From WXXI news I'm Jasmine Singer and this is Environmental Connections.

Today's environmental connection began on a quiet afternoon last summer.

I was walking near my mom's house in a small Vermont town, past a modest community center where kids artwork often decorates the walls.

But on this day, I noticed something new.

A simple but really striking mural painted on the side of the building.

It depicted familiar scenes, local mountains, pine trees, wildlife subtly changing into scenes of heatwaves and storms and flooding.

And I paused.

I love public art.

I will always stop to look at it.

I just I was really taken.

I stood there and a man saw me standing there, and he was walking his dog, and he slowed down next to me and he said, funny how you can live here your whole life and not really notice things changing until someone paints them on a wall.

Today's Environmental Connection explores how art can shape our response to climate change, both in public awareness and meaningful action.

When we think about climate solutions, we we often turn first to technology or policy or science.

But increasingly, artists and creative practitioners are reminding us that climate action is as much about imagination and empathy and shared stories as it is about data and legislation.

Today, we'll hear from three Rochester area based artists and educators who each, in their own way, use their creative practices to deepen connections with nature and raise awareness about climate change and inspire collective action.

We'll talk about how art can help us grapple with eco anxiety, and why creative storytelling can bridge deep divides, and how engaging our senses through art can motivate even deeper change.

Joining us today are three guests who approach these questions from different angles using different media and disciplines.

In the studio with me today are Stephanie Ashton Felder, associate professor of art and director of digital media studies at the University of Rochester.

Welcome to Environmental Connections, Stephanie.

Thank you.

And we also have Andrea Gluckman, a photographer and educator and civic artist based in Rochester.

Welcome to the show.

Thanks, Jasmine.

And joining us remotely is Rose Carella.

Beauchamp I hope I said that correctly because it's very beautiful.

Oh, good.

We're off to a great start.

Rose, professor of dance at the University of Rochester.

Welcome to Environmental Connections.

Rose.

Thank you so much for having me.

We're really appreciate it.

I know you're really busy.

You're all very busy, which is something I want to chat with you about, too.

I come from an arts background and and and an act of a very rich activism background.

I came to public media later in my 40s and so the way that the arts intersects with, social change is a very fascinating to me.

I find it really interesting that people sort of let their guard down more when it comes to, you know, the arts of any kind, really.

It's like suddenly you're not being perceived as proselytizing to someone because they're just experiencing the art.

But I'm getting ahead of myself.

So, Stephanie, let's start with you.

Your recent TEDx talk explored the role of art and storytelling in deepening our connection to environmental issues.

So I'm curious, what brought you to this intersection of art and climate?

Was there a particular moment or experience that made you realize that your art could help address environmental challenges?

I think the moment I realized the power that art had to address environmental, challenges was when people interacted with my own work and they had such, reactions to the work, like emotional reactions that I felt like I wasn't seeing in other spaces.

Right.

So suddenly when when people were experiencing the work, they were feeling like literally feeling something.

And so that power to make people feel is so important when it comes to engaging with climate change that, I really knew, like moving into this space was going to be a really good natural fit for me.

That is so cool.

I mean, it also just like what a profound experience it is for you as the artist.

Like kind of I would say as the vessel through which you're creating this, this really this eye opening awakenings in the people who are experiencing it.

What is that like for you?

Well, it's funny that you like I am.

No, I don't see myself as the vessel so much anymore because I less lean into making my own work and more lean in to creating like a third space.

Like a third space for other people and the wider community to experience the work of others.

Right?

So whether it's like I'm creating a moment for you to tell your climate story or hear someone else's story, or I'm creating a space for other artists to make art about the climate change, their experience thing.

Like, that's that's where I sort of left the the like feeling of being the author of this thing behind and gave that space to others.

I can totally relate to that.

I mean, it's like, I don't know if it if it comes with kind of being like seasoned in a particular area, but like, you became the curator sort of and, and you're, you're emboldening other people to do what you've been doing.

True.

And even less hierarchical than that.

Right.

Like, I feel like curator is still like puppet master, right?

Like, I feel like it's even it's almost just like when I talk about creating a third space, like, I'm really just trying to create a space to allow people to tell their stories and to listen to those stories and gain some kind of intimate experience from either making the art, listening to the art, listening to the story.

Okay, that's so cool.

All right.

I have a lot more questions, but I want to check in with you, Rose.

You describe your work as eco somatic connecting movement with the environ moment.

Can you unpack that term for us?

Eco somatic, and tell us why it's so central to your work?

Yeah.

So, well, eco somatics is literally how our bodies are part of the environment.

