>> From WXXI News.

This is Connections.

I'm Evan Dawson.

>> Our connection this hour is made in a report card.

An annual report card meant to offer an assessment for how we are doing as a community in taking care of our children, specifically the children of Rochester, who tend to be growing up surrounded by more challenges, more poverty, more trauma than many of their peers in the suburbs.

And if you look at the data from the last decade or even longer, you could be forgiven for wondering why very little seems to be getting better on a human level.

I see people pouring themselves into this work, and it is no doubt sincere.

On a journalistic level, I see the numbers and I want to know the reason for these numbers.

Now, there are two big caveats here.

The first is that the pandemic has undoubtedly affected kids in countless ways.

Almost all of them negative.

That doesn't mean that everything would be perfect if the pandemic had never happened, but it certainly derailed some progress.

The second is that there are some positive indicators in the data, some signs of progress that did not exist a decade ago.

And we're going to talk about that, too.

We should also mention that there are all kinds of factors on the work that is being done, including from the federal government.

So our guests are no doubt going to have a lot to say.

And let me welcome them.

We'll go around the table with Brian Lewis, executive director of the Rock the Future Alliance.

Welcome back to the program.

>> Thanks for having me.

>> Next to Brian is Erika Rosenberg, president and CEO of the center for Governmental Research.

Welcome back to you.

>> Hi, Evan.

>> And tell folks what Cgrp's role is here.

>> We consult on pulling the data together and giving an accurate and contextual picture of how kids are doing.

>> Well, thank you for being here across the table.

Let me welcome back Toyin Anderson-Smith a parent, a family partner for the Rock the Future Alliance.

Nice to see you.

Thank you for being here.

Thank you.

And next Toyin is Ja''yonna Willis, who's a 10th grade student at Our Lady of Mercy.

Nice to see you.

Thanks for being with us.

>> Nice to meet you.

>> It's good to have you right here in studio with us.

And I hope you're enjoying it's break week, I think.

Yeah, yeah, we got more students next hour.

Nothing like coming into a radio show for for break week, but a lot to talk about here.

And I just want to ask Brian to kind of set the stage for us for what the purpose of this mission is, what this report card is all about.

The official release, by the way, is a week from today.

It's the 13th annual state of Our Children report card comes out next Thursday, February 26th, and there is an event at the theater at Innovation Square.

You want people to go to that.

>> We need people to be there.

Everyone in Rochester should be at this event.

We want to sell it out.

>> Everyone in Rochester.

>> Everyone, because we have a vision of a cradle to career system in Rochester.

This transformed and we know that to get there, we need everyone to play a role.

It's not just the educators, it's not just the nonprofit leaders, the parents, the youth.

if you are concerned citizen, if you're a business leader, if you want children in Rochester to be successful, this event is for you.

And Rock the future is the organization for you.

>> So 130 in the afternoon, it's going to run to about 4:00.

Yes.

>> That's correct.

>> Yeah, that's at the theater Innovation Square.

And if you want to register.

How do people do that.

>> They can go to our website.

Rock the future.

>> So I said before the program to Erika Rosenberg, who's one of the really smart data people in this town.

Thank you.

Well, I mean, that's the job, right?

And data without context can be dangerous.

Yes.

So it'd be easy for me to look at this report card and go like, whoa, and I did.

I look at this and every year I go, oh my, yeah.

but we're going to add some context here.

Overall, is there a 30,000 foot view that you take.

Look at this and go, okay, it's about what I expected okay.

It's worse than I expected.

I'm troubled.

I'm concerned.

I mean, how do you see it?

>> Yeah.

Definitely mixed I would say there's a lot of stability in the data and small changes.

And certainly we're at a lower level on most of the indicators of achievement and status than we want to be.

And like you alluded to, Evan, the larger context for that, of course, involves many things, but certainly higher poverty in the city of Rochester is part of the larger context.

the really devastating impact of the pandemic society wide.

But I would say, particularly on students in the city of Rochester is part of the context the federal government's attack on a lot of urban areas and on a lot of marginalized populations as part of the context as well.

So, you know, what we see in the data are some things that are stable, that are, good, like participation and access to pre-kindergarten programs.

You know, that's remained pretty available.

we see some stability in kids readiness for kindergarten, which is not really all that positive, because we're at a less than half of the kids coming into kindergarten are assessed as ready for kindergarten.

>> Those are kids who are arriving at kindergarten, correct.

And assessed whether they're ready for that or not.

Correct.

And it's just under half, 45%.

>> Okay.

Yeah, yeah.

And that's a really stable it's been that way for for quite a number of years.

So that's definitely something we need to work on and see more of an upward trajectory.

when we get to third grade reading, which of course is a really pivotal milestone, our kids reading on grade level by third grade we actually do see some improvements.

there's been upticks in that level.

So we're at 19% now at third grade, which is up from 11% a few years ago.

But obviously no one is satisfied with that improvement.

Right.

That needs to be a lot higher.

And that's what Rock the future is all about.

>> when it comes to something like kindergarten readiness or really all of these numbers.

Yes.

The last decade has been marked by a lot of effort to get more kids into programs starting at age three.

Yes, three, four years old.

So could it be that that will bear fruit in another decade when a lot of these kids are now going to be in high school, you hope that you're starting to see the impact, or should we be seeing better results now because of that?

>> I mean, my opinion is, you know, we'd want to see better results now.

