From WXXI news.

This is connections.

I'm Evan Dawson.

Our connection this hour was made in 2012.

That was the year that the Department of Human Nutrition, Foods and Exercise at Virginia Tech started to follow American ideas about veganism and plant based foods.

food specifically.

So over the next decade, the department found some significant changes taking place.

Not everything was moving in a straight line, though.

Their first finding was that the number of Americans following a predominantly plant based diet more than doubled over a decade.

12% in 2012, 26% at the end of 2022.

But keep in mind, most of those 26% are not fully vegan or vegetarian.

What they are is a group of Americans who made the choice to add a more plant based eating regime to their diet, even if they are occasionally having meat or other animal products.

The actual number of vegans in this country is kind of a moving target.

Some surveys put it around one half of 1%, others as high as 3%.

But the team at Virginia Tech found that a growing number of Americans would say that they wanted to try a modified veganism.

A record number of Americans was open to a plant based diet, or mostly plant based.

Fueled by strong interest among younger adults.

Baby boomers?

Not so much.

So here's the rub.

The vast majority of Americans who say they are interested in going plant based are still not doing it.

The lead researcher of the study, Catherine Savage Stanley, noted this disconnect.

She said, quote, U.S. consumers have favorable perceptions of foods and beverages that support human and environmental health.

But that's not usually translating into what they're purchasing and consuming.

End quote.

So what was holding the movement back?

Well, vegan content marketer Hannah Sentance offers a possible answer.

In a recent piece sent, Anneke writes that the vegan movement missed a huge opportunity over the last decade by too often being absolute Buddhist by not celebrating each small step toward more plant based eating.

She writes the following quote.

When I made the decision to go vegan almost eight years ago, I was angry.

Like Scorpio style angry.

I was rageful at meat companies, furious at people who were complicit in the death of animals and irate at the world.

There wasn't much joy in my new veganism since I was consumed with sadness and anger.

My mother empathized with the animals, but it wasn't enough for her to completely give up meat and dairy.

She went mostly vegetarian, but in my eyes that wasn't good enough.

Cue heavy handed judgment here.

To be honest, it annoyed me.

My anger was completely uncalled for.

But hindsight is 2020.

I wish I had realized then that not only were her actions none of my business, but that raging at her certainly wasn't helping.

So the million dollar question was what could actually help?

And the answer is her switch to eating mostly plant based foods.

Say it with me.

Increment all.

Change.

Incremental change counts.

End quote.

Which brings us to today's conversation.

If more Americans say they want to move at least incrementally more, plant based.

Is there an opening in the marketplace?

Two relatively new companies are betting on it.

Both were fueled in part by RIT Venture Creations, which is a business incubator that supports nascent enterprises.

And there's a bit of a scandal to this story.

One of my guests is now selling quite a lot of vegan and plant based foods.

He's not even fully vegan himself.

I just outed Ryan Jennings, the chef, president, CEO and co-founder of Sweet Pea Plant Kitchen.

Although, to be fair, he's like 80% vegan, 80% strong, 80% strong.

I happen to have, had a chance to have some of Ryan's food, so I'm a little bit biased here.

You're very good at what you do.

It's great to have you here.

Thank you.

It's such a pleasure.

And it's great to have Janessa Steinberg, who is the founder of Pan A cheese A with us as well, which is what tell us what pan of cheese is.

Punch cheese is a plant based parmesan cheese.

So we are the first clean label shake or cheese on the market.

Can you.

So you can call to cheese even if it doesn't have animal products?

Absolutely.

It is a cashew cheese to cashew cheese.

All right.

so we're going to talk about how that can be either.

Welcome back.

Just to get a test of that one.

and they've both been advised by a venture coach with RIT Venture Creations.

That's Brad Van Auken who's on the line with us.

Brad, thank you for making time for the program today.

Absolutely.

It's been an honor and a pleasure to work with these two companies.

How do you think they're doing so far?

Brad?

