The views and opinions expressed into the points are those of the host of the program and its guests.

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Today, on to the point we explore one of the most important economi and technological developments facing communities across America the growth of data centers.

Joining us is Victoria Herring, partner and vice presiden of the Rural Strategies Group, an organization dedicated to advocating for responsible data center development while ensuring local communities have a voice in shaping their future.

I'm Danny Miller, and this is to the point.

Connect with us on our social media pages.

But you know that you also know that you can email m at Donnie Underscore Miller at dot org.

And for this episod and any other additional extras.

Go to dot to the point.

We are talking this morning about one of the most provocative subject to hit this country in decades.

That subject would be data centers.

It travels the gamut from technological advances that are beyond what we though it would be to that grassroots community, concern about things like the environment and water and electricity.

We have, we have with us this morning, Victoria Herring.

Victoria is the partner and vice president of the Rural Strategies Group.

And the goal of your organization is to promote reasonable development of data centers.

Yes.

So our organization is a strategic public affairs and advocacy firm, and we work with both data center developers as well as communities to advocate for responsible data center and development.

Responsible data center development.

So let's make sure we're all on the same page.

Would you explain to folk exactly what a data center is?

Sure.

There are different types o data centers, and typically they are differentiated by size.

However, all of them are the same in that a data center is reall just a large industrial building that is full of servers that store data that we use in our everyday lives.

So if it's as simple as that.

What are the major misconceptions that communities have about data centers?

Well, I wouldn't necessaril classify it as a misconception because I think a lot of the concern that communities have about data centers are valid because of the way that data centers used to be developed.

However, we're fortunate that technology has advanced.

And so some of the commo concerns that we hear in terms of, you know, large utility use, power, water, noise, things like that.

Technology has advanced so that we can develop these and, certainly take those concerns into account and make sure that they are, accounted for in the development process.

So I saw an interview with a gentleman who actually lived in a rural part of this particular county, and he was concerned tha the data centers were so large that they would reduce the value of his property.

And they would damage water for his.

He was a farmer, damaged water for his farm.

And you're saying that that's not necessarily so correct?

There's actually evidence put out by Wells Fargo that shows nearby property values around a data center.

Not only have they not decreased, they've increased.

And when it comes to water, this new technology that we're talking abou is a closed loop cooling system.

What is that?

It works much like the radiator on your car.

So you're just filling up this system one time at the beginning, and then that same wate is just constantly recirculated through the system, and it gets cooled by the chillers on typically the roof of a building.

And then we'll just circulate through the system to cool that server equipment, because it gets quite hot as it operates.

And that's the need for the cooling.

So once that closed loop system is filled initially, many of them are designed that they won't have to be filled again for the life of the building.

And so the continuous water use is not an issue.

So how large is a typical data center?

Again, there are different types.

There are, you know, edge dat centers that are much smaller.

Those are typically used by technology companies that need that data very close to the facility.

I think a lot of the data center developments that we're hearing about, you know, in the media and social media lately are the larger what we call hyperscale data center developments.

And those are actually classified by the amount of power that they're using, not necessarily the square footage.

However, they can be very large campuses, several hundred acres, and are typically multiple buildings on a campus that can range anywhere from, you know, a few tens of thousands squar feet up to 100,000ft or more.

So how is the footprint of a hyperscale data center determined, or the footprin of any data center determined?

Because as I read th conversations from those folks who are concerned about it, they are concerned that data centers are going to impose themselves in their communities and make them unlivable communities, primarily due to the size.

Well.

Again, our firm in advocating for responsible data center development, many of the projects that we work on only target areas that have already been zoned as industrial.

So they're targeted for development.

They're already in an area that sees that has a lot of industrial development.

And so the concerns that a community might have when it comes to traffic or changing the identity of a community are addressed, just, you know by the mere fact that that area has already been designed for this type of development.

You would understand, however, if someone said yes, but that alone doesn't, doesn' change the fact that I'm paying more for water or I'm paying more for electricity.

It's I'm concerned about the noise in my area.

It doe change the character of my area.

What would you say to those folks?

Absolutely.

We always advocate as well for some sort of regulation.

And typically that comes in the form of an ordinance.

And ordinances can cover, again, all those concerns that we're talking about.

You know, some specific examples when it comes to, let's say, water.

Many towns have stated in their ordinance specific to data centers that a they have to use city water, and then that way they are not imposing on nearby wells, and there's no risk of those nearby wells going dry.

Using city water also means that this now becomes income generating for the city, because the developmen will have to use that city water and the city can charge for it.

You know, if there are upgrades that might be required for the water or wastewater system, they're going to pay for those 100% as well.

So the explanations that you're giving are very reasonable.

And the people who are concerned about these issues are very reasonable people.

They are raising the right issues.

They are raising issues, that dea with the balance of the quality of their lives versu what they're hearing about data centers is the issue that data developer data center developers aren't present enough in community conversations.

Why do you think that there is this huge gap?

I think that's part of it.

And as we are seeing, you know, this drastic surge in data, data center development, they also have gone out int communities that are more rural, that have maybe not had this type of experience with development at all, and certainly not the scale of a hyperscale data center development.