Yes, we have things in place that we expect to help in the future.

but those things have been in place for quite some time.

And so we really need to, you know, as I think the message is going to be at the state of the children event, we need to double down, you know, and get more serious about interventions, supports investments in programs that are really proven to make a difference.

I mean, pre-kindergarten is wonderful.

but a lot of times the very positive effects that are discussed regarding pre-kindergarten are for programs that are much more intensive than the kind of programs that we have available to most children in the city of Rochester.

>> Okay.

and one other question for Erica.

Before we we're going to dig into some of the data.

And then but a lot of this conversation is about, you know, what is the work that's actually happening?

I mean, Brian and the team will have a lot to say about that.

And I said at the start here, I mean, from the human level, I don't have never questioned the intention and the effort and the challenge is huge.

We know the challenge is huge.

I look at this, Erica and I say, I'm worried about everything.

I'm really worried about boys.

Yeah, most of the data for boys.

>> Yeah.

>> Is pretty shocking.

>> That's right.

>> What's going on?

>> I mean, I think it's not a secret or a new finding that school doesn't work as well for boys as it does for girls.

That's been the case for years.

And I think it's true across school settings.

But certainly there are some, particularly troubling results in this report card, including the reading levels which you may have in front of you there.

Evan, I don't so you might want to talk about that specifically, but at the other end of the spectrum, you know, one of the things that really caught our attention this year was the big gender gap that's opened up in post-secondary enrollment.

>> Yeah, that's what I'm looking at right now.

>> Yeah.

>> So do you mind do you have that data?

>> I do, I do.

So 39.5% of our females graduated and went on to post-secondary experiences and less than 9% of the males.

>> We got to say this again here in the most recent full year data.

Just under 40% of graduating young women were going to college.

And just under 9% of young men were going to college.

>> Right?

Certainly very troubling.

I do want to add the context that this doesn't include young men who may be going on to non-college good experiences, like technical programs.

you know, like trades, things like that, which are, you know, some of the best career opportunities around, right?

>> Yeah, sure.

But but I'm the really helpful part of this data is it's not just one year.

And I want to read the last three years because then I then I'm really puzzled.

2122 so the first full year kind of coming out of the pandemic, 38%.

And this is very small type for a man who doesn't read well my eyes, 38% of girls, young women going to college, just just about 30% of boys and young men.

So 38 and 30.

So girls and young women are clearly pursuing higher ed more than boys and young men every year.

But here's the gaps 38 and 30, in 2022, 40 and 31 in 2023.

Right.

39 and nine.

>> Yeah, there's a real.

>> What.

>> Bottoming out in that last year of data.

So I think we have to see if that persists for a year.

Right.

Another year.

>> As opposed to just being an outlier.

>> It could be I mean, it could be.

We just won't know until we have more data.

And to see if it persists.

>> Brian Lewis did that number pop to you?

What's going on there?

>> It did, you know and, you know, one of the things that we know, because we're, we're fortunate to be connected to a national intervention called Strive Together National Network that looks at not only these lagging indicators, because these are these are snapshot of the past.

And so we're looking at a year ago, sometimes more than a year ago.

and so unfortunately we can't act as a community on lagging indicators.

But there are certain indicators that help improve the lagging indicator.

And so the Fafsa, for example, is one of the lead indicators that helps us understand, you know, how do we improve college enrollment.

And we're fortunate that in Rochester, we have a great organization called Rochester Education Foundation.

they convene through ROC, the Future Alliance and as partners with us, something called the Archon.

The Rochester College Access Network.

And with multiple partners, including Rochester City School District.

So many of our philanthropic partners, we have seen an increase in Fafsa completions over recent years.

Right.

And so, again, if we're looking at that lead indicator, we can hope that if we can keep improving the Fafsa completion rate, we can get to an improvement in college enrollment rates, because, you know, national data tells us that that's true.

and the fact that it is young men should stand out to us, and it can help inform our partners to think about how are we engaging our young men with conversations about college enrollment?

if they're not being talked about that already?

>> Yeah.

So a couple more things on that before we move on to some other subjects here.

Brian, if that number doesn't really meaningfully change, if we get a repeat of that, if that starts to look like where things are, can our city survive having less than 10% of its young men and boys going to college?

>> We can survive, but we won't thrive.

So Rochester has survived a lot, you know, and I think if we zoom out, you know, one of the larger stories of not only Rochester, but the nation is a story of economic immobility.

And so in the 1940s, a child that was born had 80% chance of being more mobile than their parents.

By the time I was born in the 1980s, it was a 50% chance.

And a child born today in the city of Rochester, especially in the lower income ZIP codes, has less than a 40% chance of being more mobile than their parents.

And so these are national trends, and they have local impacts.

and the work that we're doing is to try to reverse that and to say, you know, if we can make sure children are kindergarten ready, make sure that they're reading at grade level by third grade, doing math at eighth grade, by grade level, graduating high school.

This is how we reverse those trends.

And so we've seen worse than this historically.

And that does kind of bring us to the event.

Evan, you know, we're really proud to be bringing Tulsa, Oklahoma, into Rochester to learn from them.

folks may be familiar with Tulsa because of Black Wall Street, which was a place of thriving business that was decimated by something called the Tulsa Race Massacre of 1921. just a few years ago, Tulsa elected its first black mayor, Mayor Monroe Nichols.

Krystal Reyes, who was the deputy mayor serving in the Monroe Nichols administration, is going to be here.

