From WXXI news.

This is connections.

I'm Evan Dawson.

Our connection this hour was made just over a month ago when the Rochester City School District Commissioners Camille Simmons and Amy Malloy were elected president and vice president of the board, respectively.

Camille Simmons and Amy Malloy step into positions that had been held by Commissioners Cynthia Elliott and Beatrice Lebrun, and it didn't happen without some dissent.

Some commissioners on the board have privately said that this is a school board still beset by division, same as it ever was, while Simmons and Malloy want to change that.

Camille Simmons works in the field of leadership training.

Amy Malloy is a teacher.

Both have said that their focus is on the students of the district first and foremost.

So why should people in the district believe that these are the leaders who can bring some stability to a board that seems forever stuck in the hamster wheel of chaos?

This hour is a chance to hear from them.

A year ago on this program.

The board president at the time, Cynthia Elliott, told us she really felt like things were finally changing for the better on the board.

Let's find out how the new leaders of the board feel and what their focus is going to be on in the short term, mid-term, long term.

We'll welcome your questions comments as well.

You can do that in multiple platforms.

You can call the program toll free.

It's 844295 talk (844) 295-8255.

If you call from Rochester, it's 22639994.

That's the Rochester number 26399994.

You can email the program as always connections at dot org.

If you're watching on the Sky news YouTube channel.

Hello you can join the chat there and we'll welcome your feedback in a moment.

We'll welcome the president to the board.

Camille Simmons is on the way.

For now, let me say hello to the Vice president of the board, Amy Malloy, who's with us in studio.

Hello.

Thanks for being here.

Thank you so much for having me.

And we were joking with Amy.

Poor Amy.

Every time we talked to Amy, you just coming off a cold or some kind of an ailment?

Yeah.

How are you doing today?

Well, I'm in the middle of the cold still, so, sounding a little nasally right now, but, thank you for understanding.

Oh, it's no problem.

Thank you for making the time and making this happen.

And it's important community service to have a chance to talk to leaders directly.

I want to say to listeners as well, we are inviting all members of the board to talk to us on days that fit their schedule about issues that they want to talk about.

And there's a lot facing, this district.

That is no secret.

but I will start with this.

Amy Malloy, you're the vice president of the Rochester City School Board now.

Still getting used to that title.

Perhaps you're in your fifth year as a board member.

did you expect when you first ran for this office that you'd want to be in the leadership of the board?

No, actually, I never really envisioned myself in this type of role.

we are an organization that is 90%, students of color.

and I didn't see myself helping in this work while I consider myself an ally.

I didn't think that I should be the one necessarily leading in that way.

and instead supporting from behind the scenes.

so I've never really considered that before.

and I'm really honored that I get to serve my community in this manner.

And I'm honored that, you know, commissioners supported me, in this what changed in your mindset about having a position like this?

I think as we adopt a new governance model for the board, being able to actually implement that governance model with any degree of fidelity, we need to have the support, for that.

And I think that we're going to be in a better position to make sure that that gets fully implemented.

with this new leadership.

I, I know it's not a secret that this is a hard job.

And Camille Simmons joining us now, we'll say hello to the president of the board and just a second.

I know it's not a secret that your work is going to be very difficult.

how do you assess right now how divided or how united this board is?

You know, we've always been denied, we've always been a bit divided.

but this isn't a new experience or phenomenon for the Rochester City School District School board.

I would argue that the last 30 or 40 boards, you know, or 30 or 40 years have been marred by division amongst board members.

I think that we are finally in a place where we can all come together around a new governance model, and if we truly, you know, put student outcomes first.

If we we truly look at ourselves and are reflective in our own contributions to the dysfunction on the board, I have to look at myself and point those thumbs right back at me.

because I've added to to chaos here and there.

And if we truly are interested in moving this board and this work forward and actually making a difference in the lives of our students, which is why we say we're all here, you know what we're here for, if we truly can do that.

you know, student outcomes don't change until adult behaviors change.

And that starts with me.

What's an example of of a moment where you might have look back and say, I might have been contributing to cast there instead of soft in engaging in dialog.

That's not going to be productive for our students or, you know, chiming in on arguments that might be taking place, really, that maybe I'm not a part of, right, offering opinions when those opinions might not be needed at that moment and might be more harmful.

just among other things, I know it can be hard to stay on the sidelines.

I also know, you know, you're describing some sometimes heated moments that happen, whether it's in a family or a marriage or on a board or in a company.

Sometimes heat can produce good outcomes.

Sometimes strong ideas do need to be explored.

There's there's a difference, though, between that and destructive rhetoric or rancor that isn't.

And you seem to be describing the latter, at least in your view.

You know, I think that it's important for everyone to be authentic.

And in this work, I'm actually learning myself how to be more authentic and show people the real Amy Malloy.