And so, yes, the onus is certainly on the developers to get out there as soon as they can.

I know another large issue that people are frustrated with is transparency.

And so certainl the onus is on those developers to share as much information as they can as soon as they can with the community.

So if I'm a community and I'm might be one of those that looks attractive to a data center developer, what should my first questions be to that developer?

Certainly th first question I would ask is, have you talked to our local electric utility and our is the infrastructure in place for the amount of power that you're going to need?

That's another infrastructure upgrade that a responsible develope will pay for all on their own, so that the additiona infrastructure upgrades required for that project will not be passed on to the residential users.

Is there there it seems that what's out of balance here is the information that the developer has versus the information that the community has.

That imbalance, I think, causes a lot of and it appears to be a lac of transparency after a while, because there is that imbalance.

A community fixes that by questioning being present in conversations.

Certainly.

Yeah.

Like I said, the developer, it's certainly the onus is on them to get as much of that informatio out there as soon as possible.

And and as I mentioned as well, I think the difficult part and maybe where the rub lies is that the developer might no have all that information yet.

And, you know, India's in this transparency issue are something that has existed in economic development for years and are a common practice for development in all industries across economic development.

Non-Disclosure.

Correct?

Yes.

Non-Disclosure agreements.

And NDAs are required by companies not because they don't want to be transparent or they don't want the community to know.

It's really because the market is so competitive right now.

As we've talked about, there's been an unprecedented surge in this data center activity.

And, you know, the AI race, as some people refer to it.

And it's more because they don't want their competitors to know what sites they're targeting.

Now, that being said, many developers have taken the stance that they're not going to require officials to sign NDAs anymore.

So I think that is one corner that we have turned in.

This situation that we're facing with data center development right now is you know, responsible developers recognizing this need for transparency and the need to get that information out there as soon as possible.

So quickly, in the few seconds we have left in this first segment.

Developers are not required then to make an overture to the city government first, are they?

I'm asking the question.

Or are they allowed to simply purchase the land, without without talking to the community or the elected officials?

Totally depends on the situation.

You know, in some cases, the city may have specific data center requirements where it's, you know, it may be considered under industrial zoning.

And so if it is a sit that is already zoned industrial and that covers data centers, then they would be good t purchase the land and proceed.

Other communities may have zoning that requires them to answer additional questions.

Or some cities were even seeing specific charter amendments on the ballot that prohibit data centers over a certain megawatt.

Yeah, that's really interesting information.

Well, you join me for the second segment.

I have lots more questions.

To thank you.

We will be right back in just a few moments.

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To the point.

If you missed the first segment and I'm really sorry, if you did, you would have learned an awful lot about data centers and their obligations and our obligation as a community.

When a data center has entered our community for a conversation, we have Victoria Herring with us.

Victoria is a partne and vice president of the Rural Strategies Group.

One of the things that we hear over and over again, and I'd just like to know your experience with this, is that data centers promise economic development, lots of jobs and long term jobs.

But historically, or at least people recite this as fact that historically, those jobs are not long term jobs, or many for that matter.

Your experience with that as what?

Sure.

So hyperscal data centers do create many jobs that are supplied by the labor of building the facility.

And yes, people make the argument that those are not permanent jobs.

They're not long term.

But that's true of every construction job.

Ideally you know, a building gets built and those laborers get to move on.

Now, once a data center is completed, the permanent job that are at a data center very a lot by again, the size and type of data center.

However, when we're talking about rural areas, many of them are struggling to fill the positions that they have currently open in the area anyway.

So what kinds of position are they typically that they're struggling to fill?

Sure.

You mean at a data center or any.

Okay.

So at a data center, the types of.

Well, first of all there's a varying skill levels that would work inside a data center.

You know, you have the high skilled technicians that are going to be the ones in there working on the actual servers.

As we mentioned in the first segment, technology is developing rapidly.

And just like on our phones, you know, they have to be replaced every 3 to 5 ish years.

It's the same with the servers in a data center.

And so there are technicians and they're working on those servers, replacing them really constantly.

And then also just making sur that everything is functioning correctly maintained.

Correct.

But I think I think it would be fair, though, if I were a community member, to to say that those are not long term jobs.

After that, there are far more jobs needed in the construction of the data center.

That would be than would be present afterwards.

By the sheer numbers.

Yes.

And I think the other issue that community members sometimes raise when it comes to jobs is the number of jobs that might be created by a data center versus another type of industry, such as manufacturing or something like that.

I think the thing to keep in mind with a data center is that the jobs, the permanent jobs created by a data center are very high paying jobs, their jobs that any community would really want.

Do you have an average of what those jobs would pay?

I'm sure it depends on it.

Depends on who owns the data center.

And and as I said to, there are a variety of skill levels tha are involved in permanent jobs.

When it comes to a data center, a data center is often have roles that are doing security.

And that's because it's our data.

We want it to be secure.

Sure.

There's, you know, some data centers even have cafeterias on sit for all their employees because many of them are not just a data center.

Their office building for whatever company is there.

So there are, you know, peopl that are inside those buildings working on the data center and working for the company.

