From WXXI news, this is connections.

I'm Evan Dawson.

Our connection this hour was made in December 2021 with a Korean War veteran named Marvin Daniel.

Daniel was a rifleman in the U.S. Army who earned two Bronze Stars.

He rarely spoke about his time in the war, and as reported in a story by the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs, he struggled with the mental and emotional fallout of his service.

One way he dealt with that trauma was by hitting things with sticks, he said.

In 2021, Daniel was part of a music program with Salem VA Health Care System, and he worked with a music therapist.

The program uses music to help patients navigate mental health challenges, including PTSD.

When Daniel's therapist began playing her piano and was joined by her intern on guitar, Daniel picked up some drumsticks and he says these he didn't miss a beat on his electronic drum kit.

He ended the song with the cymbal crash and he said the music lifted his spirits.

Experts say music therapy can help people like Marvin Daniel cope with anxiety, depression, even PTSD.

A program in Rochester is offering opportunities for local veterans to access opportunities to music.

It's called music for Veterans Rochester, and it's part of a broader association of the music for veterans program.

The head of a national program has ties to Rochester.

He's in town this week.

We're going to talk to him coming up about the local chapter and these efforts.

And this hour, we're talking about the power of using this kind of art to help veterans deal with anxiety or depression or PTSD.

Let me welcome to the program.

Laura Helps is executive director of the Veterans Outreach Center, a U.S. Army veteran and author.

Welcome back to the program to you.

Thank you very much.

Next, Laura, is Jimmy Highsmith, who?

You weren't even on my sheet.

Jimmy walked in.

I said, Jimmy, I am the vice president of the board of this wonderful organization.

It's great to see you back here.

Thank you for being here.

Welcome across the table to Mike Doolan.

Mike is president of music for veterans, Rochester, a U.S. Navy veteran trumpeter in the New Horizons band.

Welcome.

Thank you for being here.

Thank you for inviting me.

And Judy Rose, executive director of music for veterans, Rochester based clarinetist in the New Horizons band.

Hello, Judy.

Thank you for being with us this morning.

Thank you so much for this opportunity.

In just a moment here.

Judy is going to be kind enough.

We're going to talk to Judy for a bit, and then we're going to bring in Doctor Roy Ernst as well here.

And we're going to swap out seats because we've got a lot of people to talk to this hour.

But let me just start with this, Judy.

I mean, you're the executive director of music for veterans, Rochester.

How has this come together?

And tell me a little bit about the impact of this program.

Well, I have a nephew who was in the Vietnam War.

I had a nephew, he passed from Agent Orange.

He was a marine, and a helicopter rescue plan.

And, I've always been very moved by what the veterans have gone through to keep us safe in our country and always been very patriotic.

I mentioned the other day that when I was a little girl and the news would come on at 6:00 in the morning, I would be sound asleep, but I would stand up in bed until the national anthem was over, and then I'd lay down and go back to sleep.

So my story is that right.

Earnest, a dear friend who started New horizons in Rochester, has created a wonderful last 27 years of my life because he's allowed me to use music.

My bass clarinet is my best friend, and, I'm just so pleased to be able to be a part of the making this happen in Rochester.

it's so necessary.

And, we are going to be launching on Saturday morning at that space at Margaret Place, which was given us compliments of War II Corporation.

And everything is falling into place, and I really feel happy.

Well, we appreciate you being here and helping pull this together.

and, Judy and Roy are going to switch seats, and we're going to get Roy's story as well here.

so Roy Ernst is going to join us, the founder of music for Veterans National Association and professor emeritus of music education at the Eastman School of Music.

You know, Laura helps.

We've talked on this program about the need for a wide range of services for veterans in the community.

Not everything works for everybody.

Every person's an individual.

But this kind of a program.

What's the potential you see with this?

Well, I think music really affects people in in pretty profound ways.

And I can say that I think as a former military musician myself, I played the saxophone in the Army band and, you know, you see things like, even with, with people who have dementia, where, where music is the one thing that they can still remember and they can still connect with.

And, a lot of times with children that have developmental disabilities or other issues, you know, some children actually learn to speak through music before they actually can speak in other ways.

And so, I don't think it's any different for people who have suffered with trauma, and especially in our military veterans, many of them have had trauma due to their military service.

And, and, you know, it's not always comfortable, especially for people who may have spent a career being told to be tough, suck it up, drive on.

You know, they're not always the people that are going to want to go through some type of talk therapy.

On the other hand, you know, dealing with the trauma that they have through music that can be, very effective.

I mean, it's not all as on the nose as the story of Marvin Daniels, who said he literally was hitting things with sticks and someone gave him a drum kit and thought, this is perfect, right?

but it can really, really make a difference.

