From WXXI news.

This is connections.

I'm Evan Dawson.

Our connection this hour was made in 1967, when the United States Congress created and funded the Corporation for Public Broadcasting.

The CPB was designed to support a system of local media stations, and those stations would in turn support NPR and PBS.

But that funding from Congress was not meant to be enough to sustain the entire system.

Our NPR colleague Kelly McBride notes that while the British government spends close to $100 a year per citizen on the BBC, the United States spends $1.50 per citizen on the CPB.

But now President Donald Trump has signed an executive order determined to eliminate federal funding for public media.

The potential funding cuts would affect local stations like Sky and EOS.

NPR has 246 member organizations, and those members have newsrooms in all 50 states.

NPR CEO noted last week that federal funding cuts could devastate parts of the country that have already lost their local newspapers, news, deserts, so to speak.

Rural communities would bear a disproportionate amount of the impact.

And PBS CEO Paula Kruger notes that the executive order could impact PBS.

Is funding out of the Department of Education.

It is a multi-decade partnership that is supported the research, development and creation of educational children's programing such as Sesame Street, Daniel Tiger, Mr. Rogers Neighborhood.

Kruger said, quote, half of the kids in this country are not enrolled in formal pre-K. That's why programing for children on public television was created.

End quote.

But the Trump administration says it is time for that kind of programing to be funded by other sources entirely.

And the president says it's time to target newsrooms that don't produce journalism that he finds acceptable or fair.

This hour, we welcome your feedback on our various platforms.

As always, you can call the program toll free.

It's 84429528442958255.

You can email us connections@i.org.

Some of you already have.

And we will get to your comments coming up here.

You can join the chat live on our news YouTube channel.

Hope you're watching along with us there.

Let me welcome our guest for the hour.

Have the privilege of introducing our president and CEO of Sky Public Media, Chris Hastings, to the program.

Chris, thanks for making time for us.

Thank you, and thanks for being.

I'm stepping all over the CEO.

Look at me, Tom petty.

Tom Petty is with me in studio.

Tom, by the end of the hour.

Here.

You're in charge.

I'll be.

I'll be the next host.

Tom is a as a resident media scholar at Saint John Fisher University, longtime Sky member.

And I'm going to welcome on the line Congressman Joe Morelli, representing the 25th Congressional District.

Congressman, I'm really thank you for making time for the program today.

Happy to be here.

I'm I'm going to start with this.

I want to make sure our audience understands in many ways, this hour is yours.

The show this platform is yours.

It is a community program.

No matter your point of view, no matter where you are in any of these issues.

We do want to hear from you this hour.

But I do want to start with this.

by giving our guest a chance to describe really what the last few days all means, starting with the executive order and its possible impact.

So, Chris, what should our community understand about what is going on right now?

well, first of all, thanks for having me on, and I'm sorry I can't be there in person.

you know, I think what's important for our audience to know about the past couple of days is that this executive order is is a threat to public media, and a direct threat to WXXI.

And what we do in this community, I would say it's not an imminent threat, but it's one of those things where it's going to have a trickle down to everything that we do.

if it is it if it if it comes to the point where that funding is, is taken away from NPR and PBS.

what's hard for a lot of people who are at home is they might not understand how public media is funded.

and I hope today we can talk a little bit about how that all comes together, because it is a local national partnership and the work that we do at nine stations around the country.

It's critical, it's essential, it's important.

And I think it's something that for the past 50 years, the American people have agreed that it's the best investment that we can make in serving our community with media.

Congressman Morelli, what do you see happening right now?

Well, look, I think this is, there's three parts to the Trump agenda, over the last 100 days.

The first is to whittle away at freedom of expression, freedom of the press.

I think the cuts to, that he's talking about to public, media is part of that.

The second part of his strategy is to undermine an independent judiciary.

And the third part is to undermine free elections in America.

And I think these are all part of an effort, really move away from democracy and more towards autocracy.

And the president simply cannot tolerate anyone who has an opinion separate apart from himself.

And so he looks for ways to attack what he think is leftist thought, I guess.

it's really hard to imagine how far this has gone, but, you know, I'm a big fan of PBS.

I, watch it on a regular basis, as do family members.

and frankly, even watching PBS NewsHour, which I think is the most balanced news, nationally.

and now they're neither left nor right.

But somehow the president has decided that's why he's, trying to to eliminate federal funding for the arts and the humanities.

And he thinks anyone who, you know, has some interest in humanity, as expressed through the arts or expressed through, public broadcasting is somehow a socialist or somehow, you know, against his point of view.

So this is this is part of an overall strategy which obviously requires, pushback by all Americans.

And I'll say this, it's also illegal, like virtually every one of his executive orders is illegal, either unconstitutional or violates the law.

Congress makes decisions on funding.

it's in article one of the Constitution, which I now understand why the president struggles with the Constitution.

He basically acknowledged, to, Kristen Welker, that he doesn't know what's in the Constitution and isn't even clear as to whether his oath requires him to follow the Constitution.

