From WXXI news.

This is connections.

I'm Evan Dawson.

Our connection this hour is made in the cause of poverty.

And here I will quote the president and CEO of action for a Better Community, Jerome Underwood.

He recently wrote, quote, if we choose to be fearlessly honest, we know that the primary cause of poverty is simple.

We choose it, end quote.

Underwood is looking back at 60 years since the founding of action for a Better Community, or ABC.

Back when Congress was funding the so-called War on Poverty in the mid 1960s.

But this anniversary is not exactly a cause for celebration.

He calls it a cause for commemoration.

Underwood is sharpening his critique of policymakers.

If community leaders who have tolerated or sometimes even created the conditions for so much poverty in Rochester and beyond.

And here are some of the numbers that Underwood is hoping will shock us.

Over 40% of children in Rochester live below the poverty line, and there is a 40% homeownership gap between white people and black indigenous people of color.

In Monroe County, Underwood says these problems are not unsolvable.

They're not so complex that nothing can reasonably be done.

Instead, he says, it's a problem of a lack of will, and he offers some possible solutions, which we will talk about.

This hour, ABC is hosting their annual conference, and Underwood wants tough questions, honest answers.

He believes that if we get those honest answers, things might actually change.

So a lot to talk about this hour and let me welcome our guest.

Jerome Underwood is president and CEO of action for a Better Community.

Welcome.

It's nice to see you back here.

Welcome.

Thanks.

Thanksgiving.

Happy new year.

Happy New Year to you.

That was a spicy little piece that you wrote.

I want to say thank even for you, I think.

Okay.

That's what you were going for was.

Well, we have a daunting challenge in front of us.

And, you know, when I look at myself, what am I going to do different and have some social capital this time to spend it?

Well, we got a lot to talk about.

Thank you for helping organize this conversation.

Next to Jerome Underwood is a friend of ours to see a John Mackey.

Tawana is senior vice president and director of community impact at ESL Federal Credit Union.

We should say the Dejamos treasurer for the WXXI Board of Trustees.

Great to see you back here.

Thank you for being here.

Great to be here.

Thanks.

Across from a Jamo doctor, Lakisha Wilson is a pediatrician and vice president of community engagement and social impact for Rochester Regional Health.

Doctor Wilson, welcome back to the program.

Thank you.

Thank you and welcome the community relations manager and corporate responsibility officer for KeyBank.

Chuck.

Oh, and one who is with us.

Chief, thank you for being here as well.

Thank you for having me.

So I want to mention listeners this is a bit of a new step for us.

We are now streaming live on YouTube.

And, the cameras are all really good except for one director.

Chris Nestle sometimes takes this really good overhead shot that unfortunately makes it look like I am balding.

so not all the cameras are perfect.

We're going to try to upgrade them.

no, we're really glad to have you on whatever platform you are finding us on.

we are very much committed to finding you wherever you are, whenever you can find us and hear us.

And, so today, that means YouTube as well.

It's the WXXI news portion of YouTube, the page for sexy news.

Great to see you all there.

So, Jerome, before we get into the conference and and everything else that's going on this month, I'm just pulling back and you kind of affirm before the program that celebration would be the wrong word for 60 years of ABC, given the state of poverty.

So commemoration.

What's the difference there?

And how do you see the state of poverty right now?

Well, it's certainly not a celebration because there way too many people who are experiencing poverty.

You know, we even change in our language because the narrative has largely been, well, you know, if individuals were to work harder and do things, the narrative for a long time has been focused on the individual and myself and others, who are deeply entrenched in this work, realize that, no, there's systems that are preventing people from having really meaningful, economically freer lives.

And I say freer because, again, you can always improve.

So it's certainly not a celebration.

And we want to commemorate the work of so many and recognize that we have a significant amount of work still ahead of us.

Well, there's a section of your recent piece that you wrote that you're citing, some scholars who've been writing a lot and thinking a lot about poverty in recent years, Matthew Desmond, among others.

And you talk about the word choice.

So I, I remember growing up in the 90s hearing a lot that poverty is a choice.

And that was often coupled with this idea that it is a choice that individuals make.

People to not improve their circumstances, correct.

And you are viewing that very differently in 2025.

How so?

First of all, there's always personal responsibility.

We're not abdicating person responsible.

Everyone has is responsible for it to a certain extent.

However, we know that when we look at data, there are certain systemic barriers that people of all races and colors have.

But there's some significant ones that people of color have, and even females, when you look at equal pay, why don't we pay?

And I'm talking about the big, you know, why don't we pay men and women equally for the same work with the same qualifications?

Why is there a disparity, in terms of education levels or access to the same quality of education, depending on where people live?

Why do people have different access to high quality health care or food, depending on where they live?

All of those are systemic issues.

So I think, you know, I can't speak for sort of the ideological opponents of some of the ideas that we're going to get into.