And in general, right now, Laura, how do you see the support for veterans in this country, in this community?

What's the what's the state of things right now?

I've always felt very proud to live in Rochester and to know that Rochester is a community that I feel like wholeheartedly embraces our military veterans.

You know, the Veterans Outreach Center is a great example of that.

We were founded 52 years ago by returning Vietnam veterans.

And, although initially started as a project that the federal government funded, when the funding ran out after a few years, those same Vietnam veterans refused to let the the idea of the outreach center go, and they kept it going.

and many times over the next couple of decades, with or without funding, you know, they would go from being paid staff to volunteers and back again.

So they were so committed.

And that's our legacy at the Veterans Outreach Center.

But we have so many other wonderful organizations in Rochester that also work collaboratively to support our veterans.

I think it, you know, it varies, across the country.

And right now, certainly there are folks who are concerned with, whether or not there will be, as much support for veterans, through the VA as there have been in years past.

of course we have not, you know, we haven't seen that.

come to fruition yet in a, in a bad way.

So, you know, I think that we're just, we're going to continue to do what we love doing here in Rochester, which is serving our vets.

Does that mean we're watching federal budgets, things like that?

Yeah, I think so.

I mean, you know, we, with the VA, being, there are there are rumors that they're going to be losing a number of personnel.

And that would be obviously very concerning to, anybody who is a veteran or who has a veteran in their family that relies on the VA for health care and benefits.

like I said, so far, I don't think those cuts have come to pass.

And so we're just going to I think really hold on to, yeah.

The hope that that won't happen.

Well, let me let me turn to Doctor Ernst.

Roy Ernst is with us, founder of music for veterans National Association and a professor emeritus of music education at the Eastman School of Music.

The first band organized by Roy was in San Antonio.

That's right.

And, associated with University of Texas second band was in Columbus, Georgia.

Columbia is a Columbia, South Carolina, Columbia, South Carolina.

Okay.

So I mean, I've got I've got a long list here.

So you guys have tentacles all across this country with this.

How does this happen?

Well, I started the New Horizons program in 1991, and a reason for that was that I knew that about 20% of high school students were involved in their school music programs.

So that indicated to me that about 80% of adults need beginning instruction.

So it's all about providing the beginning instruction that most people need if they're going to be involved in a band and orchestra.

And for the veterans, the same percentages will hold true.

So our program for veterans here will be for people with no musical experience at all.

And, we will show them how to read music, which is not as hard as most people think it is, and show them how to play an instrument and, they will be in a band, or they might be playing in a guitar group.

And so, and I just want to comment on the fact that, music connects people to life.

It connects.

And four ways it connects people to the past, the present, the future, and other people.

So, you know, connecting to the past.

It could be remembering a song that means something special to you.

could be the wedding march or graduation.

Pomp and circumstance to the present.

We're working on things right now.

We're playing in a group where we're making good music with that group.

It connects to the future because now I've got things to think about in the future.

we've got a concert coming up.

We're playing gigs.

We're trying to learn how to play, harder music.

And so, I'm working all on all of these things for the future.

But then most of all, it connects us to other people.

And loneliness is such an important factor for many, many people.

Not just veterans, but for veterans who are feeling lonely if they've had, really traumatic experiences in the military, that can be fatal.

And so, the people who participate in this veterans program are going to have new friends.

They're going to have friends who are much like their military friendships when they were in active service.

And they're going to feel that they belong to something.

So think of how healthy all of these factors are and how they're going to help our veterans.

Yeah, right.

I got to tell you, when you said the four Ways Music Connects us, it makes a difference is past, present, future and to other people.

I thought the future was kind of hokey baloney.

And then I heard you describe it, and I thought, you know, I've had conversations with family members who are veterans who will tell you how important it is to have something to look forward to.

Yes, to have something on the calendar that is still to come that inspires you, that gets you up, that gets you moving, that gets you thinking.

And our program is open to family members, immediate family members of veterans because we know how much they sacrificed also.

And just yesterday I was talking to someone, whose dad came home a double amputee.

You can imagine that there was some suffering.

We're talking about people whose mom or dad were maybe in combat someplace in the world.

And every day those family members are hoping that they're still alive.

And so we want to support the family members also.

Well, if you want to get involved here, coming up here, there's a first of all, it's music for vets, scum, 70 veterans or so in Rochester have already registered.

From what I'm reading here.

Right.

That sounds right to you.

and music for vets is going to officially launch May 24th at 10 a.m.. What is it?

What is that?

Sunday.

Saturday?

It's this Saturday.

I don't know the days of the week anymore.

Here we go.

Saturday, 10 a.m.. and the folks at Wilmer, right, have created a space the markets, marketplace, vet space at the old marketplace mall, I think.

Is that right?

