>> From WXXI News.

This is Connections.

I'm Evan Dawson.

Our connection this hour is being made in dozens of cities across Iran.

As demonstrators seek to overthrow the ruling theocracy and establish a new Iran centered on human rights.

It's a story we've seen before over the past several decades, and every time the Iranian ruling regime has squashed the protests and retained power this time, many Iranians want to believe it can be different.

As NPR reports, these protests started a couple of weeks ago, primarily over economic desperation, but they have grown into a widespread critique of the ruling clerics and a desire to finally force them out.

President Trump has said that the United States will consider military action if the Iranian state uses violence against the protesters, but that is not an if anymore that is happening.

In fact, a new estimate today shows that nearly 200 Iranian protesters have been killed already today in Tehran, demonstrators chanted death to the dictator and Iranians, raise your voice, shout for your rights!

In response, The New York Times reports that Iran's prosecutor general warned that legal proceedings against rioters and they're calling them rioters, should be without leniency, without mercy or appeasement.

He warned that all criminals involved in the protests would be considered an enemy of God.

A capital offense in Iran.

This hour, we welcome the voices of Iranians who are watching these developments unfold.

My guests include in the studio.

Welcome back to Shahin Monshipour, an Iranian American who's talked to us in the past.

And I don't know how similar the circumstances were in the past.

We'll talk about that.

But it's nice to see you again.

Thank you for being here.

>> Thank you for having me.

>> Across the table.

Let me welcome Dr.

Niaz Abdolrahim, who is associate professor of mechanical engineering at the University of Rochester.

He's welcome.

Thank you for being with us.

>> Thanks for having me.

>> Next to Dr.

Abdul Rahim.

Let me welcome Zahra Edlou, who is refugee health promotion coordinator and senior health case manager for Catholic Catholic Charities, Family and Community Services.

Welcome.

Thank you for being here.

>> Thank you for having us.

>> And on the line.

Let me welcome Dr.

Kayvan Mirhadi, who is chair of medicine at Clifton Springs Hospital.

Dr.

Hadi, thank you for joining us.

>> Thanks for having me.

>> I'm going to start with just right there.

Shaheen, the last time we talked on this program, it probably felt somewhat similar.

Yes.

You expressed a great deal of hope at the time.

Does it feel similar or different this time?

>> In some ways it's similar.

In other ways, it's notch up from the level.

Yes.

not the hope.

>> But the intensity.

>> The intensity is different from last time.

the last time it didn't take this long.

and people were not in the streets for two weeks in a row, and it wasn't quite.

The clashes were not as significant as they are now.

but nonetheless.

I I had some hope last time, but I also, if you remember, I was very much concerned about what will be the outcome and how it would be handled this time.

It's a combination of real anxiety, deep anxiety.

about Iran and deep anxiety about what will follow next.

>> Across the table.

Dr.

Abdul Rahim, what do you see in these protests?

And does it feel perhaps different than past protests?

>> So we have seen these protests for the last like 50 years.

And, this time it's very different.

Like people are chanting in the streets and they are very determined that they want to end the theocratic Islamic regime.

And they want and they're cheering for a democratic and secular free government.

And the thing that is different this time, I say that it's like all across country, it's across different class of people, different cities, big cities, small cities, all people are in the streets and they are all like going for a finishing and ending up the ending.

This, this government.

At the same time, I see, like it's not enough, but international community are gradually and still slowly but supporting the people of Iran at the same time.

On the other hand the government also, I agree, is intensifying clashes and crackdown across the the, the, the people.

But, you know, I think it's happening.

I don't know when, but it's going to happen.

That's what I think.

>> The overthrow of this regime.

>> Exactly.

>> Zahra, what are you seeing?

>> you know, everyone says I agree with all of them, but anytime anything happens is different than the last time.

Like last time, it happens because of the mass.

But this time, people are really under stress because of the economic.

And I remember I was talking to my sister last Tuesday, and she was telling me that if you want to get, like, a 24 eggs, it's going to cost about like a 4 or $5.

>> Make sure you get closer to your microphone.

And your sister in Iran.

>> Yes.

My sister lives in Iran, so I have a large family and most of them lives in Iran.

Tehran.

So this time it's because of the economy.

And then I don't know.

And the more concerned that we are out of your country, have is just making connection with our family.