Sure, point by point.

But the I think what I often hear on the big picture side of it sounds something like this.

You're absolutely right about the problem of poverty.

And I, I think and I hope that we feel like it's a scandal, that this many children live in poverty.

However, throughout human history, systems we haven't really seen utopian systems where there's not poverty.

And the defenders of capitalism would say it's the best we got.

It's pulled a lot of people forward.

It is not perfect.

There's always going to be some kind of inequality.

You can use some levers, perhaps to try to mitigate that.

But ultimately what you are describing a world without poverty, a Rochester without poverty, a Monroe County in Ontario County, whatever is probably to utopian.

What do you think?

I don't think I'm describing a utopian.

And I, you know, I think we can do a lot better than we are.

There's a lot of space in between where we are right now and Utopia, a lot of space.

And we don't have to accept where we are.

Because what I'm challenging all of us to do is to not accept where we are, because we can do.

And we've seen examples where let's use, the pandemic that we just had.

Right.

And what happened with child tax credits and how many millions of families I won't even say children because children are only poor because their families are poor, got moved out of poverty by a policy decision.

And then we made a decision to undo that.

It's stuff like that I'm talking about because we found it necessary to do it.

Then we found it necessary to take it away.

No, I have a problem with that.

I mean, that probably it probably infuriates you because what what you're describing and listeners have heard probably a number of conversations about that particular piece of legislation, a child tax credit.

That's pretty simple, that within a year there's data that shows it's lifting millions of kids out of poverty.

But because Republicans and Democrats want their own flavor or their own credit for it, they fight it.

Sunsets, it goes away, we don't renew it and it's gone.

Yes.

That does that infuriates you.

Is that the kind of political policy choice that you talk about?

Yes.

It's exactly.

And it's same for them.

Democrat and Republicans.

Because to me, you know, regardless of government, we have the same challenge now to varying levels.

But the piece that I wrote, which was published in the Rochester Business Journal, if you if you recall, I opened it with a quote from Doctor Martin Luther King and what he said, one of his last speeches in 1968, he said, there's nothing new about poverty.

We have the resources.

The question is, do we have the will?

So again, with respect to your question, is the political will?

So my thing is how what what do we see as our priorities.

As is often said, the budget is what a statement of priorities.

And it's a statement of values.

So if we value and this word that we've been talking about since the pandemic of equity, if we value because equity time is a verb is what you do is not what you say.

And if our what we do and our budgets don't reflect that, then to me that needs to be called into account.

All right, listeners, as we talk about poverty this hour, if you want to join the conversation, as always, you can call the program toll free.

It's 844295 talk.

8442958255263.

If you're calling from Rochester 2639994, you can always email the program connections@kci.org.

great way to communicate with us throughout this hour.

Let me kind of go around the table in a moment and ask our guests for their own perspective on poverty and what they want us thinking about this hour.

but before we do that, Jerome just set the scene for what's actually happening this Thursday, the next Thursday.

So this Thursday is the 16th of January.

It's part two of your virtual conference coming up.

And then two Thursdays from now is a big one.

a different event as well.

So any tell listeners what's coming up.

So this Thursday we have our second day of, of our virtual conference.

we're using the same theme for the entire year, which is Empowering communities, Inspiring Change.

And that's the theme we're using to commemorate ABC's 60th anniversary.

And the three people in the studio with us today are partners with ABC, SL, Rochester Region Health and KeyBank.

they have been partners for a long time, and they will give you their perspective on why their partners partner with us.

and in this war on poverty, with respect to the conference, we had our first day last Thursday.

It was amazing.

In particular, there was a panel of young people.

When I say young, I'm talking teenagers and 20s that had a lot of things for us, the adults, to consider.

They're giving you something just just very actionable, realistic stuff.

Yes.

this Thursday, which is virtual.

we have, four panels or 3 pounds and, and a healing circle I've talk to.

we're going to start off the morning with a Green Lightning pilot.

And as you know, we've been here talking about green landing, which is our effort to close the racial wealth gap, by increasing homeownership between, amongst, Bipoc people in the Rochester MSA.

that's going to be followed by a panel on racial trauma and community mental health.

and that will close out the morning.

And in the afternoon, we're going to have a panel on violence prevention and the criminal justice system, violence prevention.

And then we're going to close it out with the amazing Melanie Funches doing a racial healing circle and, section on belonging.

and that will close out the virtual aspect of the conference.

And next Thursday on the 23rd, we're having our awards breakfast at the Rochester Museum and Science Center for both of these.

you can still go to the ABC, website and register for the virtual, conference and also purchase tickets for the breakfast.

The only $50.

Okay.

And in our show notes, we'll make sure we've got links as well.

For anyone who wants to check that out.

I should mention as well, listeners, I already have a couple of emails.

