>> From WXXI News.

This is Connections.

I'm Evan Dawson.

Our connection this hour was made in cities across the country, including here in Rochester, where federal immigration crackdowns are leading to Ice raids.

New data reported by CBS News yesterday, shows that most of the people detained by the federal government during the recent high profile raids do not have criminal records.

The Trump administration has said that the crackdowns are aimed at unauthorized immigrants with criminal backgrounds.

In response to the reporting of the new data, the Department of Homeland Security has said that 70% of people arrested by Ice since the start of the second Trump administration do have criminal charges or records.

CBS confirms that data is roughly accurate.

The number is around 66%, but the percentage has decreased since April, and many of the people being arrested now do not have records.

CBS reports that those with only civil immigration violations have become the fastest growing group held in Ice detention.

You're hearing percentages in that reporting, but we're going to talk about the human beings represented by those numbers.

Local advocates who work with immigrants say the raids have had devastating consequences for families.

You might have seen videos from this past summer, when advocates and community members confronted I.C.E.

agents on Westminster Road.

That's just one of several local examples of the reactions these raids have generated.

Meanwhile, some advocates say that most community members still don't have a good understanding of the current environment.

And they say you can learn a lot during a screening of a film coming up on Monday at the Dryden Theater.

And we're going to talk about the film.

We're going to talk about the issue and some of the related issues with our guests this hour.

And Heidi Ostertag is back with us, executive producer of Running to Stand Still.

And we have a lot to talk about when it comes to the film.

The next film that's rolling out here.

Welcome back to the program.

>> Very nice to be here.

Thank you.

>> Next to Heidi is Kit Miller, who is director emeritus of the Gandhi Institute of Nonviolence.

And Kit here, just representing herself as part of a group that is calling on the county to make some changes to its behavior.

Welcome back to the program.

Thanks for being here.

>> Thanks a lot.

>> Across the table.

Let's welcome Daisy Ruiz Marin, who's director of Migrant services for Ibero-American Action League.

Welcome back.

Daisy, thank you for being here.

>> Thank you so much for having me again.

>> And Maria Garcia program director for is it Enlace Services, Inc.. And I should know that of course.

Por supuesto.

Welcome.

Thank you for being here.

>> Thank you so much.

>> So there is an event happening on Monday from 7 to 930 at the drive in theater at the George Eastman Museum.

The screening of Running to Stand Still is happening, followed by the premiere of a short film designed to address the current realities.

And I'm going to have Heidi tell us a little bit about what you want people to know about Monday.

So the floor is yours.

>> Thank you.

over the last several months, we've done a soft launch of Running to Stand Still in various communities in the region, and the idea came after I was doing some Q&A's with folks who, just at the end of seeing Running to Stand Still, which focuses on the humanity of who these people are that are trying to seek a better life here in the U.S.

there seemed to be confusion from the audience.

why are we a sanctuary city?

What can we do to help?

they weren't seeing a lot of what actually was going on behind the scenes because it wasn't being covered.

So I thought about doing a town hall meeting and then the idea with at worldwide with Bob the director was, we really need to update Running to Stand Still to reflect what the current policies, how they're affecting communities and immigrants currently in this country.

then we combined the two and said, let's do a premiere of this new, updated version along with the town hall, and invite leaders from the community, including the mayor or city council folks advocates in Rochester as well, working on the front lines and allow the community hopefully we'll have a full house of 500 folks to be there to ask questions and to learn more about how they can get involved in this very important year.

Coming up of the midterm elections to help bring about humane immigration reform.

>> So I want to mention a couple things about Monday so our listeners understand worldwide documentaries turns 40 this year and been doing these kind of telling these kind of stories around the world for, for decades now.

And this has been the focus for a number of recent years, leading to running to stand still and now leading to, as you say, further work telling these stories in communities like Rochester.

What's happening on Monday will include Mayor Evans making introductory remarks.

There will be a panel with members of Rochester City Council Irene Sanchez from Enlace will be there.

Jim Morris from Catholic Charities, Family and Community Service will be there, and it is a chance for the community to come together at a free event.

But registration is required in advance.

>> Yes, that's correct.

And the other thing I do want to mention is because of family emergencies, our editor was working on the update with us, had to step away from the project.

So what we will be showing on Monday is the original version of Running to Stand Still, which still obviously is important to to talk about who these folks are.

But Irene Sanchez and I were talking one night and she said, you know, the community really doesn't know what's going on behind the scenes here on, you know, on this issue.

And we really need an advocacy tool.

So rather than cancel the event because the updated version is not going to be ready until after the first of the year, it will be ready at some point.

I talked to Bob and we did a quick pivot.

In three weeks.

We've put together, I think, what's going to be a really impactful five minute short film about what's going on locally, what how you can get involved.

what advocacy organizations need help with.

And we're also going to give away the link to the film, to the short film when when they come for me, to all the attendees and also to all the agencies, churches, schools at no cost.

We're hoping to get underwriting to, to do that, but we're going to go ahead and supply the link at the event on Monday.

>> what time do you get started on Monday?

It starts at 7 p.m.

at the Dryden.

Okay.

And we're going to have a link as well in our show notes.

If listeners want to access the podcast page later today for Connections, if you want to find a link so you can register and be part of the audience and join the conversation.

thank you.

They would love to see you there.