So, as you mentioned, they announced that 200 deaths.

So I'm not sure how accurate that number is.

So and the the big difference at this time is internet connection.

Last time, when mass movement happened, we didn't have this long not knowing from our families.

>> let me ask Dr.

Mahadi to weigh in.

What do you see this time around?

>> I just, you know, I try to keep it brief, but I'll give you a little background about my position in this whole scenario.

So I do have this Instagram page with around 1.3 million followers and 90% live in the country.

so I get a lot of kind of I have a lot of Connections with people there, and I still get messages even with the blackout.

Not as much as before.

but I want to speak to the gravity of the situation, you know, starting Thursday, when the big protests happened, this kind of shifted from a protest where they're shooting people with pellet guns to military equipment bullets with rifling, headshots.

I talked to doctors in the hospitals that told me 20 to 30 headshots came all at once.

This is on the scene.

overall, it took a turn on Thursday and turned into a mass killing the number of 200 fatalities is an underestimate.

Just gathering information from one second largest city, Mashhad, in in Tehran.

Mashhad was close to 200 between the two hours that I had connection with them.

so extrapolate that to the whole country is going to be way higher than that.

>> So, doctor, let me ask you something.

I want to ask all four of you this question.

You know, you heard Niaz talk about her belief that this is going to happen, whether it's imminent, within days or sometime.

This is going to happen.

Dr.

Mahadi, when you think about the Iranian people at large, what do you think the percentage is?

I mean, this is a hard question to answer, but is it a majority of Iranians who want this revolution or change?

Is it 80%?

Is it almost all?

Is it more of a split?

What do you see there?

>> Again, I can speak about my personal experience because I was involved in NASA and the movement as well.

There were it's way more unified this time, even with the Mahsa Amini movement.

I was getting messages and input from different sides of people that live in Iran with different philosophies about what they want.

You know, do they want Islamic government?

Do they want everyone covering their hair or not?

This time around, everybody is saying, this is a massacre.

They're killing us.

We need help.

And those are the things I can resonate from.

What I hear is that they feel like they're imprisoned in this country and they're mass killing.

They they guards have been giving direction to just shoot.

Like, these are people that go with their families.

It's a protest.

They're not burning tires.

They're not throwing rocks.

They're walking.

And as soon as they go outside, they hear gunshots and they run away.

And people are getting killed.

It's a whole different ball game this time.

>> Zahra, the Iranian state media put out a picture from Tehran of a protest that the media claims was a counter-protest.

It was Iranians who support the regime.

And immediately some of the allegations were, well, those were either posed photographs or paid protesters, et cetera.

Do you have a sense for how strong the support is for this change, for the overthrow of the government this time around?

>> I believe it is very strong.

People are really tired of not being not having freedom, not have a job, not have a, you know, a youth especially.

They don't live their own life.

So an economy pushing people and I believe it's very strong and the government trying to just show that, you know, everything is as normal.

And those people are just making small on protesters and making, like, a big picture on their or their own poor people.

>> If I may intervene.

Go ahead.

Shaheen.

in response to your question about what is how unified Iranians are on this issue of this regime should end, one thing that majority of Iranians agree with is that this regime should end.

The thing that we start seeing differences in opinions and factions in Iran is, how do you want to end it?

And at what price are we willing to make this change?

>> Okay.

Do you want to add to that, Niaz, to how strong do you think the sentiment is against this regime?

>> Again, I think people have tried many times in the past and the, the whole nation, and it's kind of nationwide that the reform inside the current system is not going to work.

And, the chance again, all across the country is basically they're chanting like, this is the last battle.

And the Pahlavi, the previous system will return.

So again, and I think this is happening all across the country, and I agree, and I understand there are still people or there are some like part of the the crowd that are still on the side of the government, but I still think they are like paid people.

They are like, you know, shows that government puts on the television.

Because if it's not, why, why they are basically cutting internet and then basically cutting connection with the rest of the world.

So they're cutting Connections so they can show their own things and their own stories.

This is not what is happening.

>> So yeah, I want to add you to add to the idea of at what price and then what comes next here exactly.

Those are two two separate questions.

So let's start with what comes next here.

Is it simply free and open elections and the determination of the Iranian people?

Is are there individual leaders already clamoring for power to fill the vacuum?