Right.

If you're not coming across as authentic to the people that you serve, then you shouldn't sit on the board.

So I value authenticity, and we have seven very different members, people who have different life experiences, lived experiences, and those are of value to this board.

and so, yeah, authenticity is is is critical.

Well, let me welcome the president of the Rochester City School Board.

That's Camille Simmons.

Yes.

Thank you for making time.

Thank you so much for having me.

And I know everyone is busy.

it's just over a month into, a presidency on a school board.

I was asking your colleague if she.

When she first ran for the board, envision the leadership position.

I'll ask you the same thing when you decided to run for the school board, did you think eventually you want to be the president of the school board?

Actually, I never even thought I'd be on the school board.

Right.

So, you know, again, my my, commitment to youth and our community in over 20 years of working with youth inside Rochester City Schools, well before I was introduced to the idea of school board, is truly the root of my passion.

And so I think that, leadership and I shared this last time I was on.

I truly believe leadership is a journey, and some people have their eyes pointed.

I want to be a lawyer when I grow up.

no, I never said, hey, I'm going to be on the school board or even the president of the school board.

But as you sit in your leadership journey, even I think, you begin to lean in.

And even if it's difficult, even if it's not, going to be shiny and great.

you lean into what the call might be and you recognize it when you see it.

And that's what I believe I did.

Well, you have the job now, that is a very, very difficult one.

Absolutely.

It's coming off of, as we've been discussing, decades of struggle to produce harmony, better outcomes for students, you know that.

Absolutely.

and you and I've talked about the fact that in your work, in leadership training, you recognize there's different styles of leadership.

Absolutely.

What is your style of leadership?

You know, I try to, practice what I preach.

What I do recognizes a leader is that, it's similar to what Vice President Malloy just said.

We all come with different personalities.

and so you can't contort or force people into a box.

And I do think there's value in every style, if even if it's not amenable to your particular style.

for me, I think it's important to listen, gain understanding of the perspectives of your colleagues.

If you're not listening, if you're not trying to understand where folks are coming from, you you can miss some valuable opportunities for learning to challenge yourself.

And so, it's imperative that we maintain open minds.

and try to build consensus around things that will produce outcomes for our students.

I want to ask you a question that I want to try to be as fair as I can.

Yeah.

And ask you a question that isn't meant to try to be overly provocative, but I think people may be wondering.

And part of the reason it's kind of unfair is I don't want to ask you to denigrate your colleagues.

What you've both already done is praise your colleagues.

I do want to ask you why you thought it was important to change the leadership now, though, without asking.

I'm not trying to be overly provocative, but I this change doesn't happen unless you think it probably should happen.

Yeah.

So why did why did it need to happen?

You know, for me, for a while now, leadership didn't just come to me as, this is a goal for me.

It actually came to me through folks asking me to consider it for quite a while.

And, that's kind of what planted the seed.

And, you know, you don't want to lean in.

Who wants to lean in to something that is as unforgiving as, the the presidency of the school board, right.

it's a it's not a fancy job.

It's not, a praised position.

And when you walk into something like this, it's a it's a heavy, heavy load.

And I really had to center my.

Why, I had to pay attention to the conditions in front of me, and I had to determine if it was the time to say, maybe I need to go ahead and do it.

So I think, again, I look at conditions, I look at, what I believe needs to happen, and I center it on that, and I center it on.

Do I believe I can support students?

I don't believe that, I, as an individual person, will be the shiny unicorn that comes in to save the day.

But I do believe that sometimes certain seasons call for certain styles of leadership.

I noticed you haven't put any executive orders out.

Have you been watching Washington?

I think it's the laws of have mercy.

You.

You executive orders if you want them, I guess.

No, you got to do things collaboratively.

Yeah, I think I think it's good to do things collaboratively.

If if I could, I spike my pen, but.

No, I'm not interested in that.

And I think that's that's an example of what we're seeing in DC.

as an example of leadership.

I don't want to be I don't believe in, sweeping orders.

I do believe in congeniality and working collaboratively with colleagues.

So let's talk about, kind of a broad issue.

And then we're gonna kind of get specific listeners as we talk about, I know listeners are curious to know what's going on with the superintendent search.

What are some of the big issues facing the district that need to be addressed?

more directly or quickly?

but let me just start with a broad question for both of you.

When you talk about putting students first and not getting bogged down in, you know, sort of individual squabbles or port board problems, that's, you know, that's, I think, positive rhetoric.

What's it what's actually look like?

What does that look like?

I like that question.

it is and I'm going to digress as well to, to my, my colleague.

But for me, I would, I would say that, yeah.

Right.

It sounds good.

And the reality is you have to work with folks and there's not always going to be agreement.

for me, it comes back to centering.

I have to go in and reflect every day.

This is not something that you, you do get right every day.