They're both doing really well.

as in any startup, they've encountered problems, they've done pivots.

but throughout the whole process, they've been growing and getting better and better.

it has, graduated from our incubator, and, Sweet Pea is still with us, but, I've enjoyed working with both of them, and they're actually doing quite well.

And they're adding to the vegan community.

So this our I mean, there's a business side of the story here.

There's an understanding the marketplace, really understanding American behavioral, what we say we want versus what we actually do and what might bridge some of that gap, which I think it's really interesting because, you know, Ryan, you and I talked a little on the phone last night.

There's no doubt when you look at all this data, a lot of people say they want to do more of what you are mostly doing and sweep in, and yet the numbers aren't translating in huge numbers yet.

So did you see this as a big market opportunity?

We did.

I mean, you know, Sweetpea really started with our first customer, who was actually my partner in Sweet Pea.

my partner, Mike, you know, he was somebody who was in his late 30s, always kind of struggled with his weight and was starting to have some health effects.

as, as a result of that, you know, two young kids wanted to get down and play with him on the floor, who was starting to feel like he couldn't.

He also had a paternal grandfather died from a massive heart attack at 49.

And, you know, he just didn't really know what to do with it.

And, you know, he'd been going to doctors all this time and they put him on blood pressure medication stat.

And, you know, all this kind of stuff.

And he didn't want to live his life that way.

And thankfully, he had a friend who was in kind of a similar spot.

And, this person needed to heart surgery to repair a blockage or that unclog one rather.

And, you know, somebody actually said to him, if you switch to a whole food plant based diet, you won't have to have that surgery.

Mike thought this guy was crazy.

He's like, go get surgery.

You got kids.

And thankfully and listened to him.

And within six months, the blockage had reduced to the point where he didn't need a surgery.

And within a year, his cardiologist said he was heart attack proof.

So like when you get that kind of information, have that real life experience, it becomes pretty undeniable that doing more or some or all of this is going to improve your life.

I want to say, because we don't have a doctor on the program.

We've had plenty of doctors on talking about plant based eating.

And what's undeniable is it's better for you.

Yes.

I mean, what you're describing is not just a one off anecdote.

No.

There's been all kinds of data on the effect on heart health and things like that.

So what's the mission of Sweet Pea?

We started with the mission of making the, the effects of a whole food based diet attainable for anyone.

And we do that by giving them the tools.

You know, we started with the food, for a large portion of the time we've been in business, we also offered, nutrition coaching.

We've kind of we pivoted away from that, as Brad alluded to, to make the business more sustainable.

But, you know, going back to Mike's experience, right?

He goes and he takes a Yorkie, Cornell program with the, Campbell's.

he reads all the books.

He goes and watches the game changers, the forks over knives, all these kind of things.

Really takes in all that information.

But Mike's a foodie, right?

Like he's somebody who really enjoyed going out to eat, enjoyed, you know, the finer things in life.

And he was eating food that was making him feel better.

But he didn't enjoy what he was eating.

And that we found, is a real key component to making it sustainable.

At 25%, 50%, 100% is that people are enjoying what they're eating.

And so that's kind of where I came in, taking my background in fine dining and hospitality and French training and applying it to this whole food plant based ethos to say like, hey, this stuff can be delicious, and let's show you how and let's try to make it as affordable as possible so somebody could be eating with us more than once a week.

So they order and I hate to do this to you because this is my frame of reference and it's even a little dated, but they order in a Blue Apron style, you know, like a meal at a time kind of thing.

Or three meals at a time.

Yeah.

So a Blue Apron is they do some fully prepared meals, I believe, now, but that was more of a meal kit model when I was a kid.

Yes.

Yeah.

So you get the different components and then you kind of finish it and you get dinner on the table in 20 or 30 minutes.

Although I'll tell you for our, at our that's what I was going to say.

We did a lot of R&D before we started Sweet Pea.

And you find that these things just take a lot longer and you might as well.