If it happens?

>> let me first address this comment by Nielsen that June is an Indian term.

Of course you can't avoid it.

Niyazi is saying that all across the country.

If I understand you people are shouting for Pahlavi coming back, I must.

I would disagree with that.

There is a increasing number of people in the last week or so who are shouting that chant.

But that is not what majority of people of Iran want.

This was not a protest to bring Pahlavi Crown Prince who lives in Washington, D.C., back to Iran.

This was it started in the bazaar of Tehran.

That historically has been on the side of the Islamic Republic.

Islamization of government for the first time, they are on the opposition and they are majority of people of Iran want to get rid of this regime.

And exactly, to answer your question, when it comes to what to replace it with, we have many different opinions, but three major ones are one faction and small.

I would say a small to medium number with big paid microphones, shout with replacing it with a prior monarchy.

Another larger group of Iranians are saying replace the situation with some kind of referendum.

When people are all levels are heard democratically, have a referendum and see who comes up, and we need someone who would save more than anything else.

It's not just human rights anymore.

That's the difference between the last time and this time.

This time economics plays a big role in this because between the last time we talked and this time economy has been devastated, it's gone worse and worse with American sanctions.

And it is now a real desperate situation that even the Muslim members of Iranian bazaars are up in arms about.

This should change.

So many the big chunk of Iranians want a change.

The third group that I'm very sad to say, there is a number who say, you know what?

And it's out of desperation.

Honestly, they say if these guys go, whoever comes, we will handle it.

But they have no plan because there hasn't been freedom to organize, to have a great guy to show up and say what he would do.

There is no leaders.

This is a homegrown, organic protest.

It is not an organized in any form and shape.

>> Okay.

So do you want to respond to that to go ahead.

>> so basically, like I agree this like, you know, there are many individuals this is like we are talking about 90 million people in Iran.

And of course, there is the differences between people.

And not all people are like, looking for, you know, one opposition.

And there are different, different groups.

and basically people chanting for the previous coming back of the son of the previous Shah is not out of like nostalgia.

It's not like, oh, we want him back.

It's because, like, they, they felt the, the suppression from this, this, this government and they understand that this is also like a personal statement.

But they understand that they have very little choices.

One of them is the Pahlavi the son of the Pahlavi.

And then the I agree that there are many scenarios.

There is a high risk of being like this revolution being hijacked again.

Sure, there are many scenarios, right?

But like this time I see and this chant was never among any chance before.

Like all the other all the other protests, this was not happening.

This is the first time people are requesting for returning of the Pahlavi.

So this is like understanding our options.

And to me, again, this is a personal statement.

But because but this is coming from like talking or hearing many, many voices from inside the Iran that they think the best choice is the Pahlavi, because people are tired of isolation, let alone the, the, the, the economic, let alone the human rights.

People of Iran want to reconnect with the world, right?

This is a this is a this is a program about the Connections, right?

People of Iran want to reconnect with the poor, and they understand with this theocratic, Islamic regime, there is no way there is no future.

And that's why we are we people are looking at their options.

And this is not coming from me, from outside the country.

This is coming from all the people inside the country with very limited access to the to the free world.

>> Do you.

>> Do you agree that there has to be some option for people to vote and have a referendum?

>> Oh yes, of course.

>> And even the, the this person like, Reza Pahlavi.

He's also saying he's not looking for the power.

He's saying he's want.

He wants to help the the transition from the current government to a secular government.

And he is actually welcoming all the opposition to come.

And then, you know, work together for for a free referendum.

So he's not by all means asking for the whole power.

>> Okay.

Zahra, what do you see?

>> So I respect my, you know, my people's opinion.

So I live out of country for more than, like, 20 years.

So whatever people wants.

So I respect it.

So I'm not going to say, okay, people should do this, should do that.

But about Pahlavi my opinion is that ever since he left the country, I, I didn't see any activities from him.

And, and as he mentioned a few times, I'm not sure he's going to be like, a good candidate for the country, especially Iran, with all this happening and all, when you dig, there should be there.

There would be lots of you know, damages that, you know, it needs to be fixed.

So I'm not going to talk about who is good, who is not good.

So I respect my people and I respect their opinion.

And I'm 100% agree that they need to have a referendum.

