From WXXI news this is Connections.

I'm Evan Dawson.

Election day is coming and we are conducting a series of interviews with the candidates for office who are appearing on your ballots now, later this hour.

Republican candidate for governor, Bruce Blakeman, will join us.

He is the Nassau County Executive.

And I can tell you that Governor Kathy Hochul did get back to us this week, and she has declined our invitations to appear on Connections at any point before the elections.

Even in a 15 minute segment.

And, of course, our goal is to bring the candidates together in a race.

We'd love to have the candidates sit down next to each other if we can, but we are willing to be flexible, particularly for the governor and for Mr.

Blakeman.

We're going to be glad to have Bruce Blakeman on later this hour, and we will not be having the governor run.

That is her choice.

Now, when it comes to the next guest, you're the first guest this hour.

It's a similar situation.

The guest in the studio is the Democrat who is running for New York State Senate in District number 54.

That's Michael Mills, who is what?

That's that.

I want to say thank you for being with us in studio, Michael.

We appreciate the appreciate the opportunity.

And it's always great to be with you and your opponent is the incumbent, the Republican Pam Helming.

And she has not responded to our request that she join us.

We take that as she is declining the invitation.

We certainly would prefer to have her, but that is certainly their choice.

So thank you for being here.

Michael's website.

We always tell the listeners where you can find more about the candidates and what they have online.

It's Elect mills.com.

Let's tell people who you are why you're running for office right now.

Yeah, I appreciate the opportunity again to be here and talk to your listeners.

So I'm running really because my story is disappearing for too many Americans, and too many New Yorkers.

I grew up the first couple of years of my life in a trailer in Honeoye.

My parents, my mom was a nurse.

My dad was a union teacher.

And they were able to leverage the systems and opportunities and work hard and buy a small house on the west side in Greece.

And that's where I spent my whole childhood.

And most months, we had enough food.

We didn't know what we didn't have because we were happy.

And, my parents worked really hard and taught us the value of that.

And they scrimped and saved to, put us through college.

We leverage Pell grants and student loans.

My brother and I went on to college, and that's just the opportunity that is missing for too many people.

And so affordability creating that life where people have an opportunity to be and do, be who they want, do what they want, is really the primary focus of our campaign.

Okay.

And where is home for you now?

So we live in Canandaigua and this is the district.

Paint the geographic picture for our listeners of your district.

Yeah, it wraps perfectly around Monroe County in Rochester.

So it's all of Wayne County, all of Livingston, all of Ontario, and then five communities in Monroe County.

Okay.

And why the state Senate for you?

Why not something well, you can tell people a little bit more about some of the local service you've done.

This is not the first, but why don't you tell them a little bit more about why this particular seat and what has led you there?

Yes.

And before that, I would be remiss if I didn't say that.

I'm married.

My wife, Audrey, is the chair of the education department at Hobart and William Smith Colleges teaching the next generation of teachers.

And we have a five year old son named Lewis who just started kindergarten.

Why this district?

I was previously on Canandaigua City Council.

And one of the great frustrations I had is I looked at the issues that we are trying to tackle.

Local governments are being required, just like each of us are at our home budgets to do more with less.

And we have to constantly balance the need for increased infrastructure.

The cost of that increased services with people really being challenged to pay for that.

And there are really a couple mechanisms that are available to local governments, and that is state grants.

It is your tax levy.

And it is economic development.

And as I started to talk to my peers and other communities and as we tried working with other communities, those challenges really came to a head.

And so I decided that, you know, and realistically, we also don't have a seat at the table in Albany, in our district, you know, where Democratic state represented by a Republican.

And we can argue whether that's fair or not.

But that is just the reality.

We do not get the same attention, the same investment that, you know, Senator Cooney brings home here to Rochester, Samra Brouk or others.

So, I had these great frustrations for the things we needed to do in our community that we simply weren't getting the support that we needed.

And so, decided that the Senate is the place where we can tackle and try to chip away at some of these really big, intractable issues.

Now, as a Democrat, you just talked about affordability and how hard things are.

And I want you to make the argument that if you're going door to door and someone says, okay, tell me about you, tell me why you're running.

And then I say, look, we're mostly a want.

We're essentially a one party rule state.

Your party's in control and everything's gotten more expensive.

Why am I sending another Democrat to Albany?

What are you telling them?

Yeah.

So I think there there's a lot.

Does that a fair question?

It is a fair question.

And Democrats ought to be talking about that more.

There's this disconnect.

You know, so many of the things that people face on a daily basis, the affordability issues are really national macroeconomic trends, right.

New York State is going to do a ton to change your grocery bill.

They're not in control of whether we go into Iran or not.

And that jacks up our diesel prices, which now impact farmers in our district who are trying to make ends meet.

So a lot of that is a real challenge.

But, you know, data came out yesterday, Upstate United had a post about how we are number one and all the negative tax categories.

Right.

Negative.

Highest number one for tax rate.

So those are real challenges.

And so what I tell people is first of all I'm a Democrat which gets me a seat at the table.

But I don't go along with Democrats all the time.

And I'm sure we'll get into that.

I've called the governor out for approving a crypto mine and Seneca Lake, you know, so so I will not just be a rubber stamp for Democrats.

But when you get into affordability, there are real things we can do in, in our district.

I think one of the things that drives affordability, if we can't drive the lever down on our taxes, what we can do is grow the economic pie.

And right now, the the plainest example of that is the micron facility going in Syracuse, which I think everybody knows is this big microchip investment.

Senator Schumer secured $44 million to create this AI corridor from Syracuse to Buffalo.

