>> From WXXI News.

This is Connections.

I'm Evan Dawson.

Our connection this hour was made in an elementary school principals first year at her new school.

When Kim Luckett Langston signed on at Hazelhurst Elementary School near Jackson, Mississippi.

The overwhelming majority of students were below grade level when it comes to reading, according to the New York Times.

Principal at Langston diagnosed the problem as students suffering from what she called a b t ain't been taught, among other issues, kindergartners would start their school journeys not knowing their letters from their numbers, she said.

That was ten years ago.

Today, Mississippi has clawed itself from one of the lowest performing states when it comes to education, to one of the best places where a child living in poverty can be set on an academic path to success.

So what did Mississippi do that other states have not?

Well, it changed the way reading is taught.

For one thing, it measures students progress toward proficiency.

It rewards schools that show improvement, and the state takes a long role in telling students what to do, including approving curriculum.

If Mississippi can do it, can other states.

What about New York?

And to drill down even further.

What about places like Rochester?

Education advocates are hoping that the state will have a role in helping struggling students.

Right now, they are fighting for funding for a specialized tutoring program in the New York state budget.

It's called hit h I t high impact tutoring.

Students who receive hit meet in small groups with professionally trained tutors during school hours.

And there's research on this that showing that hit is more effective than standard tutoring models and students who dedicate 3 to 15 months to hit can see a 30% increase in reading proficiency.

This our our guests are here to talk about what it is, how it works, why they say it works, and why they think it could be a big change in high needs districts like Rochester.

And I'd like to welcome our guests in studio is Ashara Baker, who is a parent advocate.

Welcome back to the program.

Thanks for being here.

>> Thank you.

Nice to be here.

>> And joining us on the line, Jacqueline Martin Martell Jackie is executive director of education Reform Now New York.

Jackie, welcome.

Thanks for being with us.

>> Thank you for having me.

>> And Yvette Russell is with us, chief strategy officer for the Read Alliance.

Yvette, welcome.

Thanks.

Thanks for being with us.

>> Thank you for having me.

>> So al-Sharaa, the first question is, why are we here?

Well, we're here because we're a few days away from a state budget maybe, or maybe a few weeks away.

And this is an important moment for what you've been advocating for.

Why?

>> So the origin story really took place about three and a half years ago.

Uh, the governor, Governor Hochul, had allocated initially in her budget proposal, uh, over $20 million, specifically around high impact tutoring.

And that investment didn't land.

It didn't get passed through in that year's legislative cycle.

So what did I do reactively as a parent who is continuously paying out of pocket for tutoring for my daughter, I called the Senate Education chair and I blatantly said I would be sending the education committee my bills for tutoring for the next year.

Until I do that.

Uh, did I or can I.

>> Can you?

>> You can do whatever you want to do, but we had a very nice and candid conversation.

And from that point, we really just started to build a rapport off of off of the frustration that parents like myself were feeling coming out of the pandemic, knowing that our kids were struggling and, you know, waiting on a slow cycle to happen within the public education system.

>> So, uh, first of all, I love the idea that you're just going to send the bills to them saying, look, you passed the money a few years ago.

>> You pay it.

Oh, yeah.

>> I don't I doubt they're going to do that, but it gets their attention.

Now the question is what's going to happen here.

And we're going to be talking more about that.

But let's back up a little bit.

You're you have a child now who's nine.

>> Yes.

>> And how is your child doing.

>> She's she's thriving due to the village that I've had to build out.

Uh, we've been attending tutoring for over three and a half, four years, so I've been paying out of pocket, uh, building up a huge bill in my mind from savings.

Um, and she is getting the support she needs through evidence based materials, through a lot of science of reading, which isn't consistently offered throughout the school system across New York and across the state.

>> Um, and that we've had conversations about science, of reading it is kind of a whole other conversation.

>> Absolutely.

>> But it is pretty remarkable to see a state like Mississippi all of a sudden flip everything and get near the top of the rankings with how kids are doing, not just because they moved more towards science of reading, but certainly they'll tell you that that's a big part of it.

>> Yes.

>> You see a lesson there.

>> I mean, the lesson is you need to make the right investments and the right investments is literally in this bill that we have lined out.

We are we're really trying to amplify across the state that there's an opportunity, if there's money that's going to be allocated, we now have the opportunity to ensure that this design of this bill lands right in every district, for every kid, and Jacqueline will talk more about the guardrails that we've really specified.

And we're advocating for at this moment.

>> So five years ago, would you have known what hit is?

>> I was doing hit without knowing what hit was?

>> Tell me more about that.

>> Uh, as a parent, you know, you I worked previously at after school programs.

I was actually a literacy director with the Boys and Girls Club of Rochester.

Ironically.

And there's a huge difference between being a drop in site or a homework help site versus providing high impact tutoring, high impact tutoring.

You are consistently meeting with the same tutor, and that tutor is well trained.