And don't just go and vote.

on their own billing.

>> Okay?

Dr.

Mahadi.

>> I mean, I agree with everybody.

I think it's very hard to have 90 million people agree on.

For example, one person like Pahlavi to come in and save them.

I think people inside the country, though, they're thinking about what's what's the plan tomorrow, what's the plan next week?

Majority of my Connections in Iran that I talk to, they are saying regardless of Pahlavi or referendum, they're like, we're in the streets.

We need help, you know, especially after Thursday when the crackdown became violent.

You know, I would say thousands of people have died.

They just want help.

They want foreign intervention to come in and help them.

They want international community to recognize and help this.

And this is main reason we're all getting out there to get get that word out, you know.

So I'm you know, I urge the international community to do something for this massacre that just occurred.

>> Well, and so let's talk about what kind of intervention.

So, doctor Mahadi The New York Times talked to Reza Pahlavi just yesterday, and he said that he is very much in favor of the Trump administration following through on what the president said in the last few days, which is military action is on the table.

If protesters are targeted, the United States could target Iran and its regime.

What kind of intervention do you want to see, doctor Mahadi, what would help the people the most?

>> I personally think any intervention will save more lives than no intervention at all, because this is their next.

Their agenda is to shut down the country.

So there's zero communication among the people and the outside world and just go on a mass killing spree.

This is what I hear from inside the country.

They're removing all types of social media satellites on people's roofs, ways to connect to Starlink.

They're coming up with new, innovative ways to prevent that.

And their plan is they've identified people, you know, they've put so much energy into identification of the protesters to go get them.

Doctors are telling me all medical records have been uploaded to the government accessory sites.

They have everybody who showed up with a pellet, pellet, gunshot wound, brute force trauma.

Pharmacists have to register with the government if they want to give out wound care equipment.

For example, a gauze, Vaseline.

These people's national I.D.

numbers are registered, so they're going to go one by one and get these people, throw them in jail, torture them.

So any intervention you can think about is going to be better than them killing their own people in the next few weeks or months.

Coming up.

But yeah, I don't know the exact plan.

I'm not a politician.

I don't know exactly what should us do or another country do, but I think anything would be less fatality than what they're going to do to their own people.

>> Okay, let's get our guests in studio.

Shaheen, I know you want to jump in.

Go ahead.

>> doctor Hardy, are you sure that anything, any help would be better than nothing?

I honestly think, and I know other Iranians who agree with me, that, we are quite a substantial number of people who believe, actually, that Trump's offer to help in the form and shape that he's offering it is counterproductive.

If Trump if people of Iran get their hopes high on Trump, that they lose the battle because first of all, if this guy was caring about people, he reinforced sanctions after sanction until it devastated our economy.

Trump is not a savior.

And what happens is when people like Reza Pahlavi and Trump say, come to the streets, we are backing you.

Some people believe and come to the streets and get killed.

Others would say, no, this is our revolution.

Once you Trump says that the government sees an increase in the number of people.

On Thursday and announces that okay, so you are going you are pro-Trump people in this country and therefore you're the enemy of God and enemy of Islam.

So sentences more people to death as they did immediately after the surge of people in the streets on Thursday and Friday.

I think the kind of help you offer has to be something more thought of than just rhetoric.

Go to the streets, get killed.

We were.

We support you.

How many people did you want to kill?

Mr.

Trump before you offer help?

And what kind of help are you going to offer?

War is on table.

Everything is on table.

And then today he says, we're going to.

We heard from Iran that they are willing to negotiate.

You know what a negotiation between a liar and a liar, harmony and Trump is a disaster for Iran.

I hope they don't negotiate.

>> Okay, let's get Dr.

Mercedes response.

Go ahead doctor Mahathi.

>> You know, at this point, to be honest with you we can for from our view, like sitting outside the country in a, in a country that's free and just, you know, reviewing every tweet or, you know, something that comes out about the politicians, it's is not appropriate.

I think, you know, honestly, we need to treat this like a massacre, a genocide that happened in the country.

And we need to figure out, of course, the when Pallavi said Thursday at 8 p.m., everyone in Tehran should go out.

A lot of people went out, but their their interaction with the Revolutionary Guard was a big surprise.

You know, they did not expect military weapons being used on people.

They did not expect them targeting with snipers as headshots.