Yes.

And it's a very nice space.

And of course, Marketplace Mall is a very central location.

So we're very grateful to Wilmer, right, for their contribution.

All right.

So music for Bet.com 10 a.m. Saturday at that marketplace vet space, available for veterans and immediate family members.

And just, Roy, to clarify here, Charles, who is a veteran, sent us a note saying, are there any opportunities for lessons for those who know how to play an instrument?

But RNA stuck in a rut type place with their abilities?

Absolutely.

We're going to have classes for people who already play, and that band might be somewhat advanced.

And so we're going to have two levels.

We're going to have beginners for people who, our absolute beginners at music and we're going to have, classes.

We're going to have a band for people who already play.

And so, that band will start out at a pretty good level.

All right.

Music for vets.com.

Mike Dolan, president of music for veterans Rochester, a US Navy veteran trumpeter in the New Horizons band.

how important is this effort?

What do you make of all of this, coming together here in Rochester?

Mike?

well, I'm pretty enthusiastic about this.

I'm in three of, the the groups that really started many years ago, the New Horizons group.

So I'm in three of those, and apparently that's not enough.

So on.

So I'm going to go, and I'm a vet, so I've seen the, the, the ability of music to join people together, complete strangers, who suddenly have something really important and fun in common.

And that's music.

But over and above that, veterans have that intrinsic, marrying ability right away.

I saw that firsthand a couple of years ago in the honor flight, situation where they round up, you know, 60 or 80 complete strangers.

And it was like we were all back in boot camp together, and it didn't take more than a couple of minutes.

and I see the same thing happening in music.

It happens in, in, New Horizons groups.

Again.

We're surrounded by complete strangers and.

But what we have in common is the music.

and that's important.

And it joins us as, as human beings.

and, it really works.

And you're exposed to a lot of people that you would never otherwise be exposed to with a lot of different viewpoints.

There's a lot of socialization involved, and I expect the same thing to happen with the veterans group, only probably a more intense experience, because we not only will have the music in common, we have that military experience in common, which is, I understand, still pretty rare.

I think maybe somewhere between 5 and 10% of the population of the country has had any sort of military experience, and that means we're sort of a select group going right in.

And then to be interested in music.

On top of that, I think is going to make a real difference for the vets.

and I'm, I should also mention, a little bit of geography here.

if you come to our Saturday meeting and if you're a vet or a family member of a vet, and I encourage you to come, even if you haven't registered, come in the East Door to Marketplace Mall, walk straight ahead past the U of our facility, and we're about 2 or 3 doors down on the left, and you'll see flags and all kinds of invitation, invitation type.

postings.

you won't have a problem finding us.

We're going to have coffee and and munchies and, water.

And, we encourage you, if you're a vet and you've got any interest at all in music, please show up at 10 a.m. at Marketplace on Saturday, and we will welcome you.

And if you don't have any experience in music, you don't know a whole note from a whole rest.

That's fine.

We'll teach you.

And a lot of us more experienced musicians are prepared to be mentors.

to the people who, who join, who don't have any musical experience.

I, for one, am looking forward to that.

I should also mention we're recruiting people to donate used instruments that they might have left over from their high school or college days.

if the instrument works and it's just sitting in a closet gathering dust, you can make a real impression on a vet by donating it to us, and you can bring it to us on Saturday, we'll take it right on the spot.

We'll give you a receipt.

The national organization is a 501 C3.

You can claim it as a charitable or, charitable donation.

so I think I'm out of time here.

All right.

That's a good that's a good primer there, Mike.

And, Laura, Mike says 5 to 10% of the population has had military experience.

Is that about right?

Yeah, I think it's right about 10%.

And, you know, one of the things that we know is that the veteran population is a little bit higher than, what's actively serving in uniform right now.

Our active service members only represent less than 1% of the population.

So I think we're going to continue to see that, that figure drop, over, you know, the next couple of decades, Jimmy Highsmith.

How did you get involved here?

Well, I'm honored to be the vice president of this organization.

Judy contacted me, back in January.

I'm a tenured Air Force veteran, actually left to go to Air Force Band, did not like the band and went to operational Air Force.

But while I was in the Air Force, I did some USO towards and played music.

So I'm a cat who played music and never was, always had a job, I never starved, so I'm blessed for that.

But, I saw firsthand the effect music had on people, other vets going to bases and morale.

It gave these veterans to hear some good music was amazing.

And then as a recording artist for the last 25 years, I've been to four kind of fun music and just the effect it has on people.

It's the quintessential language that connects people like food does.

They come together no matter what, no matter what your background is.

Complexion is your religion is you come together through music.

So when Judy asked me about this program, you know, I'm a sucker for anything.

Helps people.

I couldn't say no.