It's just gone to the store yourself 100%.

so Sweet Pea, are all fully prepared meals?

we recently switched to a new packaging system that allows us, to extend the refrigerated shelf life to ten days.

so somebody orders from us online, they come, pick up from our kitchen on Sunday or, get home delivery, way, all the way around the area.

We go pretty far.

How far do you go?

40 miles from our kitchen in Rochester.

And then we've also set up pickup points in Batavia, Buffalo, Syracuse and soon to be Ithaca, is circa and Syracuse will be the home of our next two locations.

So people will be able to, get home delivery and come see us there, too.

but, you know, we have people who eat every single morsel of food from Sweet Pea, from breakfast, lunch and snacks in between.

also getting, you know, we want another company called Junior Bar this year to get, nutrition bars to folks for those in between moments.

But then, you know, we have folks that order their lunches for the week or, you know, we have younger working families who get, you know, just a little bit of everything so they can, you know, have their kids start having some of those things and then they have something else.

And then, earlier this year, we participate in something called the Good Life Challenge, where we work with area schools to have a ten day plant based challenge.

And our partners, and that's Mobile Consulting, wanted to add, a mind diet or something akin to the blue zones or Mediterranean diet.

so we actually started offering a few of those items as well, where we serve, lean animal proteins and, and, fish as well, in addition to, like, the whole food plant based, you know, sides.

So that's some of the story and the origin story of Sweet Pea.

for Janessa Steinberg, the founder of Kind of Cheese.

you want to take us back to sort of your vegan story and then how it became a business.

Absolutely.

So, I became vegan 16 years ago.

So this is when the plant based lifestyle was, I'd say, even before in its infancy.

I think it really I think plant based, living and eating has really taken off in the last 5 to 6 years.

So in 2008, it was, you know, to find plant based products was scarce.

to even find a recipe you could make with local ingredients that, you know, doesn't take too long.

it was really difficult.

I come from an Italian Maltese family, and I grew up in my grandmother's Mediterranean kitchen.

Everything was, clean ingredients.

nothing is processed.

Everything is at your fingertips.

You can whip it together and feed the whole family, and it's whole food nutrition.

so when I decided to become vegan, you know, my family thought it was a joke or know a phase.

They're like, what, are you going to eat at parties?

That's exactly why they say that to you.

What are you going to eat for breakfast?

What are you having for lunch?

Like how am I supposed to feed you when you come over?

Coming for the holidays?

Are you bringing your own food?

What do you mean no eggs?

Janessa, you're hosting.

You cook.

but that had a lot to do with creating the product itself.

So, I was in my early 20s.

I'm a Toronto native, so I moved, moved downtown, went into my kitchen and had literally no idea what to make for myself, how to make chicken parmesan or lasagna.

But you just did it because it didn't come out of nowhere, right?

So I had to edit the time.

Well, if you want to mention it.

Okay.

I took a, trip with my friend to LA for four days, and, she bought a book on the way, and it was called skinny, which, yes, that is what it was called.

The book's name wasn't which.

Right?

Skinny which it was a short read, straight to the point.

It was perfect for me at the time, and it talked about the health, of eating animal products as well as the ethics behind animal products.

And I read that book in four days.

I the last, plate of meat I ever ate was in LA.

I flew home and I pledged, you know, full vegan, plant based life.

That was it.

No relapse.

So no nothing.

Three weeks after I had decided not to eat meat anymore, I had tried some, like, Italian sausage, and it just didn't sit right with me.

I didn't it wasn't the same sort of, you know, meal that it was before.

But letting go of the meat was easy for me.

what was so difficult was dairy.

Dairy is truly, almost an it's an addiction.

Like we are weak to the hormones that are in animal dairy products to not, when you take a bite of dairy cheese, you're like, oh, that's so good.

I need to have more because there's case of orphans that come from the cow milk to be sent to the, the calf to want to get it to return back to the mother for more milk.

But that grows.

That's supposed to grow, you know, a two ton animal in such, So we're literally powerless to dairy.

so that was truly like, I would I would fight with myself.