People need to protest if they're, you know, with this regime or if they're with Pallavi or they want to start something themselves, but they were also relying on Trump.

Yeah.

He said that we're going to have your back when you go out.

But this was a massacre.

You know, nobody expected this to happen.

And it did.

And thousands of people are dead.

And again, is there something going to happen with the Republicans and Trump?

We don't know.

Right.

It's a very fluid situation.

But I will not kind of sit here and say what is right, what is wrong.

You know, we should should they intervene?

Should Reza Pahlavi go?

I really just want safety of people in Iran.

And I know anybody.

But this government is safer for these people.

Anybody.

>> Let let me ask our guests in the studio if they want to respond as well.

Niyaz, do you want to start?

What do you think?

>> So I agree with what?

K1 said.

so we are talking about mass killing of people just today in New York.

Time at time, actually, a report of more than 6000 death tolls in Iran, which I think I believe personally is much more than that because of like no Connections to to the inside of Iran.

and to be honest, we are talking about like armed violation against people who have nothing in their hands but their lives.

Like, we are talking about.

People go outside to the streets and saying goodbye to their families.

They don't know if they will go back or not.

Right.

So basically, any intervention, any support, international support would help this protest.

Like Iranian people clearly have said that they want end to this.

And basically so I think there there have to be international support to stop this, this mass killing of people.

There is no way they can they can basically you know fight or win this battle across this mass killing and like, like armed forces of the government.

>> I think part of what Shaheen is saying is that she doesn't trust President Trump to do what's right for the Iranian people.

>> Do you?

>> Okay, so I'm not a big fan of President Trump.

I have to agree with that.

But on the other side, we are seeing like, this is this is the reality, right?

So we are saying the current government of Iran is giving the whole country to the other empires in the world, China and Russia.

So all our resources, all our wealth, all our money, everything is just in the pockets of ayatollahs or other countries.

And I agree with what K1 said.

I agree that there is no worse thing, that mass killing of people in the streets, in taking them out of their homes and killing them, right?

So anything, anything I would welcome and people openly requested it from Iran.

Like you can hear those people who had very limited Connections.

They, they, they openly requested help from Trump.

So he's not he's not a savior.

He's not probably the most honest, honest person.

But he has told that he's going to back the people, right back up the people.

He's going to provide support for the people.

And this is about human rights.

This is about human lives, right?

So I, I, I 100% welcome any support from President Trump or any other democratic countries who come to help of the Iranian people who are protesting for their own lives and their own freedom to be to get rid of this theocratic, this violent government.

>> Zahra, what do you think?

>> as you know, everyone mentioned that it's a battle between armed government and armless people.

I'm not saying particular person or country should intervene.

And help my people, but people needs help.

So with armless people, how much they can stand?

I don't know.

So maybe asking like a particular government, like Trump or other government.

I'm not sure it's a good idea or not, but asking help from Red cross from United Nations, this is people's right.

So they have to help our people.

People need some medical equipment, so somebody has to be there.

I need to know what happened to my family.

Last connection I had with my youngest brother.

It was on Thursday at 10 a.m.

He sent a text message to WhatsApp and I replied to him at 1135 and the message is still sitting there.

And it didn't go through.

>> well, I want to take our only break of the hour when we come back here.

We're talking to guests who live and work in our community, but they are from Iran.

They have obviously Connections, family, friends in Iran, and they, like the rest of the world, are watching these demonstrations with great interest, some level of fear, but a lot of hope.

And we're going to talk with them about some of these next steps.

On the other side of this break.

We'll come right back on Connections.

Coming up in our second hour, it is launch day for the new Move to Include podcast series from WXXI.

The first episode is about marriage equality.

Maybe not marriage equality in the way that you think.

Marriage equality in the context of the disability community, where marriage equality still isn't equal.

What is the marriage penalty?

We're going to talk all about it next hour on Connections.

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>> This is Connections.

I'm Evan Dawson Shaheen.

You said that one of the reasons you don't trust President Trump is the sanctions that did a lot of damage to the Iranian people.

>> Sanctions and silence.

So far in response to lack of human rights and a whole bunch of other things in Iran, Iran has it's been in trouble for 40 years.

Where was Mr.

Trump?

>> All right.