And she's the first Latina deputy mayor of Tulsa.

along with Ashley Phillipson, which works with Impact Tulsa, which is part of that national Strive Together network that I talked about.

So we have a chance to learn from Tulsa and how they're letting the past inform how they can improve work today and work across systems.

And we in Rochester have a similar story, right?

We have like Gleirscher Street, right?

We have these these other histories of places where policy has not been informed by people most impacted.

And we do have an opportunity to turn the needle and turn this around.

>> The last thing on this big disparity in graduation or college attendance, I mean, every time we talk about it, someone makes the point, and it's a good one that students don't have to go to college to thrive.

And these days, there's a lot of questions about what jobs are going to be in the future anyway.

So I get I mean, like, there's a lot of sense in going into the trades, but I don't look at this and go, well, that gap, that huge gap is just boys and young men going to the trades.

That's got to explain all of it.

I don't think it can explain all of it.

I don't think anybody here thinks it can explain all of it.

One.

So one thing, if I were on the team, I would be doing this.

I would probably.

And this is me being clumsy, but I'd say, here's a hypothesis.

This is data from the end of 24.

And that means that when the pandemic.

>> Hit.

>> Boys and young men, from what I have seen again as a layperson, everyone in their teens was affected.

Everybody was affected.

But teens were really hit hard by the pandemic, and boys and young men even harder than girls and young women.

And so now we're starting to see what what some of that poison fruit.

And my fear is that that is more of a going to be closer to more of a fixed number.

Or maybe it is the outlier, I don't know.

Does that come up?

Do we do you talk about stuff like that, Brian.

>> Yeah, that's exactly what Rock the future does.

So what we do is we convene change tables, and we mobilize both context and content experts.

So folks like Erica Seeger who understand, you know you know, quantitatively what's happening.

And folks like Toyin who understand qualitatively why this is important as a parent of of a child of children here in Rochester.

And we bring that wisdom and that knowledge together to get to rapid root cause analysis, because like you said earlier, Evan, you know, it's been often said it can take 8 to 10 years to shift systems and improve outcomes.

We don't have the privilege to wait.

Our children can't afford an 8 to 10 year timeline.

We need to get to root cause analysis.

The way we do that is by bringing together content and context experts to rapidly get to solutions and to mobilize initiatives that are cross-sector to address these issues in real time.

So these are the kind of questions we ask at our data advisory team meetings that happen monthly.

at our high school graduation outcome teams at our Rochester College Access Network meetings that happen monthly as well.

So this is exactly what we do.

And again, the call to action for anyone in the community who wants to be a part of that conversation is these are not just the parents problems to solve.

These are all of our issues to resolve and address, because these are the issues of civic infrastructure and engagement in Rochester.

This is how we build economies, right?

It's through supporting children to be successful.

>> Last bit of data that we're going to talk about is because Erica talked about Ela and proficiency.

Let's talk about eighth grade math.

And if you just look at eighth grade math proficiency, all students by gender, those numbers alone, you know, if you don't look at this every year, it's going to shock you.

And this is the only place I've seen boys doing better than girls.

So the boys are just under 6% proficient in math.

In eighth grade, 5.9% girls, 2.0%, 2% flat.

And interestingly, the boys.

That's a jump up from the for the boys pretty significantly.

It's not a doubling.

But I mean it's it's a something like a 70% increase improvement for boys year to year.

So up to just about 6% proficient.

And for girls, it's a number that fell by half down to 2% proficient.

But either way, you know, one out of 50 girls is proficient.

>> So all these numbers are way too low, right?

>> That's hard to look at.

>> Of course.

>> That feels tragic to me.

>> It does.

But don't forget that stronger students are not taking that exam.

They're taking the algebra exam, the Regents algebra exam.

So the results on that are much better.

the latest figures for actually 24, 25 is half of the kids in Rochester who took the Regents algebra exam passed it.

They were proficient on it.

So again.

>> And that doesn't show up here.

>> It does not.

It's a separate chart.

Okay.

so I don't want to discount your point because.

No.

>> This is why I want to talk about this.

>> I want those other all those other kids that did not take Regents Algebra and did take the state grade level exam and didn't pass it, are in real trouble, right?

If they don't get up to the level that they need to go, that has serious implications for the rest of their high school career and for post-secondary.

Certainly college.

Not that everybody is going to be a math scholar.

Right.

But but this is kind of a I don't want to say super basic, but it's a foundational kind of level of knowledge that's being assessed.

So it is very important.

But you really have to look at both pieces.

>> Do we know what the population is of students who wouldn't be reflected in that?

>> We do.

It's about a third.

>> About a third of the students.

>> Are taking the Regents algebra.

>> So don't look at this and do what I do and think one out of 58th grade girls in Rochester is proficient at math.

That's not correct, right?

But even if you were to mix that outside data, you'd still end up with a number that everyone would agree is not good enough.

>> Correct?

>> Okay.

all right.

And Brian, overall, why do you think girls tend to be doing better than boys in a lot of these metrics?

>> I think like a lot of things is systemic.

So, you know, we know that identity plays a role in a child's life from birth to career.

And that's why we have this cradle to career model.

And it's really important that our system partners and when I say system partners, I'm talking about, of course, educators, we talk a lot about teachers and educational leaders when we talk about these kind of outcomes.

but unfortunately, that's not the place where understanding needs to end.