And we you know, it's kind of a term that's emerged the past decade or so, and has become more popular with this work, towards saving the planet.

Really.

But in general, the idea of using our bodies to be fully human, applies to all of us, right?

A lot, in our education and our world, we we especially since Covid with the, the disconnect of not having our bodies in the same spaces, a lot of times we live in our, in our minds, but we forget that our mind as part of our body.

Right.

And so, really, this work and the work I do in collaboration with 17 and Andrea really is about like reconnecting to our bodies.

Right?

So remembering that all of us have a body and all of us have a political body, and all of us have different backgrounds in our body, and all of us are in relationship to the environment.

So that's a lot and that's really heavy.

But that's kind of my role as an artist in this.

You know, I, I, I make activist art.

I make art that's always working around and about the environment.

But really the bigger idea is how do we get people to reconnect and understand that our whole body and our whole selves, is what's going to make, first process of what's happening with the climate, make the change in the climate, allow us to talk to each other and empathize with each other.

You know, none of this is going to work if our bodies aren't engaged in it.

And that's.

Yeah.

Go ahead.

No, you go ahead.

Sorry about that.

No, I was just going to say in that that's a lot for us to do to bring our bodies to each other in moments like this that are really hard.

And really tricky.

Yeah.

And when you say bodies, you know, I just think also of all of the bodies who we don't see, you know, in the, in the wild or, or on our plates or, you know, as, as, author and and feminist scholar Carroll J. Adams has called it the absent referent.

Who, who are we not referring to?

What bodies are in the wild that you're that are in our, our ecosphere, our environment.

And and so I, you know, I it already speaks to the power of the arts to me.

And I am curious.

Rose, before we get to Andrea, tell me a little bit about what brought you into this kind of world of connecting activism and the arts.

That's a good question.

It's been a long time now, but really, I live in a space with dancers that are very much into somatics, which is like understanding the body and mind connection.

And I always was aware that there was something magical about these spaces, that people were authentic, people were willing to connect.

And then, you know, over time, understanding the history of using movement to communicate.

We all communicate with movement first, the, the understanding that movement as a dancer, an art form can communicate and can kind of bypass our minds in a way, it's called kinesthetic empathy.

So the more I understood how much power our bodies have, I mean, we do it every day when we stand up for a protest, right?

The more I started to understand that, the more, I started to intentionally use that and channel it.

And then I remember the moment where I was like, what issue am I going to work on?

What am I going to address?

And as I, you know, went through, like all of this list of these things, I wanted to make change like, and the environment is the baseline.

If we don't have an environment with all these other bodies that you talk about, there's nothing else.

Right?

And all the other issues intersect.

I love it, love.

That's that that's a great way of putting it.

Yeah.

And that is Rose Fest gala PogChamp, the professor of dance, a professor of dance at U of but who's really making some incredible, connections as as is our next guest, Andrea de for for Andrea or Andrea.

Andrea, I appreciate you asking.

Of course.

And, Andrea is a civic artist and a photographer and an educator.

Your art often focuses on photography and videography, videography, capturing stories of climate and community.

And we were kind of already talking around storytelling.

What initially drew you into exploring environmental themes through photography and visual storytelling?

Well, that is a great question.

In my previous life, kind of before kids and before Covid and all of those things, I was working as an analyst, as a regional analyst on Middle Eastern issues and working on transitional justice, and really around a lot of, highly combative topics when it comes to sitting down and actually, you know, working through them.

So what, what I had been doing in terms of using my photography skills for documenting human rights abuses or documenting for evidential purposes genocide per se in in Rwanda.

I then started to look at it more as, how can I change my methodology for this to be more impactful?

So it for a number of reasons, shifted from that analytical sphere into something that was a little bit more artistic.

And you intimated, you already, you know, spoke to it.

So did Stephanie, and so did Rose, that neurologically we just process, artistic experiences in a different way.

We're able to, you know, bypass a lot of those analytical roadblocks.

The invitation has a number of different entry points.

And I found that a number of topics that are so difficult to talk about, be it climate change, be it, war, you know, racism, all of the things that we're still plagued with, we cannot only come into conversation, but we actually can be transformed by it because art is the way that we make meaning.

Yeah.

Out of all of this chaos.

Yeah.

It's so true.

It just it lights me up so much.

And, Andrea, I know that building trust is absolutely crucial when you're doing community engaged projects around sensitive topics like climate.

Could you describe a moment where you had to slowly build trust in a community you worked with, and maybe what helped foster that connection?

Sure, absolutely.

Well, I've been lucky to have incredible partners and collaborators in this venture, and I think collaborative work is always going to be, that the way to lean in to any kind of civic engagement community project?

