From WXXI news I'm Jasmine Singer and this is Environmental Connections.

Today's environmental connection began last fall when I noticed something unexpected taking over a tree stump at the edge of my yard.

It was bright golden caps blooming in layers like.

Like a ruffled collar, you could say.

So I snapped a photo.

I texted a friend and I got an answer back almost immediately.

Golden oyster.

Mushrooms.

Edible.

Invasive.

Beautiful.

Complicated.

So that last word really stuck with me.

Because fungi are complicated.

They're often misunderstood, deeply underappreciated, and quietly powerful.

And it turns out they may also be essential to helping to solve the climate crisis.

No big deal.

Fungi help store carbon.

They clean polluted land and water.

They're being turned into meat and leather and even plastic alternatives.

But as climate change and habitat loss threaten their survival, we risk losing these vital allies before we even fully understand them.

So today, we're exploring fungi and the future.

What role can mushrooms and mycelium play in fighting climate change?

And what's at stake if we don't protect them?

Joining me today are three guests bringing their science, their entrepreneurship and their wild foraging wisdom to the discussion.

So joining us remotely, we have AI Surya Veera Bahu, a fungal ecologist and PhD student in the Pringle lab at the University of Wisconsin-Madison.

Welcome our Surya.

Hi.

It's so nice to be here.

Thank you very much for having me.

We know you're very busy, and we're grateful that you are spending this hour with us.

Also joining us remotely is Kimberly Ley, CEO and co-founder of Prime Roots, a company using Koji Mycelium to create sustainable alt protein.

Welcome, Kimberly.

Hi.

Nice to meet you.

Thanks for having me.

Thank you for being here.

I'm super excited about picking your brain.

And joining me in person here in the studio is Stacey Easterbrook, a wild mushroom forager and founder of Flax mushrooms in Ithaca.

Welcome, Stacy.

Thanks for making the drive.

It is a pleasure to be here.

And with that, let's dig in.

I, Surya, I want to start with you.

First of all, I want to clarify.

Am I pronouncing your name correctly?

Yeah, I sure.

Yeah.

You're exactly right.

It's a beautiful name.

I want to thank you with the big picture, because you've said that if there were no fungi in the soil, there might not be life on Earth.

And I know this is a big question, but can you give us the quick version of what fungi are and why they're so essential, especially in the context of climate change?

Yeah.

Fungi are one of the first organisms that, came on to land.

Right.

So this it's still being studied, but, there is a lot of evidence that suggests that fungi might have helped plants come on to land and, and colonize this rock and turn it into soil.

And so much of the ground, whether it's soil that we recognize or sand or you know, other types of like substrate on the ground, fungi tend to occupy them along with bacteria and, and other microorganisms.

And so a definitely a huge part of it that I alluded to earlier is helping plants, and forests.

So some fungi are mycorrhizal, which means that they partner with plants, and help them, help them gain nutrients from the soil, like nitrogen and phosphorus.

And so fungi are part of a plant's healthy biology.

Pretty much.

and, a huge percentage of plants on Earth, partner with fungi like this.

And so I think it's a really important part of keeping plants help.

Fungi are an important part of keeping plants healthy.

And plants do the main job of capturing carbon from the atmosphere and then photosynthesizing and turning it, into biomass.

How do pollution and land use change threaten those fungal networks?

Well, I'll start with land use change.

when we when when ecosystems are degraded and their habitats are razed down, whether it's for, agriculture or forestry or anything like that.

it completely changes the nature of the plants and also the health of the soil.

Right.

It just, it might increase the sunlight hitting that spot and therefore reduce the moisture of the soil.

that completely changes the soil conditions that the fungi, might find optimal.

And so that can really heavily change, and decrease the fungal biodiversity that you would find there.

and then, I mean, what was the first one you asked about?

Yeah.

So the pollution and land use, you, you touched on land use change.

What about pollution?

How does that threaten the fungal networks?

Yeah, pollution is going to be pretty much, the same thing, right?

Like when there are when there are pollutants, especially if it's like chemical pollutants that somehow can get into a fungal body or otherwise threatens their habitat.

it's going to kind of become, a less optimal or like, poisonous conditions for them to exist in.

So last question for you for now, in this sort of like 101 before we touch base with our other guests, what would you say that we still don't understand about the fungal kingdom other than how to pronounce fungi?

no.

It's okay.

There are so many different ways of pronouncing fungi.

Fungi, you know, fungi or fungi.

So all of them are great.

there are tons of things we still don't know about them, right?