We'll get to those coming up.

You can now comment in the YouTube section.

And I've spent years saying, don't read the comments better for your mental health and any social media site.

Not to read the comments, but I think connections listeners are going to be a little different.

Yeah, it's going to be higher standard and, you know, maybe smarter discourse.

So you can comment there in the YouTube.

if you're watching on the stream there a dynamic Q&A.

Let me ask you a little bit about your thoughts on what Jerome has been writing about and talking about with poverty, just sort of confronting the fact that it's 2025 and it feels in many ways like we're still failing.

What do you think?

Yeah.

So, you know, lots of thoughts.

I'll start with, again.

So as a, director of community impact for ESL Federal Credit Union.

So our credit union as a financial institution, purpose is to help our community thrive and prosper.

all of our work that I'll say that, intersects with the challenge of poverty is in the service of recognizing that in our society, everybody needs financial services.

You know, you're paying bills, you're buying food.

no matter what your income level is.

And so we've taken actions in many ways from establishing, branches in the city of Rochester.

we've got, I think, for now, going on our fifth branch in the city of Rochester to expand access to financial services.

We've got a number of, mortgage programs, etc., to enable financial services for all.

One thing that I have learned and, and other colleagues that at the, organization that have learned recently as well to to your point, you asked Jerome about, you know, eliminating poverty.

You know, that's some sort of utopian ideal.

you know, all strategies that we know, our communities are stratified in some way.

I think that's realistic.

One thing that, as I've learned a bit of the history, really, of economics and of wealth in particular in the United States, what strikes me is that in the United States, we have not only these ideals, all men created equal in these ideals around equality.

There were points in time when, regardless of what other communities or countries have done, the United States has been successful at, significant reducing poverty in the United States.

So at the time of the Great Depression, for example, poverty rates, were essentially across the country, similar to what we see for black and brown people today.

The homeownership rate before 1930 was, below 40% across the country.

and 19 really in, in and in the 30s and through 68, we established policies to enable things like homeownership.

So the Federal Housing Finance Act created the 30 year mortgage.

So for the first time, Americans who otherwise could never save up enough money to purchase a home with government backed mortgages could now, get a loan to finance purchase of a home that, set off the trajectory towards where we see now 70% of Americans generally own homes.

Yet that same policy that established a 30 year mortgage established redlining in America.

So it explicitly excluded, black, individuals at the time and other communities of color from this policy that was quite effective at building wealth, has been quite effective at building prosperity, in the country.

Other examples, the GI Bill, systematically excluded even Social Security.

Again, a critical resource that makes America creates a safety net, if you will, for America.

The, professions of domestic work and agricultural work were systematically excluded because of the propensity of African-Americans at the time.

in those careers, unions as well.

So, so many things that America, because of our commitment to our people, have established and have effectively reduce poverty, have been systematically excluded based on race specifically, and that is more than what a lot of us today realize.

A driver of the persistent racial disparities among who is in poverty or who is not.

And I think there's an opportunity for us as a country, as businesses, as government, to make a choice to use, Jerome's word to do differently, to at least include all of America in the prosperity that we know is possible, that we see for many Americans, every day.

Well, let me just follow that one point before I turn to your colleagues.

When you're talking about the way redlining comes in, at a time where we could be at this pivot point, we're moving towards a home ownership society.

It could be much more inclusive.

And instead it wasn't.

And now, with the legacy of that, our entire communities that don't have generational wealth, the don't have, you know, one of the most important assets that any person or family could have, which is a home to own.

To either to pass on to children or to use as a piece of wealth that helps them in a crisis.

We know that's where we are.

The question becomes, you know, once you recognize that, okay, the deeds have changed.

And frankly, some communities locally are still.

Yeah, yeah.

I mean, it's it's really remarkable.

but aside from just pulling take redlining out of it, are there other policy levers that you look around?

I'm not going to make you try to solve every piece of policy drama.

That's not necessarily your job, but you're helping identify this.

Do you look at this and say it's not enough just to say we should.

That should not have happened.

It's not.

Now we've got to look at and say, this is what, ten years ago, Ta-Nehisi Coates wrote about in his piece for The Atlantic called The Case for reparations, which was talking about economic dispossession, not just a legacy of slavery, but economic dispossession.

Do you look at around now and say, not enough just to identify and say, we shouldn't have done it, but we have to be proactive on the policy side?

Is that where you are?

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

In fact, it's clear arguably, around the time that ABC was established in 1964.

But 1968 is when Martin Luther King was assassinated.

the Community Reinvestment Act was passed to start banks to require investing in communities.

To some extent, I think as a country, we left behind what was at a time the law of the land, and everyone agreed that we should keep the races separate, that, you know, black and brown individuals were inferior.

That's why we want to keep them out of our neighborhoods.

That changed.

In 1968, we recommitted to these concepts of equality and inclusion.