Because you're, you have built in accountability and you have a number of ideas working with community on how, how to best serve that community.

So my, my, my big challenges were not necessarily with Stephanie and Rose.

In terms of our projects, I've been involved in other projects that have been multi-year projects where the trust building actually took the entire time, and I'm still still working on that.

And going back to the community and vetting things.

That's another big thing when Stephanie's talking about stepping away from being the artist with a capital A, that you take your work, you know, with your your heart and your hands back to community and say, what does this feel like?

It's, it's a very different process than the solo adventure of making art for yourself.

Yeah, I would imagine, and Stephanie, I, I have a similar question for you.

You've mentioned how art can translate complex climate science into something tangible and relatable.

So could you share a specific artistic project or moment maybe that clarified a difficult environmental issue for people?

Yeah, I think I'd probably lean into the storytelling part of the work that I do and the story collection part of that.

Often when I'm giving a talk about the project, it's called the Adirondack Climate Project that we work on.

It has storytelling as part of it.

So we're traveling around the park, we're collecting stories from park inhabitants.

And sometimes when I play those stories, people talk about how the park has changed since they've been going there as a child, and they get choked up when they're telling that story.

And the audience members are literally also choked up listening to the story.

And I'm also choked up hearing the story.

And so that thing that happens when we hear other people's emotion, I would say that really is what, you know, helps other people to sort of feel this profound connection that was just like, I feel like is missing.

Why why does that happen?

I mean, I know I think anyone listening or watching on YouTube right now knows what you're talking about.

I certainly do, but what is going on there?

Like, let's just peel back the layers.

Sure.

So it's kind of like when you watch a horror movie and you're sitting there and you're like, your heart is racing and your hands are sweaty and but yet you are not being chased by the guy in the mask.

So it's a very similar thing that happens.

Yeah, hopefully.

There's a very similar thing that happens in your brain.

It's called like, neural mirroring.

Where what?

When I tell that story that's moving me to cry about the environment, your brain and my brain are actually sharing a similar connection.

The parts of my brain that are lighting up are the parts of your brain that are lining up.

It's also referred to as neural coupling.

This is why I love that you always open your show with a story because you're literally, coupling my brain with your brain before we even go into your gas.

So, it's really like, a powerful way to form a connection with the human being.

Well, thank you for saying that.

Yeah.

Can I jump in there?

Please do.

Yes.

One second.

You could jump in there for more than one second.

Okay.

That is also this idea of kinesthetic empathy, right.

And so as I see you or as I hear someone, getting choked up or I see their body, my body reads their body.

Right.

And so that's one of the things I was talking about.

And that's why part of this project, the Adirondack Climate Project, part of it is that we are actually on site because there's something different that happens in our body.

And that is also true in kind of one of the things that we do with our artists.

We host an artist retreat, and there's something about everyone being there on site as we listen to the stories and read the data that, kind of gets into the artwork.

Can you tell me more, Rose, about the Adirondack project that you're referring to?

And that's where you are, right now, right?

You're calling us it?

We're we're zooming you in from the Adirondacks.

No, no, I am at the beach, but I notice how my body is responding to the beach.

Good for you.

All three of us.

All three of us are, involved in Echo Lab, art, which is kind of our little group or cohort that has worked on the Adirondack Climate Project.

And, you know, I think it started originally with Stephanie and I working with the Adirondack Council.

And it's a community engaged art project that, came out of a discussion with the Adirondack Council.

The Adirondack Council really wanted to get their pulse on what people were thinking about climate change in the park.

So in the line of the Adirondack Park, it's Jeff and I were like, great.

We can listen to we can collect some stories.

But we're artists.

And so we also want to do what we believe, right?

Ask people to respond to these stories or create art around climate change.

And so that's how it started.

We built a booth and we go around the Adirondack Park and ask people what they think about climate change, how they see it in their lives.

Do they believe in it?

It's a nonpartisan, just story gathering effort.

And then from there, we take those stories and we do a lot of things with them.

Right?

We ask artists to listen to these stories, to ponder it.

Sometimes they get inspired to look at other climate data.

We have students.

We teach a course at the University of Rochester.

We have students listen to these stories, of course, with permission of the story givers.

And they start to understand things in a different way, as Stephanie was talking about.

And so from there, we have artists listen and respond.

And so then we have, there's amazing online archive of different stories and art responses.

And we've also had art exhibits in the park and, in Rochester, Jeff or Andrea might be able to jump in if I missed anything.

Anything you want to add?

I'm seeing some nodding.

No.

We can.

We covered it.

Yeah.

Go ahead.