We we still don't even fully understand, how they partner with plants.

Right.

Sometimes we're assuming that that fungi are almost this, like, benevolent helper that is, is helping plants.

And so we're assuming that that relationship is a mutual is, where both of them mutually benefit.

But that might not always be the case.

fungi could be parasitic on plants.

and we don't even understand the true, breadth of their biodiversity.

So only, like about 10% of fungi have even been discovered and described.

And so, that is.

Yeah, that's a huge void in our understanding of them.

And we also don't understand always like the products that they create, the secondary metabolites that, can be helpful into, like turning into, like FDA drugs down the line.

Right.

So we don't even know and understand their full, like, chemical biodiversity either.

Fascinating.

Okay.

I have, many more questions.

So hang out for just a minute.

I want to chat with with Kimberly.

Kimberly, your work focuses on a very different application of fungi, turning them into food.

Now, most of us love some fried mushrooms from time to time, but what led you to see mycelium as a hugely important answer to both nutrition and sustainability?

That's a great question.

So mycelium, is a lot denser than the mushrooms that we're, you know, commonly seen in the stores and using at home on an everyday basis.

So when you think of mycelium the way you like to explain it to, you know, the average consumer, is it's similar to like the roots of mushrooms.

So you get a lot more density.

You also get a lot more potential nutrition.

So depending on the mycelium used, we used Koji.

primarily, there's a lot of protein that's actually within the mycelium itself.

And so it's raw.

I like to describe it similar to like, chicken breast.

where it has these, like, really beautiful fibers.

It's very meat, like, and part of actually what inspired me to start Prime Roots was really, identifying that mycelium under a microscope is actually the same size and textures, meat, muscle fibers.

And so, instead of creating a alternative to me that's using really process.

So here we, these plant sources are really processed.

You can actually use fungi and mycelium.

And the natural form factor that it likes to grow and already to make these really meat like textures, but also have, a protein source that's really bioavailable.

and that makes delicious tasting foods that we all know and love.

So we specifically focus on deli meats, at Prime Roots, which, carry a lot of baggage.

just in the conventional.

Well, we get to do it without using the nitrates, preservatives, all of the not so great stuff that you find that deli meats and our regular listeners to environment connections know that I've been vegan for more than 20 years.

And, you know, I'm fascinated by how plant based food has been evolving because clearly we've got this huge uptake in plant based burgers like impossible and beyond.

I myself tend toward those more whole foods based, items, though I certainly see a place for the Impossible Burger and Prime roots, I think is really touching on something that's going to be very big, especially.

And in many ways it already is.

But especially when you think about, what I was talking about before, how we just haven't even tapped into understanding the full potential of mushrooms yet.

And that goes for how we can eat them, which I'm also going to be talking to Stacy about in a moment.

But, Kimberly, let's talk about that environmental impact.

Prime roots claims up to 91% less land use than traditional meat.

So how is that achieved?

And is this per calorie?

Yeah, that's a great question.

So we did a full lifecycle analysis of our process with a third party.

came in and really looked at, you know, all of the processes that we do to make our meat.

And what we found is that, you know, if you think about the concept of alternative proteins and why it it is a more sustainable option, you're not having to feed an animal, a ton of calories, for it to expand on just, you know, growing, and you can actually use the calories much more directly.

So, for a calorie of beef, like meat that you eat on your plate, it takes about 30 calories of feed for that cow.

when you're talking about your you're getting much closer to a 1 to 1 conversion, meaning one calorie, of feed, or sugar.

to convert into a calorie of protein.

So, well, it's a much more efficient way to get protein.

and it really just shows the fact that they're more efficient.

and the name primary, it's actually comes from the fact that, animals are derived.

We are descendant of the fungi kingdom.

and so it's, that's a lot of the nerdy, play on the name, but it's also a really high quality source of protein.

So, yeah, similar to the roots of mushrooms.

Oh, I love the name.

And I didn't know that.

So what do you say, Kimberly, to skeptics who are hesitant about or maybe even frightened of fungi foods.

So, so a courtesy of.

And the mycelium that we use is not a mushroom, so it doesn't taste like mushrooms at all.

it's really meat, like, and a lot of, like, the most famous chefs in the world use, mycelium to make meats actually meatier.

and so if someone doesn't like mushrooms, or fungi should give permanents a try because it actually just tastes like meat.

when we've actually done a test recently with the, blind taste test with consumers and over 50% of meat eaters, compared to meat actually prefer, let's switch to Pyroot.