So, you know, this is, part and parcel of what he wants to remake in his image.

Just briefly, Mr.

Congressman, from what I'm reading, yeah, I think a lot of us have spent the last 4 to 5 days trying to figure out what's already been funded, what has been appropriated, if if the president tried to impound funding, what would that entail?

So some of what I'm seeing indicates that CPB is funded by Congress through 2027.

At this point, is that correct?

Yeah.

Yeah.

These yes, there are a number of programs, and this is one that are funded in advance.

and so funding already goes through, next year's appropriation process while these funding, NPR and PBS, in a we funded in advance.

So he would have to essentially, violate the law by impounding money.

and the, the, the law doesn't allow him to do that.

We're in court on that very question.

as we are in court on over I think 150 is probably closer to 200 now.

Lawsuits, the losses will just keep coming.

He complains that he's the person who's in federal court more than any other president is somehow that's an indication that the court system is wrong, when instead, it's really an indication of how illegal most of his work is.

Instead of ever looking in the mirror to find the culprit, the, you know, just creates these vast conspiracy theories of how everyone in the world is out to get him.

By the way, he's losing in court regularly now in the early rounds, even by Trump appointed federal judges.

So, but he he's going to try to take back and and rescind money that's already been appropriated by Congress, which is not allowed.

Tom Brady is a media scholar.

You've heard talk for decades.

Now you go back to the early 90s.

There was talk about defunding this kind of funding stream from the federal government.

Does this feel different to, you know, because I was, just beginning grad school at Syracuse University in the Newhouse School in 1967.

And there were many, many people in both parties, actually a little bit concerned about creating a BBC like kind of operation.

And, and many of my faculty members that, you know, the people I worked for, I was a grad teaching assistant.

If there was a split, even there at Newhouse, about whether government should have its pause in broadcasting at all.

And, it appeared to be our answer to the BBC and the CBC and the ABC, Australian Broadcasting Corporation.

So, you know, the battle has been going on for a long time.

And some of my best friends, as you were once a commercial broadcaster and you probably heard people call it was CPB and PBS and NPR, the, the welfare fund for, for noncommercial media.

And, you know, my dear friend Jack Palladino used to tell me that all the time.

Joking.

He would say, well, you know, you know, I know you're an exiled.

The time he says, you know, that's it's just a a welfare recipient from the federal government.

And, you know, commercial broadcasters despise you.

You especially because you've stolen their audience.

And from 12 to 2 every day, they used it seriously.

They used to own it and they don't own it anymore.

And what are you doing?

You're informing the community rather than doing the stuff that WAM is doing.

WAM is, you know, is poisoning the community.

So the battle's been going on for a long time.

I was a registered Republican until 1996, only because my family was.

I don't think I ever voted for many Republicans after Richard Nixon.

but Joe will remember this, people like Ken Keating, Barbara Carnival, Frank Horton, these were great, great folks.

And it was really easy to vote for Republicans.

And then all along, yeah, all of a sudden, Richard Nixon came along and the so-called southern strategy and then trying to figure out ways to divide the nation.

And, yeah, they really crystallized it under Ronald Reagan.

And then then they got their real mouthpieces and commercial radio with Rush Limbaugh and then Sean Hannity, and then Fox News came along.

So, the struggle is real.

And, you know, it's not going to be it's not going to be easy to win.

It's going to be long and difficult and hard to do.

Well, I have two, seven, seven.

Yeah.

Good.

Joe Evans Joe, I want to make a point, a build on what Thomas said.

Because, you know, when I was much younger, and I think we all remember I mean, you're probably too young, but Chris is probably ten the time and I are of a certain age.

Yes.

I mean, you remember here, Joe, we remember commercial networks that would have news as a loss leader.

They didn't make money and they knew they made it in the commercial programing and part of their public, you know, facing out facing was to do news.

And so they really were very committed to getting it right and, and carrying the news.

That's why Walter Cronkite was so important, etc.. What's really happened in the advent of the, you know, social media age, which is affected broadcasting as well, is where the commercial now, networks in many ways have made, these opinion programs.

So Fox is to the right, MSNBC is to the left, CNN is more center left, but still left.

But they're all, really based on, on a particular ideology.

and the, the importance of public broadcasting, particularly I mentioned the PBS NewsHour is because they're back to the days when you weren't trying to make money off the news.

Now the networks are trying to attract, you know, so-called eyeballs so they can get advertisers.

The moment now is greater than it's ever been in terms of the importance of public broadcasting, in my mind, because it doesn't have that profit motive attached.

Commercial news didn't decades ago, but certainly does now.

Well, and let me turn it back to our CEO, Sexy Chris Hastings.

And as I do that, I want to make something clear to our audience here in EOS and anyone, wherever you are, I understand that this is a loaded moment, that this feels very charged.

But I want to read the words of a Republican, a former NPR interim CEO who served on NPR's board.

That's Paul Haggard Jr, who wrote in the Washington Post this recently.

He's a Republican.

He says, quote, even though it's a small amount, taking the government money out of NPR could actually backfire and make NPR less moderate.