They know how to pivot.

They know where to pause.

For students who are struggling, uh, it's in a smaller group setting.

So you really receiving not only that, that one on one or 1 to 3 model, but you're also having a lot of individualized learning at the same time.

So I mean, I was doing it from the very beginning.

I had to seek out a private tutor and I tried a number of different avenues.

I went to tutor centers, I went to retired district teachers, I went to, um, fresh new bright eyed graduates out of teaching college.

I went everywhere and I landed in, uh, Walworth, New York at a horse ranch because they, they do remarkable work and it happens to work specifically for my daughter.

But I digress to say that I was doing hit because I knew, you know, once a week wasn't going to work for her.

She needed a consistent time frame.

And with kids at a young age to even get them to be interested in learning to have that routine and structure is what's core.. >> And what you did was post-pandemic, right?

>> Correct.

>> What put this issue at the forefront of so many places across the country was the pandemic.

And of course, it was a podcast series and some other reporting.

But during the pandemic, when a lot of families were, you know, seeing kids kind of fall behind, it exposed that, well, if you're if you're a wealthy family and you didn't like how things were going, maybe you just hired somebody to, to jump in and help.

And if you don't have those resources, you don't.

And then your children fall further behind.

And that just kind of took what was already a gap and made it wider, but it also made it stark for people to see it.

So for you, you start post-pandemic, but you're kind of without even knowing what hit is.

You're kind of doing that for your daughter and you saw the results.

How quickly would you say.

>> She so she was attending through the summer and again, a lot of money.

So I'm like, I have to see that this is actually effective.

Yeah.

Once she started that fall school year, you could just tell a difference between her, her working independently and then remarks from her teachers.

So at that point, I was like, okay, well, I guess we're all in.

We're going to have to figure some things out.

And I will say that, you know, there are schools and districts that, again, would say that they provide tutoring.

But again, there is a huge difference with the model that we're really trying to promote.

Um, you know, just the capacity of educators and also the time span that happens during the school day.

This is something that should really take place either before, during the school day with a consistent trained tutor or after school.

>> So before I bring in your colleagues, one other question on that.

Then if you get this passed, if this gets all the way through and the money's actually there, are there people who could fill the role of, of hit in schools across the state?

There's going to have to be, I would presume there would have to be hiring going on.

And are there people who are trained and ready to go do that right now?

>> So, you know me, I never move alone.

Maybe I move in here alone and I interview with you.

We have, uh, education reform now has hosted a tutoring coalition for the last three and a half years.

I connected with them when I was on my parent advocacy journey.

So there's over, I want to say almost 80 different high impact tutoring providers that are located across New York State.

>> Okay.

>> And they're actively doing programs, but they all have the capacity to come in and support and train or expand and scale out their programs that already exist and operate.

And you'll hear more from Yvette Russell about that.

>> So let me turn to Yvette Russell, Chief Strategy Officer for the Read Alliance.

Can you tell me more about that?

First of all, Yvette?

>> Sure.

Read Alliance was founded in 2000.

Um, and ironically enough to address the literacy crisis then, um, and with the founders and vision is really what a Sauer is talking about, which was to make sure that children who needed additional reading help and families who wanted to support them had access to tutoring services and that they could be offered free.

Um, so for the past 26 years, read has really brought together younger students who are learning to read and paired them with high school students who are paid and trained to tutor them.

It's one on one.

It's consistent support using proven strategies.

And it not only helps kids become stronger readers, it also empowers the teens.

You know, they are showing up as mentors.

They're earning wages.

Oftentimes, they're using those wages to support their families.

Those dollars are spent in their neighborhood.

Um, yeah.

So for 26 years, I mean, we've served over 24,000 children, 23,000 teens, and that includes communities here in New York City, Rochester, Buffalo, Pennsylvania, Maryland and Oregon.

The work that's out there is critical, I think, um, being able to have focused programs who are intentional about making sure that every child has the support that they need is a win-win for every community.

Um, on average, the students who participate in our program are going to improve at least a full grade level.

And the majority of them are coming to us already behind in their third grade reading, testing scores.

So this is a foundational program.

We're focused on phonics.

You know, al-Sharaa was talking about her child and the support that was needed.

I also am a parent of four children who all went through the New York City public school system.

And I know what it feels like to really want to roll up your sleeves and find the time to tutor your child yourself, but also what the cost is when you don't do that or you're unable to do that.

Um, with Read Alliance, this program operates during after school.

It's 15 weeks.

This is where the high impact comes in.

It is 3 to 4 times a week during the school year.

And we also run a summer program as well.

Uh, we use the evidence based curriculum and the students again, who are coming to the program are students who are already behind.

So the exciting thing is watching the pair, the trained team and the young student work together.

Um, during this time, especially during after school.

And you would think that one, there's a stigma already that some of these kids come to the school with, right?

Come to the after school program with like the little kids know that they're behind, they already know it.