Yet the 40% homeownership gap that Jerome referred to has not reduced since that time.

And so that is evidence that more is needed to address that.

So it's not enough to now no longer have the same, commitment to segregation.

It's not enough to no longer feel like people are, in fear here unless we take action to actively include those, that are out of the market, in something like homeownership and those actions are things like, downpayment closing cost assistance specifically targeted to those communities that have been excluded.

It's not enough to say, okay, now we're the resources for everyone, because in a system, again, homeownership, for example, is not an easy process to go through in general.

And just like a lot of things in our country and, you know, our meritocracy, you know, when when there's competitive forces to get through is those that have a leg up, those that have, you know, say, inherited from their parents, that always have an edge and a competitive process.

So we've got to be thoughtful about those that were specifically impacted by some of these negative policies.

If we want to really, create an equal playing field.

So downpayment closing cost assistance, maybe tax incentives, it's possible for us to, develop ways to really correct for some of the, the inequality that is really has been baked in since the time that inequality was the law of the land for the United States.

We've got to undo that or correct that, if you will.

From a policy standpoint, if we really want to see, equity, in, in our country and again, some of the numbers, a 40% homeownership gap between white people and black indigenous people of color in Monroe County, at least part of that legacy is 40% of children, more than 40% of children in Rochester living below the poverty line.

And Rochester is one of the highest rates of extreme poverty of any city of its size in the country.

Even still, let me go across the table.

We're talking about poverty in, in relation to 60 years of action for a better community.

ABC is commemorating 60 years.

In 2025.

They have their annual conference, a two part annual conference that started last Thursday.

The next, component of that is this coming Thursday, the 16th.

It's an, virtual event.

They would love for you to be a part of it.

And they've got their annual breakfast the following Thursday.

The 23rd.

All the information is going to be on our show.

Notes.

Doctor Laquita Wilson is a pediatrician and vice president of community engagement and social impact for Rochester Regional Health.

You know, I'm looking at some of what Jerome talks about as possible solutions.

And I'm wondering, what do those in the medical community think about the disparities in outcomes with, with maternal health, with how children are doing?

Can, you know, can we, as Jerome says, establish a Bipoc birthing center to address unacceptable health disparities in maternal health and adult morbidity?

What do you make of some of these proposed solutions?

Those are those are excellent points.

as we have entered the pandemic, with Covid, we were able to see a lot of these health disparities, like we knew they already existed.

but it really reared its ugly head.

And we knew from a medical standpoint that we had to change the way that we provide care and what access looks like.

So at Rochester Regional, we really pride ourselves to be rooted in the community.

we have always been a community partner.

throughout the years we have said that we need to be more present, more intentional with those relationships.

one of the things that we're really working on is making sure that we amplify the voice of the community, making sure that we truly understand the needs of the community versus us.

Just saying this is what we should do.

Rochester Regional is the second largest employer.

And so when we think about being the second largest employer, we are employing the community.

So we can definitely do our part, to address some of these concerns around poverty.

So when thinking about the increase, disparities, and black maternal health, and infant mortality, we at Rochester Regional are very committed to addressing those.

we have partnered with many CBOs and saying, okay, how how do we improve care?

How do we decrease disparity?

First of all, we know it exists.

But do we actually have the data?

Should we start collecting the data to say like this is hard evidence that there is disparity, right?

we have a lot of, anecdotal, stories of families that have encountered horrific, medical treatment or outcomes.

we really need to look at our policies, how we provide care and making sure that it's equitable.

when looking at policies, procedures.

Is there a difference between our white counterparts and our patients of color when looking at poverty?

We're making sure that everyone has access to care.

And what does access to care look like?

It's it's expanding our hours.

it's opening up more clinical sites, bringing in more providers.

it's meeting our families where they're at.

So it doesn't always have to be at one of our clinics to receive care.

We could do telemedicine.

We're in the schools.

We're working on relationships to be and rec centers and what have you.

I do believe that we need to do more, right?

Especially around infant mortality, maternal, mortality and morbidity.

that our patients are, experiencing.

We are in the process of, submitting applications for grants to really honing in on that work to start.

I think the part where we really need to start is the relationship building and that trust building to have those conversations, because I do believe that many of the community, when they come into our health centers, there's a lack of trust.

There's a lot of fear that they will not leave our centers alive or with their child.

So we need to build that trust.

we need to improve the care and to improve the outcomes.

And is there room for a birthing setting or standing alone?

Birthing center?

There's definitely a need for it.

There's definitely a need.

There are certain steps that we have to go to to actually bring that to this community.

but I will say both hospital systems and other health systems are in conversations of what are the next steps, how do we, bring this to our community to make sure that we have better outcomes for women and children?

Let me just, hit two points.

One from a listener.