So it's gotten to a point where, you know, even mushrooms, skeptics or meat lovers, can get behind the concept because it is a healthier and more sustainable option.

Well, that's the I'm getting hungry.

It is about lunchtime, so hopefully there will be some mushrooms in my lunch later today.

For those of you just tuning in, I'm Jasmine Singer and this is Environmental Connections on WXXI today.

We're talking about fungi and the climate and how mushrooms can help us heal the planet, and why we need to pay closer attention to them.

I'm joined by I soiree Vera Bahu, who's a fungal ecologist at UW Madison, Kimberly Ley, who you just heard from, the co-founder and CEO of Prime Roots, and Stacy Estabrook, a wild mushroom forager and founder of flax mushrooms in Ithaca.

Stacy, thanks for being so patient.

Your work is rooted in, quite literally, I suppose, in the local woods.

So what have you observed over the years in terms of how climate change is affecting wild fungi in the region?

Hi.

Thanks for, thanks for your question.

Well, I have been keeping a journal for many years.

my, Miko journal to tell me, I write down what the weather is like, and when I'm finding things and where I'm finding things and how much of something I'm finding on any given year, it's like a little treasure map that I make for myself so I can come back year after year.

and I have noticed that the mushroom seasons are a little bit less predictable than they had been, in decades prior.

I used to be able to almost within a week or two, look at the caller and go, okay, it's time to go out and find this thing.

Assuming there's rain.

and now we've been having just like we've been experiencing recently, earlier spring's earlier temperature rising followed by cold spells, that pattern seems to be emerging.

And so the the patterns in which not just mushrooms but all of nature, is, is changing alongside of that.

Yeah.

It's so true.

And I'm wondering, does this have anything to do with the mushroom at the end of at the back of my yard that popped up, I swear overnight, like, why do mushroom how does that happen?

How do they pop up overnight.

Well, they're getting all of their cues, from Mother Nature.

Some mushrooms, are not very picky about when or even where they pop up.

If it's a good brain, they'll they'll come up whenever it's in this temperature range, which could be kind of wide, where other mushrooms, like a moral will only come up at a very specific time of year when the temperatures are at this, at their, their right levels.

And that that's also a accompanied by rain.

So there's a lot of factors in a very small window if the, environmental conditions are not correct for the mushroom at that time, it just takes a nap that sort of hibernates until the next year, and then it will come back this year.

So they will skip a year.

Sometimes if the weather's not right.

have you considered publishing that book, your diary?

I mean, I would read that.

I would get that for everyone for Hanukkah.

I've, I've had people offer me money just to look at it for five minutes.

Yes.

Are you that like, can I just look in it to see what's in here?

Well, I, I want I'm one of those people.

Put me in the line.

So mushrooms.

Stacy, mushrooms are one of the few foods that people take from the wild.

Yeah.

How do your classes balance appreciation with sustainable foraging?

Yeah.

I think the appreciation kind of, in a way, needs to be cultivated before you really understand how to be sustainable.

if you are out in the woods and you're looking for mushrooms, you have to be aware of your environment and not just looking for this one specific thing you're looking for, certain types of trees that might be around this mushroom you're seeking likes to grow in, and also being aware of not trampling over other possibly endangered or protected plants while you're on your way to get your treasure.

yeah.

I mean, there's there's so many things to balance here.

And I think one thing I kind of hit on with Kimberly a moment ago, which is fear because people are justifiably, I think, pretty frightened of being poisoned by mushrooms.

What is the real danger and how much do you have to know to avoid dying?

Right.

That's a good question.

That's that's the question.

well, we have over 400 species of mushrooms that grow in New York State.

Wow.

And out of those, there are certain amount that are edible that are something you would want to eat.

Some are more on that survival food level where you could eat it to sustain yourself if you had to.

But no one's actively seeking these mushrooms out, and then you have mushrooms that contain toxins.

Out of all of those, mushrooms that we have, there really is a relatively small percentage of them that have toxins in them that would make you ill.

Okay.

so I think there's a little bit of micro phobia in the United States that might not be so prominent in Eastern European countries, where mushroom hunting is just taught through generations.

And, of course, indigenous cultures.

it's a very important part of life and would, not have been taught in a way that's caused the fear.

Yeah.

Yeah, I think I would be I think I would be the person that picked the poisonous one.

And like on my first foraging experience, maybe I'll go to one of your classes if this helps you feel any better.

Yeah.

You cannot be harmed by touching a mushroom.