And so you have to go back and reflect on your actions, make decisions on how you're going to move forward in spite of you have to know what's going to come at some point or another.

Someone's not going to agree, there's going to be a difference of opinion.

And it might it might not feel good.

And when you're talking about systems change and doing real work, it doesn't look good.

It's not pretty.

and so for me, it's about that self accountability because it's easy to point out what what you feel other people are not doing right.

I have to continuously look at myself, reflect on myself.

And another piece that I, hold on to is our students, our educators, our community deserves, respect.

Respect is important.

And so it is imperative that as I sit in any seat, be it the president, Commissioner, any seat, I sit in, I need to be able to present that level of respect that I think our community deserves and our students, they deserve to see that.

Vice President Malloy, what does it look like to put students first?

Well, I think, reflective leadership, of course, as President Simmons just mentioned and we have to also consider why is it that we are here, what is our purpose as an educational board?

And that purpose really is we're here and we exist to educate students, to educate students.

And with what we're seeing, district wide, that isn't happening necessarily.

People are trying.

but if you look at our numbers, they are great.

And we we can do a better job.

So our existence is dependent on being able to educate our, our students.

If as a board, we can not only be reflective, be self-reflective, but understand, truly understand that charge and not get bogged down in the day to day operations of the district.

That's the superintendent's job, that's management.

We truly understand what a governance role looks like.

We can get to the business of educating students.

We'll talk in our second half hour about this new governance model that our colleagues have talked about, that, I think is central to some of what's happening with the board.

but Amy just mentioned the new superintendent search.

David emailed, listen, David emailed to ask if the next superintendent is going to come from the district like the last one did.

So, you know, this is a chance to break some news.

Do you have an announcement?

Well, like last time, Evan, thank you for your application for it with, you know, no announcement today, but the work is ongoing on this absolutely ongoing.

We're taking it very serious.

And, we look forward to being able to share that information with the community when the time, does present itself.

Okay.

Not today, not today.

Okay.

what's the process look like from here?

Yeah.

So we are on a tight timeline, and I believe we're hoping to have a decision, made by March 1st.

Somewhere around there.

and we, you know, at that point will be able to share what that looks like, who that may be.

And, take it from there.

This is where I have no idea how much you're allowed to say, but, I mean, do you have finalists there?

You have a short list?

Amy is looking at me like you want.

You want to jump on this one, Vice President Malone?

Well, I don't want to interrupt my my colleague.

I go ahead, president Simmons.

with no interruption.

Yeah.

We are, we are progressing, and we are moving forward in the, interview process.

So I do want to keep that tight.

I want to, acknowledge and respect the sanctity of the process, which is a private search.

Okay.

Do you feel good about who you've seen so far?

Do you feel like in a month or so when we're talking about the selection, which sounds like we're about a month away, that you're going to feel good about it?

Yeah, absolutely.

Absolutely.

That's a that's a yes.

Yes.

Okay.

David, question about whether it's an internal hire.

Does that matter to you?

Does it matter if the candidate comes from already working in the Rochester City School District as Doctor Peluso did, or from outside the district, as many other previous superintendents have?

I think that, you know, it's important to, hear from the community, which was part of this process and things that you'd like.

Ultimately, the decision that I think is most important is, taking a look at, candidates that we have and making sure we pick a candidate or select a candidate that we believe will make the greatest impact for our students.

And so that is important.

But we have and do consider, all of the feedback presented by the community as well.

you agree I agree wholeheartedly, yeah.

Okay.

so again, we're about a month away from a decision on that.

And I know every time there's a new superintendent selected, it's a it's a big announcement.

We haven't really seen one stick.

it's been well documented at this point.

We'd have to go over what happened with Doctor Peluso.

who's now over at Churchville.

Charlie.

But, one other question I have on this is, do you envision this next election as someone who is likely to break that streak and actually be here for a while?

Is that important to you?

Absolutely.

And I'll also again digress to my colleague.

But before I do, I want to say that that is imperative.

when I came onto the board and my years in the community, I've watched what I refer to as the hamster wheel of superintendents, and that is a key, component that leads to the instability.

Obviously, of the district and student learning.

new superintendent comes in a new vision, a new plan, and, educators are forced to, contort to what the new shiny, learning objectives will be.

And so when we need to create that, it is imperative that we get someone that sticks.

And I'm hoping that our, focus on our new school board governance model and, will help us to build our muscle around supporting the superintendent on the level which in which he or she will deserve.

and you've had an interim, by the way, who is someone from within the district?

Dr. Mario Strickland, are you satisfied with the job he's done?

Demetrios?

he's a great, gentleman, and I, you know, it's fun.

I worked with him, and our equity in student achievement committee, so I begin to work with him first there and learned a lot around, the instructional core and how to promote, student outcomes.