The first, though, I just want to follow up on this idea of, what's proposed as a Bipoc birthing center.

So if someone in the community says to you, hey, wait a second, let's fix the existing system, which has been not sufficient for so long for all the reasons you just described.

Before we create a separate birthing center, shouldn't we say, let's do this internally?

Let's let's provide the care so that we don't need that.

What is the answer for it?

I mean, I suspect you're thinking both and.

Oh, absolutely.

Okay.

So but why both and.

Absolutely.

because when you have a standalone birthing center, you still need those same providers to come and provide care, right?

So the care that the providing at the hospitals will be the same type of care that the providing at the standalone birthing center.

So we need to address the initial problem.

What is the root cause of the decrease.

expectancy, the outcomes and whatnot.

And so there has been internal conversations both at Rochester Regional and University of Rochester to say, like, we need to address this.

We really need to figure out exactly what's going on in our in our institutions.

What are the numbers showing?

What are the data?

So one of the things that we're working on is creating, a dashboard where that information is not only shared internally, but also with our partners across the street, but then also with the community.

So we can actually see the hardcore data to see where do we need to target our efforts.

And then Dom is asking, you know, if I could just, press the guess to talk about, you know, all the solutions you're describing.

He's wondering who's standing in the way.

Now, it's not always the same force or entity, or sometimes it's inertia.

Sometimes it's a lack of political will.

Jerome is making the case.

But for the changes that you want to see, what standing in the way.

Doctor Wilson, that is that is a really, really great question.

I know I bring it forward to anyone who will listen to me, and I know I am backed by the community because we're all aligned and what we want from the health care systems.

We propose it.

you know, I wonder if it's a monetary or it's like the change of policy because it policy to change policy takes takes a long move, a mountain, right?

Yeah, a long time.

But it's it's getting is coming together collectively to say this is what we want and we're not going to stand down.

You hear us?

We are.

We are loud.

We are mighty.

Change has to come.

And so I want to be the voice of the community.

And so they give me this position.

Right.

And I said, you know, I've accept this new role, but I'm going to be my authentic self.

And I'm going every time we bring up anything I'm going to like.

So what does the community think about it?

How do you tell people see you coming down the halls?

They're like, oh no, I hope not.

Only they greet me with smiles like she's ready.

She's optimistic.

She's full of energy.

She's got a fire in her belly, and I'm just not going to back down because our community deserves better.

Well, let me turn to your colleague.

Chuck Owen.

One is, corporate responsibility officer for KeyBank and a community relations manager.

So bring me into your perspective on the work that you're doing at key and and how you see the issue of poverty here.

Yeah.

Thank you so much.

I appreciate it.

Do me a favor.

Get a little closer to my closest.

We want we want to hear you all right.

This is better.

Yeah.

That's good.

Thank you.

I think the perspective that I bring here, I actually share a lot of, perspective and views with, Jamal had mentioned earlier, as a corporate responsibility officer and community relations manager for KeyBank.

key bank's purpose is to ensure that the community that we're serving, that they are also just, you know, thriving.

we want to make sure that we help those communities that we serve thrive.

And we go about doing that in a variety of ways.

one of the ways that we do that is through KeyBank Foundation, which, provides grants to nonprofit organizations, charitable and nonprofit organizations that are doing incredible work, such as ABC's The One and So Me sit in this role as a corporate responsibility officer and community relations manager.

I have, the incredible job of getting to talk to Jerome, get him to talk to other community leaders, to just learn and listen about the challenges of the community, the needs and the aspirations of the community and wherever those needs and challenges align with our funding priorities are, we get to leverage KeyBank resources, myself and the market president, Vince Lisi.

We get to leverage KeyBank resources in order to just meet some of those challenges.

Obviously, you know, a financial institution is, you know, can not be a panacea to all that ails the community.

And so one of the things that we also do really, really well is to convene and gather everyone around the table who may have subject matter, subject matter, expertise and particular areas.

in order for us to try to solve for those challenges within, within our community.

So it's an example of, I take the point, it can't be a panacea, but if you're partnering in a way that's effective, what's an example of something that you think he can do or that you would point to this, hey, this is how we're working on actually making a tangible difference.

Yeah, I, I love that question because oftentimes when I talk to our comms folks, they tend to give me a very high level stuff.

And I like to get into the details.

And so as an example of that, you know, Jerome mentioned, the 40% gap in homeownership.

last year we provided a substantial grant to habitat for humanity here in Rochester, Greater Rochester.

and that's to go towards essentially buying down, the mortgage are the costs that are, for a low to moderate income person in order for them to be able to access a home, an affordable home.

and that's just one of our funding priorities, within our neighbors pillar, we also work with nonprofit organizations that are serving, to provide, job training.

So I worked for the development, funding priority is something that we take very seriously in this community, as well as all the other 27 markets that we serve in.