Okay.

In order for the toxin to get into your body, you need to ingest it into your system.

So simply observing something, picking it up, and looking at it from its different angles, you will not be harmed by.

Well, that does make me feel a little bit better.

Thank you.

And for those of you just tuning in, you're listening to Environmental Connections.

And if you have a question for any of our guests, you can call us.

Tell us what you think about mushrooms, what your thoughts are, what your experience is.

844295 talk.

That's (844) 295-8255.

The local number is (585) 263-9994.

Or you can email us at connections at cyborg, or comment on the connections live stream on the Sky news YouTube channel.

And thank you!

For those of you who are tuning in on YouTube, we have an email from Michael.

Michael says my love affair with mushrooms began when a family friend invited us to his Italian restaurant, where he grilled mushrooms for us.

My preference for a burger is a grilled portobello.

I love your episodes of the show.

Thanks, Michael.

We love your email and we're going to take a quick break with that.

But when we come back, we'll dig into fungi as tools of regeneration, from cleaning up toxic waste to replacing plastic.

Mushrooms are doing far more than most of us realize.

You're listening to environmental connections from Sky news.

Stay with us.

I'm Jasmine Singer.

Coming up in our second hour of environmental connections, we'll explore how fungi are playing a surprisingly powerful role in climate solutions.

From mushroom based meat alternatives to mycelium that replaces plastic.

And we'll look at what happens if climate change and human activity threaten fungi before we've even discovered most of them.

Catch it all on the second hour of environmental connections.

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Welcome back to Environmental Connections.

I'm Jasmine Singer.

If you're just joining us today, we're exploring the surprising role that fungi can play in the fight against climate change and so much more.

From storing carbon underground to cleaning up pollution, even replacing plastics and meat.

Mushrooms are emerging as powerful, if underappreciated.

I would say climate allies with me are I, Surya Veera Bahu, a fungal ecologist and PhD student at the University of Wisconsin-Madison.

Kimberly Ley, who is the CEO and co-founder of the fungi based food company Prime Roots.

And in the studio with me is Stacey Estabrook, a certified wild mushroom forager and founder of flax mushrooms in Ithaca.

I swear, yeah, I want to turn back to you.

Let's talk about.

I'm so afraid of mispronouncing this, but you'll correct me.

Let's talk about my core mediation.

The process of using fungi to clean up environmental pollutants.

So, did I pronounce it right?

How does it work?

And what kinds of contaminants are we talking about?

Yeah.

So it's pronounced microbe remediation, right?

That prefix miko is always going to refer to anything fungal.

and so yeah, there are some fungi that can do incredible things like, sequestering and absorbing pollutants that are, that are out in nature.

The kind of tough thing is that this there's still emerging research on it and and it hasn't totally, you know, been taken up to scale.

But I think that there is definitely a lot of potential for it.

I'm on the board of an organization called Cobra Renewal that has a history of doing projects exactly like this.

And so one of their first projects was, in, in, in a region of the Amazon rainforest where there was an oil spill and they tried to use, fungi to absorb and break down some of those oil compounds.

And the reason why they can do that is because fungi have enzymes that can break down.

Really, it's the components of wood.

That's what it first evolved for.

And so these enzymes that can break down long chains of carbon molecules, those carbon molecules can sometimes also be found in oil.

And so they kind of have those tools, those enzymes and proteins to be able to break down the pollutants that you can find in oil spills.

and other times they can just absorb up heavy metals within them and just keep them inside their bodies so that those heavy metals, that might be toxic to plants, aren't continuing to be in the soil and move around in the soil.

And so one of our more recent projects, that's still ongoing, or really, we're wrapping it up, is a project, where we've tried to put fungi, in these kind of little bottles.

Is is kind of a word for it.

They look like sandbags.

We put them in areas that have been severely burned.

as you know, the West Coast is experiencing, more frequent and more intense fires.

And so when human structures get burned, like houses and, and other types of buildings, the materials we use in the construction of those buildings, sometimes they can have heavy metals in them that when they get burned by an intense fire, they can get down into the soil.

And so, I'm really excited to see the results of that project.

That's fascinating.

Did you have something to add to that?

No, I we're both fascinated here in the studio.

What is the biggest barrier to scaling Miko remediation efforts?

I think it's really probably just growing up the mycelium, which I think Kimberly would would know more about.

It seems like there's a lot of incredible companies and, and biotechnology working on trying to scale up the mycelium so that it could become the size of, say, like a wall, right?