You're not going to punish the inside the Beltway liberals that you think you're punishing.

If you do that, the funding should continue.

First of all, we need the money.

Secondly, it's a reminder that we serve the public, not sponsors and funders.

End quote.

That is a Republican.

And the reason I read that is because no matter how you vote, no matter what your ideology, your political perspective is, we have to be for everybody and we absolutely are committed to it.

It feels a little bit oppositional right now.

It's not always a comfortable situation to be in because this funding really does matter.

But I don't want anyone to be turned, turned off to say, oh, okay.

It's just a bifurcated system.

Now, NPR's In This Box and MSNBC is in this box.

Joe Morelli is right when he says the notion of where you are on that spectrum does not enter in to how I think about what the show should be, how our newsroom works, how PBS does its work, how WXXI does its work.

I'm going to stop now and let Chris Hastings jump in if you'd like to.

Chris, go ahead.

No, I think you you captured that.

Well, public media is for for everybody.

and no matter where you come from, we, we make an effort to make sure that we have something for whatever community it is.

You know, you talked a little bit about, us, which is one of our decisions that we operate it, you know, our reach here and in this community isn't just Rochester.

It reaches out to the Finger Lakes, which are a rural community, and a lot of stations that are at risk right now are in rural communities.

Some might consider they're conservative communities, which means public media, whether it's NPR, PBS, which work really hard to make sure there's a balance in what we're presenting.

you know, I come from WGBH in Boston just six months ago, where I was running a news and documentary channel that was national, and we worked really hard to make sure that we were showing representation of what America looks like today.

And it's very diverse.

And I could use that words where you have people who are, where you have stories that present conservative, ideas.

And it's important that we do that because the whole point of public media is to be representative of what America looks like.

what's hard about this, this, this conversation today is that I, you know, I just don't think the administration at the moment knows enough about public media, and I really do encourage them to get out to to stations around the country and see what everybody is doing on the ground within their local newsrooms.

But the most important thing is the work that we're doing for kids.

You know, the big part, PBS is the kids programing, you know, and for me, as a kid who grew up with a single parent, PBS kids was a big part of my life growing up to the point where it got me ready to go to school.

I think it's important to really center the conversation and and engage with this administration so they understand that making these cuts would be detrimental to just our democracy, getting them to understand that we are part of the fabric of America.

And so it's hard to even have this conversation to think that these cuts might, might come just so.

And the other thing that it's expand on that this isn't an isolated incident or an isolated decision.

I mean, they have now gone after funding for museums and libraries, and they're going after the Smithsonian Institute.

They're going after the Library of Congress.

Anything that any institution which is intended to education for information, educational, you know, the education department.

And so it's almost as though somehow we aim to compete with our adversaries in China.

but we're not going to advance, research, education, critical thinking, anything that even, touches on.

And we're cutting back on the National Institutes of Health.

We're cutting back on the National Science Foundation.

I mean, I'm not sure how the president has worked this out in his mind.

but somehow, by stripping away all the things that help elevate everyone in society to think differently, to be creative, to understand our history, which is so important when you're looking to the future.

Anything at all is getting attacked because it doesn't comport with the president's personal views and philosophies, which, frankly, would be hard to describe anyway.

Joe, if I can interrupt to reiterate what they're saying.

as somebody who's, not a constitutional scholar, but somebody who has, observed communication systems through all kinds of governments, one of the most important things you that any authoritarian leader tries to do is control the means of communication and tries to suppress that.

If I didn't read all of project 2025, but I got far enough into it to know that all of this was going to happen.

In fact, I'm surprised that they didn't take the licenses away already.

As you know, he's trying to do to CBS to take away they own owned and operated licenses, closed down 60 minutes, a $20 billion lawsuit against CBS try to interfere with the, the transfer of Paramount.

You know, the parent company, and Viacom and, you know, trying to interfere with with that deal, if you can control the means of communication and if you can create a society that kind of becomes cut off from the world, you know, it's much easier to control them just to turn off the flow of the free flow of information.

And you, you come up with the control flow of information, and it's so much easier to control.

By the way, I think Joe has to do this, but, you give a lot more credit to the president and his brain power than is possible.

I got to stop you there.

I know I got to stop, I know you, I'm going to do this here.

Tom's point here.

I've got to get to some of our feedback or will drown, because we've got so much already coming in, and I have lifejackets in the air.

Tom's point about what functionally is the point of public broadcasting leads me to Tim's email.

I'm going to read Tim's email now and ask all of our guests to weigh in on this.

As we talk about the president's executive order seeking to defend defund federal funding of public media, Tim says even if the government is partially funding public media, isn't that the same as state media that we see in other countries?

Why should we want that?

And Tim sent this this morning.

I did a little bit of digging around here because I think it's a very good and very fair question.

And this was a question, by the way, that came up in 1967 over and over.

And it's important.

So I want to address this with a little background before I kick it to our guests.

First of all, state media is a term that tends to be pejorative in our political culture.