But let me hit one specific part of that, because, I mean, I certainly think there's a valid critique right now that says there is some dissonance with the American president saying, hey, if this regime is violent to protesters, we've got your backs.

They've already been violent.

We have exactly.

We have hundreds, if not thousands dead already.

>> Right.

>> And that is really not in dispute.

So it remains to be seen if he's going to follow through with that.

Set that aside for a second.

When you talk about the sanctions, I think to try to steel man the argument from this White House's point of view, what they would say is those sanctions are in place because Iran has behaved badly.

Their ruling regime has behaved badly.

And if the sanctions hurt the people, okay.

But if it leads to revolution, that's a good thing.

>> Hold that.

When we say they they think that Iran, they say Iran has been behaving badly over there.

They lump all of Iran together.

They don't talk about people or the government.

They didn't say the government of Iran is playing badly, and they punish the whole of the country and the people and its economy.

>> But he would say, look, this might lead to the end of the ruling regime.

Is that a good thing?

>> No, it's not because of sanctions.

It is not because of sanctions that the regime, first of all, is as strong as ever, killing people as we speak.

Nothing has happened to the regime.

Regime has become stronger and stronger.

Putting whatever else leftover of economy into its army, into all your GC and all these things.

Regime has not come down.

People's demands have gone up for freedom now, for even money in their pockets.

And that has nothing to do with giving credit to sanctions or effective sanctions.

Have devastated, killed many people over the years.

It's not just the 200 or 6000.

Last week.

So no, I can't I'm not sitting here saying who should do what.

But my impression is I was there when I'm a little bit older than our other participants in this.

I remember the revolution of 57, and at that time, revolution of 78, 79, when we were trying to oust the Shah, one of the major slogans was, nothing could be worse than this.

Shah must go.

Nothing could be worse than this.

We saw how much worse it became.

Now we are using.

There are very similar things going on.

Similar themes of emotions, pure emotions with no insight into the.

>> Do you think that something can be worse than the current regime?

Now.?

>> Of course it could.

>> So you're saying the lesson of history is, is as bad as it is, things can be worse.

>> Of course they could.

Okay, let's get to Iran in a vacuum with divided people.

On one hand, us wanting something out of it.

Look at people, looked at Maduro.

From what I hear, what happened to him and said, oh wow, Trump is right.

Look at.

It didn't take him any time.

Just got that person out, put him in jail in New York City.

He could do the same thing for Khomeini.

No, it's a different case.

And now I like I my wish is that those people who went to the streets that I know of who said, look at what he did to Maduro.

He could do that to Khomeini.

He would think one week later, Mr.

Trump is saying all that oil is mine.

The oil of Venezuela is the first thing he got out of it.

So it could be worse for Venezuelans and it could be worse for Iranians.

They could give all of their oil at the so-called either negotiations or troops or whatever to make Mr.

Trump richer than ever.

>> I know all your co-panelists want to jump in here, Niaz, first.

Go ahead.

Niaz.

>> Thank you.

So yeah, I was born after the revolution and I was not in the streets, at all that time.

But I read the history and I understand the situation.

And we look at the facts.

With all due respect, I don't agree with you, Shaheen.

I think this is the worst.

This is the worst that we are experiencing.

And I think, yeah, like other countries may intervene for their own benefits.

Nobody is like our friends.

They might be our allies, but nobody is our friends.

We have to think about it.

And I think, you know, I even I was listening to your interview with Venezuelan people last week, and it was very interesting.

Like, they, they, they understand the situation, like the U.S.

government may take over their oil, but at the same time that they understand, they understood that it was very interesting that they they were talking the very same language of me and many Iranians in Iran that we think, yes, there is benefit.

There might be more benefit to the U.S.

government.

But with this current government, there is no absolutely zero benefit for the Iranian Iranian people.

There is no single dollar that goes to the pockets of Iranian people.

Yeah, they're currently all the money that Iran is actually exporting.

About 2 million barrels of oil every day.

Where does the money go?

To the pockets of clerics.

Right.

And I don't agree that the government is at the strongest position today.

It's not it.

It actually lost a lot of allies all across the world.

Venezuela, one.

>> Of them, been a failure for them.

>> No., one of them.

And then many terrorism actions that that the, the, the Iranian government was supporting all across the world, they are at the weakest position ever.