So I'm in it, Mike.

Like Mike and like I like and like I write to serve the community.

I'm a vet who had a great military career.

Had I not got a record deal with retired military, I had an awesome military career.

I'm one of the lucky ones who did not suffer PTSD.

I had a great time in the air Force, and a lot of folks can say that they had a tough time in the military.

So to be able to help some other veterans through the tough times, I want to do that.

So yeah, being part of this is an amazing experience and I make time for it.

You know, I'm a busy guy, but this is important to me.

So I'm here.

I mean, I, I imagine a lot of listeners know Jimmy is one of the supremely talented musicians in Rochester.

We Rochester is proud to have Jimmy you to come to claim on this listen is true.

What you see Jimmy live, you'll know.

and you know, to your point, Jimmy, that your experience was very positive.

Yes.

It was, you know, there's, there's a whole range of experiences.

No one at this table needs me to say that.

But I think about my dad.

My dad's 80, and, you know, he didn't listen to this program, so I can talk about my dad is still in Cleveland.

he's really struggled in recent years.

And, it's become much more, you know, turn much more inward.

And, but what gets him moving throughout the week in his retirement, is he volunteers and he rocks babies at the NICU and in Cleveland at the Cleveland Clinic.

And he loves that.

He loves that experience because he feels needed.

You know, like my mom spent years gone.

I just want to wake up and have no one need me.

And my dad said, I don't know what to do with myself.

I wake up and I feel like no one needs me.

And I would say that I was talking about, I think I Mike yesterday or Wednesday, I forget my day is a blur sometimes, but that's what I miss about being in military.

I miss that camaraderie.

unless you served, you would never understand that.

Yeah.

You know, you never get that when you in the military, it doesn't matter what your complexion is, what it does.

Yes.

That's a that's a vet.

It's a teammate.

They're going to get the mission done no matter what you can count on, no matter what.

And when you get back to the civilian world, that sense of belonging, that sense of camaraderie of team, it's just not there.

Sometimes it just isn't.

You don't.

People on have the same military being?

We have the same integrity.

We have the same work ethic.

We have the veterans.

So a lot of these vets are looking to be part of something.

The last because they missed that camaraderie.

And this is why it's important to me to help these other vets out and say, hey, I'm here, brother, I'm here sister.

Well, I want to Cleveland chapter here.

So my father, is there a Cleveland chapter?

No, but I we are planning to have chapters all over the country and our, our process right now is creating some model programs.

The first two programs are off to a great start.

The program in San Antonio has more than 80 people in the band now, and they play all over.

The one in Colombia performs all over for special events, and they're they're loving it.

When they play in the community.

They feel the love of the community, you know?

And that's so, so good for them.

But we will be doing some research.

And the ultimate goal is to show the Veterans Administration how effective this can be and to then get a suicide prevention grant, which they now offer.

And, and use that to go to many other, cities around the country, including Cleveland.

Well, if you're a that's a that's good to know and maybe there will be a future Cleveland chapter.

on behalf of my father who could only sing, I don't know if an instrument is possible.

When he was in high school, he was in a band called the J4 in Jamestown, New York, and they sang there.

They wanted to sing their way to Europe.

You got room for any singing voices here?

Is that an instrument?

We surely will be having a choir group.

We are starting with a, a band, beginning band, advanced band and guitar lessons.

And we know that a lot of people like to sing will be adding that.

And we'll be adding keyboard instruction also.

But, we're focusing on two areas to start.

Yeah.

Totally understandable.

And you know, Laura, I am really proud of my dad.

Service.

he doesn't talk much about it.

He's in that category.

I got a neighbor exactly like this in this category who spent decades not talking much about it.

And that's certainly a personal choice.

but I'm really proud of him.

I'm proud of the decisions that he made at a time when not everyone associated with him, even his own family, were making that same decision.

how common is that?

Do you find that?

And I, I don't know if if I'm asking if there's an approach that would open people up more.

Do you think it's healthy to be open about experience, or do you find that's really personal?

Well, I think, you know, part of it for a lot of vets is that they don't want to burden their family members and their loved ones with things that they, feel that that person may either not be able to fully understand or that may cause them to worry about the vet further.

and I think, you know, when it comes to is it helpful to open up or is it is it better to keep it inside?

I mean, I definitely don't I don't think it's better to keep it inside, but I think a lot of vets feel that if they are going to open up about their experiences, it needs to be with somebody who can understand it.

And I and I think we see there, you know, across a lot of different, traumatic related issues.

You know, you've got, great organization called camp, good Days and special times.

I'm sure anybody watching this is familiar with them.

and, and the kids that go to camp go days, they're all bonded over their shared illness of cancer.

You know, you have, a lot of, different groups where they, they bond over whatever their, particular, like, experiences.