It refers to media that is directly owned and controlled by the government, not just partially funded.

So Russian state media is one that might come to mind.

State media tends to be associated with less democracy, less freedom, fewer rights, and a lot less independent journalism.

So NPR and PBS are not state media.

They are public media that have a minority portion of their budgets funded by the government.

15% of the budget for public broadcasting comes from the federal government.

Member stations that license NPR's content receive an average of 10% of their funding from CPB, although again, much bigger proportions if you are rural and in a smaller market.

And I want to quote here, Victor Pickard, a media policy researcher at the University of Pennsylvania's Annenberg School for communication.

In his 2022 study, he wrote the following quote it's always hard to nail down causation, but there is a correlation between strong public broadcasting systems and higher levels of political knowledge, greater levels of civic engagement, and lower levels of extremism.

It doesn't suggest that public media is a cure all for all of our social pathologies, but it's safe to say that a strong democracy requires a strong public broadcasting system.

End quote, sexy CEO Chris Hastings.

Would you like to add to that?

Yeah, I mean, I think you did it well and really educating us.

This is really about public space for educating people, and educating people what information is what's what's really being debated here.

I am really, excited to talk about, you know, the broad idea of democracy and why it's important for us to really educate people on, on how it all works.

You know, America is a complicated place, but I think what public media does well is really contextualize our history for folks who don't know who don't remember who where, it's not part of an everyday dialog.

It's super important that we keep that public space open, that public square, so that the idea is, that are there that are, that are just sort of out there, we can debate them.

you know, I can't really speak to why the president wants to shut down public media, but I think what I want to do is advocate for him, for the idea that we continue to keep the public space open so that we can continue to educate the generations on our history, to understand the context for why we have public media, why it's important that we are here today.

There was a reason why that was at 1967 law.

It's because a lot of communities before 1967 felt like media wasn't inclusive enough.

Public media was meant to open the door, so that more people could be represented.

and so I really hope as we continue to talk about that, let's talk about the idea that public media is probably more inclusive than commercial media.

In supporting that, we keep that that space open.

So everybody can learn.

Congressman, really, what would you say to Tim who who is thinking that this feels like a link to state media?

Yeah, I think you answered it.

Well, Evan, which is if it were state media in the way that we traditionally think of it, it would be the way that the Russian Federation controls its media or the North Koreans, which is to say all broadcasting is by the government, for the government leaders, whereas with PBS, for instance, again, going to their NewsHour, that would mean they would never, air any stories about protests against the government, which is clearly not true.

so the distinction is publicly supported versus publicly owned and run.

that's that's how I would make that distinction.

And, Tom, I think this is a good chance to keep educating people because, I mean, I think it's a Tim's questions, a fair one.

It's a great question.

It's the one that, you know, I have to admit that in 1967, I sat there, you know, I was leaving my undergraduate studies in chemistry and going into media, and I was so confused by the concept of the CPB, the Corporation for Public Broadcasting.

And then, you know, that it was going to be a corporation funded by the American people.

And I remember talking to my dad about it.

My dad was was still a Republican at that time, even though he had, you know, we kind of drifted it drifted away, and we were really confused as to what this was going to be, you know, because Lyndon Johnson was president.

Was your dad initially uncomfortable with it?

Yeah, he was uncomfortable the same way his father and my, my maternal grandfather were initially uncomfortable with the idea of Social Security checks for anybody until they started getting them.

Then my Republican grandfather, Papa marino, we used the kids used to walk down to the mailbox with him when the check came in and we'd say, Papa, are you going to tear up the check?

Because he used to say it came from Franklin Roosevelt, and he hated Franklin Roosevelt.

And he'd say, no, no, I earned this.

And I think that's exactly what Joe and Chris are reiterating.

And I think the question at term is, yes, that is so spot on.

And I think it's really important that we understand that, especially Chris made the point about before 1967, we had millions of Americans who were cut off from almost all information.

One of the greatest thing is, yeah, go ahead.

No.

I'm sorry.

What I wanted to say is the great thing is we've now had 60 years of history to look at.

And what is PBS broadcast as far as things like Mr. Rogers?

It brings us Nova.

It brings us, I mean, things that if you were to watch it, you'd be hard pressed to say that's a conservative or a liberal point of view.

It's just a presentation of different things that are going on in the world.

So the great thing is the debate that we had in 1957 over this shouldn't be a debate in 2025, because I think public broadcasting has repeatedly demonstrated through the decades it's its value to the American people, and particularly to American children.

So in the in that spirit here of being your community platform here, let's continue right along.

And I think we have Hillary first in Hilton.

Hi, Hillary.

Go ahead.

Hi there.

I'm a longtime listener and supporter of that Z.

And I just feel so protective over our local station here.

And given that there's been this change in leadership here, I just wanted to hear from Mr. Hastings directly.

since taking over as CEO at such a critical time in our country politically, how have you planned for this?

You know, we knew that something like this might happen, but I'd love to know some concrete details for what you have.

what ideas?

You have to secure XYZ future.

And I'll take my answer off the air.