So that was, been a great, experience that, that we've been able to build rapport and relationship over time.

You agree with that?

Absolutely.

How's he doing?

It's doing a great job.

Okay.

Is he a candidate for the permanent position?

We can't we can't discuss candidates.

You can't say that.

You tried it though, Evan.

That was I got it.

Yes, it was good.

I have to ask.

Okay.

so that's that's the latest there.

And I'm sure they'll be back to, in a month or so.

Weeks or so, whatever the case may be.

You're welcome back.

I hope you do come back when that decision is made.

but that's where that process is.

I want to ask you about something that some of my colleagues that I have been working on, and that's issues of, some of the concerns that, English language learner students have, especially with, the new administration and some of the, the questions about what's going on with, immigrant families, possible deportation.

I know there are rumors.

I don't know how solid they are of higher absenteeism rates now of, English language learner students in the last few weeks.

Are you seeing that?

Yes, that that would be an accurate assessment.

So that's happening.

Yes.

Families are are afraid.

Yeah.

It's definitely happening nationwide though.

This isn't just, you know, go anywhere in our country right now and you're going to see many families, experiencing this and a lot of students afraid to come to school.

So our district is no different.

I do want to praise our administration for the efforts that they have to jump right on this.

And they have plans in place and have communicated those, very clearly to staff members throughout the district.

they've attended community meetings, as have, you know, President Simmons as well as myself.

so that is happening.

And I just want to praise our district for being so proactive, to try to create a climate where students feel safe.

are you able to talk about what those plans are?

When families say, what are we supposed to do here?

I don't know if we should send, you know, our kids to school.

Do you have a plan?

There's I think there's a balance in that plan.

So there is a plan that has been communicated to educators.

if, you know, some someone was to show up at the front doors of the school, right.

What does that look like?

and I think as as things evolve, you have to make sure you adapt to those changes.

And so those plans are proactively being communicated.

But I also believe there's a sensitivity on how that communication looks.

and to just be frank with you, you have to be a little bit covert in these spaces.

as far as you don't, you know, if you're planning for safety, you don't want to tell people, hey, I'm going to go hide across the room.

You don't want to let them know.

You know what?

You're what you're doing.

So there is a strong plan in place and the communication is adaptive.

And we want to make sure we are are careful.

With what that communication.

It's, I think it's important to point out that there's a, there's going to be a lot of buzz and rumors, and then there's question of what's actually happening.

NPR had reported a, I think a couple of weeks ago now that the new administration, has essentially said that they feel that they can pull kids out of school.

If that comes to that.

I don't know that we've seen cases like that so far.

It's only been a few weeks.

and I would think that those would, if that happens, would be pretty high profile.

I also, I don't want to be naive.

it is pretty wild to think of pulling kids out of a classroom in that way.

Ice agents coming in, pulling a kid out, putting them in the back of a truck in front of their classmates.

Go ahead.

Amy.

Well, we also just want to make sure that we're not speculating to and creating any type of fear mongering.

That's what I'm saying.

I don't I don't want people to feel like that's imminent, even though this administration has indicated that they feel like that.

That's inbounds.

Right.

So until it happens, I mean, again, no naivete here.

I think anything maybe possible, but it sounds like you don't want students scared that that's going to be happening every day or, or happening at all.

What we want students and families to know is that we support, that we have plans in place, and that the Rochester City School District does not stand alone and truly in this particular time, which is unprecedented, it is going to require the collective community, the collective city government, the county it's going to require people to lean in.

And so and, you know, there's legal aspects to this too.

So this is not just, you know, some quick fix idea.

And this is our process.

We there's, conversations with legal entities to, make sure we're understanding the law and what our limitations are and what we can do to help.

But we do not stand alone.

Okay.

talking to the president and vice president of the Rochester City School Board, to state the obvious, I mean, Amy, your teacher to state the obvious, if something like that came to pass, what do you think the impact would be on this students?

I mean, all the students in the classroom like that.

Well, obviously that would be traumatic.

But again, we we want to make sure that our students and families know that they are safe.

I teach in a suburban district.

Similar plans have been communicated in those districts as well.

It was a topic at the recent Monroe County School Board Association meeting that we had just, last Saturday.

everyone wants to make sure that their students are feeling safe and supported.

What else are you seeing with this new administration that has affected your work, either on this board or for you teaching?

Amy, is there anything else that stands out?

Well, I think I teach in a very liberal community and, with students who often share the same political ideology, and I try to be as balanced as possible within my classroom.

I, I don't want to say that I have it easy.

but I also have many families that are very knowledgeable about, political process and just current events in general.

so I feel very blessed in that regard.

but yeah, students want to talk about this in the classroom, students, and we shouldn't shirk away from it.

it's important for us to recognize that kids want to have a safe space to, to have these discussions, no matter what their political beliefs are.