We also need business leaders to understand the differences in development across gender and across race.

we need, you know, members of our society that understand that there are real differences in the way that, you know, folks are treated and also the way that they they see their own experience in in what they're what they're drawn to.

And so all of those things come into play, and it really does take sort of a sociological perspective to understand how do we how do we help more young people be successful, like Gianna.

Right.

And part of the reason why Gianna is here is because, you know, she can speak from her own experience about what has led to her success and how she's been able to be successful as young woman in this city.

with with her goals.

>> Well, let's go across the table here.

And Toyin, let me just ask you, why don't you remind our audience here a parent of how many?

>> Three.

>> Three.

Okay.

And what has been like, what has been your experience?

You know, as as a parent in the city, both with the quality of the education but also your efforts to be involved and to feel like you have a voice.

>> So for me, definitely, you know, ever since I have a 27 year old, but I figured it out from he was very, very young.

How important it was to be an engaged and involved parent.

Right?

And involvement and engagement comes at every level in different ways.

And that's one of the things I always try to explain when I do my parent engagement speeches or anything, I say, remember that engagement looks different.

A parent doesn't come in the building, doesn't mean they're not engaged.

Right?

Absolutely right.

Somebody's got this child already.

Homework was done.

They got here.

Right.

So I just knew it because I'm being honest.

I saw how differently my children were treated because they saw me.

Right.

But I would always ask not for special treatment if not for all, not for one.

But I also knew truly how important that was.

And I mean, coming from Jamaica, that's where I was educated.

After up to high school.

And I saw what community looks like.

Right?

Our teachers were from the same.

Everything was community based, right?

So I tried to build a community as best as I could and be engaged with my children and do the additional work that you can't necessarily get from school.

So I've always ensured that I show up as much as I can and show up for parents and caregivers who are not in the capacity right now to do it, because every child in Rochester deserves the best education.

So we do have parents, like you said, whether for work or whatever trauma they're going through.

But your children deserve the best.

And as we look at these numbers, they are crazy, crazy, ridiculous and low.

Right.

And the question as a parent like, what do we need to do as a community, right.

How do we get everybody?

Because it's not only a parent's problem, it's not a school problem, it's a community problem.

But I do as a parent, my due diligence in ensuring that I take part in what happens for my children and other children too, they all need support.

>> Why do you think the girls of Rochester are doing a little bit better than the boys?

>> Well, I think once again it if you look at the data because the failing is not just one thing.

There's poverty, but a lot of black and brown boys.

If you probably check attendance, they more, they get more targeted and probably a strong word more likely to get suspended.

You know what I'm saying than their other counterparts.

So we could start by looking at, you know, are they in classrooms or are they outside of classrooms?

What what what others deem, you know, for especially black and brown boys as them doing extra stuff in a culture?

For us is the norm, but they get singled out so that I start there, like, what are we not doing for them?

How are we not meeting their educational needs?

What else do they need to learn that we are not providing today?

Because if we're still doing the same thing that hasn't worked for 40 years, we're failing them.

>> Yeah.

And briefly, let me just ask if Brian or Erica want to jump in.

I mean, again, not my expertise, but we've had plenty of conversations over the last decade, especially in the city of Rochester, about restorative practices, about different approaches to discipline, about concern, about suspension rates, about contextualizing suspension rates across this county and looking at racial disparities.

I mean, there's been a lot of analysis.

I don't know if if if your view, Brian, is that the city of Rochester, RCSD is has implemented enough to say this is discipline is important, but this is fair.

It's in a better place.

Or if it still has some room to go.

>> I want to give the Rochester City School District a lot of credit.

there is a restorative and restorative practices are being embraced by the district right now.

And we're taking steps to understanding exactly what Tony just laid out.

How is it that exclusionary discipline creates disproportionate impact?

And you know, that's one step and that's important.

But, you know, we as a, as a, as a state have a long way to go.

You know, our partners at the Children's Agenda are working on a bill called solutions, not suspensions, that would bring this to the state level and bring it to policy.

And so, you know, part of what Rock the future does is and Tony expressed it so well is say, you know, to do this in a classroom is powerful and important.

To do this in a set of classrooms is even better to do this across an entire district is is even better.

What does it look like to bring this to scale to policy?

Because when we look at a lot of these outcomes and these conditions that exist the chronic homelessness, the student homelessness that exists in Rochester, for example, this happened because of policy failings over years and generations.

And so it is going to take bringing in the perspectives of people who have been impacted to shift policy.

And we have great partners like the Children's Agenda and others who are saying, you know, we need to get involved in policy to shift this and to have impact to people you know, make this something that is a thing of the past, but it does have to be done at scale.

>> Every time we have this kind of conversation, someone emails me to say, you should be shifting policy, but you should be going in the other direction.

What young people, particularly young boys and young men, need, is more structure and more discipline, not a softer approach.

What do you think?

>> the two are not mutually exclusive.

So.

And I take this, you know, really as something that I'm really passionate about because I have a background in restorative practice, but I also was that kid that got in trouble all the time in high school.

And so the thing about restorative practices is that, you know, one, the first concept is that it acknowledges that harm is done.

And so, you know, when a child is engaged through restorative practice process, you're acknowledging that harm is happening.

Either, you know, by behaviors of that individual child or by the system, often by both.

And you're dealing with that treatment on an individualized basis.

Part of the reason why we named this event this year is scholar by scholar Evan, is because we know that we can tell I can tell some powerful stories about my experience and how restorative practices help me go from being a troubled student to an executive director.