Andrea, I just want to add on to it to what you said Rose to about the, the efficacy of the role of art in translating that climate data because, Stephanie has a great presentation or piece of a presentation where, you know, a bit of data will be shown in more kind of traditional form, analytical form charts and such, and then there will be like an artistic rendering or interpretation of what that means.

So of course, all all aspects of that data are valid and salient.

But one thing that, the stories really get to in the art gets to is it allows people to interact with that data in a different way and to determine the relevance in their own lives in a different way.

And that's one thing that we're really trying to help.

As we close the loop, people tell the story.

People respond to the story.

People come and look at the art that's created from it.

And then how is that relevant in terms of the actual climate data?

And one thing I always like to say is that climate change has a communication problem.

Yes.

Like we need to figure out other ways to communicate this problem if we're going to make a difference.

Yeah.

Oh, that's so fascinating to put it that way.

And I just kind of want to point out what I see as the elephant in the room, which is that, like, I love talking to artists and and people who are doing creative projects around social justice issues.

But when when we're doing so in audio, it can be a little challenging because, you know, like all I want to really do is say, you know, Rose dance, you know, like just something that's a visual or tangible kind of feel and, and, and I think that all of you, you know, you're doing a stupendous job anyway, of kind of bringing a very specific picture of what it could look like to work across, different ideologies and disciplines.

And I'd love if one of you, or more than one of you, could tell us about maybe a time when you had to bridge significant differences to make a project succeed.

Or maybe that's not the right way of putting it.

Like, what does success even mean in terms of doing this?

Who wants to take that?

I'm seeing some nods.

Stephanie.

Okay, I could talk about.

I mean, I could talk about a project I did with my partner, Amos Scully, and we did a piece about PCBs, in river docks on the Housatonic River in Massachusetts.

So we were trying to bring this, issue to light to viewers who are walking over this bridge.

Right.

So we had a well pump.

Can you imagine that?

Like the old fashioned red well pump with the handle and it it was attached to the bridge.

So as you walked across you could pump this well pump.

And now imagine at the end of it was a glass dock.

So you pumped the water up from the river into this like pristine glass dock.

And over time the duck got dirtier and dirtier.

And so as a piece of public art, we thought it was very effective to make people think about like, oh, these docks are getting dirtier.

What's in the water?

You know, there's a little plaque there explaining what was happening and about two days into the project, we started to get calls saying, like, the docks are getting dirty.

Should we?

We went down there, we cleaned them like and oh no, no, no, the docks are supposed to get dirty.

And then a few a little more time into the project, maybe a week.

There were some fishermen who apparently we had dropped those.

Well, well, water things right into really important fishing holes, which we, of course had no idea about.

So we had to drive back to Massachusetts and try to come up with a solution that was good for everybody.

Right.

So how do we appease the fishermen?

How do we work with the museum to still keep the piece intact?

You know, and so having those conversations and trying to figure that out was really tricky.

So and you know, I suppose we weren't appeasing the fish in that scenario just to bring it back to the different bodies.

But, you know, it does bring up the fact that there's always different perspectives.

And like, I don't totally understand where an artist's perspective comes into that conversation.

Like, are we just pushing forth like our ideologies?

How are we being inclusive and representative of the whole the whole community?

Is that even possible?

Which is where it becomes interesting when you can be right.

So last, do I make work like I just described, where I'm the artist of this piece that is going into this community, right.

And more now I would want to collaborate with the fishermen.

I would be like, you know what I want to do?

I want to collaborate with them to figure out what can we how can we talk about this same issue with their voice in the mix?

And yeah, Rosie, I'm feeling it.

So I'm feeling.

You want to say something?

Go for it.

Well, it's interesting, right?

Because the practice and this is where dance has rooted me in this, like the practice of the dance that I make is never here.

I am the creator of the dance right here.

Here I am telling you what to do.

It is always here's an idea.

How do we talk about it?

What do you think about this?

How do we all have, a say in this?

And that comes from a very specific practice called the movement choir.

And in that practice, which has its own problems.

But for the good parts of that practice really are that there are individuals within a group.

And so I think, you know, even though I, as an artist, have my own idea, my own opinion, I'm never making art in a way that is, is only doing that.

I'm always pulling in threads of other people.

And so that gets to this bigger idea of like, you know, consensus ways of discussing things that we don't agree upon different perspectives.

Right?

And of course, there is always the question, who is in the room and who is asked.

Right.

But this really is a model.

If you let go of there's that.

In the history of art, I'm jumping a little bit, but there's that high art, right, that you touched upon that the art with the capital A there's community art, and then the art world that has always been really, really separate historically.