And, and I always try to do that in my own classroom.

Yeah.

If you want to add to that.

Yeah.

I just want to say, as far as our board work, yes, I think across the board, every commissioner has a strong understanding of the impact it has, particularly in our school district.

this is a time now more than ever that we make really conscious decisions around how we're approaching even our budget.

You know, there's there's threats to Medicaid dollars, that could impact preschool, our pre-K Head Start programing.

It can impact, free or reduced meals with many of our students, are able to take advantage of it.

Can, even impact special education services?

right.

And that that reimbursement in school health clinics can be impacted by this.

So it's, it's there's a very viable concern around how we're making decisions and how we're, strategically and proactively making those decisions.

But it's very real.

And it's in the hearts and minds of our scholars and, educators day after day.

Let me get a phone call.

This is Robert in Fairport.

Hey, Robert.

Go ahead.

I'm kind of curious if the board ever considers, the productivity of other school districts in upstate New York.

looking at some of the test scores for English language arts, the Regents test, the Buffalo City School District has scored 16 points higher than the Rochester City School District.

The demographics are not all that different between Rochester and Buffalo.

And Buffalo must be doing something differently than Rochester.

in this area.

I'm wondering if they ever look into that and see, you know, what are they doing that we're not doing?

Robert?

Thank you.

I can speak to that.

Okay.

Yeah.

Go ahead, vice president.

Well simply speculate.

Listen, I've, I've helped to bring the governance model that we are adopting to the Rochester City School District.

And what happens in the board room trickles down to our classrooms.

Buffalo has had this governance model more fully implemented, for the last year than we have.

I was on the cohorts with many of those members.

so I would argue, and this is me talking personally, that perhaps it has something to do with governance.

And in addition to that, I, to answer the question pointed, I would say, yes, there's an appetite.

And even more so now to drive, an understanding of what models are out there working.

so sometimes you can have the best laid plan, but if you fall short in practice, if you fall short in execution or implementation, the plan was just a plan.

and so there is an appetite to understand models and structures that are working in other spaces or even internally in the Rochester City School District.

That's another piece we miss.

Evan is on.

You know, we look at our graduation rates in a collective, if you take out and look at individual school communities, there are communities in the Rochester City School District that I have higher graduation rates.

For example, Rochester Early College may have produced a 98% graduation rate.

Right?

We have some schools that are performing very well.

So even within our own district, there's an opportunity to look at, practices or models that are working for them.

But to answer the caller's question, yes, there's an appetite to, become more sophisticated on how we are adopting strategies.

Yeah, I'm looking at so some of the numbers here from the recent state of our, state of our children and the, the Rock the future report card.

what percentage of Rochester Rochester eighth graders are proficient in math?

3.8%.

in the latest count, you know, I mean, it's nobody would say that those are acceptable.

And I know the board all the board agrees.

We've talked about this for years now.

but when we come back from this only break, I want to talk about vice president.

Always point about what could start to change that.

So you mentioned a governance model.

And that sounds kind of abstract, people.

Let's talk about what that means because you're looking at Buffalo Buffalo's numbers currently better.

And one speculation is maybe that model is working for the board and for them for the district.

So let's come back with the president.

Vice president of the Rochester City School Board, Camille Simmons and Amy Malloy are with us.

We'll take more of your feedback as well.

After this only break, but Coming up in our second hour, two members of the New York State Assembly joined us in studio Jen Lunsford, a Democrat, Josh Jensen, a Republican.

They're talking about whether they think individual states like New York should be doing more to prepare for what's coming from the new Trump administration, whether it's on Medicaid spending for health care, other rights and entitlements or more.

And we're going to talk to both members of the Assembly next hour.

President Trump has laid out a plan for the Gaza Strip, asserting that the U.S. will take ownership of the territory.

But Gaza's police force is still active.

They are in every roundabout and every junction.

What this means for the future of the Gaza Strip and the Palestinians who live there.

On All Things Considered, from NPR news.

This afternoon at four.

This is connections.

I'm Evan Dawson.

844295 talk.

If you want to call the program (844) 295-8255, it's 263 WXXI for call from Rochester.

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Great to have you along with us, with the president and Vice President of the Rochester City School Board.

And they've been in that role for just over a month now.

Camille Simmons and Amy Malloy, or with us in studio now.

Any of you pointed to Buffalo to say, look, their numbers right now are a little higher than Rochester's, and you think a different kind of a governance model might be making a difference.

There.

What does that mean?

What is a governance model and then what's come in here?

Thank you.

So, you know, you have governance, which is that 30,000ft level of looking down on the district.

And, you know, we have three jobs as a as a board.

We have to pass a budget, but a balanced budget every single year we make policy and our main job is hiring and evaluating a superintendent.

Superintendents are the ones in charge of management.