I know they would.

so let me let me ask you one more question then I would like to ask all of our guests, kind of, for some some general thoughts about the current climate here.

So if I would have talked to you in January, Heidi, knowing, you know, what you expected to happen.

And now we're sitting here almost a year later, are we seeing what you expected?

Is it worse in your own view?

Is it different?

>> It's very much worse.

I mean.

>> In what way?

>> They are.

The administration is the immigration policies are policies of fear.

they are violating due process.

Human rights.

the list goes on and on.

But it is.

yeah.

There's just so many things.

They're firing judges, they're forcing judges.

We have we don't have enough immigration judges in this country to begin with.

And just recently, a new stat came out that there's 100 judges that have been pushed out.

everybody that I've talked to who works on this issue thinks it's going to get worse before it gets better.

And look at what happened with the tragic shooting of the National Guard guards in Washington, you can see the irrational response from the government that is just sweeping.

>> you know, a recourse against every immigrant in this country who's applying for asylum.

the xenophobia, what's happening in Minnesota against Somalis.

I mean, where's our moral compass?

Who are we?

>> Well, here's something that maybe you didn't expect.

in some ways, your assessment that it is worse than you expected is a view shared by Joe Rogan and some of his remarks recently have have kind of made the rounds among some of the folks who supported this administration wanted Donald Trump to be reelected.

Rogan, of course, was in that camp.

But I want to listen to some of what he said about what we are seeing with ice across the country in events like we saw in Westminster Road, but also, of course, in countless cities.

Let's listen.

>> Let's just talk about the immigration thing.

The way it looks is horrific when you're just arresting people in front of their kids and just normal, regular people that have been here for 20 years.

Yeah, that everybody who has a heart can't get along with that.

No.

Everybody who has a heart sees that and goes, that can't be right.

That can't be right.

That can't be the only way to do this right.

Because you have to think, look, yeah, we have to have a border.

Yes.

It should have been secure.

Yes.

They should make sure you know who everybody is before they get in.

Yeah.

But when people been here for 20 years, like, come on, come on.

That's crazy.

Yeah.

Let's find a way.

If they've been productive members of society for 20 years, no criminal record.

They work the entire time.

They paid taxes, find them a pathway to citizenship, find a way where you can do this thing that you want to do, which is keep terrorists and cartel members from getting across the border with drugs that kill 100,000 people a year.

Okay.

But also have in heart.

Because if you don't, you're not going to get anybody on your side.

If you're doing this stuff publicly, throwing women to the ground, handcuffing people just for existing on the wrong side of the dirt.

Yeah, not a criminal.

Not the only crime they ever committed was coming over here as a kid.

Yeah, they probably didn't even know what was going on.

>> Yeah.

Yeah, man.

>> You know, a lot of kids got snuck across when they were already born in Mexico, and they've grown up their entire life in America.

They can't even speak Spanish.

>> That's Joe Rogan just a few weeks ago.

Again, I don't know that you agree with everything you heard there, but are you surprised at some of that?

>> Heidi I was surprised, but I was so, so grateful because this is a human issue.

These are human beings.

And for for Joe Rogan, who has taken the positions that he has he has a right to vote for and support who he likes.

But like family separation in the first Trump administration, where the American people, even the staunchest conservatives came out and said, okay, you've gone too far.

We don't rip kids from from their parents.

And he was the government was forced to retreat on that.

What I'm hoping is that this is going to happen in 2026, especially at the midterm elections, and we're going to vote in people that will support humane immigration reform.

You know, we don't provide the process for people to they want to they want to apply legally, but we don't provide the policies to do that.

And this is not rocket science.

It's just political will.

And those are the folks that need to be voted in.

>> So let's go around the table here.

Daisy Ruiz Marin, we talked I don't remember the last time we talked, maybe about a year ago, something like that.

It's been a while.

And part of what you do is understand the need in our community of people and families who need services and try to make sure that they're provided.

What's this year been like?

>> Well, it has been definitely challenging.

we've had the program for the last two years, and with the new administration coming in, we have seen all the changes in the policies.

Right?

We've really been working hard on making sure that we have all the information up to date that we're providing the families with the resources needed.

We started our year off with the Know Your Rights training, and we did not advertise the Know Your Rights training again, because we had that fear of the increased Ice activity, and we didn't want to put any of our families in danger.

we have also worked with local agencies to connect them with family preparedness, because I think that that is such an important topic.

We have seen some of our families that have been detained.

and that is why it's so important for the families to have a plan in case that, God forbid, another individual of their family is detained.

What happens with their children?

>> Is it your knowledge that there are families who are not leaving their house because of concern?

>> Oh, absolutely.

I can tell you in the last three weeks I've had three families that have left Rochester that they did not leave their houses in fear, because they have seen their friends being detained.

and obviously taken over to Batavia's detention center.

We have seen them that there has been rates near their employment.

So they have informed us that they haven't left their house in over a week.

And after that, they actually decide to relocate their families elsewhere.

>> Okay.

and so what what do you expect to happen next year?

Do you expect this to be the climate for the next several years?

Do you expect any changes?

>> I would hope that there is some change.

Right.

I definitely think that if we continue to advocate for our families that we can possibly see a change for them.

I think that is why it's so important for everyone around the table to continue speaking up.

because we're the only ones that can provide the stories of the families that we serve.