And it doesn't always have to be traumatic.

But in the military, you know, how many other people can say that they've had an experience that's anything even close to the military?

And and like Jimmy said, you know, that that level of camaraderie, that that feeling of family that you have, it's just not, you know, maybe the next closest thing would be like the law enforcement family or, you know, the firefighting family.

But the military is really unique.

And so for somebody to have had, experiences in the military and then to try to explain that to to another person who hasn't served, they're usually pretty reluctant to do that because it's it's not something they feel that, is going to be either well received or understood.

Is there, is there therapy, talk therapy that's targeted with people who may, to your point, have an understanding of experiences who might be sort of better listeners or, have more understanding?

There definitely is.

You know, and we see that with the VA and with the, vet centers, the vet center for anybody that's not familiar, is actually an offshoot of the VA. And it was created after Vietnam because, the Vietnam vets, many of them were not welcomed at the VA.

They weren't welcomed at American Legion's and VFW post, which was just a tragic part of our history.

But these vet centers were created because the government knew these vets need somewhere to go, and they've got to get some help.

And so they they kind of open them up in like shopping centers across the country.

and they are funded by the VA, but they're very separate.

So they're, a veteran who goes to the vet center.

Their records are not shared with the VA as a whole.

and so those are, really earmarked for combat vets.

that's who suffer with military sexual trauma.

Gold star families.

but for other veterans who maybe don't have the combat experience and can't use a vet center, there are a lot of other, organizations out there that really work, specifically to help vets, Veterans Outreach Center.

You know, we're we're one and not to get too far off track, but we're we're piloting an app right now that's going to connect vets.

online basically.

And so I think that there are there's a lot of value to that peer support.

You know, I wouldn't necessarily call it therapy, but peer support, you know, connection that vets have with other vets come back and talk to us about that some time.

I will, let me grab a phone call.

We're talking about this remarkable program music for veterans.

Roy Ernst is the founder of music for veterans, Mike Doyle and the president, Jimmy Highsmith, the vice president.

Judy Rose has been with us, executive director.

Laura Hilts is executive director of Veterans Outreach Center.

And let me get Linda in Naples on the phone.

Hi, Linda.

Go ahead.

Hi, Evan.

Thanks so much for taking my call.

I wanted to share a story about the miracle of music.

my partner, who was 72, had a traumatic brain infection a year and a half ago.

she had been, a master's in piano performance.

she got totally paralyzed on the right side and has incredible memory problems.

But, even in the nursing home, before she came home, we sat her down at the piano and muscle memory had her playing every scale, major and minor, and all the related chords.

she couldn't remember where she was or what day it was, but she could play the piano.

the other thing that was so amazing about it is, when she still recovering physically as well as mentally from that trauma, but, she'll stand up and try to walk, and she looks like a 95 year old.

And if I put on music or even sing or whistle and ask her to dance to the other room, she looks like a totally different person.

And so I just really wanted to share that, our personal, experience with how magical music can be and recovering from all kinds of things.

Linda, good luck to you.

Thank you for sharing that story.

there's something really remarkable about the effects that that can have.

And, you know, Roy, that's not the first story like that that you've heard.

Oh absolutely not.

No.

There's so many instances of how music has helped people come back and how some people who don't respond to hardly anything else will respond to music.

And so, I really appreciate that story from Linda.

Yeah.

There's, the music goes deep into our, our consciousness and then our unconsciousness.

Producer Meghan Markle, what's the name of the Reply All episode?

My favorite podcast of all time about the missing hit, I think is what it was called.

It's the greatest podcast single episode I've ever heard, and it's about someone who is, has a song in their head from years ago and they know it's real, but they can't find it.

the case in the missing hit.

They can't find it.

They can't find it on YouTube.

They can't find it anywhere.

And they literally get musicians together to recreate it as this person is directing to.

And I don't want to ruin it for you.

I just want you to know that your memory.

It's amazing what music gets in your minds.

I mean, how deep it goes.

And, you know, Mike Dylan, I mean, do you have songs from your childhood that still pop?

And you can probably still go right along to.

Oh, yeah, I think that's probably true of everybody.

I mean, it's a powerful thing.

and how how do you expect this particular program to be affecting veterans who are going to be actually performing that music?

Mike.

Well, I think it depends on the music we pick, but, music in general is going to bring a lot of smiles to people's faces.

I still remember, part of the part of the New Horizons program that that really started years ago is to visit grammar schools and to play with the little kids in fourth and fifth grade and who are obviously not very talented at that point, but they get such joy out of, you know, when they when they hit the right note, they just light up.

