>> From WXXI News.

This is Connections.

I'm Evan Dawson.

Our connection this hour was made with a man in Rochester.

A man is a man who was someone who was walking around the city every day asking for help, and he can be seen standing outside local businesses or heading back to wherever he's decided to sleep each night, representatives from local organizations that help people struggling with homelessness have asked him if he'd like access to a shelter, but he says he doesn't.

He says he's experienced violence there, or he's had other people take what little he has.

That's certainly not the experience of all people who use local shelters.

But it is something we've heard on this program from people who experience homelessness or from local nonprofit leaders.

And it's not the only reason people choose not to or cannot access shelters.

Research shows a growing number of people in Rochester are experiencing homelessness, according to HUD point in time data, there were 1194 unhoused people in Rochester and Monroe County as of January 2025, and data shows between 2019 and 2025, the total people experiencing homelessness in the area has increased by nearly 34%.

Every number that we discussed in this program related to that issue represents an individual person who's struggling.

And with that in mind, a new report from Rochester City Council President Miguel Meléndez seeks to help those individuals, his putting people and neighborhoods first.

Rochester City Council President Miguel A melendez Jr.

report on homelessness provides recommendations for how to make systemic changes with collaboration from all levels of government and community organizations.

The report also prioritizes the voice of people experiencing homelessness.

According to the report, they want responses to the issue that treat people with dignity.

This hour, we discussed the report and what President Melendez and his colleagues have learned, and we talk about the policies recommended by the report.

How feasible are they?

Will they solve the problem?

I'd like to welcome our guests and the president of Rochester City Council, Miguel Meléndez Jr., back with us.

Thank you for being with us here.

>> Thanks for having me again.

>> Next to him is Dr.

Janelle Duda.

Janelle is executive co-director of Advocacy and Fund development at Family Promise of Greater Rochester.

Thank you for being here.

>> Thanks.

Happy to be here.

>> Across the table is Beatriz LeBron, Executive Director of the Father Tracy Advocacy Center and commissioner on the Rochester City School Board.

Welcome back.

Thank you.

And Luis Burgos.

Welcome.

Luis, a resident of North Clinton Avenue.

And he plays a lot of community roles.

We've talked to him over time.

Good to get a community perspective.

Welcome back to the program Luis.

>> Always great to be here.

Thank you.

>> Miguel 390 pages of this report.

Is there enough new here at the end of the day that you say, look, we're going to try something and we haven't done this before and we can actually make a dent here.

We can make this work.

>> Absolutely.

I think there's enough old and enough new in this report.

When you talk to folks that are in the space that are doing community outreach or that are providing services in this community, one of the things I've heard is this is the first time they've felt that all of the information is in one place, that it can be utilized for advocacy purposes, and that was the intention originally with the report, is to really get a really high level synopsis of all the challenges, things that we probably already know and some things that we uncovered as we started to talk more with community members.

And I think in the report some of the things that we're calling for have been discussed in this community at length, and there are barriers to getting them done, one of which is figuring out how do we do low barrier shelters in this community?

some of that is whether or not it's the county or the state.

There's there's questions about that, but regulations might get in the way, funding mechanisms get in the way.

So how do we start having these conversations and elevate them to a point where everyone feels like we can find paths forward?

>> Is there anything I mean, that really did surprise you?

You say that a lot of the stuff, you know, you're trying to pull it together, but I wonder if anything surprised you.

>> One of the things that surprised me is how undercounted our homeless population actually is.

I mean, you mentioned the point in time count as as we were kicking this off the numbers probably double in terms of what's real.

And then when you think about things like the number of homeless youth and youth and families some of the data that we got from the state pertaining to RCSD and the charter schools, we have 2500 self-reported roughly 2500 self-reported youth in our community that are identifying as homeless.

and that's probably an undercount, too.

So when you start to really unpack some of the data and what's out there, it's really jarring.

>> You know, you also have sections where you talk about the barriers and the ways to maybe get past some of these barriers.

We're going to be talking about that with all of our our guests this hour in various ways here.

But Miguel, certainly rising Unaffordability comes up in this report for why homelessness in Rochester is increasing.

The cost of housing is a problem that's not new.

But do you feel like sitting here today?

The city of Rochester has got a plan to start making things more affordable for people.

>> I think we have we have work to do.

I do think that there are elements of our zoning plan, for example, that will allow for housing to be built at a faster rate and different types of housing, not just your traditional stick built housing that will help us.

I feel that ultimately, in terms of the housing issue, we don't have enough supply, and we've recognized that as a city, we've been building we've built about 4000 units since 2022, and as fast as you build it, as fast as you fill it, and you still have a wait list.

So so we have to continue to figure out how to increase the supply.

And then I've also had a lot of conversations with the city administration about what more can we do with the existing housing stock preserving it, not knocking it down and figuring out how we use things like the land bank to renovate properties and get it back into the rolls.

>> And let me also ask you one other question before I turn to your co-panelists in talking about housing, if you've got this vision to really attack the homelessness problem in a way that it's never been done before, one of the things that strikes me as a challenge for you is the fact that even people who work in advocacy or outreach to the homeless community have different views on what works.