>> Let me ask Maria Garcia for your thoughts on what we are seeing, and tell us a little bit about in-laws and what you want our listeners to know about that.

>> Yeah.

So aside from me being a program director, I'm also a DOJ accredited rep.

So I do most of the legal work for in Las and we're seeing a lot it starts from just people being fearful, as Daisy mentioned, not wanting to leave their homes.

kids not going to school.

We have gotten numerous calls from the district asking for support because they want the kids in school, but the kids are just afraid that they'll go to school and parents will be picked up if they're not home.

so just a unfortunate reality that we have to face.

So we do do family preparedness, which is when we are more proactive and we talk to the families about what the possibilities and what kind of things you want to do so that you make sure we have a plan for the minor children in the home, what kind of reunification you want.

So travel permissions.

So if the children if the parents are deported, how the children can get back to their home so that they stay reunited.

we do outreach.

So we work a lot with the farmworker and migrant communities in the rural areas.

So when we're out there, we see a lot and, you know, working with farmworkers, these were people that were essential during COVID.

And now these are the people that are they're coming after so farm farmers and farmworkers are all seeing such high rates.

And it's just the environment is not safe anymore.

So they're also secluding even more.

Whereas it was already hard enough to get to them, now it's even harder.

They don't open their doors, they don't talk to anyone.

So we don't know what's really going on in these homes.

and then we also have our anti-trafficking labor program, which right now we're going to see a rise in this.

This is going to be part of the problem.

People are not going to come forward with criminal or victim needs because they're just so afraid to even say anything that this is going to become the new norm.

so getting them support in those areas is going to be nearly impossible.

It's a lot.

>> Were you out at Westminster this summer.

>> When.

>> Yes, that was I.

>> Okay.

>> I mean, it turned out it was you at first and then it was a couple hundred of your closest friends, I think.

>> Oh.

something like that.

Something like that.

>> It was a block party, I guess.

Yeah.

>> For listeners who don't know that story, can you describe what happened?

>> Sorry.

>> So we received a call from one of our friends, our colleagues, and they said, hey, we need support at Westminster.

There's roofers, I.S.I.S.

present.

They're trying to get them.

you know, they were just doing their job.

They don't have warrants.

so me and my team mate Kenny, we went out.

Irene was at another event, so we went out.

I always have things in my vehicle ready to go.

I always have my paperwork ready to go, because, again, I feel like I've had to prepare myself to be reactive.

And in these situations.

so when we got there, there was about, let's say, 35, 40 people, more or less ice was there, Border Patrol?

Was there.

DHS was there.

So I'm like, okay, how many are we looking at?

Like, it almost felt like a like a tactical thing.

It was almost like I didn't even know what was happening.

So my first question was, where are the workers?

Are they okay?

And no one could tell me that.

Everyone was just so hyper focused on, you know, are I.S.I.S.

here?

And I'm like, okay, that's not what I want to know.

These are humans.

Do they have water?

They're on the roof.

It was sunny.

It was beautiful day.

I'm like is anyone bringing them water?

So I asked for forgiveness and I said, I'm just going to go.

I brought my paperwork with me.

I asked if they had attorneys.

They did not.

I gave them my representation form.

I chatted with them.

I, I was kind of coordinating from up there with my colleague down there.

Everyone else was.

>> Did you get.

on the roof?

I did.

>> You got up on.

>> The roof?

>> I sure did.

so I got up there, I brought them water.

We talked.

I kind of got a basis of what was going on.

and then I went down, and I don't want to say confront, because that's not the right word, but I definitely, you know, stood my ground with ice in them and asked the three questions.

Do you have a warrant for them.

>> For the.

>> What was.

>> The answer?

>> They didn't answer.

They remained silent, so I asked, I said, well, call your supervisor.

And you know, that video is somewhere around.

I'm sure Heidi knows where it is.

>> It's going to be in the film.

>> Oh my God.

>> So yeah, it was just again and I appreciate the volume that it has gotten TikTok growth.

because again, those those questions need to be asked.

They did not have a warrant for them, the property or the or the the company that they were working for.

So it was extremely important because I think as much as we're seeing, we still need to ask those questions.

>> What would have happened if they said, yep, here's the warrant.

We've got it right here.

>> So I would verify its contents.

So I think what most people need to one of the things we teach in Know Your Rights is the difference between a judicial order and a administrative warrant.

So if you go to court for immigration, you see this administrative warrant.

It says on the top warrant for alien arrest.

But that just is an administrative order.

It just says, hey, you're ordered deported from the country.

You got to go kind of thing.

That's not a judicial order.

That's not a judge saying you have to leave.

That's an administrative officer saying you have to leave.

But a judicial order is signed by a judge and it has its definitions in it.

It says this is for search and seizure of the property, of the business of the person.

So I would need to see that.

I would need to know that that's one of the people up on the roof, that this is the business that you're going after, or this property address that the roof is being done on, that you are here.

and things like that.

So none of that was presented.

So I knew that they didn't have it.

And again, they were there was just a lot of technical things that they were doing wrong.

So it kind of gave that.

It gave me the, the confidence to be a little bit more assertive in that situation.

so it just worked out.

>> Though.

>> And is it your experience that often they don't have that kind of documentation?

>> Yes.