They say it, they demonstrate it in different ways during the program.

And then they've got this cool team who comes in and is spending dedicated time with them in a trained way.

Um, and an evidence based curriculum, being able to support them reading and sounding out words and watching how the child's eyes light up when they see their tutor, knowing that they're asking, you know, Sara mentioned having consistency, being able to see that same team arrive every day to spend time with that child is not only something that we get excited about because of the relationship building that's happening, but because of the outcomes we're seeing the improvement, we're seeing the growth and districts like Rochester, um, are, are really being able to talk about this now.

Um, we did a pilot there last summer and it was incredible.

It was the first time actually that we worked with.

We typically work with kindergarten first and second grade students with the city council.

Um, thankful.

We're really thankful to have partnered with, um, Rochester City Council with, they did was to really look at what are the things that they want to have improved for their community and how to go about making that happen.

And, um, Read Alliance was able to partner with them and be able to support the goals that they have.

Um, and being able to elevate the literacy skills of the students that are in the community.

Um, some of those numbers that we look at were devastating, you know, um, Vice President Harris, Council Member Harris and um, city Council member Michael Patterson being able to have them link arms and really reach out.

They, I mean, they called us downstate, you know, they reached out to us and said, hey, we see what you're doing.

We see the data, we've talked to other communities, we've talked to other council members and superintendents, and we need that support here.

Um, we don't go into communities and say, we have the answer.

We go into communities and say, we're a partner.

Let us support the strategies that you already have in place.

>> So before I turn to Jacquelyn Martell, Yvette, just a couple of things here.

Um, you know, when you, when you mentioned and I think Ashar mentioned science of reading for people who are not sort of deep in the weeds on this, the way I would describe it, and maybe that will correct me if I'm mis describing it is um, it is I think a lot of people will think, well, everybody gets taught phonics.

That's like, that's been the thing forever.

And that's not exactly right.

It's not that phonics, um, might be totally absent from a curriculum, but for a number of years, there were a lot of different approaches to how kids read and how to teach.

And it moved away from some evidence based models.

It moved away from phonics and the states and the places that are moving back towards, um, evidence based models and kind of back to the basics and starting with phonics.

Again, that's not the whole story in Mississippi.

We're working on bringing on to this program.

A woman who helped build an architect, some of that.

And we hope to do that soon, but it's a big part of it.

And so, um, I just want to ask you that, you know, when when you talk to council members in Rochester or board members in Rochester, do you ask them, do you say like, well, like, where are you guys on phonics or reading or where are you guys on science of reading?

Um, and, and just kind of take their temperature on that.

>> Yeah, I think the, the real temperature check for me is what are you willing to do to help support the students that, that are in need for reading support?

And what have you done already?

I think for us, for Read Alliance, it's important for us to be able to elevate the fact that teaching children, you know, the the letter recognition, teaching them the sounds that the letters make, teaching them what words, you know, sounding out a word and what that strategy is.

And also working with the school leadership, working with the teachers.

The program is overseen by two licensed teachers during the after school time.

So those teachers are experts.

They're coming in.

And the things that I hear from the teachers aren't just about, you know, the confidence that's being built when the students are able to literally sound out words and turn those words into sentences, the greatest thing that I hear is that when they're back in the classroom during the daytime, they're seeing their students participate more.

They're raising their hand.

They're actually challenging themselves to read more, more difficult texts.

Um, so yeah, so we have been using just, I mean, honestly, like the phonics based learning has been a part of reads since its inception because of the impact that it has building, being able to build on those foundational skills.

We've had our, you know, program model validated multiple times, most recently by Dr.

Susan Newman over at NYU, um, School of Education, who not only looked at the, the curriculum that we're using and the model that we have for teaching reading, but also looked at our Teams and by virtue of them teaching realized, um, doing assessment that they were improving a full grade level in their foundational reading skills as well, just by tutoring the children that they're working with.

So, um, when we talk about, you know, those foundational reading skills, there are a lot, there's a lot that goes into it.

And, you know, sometimes I get asked, you know, how can kids, how can teenagers be the ones that are tutoring when there are teachers who are challenged with that because they're, they're learning a very structured program.

It is consistent.

It is overseen by teachers.

It is a program model that has a deep impact.

And we are in partnership.

We are not saying that a teen is going to come in and teach a child who has never read before.

We're saying that teens are coming in and they're trained to support the developmental reading that that child is bringing to the classroom, and that goes across the across the board, whether it's during after school or in the summer program as well.

>> The executive director of the Education Reform now, New York, is Jacquelyn Martell and the current state of high impact tutoring in the legislature, as I understand it.

Um, two houses, the Senate and Assembly, have included funding for hit in their one House proposals, $9 million in a bill from the Senate.

The Assembly's a little less fully fleshed out with implementation.

Um, first of all, is that correct, Jacqueline?

Where do things stand?

>> Yes.