And one example is the Housing First idea.

So there are advocates of Housing First who say, if you don't get somebody in Housing first, they cannot solve addiction, they cannot solve getting a job, and then others say, look, there's plenty of both anecdotal evidence and data that says that's if they're not getting their needs met for addiction and getting clean in life, putting them in housing doesn't solve that.

So I'm wondering where you are on that.

After all this time of this debate, where do you stand on that one?

>> Yeah, I think it's why can't it be both and right.

So when you think about putting someone into housing, you don't want to just put them into housing by themselves.

There has to be supportive services in place.

Otherwise, you're right.

I think the data shows that people on their own, if they have these other challenges going on, if they don't have the support, they're likely to be back on the street at some point in time.

So I think that the conversation I know that this is a big push in the, in the community because the federal government just announced in their nofo that they're changing course on some of this stuff.

but the reality is we've seen proven results also with our housing first mechanisms, with permanent supportive housing in this community.

Our units have increased, and we've seen a lot of success in that space.

>> Janelle, you seem to have a reaction to the the phrase housing first.

Anything you want to say about that?

>> Yeah.

So the evidence supports housing first.

So so that's where the research really, really lies on this issue of making sure that we get people into housing and then build those relationships, help build back trust.

and, and create opportunities for them to then improve their what's going on in their, in their lives.

>> Is there a concern, though, that if you do housing first, it needs to be tied to supports that Miguel is talking about.

>> 100% and funded supports.

So one of the things that Family Promise of Greater Rochester that we're able to do, because we have funding outside of government, is that we're able to provide aftercare services.

So we provide intensive, comprehensive, compassionate case management.

One up, one year post after families get into housing, which means that they stay in that housing.

>> All right.

across the table here, Beatriz LeBron.

Yes.

Homelessness from your perspective in this community is I mean, the data says it's getting worse.

It's getting worse in, in your part of town where Father Father Tracy Advocacy Center is.

>> Yeah.

And so for us, we've actually expanded quite a bit.

and I'll to Miguel's point, there are a number of children and adults who are unaccounted for homelessness.

and it makes me think about last summer how we had a family with a pet living outside of, you know, in the Blue Cross Arena.

sort of unknown to any system.

and they are not that is not a unique situation.

I just had a gentleman who was living over at the theater and also the number of working homeless people has increased.

I will say that this is a solvable issue, though it is a matter of realigning the resources that currently exist.

and also to the point I want to go right into if you are experiencing homelessness, that the system currently as it exists, requires you to go to Monroe County to seek a shelter placement.

the clients that we typically serve at Father Tracy on North Clinton, who are struggling with opioid and mental health oftentimes it's not a good placement for them because they're going to be placed in a shelter with other people who are also struggling with mental health and their own challenges.

unmedicated, untreated, with staff sometimes who are not trauma informed or care and don't know how to handle those types of situations.

Therefore, what they do is they kick you out.

That kick out will lead you to have a sanction.

That sanction will make you unplaceable in a shelter.

Even though you've told the county I'm homeless, I have nowhere to go.

and those are the individuals that we often see in the street, the individuals that have tried to get services but refuse to go back because they either have been denied, they think they're still under sanction.

what is most heartbreaking for me is always someone who's never interfaced with the system, and they work, and they may have lost a job.

And one incident sort of has triggered them down this path that when they go to the county, even if they're still working, that you have to pay out of pocket and they don't understand that.

So you have to stay, you have to pay.

I have had moms pay up to $3,400 a week to stay in a shelter while they're making minimum wage and trying to save to put down for a security deposit because they're not eligible for a security deposit with cash from the county.

and so, again, these are systems issues that really ping pong people into this homelessness.

in my letter, in the report and I testify to city council, the city, the city's office for the certificate of occupancy is a hold up for many people who are trying to transition from homelessness into housing.

because if you have housing and it doesn't have the certificate of occupancy, then the county will deny that housing for that individual.

and oftentimes it's very limited stock and housing.

And so it's first come, first serve.

and what I find is that, that that often holds people up and they end up losing the opportunity to be housed, and it prolongs them from continuing to be homeless again, systems that could be realigned and we can fix this.

I wholeheartedly believe that this is a solvable issue for our city and our size of the population.

>> City Council President Miguel Meléndez, is that a fair criticism?

>> It is a fair criticism, and it's something that, you know, we bring back to City Hall and we try to figure out how we how we do better.

And it's, you know, I think when it comes to the certificate of occupancy, not to make any kinds of excuse, but we've been trying to catch up to that issue since Covid, and it feels like the inspector challenges that we have in city government.

We've been working on these issues, but, that is a system issue that plays out in community.

>> Do you want to add something there?

Go ahead.

Louise.

>> Yeah.

And because of the the systemic shortcomings the the the the result, the default is, is is chaos in, in these underserved neighborhoods.

in my case, on my street where I've lived for 42 years I started to see the change about four years ago, maybe I pick up litter on my street.

