Yeah.

And just in our last 30s, are you worried that that narrative persists and that trust in institutions has been affected by that?

>> Well, there's I think that trust in institutions has been eroding for some time.

I think that's just been I don't I don't necessarily say I would personally fault the current administration for that.

I think that's been a long time coming thing.

Uh, I think it's one of those issues where it's really important when we're seeing these things at the national level that we're hearing from our state leaders, from our local county leaders, city leaders, town leaders to make sure that we're, we're showing that contrast and that that differentiation of disagreeing with things that we don't believe are correct are wrong, but also making that corrective statement of, hey, this is this is the real impact for us little people on the ground that are in our neighborhoods every single day.

>> Monroe County Clerk.

Jamie Romeo uh, working with the team, doing the kind of work that, um, a lot of us have to interact with.

And I appreciate the fact that every time we ask you come on this program, thank you for being here.

>> Oh, yeah.

Absolutely.

I always enjoy it.

>> Clark Romeo and in the week here, it was a great Friday round up.

Wonderful week on Connections.

Thanks for being with us on these various platforms.

And we will be back with you from all of us at Connections.

Thank you.

We'll be back with you next Monday.

Not this coming Monday.

It's the same Monday.

It's next Monday is Monday.

They're all looking at me like, are we off for a week?

We're not off.

We'll be back on Monday.

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