>> Okay.

So it's interesting, they're looking for papers, but you're looking for their papers.

>> That part.

Okay.

>> Okay.

if they did have that documentation then what happens?

>> So if they had a proper judicial warrant, we would have to step aside, but we would do so while still recording, you know, making sure that that was that their fifth and their due process rights were the Fifth Amendment and Fourth Amendment rights were still protected against search and seizure has its limits.

I think people, you know, sometimes think that that means everything.

No, it does not.

What is the warrant say it can do you know, but also making sure that they're treated humane.

There's no reason to savagely just rip them off of somewhere and throw them on the ground if they have no weapons, if they have nothing and they come with their hands up, just, you know, arrest them, put them in the back of the vehicle, be calm.

But the aggression that we're seeing right now is part of the problem.

>> Were you worried they were going to pull these guys off the roof?

>> They tried.

>> Yeah.

Before I got there, they had tried.

>> One of the officers slipped.

>> Someone could kill an officer, could get killed.

>> Absolutely.

>> Anybody could get killed.

>> In that.

>> Absolutely.

So they did try and climb the ladder.

but one of the officers, I guess he had too much too much gear on, and he couldn't make it up the stairs.

So they retreated that they they didn't go up there anymore.

But, see, even I had the common respect to ask the homeowner, can I climb on your roof?

I didn't just go up there just without permission.

I went to the homeowner.

I spoke to the contractor.

I said, can I speak to your workers?

Can I?

So again, this is all about human dignity and making sure that, you know, I did things right.

And that was one of the things that, again, I just assume I'm Ice or CBP.

I'm just going to do what I want to do and go up there.

I can't do that.

>> I want to respect their privacy.

But I know listeners are wondering, do you know if the the guys are okay?

>> So definitely one of them is currently working on immigration relief right now.

So happy to say that another one has voluntarily decided to self-deport.

>> Okay.

And again, I think this administration might say, see, then we're doing the right thing because if they're self-deporting, then we're reducing the numbers and we should see more self-deportation.

They've said that.

>> Of course.

>> So what do you.

>> Think?

>> I think that they're going to regret that decision later, because again, these are people who are taxpaying people.

Like they make a lot of money into our taxes.

And these are communities that bring in good wealth.

I mean, Rochester alone has significant amount of money coming in from migrant workers, farm workers.

Again, the food that we eat, the things, the works, the jobs that no one wants to do, these are the communities.

So when people are thinking about, like going on vacation, who's going to clean that hotel room?

Who's going to build those new condos, who's going to these are this is going to be a very huge impact.

And I just think that like I said, they were essential ones.

They're going to be there, continue to be essential.

It's just they're not painting that picture right now.

>> Maria, I appreciate I think the background that you're sharing with listeners so they understand how to know your rights.

That's been a big part of the campaign.

People want to learn more.

What would you tell them to do?

>> Visit our website at New York Court of Claims.

We offer Know Your Rights presentations, family preparedness clinics and things like that.

We coordinate with churches, schools, any kind of community we use.

Our partner agencies like Ibero just cause legal aid.

We we partner with all of them to make sure that it's a community effort.

So even if I'm not available, we make sure someone is so we can get out there.

>> Well, I want to ask Kit Miller for your thoughts, kit on maybe, maybe one piece of what you think people in the community can do.

And again, I'm as a journalist, we're just having a conversation with people who are advocating it's not my job to advocate.

I know there are listeners who might feel a little helpless or might feel like, is there something I can do?

Kit reached out this week with an idea.

And what is it?

Kit.

>> Can I just first say how wonderful it is to sit here and look at these amazing human beings who are doing this work?

I was one of the crowd at Westminster, and it was quite a remarkable day, and a friend of mine who's on the front lines in Los Angeles, in a neighborhood that's been severely impacted by Ice raids, said we all were doing our regular get together and we talked about Rochester.

>> That became a national story.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah, it was fun to hear.

It's.

Yeah.

So just a lot of gratitude for everybody and and yeah, the know your rights, you know going to those trainings has been wonderful.

I partly because of everything going on.

You know, what I find is when I, I care a lot about something and I don't know what to do with it.

It just becomes like, kind of poison in my system.

So for me, like, when I care, I've got to do something.

And so one of the things that I've been involved with is the ground campaign which is a group of local activists who are working to make sure that the Avelo Airlines, which is currently operating out of the Frederick Douglass International Airport loses its license to do business in our community.

>> Lowe''s.

Avelo.

>> That's right.

Yep, yep.

And the campaign is called ground Avelo Avelo.

it's one of the only commercial airlines in the U.S.

that's contracting with Ice to operate charter deportation flights.

their flights taking place without public oversight, with no guarantee that the people on board have legal counsel or due process.

They're in violation of their own agreements with their labor, with their flight attendants.

I've got a letter sitting here in front of me.

with from the president of that flight attendants union saying that the that the conditions on the flights that the workers have grave concerns about safety, that they're not following FAA safety requirements, that so, like, there's so many reasons why what Avila is doing is wrong.

And so we are very involved in helping to bring to the attention of the county legislature and especially to Adam Bello, who is a real decision maker on this that we won't stand for having basically an, an airline that's engaging in de facto human trafficking, coming out of an airport that's named for the most prominent abolitionist in United States history.