To where you could put an entire barrier of a fungal block or mycelial block in a place so that when water flows through it or when soil is encountering it, there is a greater surface area for the fungi to absorb and, and help sequester those, chemicals or pollutants.

Kimberly, let it let's turn to you.

you might have something to add about that barrier to scaling.

my committee micro remediation efforts.

I'm going to get this right.

But I also want to talk about your work being as as I sure you kind of alluded to, it's a part of a much larger conversation about alternative proteins.

What do you think that the future holds for micro foods in the context of food security and climate resilience?

I think it's definitely part of the solution.

So I think there's also talks about different technologies and alternative proteins.

You know, there's a cell based, fungi based, I think all of the solutions need to exist.

Like they all have their prayers and icons.

you know, with thermally based proteins.

I started primates in 2017.

And so we've only been in the market for the last two years or so.

And so it did take a good year, five plus years of development to, you know, to get the products to market.

and so it's it's been a lot of development and we're still such early days of really discovering what applications, for can be used for.

and, and so I think that in terms of food security, and just overall food access, for countries and people of all, different walks of life and, and places, I think it holds a lot of solutions because of how efficient it is.

So we were talking earlier about the sustainability.

You can take, much of your inputs to make high quality sources of protein, for people all over the world.

So that's something that I'm very personally passionate about.

you know, we're tackling, our plates at home and our sandwiches.

first.

But, you know, our aspirations are very global because we do have a really powerful technology that's inspired.

And, we're building off of nature.

what, has made us ill as a species.

And, we would not be here without fungi.

And so really, going back to our roots to discover all of these great ways of leveraging nature.

So we call it technology, but it is actually very, very old.

It's just that it's such a great way of framing it.

And going back to what I just asked, I Shari'a, what is the biggest barrier from your vantage point to scaling this?

So we work within the confines of traditional industries.

And so, there's a lot of dynamics that I think consumers don't realize exist in terms of how to get new products to market.

or in our case, you know, like new foods to people's plates.

and so we've actually found, a lot of great, you know, allies and partners along the way.

But we are doing something that is creating a new category of products, and we're disrupting a age old industry, with a product that is healthier, that is better.

and there tends to be a lot of, it's a not necessarily pushback, but some skepticism or scared ness, fearfulness from the traditional industries because what we're doing is so new and potentially disruptive.

and you know, what I like to say to that is, you know, we're all trying to do the same thing as a food industry, which is give people healthier sources of foods, meet people where they are, and also deliver an experience that people know and love already.

deli meats are the most consumed food in America, but they're full with nitrates and preservatives and things that are literally killing people.

and our kids, like nitrates are a class one carcinogen, according to the World Health Organization, people are waking up to this.

But there's also a not a great way to deal with it from the conventional meat side.

So we've actually like, reinvented it in a way where it we can do away with all the bad stuff.

And so that's really disrupted.

So we've just found that it has been, actually more challenging to navigate the industry than it has been.

Consumers like we are met with really, really open arms from consumers, who have left the deli, who are at the delis, who are looking for healthier options.

and so, yeah, it's, I think the challenges of any, new company, breaking into a really, really old space.

and I just shout out for those of you listening in the Rochester area here in Rochester, we have grass fed butcher, which is a vegan deli, and it makes its vegan deli meat here in Rochester.

So you could go there and try out some of the alternatives.

We're talking about.

Kimberly, is there a risk of commodifying fungi in ways that harm ecosystems?

Because there's I don't want to say no because there's always a potential to I mean, too much of anything is bad.

I think it's making sure that mission organizations, companies or nonprofits or developers, you know, tackling, the production of fungi are doing it in a sustainable way and thinking about what is the impact ten, 20, 50 years, 100 years into the future.

but as of right now, I think we're we're so, so early in getting people aware that fungi is even a potential solution to a lot of our biggest problems, from plastic food, etc..

I don't think that today, it's a concern, but I do think that responsible stewardship is very important.

Thank you.

Yeah, that's it's a it's an important point.

And and Stacy, I'm sure you also want to weigh in on that.

I'm wondering, Stacy, if you think that the general public might be starting to shift in how they view fungi, or are mushrooms still relegated to a punchline or an afterthought?

What do you think?

They have definitely been gaining in popularity over the last, you know, over the last ten years, and each year it seems to be picking up a little bit more speed.

You even see mushrooms, you know, mushroom items of T-shirts and bags and toys.

It's it's part of, it's on our minds these days.