Thank you.

Thank you Hillary.

Go ahead.

Chris.

Well, we're communicating.

That's the first thing.

we're actively talking to our local representatives.

I'm glad Joe is on because we've had a few conversations about this.

we we were really worried that some type of executive order would come.

and, you know, talking to Joe and talking to our other representatives in the state has been super important.

I'm going to say to you that replacing federal funding, if it gets cut, it's hard to replace that.

which is why we are actively trying to make sure that we're talking to not just our our representatives in Congress, but also making sure that we're talking to you, our members and our supporters and our audience, and let them know that we're going to need help if we if things go a different direction than we than we would hope for.

but I think what's important, WXXI is, diversely funded.

And so I think what's important is that while federal funding may go away, I don't think WXXI will go away.

And so we're really working with our board, working with our members of Congress, at the state level and at the federal level to make sure that we have alternative sources of funding.

But we're also actively fundraising across the board and different areas from our members and from our audience.

I would say, again, federal funding can't be replaced.

And so it's why it's super important that we stay engaged in this conversation with, with the administration and with our members of Congress in the hope that we continue to sustain that funding.

But we're also actively looking at what we do every day to make sure that we're working with our staff and with our boards, and make sure that we have different ways that we can say fund it in the years ahead.

and just briefly, to make sure we understand process here.

Congressman Morelli, you talked about CPB being funded by Congress through 2027. so this will end up in court.

Executive orders already have, as you as you have noted.

But, in the meantime, is this one of those situations where the white House will, be effectively able to cut off flows of money until courts can decide, or will it be such that CPB will be funded unless the white House wins a court case and says, yes, you can impound?

Well, okay, it's a great question.

and I think that the white House and the office of, Management and Budget, have been, doing everything they can to withhold funding.

And then we go to court and that we, as members of Congress are working with outside groups to make sure that they have adequate legal representation.

And then the courts will make decisions on whether, with this particular order is legal or not.

And the government, it is a, you know, this is this is very, very dangerous and a whole host of levels, every executive order that withholds funding or every decision by the administration to withhold funding is a violation of law.

So there are now dozens and dozens of examples with, the white House and OMB have, just violated the law and said, we're not going to send you the money and in some cases have begun doing that.

and they've gone after, in some places, Head Start, they've gone after, housing projects and programs.

so they're just doing it by fiat, which is why ultimately, the judiciary and the Congress will have to stand up.

But I also think this a woman's question earlier, Hillary had asked about what WXXI can do.

And I agree with Chris that talking to people, because here's what has to happen in America right now.

There are a lot of good Republicans in the House of Representatives and in the Senate.

Most of them are terrified, and they won't speak out and they won't say anything because they fear for their jobs, their livelihood.

You'd hope that that wasn't the case, but it is.

But this is when it starts to change.

When they fear their voters back home more than they fear Donald Trump, it will start to change.

And that only happens when people speak out.

When you send emails, when you make phone calls, when you write letters.

I mean, this really, truly is the only way to save the democracy, which I think, and I don't think it's hyperbole.

We have never, in 250 years seen an attack from the chief executive of our country, such an attack on, all the normative behavior, attack on the Constitution.

I mean, I hate to say this, and I know this far afield, but when the president says he doesn't know if something's in the Constitution or whether he's required by virtue of his oath to support the Constitution, it's literally in the oath, which is not very long.

I will defend the Constitution of the United States.

I mean, it's not really a hard one.

And you don't have to have read the Constitution, which I'm pretty sure the president hasn't done.

but somebody in his office should say, Mr. President, you actually have a responsibility to defend the Constitution.

But since he's picked sycophants to, to be his advisors instead of as his first term, that's one of the problems.

There's nobody in his office, nobody in his world, who ever says anything contrary to him in defense of the public or the Constitution.

Well, here's an email from Charlie and I'll Tom petty I want to hear what you think people can do here.

You've been a longtime member.

Yes.

How long.

Since 1968.

1980.

Once we started meeting you we were honest.

The operation was on East Avenue.

I started sending interns as soon as we could because the station could at that time, couldn't afford camera people.

I had camera, you know, I had students at Saint John Fisher who knew how to run camera, knew how to run sound boards, and many of them ended up doing, you know, their careers here and have gone on to great things.

I mean, it's so it's it's nothing new for me.

I've been I've been around since almost since the station began.

You may have Charlie, but we'll see.

Charlie says.

I've been watching PBS since my mom place my brother and me in front of channel 13 Wnet out of New York City in the 1960s, and to this day, Nova is my favorite TV show.

What Trump wants to do is punish the public.

Trump is about exclusion.

The polar opposite of PBS and NPR, which are about inclusion and love.

Those are two concepts.

This is what Charlie says the president does not value or understand.

And then he says he will have to pry my remote control locked out of my cold, dead hands.

Charlie says, I am up for the fight.

Where do I sign up now?

First of all, Charlie, I appreciate the membership and the support.

Second of all, I don't want anyone prying anything out of anybody's hands.