I think it's probably good to just also talk about as far as workforce training is, is is concerned, our recent, support to ABC, for work that includes, you know, green jobs, weatherization programs that will ensure that low to moderate income people who are living in homes that their homes are, you know, insulated sufficiently so that they're not, you know, incurring high, utility bills and also providing folks the opportunity to learn new skills, such as, you know, green jobs.

And I'm sure Jerome can talk a little bit more about that as well.

All right.

So I'm going to have Jerome follow up with that.

And then here's what we're going to do.

We'll get to our only break of the hour coming up in just a second.

It's a fast one.

And then we'll get a lot of feedback and from different realms on the other side.

So on the phone, if you've emailed, if you've sent in a comment, we'll try to get to that coming up here.

Jerome, you know, she's talking about being a good partner, about trying to understand what responsibility looks like and, you know, the listener named Dom wrote in earlier this hour and was asking Doctor Wilson, but really, everybody who's standing in your way, so are you more comfortable at this point saying, all right, key, you're a partner, get in here or I appreciate this, but I don't like the way you did this.

Will you will you meet with the politician and say this is not working or the opposition to this issue?

You've got a couple on here.

Universal basic income, expanding child tax credits.

Why are you not making them permanent?

Is are you more comfortable doing that these days?

Maybe you were never uncomfortable.

No.

Sorry.

Sorry.

I was never uncomfortable.

But at the same time, you know, we don't want to poke people in the eye and then say, work with us.

You know, like you mentioned, relationship building.

That is key.

You know, pun intended, but building relationship with people so that we can talk literally eye to eye, like, you know, looking at each other.

And for me, the one of the first questions is, do we believe that there's a hierarchy of human being in this country, in Rochester?

Tell me more about that.

Most people would say no to that.

In other words, do we believe that some people should have a certain standard of living and other people have a substandard?

You know, most people are going to say no to that.

I don't believe that there should be.

Exactly right.

Okay.

So if we believe that there's no hierarchy of human being, let's talk about making things equitable.

That's where we get into the policy stuff.

That's interesting because you're asking people to about their values.

Yes.

Do you think there should be some here and some here.

And people say, no, most people are going to say no, no.

If they right.

But then you say you look around and says, here's the deal, how do we put that?

Are you okay with the data?

And if you're not okay with the data, that's what are we going to do.

Yeah.

So with respect to politicians and if he was right here I know he'd agree with you.

I refer it to the mayor and the county executive as two of my favorite employees.

They work for us.

Elected officials should.

And like you said it again, should be carrying out a mandate of the people.

And when we look around and specifically talking about Rochester.

But Monroe County too, stuff is not okay.

There a couple lists, I think, World News and World Report was one.

They have Rochester, you know, one of the best cities to live.

And I say for who?

for who again is their hierarchy of human beings.

So in terms of holding people accountable for what people profess as equity, yes, I think that is part of my job, not in a way that is going to chase people away or criticize them, but to hold them accountable and myself as well, so that we can work and do the difficult things that have not been done and commit, I think resetting how we think about politics, the way you describe would be pretty interesting.

a mayoral employee, no offense to a mayor.

a county executive employee.

They work for the be a presidential employee, and they work for the people.

I mean, I don't think I'm saying anything earth shattering, right?

You know, but the mindset, I think sometimes with the way political leaders and I'm not talking about anybody in specific here, but some either wield power or viewed in kind of godlike terms.

Yeah.

We the next month will be seven years.

You know, I was selected as a CEO for ABC and my predecessor and mentor, James Norm.

And he said to me, never forget, you work for this community.

I will never forget that.

And so when we talk about what our community needs in each, each of our organizations, we should be reflecting that in our work and and as you said, that the article is a little spicy, like, yeah, shame on me for not doing it before, you know what I mean.

So it's time, you know, because the people that we serve again collectively around this table, they have more need.

You know, nobody is waking up going, I want to be poor today.

No, but the circumstances that they find themselves in a daunting and they need us and people like us and in to to to advocate on their behalf and to work on their behalf.

All right.

Let's get this only break of the hour.

And ABC would love to see you as part of their, the second part of their virtual conference.

It's Thursday.

It's coming up this Thursday.

And then there and your breakfast is the following Thursday.

And again, all the information will be in our show notes.

We're coming right back to your feedback after this only break of the hour.

Coming up in our second hour, early intervention services are something that thousands of kids in the state need to help them walk better, to help them learn how to talk, to help them deal with challenges that could affect them the rest of their lives.

And Republicans and Democrats seem to agree on this issue.

Yet every year, funding doesn't come through.

Something changes.

Part of our dialog on disability.

Next hour we'll talk about why and what's next.

A new opera imagines two black women politicians competing to become Houston's new mayor of.

Let's hear from some of the creatives trying to change what opera looks and sounds like on the next Morning Edition from NPR news.