Right.

But if we get beyond that and ask the bigger question, you were able to find these magical ways of consensus, of multiple voices, of different perspectives.

And I think that's what Stephanie is pointing at as well.

Right.

Like a reciprocal partnership.

Right?

Being a framer is not being an authoritarian or the one with the idea.

Yeah, right.

And that's that's the root of all of our work with this environmental stuff, because it's not going to be one of us with an idea that makes any change.

It's all of us doing every bit, having every, every say, well and sticking with that for a moment.

Rose, I know that you've mentioned that your work has been deeply influenced by indigenous teachings and methodologies.

Could you elaborate on how indigenous approaches inform your understanding of movement and ecology and activism?

Yeah.

So first of all, I'm not indigenous.

I don't claim to be.

And I want to shout out to Trish Corcoran, who is like my teacher of all, she's just an amazing person that works at the Harley School and works is on the board of and on again.

And indigenous peoples Day.

Andrea and I work together to create, this work called remnants.

And it was in Allison Park.

And really, it started because Andrea and I were looking at like, what is the history?

What is the history of this land?

What what is this?

And then Trish comes in and with her indigenous knowledge, it really changed my life, right?

I had a little bit of an understanding of it because Somatics and some of the dance practices I do come from these unnamed indigenous, and eastern sources.

But she really was able to name, and, and just kind of impact me.

I'm not answering the question at all because I'm, so profoundly understanding that how impacted by these, these ideas I was, but I will say it goes back to what you were saying.

All of the bodies and nature, us being one of many, not bigger than.

Right, not better than, that started to integrate into my understanding.

And you guys, can you articulate that better than I did?

Absolutely not.

I think you did a fantastic job.

I just I would add, though, just from being part of that experience with you, is that one thing that Trish, was able to share so effectively with all of us is her is narrative and the narrative of her mother and her grandmother and her great grandmother.

And part of what remnants ended up being was, you know, multimodal experience of the stories as she told them.

And that just real quick, I want to jump back to, one of the questions that Stephanie was answering about, or maybe it was Rosie.

Sorry about consensus building.

And I think one thing that is so powerful about the work that Rose and Stephanie started with the 80 K Climate Stories project, was that narrative is something that everybody in an ideal situation would have control of their own narrative.

So you can go out and do some qualitative research for folks who may or may not be included in the in the bigger story ride in traditional sets of research and get that, you know, raw data, that raw, story from everyone.

And that narrative is part of what makes it potentially really radically democratic act, I love that.

Yeah, I have so many more questions about that.

We are going to have to take a quick break before we do.

I just want to remind listeners that we'd love for you to join our discussion here.

We're talking about art and its many different roles in climate change, both from the perspective of the the creator and the person who's on the other side of that.

So if you'd like to be part of this discussion, give us a call (844) 295-8255.

Or if you're local, (585) 263-9994 if you're watching on YouTube.

And welcome to all of you who are, feel free to leave a comment there.

And we're just going to take a very quick break.

And when we come back, we will continue our conversation about art and climate change and all of that with Stephanie Ashton Felder, Andrea Andrea, Gluckman and Rose Pascrell Beauchamp.

We'll be right back.

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Welcome back to Environmental Connections.

I'm Jasmine Singer, and I'm really lit up by today's discussion about art and just the arts and the way it can impact climate change.

Andrea, I want to turn to you for just a second.

I'm sure you were driving here during our last hour, but I was talking with a climate inclusive psychologist about the role of mental health and and sort of how we can how we can deal with our climate, feelings and grief.

And I know that you and I probably see eye to eye on the fact that the arts can greatly impact that, but I would love to hear a little bit from you about how you think it helps grief.

That is an incredible question.

And yes, your your previous guest was, speaking to that beautifully.

I think, you know, I mean, understanding that grief is always complicated and that climate grief is even more complicated, that, art, in my experience, art centered frameworks for entering difficult discussions.

And it could be about anything.

Again, it could be an individual, issue you're having with someone.

It could be the bigger, difficult, situations that, that we're all contending with.

Like, especially right now, but politically, socially, economically.

But what what, what art allows us to do neurologically again is to, in community, have, enter into difficult conversations without having to necessarily go over all the same analytical points.

And to allow ourselves to actually metabolize some of, of all of this terrifying information that we're getting daily because we I, I think I can assume that you also agree that we live with a tremendous amount of cognitive dissonance, right?

No, I don't know what you're talking about.

Beautifully said.

So that dissonance, is part of what is driving, and really, that's how our grief is manifesting.

So to be able to communally come together and metabolize without even knowing that that's what we're doing.