They handle the day to day operations.

And we call those things inputs.

You know, in this governance model.

And that's a word you're going to hear us using in the next couple of years quite a bit.

but successful boards and this kind of touches on the question that your caller, had just a little while ago, you know, have we looked at other districts and what they're doing, you know, successful boards analyzed data, successful boards can sit in a room and look at those numbers and then progress, monitor their superintendent towards better outcomes and and towards those goals that we've set for ourselves.

So we're really in the kind of the genesis of this, entire governance model.

we've adopted goals, which is great.

but we we have to start implementing a strategy to, progress, monitor the goals themselves.

And I think that might be a difference between us and other districts that have already maybe adopted this type of model.

All right.

Progress monitoring happens.

How like, what's an example of what that might look like.

So, being able to get a regular reports from our superintendent, there are rubrics, specific rubrics that are recommended by this, by the Council of the Great City Schools that are, you know, there are lots of rubrics out there for suburban districts, but these really tune in to the needs of our urban, city centers in the United States.

and so many of the many districts have actually adopted this, nationwide.

and these rubrics, it's a continuum.

Right.

So we're working to set small goals for ourselves.

we're not going to get to the, the best category right away.

and at some point, I'm sure we'll be communicating all of this very clearly to our, our community members.

We have coaches who are working with us currently over the next two years.

And there's a entire schedule to get the community involved, and to educate, everyone, including our staff, on what that progress monitoring looks like and that that includes people at the building level, understanding what we're working towards and, monitoring how we're able to, to reach those smaller goals.

And one thing that a new superintendent is going to have to do is reconcile our current strategic plan, which is a noble and it's a good plan, but we need to reconcile that with the the new governance model for full implementation.

Yeah.

And if I can, I would just say your standard continuous improvement approach would be part of that rubric.

So you're talking about the PDSA cycle plan do study act.

You have the plan.

You study the plan, you do the plan or what have you.

But you make adjustments to that plan.

So that's that continuous improvement component to what Vice President Malloy was speaking about.

And that's the way you progress monitor.

Make sure that when you see if something's you have to of course, give it enough time to know if it's working.

but when you see that it's not, you have to be nimble enough to make the adjustments and then go back into another cycle.

And and it just continues.

listeners may be hearing this, they're going, wait a second.

We don't do progress monitoring already.

That's not something that like it's already going on on some levels.

but not at the level, Vice President Malloy speaking to.

So I think, you know, if you've watched the, Equity in Student Achievement Committee, I have been, during my tenure on the board, the chair for that.

And so one of the things I felt was important was bringing data to that, committee, even if the data wasn't pretty.

So that's a lot of the report you see in the community.

I think that the community deserves that level of transparency.

How are our children doing?

and so that is a component of progress monitoring.

there's reports that we have out and you can see the metrics.

but I want to also be careful around, siloing our students just to the test scores.

Absolutely.

I think that produces, engines, you know, they become like these widgets if you're only looking at them based on their numbers.

So how do you honor those test scores without forgetting the creativity that goes into actual classroom learning?

But, I mean, nobody thinks 3.8% proficient in math.

Eighth grade is acceptable.

Absolutely not.

And so much of that is because of our literacy rates.

our Ela scores are Ela scores are low as well.

you're not going to pass a math exam even if you have the requisite math skills.

If you can't read the question and understand what that question is asking.

And so many of our state tests are more like literacy tests these days.

I mean, I can speak to the social studies test that gets administered year after year, and it's no longer teaching rote memorization of facts.

It's, it's actually a literacy test and testing kids ability to, read through passages comprehension and comprehension.

Yeah.

Which is a good thing, I think.

Right.

But but I think part of what you're saying, Amy, is when you can look at math, you can look at all these other scores.

If we're not reading at a high level, everything else suffers.

Yes, absolutely.

Okay.

And I know the president has been working on this.

If we can get our babies reading, if we can get them reading and math the way they deserve to be, I will be so happy if those metrics just begin to move.

And again, there's no purple unicorn that can do it.

It's truly going to take a collective board, a collective community.

But if that would happen, I don't even I don't even know where to begin that.

That's it.

Can I add just one thing, too?

I mean, it's also learning that, you know, we we often say reading teachers only belong at certain grade levels, right?

Like that reading is a continual skill that is developed over time and not only do we need to make sure all of our kids are reading by third grade, but the reading instruction does not stop there.

Like it's got to continue year after year.

And, I have to learn as a social studies teacher how to create that environment for literacy within my own classroom.

And it is overwhelming for teachers.

Let me tell you, I am not a trained reading teacher and it scares me.

Like you wouldn't believe that I'm going to have to develop those skills.

But providing high quality professional development to all of our teachers is going to ensure that everyone becomes a reading teacher, and that continues throughout even their high school career.