I've been doing that for 25 years, and I'll never forget one day I looked and I saw this thing with a little orange cap, and I was like, oh my gosh, that's a needle.

And it's gone from one needle to hundreds and hundreds of needles.

>> On your street.

>> Yes.

So, you know, the unintended you know, result of that is some chaos.

in neighborhoods you know encampments where all kinds of you know, negative activity is happening.

and and 20, 25, we had three fires, on my street, which resulted in two homes being destroyed.

ultimately demolished.

Two other homes were damaged by fire.

So it's, it's it's been really destructive.

and the residents on the street you know, have a sense of of frustration and hopelessness to some extent as well.

You know I have spoken before about all of the activities that developmental activities that that have occurred in our, our neighborhood over the years to improve conditions, you know, create parks and to build a, you know, the cultural identity of, of, of the neighborhood and you know, lots of planning.

the I know you've had a talk on here about trees, you know Miguel probably remember back in 2014, we had our first conversation about the deforestation and in the northeast?

it took a lot of advocacy, planning to, to get the ball rolling on that, you know so we feel like, you know, we've over the years, we've invested so much in improving the neighborhood.

and to all of a sudden be subjected to this chaos and that's not something that we, we plan for and that we, we welcome necessarily.

>> What do you want government to do?

Local government.

>> Well, to do exactly what what Miguel is doing is he's leading is to engage the community and conversations and developing you know, rational solutions and identifying resources to do this the right way.

I think we understand that the reason why these individuals are in the encampments is because the system has failed them.

>> Okay.

And before I grab a phone call, Dr.

Duda, anything you want to add?

Sort of on the outset here, when you look at the overall problem of homelessness, whether it's resources, what's what's available to actually solve this problem or anything else.

>> Yeah.

So there are solutions and like if family promise of Greater Rochester, we're doing some of that work.

And so the idea is to really bring some of these ideas to scale multiple, you know, provide the resources and funding for multiple organizations to do the work that we do, offer the programs that we offer, like our scattered apartment sites for families we have prevention and diversion funding, which is really back rent and security deposits for families, which is more cost effective than to prevent an eviction.

Then once someone is homeless.

So it's really cost effective.

We have an affordable housing program as well.

and we're also part of the Housing Navigator team as well, which is funded through Arpa.

And so really and and then our aftercare program.

And so we really we know that there are solutions that work because like I said, the families we work with remain in housing.

And I want to echo what Beatrice said about working, working families, working people 70 or excuse me, 80% of the families we serve, we we support are working.

So these are people who are doing the right thing.

They're waking up every day.

They're going to work.

They just can't afford these rising housing costs because the availability of decent, affordable housing just isn't there yet.

We know that there's a role for the county in this we know that there's funding available that could be used instead of the county being more of a pass through of state funding.

There's additional funding like opioid settlement dollars that are that are in a trust fund right now that could be used to support low barrier shelters.

So so when I read Miguel's report, one of the major takeaways for me in terms of solutions was to protect the housing First continuum all the way from low barrier shelters.

We wouldn't be talking about encampments if we had low barrier shelters.

>> I agree.

>> All the way to keeping people in their housing.

>> Well, on the subject of encampments, let me grab Alexander in Rochester on the phone first.

Hi Alexander.

Go ahead.

>> Hi.

Thank you guys so much for taking my call here.

I have a couple questions and just to and if you only want to take one, that's totally fine.

The first question is the most important here.

I'm so glad to have Meléndez here on.

I am signed up to be at the that meeting tomorrow for the food community food system plan.

So if you March 5th today, I mean, so if you can be there, you should make it if you're in Rochester.

But anyways.

Meléndez.

So I know we just had a show recently on NPR about Peace Village.

and I just wanted to ask, I know you're kind of trying to spearhead this, this this encampment here.

Gino Fanelli writes a lot about you spearheading this campaign, and and on NPR.

And we'll write about, you know, your trying to fund it and trying to find people to really take care of it.

And I know community, the city roots owns that land and you're working with them.

But, I mean, I just want to see it happen.

You know, I see so many people who are just who need the help and who need spaces where, you know, they can use and they can feel like themselves and not feel like, belittled or or called out because, you know, they, they live a certain lifestyle that some people or some spaces just can't can't accept.

and to be honest with you, I can't even remember my second question, because that first one.

>> Is if if you could.

>> If you could, if you could just weigh in.

yeah.

>> No problem.

Alexander.

Thanks, man.

Go ahead.

Miguel.

>> Yes.

Thank you for that question.

so Peace Village is something that I continue to push internally.

just to give the community an update on the project, we did much of the infrastructure, groundwork that needs to be done on site to install pallet shelters at the location.

the city of Rochester, through, through the administration has been working on getting a vendor.

that should be announced hopefully in the next month or two.

And we believe I don't want to jinx this because I feel like I've said this on the record before, that it should be coming soon, but we believe that it'll be coming to council in the month of May at the earliest.

And it's my hope that this will be online and available for the community this summer.

>> Just in terms of the numbers here, Gino Fanelli did report after talking to you that the cost could be well over $1 million a year operational.