So this is the moment for the Iranian people to to take over their freedom.

And again, people understand that there is definitely, definitely benefit for the United States to, to, to, to to work in Iran and take the benefits of the, of the Iranian oil or other wealth in the country.

But they understand that with the current situation, there is absolutely zero no share for the Iranian people.

There might be some in future.

There is hope.

But this this current situation with mass killing of the people and this is the worst case we saw.

I don't think none.

Nothing like this happened in 1979.

In nothing.

This is like not sea level.

This is like genocide, not sea level killing of the people in Iran.

I don't understand when people are when why people are still afraid of the change.

This is the worst.

That's what I think.

>> All right, let's get the other guests in here, too.

I know Zahra wants to jump in.

Go ahead.

Zahra?

>> Yeah.

People are not afraid of the change.

They are on the street.

They want to change.

But when that's going to happen, no one knows about sanction.

Definitely sanction hurt our people more than government.

And if and my question is, if there's a sanction, how this government have access to those like updated like an army, stuff like a BB guns how they get those stuff and about, oil, that's the big issue of our people because of the oil, the revolution happened and our people, we are rich.

We are a very rich country in so many resources, natural resources and oil is the biggest one.

But unfortunately, our people never enjoy that.

You know, wealth comes from the oil.

And I don't agree that, you know, make a deal until like a Trump come and take like a 50% of the oil and just help our people.

and I don't think so.

not every government, if all foreign governments, they think about their own people first, their own power first, and then my people, and if they can just, you know, take over the government, they're not going to our my country, they're not going to come and sit on negotiation and they're going to say, okay, this is the deal.

So I get whatever I want.

If there's a leftover, you can take it.

unfortunately, I don't know what is right, what is wrong, but I don't agree.

Just ask, you know, foreign governments go change their go change my country's government.

We just need some support.

>> Okay, doctor.

Mahadi.

>> I mean, I agree with a lot of things.

Everyone's saying, you know, obviously, military intervention rarely helps any anything in this scenario.

Sanctions hurt ordinary people.

I agree with that.

You know, also the regional backlash with foreign intervention.

But since Thursday, again, like, we have to understand we're in a different environment.

What would you do if a country is just killing its own people?

You know what, at what cost?

Do you just sit there and you start talking about what is the right way to approach this?

Should we have some sort of reform?

Should we have let the people in Iran, they're going and killing thousands of people, and this is going to get worse and worse without any type of information coming out of this country.

What did we do during World War II with Nazi Germany?

Do we just sit there and start talking about, you know, what to do next and who's going to be a great no, you go and help people, you know, when there's massacres, genocides.

We international community has we're all human.

You know, you have an obligation to go in and help.

>> Doctor, how did you do you have any desire to see the United States do to your ruling leadership?

What happened to Maduro?

>> Yes.

Personally, yes.

The what the what I've experienced over the last few days with messages and pictures and videos that were sent to me being done to my own people.

They're they're saying these are terrorists living in their country.

How many millions of terrorists you're going to have that grew up there, that were born there, that are going to school there, your doctors there, your engineers?

Yes, I am, I would be happy to hear that this regime, that the person in charge of this regime is, is gone.

This is the level of hatred that I have at this point.

>> Zahra, do you want to see that?

>> yeah.

I think we all want, you know, that especially the Supreme Leader just just one day they announced and they said he's gone.

So I am, I agree.

>> Okay.

Niyaz.

>> 100%.

I agree with that.

And then I just want to also reiterate that the people of Iran right now, what they don't want President Trump at least, is just not to start restart negotiations with the Iranian government.

That is like basically.

>> You agree with Shaheen on this point that if the President Trump and and the Iranian leadership get together to negotiate.

>>, negotiation.

>> Is just putting all the 90 million people of Iran under the bus, and then just taking over your benefit.

But I 100% agree that any international intervening, especially from the U.S.

government, would really help the Iranian community.

>> Okay.

>> So so Shaheen, that's where you've got some agreement.

You've been a voice of dissent.

In some.

>> Ways I.

>> Agree, but but you do not.

While you want to see this the ayatollah's gone.

>> Yes.

>> You don't think that doing it Maduro style would be helpful?

>> I don't think it's possible.

And I because Iran is not Venezuela, it's a whole set of different variations.