There are very few conversations.

I generally start them that says what in Senate 54 is our role in that?

Do we want to be the place that people live in or on the weekends, come and spend their money?

Do we want to create ancillary businesses there?

Do we want to be the logistics hub?

And so if we can't ratchet down some of these taxes, which we need to dig into, we need to make it more affordable for businesses to locate and start here.

We need to do some other things.

What we can do is grow that pie and and we're simply not talking about that collectively in that region right now of what we can do differently.

Okay.

But what's an example?

If you are in that seat, what would you be advocating for how to leverage Micron's arrival in your district.

Yeah.

So, one of the things is building housing.

Being I think there's a real opportunity for people who want to work at these places, who want to live in the the beautiful environment of the Finger Lakes region.

So one of the things we tried to do on city council was change our zoning.

Right?

So we need to look at, encourage and support local zoning changes.

We need to change the calculations in the amount of investment that is coming to those communities.

So there are several pools of money that are used for infrastructure investment or, you know, and so encouraging people to be, smart home communities, which is a requirement now in New York state.

Some designation that you can go after that is a requirement to get this funding.

So that's one of the areas I would focus on is we would start to build housing.

Ontario County is one of only two counties in New York state that's growing.

And we need to make sure that there's housing there.

So these are all interconnected.

So we need to talk about energy, access to energy.

So there's a lot I'm sure we'll unpack.

But housing is one of those areas we can expand capacity, which drives affordability.

Okay.

It's but easy to say a lot harder to do.

And this is something that we've talked about.

This is something that has been chronicled.

Well, and Derek Thompson and Ezra Klein's book abundance, where the the average American is having a hard time with housing right now.

But housing is more expensive where Democrats are in power in blue states and blue cities.

Why do you think that is?

And if we're going to increase the supply, it's easy to say that you want to do that, and it's harder to do it in practice.

What's going to actually get it done?

Well, let's be clear.

One of the reasons housing is more expensive is because people want to live in blue states.

Education is high.

Economic advancement is possible.

So people want to live there.

So, the basic laws of economics, that's not the only know I get it.

I get it's hard to build in a lot of those.

But I want to be I want to start there and make sure that that's understood, that people want to live there.

But yeah, you know, is a candidate for a city council member.

So in the abundance book, they talk about seeker, right?

It's a it's a basically local government says that, you know, we're not violating any principles or laws when it comes to environmental regulation.

And we is council.

We had two developments come before us.

The city of Canandaigua is mostly the land is mostly built out.

So we're very challenged in that regard.

And it was the secret process.

It was laughable.

It comes forward.

It's this regulatory hurdle that you have to go through, and it takes several meetings, which adds to the timeline of production, which adds to the cost of production.

And it's literally council getting advice from, you know, people that work in the local government and saying, yeah, it's going to be fine.

It's not rigorous, it's a hurdle.

And so I'm not saying remove all environmental regulations.

I've spent my career working on environmental policy, but we need to have common sense legislation that chips away at some of those things that when they were created in the 70s, it was because of the severe environmental degradation and they've stacked upon each other.

And so, yeah, we need to streamline some of the things, the environmental reviews, the energy reviews that go into that, that make housing more affordable are expensive.

You're talking about your experience in local government.

You're running state government on the regulations you're talking about, or the environmental review requirements, mostly coming from the federal level or the state level.

Both.

Okay.

There are both.

So there are things you could do at the state level.

There are.

So at the federal level, I'll give you an example.

You know, the water review.

That has federal and state.

There's a capacity that's one of the areas we can work on at the state level.

So if you say to me right now, you want to go out and build a housing development and there is a review, there's a water body there, and we have to review, from the state.

Someone has to come in and review the impact that will have on that body of water.

It can take up to a year to get somebody out there.

We need to go out there just to go out and review it.

We need to build capacity in our system, staffing, if we're not going to change that regulation, which I think there is real value in it, we need to add capacity.

I am for I am absolutely pro economy, pro smart development.

And that means balancing.

I believe you're going to hear me say it a lot.

I believe we can hold two thoughts in our head at the same time.

We can be pro-development and pro-environment, and so we need to make sure that business isn't getting run over on the environment or consumers, and the environment isn't holding up necessary development.

And so that's an area.

Building capacity within our reviewing bodies is a real thing that the state can work on and needs to work on.

This is where I'd love to have your opponent, Republican incumbent Pam Helming Senator Helming, to talk about whether she thinks she is actually advocating for leveraging micron and doing these things.

I take it you haven't found that to be the case with her.

I have you had conversations with her?

No, I haven't talked to her about it.

But I just see what happens in the district.

And I talk to economic development professionals at County offices and others.

I've sort of been shouting into the wind on this for a couple of years.

It was one of the real reasons I ran for city Council in 2023 was, I don't want us to be the hole and that massive, once in a lifetime economic development donut that is happening.

And so, yeah, I mean, that's my great frustration.

I appreciate anyone who runs for office.

I appreciate anyone who's served in the state Senate for six years.

But, you know, it's more than just showing up for ribbon cuttings.

It's actually getting in there and rolling up your sleeves, and making sure that we are, not just sending letters to say, you know, don't close a hospital in Wayne County.

It's actually fighting.

And that's what I've done.

And we can get into examples of that.

But that's what I've done, you know, my career and will continue to do as a senator.

You've indicated you think the governor made a mistake on Seneca Lake with the Greenwich plant there?

Crypto mining?

You know, there's talk of a data center.

So let's just start with this.

I have not been able to talk to the governor.

As I said at the start of this program, she has never come on this program.