Right before I get to more your phone calls and emails, which I'll do in one second.

One other point on this, you heard the president and the Vice president say yes, the current test scores not good enough.

But also don't be addicted to just test scores as the metric.

Absolutely.

So what are the how do you holistically look and say, well, when when we talk in one year?

And again, big structure problems don't get all fixed in a year.

Right.

But we're going to talk as we go in a year, in five years, in ten years, you're going to look at what kind of measures to say this is so different.

This is so much better.

Let me just jump in quickly, because in our new governance model, we learn that student, what a student outcome actually is.

And a student outcome is a measure of what students know or are able to do.

Right.

And we know that it's not just about tests, right?

We might implement or our superintend.

Rather, we'll implement strategies, like portfolio type learning.

Right.

other tracks for towards graduation.

but it is a, it has to be measurable in nature.

so yeah, a student outcome is a measure of what students know or are able to do.

And if we get better at tracking that, we're going to see our academic improvement happen.

Incremental improvement is what you'd want to ideally see.

And yeah, you know, so by next year, hopefully we can we can see things going up.

Percentage points over a period of time.

And if they're moving continuing to move in the right direction, then we know we're on to something.

And that's the objective is to get the incremental improvements.

Do you feel that way about graduation rates as well that that's an important metric or that's over?

I mean, how do you how do you see it in addition to graduation rates?

Like, of course, you want to see the graduation rates at a very high scale, but more importantly, you want to see that our children are graduating from high school already, right?

Since no point in graduating and you're not ready graduating, ready to take on the workforce, take on college, career, skilled trades, apprenticeships, those type of things.

And so we have to make sure they have the foundational skills to be prepared for this world.

Okay.

Let me get to some phone calls here.

Gene and parenting on the line with the president and vice president of the Rochester City School Board.

Hi, Gene.

Go ahead.

Okay.

Thank you.

I have I'm a teacher.

I've taught both in the city and the suburbs, and I tutor now in this city.

But in this discussion, I don't hear anything about class size.

And that is, I think the number one issue here, because I've done a lot of reading.

I experienced a lot.

If you have 12 students to a class, you can, see the increase.

The kids will come because it's more of a, a family.

And and you say, oh, well, you know, we can't afford that.

But if you have just 12, you don't have to have, the social worker, they are so involved.

Or the attendance teacher or the reading teacher or the math teacher, because the teacher with 12 students can work with them.

When I, have been observing or tutor, in a classroom, there are 24 students and maybe four are on grade level, and they're using the smartboard with 24.

The teacher wasn't even aware that 5 or 6 of them had their heads down sleeping.

And when I mentioned this to the, superintendent last year, he said, well, our biggest problem right now was getting teachers to apply.

And I said, if you had 12 teachers per, you know, 12 students, 12 students would have excellent teachers.

All right.

Let me just jump in.

Gene, I appreciate that phone call.

Thank you.

And I'm going to give both of our guests time to respond here.

Yeah.

100% in agreement with, smaller class sizes and but how do you get there?

And so I just had a conversation with a group of educators.

the other day.

I talk to educators regularly, actually, but, this was a very, pointed group, and it was it was great to hear what the experiences at that level, because, again, I feel like we sit in these seats and we have conversations, and it's important to talk to people who execute the work to really understand what that impact looks like.

and so I do agree with smaller class sizes, that it's much more manageable.

however, it's easier said.

We do have to structurally look at how we position the district to be able to accommodate that.

and but that is something that I'm very much interested in exploring.

And figuring out through the superintendent, what that could look like for our district.

Yeah.

And I wholeheartedly agree.

And to our caller, thank you.

So much for, serving our community and our students.

And I agree 100% that smaller class sizes, I mean, I, I look at my own classes, where I'm able to teach and the difference that is made, how many students you're in a suburban district, how many students?

I think my smallest class only has, nine students in it right now.

What about your biggest?

That's unusual.

largest class only has 21, and.

And I teach at the secondary level, so that's different.

Very different from elementary teaching.

But I will say, when you have the ability to work with a smaller group.

Yeah, you can employ the newer strategies that are coming out there.

And the strategies that you've learned in professional development are going to be more effective as well.

So I agree with you.

100%, Ken.

Is it a realistic goal for this district to set significantly smaller class sizes?

I think so, I think, yeah, again, you'd have to look at structural how we restructure some things by building spaces, money, buildings, finance, teachers, all of the things, all of the things.

Student enrollment.

You have to consider the distribution of students across school buildings.

But structurally, we could probably find something, we're going to try to get through as many as we can here.

Bill in Rochester, next on the phone.

Hello, Bill.

Go ahead.

Hi.

I was wondering why the the district in the state doesn't embrace charter schools more aggressively, given their, their outcomes being so much better, particularly the Success Academy in New York by, Eva moskowitz.

Thank you.