It would be eight months in.

I literally fall off the wagon and have, you know, pizza with cheese and I'd pay for it.

But I didn't know growing up that I was lactose intolerant.

It was just a part of life, like I'd always be ill and everyone was like, oh, whatever.

You know, it's not the food.

Like, it's just not the way my family thought about anything.

so I, I was determined to figure out, how to mimic dairy products.

in my kitchen, I figured out ricotta, you know, mozzarella or anything creamy and smooth.

parmesan.

I didn't really figure it out.

It took ten years, but I wasn't working on it for ten years.

so living in Toronto, the food scene there is amazing.

there's every culture and every fusion of cultures, cuisines.

It's just an amazing place to be.

And I would go to these mom and pop shops to find plant based parmesan cheese.

I would buy it would be expensive.

And I hated it.

And I threw it away, and it was a waste of my money.

and I was sitting.

So this was like six years ago or five years ago now.

I was sitting on my couch and there was a commercial for, spaghetti with red sauce.

And at the end of it, they sprinkled parmesan on top.

And I just threw my hands up in the air, and I said, that's it.

Like I can't have another plate of pasta.

This was the moment.

This was it.

This was like the deter the determination to just figure it out.

I went and I went straight into my kitchen.

I got three ingredients together.

It was cashews, nutritional yeast and garlic salt.

I don't think you're supposed to give us the recipe, but go ahead.

It's right on the side of the jar.

It is on the shelf.

That is, it's all there.

It's it's more than that now.

I mean, over the years, I figured out, you know, different ingredients and how to make it and all that.

and I'll make the story shorter.

I threw it together.

It was this weird, idea of parmesan.

It was yellow and crumbly and didn't taste or look like it, but put it in my fridge in a mason jar, and I'd make it over and over and over again over the years.

And I started sharing it, with friends and family in Toronto.

I had a job at the time, everyone you know said, oh, you should make a company out of it.

And I said, I just don't know how to do that.

You know?

It's just not I have a job, and I'm not about to give it all up and figure out, you know, the startup world, which, I'm, I'm deep in right now, and it's a roller coaster, and you need a good ecosystem.

So figuring it out.

Thank goodness for Vichy because we wouldn't have I've made it as far as we did, but, I moved to Rochester in 2020 the worst time ever.

But that's when it happened.

sweeping right?

It wasn't.

Yeah.

Roses can grow out of concrete.

And now you're at a point where pop punches is just.

I mean, it's parmesan.

It's it's vegan.

It's.

I mean, say nut based.

It's vegan parmesan.

Yeah.

So it's a cashew based cashew shaker cheese.

and it's five ingredients.

Clean label.

And that's what's so important about plant based food right now.

It needs to be whole.

Whole food ingredients.

clean because you can say you're vegan.

I'm not I'm not going to brand bash, but there are certain vegan meats that I will not bring into my house and cook for the family.

I mean, I will on a one off, you know, for something fun or quick, but, to feed my family and keep them healthy, it needs to be, plant based products that are clean label and, consumers are really turning over every single, product now and reading what's in it, which is great.

It's a great time.

I think people are really starting to become more health conscious in that sense.

So sell by the jar?

Yes, by the jar.

And we had such a great response when we first hit the market in 2023, people were buying like 4 or 5 jars at a time on our website that we had to introduce a 1 pound refill bag, and people are buying 3 pounds at a time with a lovers bundle, which is, a shaker and a pound.

And it's a good problem to have.

Yeah.

And we're coming up with new flavors and an allergen free ones.

So how big is your your market reach right now?

Where are you selling?

So we are just in the United States.

this just in the United States.

I thought, like just Rochester.

That's pretty good.

Well, we have really good news.

At the beginning of January, we launched in Whole Foods.

So we are in 56 Whole Foods, New York State, Connecticut, new Jersey and PA.

So we are selling online, selling on Amazon and in Whole Foods.

So in the northeast, before I bring bread back in here, what is part of cheese?