We were hoping to get her before the election.

She has declined that opportunity.

So I'm disappointed.

But that is what it is.

I would love to ask her.

You know, there's not a whole lot of people who work in that plant.

It's not it's not a huge jobs creator.

I want to understand the mentality of, do you understand why the governor has been supporting that project?

I don't, and to be clear, right.

I'm saying the governor is supporting that because her environmental review agencies approved permits for that facility.

Yeah, but she's still responsible for that.

That's my point.

That's my point.

So I haven't talked to her about it.

It is, you know, as we are, $4 billion plus in tourism comes through the Finger Lakes.

And I say all the time, our lakes, our lives, how go our lakes will go our lives.

And so to say, you know, Greenidge says we're complying with air regulations.

We're fine with everything else.

Data shows that there is an increase of chemicals landing on farm fields.

But it also we're turning now up to 108 degrees of millions of gallons of water weekly into Seneca Lake at a place where we have harmful algal blooms are a real problem.

And if they continue to proliferate, they will, you know, end what makes this region beautiful.

And so I can't explain it, but what I want to do is pivot if we can, because you mentioned it.

And if you want to bring it up later, we can.

But you mentioned data center.

Yeah, that's exactly where I wanted to go.

So whether it is this crypto mine, which they are now trying to permit and challenge the governor to see if her moratorium will hold up to becoming a data center or data centers or large scale infrastructure of that kind.

I'm the only candidate in this region that I know about who's come out and said, the moratorium doesn't go far enough.

Here's what we need to do.

We need policy.

And my proposal, and we had an op ed in the Livingston County News.

It's available on our website, but we proposed the following things.

If you are going to have a large scale infrastructure project like a crypto mine, like a data center, number one, the local community has to decide they want it.

They have to have that choice.

Number two, it needs to be supplied by renewable energy, and that needs to be paid for by the developer.

These are facilities, the billions of dollars that are going into investing in these companies that are building these centers is massive.

So that's the second thing.

Three, it needs to have a closed loop water system.

You know, they are improving the technology so that it's, it's becoming more efficient.

But we need to protect these bodies of water, and we should make sure that there is not state and local tax incentives going to bring these facilities again in here.

The point I want to take a step back and make is I am proud to be endorsed by several labor groups, and I get the absolute tremendous jobs that these create in the short term, and there is real economic value there.

And so I am not saying no data centers ever.

If we're going to have them, though, they should be responsible additions to our community and they should provide those good jobs in the construction side.

Let me just jump in and start talking to people as I drove around the state this summer coaching baseball.

Yeah, I see a lot of no data center signs in rural areas, in areas that also have Bruce Blakeman signs and Republican signs.

And the polling is interesting on data centers and I in general, in that these areas actually look pretty bipartisan, and we can't get people to agree on anything these days, but they seem to mostly agree.

Most Americans say they want AI to slow down at a minimum or stop.

They're concerned about its impact in the future.

They're doubtful to make their lives better.

Most American or most New Yorkers are right now at least saying data centers are not something they want next to their house, next to their neighborhood, or in their backyard.

It doesn't matter if you're a Republican or a Democrat.

Where it splits is at the elite level.

So we're seeing on the national level, AI is becoming a Republicans versus Democrats thing pretty quickly.

And I wonder if that'll translate to the rank and file.

So far it hasn't.

In the same way, when I talked to Republicans on this program in office, they often tell me, well, we can't do a moratorium because other states are going to do data centers, and we're going to lose.

We're going to lose jobs.

We lose opportunities, we're going to go backwards.

What do you say to them?

So we're conflating two things that I want to separate them.

Yeah.

Yeah I all data centers are not for sure.

And so we I think in the public consciousness very connected I definitely agree I just want to be clear on that.

So look the cat's out of the bag.

Or the horse is out of the barn.

You know, the hay is whatever metaphor you want to use.

New York State has the third most data centers are in the country.

Right.

And so I think what you're hearing, certainly in our district is and it's one of the things I started talking about it in this campaign, people are tired of being the waste dump, the power plug and the crypto mind for the rest of the state.

We want to say in whether we get those here and whether we benefit, you know, their communities in Virginia who don't pay taxes because they are the data center capital of the world.

And they they are so, profitable in investing in tax dollars that it lowers your levy.

That's compelling.

And if the local community wants to choose that, they should choose that.

But I think what you're hearing and I'm hearing all the time is there's this great frustration that things are happening to us and we don't have a say in it imposed on, imposed on people.

Yeah.

I mean, we've got Seneca meadows, which, you know, my opponent has taken money from.

That is a real problem for our region, not just our community.

We this is again, people here, Seneca meadows.

And it sounds like a retirement, right?

Correct.

It is a landfill.

It's massive.

Yes.

And every few years it's supposed to be capped, and then they get an expansion.

They.

I mean, I'm summarizing.

Is that fair?

That is.

And it's and it's up for review now.

It's actually been in review for the last couple of years.

And the state has paused and move forward.

And there have been legal challenges.

The point, you know, when I bring people, friends from all over the country to visit this region that I love, and I'm, I'm, I love going out and showing them the wineries.

I know you you, fancy them as well.

We go by Trash Mountain.

There's there's one, you know, from Canada to Geneva, and I sort of have to make this joke about it to explain away what it is.

These are scars in our community, and I get that they have to go somewhere.

But local communities should have a say.

And if they want them, there should be benefit.

And so I think really again, Evan, what you're hearing is people are frustrated.

Let me let me take a little diversion.

America used to be this place of amazing opportunity and optimism and this infinite pie.