>> Can be very dangerous.

Yeah.

>> And no, that is not a solution.

I think we do have.

It's not out of fear that I would question.

What do you plan?

And I'm not sitting here and saying what should happen as Dr.

Hadi said, as people, as we speak, people are being killed brutally in the streets and it is like a World War II.

It's like a Nazi attack.

I'm not seeing from all these so-called supporting Iran, Europeans, Americans, everybody.

I'm not seeing loads of medical, just humanitarian things going to Iran like Zara is saying, I'm not.

Mr.

Trump is sitting here and is going to go to the streets.

I beg you, show me, how do you back me?

It's been 14 days now.

So many people killed.

We get enough news to know that the hospitals are full.

What are you doing?

Did you lift a finger to do anything?

Or are so-called supporters all around the world?

Supporters of people.

They are full of rhetorics to me, every government, for their own interest.

And sure, their interest comes first to them.

They are offering verbal support.

Who is giving anything?

At least?

I was happy to hear that England was doing some material helped in some ways, but I haven't heard anybody else saying let's help the people.

They just said we will help the people.

>> Nias briefly go ahead.

>> There is no way for help coming from outside the country like humanitarian support coming, and then go straight to the people.

There is no way when the government shut down internet, electricity, how do you expect there is any, any humanitarian support goes through the people?

I don't understand that.

The other thing is, what if, what if what Trump says he's going to do it?

What if if he does it, I would welcome it 100%.

And I think many people inside Iran have openly talked about it, that they would openly request help from a U.S.

And I want to just say that I agree that many democratic countries around the world, including the European countries, they just say words.

They but the words are not enough.

But I think this time, if U.S.

acts on whatever they say, like President Trump, they said, I think this would be helpful.

>> All right.

We got about two minutes left here, and I want to ask a final question to everyone and just offer a very short answer, if you could, 15 to 20s or less here, doctor Mahadi first, do you think this time will lead?

And that is in the weeks or months to come?

Not years, but weeks or months to come to the end of this regime.

Dr.

Mahadi.

>> this time around, I, I hope so, and I do believe that it will.

I just hope that the international community pulls through and helps us get through it.

Yeah.

>> But you do see this being the time it's going to happen.

>> This is I think it's the last straw.

I see every reaction that you see from the regime.

It's showing that their support is minimal.

They know their days are over and it's going to happen soon.

It's just when when is the international community going to step in and help to do it?

>> 30s.

Zahra, what do you think?

>> I have a very high hope.

And I am praying for my people.

but I don't believe it until it happens.

>> You've been in this position before.

Are you able, by the way, to still communicate with your family directly in Iran?

>> No.

After last Thursday?

No.

>> So similar to Venezuela or in some ways similar to Venezuela, in some ways different.

A lot of Venezuelans are, we understand from the conversations, scared to to even text their true feelings for fear of being watched by the government.

But you're just not able to communicate at all.

Okay.

Do you think, Dr.

Abdul Rahim, that this is it.

>> I think I'm also highly hopeful, like I can I'm not.

I cannot say for sure, but I'm highly hopeful that this is this is the moment.

And, I don't know, maybe not.

It's not definitely going to happen tomorrow, but it's going to happen.

And I'm remaining hopeful that it's going to happen in the next few days or months.

This is our moment.

>> Shaheen I think it's going to get not worse before it gets better.

We're going to see more bloodshed and things, but it's definitely the end of this regime is coming sooner or later.

But what will happen next?

I'm not very helpful whether I cannot tell whether I can judge whether it would be chaos because of you.

Just see around this table we have different views on what's best for Iran.

Sure.

So what will follow?

I don't know.

>> I think healthy disagreement in some ways, a lot of agreement.

And it seems that everyone agrees that none of the Iranian voices you heard today want to see the United States and the Iranian leadership get together and negotiate.

They feel like that would be the preservation of the Iranian leadership, to the detriment of the Iranian people.

Other options, wide range of views.

And I want to thank our guests for being here.

Shahin Monshipour doctor Niaz Abdolrahim Zahra Edlou and Dr.

Kayvan Mirhadi, thank you very much for being with us.

Thank you, all of you, for being with us.

>> Thank you for having us.

>> Thank you.

>> Thank you.

We've got more Connections coming up in a moment.

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