Yeah, but most people, don't really feel confident enough to be able to go out and harvest something and, bring it back for their table in their family.

It takes it takes a little bit of education.

You don't need to learn every mushroom that there is.

I don't know every mushroom that there is.

And that's okay.

if you have, sort of a pared down list of things that are easy to identify, reliably found, and have no potentially dangerous lookalikes, you've kind of got a a list of safe mushrooms.

And that's a really good way to approach, learning about them and building that confidence to go out and actually harvest them and bring them back.

part of that, it can be done through traditional ways.

Well, there's wonderful technical field guide and, but they are again, technical.

And if it's the first time you're trying to learn about mushrooms, that can be a bit intimidating.

So I like the opportunity to teach people face to face in my classes.

And also I, taking people out into the woods to do forays, to do foraging and seeing it in, smelling it and picking it up is different than reading about it in a book.

Yeah, well, I was I was going to ask you how you work with people to help build a relationship with fungi that's respectful and curious rather than extractive.

And it sounds like it's just experiential.

Is that is that what you would say is, a lot of mushroom hunting is not just being able to identify the mushroom itself.

You need a lot a lot of understanding of what environment you're in and your timing and all of that.

So through, through gaining that understanding, you really broadening the way that you experience being in nature itself and finding mushrooms, no matter how many times I found mushrooms, it is the most exciting thing.

Every time.

It's the most exciting thing I've ever done.

And I understand that, it's really easy to just want to rush out.

You see the treasure in front of you, and you want to just rush out and pick all of them.

Yeah, I get it.

Yeah.

You must be so excited when you come across one that you don't know what it is.

I always, there is so many little tiny mushrooms that I. I don't know what they are if they're not edible, medicinal or potentially dangerous.

They're the ones I learned first.

But there's there's 400.

So I'm always stumbling across some tiny little thing that I have to go.

I wonder who you are.

This is the first episode of Environmental Connections that I have been smiling the entire episode.

By the way, you should see the chat that's going on with my producers over here.

Like there's so much information about mushrooms happening.

What what are some of your favorite local species and are any of them in danger?

I teach, like my top ten mushrooms.

These are chicken of the woods.

Our oyster mushrooms are chanterelles.

the, we have wonderful lobster mushrooms in our area.

And morels, of course.

these are mushrooms that you have probably seen if you've spent any time in the woods and wondered what they are.

Can I.

Can I eat this?

They are mushrooms that you will encounter.

And once you get used to seeing them and you have an idea of what it is that you are looking at, it's pretty hard to misidentify the this group of mushrooms, which is why I chose to teach them.

and there's only some of them.

Only have one, you know, they only look like this.

There is no other mushroom that looks like this.

And then you have some mushrooms that have quite a few lookalikes, starting with mushrooms that don't really have lookalikes.

It's a really good place to start and build up your confidence and experience.

Yeah, the first time I tried the chicken of the woods, I was like flabbergasted.

It was so meaty in the way it tasted.

I mean, it really was kind of like a meat and potatoes experience with the stir fry that that I didn't make it.

I can't cook, but someone made it for me.

What's your favorite mushroom dish, by the way?

people ask me what my favorite mushroom is, and I say it's like telling you which of my children are the favorite.

it's hard to say.

It's, If I had to choose, I would say my Taki, which is head of the woods.

It's a fall mushroom.

They tend to be rather large, and they're aromatic and incredibly versatile in their cooking.

Up until recently, I had never seen cultivated ones in a grocery store before.

I did actually buy a little from Wegmans.

They had my turkey.

I said, let's try it.

And it cultivated is maybe slightly different, but it's a good way to get a taste for mushrooms.

Other than the ones that you're used to having to try something new, that they're out there in the stores now, which is wonderful.

Yeah, I'll try that next time I go to Wegmans.

And just to bring in the last hour of environmental connections, I'll plug in my car, at the charging station there and get my mushrooms.

We have a comment from a YouTube viewer.

Chris Cooper says, I want to connect with other micro files.

Am I saying that right?

Michael?

Files.

Okay, great.

Are there any groups or communities in the Rochester area?

I know you're from Ithaca, but do you happen to know the answer to that?

Rochester is the Rochester Area Mycological Association.

So it's Rama and it is actually one of the bigger and more active groups in our general region.

it looks like it was founded in 1984.

And that's I'm getting this information, from from the folks in the booth who are very excited that this group has existed for so long where they take, groups or groups, meet on different locations and go out foraging together.

And they have a very active Facebook group, it looks like.