And too many Americans feel that it's now a finite pie.

And if you get something, I'm losing something.

And so there is this great sense of, something's happening to us and we don't have a say.

And they're right.

We don't.

And that's what I'm fighting for.

And to stand it, we have that say, okay, but what could you do as a a state senator regarding these waste dumps?

And what's the actual mechanism of power here?

Well, I'll go back to the data centers for a second.

We will introduce that legislation.

If we don't, when we get in there, we will introduce a bill that requires those pieces.

Local support, local support, renewable energy paid for by the developer of water close loop water system and no taxes, state or local tax incentives to bring them here.

We will propose that legislation.

Okay.

By the way, how would you if I said forget you as a legislator, as a citizen, you want a data center nearby?

Would you vote?

I don't you would say no, I would say no.

Okay.

Yeah.

I mean, have you have you seen them or heard that.

Oh yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

That's not what I want in my neighborhood.

Okay.

But but some may choose at some point you allow them to choose okay.

So now let's get to a mechanism of power to deal with landfills.

What would you do.

Yeah.

We've got to address the regulatory and the legal process.

And I don't know exactly what that answer is because it's technically I'm not a lawyer, but when you can, say a permit is up, the permitted Seneca meadows act.

Correct me if I'm wrong colors, but, it has expired.

And so they are operating in this legal limbo.

That's a legal battle.

And it's continuing to receive, literal tons of trash every day.

And so we have to address the legal and regulatory process that creates this limbo for those communities.

That's the biggest thing right now that is holding up the future.

And you know, by the way, you will talk to some people in that community and they like the tax benefit.

Right.

And when they think forward to if we close that down, what my tax bill looks like and how challenged and stretched.

Going back to our original conversation, there are some people in the community that want that.

You said that Seneca meadows has donated to your opponent's campaign, haven't donated to, you know, okay.

But the implication is that that taints her record on a do you think it does?

I'm just stating a fact.

I mean, look, do I believe if somebody this is one of the challenges with campaign finance, do I believe if somebody writes me a $500 check that I am now beholden to them entirely?

No, that's pretty craven to say that.

Right.

But I do think it speaks to the issues you care about.

And you prioritize.

And I prioritize health in our environment.

We do.

And by the way, one of the things that we haven't talked about is that we need to improve our diversion mechanisms for how we manage waste and what is waste.

We need to get food scraps out of our dumps.

We need to do a lot of different things and have a more holistic approach to to waste.

We're just talking about a landfill.

You know, one of the things, right now, a good friend of mine, a former colleague on City council, Doug Merrow, organized a tour out to an incinerator in Syracuse.

It produces energy.

It is 90%, less dangerous to the environment than a waste dump.

And the senator got a moratorium or not?

A moratorium.

Legislation passed.

It prevents an incinerator in our region.

I don't know why.

What you know, was it that she took a $500 check?

Maybe.

I don't know if it was 500, $250 or whatever it was.

Maybe.

Maybe not.

But the point is, I don't believe we should have that in our community, and I'm not going to take money from them.

I do wish your opponent were here because I on the incinerator issue.

I have no expertise.

I have no idea.

And I would love to ask her, but, yeah.

Incumbent Senator State Senator Pam Helming did not respond to our request that she join us for this conversation.

So you're only hearing the Democrat in this race?

It's the New York State Senate, district number 54.

You're hearing Michael Mills, who is the Democrat.

Let me, in a moment.

I'm going to grab Stephanie's phone call.

I want to let you know that we invite candidates to come on together.

That's always the goal.

If they don't want to come together, sometimes they say yes, but not together.

We do our best to schedule them separately, although we try to bring them together.

So you're going to hear kind of a mix throughout election season.

You're going to see some who come together, which is great.

You're going to see some would come just one candidate from a race.

So you've got Michael Mills.

Senator Pam Helming has not responded to us.

That's her choice.

And in our second half hour you're going to hear Bruce Blakeman, the Republican running for governor.

He'll be on today.

And Governor Kathy Hochul has declined.

She will not come on at all.

So that's where we are with that.

And we should let you know the sexy news is your soy sauce.

For election coverage, you can visit WXXI news.org in the coming weeks for information about the races that will be on your ballot.

You'll find background on the candidates.

And of course, we're going to talk to as many of the candidates on this program.

We'll link to those conversations so you can be ready for Election Day.

Election night.

We'll have coverage on election night.

So there you go.

Let me grab Stephanie on the phone for Michael Mills.

Go ahead.

Stephanie.

Hi there.

Stephanie, I want to start.

There you are.

Go ahead, go ahead.

Yeah.

Do you hear me?

All right.

First, I want to say that it's hopeful a lot because this is one of the best programs in terms of news coverage and understanding the issues around Iowa.

Thank you.

Our area.

I have a I have a question about, the data center.

I as far as I understand, the close with technology is not up to date with the amount of energy that is being tried, but trying to be cool, right?

And a lot in many cases, especially down in, Georgia, the things have been passed in such a way where, you know, any explanation of the quality of technology for the water has been written off, the proprietary technology that they get, you know, share with people.

And that's very concerning to me, the rate of growth of the technology, the rate, growth, the need for the water and the ecological technology does not seem to be on or on par with that.

And in watering it, there's a possibility, you know, creating some sort of policy or a requirement that anybody who's building that kind of money has to have, you know, proof that they can do that first with technology and not just when it opens, but to have a yearly review, to make sure that it is that it is clean up with the demands of the, the computer systems that they've got in there.

Is that an option?

And also, can meet public company.

So I need to make sure that any environmental things are going to be remediated on their dollar.