>> Yes.

>> And the city so far has pledged $290,000.

Is that still correct?

>> I without having in front of me, I'm going to say you're probably close.

>> Yes.

Okay.

So we're not we've got a long way to go to fund it.

>> Well so so what's coming to council will be the sources of funds to get to the number that they need.

>> And that could happen by May.

>> That's what we're looking at right now.

>> I just want to highlight, though, that this is a prime example of what opioid settlement dollars from the county should be used for.

I just have to say Tish James did not go after the pharmaceutical companies for us to have money sitting in the bank while the people who became addicted because of the manufacturers and how they marketed opioids out here who were impacted, this funding is for them that funding from the county should be redirected to fund Peace Village and get them the funds that they need to serve the exact population that has been directly impacted from the opioid crisis.

>> And I will jump on and say that there are active conversations between the city and the county about the long term sustainability and funding of Peace Village.

So that is a conversation we're having.

>> Well, in general, the report repeatedly stresses the need for all levels of government, not just the city, to work together on this.

And I want to read from your report and then ask you a question.

It says the city of Rochester takes on the largest burden of dealing with this crisis in Monroe County.

Such living conditions would be wholly rejected by the suburban and rural communities and their leaders.

It is critical that city, county, state and federal leaders have the same standards and protections for the city of Rochester.

Do you think other levels of government, including the county, have not stepped up enough on this?

>> I think we're all we're all responsible, and I don't want to place blame on the county or the state or the federal government.

I think when you look at it's when you look at this situation, it's become the de facto policy that this plays out in city, in urban neighborhoods.

And so if that's the case, I'm not going to say it's one level of government over the other.

I'm going to say that we all arrived here in this situation together.

And so the report is trying to highlight the opportunities to do differently.

And for each level of government to take some ownership over what they can control within their wheelhouse.

So this is not intended to be a know it all report.

This is intended to offer suggestions and ideas.

And if we do some of these things, the belief is that we'll improve conditions in the city of Rochester and therefore in the community.

But I will say this to elected leaders that are not in the city.

Yeah, it happens in our city.

And sometimes it's your neighbors as well that are playing, you know, that are in our communities and we are taking care of them.

We need you to help us.

We can't do it by ourselves.

>> Beatrice, do you think other levels of government haven't done enough?

>> Yes.

And and I want to say this because I think about this all the time.

I'm like, if tomorrow, everyone who is currently elected gets removed and new sets of folks come in, these problems would persist because these are system issues.

and so I want to be real clear that we not sort of focus it on a current elected and what their role is, because that person can switch tomorrow.

These issues are still here.

I also think, you know, I'll bring up the district for an example.

When I came to testify, I testified on behalf of the Senate, not as a commissioner.

We had someone else do that.

But what I often see on my end of things when I do have families with children and even with the placement is you may get placed now you're eligible.

Let's say you're a mom with a kid, you're eligible to get placed.

They might place you, let's say it's the weekend.

So you get placed at the motel six.

I'm just going to throw that for an example.

and then you call the school district and you say, hey, I'm homeless.

I've set up, you know, I need transportation set up because the mckinney-vento, they have to do it within a certain time frame.

it still takes us ten days, the district.

Ten days to sort of get a new route and route it and so forth.

and then what happens is the county will move that family while that process is being put in place.

And now there's another ten days because it's a new request for the for the district to move that family.

And then this whole time that child is missing school, I just have to point this out, like, this is the attendance issue we're talking about is related to those 2500 youth that have self-identified as homelessness.

and then in addition to that, again, we're spinning them into these cycles of you have to go look for an apartment once a day.

It's it's all of these things that are burden.

And for a parent who's already stressed out but for the district and the county, they have not been able to they have they have some collaboration.

Right.

we have to report attendance because it's related to someone's benefits for that parent.

But we're not communicating on who's homeless and in the shelters.

That's an RCSD student.

And treating those families outside of that system to say, we're not going to move them.

We put them in the motel six.

We're not going to move them 2 to 3 times.

while they're in placement with us.

we're going to get them connected because DHS doesn't do the case management.

They're not going to take you to go find an apartment.

And if you know that you're not doing that and that this family may not be connected with an agency, connect them with the agency to do that.

but I will say the district absolutely has to to Miguel's point, they're part of this conversation.

And there are solutions that they can start implementing.

And it begins with better communications with the county of identifying which crossover of our families, our Monroe County families getting services and who is experiencing homelessness.

and that alignment, unfortunately, is not there.

>> I'd like to jump in with solutions at the county level, because the county Bello did put out, what, two a year and a half, two years ago.

his four point housing plan that was funded through Arpa dollars.

And part of that plan was the Housing Navigator program.

The tenant landlord tenant mediation program, rental repair program as well.

And I think the landlord incentive program, which wasn't funded, but Family Promise is part of the Rock Housing Navigator program.

The program is working.

The program is helping families navigate this very difficult, challenging housing market, get affordable, sustainable housing, get into that affordable, sustainable housing, maintain that affordable, sustainable housing because there's an after care program that's funded as part of it.