That's correct.

So, uh, it was initially in the executive budget, uh, for $9 million.

And it's in both the Senate and Assembly proposals.

>> Okay.

And so the legislature in the state aren't going to sign off for a, you know, multi-million dollar program for tutoring.

That's just a voucher for parents and go hire your own tutor.

Again, we've been talking about the structure of it.

What are the guardrails that you think have to be there?

And what are we seeing that's going to ensure that this money is spent in a way that brings in tutors where they're needed and brings it in, in an evidence based way?

>> Yes.

Um, and so when we wrote this piece of legislation about three years ago, uh, we were modeling it off of a earns chapters, we've seen hits scaled out in other states, including Colorado and DC.

And what we've learned is that in order for this to work, implementation will be key.

And this is why the legislation was actually authored.

And in the legislation itself, it has the guardrails, um, which consist of having consistent and frequent tutors.

So tutors meet with students at least three times per week for a minimum of a ten week cycle.

Um, it has to be also low in ratio.

Uh, so a trained tutor works with 1 to 4 students in a small group.

Um, and it also has to be relationship based.

And so tutors are trained to build strong supportive relationships.

Uh, and then also it has to be data driven and so tailored to students needs and complements the curriculum and goals.

And then also it has to happen either right before the school day, during the school day, or immediately after.

Um, and so these are the guardrails that we are pushing the legislature on, um, as well as the state education department, because these are crucial in making sure that it is actually effective and evidence based.

>> So what would prevent this from happening then?

Jacqueline?

I mean, you know, you heard us say that a few years ago, there was supposed to be money for this.

It didn't kind of get spent.

It didn't happen.

What would block it this time?

>> Uh, well, you know, I would say to your point, I think three years ago, we were in a very different space.

Uh, we did not have the support of both the Senate and the Assembly, which is why it was initially struck down.

Um, and now we've worked for the past few years, uh, in New York, specifically with partners like al-Sharaa, Read Alliance, uh, and providers across the state, uh, as well as researchers to, uh, who are leading on this work to really build a movement behind this.

Uh, and so we've done a lot of work, uh, in engaging legislators, uh, through advocacy to make sure that they hear our voices and understand the implications.

If this is not implemented.

And so right now we're in a very good space with it being in, like I said, both the Senate and the Assembly.

Um, and I think that the, the next hurdle would be, again, the implementation of it.

The good thing is that also New York City actually has a high impact tutoring program in place now.

Uh, and it's through expanded schools and the partnership with New York City public schools.

So I think to date, they've served over 11,000 students across 106 schools.

From my understanding, and the point of this legislation specifically is that we saw that, uh, the city was providing this evidence based intervention, which accelerates student learning.

And we know that it works.

We've seen it in over 41 states, uh, but also we needed something to happen on a statewide level, particularly in districts like Rochester or Buffalo and the like.

And we do have providers who represent those districts.

And again, the models can be a bit different, but as long as they're adhering to the guardrails is what we are mainly focused on.

>> All right.

So we've been talking about high impact tutoring and what may be rolling out in the state as soon as this year.

If things go the way that our guests would like to see.

I want to grab a phone call from Chris in Geneva with a thought on some tutoring experience there.

Hi, Chris.

Go ahead.

>> Hi, Evan.

I just wanted to say that I love what these, uh, your guests are saying about the importance of tutoring.

Geneva's a little smaller, so we, we're often able to be a little bit more of a, uh, an example of things we've been doing a tutoring program for seven years with, uh, in great partnership with Hobart William Smith Colleges, where we formed a tutor corps that has per term 40 or 50 kids who come into the day, boys, boys and girls Club locations, establish relationships with the kids.

There too.

They're trained by their education department and by our staff, and we work on reading, obviously, the school, but we go a little bit further in the holistic support that we started an infant program called Toddler Time, and to get the kids from age one, two and three into the gym every morning.

And within there, there's elements of Pre-reading that are part of that.

There's also food to support the family a little bit more.

And then sometimes we go beyond the school district with our tutors into contact using Khan Academy to give some of these kids an alternative way of learning than they're offered in school, where they're clearly struggling.

Uh, Khan Academy, I don't know if you're familiar with it, but it's a pretty wonderful thing that is really great for kids who are struggling in the traditional round up the adolescents and put them in all, all in one room and say, this is the way you learn.

Um, but the relationship with Hobart and William Smith, the tutoring that they're doing, a kid who's in town here learning psychology, it's great for them to tutor the same kid for four years and watch them grow as well.

It's good for the good for the tutors.

We're paying the students, uh, minimum wage for the about six hours a week.

Uh, and we're able to raise that money for it, but it's, uh, it to me is getting beyond the traditional school day, sometimes getting beyond the traditional school methods because the kids are failing at that.

And, but working in total support of the school district and, and the families food and diapers for infants leads to early reading.

Believe it or not, it's a great thing down here.