Okay, Stephanie.

Thank you for the phone call.

Candidate Michael Mills.

Go ahead.

So, Stephanie, thanks for the question.

You know, this is one of the challenges, by the way, with public policy, right?

You know, here I am espousing a view and what you do is set a direction, and then you work with technical experts to make sure that the policy is sound.

And so we're setting that direction.

Yeah.

The so so that would be the goal.

And so we'll work with the technical experts to see what those requirements are.

What that looks like is the technology up to speed.

But the other piece is you know I'm a believer in working and collaborating with businesses.

So this is not to be punitive or, you know, demonizing of an industry if a community wants them, if New York State wants to continue to be a leader in data center housing, then let's work with those companies to make sure that the right technology is in place, that, that the the technology continues to receive investment because we've deemed it is important.

And companies say, okay, that's the way we need to do that.

We'll go forward with that.

You know, I worked at, I led Public Affairs cross southeast for Walmart coming out of, around the time of Hurricane Katrina.

And the CEO of the company, unbeknownst to anybody, gave this big, massive speech.

And he said, you know, I don't know if climate change is real, which I disagree with with Israel.

But he said, you know, and this is 2005, 2006.

He said, what if it is?

I have grandkids and we have the largest supply chain in America, so we are going to be supplied 100% by renewable energy, create zero waste and sell products that are good for people in the environment.

Now we can argue whether Walmart is a good company.

I don't think they pay their employees enough, but what it did was it put a flag in the ground, and then they put these infrastructure together to start to move technology forward.

And I'll just give you one quick example, because this talks to that technology and working with the industries.

If you go to a grocery store right now, even you'll remember this, some of your listeners will.

It used to be these big boxes of crystal detergent.

You can't find that now.

It's all liquid and it's concentrated.

Walmart said to get less weight on our trucks, to make them more efficient, to use less gas.

You can only sell products in our store that are concentrated.

They didn't come out of that, didn't come out of thin air.

They worked with industry to see what was feasible and how they do that.

So I use that as an illustration of what we would do here.

We think that protecting water is the goal.

And so what is the right closed loop system?

What is the right technology that we think should be part of this and encourage business to do that.

Talking to Michael Mills it's elect mills.com is his website is running it in New York State Senate district number 54.

He's the Democrat in that race.

So let's talk a little bit about you mentioned you're a supporter of businesses.

Do you think that New York State's tax climate makes it harder to attract businesses?

Yes.

Okay.

And you've wanted you've indicated a desire to cut taxes.

There's been a debate in your party, Democratic Party, about whether there should be a super wealth tax on the highest end.

Do you support that?

So yes, we need to we need to do a better job of capturing wealth from people.

And and what's losses.

These are bumper stickers.

Right.

Unfortunately policy too often is tax the rich.

Well that doesn't solve the problem because we have taxes in play.

There just so many loopholes you can get through.

I would rather you know, close the capital gains loophole.

I would rather do some things that go after wealth and not just a dollar sign.

That's taxes.

So yeah, we need to have a more fair distribution.

And I have to be careful because somebody is going to say, you know, I'm a socialist.

That's not what we're talking about.

People need to pay their fair share.

And if you talk to some of these ultra wealthy folks, they will say, yeah, I'm happy to pay more to provide those services.

We are at a place where the majority of Americans, the majority, are struggling month to month, and that is not sustainable.

And so we can grow our way out of it, which I will continue to push for.

But we also need to make sure that people are paying their fair share.

And I understand your point about capturing wealth or capturing taxes and not allowing loopholes.

Does that mean you would not vote for a super wealth tax if you're elected?

Well, I would have to see what that definition is, right?

That's what I'm saying.

Like, so, you know, we have a, the the legislature had to vote on, a New York City pet terror tax.

Yeah, right.

That has no impact on Rochester, New York or has no impact.

Sure.

You know, Canandaigua, New York.

And so, you know, I am focused on things that actually provide real value to our district and to our state.

And I would look for things, more importantly that do have an impact here, like the, the, you know, being not being able to carry interest, that they've been able to do.

So you'd rather cut loopholes and target new tax.

What is that a fair statement?

I think targeted new taxes can make sense, but they have to be targeted and actually deliver something.

What are you going to use those taxes for?

How are they going to make sure that they come back here?

Okay.

But when it comes to let's forget the wealthiest, let's just talk taxes in general, the I am certain that if your opponent were here, she would say that it is your party.

That is the reason that we have the one of the highest taxed states, and that you are not to be trusted.

So what is the argument to voters who bring that up?

Well, what I wish you was here because I'd like to get an answer from her.

Multiple municipalities have gone to the senator and said we would like to raise our hotel motel tax, which requires a senator and assembly member from your home district to carry legislation because it requires its home rule legislation.

It requires approval in Albany.

Then you can come back and vote on it.

And she said no, because she's against all new taxes.

You wanted to do this in Canada, Canada, town of Geneva, Ontario County.

And I hate to break it to the senator.

How taxes actually work.

That's not a tax on local residents.

If you can afford $500 a night to stay at the lake house in Canada, where you can afford an extra 1% on your tax bill, which now puts 100,000 or $300,000 into the city of candidate coffers, which prevents us from raising taxes, 1% that we need to to pay for infrastructure improvements.

So I'd love an answer to that.

Beyond just that, that sort of let me let me try to embody Senator helming that.

Okay.

What if she were to say, look, you can keep raising taxes, but then you're going to cut tourism, you're going to be known as a very expensive place to go.

And people will not go to Canandaigua.

They'll go elsewhere.