And I see that in adults too, on a, you know, on a on a personal level, my wife just started playing clarinet about a year and a half ago, and she's 71, and she didn't even know which end of the clarinet vibrated when, you know, and no offense to her.

and now it's a year and a half later, she's in a band at New Horizons, and, and and I watch her practice.

And when she gets it, which is more and more often, she just lights up.

And I see that, you know, more and more with, with musicians, even the talented musicians that I'm with in the four bands that I'm already in.

When we when we come across a passage that looks like it's just going to be really grumpy, and we nail it in, might take 3 or 4 times, I might take ten times.

But when we nail it, we and other musicians in the room here are shaking their heads up and down.

You know, they know exactly what I'm talking about.

Jimmy Highsmith, what is one song from your childhood that you haven't heard in years?

But you know that if it comes on, you're going to you're going to get right back in the groove.

You're going to laugh.

Figure eight schoolhouse Rock school.

I don't know, figure skater.

Yeah, I can't sing that that that at I can't do I'm not.

But amazing about music is there are just 12 notes.

Just 12 notes.

And those 12 notes, you make the entire world.

That's what I find amazing about music.

12 notes.

And that reminds me of seeing a poster for New Horizons band, out in Montana.

And the poster said only 12 notes.

How hard can it be?

That's the end of oversimplifies things a little.

Jimmy.

Hi.

I'm just saying, I mean, like an I've been blessed to play in so many venues around this world.

And I got to Russia.

I learned that for that was it.

But Middle Eastern, middle C, we jammed, you know what I mean?

it is the quintessential language.

And it would unite people just, like, fully like people.

So this is going to be a lot of fun.

And again, you know, an opportunity to connect some vet who, you know, with anxiety, depression, whatever, a safe place with income, just free have a good time and remind you.

Imagine when you go on a military base and go to actually be X or that class H, class six or whatever, just that feeling of being around other vets.

It's a wonderful feeling for me and I think about other vets as well, and that's what we want to try to create here with this band is a safe, fun place for vets.

I want to read a little bit from the department, the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs, the research into music therapy and quoting a music therapist who said, music therapy works, with coping skills for anxiety and depression through mood modulation, stress reduction, relaxation, meaningful social interaction, and decreasing isolation.

that's according to music therapist with the US Department of Veterans Affairs.

And during their sessions, patients often learn about the psychology of music to help them understand their unique and individual responses to music stimuli.

Therapist went on to say, some people experience triggers in response to music.

Perhaps a genre of music was used a lot during their military or combat experiences, so we work on teaching them how they personally respond to music, what components of the music they respond to, and how they can create their own music compilations for decreasing anxiety and increasing the relaxation response.

End quote.

So music therapy, very, very powerful, probably for all of us.

but maybe especially so for veterans who are dealing with stress, anxiety, sometimes PTSD.

I'm late for our only break.

We're going to come back and we're going to close the last 20 minutes here, making sure you're all up to date on how you can get involved and the mission of this program, music for vets.com is the website.

And we're glad to be joined this hour by Doctor Roy Ernst.

Roy is the founder of music for Veterans National Association, a professor emeritus of music music education at the Eastman School of Music, and the president and vice president of music for veterans Rochester.

Our here, Mike Doolin, Jimmy Highsmith, Laura Helps is here, executive director of the Veterans Outreach Center.

We're coming right back on connections.

I'm Evan Dawson Friday and the next connections.

My colleague Noel Evans host the program this week.

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This is connections I'm Evan Dawson.

Important note if you attend on Saturday at Marketplace Mall.

Roy was pointing out this is an informational session, so, you know, you don't have to expect to be jamming all day there.

Learn more about what the program will be, and this is a chance to ask any of questions that you have.

And, we will be sure we give you a good idea of what you can expect if you join the program.

And, we will we'll ask.

We'll answer any of your questions.

Okay.

So, that's 10 a.m., right?

Saturday at Marketplace Mall.

I call it Marketplace Mall.

I'm not sure what they called anymore, but Wilmer Arts created this lovely space for you all there.

We have a beautiful space there.

And the sign still says Marketplace Mall.

And that's what I call, so that's 10 a.m. on Saturdays, and then it's going to be Saturday mornings.

For those who get involved in the future, the program will be offered on Saturday mornings.

All right.

Judy Rose is the executive director of music for veterans.

Rochester, you've been listening along.

What have we missed here, Judy?

Well, I just like to say one of the things that motivated me was when my sister was, in her last in her final years, she shared with me how her son, Jean Miles, suffered from nightmares for years.

And and she was it's almost like my sister was ashamed to tell me that he had nightmares all those years, and she didn't tell me until she was 1998.

And I just felt very emotional when I just thought about that.

But that's what's been motivating me for this, this commission.

And also Roy motivated me because he said, we're on the third 30th anniversary of New Horizons.

He wanted to do something for the vets.