And, for Charlie, it's a remote control for people of all ages working to try to be on every platform you are.

So maybe it's still a remote control for you.

Maybe it's still a traditional radio for you.

Maybe it's new platforms.

We want to be on all the platforms.

Tom.

Charlie says he's up for the fight.

What do I do?

What do you think people should do?

Well, the first thing I would do is ask Joe what works most effectively.

You know what?

What are the folks in Washington paying attention to?

And I'm pretty sure they're paying attention to their constituents.

but, Joe, what's the what's the best attack that an individual like Charlie or me or or Hillary?

What can we do?

Well, okay, I you know, this is still people have to answer to voters.

And, I have a great number of friends who privately on the Republican side of the aisle will say, boy, I hate this.

I hate that.

but again, they fear the president.

The president is not above, and I know this because I've heard it firsthand from colleagues pulling them into the Oval Office and say, I will campaign against you.

I will ruin your career.

and so that fear is palpable.

And, you know, I think there are a lot of them rationalizing this moment and saying, well, okay, I'm going to have to give in because it's better that I'm here than someone like, Marjorie Taylor Greene or somebody who's on the extreme end of the Republican Party.

So the, you know, everybody can rationalize to some degree their activities.

And I think that's happening.

But when they start to feel real pressure from people back home, who say, I'm sorry, what, you're going to try to take away the Smithsonian, you're going to try to take away PBS and NPR, you're going to try to, undercut all the things that I value.

I'm sorry, I that is not what we signed up for.

In fact, this isn't even what the president talked about during the campaign, but that's the effective way.

So people need to make their voices heard.

you know, I think people in my district are probably frustrated because they probably agree with me.

So they feel like, I'm already there.

But there are other people in the region around the state, who have friends and family that should be talking to them about raising their voices.

That's the amazing thing about American democracy.

And what's the device that is most effective?

Is it a telephone call?

Is it an email?

Is it a letter that I sent through the postal system?

I think that's what we need to know.

Well, I'll tell you what.

I get a report every Friday afternoon for my staff.

How many phone calls came in, how many emails came in?

How many letters came in?

so I get up to date every seventh day.

And what the volume is, what the areas of concern people raised.

you know, I think someone sitting down and writing a, you know, a heartfelt, email, not not as much as, you know, just taking a form and just forwarding it, but actually writing something that means something to them.

I think that still is the most important, way of communicating outstanding with legislators.

And by the way, I have to tell the audience that I've written to your office, you know, I have, on many occasions, and the responses from your staff are just they're just fantastic.

I mean, you you have put together a crew there that is so good, and you don't.

I you've heard me say this to you before.

but we never thank you enough for all the hard work that you do.

Now, I really have to get to break here because two kind here.

I think we should end it right there.

No, I believe not, Mr.

Congressman.

Congressman Joe Morelli on the line with us from Washington.

Tom Brady, long time member of Iron Studio.

Chris Hastings, president, CEO of Public Media.

We're talking about the executive order from the white House that seeks to eliminate funding for public media.

And we're going to continue with your feedback.

I've got to get our only break in now.

Coming up in our second hour, Reuters reports that a record number of Americans are seeking UK visas that in Ireland, requests for visas are up 60%.

In France, it's 25%.

But really, how many so-called political refugees will there be?

Are there really going to be thousands, tens of thousands of people moving abroad?

We'll talk about it next hour.

You can ensure that WXXI news will continue to inform and enlighten future generations.

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This is connections.

I'm Evan Dawson.

Back to the phones.

We go Kevin and Victor.

Hey Kevin, go ahead.

hi, Evan.

you guys are kind of maybe ignoring or downplaying the fact that NPR has become just wildly and egregiously progressive liberal to the to the extreme.

And, you know, that should not be supported by taxpayer money because half the half of America does not support that.

It would be like if you were supporting, giving taxpayer money to Infowars.

So, you know, you said that this Republican, Evan, said that NPR would become less moderate if they didn't get government funding within that moderate.

But I do agree with him that it would become more radically liberal because you totally depend on MacArthur, Rockefeller, Ford, Soros, all those people.

So, you know, I've been keeping track of NPR for a while because I actually like NPR.

I started listening when the car guys were there.

Best thing ever on any radio.

They won't agree.

They weren't political.

They were geniuses.

They were so entertaining.

And, you know, it's NPR.

We just had programing like that.

I don't think anybody is.

Nobody would care.

Even Marjorie Taylor Greene would like it.

But, you that's not where you are.

Well, so let me just jump in.

I appreciate the call, Kevin.

So a couple things here.

first of all, this is not a situation in this country where half the country is one thing and half is another.

We are really kind of polarized among thirds in the way we vote a third vote one way, a third are voting another, a third are not voting.

And so it's not a 5050 deal.

But, let me also just explain what the Republican who I was quoting was saying.

The former interim CEO of NPR about a decade ago, Paul Haggard Jr, is a Republican who recently wrote a piece defending the federal funding of NPR.

And when he says, if you take it all the way, it's going to make NPR less moderate.