I mean, we decided five years ago to call our airport after Frederick Douglass.

If that doesn't mean something, you know what?

What can we possibly do?

So we've got lots of strategies for getting people involved.

And I want to say that, you know, we've got a bunch of events coming up in relation to human rights.

You know, we've got, a signing tomorrow morning of between a mayor Evans and Adam Bello, you know, like, like acknowledging Human Rights Week coming up.

The film's coming, happening Monday night.

There's lots of events.

There's an event at the Islamic Center next week.

So I hope people will decide to come to one or more of these events.

And the ground of yellow people will be at all of these, and we're we're really pushing to make this happen.

and again, you know, you the contract with Avello started at the Rochester airport before they had this contract with Ice.

So we are with well within our rights to end that contract.

We we can do that.

And there's no reason not to have our leaders do the right thing.

Now.

And that contract Batavia is the largest holding center in the state for people who are being picked up and detained by Ice.

it's well over capacity.

It's a 650 bed capacity.

It's well over capacity.

There are reports now coming out of medical neglect and other things.

This is the deadliest year in U.S.

history for people who are in I.S.I.S.

custody.

It's just a question of time before we start hearing about wrongful deaths.

Batavia is 50 minutes away from our airport, so we need to do something about this.

>> So let me ask you a few things there, Kit, just for your thoughts about Avello here.

NPR reported on this story back in April.

Avello announcing a contract to begin operating deportation flights for Ice and the CEO of Avello told NPR earlier this year that this was about money.

Now, his point to NPR was it wasn't about getting rich, it was about staying in business and keeping people employed.

So here's what he said.

He said, quote, we realize this is a sensitive, sensitive and complicated topic.

After significant deliberations, we determined this charter flying will provide us with the stability to continue expanding our core scheduled passenger service and keep our more than 1100 crew members employed.

That's what the CEO and founder of Avello, Andrew Levy, told NPR.

So does that move you at all?

He's saying, look, I don't want to lay off 1100 people.

We're not doing well financially.

This is going to allow us to keep people at work.

>> Well, he's keeping people at work who are saying that they're their own labor rights as workers are being violated.

So the workers that avello are complaining they were supposed to be given the option of whether or not to participate in the flights, and they're not being given that option.

And think about what it will be like for people in our own airport.

If Avello starts using and deporting people from Batavia out of the Rochester airport and people are in our own who work in our own airports are going to have the grave moral harm of watching people who are sick and shackled walk through our airport to get on a flight.

so this is a great opportunity for people who care, if we care about what's happening here, this is one way we can do something that could even impact what's happening nationally.

Because if we can make something happen here we can help to create a ripple effect in other communities.

>> The other point I would make is we did reach out to the county executive's office.

We offered them a chance to maybe send a statement or have a representative on this program today just to kind of talk about this particular issue.

Thank you.

They declined that opportunity, which is certainly their right.

And I can't speak for their office.

I think what they might say, Kit, is that they are sympathetic to arguments, but they don't want to police individual businesses.

That that is not a good practice for county government to do.

That could be a slippery slope.

And that they think there might be other means to try to win the day with something like a villa, as opposed to the county trying to police business operations.

What do you think?

>> Avello is at our airport under contract with our county.

they get state money on fuel subsidies.

So that's our tax dollars at work.

so I understand that that general principle and these are not ordinary times.

>> so let's do this here.

I've got a pile of emails, and I haven't even mentioned that listeners, if you'd like to join the conversation, you can email the program Connections at wxxi.org.

You can call us toll free at 844295 talk.

It's 8442958255263 WXXI.

If you're in Rochester, 2639994.

If you're watching on YouTube, you can join the chat there.

We got to take our only break of the hour, and I want to get as much feedback as we can on the other side of this.

Only break.

I'm Evan Dawson Friday on the next Connections.

My guest is Kamau Bell, a television host, a comedian, a very smart and provocative thinker, and we're going to talk about all kinds of issues with Kamau Bell.

We're going to talk about how we communicate.

We're going to talk about free expression, the state of comedy activism, and a lot more.

Kamau Bell joining us Friday on the program.

>> Support for your public radio station comes from our members and from more Fire Glass Studio in Rochester, where molten glass meets imagination, offering a view into the art of glassblowing with demonstrations and artisan pop ups.

This holiday season, handcrafted gifts are available in the gallery and online at Maria Garcia.

>> Com this is Connections.

I'm Evan Dawson.

Greg wants to know if there is evidence that the Trump administration is correct in saying that they have sealed the border, and I'm going to ask Daisy Ruiz Marin a little bit about this, because when we talked a year ago, we talked about the amount of families you were seeing on an annual basis, including children and families who had crossed the southern border.

And so Greg just wants to know if that has stopped, if we are essentially not seeing anybody in our community showing up, having crossed the southern border.

>> So I guess I will speak more about the mRAP program, which is a program that I run.

we have stopped relocating families as of June, mid-June.

we received information from Otda that we would stop relocating the families.

We really have worked our contract of the two years, and we're following those families for the additional year of the program.

I could just say that that is what we are seeing here in Monroe County, that we continue to work with the families throughout the program and that we had stopped relocating from the New York City shelter systems.

That doesn't mean that they're not arriving to New York City still.

But here in Monroe County, we have stopped relocating as of the mid of the year.