And I could tell 20 other stories like that about other young men in the city of Rochester.

and those stories are powerful and important, but we still have to get to scale and population level impact from those individual stories.

And so the scholar by scholar theme acknowledges that one student at a time, by acknowledging the individualized experiences of each student and what each student needs.

And different students need unique things.

Every black male student doesn't need the same thing.

every, you know, male student and female student doesn't do the same things we've been discussing.

We need to have an individualized approach to treatment and intervention that will help us get to these larger population level goals, so that more students can graduate high school and go on to upper mobility.

>> Anything you want to add, Erica?

>> Just that, you know we need to redesign schools as well and have offerings that are more engaging to males across the board.

I think because this isn't limited to the city of Rochester, it's starkest there.

But boys are just not as engaged in what we're doing in schools, and they don't go on to higher ed in the same rates really anywhere.

And so it's there's just a much bigger picture there, I think.

>> And here's another assumption.

But I would imagine you don't have to go back too far a generation, maybe two, where men and young boys were the ones going to college in much higher numbers than girls and young women.

>> Yeah, but that's just because they were holding women down, right?

>> Well, I mean, but.

>> We're not doing that as much anymore.

>> No, but really, I mean, like, it's an amazing thing now to see.

>> Girls and women.

I to your to Erica's point, more engaged with the offering.

And this is that's a whole separate conversation is what is sort of turning students on, firing them up, inspiring them.

How much do you have to say, look, this is the work and you got to do it.

I don't care if you're inspired by or not.

How much do you have to meet people where they are and bring them in?

>> Just let them let them move around a little bit, right?

I mean, it's a lot of work.

Quick, quick story about my son as a kindergartner was like done with school at the end of kindergarten year.

He was like, I hate this.

I can't move around, you know, and.

>> Too constrained physically.

>> Yeah.

I mean, just that boys and girls are different, whether it's socialization or biology or some mix, right?

And obviously everyone is an individual as well.

But on average, you know, there's just different needs that many boys have that they don't get to.

They don't get met at school.

To Julien's Point, really.

>> All right.

So on the other side of this break, we're going to talk to the student here.

Ja''yonna Willis a 10th grade student.

We'll talk about Jan, his experience.

And if you want to attend the event, Brian said he wants everyone in the community.

>> Everybody.

>> Everybody there next Thursday.

The event is the 13th annual state of our Children report card, the official release, and then the event at the theater at Innovation Square.

It starts at 130 in the afternoon next Thursday.

And information, what's the website again?

>> ROC the Future Alliance Grok.

>> Org ROC the Future Alliance.

Org for more information.

They would love to see you there.

We'll come right back on Connections.

>> Coming up in our second hour, we're going to hear from high school students in their own words, what they think of the smartphone ban that took effect this school year.

There on February break.

And we've got a group of them sitting down with us to talk about what it's been like to go an entire school day with no smartphone, no texting, no social media, no checking between classes or at lunch.

Is it better or worse for them?

Do they agree with it?

You're going to hear what they say next.

Our.

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>> This is Connections.

I'm Evan Dawson Ja''yonna Willis is a 10th grade student at Our Lady of Mercy.

And before we kind of dig in with Gianna, a question that would be unfair for Gianna, but I think maybe Brian and Toyin can address this.

They're going to be listeners, Brian, who say, all right, I'll listen to Jana's story, but you're talking about a lot about RCSD.

She's at mercy.

So is it relevant?

What do you say?

>> It definitely is relevant.

And Gianna will talk a little bit about how she is a product of our public schools.

So she did attend public schools.

And one of the wildly important goals Rock the future has is to focus on early childhood and to focus on those early formative years that are so critical to later development and success.

And so we believe and we know that there are so many reasons why Gianna is successful, mostly because of her own volition and who she is.

But we also know that she really got a great introduction through her school environment at a young age.

>> And this is Toya's daughter.

And so what would you say to someone says, well, hey, she's at mercy, so I should we listen to the story?

>> Absolutely.

Because we still live in the city of Rochester.

We believe in it.

In Gianna went to a city school from she was three years old till she graduated sixth grade.

But in all honesty, her foundation was solid from the district.

But we just knew that she needed something extra, you know what I'm saying?

And that's part of, you know, our issue for schooling.

We shouldn't have to go outside.

They should have enough school and provide enough rigor for our babies to go to a school that's right next door to our home.

Instead of being bused five miles across town.

Right.

So we still got a ways to go, but also, at no point am I going to be stifling my daughter because even when she was in school, there were days when Gianna was like, oh, she's got to sit there and wait on her classmates, and I have no issue with who needs to get caught up.

I am, I know kids are everywhere and they need to get to the same place, but it's also unfair for a child that's ahead to not be able to be placed ahead and be sitting there just doing absolutely nothing.

No, everybody's not winning.

Winning.

It's not equitable.

So while we need to have kids caught up, we have to make provisions for the children that are ahead to keep them on that track.

>> So, Gianna first of all, I'm really glad you're here.

How's break going?

>> Amazing.

Sleeping all day, every day.

>> You're missing school every day.

>> Yeah, yeah.

>> That's good.

so you went to RCSD schools through sixth grade?

>> Yes.

>> What do you remember most about that experience?

>> I just remember the community I felt at mercy.

I will definitely say that I don't necessarily see kids like me throughout the classroom, but at Montessori, definitely.