And it's been going so well.

There's four organizations that are part of it, and it's the funding's ending.

The funding is ending in the fall, and we're just tired of programs that are working in our community having no sustainability planning, really not rising to the level of having this discussion about how do we keep that going when we know it's working?

And that's a problem across the board in this community.

>> So after we take our only break, I'm going to read more of the key recommendations that come from this report.

Make sure we understand, because the reports are are we going to share that report?

Is it available?

It's available publicly, of course, 390 pages.

You got some reading to do.

Audience.

But we're going to talk about these recommendations.

And our guests are going to weigh in more on how to sort of make this work here, because it is moving a lot of mountains.

It's not just the city of Rochester.

As president, Melendez has said here, if this were just up to the city, that'd be a simpler problem to solve.

That is not the case.

So let's talk about those key recommendations on the other side of this only break here.

I'm Evan Dawson on Friday.

Connections is preempted with live coverage of the funeral of Jesse Jackson, who passed away recently at the age of 84.

Former Presidents Biden, Obama and Clinton plan to attend the service, and the service will honor the career of the pastor, the activist, the former presidential candidate, Jesse Jackson, will have that for you.

On Friday.

>> Support for your public radio station comes from our members and from Mary Cariola, center, proud supporter of Connections with Evan Dawson, believing an informed and engaged community is a connected one.

Mary Cariola and Monroe County Economic Development accepting applications for the Micro Advantage Loan Program, designed to help small businesses with expenses such as equipment upgrades, marketing and hiring details at Monroe County businesses.

>> This is Connections.

I'm Evan Dawson.

Let me just read some of the key recommendations from President Meléndez report on homelessness, and I'll read them now and we'll talk about some of them.

Number one, support supporting the expansion of the Peace Village 2.0 model and increasing the number of low barrier shelter options.

Two years to wait is too long.

Affordable transitional housing solutions must be scaled up to meet the need.

Number two protecting a housing first continuum in the community.

Across the board, both residents and experts consistently supported a housing first approach, highlighted the need for both innovative short term and long term solutions to housing.

They listed the need to expand bed capacity at existing shelters, support transitional housing, reestablish low barrier shelters, scale innovative models like Peace Village and pilot innovative solutions to permanent housing, and number three, support for ambassador programs and programs like it to help community members connect or reconnect to opportunities.

These programs build bridges between housed and unhoused residents and promote reintegration in community life.

So those are some of the recommendations from the report, Greg writes to ask about a recent conversation we have saying he couldn't remember the guest, but he thought they were very critical of housing first.

Wants to know if the council president talked to them.

He's talking about the open door mission and the leadership of Open Door Mission was on this program.

I'm sure you know them.

And they said that I don't want to speak for the open door mission, but in general, they feel like Housing First has been proven not to work very well, or at least as it has been constructed, has led to people who end up being put in housing.

They end up still struggling with addiction and other issues.

They end up homeless and on the streets again, and they are supportive of different approaches in general.

I think it's fair to say, have you had those conversations with Open Door?

Greg is wondering if you have had those directly.

>> so, so Open Door definitely came in to testify in our day.

I think it was in October.

We had an open day for conversations.

so we've had some and testimonies actually, in the back of this report from the open door I would say that it goes back to what I said earlier.

If you just do Housing First without any support at all, I think there's evidence to say that that may not work if you're going to do it, and to do it right, there has to be an agency that is accountable to making sure that the individual who's in the housing also has whatever wraparound services are required or needed by that individual.

So I think there's there's space for for that conversation to be had.

And I welcome an opportunity to and I'll reach back out to open door.

>> Greg, thank you for the email.

let me ask Janelle Duda who's executive director of advocacy and fund development at Family Promise of Greater Rochester.

So it's clear, I read email from our listeners.

We talk about homelessness a lot on this program.

And for people who don't work in that space, it can be either frustrating or confusing.

As to all the different barriers Beatrice was talking about what an individual or family may be facing moving from place to place, how long it takes to get placed.

Are you actually required to be paying for any of that?

do you have to go down and and register in with the county in different ways?

And I want to ask you what you think people get confused about the most, or what do you think the public just doesn't understand what trips people up the most.

When we talk about solving or really making a dent in this problem?

>> Yeah, I think that there's still seems to be this sort of stereotype or assumption that folks aren't working, that they've created these situations themselves, that they're not trying to get the help that's available to them.

and that's just not the case.

Our families are working that we're, that we're supporting.

it's it's a combination of factors.

So many of us are just one paycheck away from homelessness, one car break down, away one illness away.

Our prevention and diversion funding, our portal opens up once for three days at the first of the business day of the month, and we get over 400 requests every single month for back rent and and or security deposits.

And we can only support 5% of those families.

And so we and they explain why they need why they're requesting that support.

And it's those reasons I just explained, you know, it's.

>> You don't look at those 400 and go, most of these are unjustified or.

>> Absolutely not.

No.

And then on top of it, you know, we talk about there's this funding that's available.