Yeah, is huge.

But the other thing about art that I think is, is and again, there's neurological evidence for this is that it allows us to imagine things being in a different way.

Is that what success means?

Things being in a different way?

I think the possibility of having that thought is actually the success that the the having.

The third space to be together to communally think and reimagine, because what we're doing now is not working.

We all know that.

But for us to get to a spot where we can in community, really metabolize it enough to feel it, because we all want to avoid default emotional things and then imagine how things could be different.

That's what art can do in a best case scenario, and then think under.

In some ways you're talking about like speculative, like imagining our speculative future.

We talk about this, in our classrooms and I, which is you have all of this anxiety is not the right word.

I was listening to your last, she said, distressed.

I that's so much better, right?

We have all of this climate distress and like it's it's great when we work with our students to say like, let's speculate the future we want to have.

Like, let's talk about how we can design for the future that we want to have.

And that is so empowering that it really helps with that climate distress, because you're empowered to design for the vision of the future that you want to have.

Do you feel like.

And yeah, go ahead.

Rose, please.

No, I just want to say and then this is what I always do with Andrea and Stephanie and bring the body back to it.

Right.

So there's actually the process, even if you're not a dancer, the process of doing that iterative, kind of discussion and making the art is literally using our body, right, which then processes it in a different way.

Yeah.

That's that's a really, I love the idea of, of kind of closing the circle with sort of reminding ourselves that we are, we are just, we are animal bodies in a, in a world full of animal bodies.

Do you feel I'm just curious.

Do you, do you feel, Stephanie, that there is a generational divide between yourself and your students in terms of like, is there almost, a an idealism in that projection of what the world could look like?

You know, I when I, I, I'm not going to pretend to be a professor.

I taught for one semester at the University of Rochester.

I taught, writing last year.

And I just felt like there was, like, I didn't quite understand anymore how to communicate some of these ideas because I'm I'm becoming antiquated in my own view of the world and I, which I love, by the way, because I'm tired and I really want someone else to take over, but I, I, I feel like sometimes it's like a, yeah, like down with capitalism, which would be fabulous.

And, you know, in my opinion.

But I also kind of I'm a very strategic person, and I recognize that we're not going to just like wake up and have, you know, a world without capitalism.

So how do you sort of bridge the divide, especially through the arts, when it comes to having very different approaches to someone who might be like, you know, 30 years younger?

I think I just lean into it like you don't deny that it's not happening.

I know that they look at me and see their mother, right?

Like I'm the same age as their parent.

Yeah.

So I think, like bringing that to the table and and reminding them, like, I'm a Gen Xer, like, you know, I'm generation acts like it's so different than the generation that they're that they're living through.

We had so many different, different pressures.

Yeah.

But do you feel like that becomes part of the inclusivity?

I'm also Gen X very proud of it.

Even though I grew up with terrible Freddy and Jason movies that still give me trauma.

Right?

That's where you went when I said climate, I said, that's stories.

That was in my head.

But do you feel like this becomes part of the inclusivity?

Does it cross generation 100%.

How so?

Yeah.

How does the how does the how do the arts act as a bridge between generational divide?

Yeah, I think the arts act as a bridge because generational divide or class divide or racial divides, right?

Because we all we all have some connection to art, right?

Even if it is, we are.

What are you talking about, your animal brain or your even if it's your animal brain, like we all, one of the first acts we've done as a human is to make a piece of art right when we're scribbling with our crayon, or everybody has an artistic experience in their history.

So I think the arts, whether it's visual art or music, like we all are, we all have that sort of shared experience, and it's very easy to lean into that and just, let all the rest fall away so that there's some kind of commonality.

Rose, did you have anything to add about that?

And.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, you can see me here.

I can't see you.

I just, I just so, you know, I can feel you.

I I'm, I can't see you.

Feel me?

Yeah.

I'm wiggling in my chair.

Got it.

Because I want to see that art.

There is no right answer.

Like, that's the that's the common bridge is that all of us have an answer.

There's no right way to do it.

Artists are trained to just to look at the world, to respond to it, to react to it, to, you know, to exist in it.

Right.

And without one answer, you know, the rest of your schooling you're taught.

It's funny, my students at the University of Rochester will come in and be like, well, what do you want me to do?

And I'm like, what do you want to do?

And they hate that because there's no one answer.

So it allows for space, for us to bridge versus a subject or an area in which it's like, no, I am the giver of the knowledge.

Right?

That's where I think the divide happens.

I'm fascinated, Andrea, by the fact that you said you were an analyst in the in your previous life.

I you know, because as a former theater major, I'll say, like, I cannot imagine doing anything related to science or math.