Very proud of AWS.

My, my, uh, my alma mater.

>> Chris, you know, the guests have been talking about the importance of a consistent relationship.

So not a tutor once a week, once a month, a different person each time, but relationship building.

How important has that been where you are.?

>> Absolutely.

Our kids wait at the door for their tutor.

They grab them and it's we're a little bit, you know, we're smaller.

So 2 or 2 or 3 to 1 is more common than more.

Sometimes it's for special kids who have really struggling will get one on one.

And that sometimes that tutor has stayed for three years and just fallen in love with the kids.

The kids have fallen in love with them.

The other thing we do is then take the kids, prepare them for employment as they're better readers.

They're better presented and Wegmans and we have a great program down here to get kids working.

And the combination of all of these things early reading, tutoring, rubbing shoulders with college kids has led to a spike in the number of kids we get into college with.

Wegmans, Wegmans financial support as well.

It's a overall thing, and more money coming from the state to support this is key.

Key.

>> Chris, thank you as always for the phone call.

Appreciate that.

Chris is in Geneva talking about what is happening there.

What do you make of what you just heard from Chris al-Sharaa?

>> It sounds like a beautiful foundation.

Again, this is a community that isn't waiting for the state to pass anything because we've been waiting for years.

We are on the brink of something that can be, uh, equitable across our state.

But in the meanwhile, it's great to hear those bright spot stories where there are villages that are assembling and are providing this kind of work.

I've seen it in Buffalo as well.

When I was doing a lot of accountability work around what could be possible with different forms of legislation, whether it was within early literacy, numeracy or comprehensive with high impact tutoring.

Buffalo was one of those places where I really pointed to their Buffalo Equity Task Force coalition, in which they had every stakeholder that you could name who impacts the Buffalo Public Schools education system, and they were all in one room and they all determined one goal.

And every year they knock off a goal.

So whether it was a bus driver shortages post pandemic, whether it was, again, addressing learning loss and forming a tutoring program, they did those things.

They have a great relationship through Suny Buffalo, which then builds a natural pipeline for a lot of their trained tutors, who are then working directly with Buffalo Public Schools.

>> Chris, thank you for the phone call.

I've got a couple of emails I'm going to share after our only break, and we'll come back and talk about what comes next here with Ashara Baker, a parent advocate.

Jacquelyn Martell is with us, executive director of education Reform Now, New York.

Yvette Russell is the chief strategy officer for the Read Alliance, and we'll come right back on Connections.

I'm Evan Dawson Friday on the next Connections, the president lashing out at the pope and the vice president saying that Pope Leo should stay out of American political affairs.

Pope Leo responding that he is not afraid of the Trump administration and that he has a duty to the people of the world to speak the truth.

So what's going on?

We'll talk about it Friday.

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>> This is Connections.

I'm Evan Dawson when I listen to the Soul to Story podcast series on the subject of of reading, it was really interesting to hear how long it took.

Some people who were involved with policy, involved with curriculum, how long it took them to say, we got this wrong.

And that's not easy to do, especially when we're talking about kids reading education, something where there's already a lot of inequality and nobody wants to be wrong.

No one wants to feel like they made a decision that sent kids in the wrong direction.

But if you listen to that podcast series, eventually people get their.

And I don't know that that is in the same category as hit, but it's interesting that when when I was reading about it before this program, there are some districts that have basically said, you know, I'm not sure we need it or haven't advocated hard for it.

So I don't know what what Rochester is going to say.

I don't have anyone from the school board.

I will say, though, the school board president in Rochester is very big on the science of reading.

Very, very keen on saying, what have we gotten right?

What have we gotten wrong?

What does the evidence say and how do we go forward?

So al-Sharaa, what's your perspective on, you know, working with the district that you want?

You want to see, you know, take some ownership of making sure we're going in the right direction on something that can be sensitive where people might, you know, it's not easy for people to say like, hey, you know, maybe we didn't steer this in the right direction for a while.

So what have you seen?

>> Well, first of all, uh, Commissioner Simmons, she's.

>> The president of the board president.

>> She's remarkable.

We've had beautiful conversations about the possibilities of Rochester City School District students.

So I know that we we definitely have a great champion at the head of the Board of Education.

I'd say that in looking across the state, because we're talking about this equitable piece, we know that there are so many programs that have already launched within New York City.

Um, it was already mentioned on this call.

They've made great investments within the science of reading.

I think they're almost into year 2 or 3.

They've made investments within numeracy with math.

They already have existing piloted programs and existing programs such as the Read Alliance, well established within a lot of significantly struggling borough districts.

So with that being said, what happens to upstate New York districts that have, you know, very either small capacity or, you know, they have a model.

And time and time again, it kind of shows that it's kind of falling short and it's not, again, a finger pointing, uh, conversation as much as it's, you know, let's talk about how we can get this implemented in the right way.