We we had to turn away over 750 families who called us requesting emergency shelter last year because we were at capacity.

And so where do they go?

Where do those families go?

Well, families keep their cars because they need a car to get to work.

Like I said, they're working and they can sleep in that car.

Oftentimes, relatives who may have been burned out by mom and dad, they'll take the kids so the kids can go and stay with mom and dad.

But mom's staying in a car.

Mom's staying on the street.

Mom's staying somewhere else, or she's staying in a toxic relationship.

so it's survival.

It becomes survival.

And so when families come to us, they are.

They're not necessarily always thinking rationally.

I don't always think rationally.

Right.

You're in crisis.

And so, like Beatrice said, trying to go down to DHS to go through all that paperwork.

And then if you actually get approved for temporary assistance, now you have all this work you have to do to maintain that.

And so that's why our model of, of I think there needs to be a mix of shelters that are not contracted with DHS.

And I know DHS would agree with that as well.

and so, so that that's when I think about low barrier.

That's also what I mean by low barrier that you don't have to qualify for temporary assistance in order to get into that, that shelter.

So yeah, in terms of what people don't understand, people who are experiencing housing instability look like everyone around this table.

They have experiences like everyone around this table, and they live in the suburbs.

I would love to have a suburban person community member on on the show.

sometime soon to talk about what they're experiencing because I know like Penfield hope their requests are are for for, help have increased so much over the last few years.

So it's not, as Miguel says, it's not a city problem.

It's a community problem.

>> Before I grab a couple more phone calls, if you're on the phone, hang there for one second.

I just want to ask Luis Burgos.

You mentioned at the outset what it's been like in your neighborhood, where you've been for decades, and I don't want to ask this question in a way that says, well, you know, how do the property owners, like I, I care about everybody, and we should be caring about the people who are experiencing homelessness, addiction, et cetera.

But I'm, you know, I'm thinking about your neighborhood and neighborhoods like it across the city where you if you're if you've got young kids, you may be a little more nervous about them being outside.

If there's needles on the ground, if there's drugs in the community, quality of life issues.

What do you want people to understand about quality of life in neighborhoods that are affected now in ways that maybe a decade ago, they weren't affected this way.

>> So primarily the the, the when it comes to the encampments, we're talking about individuals, not not not families per se, that that are struggling with addiction.

and all that comes with that in terms of their behavior, activities and the like, the collateral damage to the neighborhoods has been significant.

and I, I would hope that as part of this overall process that, some attention be given to restoring those, those neighborhoods in some way, you know, engaging with the community groups, organizations, associations with, with residents to see how how can we you know address the damage that was done not not only physically but psychologically.

I mean again, in in our community, we've done so much positive work.

And I don't want to say that we became complacent.

This really came out of left field, like, literally the last four years is when I really saw I saw it really hit our neighborhood really hard.

but we we have to regroup, and we need resources to rebuild our confidence.

And it's not just the physical nature of it, but helping, supporting.

you know, block clubs, neighborhood groups, associations to take control and to rebuild.

Rebuild the neighborhood, basically.

>> Can I just jump in really quick with what Luis said, that timing around four years ago, it not like random.

It's we know systems can actually keep people in housing because that's what we did during Covid.

We kept people in housing.

And I know that there are some things that we could do differently.

We now have learned from that.

Right.

But but just to be really clear, and I think this is back to your question to me, Evan, about, you know, what what don't people understand is that actually systems can work efficiently and effectively.

We can if we put our mind and we put resources together and we're all going down the same path, like, you know, Miguel's report is trying to to drive us that way, then we actually the work can be done to reduce homelessness.

>> Go ahead.

Miguel.

>> Yeah.

So in addition to everything Luis has said, I, I think one of the conversations that's a large conversation in our community is around dignity.

Yes.

And I think we need to be mindful that we need to have dignity for the individual that may be struggling, but we also have to think about the neighborhoods that are bearing the burden, if you will, of having you know, individuals in a vacant lot that, you know, are to many of the neighbors might be strangers to them.

And some of the associated challenges that come with it.

and we spent a lot of time in the city, in city government and in working with the administration.

One of the things we did was we had a work session around this issue of encampments, and it's been very clear that the approach has changed as a result of a lot of community voices being at the table, people being loud about this issue.

But at the same time, there's that balance of, yeah, we have to be mindful of how we dignify the individual who might be in an encampment, but also the balance of the resident that lives right next door and the mother who has their children who has to walk by certain situations and see certain things that in any other neighborhood would be wholly unacceptable.

So it's a it's a very delicate situation.

>> Let me get Robert and Courtney on the phones.

Robert first in Fairport.

Hey, Robert.

Go ahead.

>> Yeah.

Thanks for taking my call.

I'm kind of curious who actually paid for this report.

It's several hundred pages long.

You know, working in the research business.

I know that something like that takes a lot of time, takes a lot of expense and so on and so forth.

And it just seems strange to me that some of the people that are advocating for this and have side gigs helping the homeless industry in Rochester had something to do with the report.

It seems like a conflict of interest.