>> Okay.

do you think the claim that the border is now sealed is is accurate?

>> I unless I go there and see it myself, I don't I don't believe so.

I do think that there has been a decrease of the families arriving, but, I wouldn't be positive.

>> About that.

Yeah.

From what we're hearing from our colleagues in El Paso is the shelters along the border are basically empty, like in Juarez and Matamoros and so on.

in Reynosa, they're now getting the deportees that they're having to try to help and figure out, you know, where they're going to go.

And many of them have humanitarian needs.

So I think, like Daisy said, of course there's always going to be somebody or a family or whatever that's able to somehow get across.

But basically in this country, you guys tell me if I'm wrong.

There is no resettlement program in this country right now and the border is closed.

There is no asylum.

>> Well, asylum is still proceeding.

So the policy memorandum that came out two days ago from the USCIS or was pretty much saying that they are no longer doing affirmative asylums, which means if you're petitioning through USCIS, that's been on pause.

But the asylum that's happening in the court is still proceeding.

But to your earlier comment, I mean, they just fired seven judges last week in New York City and Batavia.

There's only two.

And in Buffalo now there's only two because the other two retired or so you know, retired.

so the reality is this is going to create an immense backlog.

>> okay.

>> So I appreciate Greg's email, and I don't know if Greg, what the intention or the tone was per se, but I will say this there's not a whole lot of people in American politics on the political right or the political left.

There's some perhaps, but there's still plenty of Democrats who will now say, you know, we we do need reform.

that the status quo wasn't working either.

>> Totally.

>> And so I think I think it would be valuable to hear what our guests here think, that maybe that would look like in a if we're going to reshape this, obviously, what you're all seeing now is not what you want to see.

But there are plenty of people who will hear what Heidi just mentioned about the border, about the shelters of the border and say, well, that's a win.

Now we've sealed it.

And at least the administration did that.

So if you don't feel like that, then what is the right kind of reform?

What do you want to see, Heidi.

>> Well, we interviewed, a former Border Patrol agent, and he made for our film Running to Stand Still.

And you'll hear him.

he said that every country needs and deserves secure borders, right?

No question.

But humane immigration reform and secure borders don't have to fight one another.

You can.

You can make both of those things happen.

It's about political will.

we we need to provide.

And let me back up.

Seeking asylum is is is a right.

>> Absolutely.

>> In the in people coming to our border.

You have the right to seek asylum here in the United States.

But right now, that process seems to be halted.

>> Yeah.

>> So related to that, Maria Garcia is one of the reforms you want to see.

Do we need a lot more in the way to expedite asylum claims?

border cases?

Do we need more judges?

I mean, what does the system need and what reforms would you want to see?

>> It needs a complete reform.

There's just no way to put it.

I mean, I can sit here for hours and talk about it, but the short and sweet version would be number one.

We need to legalize a pathway for DACA that needs to happen.

These are children who were brought here against their will.

As minor children.

We need to find ways.

As Joe Rogan said, people have been here for 20 years doing nothing, have no criminal history, paying their taxes.

Yes, maybe a waiver.

I know that there was a bill presented, I think, in Arizona by one of the legislators where she was like, you know, let's penalize they have to pay into the system, almost like a fine for three years.

And once they've paid that, we'll allow them to apply for a green card, kind of like a more legalized pathway.

The other thing is asylum.

Yes, I understand that it not the merits to find asylum have become so difficult.

I think asylum in the U.S.

to be granted is absolutely one of the most astronomical things I've ever seen.

I think that we actually need to reform that to include more like right now.

They're also eliminating certain things almost like gender based violence.

So like, women are no longer even protected under asylum.

So I think we need to have bigger conversations.

The other thing is, is, you know, these expenses we haven't even touched that, which is the insane amount of fees.

Now to apply where before asylum was free.

Now you have to pay $100 a year for every year your case is pending.

If you're firing judges and you have these cases pending, these people could be paying thousands of dollars.

Thousands while they wait their chance to fight in court.

so we need to, you know, talk about those fees again.

If these people are they come here to work most of the time, if they're willing to contribute to society, we just need to find a healthy way to do that.

Absolutely.

I'm still all for the criminal background checks, though thorough.

I'm completely with that.

and, you know, again, negotiating with our countries in a more what's the word, humane way, you know, not turning away every country because you don't like them or they said something bad about you, but because these are countries that we need alliances with.

So, you know, if they do have to be deported back, doing it in a humane way, not chained up in cages or freezing in a box.

yeah.

>> Governance with policy, not Ponzi schemes.

>> Yes.

>> Thank you.

>> Okay.

>> And don't deport deportation by fear.

>> Daisy, do you want to add to that?

>> I think I mirror a lot when my colleagues have said I actually had a personal situation that happened last month.

I had a family member who has been here in the country for over 20 years, has been paying his taxes, is doing things the right way, has three U.S.

born children.

He was detained last month and he was moved pretty quickly from state to state.

and just hearing the inhumane conditions that are in these detention centers, it really breaks my heart.

And I am really hoping that there is a way for individuals like my family member who has been contributing to the community and to the government to find that pathway to citizenship.

I have a cousin as well, another family member who is a DACA recipient.

Being able to find that that pathway for for him as well.

we need to be able to advocate for them.

We need to be able to if they are doing things the right way, find a way for them to be able to to stay here legally in the country.