What he means is this when you go to a commercial model, purely commercial, when you go to a profit driven model, it just moves the product in the direction of wherever and audiences.

That's why you have a Fox News that serves one audience.

You have an MSNBC, as Joe mentioned, that serves another audience.

And then down the line, you mentioned Infowars wars.

You can go to Breitbart, you can go to pajama media, you can go there.

I mean, there's I could do it all day.

and it serves the audience that already exists.

And it gives them what they already want.

Confirmation bias dominates that kind of a model.

NPR doesn't exist for that purpose.

And I know, Kevin, to you, it feels like it does.

And I know it feels like it's really hard on the president.

I can tell you there are plenty of Democrats who also feel like NPR newsrooms have been very challenging to them and should be, and Joe Morelli should never come on this program.

The congressman should never come on this program or anywhere that he thinks he's not going to be challenged.

And I would expect him to expect to be challenged by me or by you, the listener or by anybody.

If you feel like it's tough because of where things are at the white House, I respect that.

But I don't accept the idea that NPR and I or these newsrooms fit an ideological model.

I mean, I know right now we're so polarized in this era, but I think we can break away from that.

I think we can break it.

But if I I'd be curious.

I don't know.

Kevin Stone, but Kevin, I'm just so curious.

Like what?

What like examples?

Because I'm struggling to sort of understand how it's moved left.

I mean, I watch a lot of, WXXI programing on television.

I don't really get the sense there, but I'm curious as to what you think and what in your opinion, has moved to the left that you would cite.

Yeah.

Go ahead.

Kevin.

Okay.

let me give you a couple examples.

have you ever listened to on the media with, look, there.

It's a lovely book.

Right.

Okay.

There constantly bashing conservative media, conservatives in general.

it's just relentless.

have you ever heard Terry Gross have a conservative guest on since she, drove Bill O'Reilly off the chat?

I don't I haven't heard one.

Whenever they do anything pertaining to Christianity, the only person they bring on is Bart Herman.

He's an atheist.

He used to be a Christian.

I read them 30 years ago when he was a Christian.

He, the confirmed atheist, trying to give comfort to all the other atheists.

You know, the guy doesn't exist.

Whatever.

He's a biblical historical scholar.

He's.

Yeah, I know exactly what he is.

I read him for 30 years.

Yeah.

Mary Louise Kelly, she interviewed Fauci three times during Covid.

She didn't ask him one hard question, even after he'd been grilled by Rand Paul and other people about his complicity with the Covid.

All right, so let me jump in, Kevin, because I want to get a lot of other views.

And I want to say this, there's going to be phone calls I don't even get to today.

Kevin is an occasional caller.

I very much appreciate that.

And we chose that phone call for a reason because I want to air this and I want people to hear this.

Joe Morelli, do you want to start with a response there?

Go ahead.

Mr..

Congressman.

No, I mean, I, I think my observation and I I'll admit, I don't spend as much time watching the media as, as maybe others do.

but and, and more that I deal with in terms of exposures, early television, when I, get home at night when I'm back in Rochester and recognize none of that.

But I'll admit that I don't spend very much time listening on the radio other than that.

Evan, and you know that, because what I've been watching, I would like.

But but, I mean, at least on the television, I don't see any of it when I see NPR, NewsHour or, other programing.

I don't get the sense that.

But I appreciate, Kevin's perspective.

I was just curious as to why he felt, what what examples.

And, you know, obviously has some things that, that he's been following that, that makes him feel as though it's left leaning.

I haven't had that experience.

All right.

Chris Hastings, do you want to respond to Kevin as well?

Before we move on to some other callers?

I also think there's a bit of a perception that has been put out there that NPR and PBS is liberal.

I think, you know, in some cases, people who are who come with conservative points of view, they sometimes steer away from our platforms.

And I would say that we always have an open door to bring those points of view on with understanding that we're we're always going to fact check, we're always going to be balanced and fair.

We're not going to put something on air that isn't true.

Not to say that conservative points of view, are false, but I think what's important is the public square is open to everybody, and I hope the, the, the shows that, that he mentioned, you know, that he's sending his feedback to them directly because each of those shows are independently booked, in each of those shows are individually produced.

And I know for a fact on NPR, they they've added in a whole editorial team to really look at balance.

I really do encourage people with conservative points of view, continue to keep engaging because we want to engage with you.

and it's important that we do because sometimes we all have our blind spots.

Right.

But I think we're honestly asking ourselves internally about how do we make the public square more open.

The perception of us being liberal isn't something that we necessarily want.

We actually want to make it accessible.

that's the whole point of public media to be accessible to everybody with understanding that we're going to be fair, we're going to be balanced, and we're going to be really, thoughtful in what we present.

All right.

let me get Julie.

And by the way, Kevin, call anytime.

Thank you for the phone call.

Julian.

Brighton.

Next.

Hey, Julie.

Go ahead.

Yes, hi.

I, I, I want to disagree with with Kevin.

I've been a member since 1980, and I'm a sustaining member.