Like it to me is I I'll, I'll just bust out into interpretive dance.

That would really embarrass me.

And even more so it would embarrass Rose.

So tell me a little bit about like what your thoughts are on how like analysis and the arts can come together in a way that is has way more synergy than I just described my own psyche having.

I don't know, I'd love to see your interpretive dance.

You know, you really want to, well, you know, I feel like, in my experience of of both that it's the same.

It's the same thing.

It's different interpretations.

It's different ways of making meaning.

So I feel like it's organizing information in certain ways that makes sense for certain parts of our brain and for analysis and looking, you know, it's all based on systems.

So if you're looking at political systems or religious systems or systems of belief, then you know, there are ontologies that you already understand.

So you have a common language, you have predictable outcomes.

You can, you know, work within that system.

And but it's all about organizing information and making meaning from it.

And I feel like art, you know, obviously, I don't know if I want to be throw an ontology in there, but it's different, you know, personal and communal experiences of information and meaning making that is also out for the community to, to enter into.

So they didn't feel like very separate things to me.

Okay.

That's interesting.

Well, sticking with this kind of theme of, of numbers and, and the difference one is very quantity and one is very not.

And, you know, I have struggled with getting funding for various projects that I can't quantify the results of.

And I'm just wondering how your, your pointing to to Stephanie here.

I it sounds like you have experience with this.

Can you talk a little bit Stephanie about how you sort of sell this idea when you're trying to do the kind of fundraising that is always necessary for any kind of community project like this?

I feel like I was I empathize with you because I've been there so many times.

You're trying to convince people that this is worth getting behind, but they want to see the data.

Yeah, they want to see the numbers metrics.

They want metrics.

And so we just started collecting metrics.

We realized it was something that we were going to have to really lean into.

So we do that in a variety of ways.

We do it mostly through surveys like it's qualitative data.

Right.

So we survey people.

We also do that with our Adirondack Climate Project.

Like we analyze the stories and we use, an AI program to help us do that.

And then we can look at, you know, what are the top ten words that people are saying?

What is the number one climate anxiety that people say that they're having?

Yeah.

How many people's stories were positive?

How many were negative.

Like we can really start to look a little bit more at the, at the data and the numbers and then use that information to help us get funding.

But at the same time, we still have the narratives that are built around that.

So we have the qualitative pieces that, you know, we just really lean into this as a bigger project to of making the case for qualitative data, for people's stories, for narrative, for, understanding those numbers in a different way.

Right?

Because I, you know, I'm trying to put myself in the perspective of a listener who might be tuning in and, you know, just saying, you know, I want to listen to a show on, you know, rainwater collection or, you know, the future of cultivated meat or something.

And this is about the arts and and what are the arts have to do with climate change.

And, you know, can you speak to the skeptic a little bit, someone who might just think this is just a bunch of people kind of self indulging because, you know, we hear that right there.

So can any, any of you who would like to weigh in on that?

Yeah.

You know, I think historically this has been the problem, like outside of the environmental work, historically with art, the the idea is like, well, how does art change anything?

Right.

So that's the first question.

But, you know, I can't remember where it was.

And Stephanie, I think you were with me in the Adirondacks.

And I remember someone talking about her.

Who knows?

Maybe it was on this show.

Someone talking about, like, it is going to take all of us and all of our all of our professions to to shift to, like, steer the ship a different way.

So, yes, the scientists and the people that are raising cattle in a way that is more environmentally friendly, like that is super important.

And what I do is art and I teach.

Right.

And so how can I use that to shift, you know, with, with my expertise and how can any listener take whatever they do every day and use that to shift, the perspective to really have positive impact on the climate?

It's going to take everyone.

What does that look like in practice for someone listening to this who might say, yeah, I you know, we had a caller in the last hour who was just very frustrated and felt like, you know, I'm sitting here recycling and it's not enough, and I'm angry and I'm worried, like, what does it look like in practice for someone listening to this to get involved in a way that works for their own set of skills and talents and outreach?

Does anyone have any advice for someone who's listening who might want to do that?

Well, I'll go back to your last question.

If I can, then maybe I'll take a stab at that one too.

But you were saying, like, what do you do with the skeptic?

Yeah.

I would recommend the book Your Brain on Art, which is really what happens to your brain when you're engaged in the arts.

So, it's proving that art has a biological need, that our brains grow better as children if we're engaged in the arts that, art heals.

There's some, language in there and some some studies in there about how art actually can heal the brain from trauma.

So if you're skeptical about sort of maybe the science behind the art, that's a really great book to look at.

Cool.