Thank you.

>> I'm happy to answer that first.

So so the report was funded through the council office in terms of our staff backbone support.

So there was no additional dollars outside of what we approved in the city budget.

so our team are back, and I actually should give them a great shout out for all the hard work.

>> They didn't do.

This 390 on your own typing.

>> I wasn't typing by myself.

Okay.

but certainly we had a large backbone support team.

But in addition to that you know, there's a lot of testimony in this report.

There's, there's some community surveys that were done.

so there's probably 30 to 40 organizations that all submitted written testimony.

There's a few select folks that are on this panel today because we can't fit 30 to 40 organizations in this room and probably wouldn't be a productive conversation in an hour.

So this is just representative of and reflective of the different voices that were at the table.

>> Beatrice.

he said there's a homelessness industry and that he was concerned that people were involved in this report who may be benefiting or profiting.

>> yeah.

I think what to Miguel's point, it was open to agencies that are in this space and provide services.

There is no profit and not for profit.

oftentimes we're actually I myself was a new editor three years ago, coming in to not realize that this is the financial structure of nonprofits.

And it is really struggling to pay, make payroll week to week, a month to month.

if you're a nonprofit and you have a lot of money in your account, then good for you.

But most nonprofits don't.

and we run on a reimbursement model for the most part, where we have to provide the services, show evidence of those services being provided and payments, and then it's reimbursed back to us.

So I don't know what money is there to be made in that space.

but I will say if these systems were fixed on a large grand scale, even at the federal level, perhaps someone like myself wouldn't have a job and I would be okay with that.

I am highly competent and skilled in many other areas.

and I often have to fight myself sometimes to sort of stay in this space because I know I can go and go do something else.

However I also deeply understand that this has been an ongoing, you know, issue for many, many years and that these are system issues.

And to Janelle's point when we say, well, what can the county or the city do is find dollars to fund low barrier housing.

If you are homeless, you should be able to just get connected to temporary housing.

And I want to uplift the Housing First model because I am also of the belief that it's not just throwing someone in housing, and that is not housing first.

but it is really getting to know that individual and understanding what is the best fit for them and for my clients.

Sometimes that is an program where they have wraparound services and required case management check ins.

I have clients that that's not a good fit.

They don't want that level of support.

They might just be okay with getting referred to Baden for ongoing counseling once a month.

and living in a private apartment.

I also am not a fan of the housing.

First of sticking people into private apartments without having a relationship with the landlord to also sort of prepare them that of what you might be getting with an individual, but also not being the agency to give the landlord support.

and these are all the things that have to happen, right?

We can't have blanket sort of policies or procedures that we do for homelessness.

They're all very different.

To Luis's point, opioid addicted individuals who are struggling with mental health have to be have different options and resources to tap into than families who are working there.

And they're all experiencing homelessness.

And all of them, all of them have to go through the same system to tap into just a bed for the night to get them by.

That's insane to me.

>> So why not?

I mean, playing devil's advocate here, why not sobriety first instead of housing first?

>> so sobriety first?

you cannot force people to be where they're not at.

And that's, that's just the reality.

you're going to waste your energy, your time.

>> What do you mean?

In terms of being ready to be.

>> When people will get sober, when they're ready to get sober, they have to hit a bottom, and that's their bottom.

We can't determine that bottom for individuals when they feel like enough is enough.

And I have seen people go down in the gutter to hit that bottom.

And others.

One incident, they were like, oh, that's enough for me.

I don't ever want to go back to jail.

I don't ever want to be arrested.

Help me figure this out.

and it is, you know, a case by case.

But addiction is very complex.

No one wants to be an addict.

No one grows up to say, hey, I want to be, you know, an addict on the street and not have any future goals.

and to Janelle's point, homelessness impacts anyone and everyone.

So does addiction.

This is this.

This is not a particular neighborhood.

and addiction, unfortunately, is rampant around the whole county centered in the city, highlighted in the city.

But it is all over Monroe County as well.

>> Janelle, anything you want to add on that idea on sobriety?

And when people are ready?

>> Yeah, I mean, I'm going to go back to evidence like it's not only just this personal choice that, oh, okay, things are really bad.

So now I'm now I'm going to get better.

It's a medical condition.

We know that.

And so, so so we need to have those supportive services.

People need to have their basic needs met in order to start even thinking about, okay, let me start to let me try to get stable.

Even like seeing a future, having that hope, that's really important.

And so and I also just I believe that, you know, we're all a community and we're all in different places in our lives.

And so if we have a system that's only going to help people at certain stages, at a later stage in that process, I'll play devil's advocate.

What are we going to do with those folks who aren't going to get sober?

I don't think the community wants more people out there panhandling.

I don't think Luis wants even larger encampments, because then what are the services available for them?

We know that doesn't work.

We've tried that before.

That's been done in this country.

And it it didn't work.

And so let's get let's treat people with dignity and respect that they deserve.

>> All right.

Back to your phones.

This is Courtney in Rochester.

Hey, Courtney.

Go ahead.

>> Hi there.