I saw kids who looked just like me, who lived in the same neighborhoods, everything.

So I just felt really like within a community, like a family.

>> Okay.

And how is it going at mercy?

>> It's amazing.

I love my teachers, love what I'm being taught, love my friends.

Just great environment to be in.

>> Okay, now you know, part of why you're here is they really are proud of of you.

As someone who's spent a lot of years in RCSD and someone who they think is going to be a future leader in this community, what do you want to do in the future?

I mean, you're in 10th grade.

You have to have it all figured out right now.

But what do you think you want to do?

>> Well, my career choice isn't quite set, but I do know that I want to follow my mom's footsteps and help people.

I see what she does every day, and I'm just impressed.

Amazed.

She's like my hero.

Honestly.

>> I mean.

>> Come on, Toyin, teenagers are not supposed to talk about their parents like this.

No.

>> I didn't pay.

>> Her.

There is something really beautiful about that.

And,.

We need community leaders, as you know, because, you know, you grew up in RCSD.

You see kids who maybe don't have parents who are as involved.

so what do you think is, is holding to the extent that kids are struggling or being held back by different forces, girls and boys, girls doing a little bit better than boys we've been talking about.

But I mean, it's a struggle.

Why do you what do you see?

What is hurting kids?

>> Systemic issues just all around suspensions.

Like my mom said, just everything.

A system that's like purposefully holding them back to not be as good as their, I guess, white counterparts.

Suspensions.

When I grew up, there were suspensions, expulsions, es taking them out of classrooms for various reasons.

They were absent on a lot of days where they're just not in the classroom learning basically anything, and they're coming back and they're not caught up.

They can't catch up and they're just pushing them along when they can't.

They're not where they should be grade level, and they just keep pushing them along.

So when they get to high school, they're they're not ready.

And I think that's kind of one of the biggest reasons, like systemic reasons that are built against us, honestly.

Like a brick wall.

>> do you think the people who run the district are choosing that, or are they just not understanding it?

What do you think?

>> I wouldn't say it's necessarily them.

I do see people trying to help, but it's just something that's been built against us for so many years that it can't.

You can't just be one person to tear it all down.

I think they do want to make changes, and I am seeing like the new district trying to make changes, but they're fighting a massive like force.

Honestly.

>> The question of suspensions is its own conversations.

We've been talking about, you know but there there are hard debates about where you draw lines and what is what is worth taking someone out of a class.

Because, as you say, when they're out of that class, they're further behind, and it's harder to ever get back.

So is it just that you think suspension is happening too lightly, too often?

it's not justified.

>> I think that students are being suspended without, I guess, nuance or even care that it's just easier to just get them out of school and not have to worry about them than taking the steps that it is to, like, I guess, reform them and help them.

It's just easier to just send them home and just not care about them.

Out of sight, out of mind.

>> Yeah, I mean, this is it's own deeper conversation for a different day.

and it's definitely true that when kids are out of school, they're going to really struggle.

What do you what do you think is hurting the boys more than the girls?

>> I would say that.

I guess boys are, I guess, more likely to fight and get into more, I guess, aggressive situations and be suspended.

More likely.

I guess girls aren't as likely to be suspended like that.

>> Yeah.

>> So that might be one of the issues.

>> But do you, as you know, someone who's in now in 10th grade, you've been growing up in in schools in Rochester when kids fight, I mean, I guess it's a question of how serious the offense is, right?

I mean, how to intervene because there are some people would say, well, if they're fighting, get them out.

>> I guess a lot of the times what I see is that they're not, I guess, angry at the person, more of angry at the situation they're in.

And so when they're fighting, it's just a reflection of what's happening, I guess at home more as and in their environment, and not because they're angry at the person.

I mean, of course, some people are genuinely very angry, but it's just a reflection of their home life and the situations they've been put in.

Like, no father figure stuff like that, which is harming to them and harming to our community in general.

I don't think that.

I guess I think it requires a lot more nuance than you're just saying.

If they fight, send them home because it requires you to think about what's their home life.

Is it worse at home than it is here?

What's happening?

Do they even have a home?

It just requires a lot more than just saying, oh, if they fight, it's not black and white.

There's a major gray area there.

>> You're saying you haven't met a whole lot of really well adjusted kids who really feel loved and supported in every facet of their life, who come to school and fight?

>> I mean, I guess, no, I would say that when they have people who love and support them, like I've never thrown a punch in my life, and I don't know if I could take a punch, and that might be a reflection of who my mom is and how I've been raised.

>> But your mom can take metaphorical punches.

>> Yeah, she's.

>> She's very capable.

let me also ask you, now that we're pretty far past the pandemic how significant is is that when we look at.

We're trying as a community to figure out what this data means, where we are, what has hurt students?

How bad was the pandemic?

>> For me, I didn't suffer, but I did see other people because sending kids home required them to have computers and internet, which some people just didn't have access.

>> And structure at home.

>> Yeah, like it was just hard for people who lacked the structure already to go in person school to send them home.

And they don't have that there either.

>> And kids were out for too long.

>> I don't think so.

I think that I guess we have never seen something like this in modern times, and we didn't know how to react.

>> I'm with you.

>> There.

>> So I don't think we were out for too long, but I do think that it just was a bad situation for everyone.

Honestly.

>> You know.

>> You talk about this in ways that I wish more adults would.

And I just say, because we have to be able to look back at something that major of an event and say what worked and what didn't, what were the right decisions and wrong.