That's a great, great suggestion.

Yeah.

Well, and to answer that other question, I think just making one connection can help someone shift.

So a lot of times we're siloed, right?

Whether it's an art or in other professions.

And so, you know, what I've noticed with our work in the Adirondacks is that I was like, who?

What artists are doing this?

There are some artists, but what about other people?

And what I realized is as soon as we reach out to these big organizations doing work in the environmental, sector, there are artists there are data analysts, there are scientists, there are writers.

Right.

So there is a role for everyone.

And if you don't know how to initiate that, I would say reach out, start volunteering.

The answers will come if you're open to them.

And yeah, sometimes it is just about having those conversations and, and sharing something that the, the, the personal storytelling, the, you know, using the eyes statements and just sharing how something affected you.

All of that can can be a form of resistance.

It can be a form of activism.

And, I am curious, Andrea, you've described yourself as a civic artist.

How do you view your role differently from a traditional artist?

What responsibilities do you think, do you feel like toward the communities?

Right.

Well, I think we're I think all of us in this room are civic artists, if I may say.

What does that mean?

Well, probably a bunch of different things, but for me, it is just trying to kind of reorient the thinking about art, being an artist from what you were, you know, thinking about a skeptic may think of the self-indulgence and the solo work and, you know, and there are there's a classist history to it and a racist history to it, and really trying to reorient and saying that this is art that is, you know, setting up frameworks for people to engage with art, civically.

So basically using art as a tool.

So using art as a tool to again, talk about difficult issues, to engage about climate change, to talk about, redlining, to talk about, again, the eight zillion things that we all still contend with that are complicated.

So it's just a it's another tool and I think everyone can access it.

But I center that and I think of Echo Lab, which is Stephanie and Rose and me at the moment, but and another group of artists as a civic artist collective where we're, we're doing this for, we're doing this for more than the sake of making art, but the making art that's, that's in and of itself can be a wonderful thing.

So no, no shade there.

But this is for a bigger purpose.

We're really trying to figure out how we can work with communities to make meaning of what is happening, because if we can start to try to make meaning out of it and metabolize some of our grief about it, then we can make different choices.

We can try to, you know, we are we are one of I think, 19 species only that.

Are you social, EU social?

You know who are eusocial, which means that we can envision a collective future.

It's a rarity, and it's an all in how we transmit knowledge.

And so art is our tool for doing that.

I we're going to have to start closing up soon, but sort of, piggybacking off of that rose, I, I'm fascinated by the idea of acceptance and acknowledging that we're facing real losses because of climate change, but yet continuing to act meaningfully anyway, as opposed to just like, throwing our hands up and saying, you know, we're we're we're doomed.

So how do you address the role of acceptance without resignation through your performances and movement?

Well, when you say acceptance I this is where I sound a little bit hippie, but I feel like I feel that in my body.

Right.

So that might be meditation.

It might be kind of sitting with something difficult.

So I, I really approach it from the body.

How do I accept understand digest, process and then perhaps respond to inspire someone else.

Right.

The idea of processing or accepting is really different than apathy.

And the body or giving up.

Right.

And so there's a really different body attitudes that we can take, to move into whatever way we want to impact.

That was kind of vague, but that, that appears in my dance and my art, but also just in like my, my body attitude that we all kind of have.

Yeah, I know, I think it's not vague.

I, I appreciate it and I think that, the, the idea of bringing hope into the narrative is it's hard.

I mean, it's hard, but I think, I think you're all doing it just by the actual nature of the work that you've been describing.

You do you two struggle with that at all in terms of hope or, and how the because a lot of people are looking at you, whether they're looking at you in the classroom or they're looking at you through your work, do you feel a sense of responsibility to be hopeful, especially on days you're not feeling that way?

And, and we have, very little time left.

So answer that giant question in about 20s.

Yes.

And in five seconds, the one question we always ask our students at the end of the class is, do you feel more hopeful about the climate than you did when you first started this class?

And 95% of them so far have said, yes, they do.

So I love that that that's a really, really beautiful, way to conclude today's discussion.

I wish we had more time.

I always wish we had more time.

But today I've really enjoyed this discussion with Stephanie Ashton Felder, associate professor of art and director of digital media studies at the University of Rochester.

Andrea Gluckman, photographer, educator, civic artist and Rose past Gorilla Beauchamp, professor of Dance at the University of Rochester.

Today's conversation really reminds us that, you know, climate change isn't just about science or policy.

It's it's about our imagination and our empathy and the stories that we share.

So thank you all so much for joining us for today's environmental connection.

I'm Jasmine Singer, and I'll talk to you next time.

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