This.

Tomorrow morning at five.

This is connections.

I'm Evan Dawson.

Want to remind you, you're if you're listening to the program, you can see the program on the Sky news YouTube channel that is new as of 40 minutes ago.

And we would love for you to join us there.

So, a lot of different ways to access with the program.

And we're going to try to find you wherever you are, and hopefully you can find us as well.

Let me go ahead and grab a couple of phone calls here.

And I think we have Sakra first.

Go ahead.

Are you there?

Bloody hell.

Yeah.

Go ahead.

Oh yes, it's Farrah.

Oh, sorry.

I'm, My comment was toward the, lady that was in charge of the, Rochester Medical Group.

I believe it was Doctor Wilson.

Yes.

yes.

I would like to point out that she's lying about the issues of care that a large issue with care is insurance providers forcing doctors to not provide care so that they can even get patients in the first place.

And the fact that patients are only allowed ten, maybe 20 minutes, tops, with a doctor in a month where they actually have the doctor.

Listen, it is a problem too.

I've been struggling to get any health care as a transgender veteran for five years now, and all the answers are no.

So so sorry, Sharon.

All right, hold it.

Hold on.

One sector, sir, I want to give Doctor Lake here.

Wilson, who is a pediatrician and the vice president of community engagement and social impact at Rochester Regional Health.

Time to respond to some of that.

Go ahead.

Yes, yes.

Thank you very much.

Thank you for your call, Sarah.

I'm sorry that you are experiencing that.

And what you're describing, I think, plagues many of us as physicians.

Yes.

We have benchmarks to meet, schedules to keep, certain amount of time per patient.

But I can speak for myself as a pediatrician, and I've been doing this, I don't know, 15 years plus.

And yes, I have constraints.

A visit may be only 20 minutes and may only be 30 minutes, but I serve some of the most neediest children in Rochester.

And despite having those time constraints, I give my heart and soul to those patients and I go pass that time.

Often I am past my hours.

I have patients waiting for me and they understand the reason they're waiting for me is because I'm making sure I give dedicated time to the patient that was before them, and it is something that many of us as providers are trying to figure out a better system.

And we're moving a lot of the systems are moving to value based care, which will change some of that as well.

And I'm hoping things that will get will get better, especially for you, your family, all your loved ones, and all the children that I serve.

Family abandoned me.

I am so sorry to hear that because I asked for care and the insurance industry was too hard to navigate.

and I and I agree with you because I believe that health care and the insurance is tremendously difficult to navigate.

And that is something else that we as medical providers are charged to improve for the people.

Anything else you want to add, sir, before we let you go, you know, I just said you'll have a good day, and I hope you all figure something out rather quickly.

Sarah, first of all, thanks for the call.

And second of all, much love to you.

I am really sorry to hear about what's going on with your family.

and I, I'm not going to run interference for Doctor Wilson.

You invite tough questions.

Oh, absolutely.

Every day, all day.

And I know you understand her frustration.

Absolutely.

With the system.

And that is why I do what I do.

Yeah.

To make it better, sir.

Thank you.

next up, let me get Michael on the phone.

Hello?

Michael.

Go ahead.

Hello, Evan.

Thank you.

Sure.

most of the discussion about reducing the poverty rate tends to be about policy changes and tax credits and things that help people that are in need today.

And what?

I think there's a piece missing from the poverty puzzle in that.

That poverty is measured in income.

And the reason, primary reason people live in poverty is because they have it.

They're not able to get jobs that will, they where they can earn enough money to live above the poverty rate.

And I think I don't hear people talking about that in a way to reduce the poverty rate long term underlying cause.

And I think what needs to be done is and I've called in before about this and but is to start with kids, pre-K kids today and to have programs in place so that these kids will successfully make it through their school years in graduate from high school, and either go on and graduate from college or get into some kind of, skilled job training so that they have the ability to earn enough money to live a middle class life.

And I think that if it was started with pre-K programs, which they do have in Rochester, and they're quite well attended.

But I think what needs to be done is that with these young kids, age appropriate to teach them when they're young.

A little bit about career and about why it's important for them to do well in school and how it will impact their life, because they can get a better job.

And then and that will motivate them to do well in school.

If the kids if the kids aren't motivated, then they're not going to do well.

So they've got to see a reason for that.

And I think if there were also some kind of a, mentoring programs that were in place, that work with these kids from from kindergarten all the way through, graduating from high school to ensure that they make it through, you know, successfully and, to ensure that they graduate and get jobs.

And I think, well, that doesn't do anything immediately because the step programs like that were put in place today, it's going to be 20, 25 years before you really see the results of that.

But if all the focus is on helping people in need today, there's always going to be people in need today.

And now that's important.

I'm not saying those programs, you know, are important and need to be there, but I'm saying there's a piece missing.