The reason that so many people are afraid, I think, to do that is because it immediately becomes political point scoring, you know, and it's like, well, you were on the wrong team.

Or if you did something that was well-intended but didn't work, now you're bad.

That doesn't serve anybody well.

I mean, the data tells you a lot of stories that we can learn from if we're willing to show grace.

You're showing a lot of grace in your response.

>> I mean, who has time for who has more points politically when kids are suffering?

>> Oh.

>> Don't don't even enter the world of adulthood.

I'm with you there.

I'm with you 100%.

>> And Evan can also say, you know, not only is Gianna a future leader, she's a leader.

Now, you hear the way she's talking.

>> Oh my gosh.

Yeah.

>> You know, she her and her Youth Leadership Coalition counterparts.

This is what they do.

They come together.

They they discuss mental models.

This is what we're really talking about here.

How is it that mental models that exist either reinforce or can help remove systemic barriers.

And so clearly she speaks about this so well and she does this with her peers.

And a lot of her other peers are current RCSD students.

A lot of her peers are also current charter students.

They come together regularly, and they not only discuss these things, but they mobilize action around it.

And so young people like Gianna are making an impact in the city now.

And I think it's just really important to say that and to lift up that example.

One of things that's going to happen at the event is we're going to award a youth leader, as we've been doing the last few years, because we also need to recognize and acknowledge brilliance and, and hard work and you know, the wisdom.

And I love how you said the grace.

There's so many of our young people exhibit regularly.

>> Well, no, Gianna, truly.

And I'm not trying to pander here.

I mean, I'm really glad you're here.

Your voice is really important this hour.

So a few more things for you.

Gianna.

when you think about your future, as you said, it's it's unwritten and there's a lot of different directions you could take.

But in general, how do you and how do you think a lot of your peers think about how valuable college is or isn't.

>> Definitely going to RCSD school.

Not to say college wasn't always a forefront for me, but it definitely wasn't a forefront for others.

Not to say that they couldn't make it, because I knew a lot of a lot of smart people in in RCSD, but it just wasn't an option for people.

>> So it's like.

>> It wasn't even a thought.

As part of a future.

>> Not really.

No.

I mean, we were in sixth grade, but I think in sixth grade I knew I wanted to go to college.

It's just it's out of reach.

It seems very out of reach for people.

It just seems like an impossible task.

>> So on one side, there's the cost of it.

And and does it even have a reputation of being attainable?

Yeah.

Part of what you're talking about on the second side is does it get you what you want in life?

>> Yeah.

>> Do you think college can provide you what you're going to need for your life?

>> Oh, I think so.

I think that some things are just, are just necessary.

Like, maybe not everything I take out of college, but the experience will grow me as a person.

Enough to say I'm ready for the adult world.

So for some people, it's just they can just give it up.

It's just not necessary because they don't see themselves ever getting a professional job or anything like that.

They just see this one life set for them.

Like what people have already told them what they can be, and they just see that just one, one path for them.

>> And again, we've been talking about this, the difference between the girls and boys.

A lot more girls from RCSD in the last year we have planning to go to college than boys.

what do you make of that?

>> I think that with just social conditions, boys are just kind of being thrust into more adult roles extremely early and that they don't have the opportunity to go to college or don't once again see themselves in a college role.

And more women are more likely to see themselves going to college and actually becoming something like a nurse or stuff like that.

Like, I guess more professional roles.

>> That is.

>> So interesting that that distinction is really interesting.

Toyin, I know you're proud of her.

>> Very.

>> What do you want?

what do you want for when she talks about college in the future?

What do you most want for her?

>> I just want her to be the best person she was born to be.

And whatever that path in life takes her.

That's why she's the way she is.

Since this child was born, she showed leadership.

I promise you.

So I followed her lead her entire life.

I've just been her biggest cheerleader.

So she always comes.

We have these conversations every day.

What's important, what I'm going to do, what I'm not going to do.

And every day right now, we're changes, right?

Because I'm going to be a soccer star.

No, I'm going to be this I'm going to figure this.

But I know she's still young, but I'm like, whatever you want in life, even if it's the wrong decision, said the only thing that's wrong with the mistake is if you didn't learn the lesson that comes with it.

So she's okay to be whatever she wants to be as long as it's legal, respectful.

But I totally just see her being amazing and more amazing.

So whatever she decides to become, I'm just going to be completely proud of her because I know it will help.

>> I didn't have to pay her.

>> To say that.

I know, look at that.

>> Mutual admiration.

This is so beautiful to see.

and one more question for you, Jana.

So in a week from today at the Rock Future Alliance event, and really all year long, there are people who really care, who are trying to figure out how to make these changes, how to, as you say, take down a brick wall.

You called it a brick wall that a lot of students, frankly, a lot of black and brown students, feel like they're up against your job is not to come up with the perfect formula to create this equitable society, but are there a couple things that you think, boy, I'm surprised they're not doing this or this is something that can happen for especially for RCSD students right now.

>> I think one of the big things is, like I said, making college not so like such a like a dream of like allowing kids to visit colleges and see stuff like that, see a life outside of, I guess, Rochester, which I don't think many get to see often just a life outside the city.

What the world has for you I think I was, I well, I know I was extremely privileged that I travel a lot.

My mom's from Jamaica, like she said.

So I saw a world greater than Rochester and I saw bigger things.