And so I said, I want to do something for the vets to.

So it's all going to start on Saturday morning.

You're doing something wonderful.

So I don't know if Judy can say this, but, Judy and Bill Rose very a very large contribution to start the very first band for veterans in San Antonio.

And without that contribution, I'm not sure we would have gotten started.

So thank you to Judy and Bill Rose and Judy.

I mean, you know, maybe at the root of why you didn't know that for all those years is like we've been talking about.

It is very difficult for for people to relate their experiences or to even share how they're suffering.

Now, I think my sister was almost embarrassed because, her son was having nightmares and she didn't want everyone to know, you know, he had a lot of issues for most of his life.

And again, Agent Orange took him, and he and I would hope that no one feel embarrassed.

Although, Laura, again, this is an important moment to ask you to kind of share some thoughts with the audience.

For anybody who is maybe currently struggling, struggling to either confront what they're dealing with, a family member, or feeling embarrassed about any of that, what would you want them to know?

Boy, you know, just before coming on your show today, I was actually, in a conversation with one of our vets and, he recently relapsed.

he struggles with addiction and, and I was just I was so glad that he came to the Veterans Outreach Center that he.

He knew it was a safe place to look for some help, but he just kept saying, I'm sorry.

And I and I kept telling him, you don't have to be sorry for anything.

There's nothing to be sorry for.

and I think so many veterans, there's a sense of, you know, they're proud of their service.

And yet at the same time, they're ashamed when they feel like they can't manage, you know, those those, difficult experiences after service.

and there are so many complexities to all of this, you know, it's it's not just post-traumatic stress disorder, although that's huge.

There's moral injury.

you know, when, when people are, in service and they are, in a situation where they have to do something that really kind of violates maybe the moral code they always grew up with.

And in that moment and in that setting, it's the right thing to do, and it's the only thing to do.

But then when they're no longer part of that setting, you know, a combat setting where you have to possibly fire your weapon when they're not part of that anymore, and they're back home and they're not around other vets and other people that had to go through that.

They it really it damages their spirit.

It damages their, you know, everything inside of them.

And so, the only thing that, you know, we try to tell any of the vets that come to Veterans Outreach Center is that, you know, you you are your loved.

You are welcome here.

There is nothing to feel, shame for or embarrassment for.

and shame lives in the dark.

You know, the more we don't talk about these things, the more that the, issues grow in the in.

They become something so much bigger than than what they are.

But when we can actually realize that we're not alone.

Many others have gone through these experiences and, you know, suffered along with us.

I think that's so powerful.

You know, I wanted to mention to, you know, to Judy about her, her nephew with the nightmares.

Here's a story about a, therapist years ago who, said to his his client, who was a Vietnam veteran, he said, and when were you in Vietnam?

And the veteran responded to him and said last night.

And, you know, this was probably 30 years after service and that and that's that's the reality for many of our service members is that that stuff just doesn't it doesn't leave you.

the, the thing I think that we can feel a lot of pride in our service members about, too, though, is that many of those people were some of our most incredible war fighters and some of our just, you know, warriors that that were heroes in war.

and so coming home and, and trying to reset, you know, the mindset in and deal with not only the memories and the trauma and maybe the moral injury, but then, you know, the hyper vigilance and all those other things that go along with it.

That's not easy, because that was exactly the the skill that you had that made you so good.

And wore, you know, so it's, there's there should be no shame in reaching out and asking for some help.

Judy.

I mean, it's probably sounds trite, but, I hope that you find some comfort in your family, find some comfort in knowing that there's no suffering anymore.

And the contributions to this country in in the active service was so powerful, actually.

And, this has been such therapy for me to be able to do this for the vets in memory of mainly my sister.

You know, I have my many family members who were vets, but it was Dean who gave all and last.

He was a trumpet player in high school and he came back and you know how the Vietnam vets were, were treated.

And even his family didn't understand what he was going through.

But the fact that we're here today and we're about to help millions of that's eventually with RA.

His idea is so heartwarming.

And I just want before I leave, I want to just just say, if anyone goes to a parade or a concert anywhere.

And within the sound of the this broadcast, please bring instruments and let us know that you have them, and we'll make sure they get to the storage area that what I call that space and marketplace.

There will be flags there, compliments of the Veteran Outreach Center.

And it used to be the gap.

If you remember marketplace something if you're the gap, store is or will be located and we have plenty of storage for instruments and I don't think Saturday mornings or Saturdays will be enough, I think we're going to have a great touring turnout of for this program, and it's just given me so much peace and joy.

Well, you deserve to feel that peace and joy.

What instruments do you need most, by the way?

Jimmy Roy, what do you need?

Well, we're really not sure of that.

And that's one of the things we're going to find out at the meeting.