And then your tax base suffers.

All data to the contrary.

I lived in Atlanta for a long time, and you pay a 6% transportation fee.

You pay your hotel motel tax, it gets up to somewhere between 10 to 18%, depending on the municipality.

If you can afford that hotel, you can afford 1% tax.

Okay, so I appreciate the sentiment.

But that's real rubber meets the road.

Where else do you think taxes can be literally cut or reduced for New Yorkers?

Yeah, I think I think the fees and the cost to get started.

I'm a small business owner.

And when you think about the incorporation fee, it's just it's not the, you know, we're suffering from death by a thousand paper cuts.

And I'm not going to sit here and dive into a whole, you know, discourse of the 50 things we could do for our taxes.

There are things for as small as, you know, lowering the threshold to start a business in New York.

You know, the mandatory requirement that I don't want to get in trouble with WXXI and your newspaper connections.

But, you know, the fact that I have to spend $800 to put a listing in a newspaper that's cost prohibitive for some small businesses, and it takes time.

So that's from that end to then on the other end, you know, managing how we capture wealth.

So, absolutely, there are things we can do.

And I want to do that because I am a small business owner.

I ran the Geneva Business Improvement District and during Covid and saw what it was like to try and keep those businesses open.

And that's the first time you and I actually, I was on your show.

Yeah.

The last thing I do want to say before we switch gears, I want to be clear, I'm not here to to, you know, beat up Pam Helming.

That's the last thing I want to do.

I have a record of 30 years of public policy advocacy, from health care issues to environmental issues to pro business development.

That's what I'm running not.

But at the same time, you know, I do want to point out where the senator and I disagree.

So I just wanted to put clarity there.

It's not to be critical of Pam.

It you know, I've had we've worked together on some things or tried to work together on some things.

She's perfectly nice.

That's not my intent.

My intent is to point out real differences.

Fair enough.

Where do you think you disagree with your own party?

Most of all, I think the size and scope of government, and I saw it firsthand as a, as a city council member, the challenge of how you do more with less and, that one of the real challenges that New York faces.

And I'll give an example, I believe, there's a weatherization program in New York State, and it basically says there are funds available for people to, improve their performance of their homes.

So it's it's more comfortable.

But your energy bills are lower.

If we're going to tackle energy, one of the first places we do is use less of it.

And so right now we have a program that's modified 1% of the homes in New York state.

Since it's created, we need to invest wildly in that.

And so, you know, we're we're supposedly an environmentally, a party focused on environmental policy, which we are.

But we need to put those funds to work for real solutions.

And I think that's the disconnect.

You mentioned abundance before.

Very often the Democratic Party, we get focused on the minutia in the weeds instead of providing real solutions today.

And if we quadrupled the fund that's available for weatherization, we would see people's energy bills come down this winter, and they are the people who need it most.

And the last thing I'll say about that is I ran a group called the Southeast Energy Efficiency Alliance.

We had a $21 million federal grant to create an energy efficiency marketplace in 11 states across the southeast and the Virgin Islands.

We chose to do that by creating weatherization programs.

So we worked with nonprofits and local communities.

We actually built a workforce that was now trained and equipped in modern technology, and we need to invest wildly in that, not just talk about saving the environment.

We need to invest in business, in our economy, in our communities, in ways that I don't think we're doing enough right now because our time is up.

I ask all candidates, Will you come back if you're elected and talk to us any time you'll have me?

I do appreciate you being here.

Michael Mills is a candidate for New York State Senate district number 54.

Again, listeners should know today we've invited candidates on your ballot, and we want them to be together if we can.

That's up to them.

We hope they'll say yes.

In this case, we did not get a response from the Republican incumbent in the Senate district, Pam Helming.

But Michael Mills, the Democrat, has been here elect Mills e-commerce website.

Thank you for making the time for us.

I appreciate the opportunity.

When we come back, we invited the gubernatorial candidates, governor Kathy Hochul has declined.

She is not going to come on this program before the election.

The Republican Bruce Blakeman, Nassau County executive, joins us next.

Coming up in our second hour, we conclude a week of special rebroadcast in our second hour, focusing on local history.

And we bring back a conversation with a Holocaust survivor named Leah Malik.

She told the story of her own family her father, grandfather, two aunts and several cousins murdered by the Nazis.

But she escaped and she's talking to us about the cycle of history.

Leah Malik next, our.

Support for your public radio station comes from our members and from Mary Carolla Center.

Proud supporter of Connections with Evan Dawson, believing and informed and engaged community is a connected one.

Mary, Carrie, ola.org and ESL Rochester Fringe Festival presenting Cirque to fringe anchors away a world premiere circus performance featuring acrobatics, aerialists and a mystery aboard the Spiegeltent.

September 15th through 26.

Tickets at Rochester fringe.com.

This is Connections.

I'm Evan Dawson, and I want to thank Michael Mills for being here.

And let's talk about the New York State gubernatorial campaign.

A lot of our listeners have been asking us for months.

Please get the candidates on.

Please get the governor on.

The governor knows that she has had an open invitation for a long time on this program, and she has never been on this program.

And her team told us this week she's going to decline our invitation for this election season.

That is her choice.

Bruce Blakeman is the Republican in the race.

He is the Nassau County Executive, and he has a very busy weekend ahead with the nor'easter coming.

But he is joining us now remotely, and I want to thank Mr.

Blakeman for being here.

Bruce, thank you for making the time for the program.

Well, thanks very much.

I just had a press conference with the Suffolk County Executive, concerning the nor'easter.

So, we're very concerned about this storm.