And to that last point about dignity and respect.

I'd like to know if there's any training in place or will there be any training put into place to help city as well as county employees better engage with the homeless population?

The point being that there can be policies and procedures put in place, but if there's indifference or some kind of apathy or bias or other attitudes on the part of those tasked with the implementation towards the homeless or any other marginalized population for that point, then that raises a concern about how and whether those policies and procedures are in fact being implemented and whether people are, in fact, being treated with dignity and respect.

>> Courtney, thank you.

And, Miguel, can you want to jump on that one?

>> Yeah.

I'll start.

I'm sure that I won't have the full answer, but certainly that's been part of the conversation in city government is who should be the responder.

the city of Rochester created a homeless outreach team.

They call it the hot team.

and over time, they've expanded the table to include a lot of different organizations from the community.

Are pick team, our crisis intervention services, in addition to law enforcement and others that are involved.

to your point about training you know, one of the things that I plan to do and working with the deputy mayor now to get this scheduled is have a meeting with the county and city joint team.

There is a joint team that's working on how to problem solve and work together on encampments and other matters.

And this question of training and raising it, I'll be certain to raise it at that table.

But I know that there is a lot of training that gets involved, specifically with crisis intervention.

And on the county end, I know that there's the impact team and other teams that are well versed in how to engage the public.

and if there's stories out there or opportunities to improve, I certainly would want to know more about that.

>> Courtney, thank you for that.

xAI writes to us to say there's a lot of assistance for individuals and or families who are currently unhoused or have been or have been evicted, or have a notice of eviction with a court date, but there's no help, legal assistance or mediation or services to prevent people from becoming homeless.

And it's virtually impossible to get decent housing if you have an eviction on your record.

Is that a fair observation there?

>> Yeah.

And and I want to point out that funding and how it comes through, even for Lamp.

Repeat right to Janelle's point programs are funded and unfunded.

And oftentimes it's up to the nonprofit to figure out how they're going to sustain something that no one else is funding.

I know for us, we're in court right now and we're doing some prevention, and so is Monroe County.

DHS is there as well.

So if there is an individual who has a marshal order, DSS is there typically Wednesdays we're there Tuesdays, Thursdays.

and we are trying to catch them there.

But to that point once there's an eviction, it is almost, I would say ten times harder to find a landlord.

who will rent to you, especially if it's a fresh eviction.

in addition to that, we have landlords who do the three times the income requirements.

in order to apply, which is another way to discriminate against individuals who get DHS, Social Security or have limited income.

and that's all that is, right.

And we have to have those conversations with our electeds at City and County to also figure out how is that legally even allowed?

The state doesn't allow income discrimination.

So and how do we hold those individuals accountable?

but again, a very complex conversation.

>> Yeah.

Miguel, about 30s, who's going to stand in the way of the solutions that are listed in this report?

Who do you expect to have complaints about this?

>> Well, I think complaints is probably not the right word.

Maybe differences of opinion?

no one's going to stand in the way.

I think what we're going to do is find what's what we can move forward with, and what might be more long term and conversations.

We need to have long term my experience so far going to different tables is everyone wants to find themselves in this report.

They want to pick a solution that they think they themselves can work on and put some energy into it.

I delivered this report to the county legislature, also to the RCSD Board of Commissioners, and in delivering that, the message was the same.

This is a collective accountability opportunity for all of us.

And what I anticipate doing now is having those conversations with legislators across government states busy right now with with session.

But at some point, the state delegation, I want to have a conversation with them.

What all can we do?

Because there's pieces in this report that I think are low hanging fruit and some that are longer term.

>> And I think I'll wrap with this.

Miguel, this is your report.

I think there are some elected leaders who would say, we can't just keep throwing money at a problem.

I don't necessarily hear that from you.

I'm certainly funding is is more funding would probably help in a lot of different directions from different levels.

But this isn't just a report that says the conclusion is more money is necessary, right?

>> It's it's it's strategy.

It's regulations.

What what's in the way what's causing barriers for people.

And how do we remove as many of those barriers as possible.

>> So I've been saying 390 pages, but there's graphs and charts.

and you can read it and we're going to post it.

We're going to share it in our show.

Notes Miguel Meléndez, president of Rochester City Council's report on homelessness.

Thanks for sharing it with us.

Keep us in touch and I know you will on the various developments here.

Thank you for being here.

Thank you.

And around the table, Janelle Duda, the executive Co-Director of Advocacy and Fund Development at Family Promise of Greater Rochester.

Thanks for being back with us here.

Absolutely.

Beatriz LeBron, who is the Executive Director of the Father Tracy Advocacy Center, Commissioner of the Rochester City School Board.

Thanks for being here.

>> Thank you for having us.

>> Luis Burgos come back anytime.

Tell us how your neighborhood's doing.

We really appreciate hearing from you.

Thank you.

And from all of us at Connections.

Thanks for watching.

Thanks for listening.

We are back with you.

Well, Monday, we've got live coverage on NPR tomorrow of Reverend Jackson Funeral Services, and we're back with you Monday on member supported public media.

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