It seems that the you're thinking long term effort.

yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

Well, I'm thinking of trying to to reduce the underlying cause of poverty.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

Which is income.

Michael.

Thank you.

So, there's a lot to know.

I'm.

I'm afraid Michael is wrong with respect to the underlying cause of poverty.

And the only way to measure poverty is income.

I'm sorry, Michael, that is part, access is also very important because there was a time when there was no income, but people had access to things.

he's right.

And, several other things that he mentioned.

And as we said, ABC.

Michael, I will work you've probably hopefully you've heard of headstart and we don't wait till pre-K. We said, oh, work begins when a pregnancy test as positive.

So there's a lot of work because, you know, Evan, I think I've told you this before, you know, there's a data point, you know, that people refer to as childhood poverty.

I think it's a misnomer because children are not poor.

It's their parents who are poor.

Children don't decide any of this.

But that family is experiencing poverty.

Right.

And how the antecedents to that are wide and we don't have enough time to do that.

But income is not the only measure of poverty, access to things.

and resources.

other ways in which, you know, like I said, we don't have time.

But, you know, Michael brought up some important things, and they are, what I will say this and I included an article that when it comes to funding for what we call upstream things like youth development, he mentioned mental mentoring and whatnot.

Those things are not as readily funded as what we call after the fact.

Things like a juvenile detention.

Sure, sure.

Okay.

You know, so when we talk about again back to do we have the will to reallocate resources is a huge thing.

And those are again policy decisions.

Yeah.

So a dynamic between a senior vice president director of community impact at ESL Federal Credit Union.

What do you make of Michael's point about needing mentors ideas that will reach kids and help them see that whatever you think the future looks like now, if it feels bleak, it doesn't have to be, those things going on that those are absolutely happening.

I want to validate Michael's point, particularly the point that if we really want to see solutions to whether be poverty, whether it be racial inequity, we have to look past what's happening in the moment.

That is 100%, true.

And yes, mentoring programs are positive.

Education support.

It's positive.

All of those are helpful and part of the solution.

However, one of the previous question that we were talking about, what is a barrier like why isn't this happening now?

Yeah, I think part of the answer to why this isn't happening now is we again, as right as, you know, partially right.

I think Michael was we have incomplete information around what's really driving the inequality was keep holding people in poverty and not again, we've been focused learning a lot about wealth, which is not income.

It's frankly, for most Americans creates a safety net such that even if we don't have the income, I still get an opportunity, perhaps to own a home because I can inherit it from my parents or my mom or dad could have had a pension union job and they can help me.

As I get started, only some Americans have access to that generational resources, which essentially is the safety net absent a government safety net for our community.

So Michael's absolutely right.

That is more than an immediate peace.

One thing that we found, there's a the Urban Institute's a think tank, with data against hope.

So to get past this misunderstanding, I think we've got to really take time to understand, look at the data that represents these challenges.

We looked at homeownership rate again, this this 40% homeownership, nationally is just a 30% gap if you break that down by income.

So those that are just low to moderate income between black and white households, the homeownership rate among low to moderate income black households is, you know, in the 20s.

And I was trying to pull out the slide.

I don't have it in front of me.

Is in the low, the mid 20s for white households in that same income band, homeownership rate is like 60%.

And if you look at high school graduation, those with high school diploma or less.

In America, for black households, the homeownership rate is like 16% versus nearly 60% for white households.

So it's not yes, education matters.

Yes, the job you get matters.

But the way our society is organize your social capital.

A lot of us get opportunities that we didn't have to pull up from our bootstraps to earn ourselves, and that's appropriate how our community, how society works.

Unfortunately, we don't all have equal access to some of those boosts to help us, really thrive in a society where everybody doesn't have the great job.

but we shouldn't have to live in poverty just because we didn't get 90s all throughout high school and and get the best job possible.

Yeah.

I mean, I've been hosting the show for 12 years.

How did I not figure out that?

I just needed two hours with all of you?

You got you're going to hear the music playing here.

That means how did we get to this hour?

Melted away.

And I guess what that means is, if you want to continue with that conversation, engagement, etc., action for a better community would love for you to be part of their annual conference.

It's a virtual conference, and the next component is Thursday, starting wind in the morning promptly at nine at 9 a.m. Thursday.

All the information is can be in our show notes.

Can't be there next Thursday the 23rd.

They've got their annual breakfast.

They'd love to see you there.

So all the information here and I want to thank Jerome Underwood, president and CEO of action for Better Community.

Thank you for being here.

Thank you, John McIlwain, and nice to see you.

Thank you for being here.

Doctor Lee.

Q Wilson, great having you.

Thank you very much.

And Chuck, on one who's a corporate responsibility officer and community relations manager for KeyBank.

Thank you for being here as well.

Thank you.

We've got more connections coming up in just a moment.

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