We have all our operations centers open, and, we are taking all measures to keep people safe.

This will be a significant weather event down here.

So for all of you up and, the Rochester area that are listening, just say a prayer for the people on Long Island for this weekend because we are going to get a rough storm.

Yes, sir.

Well, let's move quickly here, because I want to make the most of our time.

A new poll came out this week showing you down by nine points to Governor Hochul.

Four years ago, the Republican in the race, Lee Zeldin.

Same poll was down by 17.

He lost by five.

In that trend continues.

This could be a very, very close election.

What do you want voters thinking about when they go to the polls?

First and foremost.

Well, first of all, wherever I go in New York State, people are miserable under Kathy Hochul.

We are the highest tax state in the United States of America.

That's a badge of shame.

Utility bills are 70% higher than the national average.

That's terrible.

That's why people can't afford to live here.

We're number 50 and economic outlook.

And Kathy Hochul is the most pro criminal governor of any governor in the United States of America.

So every place I go, people want to be happy again.

They want economic development, economic activity, higher paying jobs, better wages, putting more money in people's pockets by cutting taxes, cutting utility bills.

And that's how you make it more affordable.

And of course, it doesn't matter what race, religion, ethnic group you're in, what your abilities are, a lifestyle.

Everybody wants safer communities.

Now the governor is sending $200 rebate checks, says the cost of energy is very high.

You have criticized that.

You said that's an election year trick.

Do you see that as a bribe?

Well, I don't know if you call it a bribe because I think people are smart enough that, they'll take the $200, the cash, the check.

But they're still going to vote for me, because here's why.

It's a scam, and it's an election year scam.

She's raised she's raised utility rates 48 times in four years.

That averages out to one a month.

Our electric bills are 70% higher than the national average.

The average person's bill has gone up in an annual basis from 800 to $1000.

So she's giving us a one time $200 check when for this year, she raised our rates $1,000.

So people are smarter than that.

Where's the other $800?

And are you going to cut utility rates going forward?

And the answer is of course not.

This is an election year scam.

It's a dirty trick.

But like everybody else, I'll take the $200.

But, I don't think it's a bribe because people aren't going to take it that way.

They're going to take it as an insult.

By the way, President Trump is a friend of yours, and he is promising $5,000 for every American if the Republicans win the midterms.

So I assume you think that is also a scam and a dirty trick?

Well, I think $5,000 is a lot more than $200, so I'm sure people will be happy to take the $5,000.

But I'm completely focused on state issues.

Kathy Hochul wants to talk about Washington issues.

She wants to talk about President Trump because she can't talk about the fact that we're the highest tax state.

She's taking money out of our pockets.

Each and every paycheck that are utility bills are 70% higher than the national average.

And we have unsafe communities because of her policies.

So she's going to try and turn the tables and talk about everything other than her record.

My record is one of cutting taxes.

I haven't raised taxes a penny in five years, and U.S.

News and World Report says I have the safest county in America.

But the reason I'm asking about President Trump is not because Kathy Hochul wants me to.

The governor won't even come on this program.

Here's why I'm asking.

The criticism of the, the criticism of the rebate check that you're making.

I understand, but I've also seen you say on the campaign trail, we need bold leadership.

Someone who's honest with voters, someone who will call out heresies of government when they see it.

But you also told CBS New York that you're not going to criticize President Trump on anything, and his his, 5000 bucks is way more than the governors.

You won't criticize him for that, and you're not criticizing him for the cost of diesel or gas.

You talk to New York farmers, they're worried about that.

We have a war in Iran that was a war of choice.

So I'm wondering if you're going to talk to your friends and say you have to stop the war.

You got to help our farmers.

Those are federal issues, okay?

They affect New Yorkers.

The governor deals with state issues.

Kathy Hochul has made this the most unaffordable state.

She wants to change the narrative and talk about President Trump.

And by the way, I have policy differences with President Trump.

I believe we should have a comprehensive immigration program that's a guest worker program, not amnesty, not citizenship.

But if people have been here for 7 or 8 or 9 or 10 years, they're gainfully employed, they're not on welfare.

And, they've stayed out of trouble.

I think we should give them a guest worker permit.

So, I have a different policy with President Trump on that.

I'm pro-choice.

President Trump is pro-life.

I can have differences with the president, but the fact of the matter is, I'm running for the governor of the state of New York.

And when we are number 50 and economic outlook and thousands of people, hundreds of thousands of people left New York last year, businesses left New York taking hundreds of thousands of jobs.

People need a governor that will make them happy again by putting New Yorkers first.

And we're not putting New Yorkers first.

This governor and many Democrats in the legislature supported a law that would have forced Ice agents to unmask when they are operating in this state.

Now, the Trump administration went against them in court.

The state lost.

That is ultimately a federal agents purview is what the courts have said.

If you were the governor, would you want Ice to not mask?

Would you have supported that law?

Did you support the Trump administration on that battle?

Well, here's the bizarre policies of Kathy Hochul.

Kathy Hochul wants to unmask federal agents who are lawfully performing their work, keeping us more safe.

And she'll allow terrorists and criminals to wear masks.

She criticized me when I said the criminals and the people who are doing bad things, harassing people, committing acts of violence, anti-Semitic acts, I said those people shouldn't be able to wear a mask.

And Kathy Hochul disagree with me.

She's not consistent.

And by the way, if you're a federal agent and there's a reason why you have to wear a mask, some of these people have been killed in the performance of their job.

And basically, I have removed illegal migrants with criminal records from my county without raiding one school, one church.

I don't know what Kathy Hochul is talking about.