You know one of the one of the concerns I've heard as I'm talking t people about this issue is one that I think is, is really fair.

Given the size of the typical data center project and that is technology changes so often, how can a community be comfortable wit the fact that what we're doing today is going to be relevant in ten years?

And we they have the data center.

They they've used the land, they've made the concessions.

That is another concern that we hear often.

And it's on that can absolutely be addressed through ordinances statin they call them decommissioning.

So that if there were a chance that the data center would no longer be needed, there are protections in place for that community to be able to use that building in the future, maybe for something else, for another type of industry, or or in some cases, they're asking them to completely clear the buildin and make the land clear again.

Now, that being said, we will never have less data.

And so as technology advances, mayb the equipment will get smaller and there might not be a need for the the massive size of data centers that we're seeing.

The amount of data will never get smaller.

You don't see this movement going away.

Do you.

Not really.

Yeah.

And and I really do hate tha for communities because I think there is a massive opportunity for rural communities to gain something through these developments.

You know, as we've mentioned, there are opportunitie to put every protection in place for all the common concerns that we hear in terms of noise, electricity and power rates, water and wastewater vibration.

Those can all be mitigated through ordinance that cities can put into place.

And along with that, communities are seeing unprecedented opportunities for financial gain from these types of developments.

I actually just saw a news story this morning in Pennsylvania.

There's a developer that's offering $10,000 to every resident of the community if their data center development is allowed, and and an additional $120 million in community benefits going to the community.

And that's all on top of all the infrastructure required by the sit being paid for by the developer.

And so I would hope that communities would take the time to get educated about the project.

And again, that onus is on the develope to do that with the communities, educate them on the facts as they have them, and and to wor with the community to make sure that all of those concerns can be mitigated.

Yeah That brings me to my next point.

So organizations like yours, are you typically hired by the developer to to do some of that forward conversation, that forward planning?

Typically we are.

Yes.

There have been some case where a community has come to us and engaged us because they're asking, what do we need to do to be prepared?

How can we make sure tha these safeguards are in place?

If a data center developer comes knocking at our door.

Yeah, yeah.

That was really my concern.

Sometimes communities are not.

They don't have the resource to engage with folks like you.

They don't know that they can engage with folks like you.

But clearly someon who sort of leads the parade, so to speak, someone who comes in and makes the conversation a sensible conversation and a less scary conversation would be beneficial in this regard.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

We often work as that mediator between the community and the developer and again, advocate for responsible development so that everyone wins.

Yeah.

So in your experience with data centers, are you finding that that people are happy when they're done?

Are they disappointed when they're done?

Is there a mix of both.

And what what remedies are there out there?

If a developer is just being callous in the way he approaches the community.

Again it varies.

It depends.

It depends on the developer.

Loudoun County, Virginia is often cited as the home of where the majority of data centers are in the United States.

Data centers now make up ove half of their property tax base.

And as a result of that, you don't see potholes in Loudoun County.

You see brand new schools that are fully staffed.

And so in that regard, people are certainly happy with the developments.

Now, it doesn't mean it doesn't come with some of the disruption that again, come with any type of development.

Construction disruption is certainly something that absolutely happens.

Sure.

And there are ways fo communities to safeguard against even that as well.

You know, I've seen sites that do thing even as small as putting a car wash at the exit of the construction site so that the equipment isn't tracking mud onto their city roads.

You know, there are little things like that that a developer can do to make sure that they are not disrupting the community.

You know, we talke earlier also about communities concerned that they'll lose their identity.

And coming from a rural community myself and advocating for a rural communities I certainly understand that.

Another thing that I have advocated for data center developers to do is to help a community, and pay for a comprehensive plan so that they can redo that and make sure that as the community grows with this development, they're growing in the way that they want to, and they can maintai their identity as a community.

And the developer, again, gets to be part of that.

Okay.

So what would you say we have about it?

We have about 60s left.

What advice would you leav or would you give to communities who are really concerned about this, realizing that these communities are heavily invested in the places they live, that especially in this part of the state, there are generation of families living in the same locations.

And this is scary.

What what would your final words to those folks be?

My final words would be to not be afraid to voice those concerns to the developer, but also to come with an open mind and allow them the chance to mitigate those concerns.

And then to also remember that this is really the new industrial revolution.

And think about maybe communities that weren't accepting of past technological advances.

You know, communitie that didn't have a railroad or interstates going through them.

What's happened to those communities?

And d we want to take this chance to allow our communit to maybe not grow, if that's not what the community wants to do, but to maintain.

And to understand that they have a strong voice in this process.

And there's an opportunity for their voices to be heard in this process.

Absolutely.

Again, don't hesitate to voice those concerns to a developer and talk through ways tha those concerns can be mitigated.

Because really the ball i in their court to be.

Able to.

And there are folks like you out there to help this conversation.

Thank you so much for joining us.

I really appreciate your time, and thank you for joining us as well.

And we will see you next time.

On to the point.

The views and opinions expressed into the points are those of the hos of the program and its guests.

They do not necessaril reflect the views or opinions of public media.

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Thank you.