Of course, you know, there are always lots of people who want to play saxophone or that, you know, they they think, I know you can't go wrong with saxophone.

We're going to need to version trombones and baritones and French horns.

And we're talking a lot about people who are suffering.

But I want to say something for the vets who are not suffering, who are leading a very good life.

we want you in this program also, because your presence will help everybody, in the program.

And, so this is this is for vets with all kinds of experiences.

Yeah.

And, you know, Laura, sometimes I think, we kind of compartmentalize it into two categories.

The veterans who had the experience of someone like Jimmy, who loved his service, loves his life.

Now, you know, misses the service, maybe, but doesn't have PTSD.

And those who are really struggling either with, different mental health issues.

We all know the the rate of suicide is way too high, and it's a sort of a national tragedy.

but have you seen through the work, at Outreach Center and through the various agencies, the stories of people who have been struggling but really are doing are doing much better, are getting the help that they need.

Oh, definitely.

I mean, we see that all the time.

I, you know, and I think that's probably one of the reasons why, I love my work so much is, is the reward that you see when somebody whether it's a small achievement, a big achievement, you know, it's it's incredible.

you know, there are there are leaders right here in our community that have, served in the military who have struggled and who have come back, with a little bit of support, a little bit of help and they've come back so much stronger.

And I think, you know, one of the things that's really special about people who have served in the military, is that they they've demonstrated their willingness to be part of a team, part of a, you know, something so much bigger than themselves and having that sense of purpose.

And, as sacrifice and all of those things.

And so it's there, you know, and it just sometimes it gets a little bit covered up when they're trying to work through challenges, when they get home, if that's the case for them.

But it's it's still there and they can still, you know, reclaim that part of their life that, you know, maybe was really, powerful and, and, you know, a good part of their life.

I just hope anybody feeling isolation finds what they need, whether it's going to the VOC, whether that is joining Saturday mornings and getting involved with music.

And before we wrap here, I'll start with you, Jimmy, for people who are like, maybe, but, you know, I'm not a great musician.

I don't really know an instrument or I feel too old to learn a new instrument.

What would you tell them?

I would say, come on, a quick story.

My dad, who was a Vietnam vet, and he died in 2018 from the side effects of aging on his.

Well, he started playing organ after I started playing saxophone.

He was in his 40s and just started playing with Frank Costello and playing music helped him therapeutically with his Vietnam trauma.

So I would like anybody, whether you can play like Mozart, I play like Charlie Brown.

Come on down and out with us.

Any veteran you know, any veteran.

Does it matter if you were a combat vet or you pushed the pencil like I did in the command post?

You're welcome.

You're definitely welcome.

Please come through and be part of this wonderful, wonderful, wonderful experience.

Judy.

Never too old to learn a new instrument.

Well, let me tell you, I took 47 years between graduating from John Marshall High School in 1953, and I heard about Roy's program and, 47 years without playing a clarinet.

I did not have my own, and I now have been a member of New Horizons for 27.

And it was when I picked up that instrument, it was just like, and I never forgot where my fingers should be on that clarinet.

So never too old, never too late, never too late there.

Roy, final notes from you.

Well, when.

When I was in college.

Right.

Springs visiting a New Horizons band there I met a woman 90 years old who is taking up the clarinet at the age of nine.

Taking it up?

Yeah, and that's the band.

Truly.

You are never too old to learn.

And so, you will be able to do music at some level that will bring you a whole lot of satisfaction.

And I just want to comment on my fantasy life a little bit here.

my fantasy life is pretty great.

And I see in the future these bands coming together to do things like major parades, like maybe an inauguration parade, the roast of Rose Bowl Parade.

who's going to say no to this big band of vets?

And it's going to be performing in major situations.

So there's going to be a pretty exciting future ahead.

Well, if you want to get involved or you know someone who's a vet, direct family member of a veteran who could benefit from this, the website is music for vets.com, and their big informational meeting is this Saturday at 10 a.m. at Marketplace Mall and the Old Gap.

As Judy said, they would love to see you there.

and go ahead, Judy, you got to be quick.

And the local website is Rock vets.org Rock vets.org and donations can be sent at by mail to well, I want to thank you all for telling this story.

the executive director and really kind of the backbone behind this, Judy Rose, thank you for being here, Judy.

Thank you for the opportunity.

Thank you.

Roy Ernst, founder of music for Veterans National Association.

Great having you here.

Thank you for being here.

Jimmy Smith, vice president.

Great to see you.

Thanks for telling your story here.

Thank you.

Sir.

And Laura held to the Veterans Outreach Center.

Thanks for the work that you do.

Thank you.

Thank you for your service.

Thank you all.

And we will be back with you all tomorrow on member supported public media.

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