And I just think the term, like, fair and balanced.

It's fair.

I, I don't know how someone could be balanced, like, it's it's fair because that usually has the truth and it has the facts.

And I think, you know, is someone just mentioned there's a lot of, that's finally going on.

And if you have, you know, a station like Fox, there's, there's a lot of things that aren't true.

So would you call it Republican or what?

I mean, if, PBS is is liberal, well, then not then I feel that's great because it's just telling the facts.

It isn't one side or another.

Well, let me jump in.

And I appreciate that.

From the journalist perspective, I think Chris Hastings made a really good point there.

The best thing we can be from the start is aware of our own biases.

Human beings.

Sometimes people talk about Cronkite in very romantic ways, and they say that was the last unbiased journalist and Walter Cronkite was a human being.

He had his own biases.

Sure, he did work that a lot of people respected and didn't feel like they knew where his priors were.

That's great.

That's a very effective journalist who knows your yourself well enough.

So even though I know that someone like Kevin Victor, who calls once in a while, smart guy, if I even if I disagree with them personally, I'm not going to not take that call.

I want to engage with this.

I want everyone with a chance to change each other's mind, change the host's mind to to give everybody a voice in this community no matter where you're from.

And I do appreciate the idea, and, Julie, that, you know, this is going to be, it's more important about what is the truth.

it's not about trying to find sort of a false sense of balance, but balance does mean making sure all voices are welcome at the table doesn't mean that all ideas are equally valid or always correct, but people do deserve to have a chance to air them always.

That's what I think.

And by the way, all the studies of journalism that have been done since about the 1840s and it began then, because that's when objectivity first became a topic, a concept of possibility.

All the studies indicate that journalists tend to be more, quote, liberal simply because they recognize the problems in society.

Ask Evan, ask me.

I'll never forget that.

I first started doing some reporting and and my father said to me one day after reading something that I wrote, he said, son, there are at least two sides to every story, and probably more.

And I think you only got one in this story.

And I'll never forget that the rest of my life.

I looked at him and I said, she's really pretty smart guy, aren't you?

And it's difficult to find the truth, but it's also difficult to discern, to disregard the problems in our culture.

Yeah.

And that's what journalists have to do, and I hope go after those things.

I hope people keep coming on.

Art writes to us to say, if I had a dollar for every time I heard someone on NPR or XYZ say, we reached out to invite an individual on, but they declined.

I would own an island in the Bahamas or several.

well, Congressman Borelli has been gracious enough to accept our invitation.

We're down to our last two minutes.

I want to give you about 45 seconds.

What?

You want to leave with listeners, Mr..

Congressman?

Well, look, I think we're at a very dangerous time in America.

I, I think there's no precedent for it.

the executive orders being issued by the president, for the most part, are patently illegal.

he has again, as I said, doing everything he can to attack the judiciary, attack the freedoms embodied in the Bill of rights and, attack the ability for Americans to vote.

and he's going to continue to do it until Americans tell him no.

And the way to do that is through their direct representatives.

And I'm I'm just really hopeful.

But we're not going to stop.

We're going to continue to push back.

And look, this doesn't have to do with right or left Republican, Democrats.

I had enormous respect for, George H.W.

Bush.

And frankly, George W Bush looks a lot better to me these days than he did when he was president.

But they were all committed to America, American ideals, the Constitution, whatever we agree or disagree about the size of government or the level of taxation or the problems that we choose to address, we we rely on a president who cares about the American public, not about putting money in his own pocket, in the pocket of his, well, loyal friends.

And that, unfortunately, has been the, really the headline for the first 100 days, Chris Hastings down to the last minute.

strong public media is a strong democracy, and we need you, wherever you are within our community, to advocate for us.

We need you to speak to your local representatives.

We need you to tell.

Share your story about why public media means to you.

And you know, I I'm going to just say this.

If you believe in what we're doing, feel free to support us.

I z.org.

You know, what's important here is we are, a beacon in this community.

And we're going to continue to be so, because we serve our local audiences with news and information and children's programing.

So we're looking at here for you.

We want to engage you and we and we really want you to be part of this conversation.

Greg, listening and watching on YouTube and in San Diego, a Rochester expat says that this is the public square for the Rochester community and region.

It's a space for all opinions.

Greg, over in San Diego, thank you for tuning in for everyone who has joined the conversation.

Kevin in Pittsford.

Different.

Kevin, wrote in to say he's doubling his sustaining contribution.

Kevin that means a lot and that will certainly help.

That's kind of a bulwark against what may be coming, but we will do our best to keep you up to speed.

Chris Hastings, our CEO and president, public media is one of the busiest people I know.

Thanks for popping in.

Let's talk again soon with the listeners.

Chris.

Thank you sir.

Congressman Joe Morelli, thank you for making time.

And you're welcome back here whenever you're in town, sir.

Thanks, brother.

Tom Preti, resident media scholar at Saint John Fisher University and a member since 1968.

Yes, sir.

I love the place.

Thank you very much.

More connections coming up in just a moment.

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