I think a lot of students don't get that opportunity to see larger things.

So I think we should provide students with the opportunity to go to colleges and just visit places that aren't Rochester.

>> Brian Lewis what do you hear from this student.?

>> Inspiration, hope.

A reflection of what our society is moving toward.

And like I said, you know, she is a leader now.

And so I think it's so important.

And I love the way that Twain you know, said we need to acknowledge our children's wisdom and insights.

And so you know, I'm a parent myself.

And so that's that's a growing journey for me.

I have very young children.

but I can only hope that as my children continue to grow especially my daughter, that they that they also share that level of brilliance and insight and confidence and that I'm feeding that as a parent and I'm supporting it, and I'm not getting in their way.

And I'm really I'm helping them to be independent.

People that are happy and self-assured.

>> What do you hear there?

Erika Rosenberg.

>> So I'm thinking about a long time ago, 30 plus years ago, when I came to Rochester and my second job here was covering the city school district and just how different the dialog is around the problems in the city, which remain.

although they have changed and there has been progress, I can guarantee you of that.

But there was so much and I, I may have talked this, talked about this on this program before because I had a role to play in it.

There was so much parent bashing back then.

you know, just the, you know, these city parents and what they're not doing and how they're not showing up.

And like you spoke about and over the decades since then, you know, we really have as a community, I think, elevated parents properly.

And you know, created leadership opportunities for them, developed leadership within parents, acknowledge the leadership that lives in them.

I love when Toyin said parent involvement takes so many different forms, and it's not necessarily just about showing up at the school, although that can be really important.

So I am really enjoying just the kind of respect and honor we're showing to a parent and a student as part of this conversation, when in the past they would have been talked about and they wouldn't have been part of the dialog.

>> Yeah, well, and can you describe for listeners, Erica, next week, once this report card is public and people are taking a look at the full report, how they can be data consumers that are appropriately hard on we should be hard on these numbers.

We should be tough.

We should be demanding better.

Well, not taking things so out of context that now we're just doing what you described, which is we're just going to use this to stereotype and bash as opposed to be constructive.

How do we do that?

>> Well, I think it's all about paying attention to the context as you described.

Right.

And understanding that this is so multifaceted.

you know, we were talking yesterday prepping for this discussing that there has been an upward trajectory in the graduation rate and that has slipped a little bit in the last year.

but, you know, understanding that just as the community has been working together in this new collaborative way now for over a decade life keeps happening, right?

We've discussed how the pandemic happened.

I've alluded to the kind of attacks by the federal government, really, on our communities in some ways.

Right.

So as much as we're kind of racing to keep up the improvement efforts, you know, there's all sorts of contextual factors that get in the way.

And I just was also reflecting this morning on Twain.

You said, Evan, we need to be hard, right?

And part of us needs to be holding ourselves accountable as a community for results that aren't adequate.

And when we were prepping for this call Twain and I had a little bit of a disagreement over whether to use decimal points, and Toyin wanted to use the decimal points because she said, if we don't, we're acting like 2 or 3 more kids pass this exam than really did.

So you talk about.

be specific, being hard on the numbers.

You know, we have a parent leader in the room that really embodies that spirit of saying, you know, we need better for our kids and we all need to be part of the solution.

>> Toyin, no extra credit.

Every point earned.

>> Absolutely.

And I am hoping when everybody looks at the raw data, the direct numbers, I hope it makes them mad.

They should be mad.

But after being mad, the next question is if you are not doing your part to help, help us change and change the needle, the next question is what do I need to do?

And the next phone call is to rock the future.

How can I play my part?

Because we all, as a community, needs to do our job.

So I want everybody to be mad at the numbers.

The real numbers, because we all need to be mad, but mad enough to do something about it.

>> the graduation rates since that came up and we didn't hit those here.

Boy, those numbers are small on here.

Is that a 57 for the boys?

Is that right?

Am I looking at that correctly, guys?

57.

And then 60. plus six.

Boy, that's just too small for me.

I'm sorry.

I should have printed in bigger font here.

This is really good radio.

once again, more girls graduating than boys.

But the disparity there is tighter than the numbers of girls going off to college versus the boys.

So that's interesting.

and as Erica said, it is a one year pullback on a trend that had been, you know, seen some improvement in the last decade.

It's all going to be in the report that gets released in a week.

And so we'll close with this Brian.

If people want to attend next Thursday what do you want them to know.

>> I want them to know that there's still tickets available that they need to engage and get involved.

And so this like I said, this event is for everybody in our community, and we need to see you there.

And we want you to learn from this event.

Of course, there's going to be joy and laughter.

There always is a rock.

The future events we have dance and performance and young people's music.

and so all of those things will be present.

But we also got to get really serious about collective impact.

And the only way we make collective impact is by engaging every single person in our community.

>> Rock the future, rock, rock the future.

Org for more information.

Brian Lewis is the Executive director of the Rock the Future Alliance.

Thank you for being here.

Thank you.

Erika Rosenberg, the president and CEO of the center for Governmental Research.

Thanks for being here.

>> Thanks, Evan.

>> Toyin Anderson-Smith, a parent, a family partner for the Rock the Future Alliance.

Nice to see you again.

Thanks for being here.

Thank you.

And Ja''yonna Willis, I would wish you luck.

I don't think you need it and I really appreciate your perspective.

Thanks for taking the time for us today.

>> Thanks for having me.

>> More Connections coming up in just a moment.

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