And these things have to be done with fidelity because when they are done, you have kids reading, you have kids building up confidence in the classroom.

You have great relationships with teachers as well as outside providers.

And again, as I point to what happened in Buffalo, that is that is the the view of autonomy.

That's what it looks like to to step in and either train BS educators or have a supplemental supplementary model where you have outside providers coming in, building up that great relationship, helping support struggling students, which creates less, you know, less of a struggle during the school day, essentially.

>> I don't know if you've met the superintendent in Rochester.

Dr.

Rosser's been here for about nine months and he's only been here about nine months.

So he kind of has the advantage of saying, hey, everything that happened before me was before me.

>> You know?

>> So if something wasn't working, you know, it's not necessarily on his hands.

He's there to try to fix a lot of problems.

I would think that would free him up to say, hey, this idea didn't work or this idea is not working with reading or math or otherwise.

I don't know if you've met the superintendent.

>> Uh, he we're going to be meeting very soon, and I'm really excited again, I all of my advocacy comes back home.

So again, I work with partners within New York City.

I travel across the state supporting parent advocates, but I'm so conscious about what is happening within my city.

I know that we have single digit outcomes and nothing has nothing has worked.

>> Well.

>> Hold on a second.

Define that a little bit more.

What's a single digit.

>> Outcome?

>> Uh, and this, this isn't, um, updated material, but again, you have, we're, we have students that are significantly low within math.

So I think there's maybe 4% or 5% of eighth graders who.

>> Math proficiency.

>> Who tested proficient.

So they understand the basics of eighth grade math content.

So there's about 95% or maybe 90% of, uh, eighth grade students who are grappling and who are struggling.

And that's not a finger pointing statement that that's just the data.

That's the number.

Um, so until we get out of our heads and really just speak towards the number and look at designs, look at models, look at programs that are actually working, I think, you know, we'll be in a better place.

>> All right.

Before we go back to the phones, let me just ask Yvette and Jacqueline a little bit about that concept.

So Yvette, let me let me start with you on this one.

I, I know there's been a lot of money spent in American education on reading approaches and curriculums and models that are just not as effective as the science of reading and basic phonics.

That happened for years.

It was not easy to get people to change course.

I wonder what you've experienced with that.

And do you find humility out there in school districts, in people who are policy makers to say, maybe we got this one wrong.

Maybe we do need to pivot?

>> Yeah.

Let me just say first that, um, Commissioner Simmons actually supported Read Alliance.

She was part of the support that funded the teacher wages for the teachers to work during the summer pilot.

Um, last summer in Rochester.

And we have sat at the table with Superintendent Rosser and he's very well aware of the program.

And we've been trying to figure out a way to, um, you know, work within the system.

And the other programs that they have, I think, you know, being a part of a district's literacy strategy is always the way we want to move forward, linking up in ways that make sense and that have impact, right?

Um, the, it just, it baffles me how we're always ready to spend money in ways that don't serve the youngest people in our communities who are going to be those leaders next, right?

So being able to come up with dollars to fund programs that are going to ensure that the future is not only brighter, it's smarter.

Like these kids have potential.

Our, the, um, early literacy students, you know, um, al-Sharaa you were talking about some of the, the numbers out in, in, um, Rochester.

I think it's like only 15% of Rochester's, um, third grade students are proficient in reading.

Like that's something that we need to pay attention to.

Right.

And people are, but the dollars need to say that we need to be shouting that the dollars need to be able to be at the table the same way the conversations are happening, right?

Um, do we find humility?

You know, the program has been around for 26 years and for 26 years, there's a cost to the program for the program, not to the parents and the children who participate in the program.

Right?

So yes, there are dollars out there that support programs like Read Alliance.

A lot of our funding comes from foundations.

A lot of our, um, support from school districts really do support the team.

The, um, teacher wages.

And we've gotten dollars through the city.

We're part of it here in the city, you know, and other communities out in Pennsylvania, it is school districts.

It is a combination of other nonprofits working together to ensure that programs like Read Alliance can be built into the ecosystem that already exists.

Um, because the outcomes are phenomenal.

And when >> When we talk about the teams who are on that threshold of moving into, you know, life beyond their their K through 12 experience, we need to make sure that they're prepared and equipped to be able to do so successfully.

And part of that means being able to read through the things that everyday life, a wonderful experience for most of us, you know?

So, um, oftentimes the teams are in our program are able to look back and remember when they were that they had a similar experience with learning that, um, the student that they're tutoring is having.

And for some of them, they're still struggling.

You know, it isn't a, it isn't a, um, one year thing.

This is a multi year.

Like, let's really commit those dollars in a way that can demonstrate an impact.

And let's make sure that it's consistently happening.

I think that's the most important thing is that, you know, with an administration there comes funding, there comes, you know, ideas and this whole effort and policies to support them.

And then at administration shifts, and so does the focus.