So, Chris, if you're watching, thank you for the question.

And you can head on over to their Facebook group.

And we have an email from Alex.

Alex says it seems like fast food could be one of the easiest use cases for supplementing or replacing with micro protein.

I know I'm not getting ground beef from Taco Bell.

No cow should die to be made into a Big Mac, says Alex.

Just make it something nominally better that my doctor won't yell at me for eating like an impossible Burger.

That's true.

yeah.

Kimberly, you might have some thoughts on that as well.

Like the Impossible Burger, the Beyond Burger, that whole kind of trend of food.

It's it's I think it definitely has a wonderful place in the world, but certainly not in your optimally healthy category.

One would probably argue.

What do you think?

Yeah, I think that there are a lot of folks who've gone after the burger, the nuggets, a lot of these like very processed, plates that we just don't eat every day.

sandwiches are the most consumed food in America.

almost as many sandwiches are in every day.

Two cups of coffee were consumed about.

I think it's 100 million.

and so there's a lot of sandwiches being consumed, and they're just not great for which is our occasion.

So, yes, I think, you know, the fast food, angle is a great place for plant based because it is 92% of consumers are now looking for healthier options, and very aware that, they should be thinking about the foods that are putting in our bodies, though I have a friend who when when Burger King started carrying the Impossible Burger, I have a friend who went through the drive thru and got it and sat in the parking lot and cried with joy because it was like just such a a culture shift, a moment that so many of the fast food restaurants are starting to go there.

Kimberly, what's one thing you wish more people understood about fungi?

Yeah.

Little bit.

Interesting question.

I you probably there's a lot of diversity within fungi.

And so they're not all mushrooms.

We love mushrooms.

I personally love mushrooms.

I also forage for them, in California.

and so nothing wrong with mushrooms, but I think a lot of people have an aversion to mushrooms or just this, preconceived notion of what they are so that they encourage folks to learn that there's so much more than the fungi kingdom.

and, there's probably some way out there that you will like.

Yeah.

That's a great that's a great point.

Just learn one thing about it.

I sort of think like post-human.

There will be roaches and rats.

Pigeons and mushrooms.

That's just my non-science, my nonscientific perspective.

Speaking of science, let's go to I soiree, an actual scientist, I swear you.

What gives you hope about the role of mushrooms in our climate?

Future?

I, I, I think really just, the fact that they can, they can evolve kind of on a faster time scale than plants or animals can.

Right?

So when we kind of think of, a fungus that grows on strawberries, we notice that it grows pretty quickly.

Right?

And then it might start producing that fuzziness which is at sexual structures.

And so it gets there really quick.

Right.

it's a lot different than animals.

That might take a few years to like, right.

Hit puberty, or become sexually mature.

And so I think there there is some hope there that they can evolve and adapt pretty quickly.

But I just I just also want to say that, I am scared for them too, you know, it's it's not all hope and, and beams of sunshine over here but are really vulnerable organisms just like plants, animals.

and we are.

And so, I, I am concerned, I think the fungi and, and the every organism out there has a role in adapting and working together to try and build resilience.

And the more we try and keep, habitats intact, you know, and, and the way that they evolve to, like, rain forests, right.

Like not touching them and then not raising them down to, like, grow soy farms for animal agriculture, which, by the way, I have also been vegan for a number of years.

So I really I excited that I'm in good company here.

but yeah, the more we keep those habitats intact, the more they have a chance to build that resilience and adapt to a changing climate.

What would you say if there's like a particular species of fungus that you think deserves more attention scientifically or culturally, what would you say it is?

Oh, my gosh, that put that I totally I know it's it's a lot like that question of asking which is my favorite kid.

I, I guess I'm going to have to say I'm not even going to pick just one fungus.

I'm going to pick an entire kind of group of fungi.

I think that ask asking why seeds, are really, really cool.

So this includes Morales and the little elf cup fungi, if you've seen those, yeah.

They are just a really cool group of organisms.

and and many of them produce mushrooms, and they just have really cool chemistry going on there.

and a lot of them, when I have worked in like, post-fire burned ecosystems, there are some of the first ones that come up after a fire.

And so I think that they have some really cool potential.

I think they should be studied more.

Yeah.

Well, I'm going to ask you one more very difficult question, because it's still the morning where you are and, hopefully you've had your caffeine if you had unlimited funding to advance one fungi based solution to climate change, where would you put it?

she's like, I think coming on the show that I know it.

That's kind of terrifying.