When she says that there are federal raids on churches and schools and hospitals that never occurred in the state, and it certainly didn't occur in my county because I cooperated by having my police and my sheriff's department in charge of those operations so they would not be carried out and and in a very, orderly way, in a way that wasn't consistent with the law.

You don't think armed agents of the state should be able to be identified either by badge or by face, in some way?

I think patrol officers should be unmasked.

But if you are in a special operation, an undercover operation, and you have police officers or detectives or federal agents that have been threatened with their lives, then of course we have to hide their identities.

We don't want anything bad to happen to these people.

Two Ice agents were murdered.

Already.

Ice agents have killed Americans, Mr.

Blakeman.

I mean, shouldn't we know who they are?

I mean, Ice agents have literally killed American citizens in the last year.

Not in New York State, not in New York state.

I didn't let it happen in my county.

I work very well with our federal agents, as I do all the time with our federal, state and local officers.

Kathy Hochul said they've committed atrocities in New York state.

Name one Kathy.

But I know what I did.

I got hundreds, thousands of illegal migrants with criminal records ranging from murder, attempted murder, rape, robbery, burglary, drug dealing, gang activity.

Out of my county, out of this state.

Kathy Hochul, which community do you want to put these people back in to make it less safe to destroy those communities?

Do you know that in my county alone, in the last three months, illegal migrants have committed two murders, two young women 30 years old, committed by illegal migrant, and then a 14 year old girl was raped by an illegal migrant.

So stop worrying about the federal agents, Kathy Hochul.

Stop worrying about the people who are victims of these crimes and getting this community in this state a much safer place like I've done in my county, where U.S.

News and World Report says my county is the safest county in America.

We're going to try to get as many as we can in here with Bruce Blakeman.

He's the Republican running for governor, by the way.

Mr.

Blakeman, what's your campaign website for people who want to check out more?

Blakeman for New york.com.

Blakeman for New york.com.

Please contribute.

Volunteer.

Get a lawn sign.

We have a grassroots effort and with the help of so many people in New York State, many of them Democrats, every day another Democrat comes up to me and says, Bruce, I'm a lifelong Democrat.

I've never voted Republican in my life.

I'm voting for you this year because our party has gone insane.

This is not the Democratic Party.

All right.

Daniel Patrick Moynihan of you carry it's not the Democratic Party of Bill Clinton.

This is the Democratic party of people like Zoran Mundi who are running the party now.

And Kathy Hochul is lockstep with Zoran Mamdani, me and AOC who want to take away the American dream.

That means that our parents and grandparents taught us.

All right, real quick here.

We've got two more minutes here.

Moratorium on data centers.

Would you have supported that?

First of all, Kathy Hochul banned data centers in New York State when it's the fastest emerging industry in the world.

That's why we're number 50.

And economic outlook.

I've talked to people who have opposed the data centers.

I've listened to them.

I know their concerns.

Number one, water supply.

So the data centers now say they'll put in recirculation units so they don't deplete the water supply.

Number two, energy that these data centers use a lot of energy that it might deplete the energy grid.

I've talked to the data center developers.

They're willing to put their own energy generation on site and put 127, 120% of, of capacity, give the other 20% back to the host community to lower their electric bills and also property tax stabilization is a concern, which the data centers have guaranteed that there will be property tax stabilization.

It will create hundreds of thousands of jobs.

It will create economic activity and prosperity.

But I would never dictate where a dentist data center had to go.

The host communities gotta want them, okay?

They've got to have they got there should be some local consent I want them.

It's not something that I would force on them like Kathy Hochul has forced, these science projects called, green energy scam on people throughout the state.

All right.

We got 45 seconds.

The last one here.

You told CBS New York you're going to cut Medicaid, but not Medicaid services.

You're going to cut the number of people on Medicaid, for example.

So how many fewer New Yorkers should be on Medicaid?

Well, first of all, I don't I don't recall ever saying that I would cut the number of people on Medicaid.

That's a fallacy, and that's not what I stand for.

I actually want to increase the quality of the services.

But there has to be a lot of fraud, waste and abuse.

If the Medicaid costs in New York are equal to Texas and Florida combined, we're talking about 50 million people versus 24 million people, 20 million people in New York State.

There's only 20 million people in New York State.

And our Medicaid costs are higher than 50 million people in Texas and Florida.

I don't think the people in New York State are any sicker than they are in Texas.

And Florida.

There's fraud, there's waste and abuse, and that's why people aren't getting the quality services that they deserve.

So I didn't say I would cut the number of people on Medicaid.

What I'm going to do is cut out the fraud, waste and abuse and make our health care system work better for the people in the state.

I appreciate the clarification, he told CBS news.

Six months ago.

You would not cut services.

You would start by cutting who's eligible.

I took that to mean there would be fewer people eligible.

I appreciate the clarification.

Hey, listen, I know it's a very, very busy weekend for you.

You're welcome on this program any time.

And I do hope you'll come back, especially if you are elected.

Mr.

Blakeman, thank you very much for the time.

Well, it's been my honor.

Thank you.

Bruce Blakeman is the Nassau County executive.

The Republican running for governor took our invitation to come on today.

Governor Kathy Hochul declined.

That's her choice.

More Connections coming up.

This program is a production of WXXI Public Radio.

The views expressed do not necessarily represent those of this station.

Its staff, management, or underwriters.

The broadcast is meant for the private use of our audience, any rebroadcast or use in another medium, without expressed written consent of WXXI is strictly prohibited.

Connections with Evan Dawson is available as a podcast.

Just click on the Connections link at WXXI news.

Dot.