So, um, Ashar mentioned a few, you know, just community based organizations up in Western New York that are really keeping this, uh, topic around early literacy and literacy, period, um, alive and it's happening, you know, whether or not there are, there is a statewide push to make it happen.

>> Uh, anything you want to add there?

Jacquelyn Martell.

>> I would just, you know, I would say the, my key focus, uh, in working with the legislature, legislature, uh, and when we wrote this bill initially with Senator Natalia Fernandez and Assembly member Brian Cunningham was that I wanted it to be rooted in evidence based practices.

Um, and, you know, at this point, the results across New York specifically for hit, um, show that I mean, in New York City alone, students receiving hit, they made extraordinary gains.

It's working more than half achieved over a year and a half of growth in just one school year.

And in Ela, we've seen a 12 point increase in students reaching benchmark, uh, in Syracuse, we see we've seen results.

88% of young students improve their phonics skills.

And also one of the bright spots in Buffalo, uh, as well.

And so, you know, when I think about this and when I'm talking to legislators, I'm very candid, like, let's make investments that actually work.

And also, let's take a step, a step back and see what's not working so that we can address those things as well.

I'm not of the belief that you should be pouring more money into a system where they're not optimal outcomes, because quite frankly, what trajectory does a child have if they're coming out of the public education system, not able to do, uh, basic math or being able to read what type of life are we really setting them up for?

Um, and so, you know, to me, real progress isn't theoretical.

It's happening now, uh, in areas like Rochester, uh, in areas across the state, um, and passing this bill specifically means that we're taking what's already working and making sure that every student across New York, including in Rochester, has access to it because our students, quite frankly, deserve proven solutions.

And we have a responsibility to deliver.

Uh, and so that's why for me, it's very, very important that we get this bill across the finish line, that we get the dollars, the $9 million allocated, that we get that through the finish line, you know, uh, and that we also continue to up uplift, uh, programs and providers that are doing the high quality work.

You had one of the callers who called in and talked about kind of this wraparound model.

There isn't necessarily a one size fits all, but as long as those guardrails are adhered to, that's going to make all the difference.

But I think what we've seen is that, you know, there are approaches to this that are different in different districts, uh, that work for the community.

And I think that we need to make sure that we're also not, you know, amplifying parent voice, student voice, because as you know, uh, that mentioned oftentimes the students aren't even necessarily listening to.

And, you know, one thing that we saw with high impact tutoring specifically, uh, scaled in DC, uh, which struggled with chronic absenteeism for quite some time is that we saw improvement in student attendance as a byproduct of a hit being implemented.

And that's because students are coming in feeling more confident and feeling excited to learn.

And, you know, that's really what I think I'm most excited about when I'm thinking about this, making it through, uh, this budget.

But then also the next phase of implementation.

>> So let me get back to some feedback here.

I got an email and got a phone call.

We'll start with the phone call and this is Howie in Rochester.

Hi, Howie.

Go ahead.

>> Hi.

Thank you.

So, um, it sounds wonderful and I'm so glad you're passionate and working hard towards these these goals.

I'm wondering first how much money would be coming to Rochester.

And if money does come to Rochester, who is the leader to make sure that what money comes has some accountability measures for real outcome?

Because my experience over 35 years in Rochester, understanding the school district.

We have no accountability or at least very little are measures are misguided.

And if you really get money to come to Rochester for what you're talking about, how will it be measured so we can know that it works?

>> Yeah.

Fair question, Howie, again, I think Yvette Russell $9 million is currently in one of the bills or one of the plans.

So I don't know if it's going to be nine, $20 million, whatever the final number is.

Do we know how much would go to a district like Rochester?

Yvette.

>> I actually don't know, um, how much would go to the district, but I can speak to measurement tools.

>> Yeah.

>> Please do.

Yeah.

For us, it is a critical part like that.

Data driven.

Um, impact and the way that we evaluate the program model is to make sure that we are assessing the beginning, the middle, and the end.

There's a pre-assessment, um, assessment and a post-assessment for every single one of the students and the Teams the K through second students and the teenagers who are in the program so that we're able to use that information to make shifts and adjust the program model as we need to.

Um, we also get impact from the teachers who are working directly in the classroom with the young children.

They inform us of what that growth has looked like.

Uh, we get impact from the principles, right?

The principles are telling us that the children who are in Read Alliance are, um, leveling up with the students who are in the day school, like so during the classroom, they're being able to see the difference in, um, the readers who are part of our program and where they show up in the, in the morning when they're in the reading sessions during school time.

Um, the other part that's, I think really, really important that you're speaking to though, is making sure that there is a validated way to assess just impact across the board.

If we're talking about having a citywide impact, that is why we sit at so many different tables and are in conversation with community based organizations.

Um, because we want to make sure that we're also talking and understanding what does that impact look like?

You know, we've been working with, um, a foundation, the Pinkerton Foundation here in New York for the past, I want to say almost eight years now and or maybe even longer to serve a specific area.