Can I jump in?

And so obviously charter schools offer a choice for our families.

I would say that for our listeners that it's important to look at, actually what the actual data is saying about the results from our schools.

I know that they vary from one school to another, and there are some, schools that whose results mirror the results in our districts.

so there are a lot of things to take into account there.

I don't think that we should assume that because it's a charter school that that better learning is taking place or better teaching is taking place.

So, I think we want to be careful in that.

However, I will always support, in our district, and I think that's something shared by many of our board members, the the parent choice aspect.

but we also have to understand the impact that that choice sometimes has on our school district as a whole, especially financially.

and as well, when we talk about our, students with disabilities, our special education students, who often come back to us from, from charters and then set us and then come back in time for a state exam, which, those results are going on are results, not the charter schools.

President Simmons.

generally speaking, what's your view on charter schools?

Yeah.

so again, I, to echo the sentiments expressed, I do believe in parent choice.

Parents want their children to be educated and educated.

Well, and so I would never stand between, you know, not, supporting parent choice.

but I do have to agree that all charter schools are not, necessarily working as well as as we would like to think.

There are some that have great models.

and then there are some that again, mirror, some of the concerns we already have as a district.

So, yeah, we have to look a little deeper into the data and I think, oh, I'm sorry.

No, go ahead again.

I mean, if we're, I, I'm feeling very optimistic because I think we have the ability to build a structure that is going to attract students, from different families.

And we can build it.

if you build it, they will get them right, like the people are going to be making that charter school choice if we have viable options here in the city.

All right.

and we go here two questions on literacy from online.

Well, Alex in Pittsford called in Alex.

Thank you.

I'm just going to squeeze this question.

And because we're running out of time, he wants to know what out of classroom support students are given regarding literacy.

And a separate question coming from our YouTube chat, which is that if we know that literacy is one of the major issues and problems, what is the specific plan to change that specifically?

Absolutely.

One of the first things we've done again, what gets measured, gets done.

We've made literacy a key board goal so that there's a level of accountability throughout the district to make sure that we focus on literacy, on the other piece, I would say is, as far as out of classroom instruction, we are trying to employ having instructional coaches, working with our students, working with our educators on, bringing literacy out.

I'm express, very excited about the upcoming budget and the upcoming years as far as identifying more creative options.

Literacy is not just something that falls in a book and and throw a test score.

It's something that has to live in the student's mind.

You have to create readers who love to read.

and I think that's done through Creative Outlet.

So I'm very excited about the opportunity to explore other avenues for learning outside of the classroom.

And also, I have to say, there needs to be we've got to, bring in community engagement.

We've got to, get our parents support around creating learners of literacy in our community.

And I think with that parent, with our collective parents at the table, we can do that.

Anything you want to add on literacy?

Well, I would also say that we need to make sure that we're including, you know, culturally responsive texts in what students are learning.

We need to learn to engage our students.

and that doesn't often happen through prescribed curriculum.

And so having that creativity and autonomy in the classroom to, to to do those types of things, we need, leadership that supports that.

All right.

Because we're running out of time.

We've got to be quick.

Your former colleague Willard Powell on the line next.

Hello, Willa.

Go ahead.

Oh.

Thank you.

my prayers are with both of the leaders that you have on.

I wanted to try to type two concepts together for your listeners.

We're talking about monitoring.

The district has always done monitoring and has always shared that information with the board going back decades.

But the important thing and what I think, Commissioner Malloy is trying to get at about the governance issues is the so what what happens after we, the board receives the data?

you know, the board should be should and many of them are asking the questions, what are you going to do about it?

And, and pin the the administration down on specific strategies, benchmarks.

and and that's how the governance model serves to improve student achievement.

Yeah.

Let me just jump in, Willow, because we're only done about 30s here.

Amy, you agree with that point?

Absolutely.

And nice to hear from you, Willa.

And thank you, as always for your wisdom.

Okay.

Is there going to be a so what will there be consequences when you go back and you do progress monitoring and you're not where you want to be, is it going to change from the way it's always operated here?

There has to be a so what this board has existed this district for years.

We are we're looking at the outcomes of previous, falling short of our students.

And we have to have the what's so what what are we going to do next.

Well, thank you for that phone call listeners, a boy, especially in the second half hour, a deluge of emails.

And that just means people care very much about what you're doing.

And I hope you'll check in regularly.

It is an open invitation for both of you and your colleagues on the board to come on together, to come on here, and to keep engaging with us.

We know that we're maybe a month away or so from a superintendent announcement.

We'll be looking for that.

Thank you for making the time for engaging with your community.

We appreciate you.

Thank you so much.

Camille Simmons is the president of the Rochester City School Board.

Amy Malloy is the vice president of the Rochester City School Board.

We've got more connections coming up in a moment.

Oh.

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