We we definitely are able to benefit a lot from these individuals.

>> Your family member who was detained how are they doing?

>> They're still currently in detention.

again, right now we are going through a process.

he has been doing things the right way, and hopefully this is something that will benefit him.

So he is currently waiting for his hearing.

>> What do you expect to happen?

>> Well, I have a lot of faith in the attorney that he currently has.

I have been in contact with his son, who is currently a full time student at a college.

and I was hoping I'm trying to be there as a support to them.

just knowing I was my first college graduate in my family.

So I want to make sure that he doesn't lose his focus on his studies, even though he is currently going through that process with his father.

So we're really hopeful that we have enough of evidence to show that my family member deserves an opportunity to continue in this country and continue continue contributing.

>> Kit, anything you want to add to what you want to say?

>> Thank you.

I'm just I'm just like listening and thinking about the human costs of this.

And also the cost to our budget.

You know, like the tens of millions of dollars being spent to oppress people and tens of thousands of people who are sitting, not having the opportunity to be productive, not being able to retain their jobs, not being able to pay their mortgages, not being able to take care of their children.

I just keep thinking about, you know, we're supposed to be, you know, taught liberty and justice for all.

We sing the national anthem at the beginning of all the sports games.

I just am desperate to live in a country that begins to live up to what it says it is.

>> Let me continue with some feedback and I'll get a phone call here from.

I think this is Diana in Pittsford.

Hi, Diana.

Go ahead.

>> Hi.

I just wanted to say I'm kind of disappointed that the group that you have on does not include a Ukrainian or a Turkish person, because these people are also being deported or self-deporting.

I'll give you a quick instance.

One was a dental student here.

He had became a dentist in the in Ukraine, came here during the war, never took a penny from the government, worked as a dental assistant even though he was a dentist and he was told I.S.I.S.

is after him.

They came right to the dental office and spoke to his workers to find out where is he.

His last day was October 1st and he was not able to get a oh, what would you call it, an extension on his probation here.

Another young man who is a Turkish student here working every day at a I won't name the factory in Buffalo 40 hours a week.

He's working goes up because he has a day where he has to do his biometrics.

After a year or two of being here, we haven't seen him.

We don't know where he is.

He has no family here.

I feel that we've made this.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be a racist person, but people are glad to hear that the detention centers down on the border are closed and they don't realize this could be your family member.

You could have a father who came from Italy and didn't get his citizenship.

What would you do if he was gone?

Stop looking at this as brown and white.

Get away from this transactional government where if you got money, you're all set.

There's so much wrong that's going on.

It's.

We've lost all civility here, Diana.

>> First of all, thank you for the phone call.

I will say it is not our intention to exclude anybody from any conversation.

and I appreciate the points that you're making.

We have certainly covered the war in Ukraine a lot.

We will continue to do that.

I think that what you are talking about, the way people who are being targeted for detention and deportation, it is not meant to cast a very narrow case.

I'll just say, go ahead.

>> Heidi, I'm.

I just want to say something.

Thank you for the call.

in this short video that we're doing, we definitely wanted to balance this out, okay?

Because it is a lot about racial profiling, but there are we are all immigrants and they all look different.

We reached out to an organization in Canandaigua called Call to Care Canandaigua that has resettled Afghans, Ukrainians, Haitians, so on.

they had a young woman who Ukrainian.

She's in senior in high school.

She has spoken in many venues over the last probably 4 or 5 years since she arrived here.

And she and her family refused to be interviewed for our film because of the fear.

And they're the least likely, probably they're not on the list yet of deportations.

>> Yeah.

And I think I would say Diana, maybe.

Maria, correct me if I'm wrong here.

Diana is not wrong that the targeting and the problems are happening beyond just the Latino community.

>> Absolutely.

>> So but there is profiling that is going on that if they're looking for basically picking up brown people and asking for papers.

>> I mean, so I can give you a few things.

So first of all, I want to be clear that my agency supports all we don't discriminate.

You know, I actually have Ukrainian clients.

I just can't, you know, discuss their cases.

I have a legal binding contract with that.

but we serve them, you know, it's nonetheless.

And I want to be clear that, you know, we understand that this is going to impact a whole new world of people.

what we're seeing, though, is a little bit more targeting of the brown and less of the other ones.

Ukrainians still have TPS, you know, we're not talking about that part, but, you know, there's still some protections for some people.

And recently the Somalian just, you know, that that comment that President Trump made.

So again, we're going to start seeing this, this evolve.

But to your question, I guess oh, my God, I just feel like there's just going to be so much more enforcement.

I mean, I have a case that Heidi was present when we got a call.

he got picked up for speaking Spanish at Home Depot.

And this is here in Rochester.

I can't go into the details of the case, but I will just say, apparently, even speaking another language has become a crime.

So, I mean, when we talk about targeting, that's that's what we're talking about.

We're talking about real effects of just being just doing something that, I mean, I'm Spanish is my first language.

So, you know, even just that can be now a reason for me to get detained or pulled over.

>> I appreciate that, Diana.

Thank you for the call.

I've got so much feedback.

We're just going to try to go fast here.

Steve says.

During the Biden administration, there was bipartisan support for legislation that would have made significant improvement in addressing immigration issues, such as money for more judges, technology and many other things.