South Jamaica, Queens, where they brought together a bunch of different literacy based organizations that they were already funding and put money on the table and said, hey, if I bring you all together and this is from birth through 12th grade, how what can we do in this community?

What will that impact look like?

And from the time that it started to where we are now, we've been able to see a significant growth in the reading level of the children and the teens who have participated in that.

So that means that there are kids that started in that program from the very beginning who are now out of high school and who have benefited from that.

There are children who are at birth where they were.

There were books being given out to families at home who are now in middle school or high school, you know, based on the program that was being offered.

So I think there's a real way and we're held accountable, right?

So we want to see the outcomes, we want to know.

And Rochester, I can tell you, the kids that came to our program for that summer, last summer, they started at an early kindergarten reading level.

And I already mentioned that there were this was the first time where we ever served fifth grade, fourth grade, and third grade students in our program.

We are.

We have a K through two model like that's traditionally where we sit.

But those children were coming to us in those later grades, reading at the same level as some of the early readers and K first and second.

You know, on average, they grew almost a full grade level over the summer.

That's profound.

That's data that's being able to use that information and then sustain that through the school year, right?

So you're right on point.

We're talking about accountability and evaluation and making sure that there are measures that are able to be sustained throughout the program cycle, but also throughout the entire, um, the entire literacy strategy, like whatever is being put in place, making sure that we're able to do that.

And I know that that's part of the guardrails that, you know, that that Ashara and Jackie are working on, like making sure that there is accountability.

>> Yeah.

Jacquelyn Martell to Howie's point there, would you be comfortable saying, hey, um, the, this legislation should have some kind of requirement that says, you know, if you're an X proficiency, you need to get to Y proficiency in 12 months and 24 months, whatever the number is, to continue the funding to continue the program.

>> Yes.

>> I think we would be we would be comfortable with that.

And just to be clear, we're in direct conversations with the governor's office.

Uh, the legislature and also the state Education Department, uh, as it pertains to implementation.

The bill itself, uh, calls to establish a statewide grant program for local education providers, um, so that they can leverage a variety of strategies in recruitment and training tutors.

Uh, I think the key thing here is going to be, and I should also say that the bill also calls for public reporting, uh, to improve transparency and data collection so that we can continually assess student outcomes and progress.

And the key thing that we're going to be really pressing on as we continue this journey, uh, is ensuring that one, those guardrails, as I mentioned, are implemented, implemented with fidelity.

Uh, and then also two, that the funds are going to the highest needs districts.

That was one of the key components when we wrote this legislation was that we called for, uh, districts that are high, the highest needs to get this money first.

Rochester would be included in that.

Uh, and so these are continual conversations.

Um, and, you know, it probably will require also continual advocacy around this as well.

>> So in our last minute or so.

al-Sharaa are you confident that if this money comes through, this time really comes through that the city of Rochester's school district is going to spend it well, and that we'll be able to measure whether this is working.

>> We have new leadership, there's new energy.

It's a new year.

I have all the confidence in the world, and we have a statewide coalition of a lot of advocates who have great models, great examples and great providers to support districts like the Rochester City School District.

>> I had an email from Jane wondering how early does hit start?

Just briefly, because we're almost out of time here.

You've talked about your daughter, who's now nine, who you've been intervening for years now.

It would start in your mind.

al-Sharaa how early?

>> Preferably kindergarten, but there are models that include pre-K.

>> Yeah, we're not talking about jumping in when someone's in sixth, seventh, eighth grade, though, of course, anybody who's struggling at that level would need some help.

But we're talking about trying to head off issues before they even start starting young, getting into the classroom or getting into that tutoring space.

Um, and your daughter is hopefully on her way, nine years old now.

>> Nine years old.

And I'm happy to report we, we are thriving.

And, you know, I'm looking forward to seeing what she's going to grow into when she gets into middle school.

>> Thank you for coming in and updating us on this story.

Let we're going to have a budget one way or another in a few days here.

Who knows?

Let us know.

Let us know what happens al-Sharaa will you?

>> Fingers crossed.

>> Absolutely.

Shahed Baker is a parent advocate Yvette Russell Chief Strategy Officer for the Read Alliance.

Um, same.

Let's stay in touch here because there's a lot to talk about with how our kids read, how they're taught.

Thanks for being with us, Yvette.

>> Thank you.

>> Oh, can I say just one quick anecdote?

>> There was a, um, a teenager and a and a young child.

It was just he was in second grade.

They were leaving after the program.

They had just met during the program.

And the child ran up to young boy.

He ran up to the teenager and asked him if he was going to come back to tutor him the next day.

And the teen who had been talking to me as he was a senior, he was about to graduate.

He was nervous.

>> We're going to lose you.

>> Um, oh, sorry.

He made him pinky swear and promise that he would come back and tutor him the next day.

>> Well, thank you, thank you.

Thanks for.

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