I think I would put it towards, drought resistance and researching how to improve drought resistance and fungi.

Right.

Like if I could magically splice a set of genes or, but yeah.

Yeah, just basically put research into how more fungi might become drought resistant.

I think that is one of the huge things that climate change is going to usher in is increased periods of drought and increased intensity of drought across the world.

and that makes me nervous because I think a lot of us intrinsically associate fungi with rain, right?

Like, here in Wisconsin, as soon as, like, spring starts, every time it rains, regardless of whether I had to bike home in it, I'm like, yes, that means my buddies are going to be coming up out of the soils.

And, and yeah, it just kind of devastates me to think about a world in which they go through longer periods of not experiencing rain like I would want them to try and be able to, to make it through that.

but but I also have to insert that, so I research invasive golden oyster mushrooms.

And so I kind of love the way that you started this show.

And there is a real risk the invasive fungi pose to native fungi.

Right.

So, when we're talking about foraging and wondering if climate change is going to affect them, I'm about to publish my my first paper where I show the golden oyster mushrooms are are out competing and disrupting native fungal communities.

And so the dead wood environments that golden oysters start to colonize, they experience lower fungal diversity.

And so and it's kind of a really shocking and an awful thing to see.

And another part of my publication I explore how would the predict trade climate, you know, so like NASA has predictions of how the climate might change in the next, 20 and 50 years.

I created a species distribution model based on those predicted climate data, and it shows that golden oysters have a lot more area in North America that they might spread to with the predictions of climate change.

And so that means more potential habitat that they could establish.

And that also means more potential fungal biodiversity that they could outcompete and and disrupt.

I want to read your paper.

That sounds thank you.

Interesting.

I love that this is what you're studying, too.

I was studying theater and like, just, you know, rolling around in a room wearing all black and smoking clove cigarets and you're actually doing for.

Yeah.

you're nodding, Stacey, you're nodding a lot to what Surya is talking about.

I assume that this is resonating with you.

Do you think that fungi have been left out of the environmental movement, and if so, why?

Like, do you feel like this is just a piece of the conversation that we need to be having more of?

Well, fungi are an important part of the whole environmental conversation.

I think a bigger part than we really give it credit.

and there are so many different aspects, in regards to how fungi connect and influence in our, responsive to the environment itself.

and it is wonderful as it is to go out in forage.

I recognize that it takes education.

It takes the time in not if all of us are out foraging while we're going to damage the ecosystem and there'll be less mushrooms.

And I just wanted to offer that kind of a, a mid-ground for people or even more of a beginning ground until you are comfortable foraging is to grow mushrooms yourself.

that's terrifying to me.

Just just to be honest, another thing I teach is mushroom cultivation, and we, grow mushrooms on logs.

You inoculate them with the mycelium, and it takes over the log just like it would a standing or falling tree.

Okay.

and you can forage in your own backyard, and you know exactly what mushroom that is, because you put it there.

You know what you're telling me on?

And, we have an email from Jillian, and I think this one's going to be for you, Stacy.

Chicken of the woods is so pretty.

That said, I'm not especially interested in foraging, but she says would love to grow some.

That's what you were just talking about.

And she says, can I find people who teach that?

While it seems that you just did, Jillian, you did indeed.

you can, you can do cultivated chicken of the woods.

It's one that is, it takes extra steps and it's a bit more difficult.

You need to sterilize the wood before you inoculated, where usually you're just drilling holes in the log, putting in the spawn in the holes, and you cover it up with some wax.

Very easy.

then you sit back and wait, with the chicken of the woods, it's a little bit more difficult to cultivate, but it can be done.

Michael.

rhizome mushrooms.

Ones that grow in conjunction with certain plants or trees.

They need to be in the presence of those, and they'll be in the ground.

alongside the tree's roots.

Those aren't very easy to cultivate, but mushrooms that grow on trees generally are.

And how can people get involved with your efforts?

You can visit my website at Flex Mushrooms here.

A description of the classes and workshops.

how to contact me if you want to go out in the woods and do some foraging?

Well, I love it.

It's just so exciting.

I you know, I did have more questions.

I, I'm very excited about all that we're talking about today.

You really you all lifted me up so much.

Unfortunately, that's all the time we have.

So my huge thanks to I soiree of your bar who?

Kimberly Ley and Stacy Estabrook for helping us to explore the complex and surprising and very inspiring world of fungi or fungi or fungi, or however you want to say it.

Until next time, I'm Jasmine Singer.

Thanks for making today's environmental connections.

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