The legislation did not get passed because Donald Trump wanted to run on the issue of immigration not getting fixed, and told Republicans in Congress not to vote for this.

and Steve is saying, why is this not common knowledge?

We've talked about that.

It was James Blankenship, Senator from Oklahoma.

Am I remembering that name correctly?

Megan Mack.

senator from Oklahoma who's a Republican who helped create that legislation and was frustrated that it did get kind of derailed.

And it was during the time when there was a buildup to the 2024 election.

I don't know that it was a perfect bill.

I don't know that everyone loved it, but it definitely had some bipartisan support.

You want to jump in on that point?

>> I mean, absolutely.

So I think that when we talk about this bill, like I mentioned, there was another one in Arizona presented to about legal pathways for DACA and other things.

that is that's absolutely true, that Trump's did want to run on that particular issue because that was one of the top three concerns for people, aside from cost of life, of living.

so when we talk about, you know, policy and procedures, this is this is very political.

There's just no way to go around it.

You know, I think that when we talk even here locally with our local officials here, you know, it's still a hot topic because you don't know what side of the fence they're on.

I mean, I was at an event yesterday where I was like, do I even mention what I do?

Because lately it's like they want to defund these programs, federal funding, everything is being stripped.

We're seeing agencies right now who can't move left or right because of these cuts.

so, I mean, bipartisan bills need to happen and they need to happen now.

We cannot keep waiting.

>> Yeah.

>> And I think that there Maria, there's some idea that some I guess I would say conservatives or Trump supporters might have.

Well, you know, folks who do the work that you do, you know, you don't want any rules or you don't want any.

And you said yourself, you agree with the idea that we've got to be stringent in making sure that people coming in are not dangerous.

absolutely are not bringing drugs, and that you support that idea.

>> Yes.

Okay.

>> I mean, there has to be some kind of structure.

It's not a free for all.

I don't agree with, you know, outrageousness of of letting everyone in or.

>> No.

>> No, you know, things like that.

It's definitely has to be procedural, but I think it needs to be realistic, not as what's the word, not as outlandish as it is right now.

>> Okay.

Stefan says in our Monroe County airport bearing Frederick Douglass's name, we are doing business with one of the only commercial airlines that has contracted to fly deportation flights for Ice.

How can we put pressure on public officials to sever the relationship with this company if it refuses to stop participating?

that's from Stefan.

So Kit Miller?

he's asking, what can people do to put pressure, right?

>> And yeah, again, deportation flights are not normal government business.

They just are not they're not moral and they violate constitutional guarantees of due process and equal protection of the law.

So again, if the county is saying we don't normally want to interfere with business partners, I absolutely understand that.

And these are not normal times.

thanks for the question, Stefan.

I would say that to invite people to check out, like our local website, which is ground org is the national website.

So ground have av e l o org is national for local information.

It's no rock at proton.

Maybe some of this information can be on the website after.

Cool.

there's also a petition right now happening at the state level to support the Safe Air Act, which is New York State Senate Bill 7960, which would prohibit future contracts and tax benefits for commercial airlines that participate in deportation proceedings without due process.

So good news, folks, there's stuff you can do locally on the state level to affect some of what's happening federally.

>> All right.

One more email.

This is from Charles.

He says.

So the standard is regarding undocumented immigrants.

You can break the law so long as you don't have a previous criminal history.

I'm 100% fine with that standard, but let's make sure we understand the second and third order effects.

I will no longer be paying taxes.

The magazine lock will be removed from my AR-15, and I will not acknowledge the validity of so-called sensitive locations when deciding whether or not to carry my sidearm.

There's an awful lot of people who don't understand the full implications of what they're asking for.

So again, I'm going to turn to Maria, because again, Charles seems to think that what you're saying is laws don't don't matter anymore.

>> I guess to Charles's point, maybe, you know, being human is illegal, that that's the best way I can put this.

Like, what these people are doing.

Yes.

We're not disregarding the fact that some of these people did not do wrong by coming in a certain type of way, but not I think that there's so much misinformation, for example, coming in as Heidi, we were just talking about this coming into the country and asking for asylum is a legal form of entry.

>> Is legal.

>> To ask for asylum.

>> Legally to come into it.

That's what you're supposed to do.

So see the difference?

I think people don't even understand the definition.

Like for example, refugees is outside of the U.S.

They're asking for asylum outside of the U.S.

through consular processing asylum.

You have to be in the U.S.

to do that.

>> Well, as we wrap up here, let me remind you, on Monday night, starting at 7 p.m.

7 p.m., the Dryden Theater.

I've got too many notes here.

7:00 on Monday, Running to Stand Still is going to screen again.

It is a film that Heidi Ostertag Bob Bilheimer have brought to you from the southern border, telling the story of people crossing the border.

you can see the film on Monday night starting at 7 p.m.

at the Dryden.

And then there's going to be not only a five minute new film that they're rolling out.

There's going to be a town hall with the mayor, members of city council, and more.

You can register.

It's free, but you have to register in advance to do that.

so we'll have a link if you want to go on our show notes.

And I want to thank everyone involved here.

Heidi Ostertag.

Nice to see you, Kitzmiller.

Thanks for being back here.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Maria Garcia Daisy Ruiz Marin.

Thank you for both being here.

More Connections tomorrow, everyone.

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