I mean, so punches used, the name came to be, when we were coming up with our name, I wanted something that started with a P sounded a little fancy and, you know, Italian.

So initially it was punchier, and so punchier is it can be like, a cure all.

you know, a Band-Aid for something.

It could mean something good or bad.

But in Greek mythology.

Panacea.

Yeah, right.

Sorry.

So there's no panacea.

Yeah, exactly.

As long as you have the hands and.

so in Greek mythology, Panagia is, the Greek goddess of universal health.

And I thought, that's great.

You know, women owned business, health.

so my son was four at the time.

We came up with the name, and he kept asking at home for the pint of cheese.

A and that was and I thought, you know what?

That's better.

I love it when a four year old redirects your marketing.

That's great.

Yeah.

So it's cheesy, it's fancy.

It's longer.

the the emblem on the on the punishes, logo is my family crest, you know, and it just so happens to have leaves on it.

It was just meant to be.

So it's a real family affair.

so Brad Van Orkin is the venture coach with our I.T Venture Creations that has worked with both of the business owners who are with us in studio here.

they're telling their stories very well here, Brad.

But realistically, you know, you want to see them grow and gain market share.

What's it going to take for them and what do you think the ceiling is here?

Well, first of all, Venture Creations are it's venture creations.

really is looking for scalable businesses.

So we only want businesses that can grow and scale and become major companies that either could be, you know, IPO one day that that that's a pipe dream for most companies or, you know, sell out to someone else or if they want, just grow organically, but be in the hundreds of millions of dollars.

I think both of these companies are on their way toward that.

you know, what we do at BCI is, active coaching that that's that's pretty much what we do.

Everything from customer discovery, unique value proposition, business model, revenue streams, pitch decks, connecting with funding sources.

So what we try to do is just be there for any time that, something needs to be solved.

There's something needs to be brainstormed or a connection needs to be made.

And, you know, and that just happens.

we have a pretty good food ecosystem in upstate New York.

You know, people talk about photonics, but frankly, between Cornell and all of the, you know, orchards and, viticulture, you know, just all all of the things the, the dairies, there is a strong ecosystem for food in New York State is both Ryan and and Janessa can tell you.

So, I think, you know, the sky's the limit.

you know, business founders have to have certain, attributes.

You know, they have to have a passion.

They have to have a high tolerance for risk.

they need to be able to overcome adversity again and again.

So there's this resilience and perseverance.

They need to learn from failure.

They need to be adaptable, strong work ethic.

Both of these guys have all of those things.

And that's what it takes because it's it's it's not an easy task to start and build a businesses.

Either of them will tell you, they can tell you, war stories that we've been through together.

But, but they're both doing really well.

Listen, I want to hear from you as you think about our eating habits.

Have you changed over the years?

Do you find yourself in that category of.

Yeah, I would say I want to eat more plant based, and I mostly don't, or I eat a little more plant based, or I'd like to explore more of that.

it's 8442952844295825526365.

Here in Rochester.

2639994 I'll start reading your emails in a moment.

Connection's a cyborg.

We've got a small pile of them already.

and you can join the chat on our YouTube page on the Sky news YouTube page if you're watching on there.

I want to ask our guests in studio if they agree with some of the analysis that I read from that vegan vegan content marketer Hannah sent Nick.

So I was reading her her page, and she kind of has this epiphany where she says, after eight years of veganism, that she was, she felt in her words, is not my words.

She felt she was too strident.

She was pushing her own mother away, that she was judging people who couldn't get all the way to where she was, and she was missing the opportunity to not only build relationships, maintain relationships, but also maybe like pull people on that journey, even if it's not all the way I was going to say whole hog.

And I'm not going to say that for veganism, even if it's not 100% right away.

So, Ryan, what about you?

I mean, as someone who's 80% strong yourself here, do you think that that part of the story in the first, maybe quarter century of this century is, we would be seeing more people eat, plant based?

We'd see more in the marketplace if some of what Senanayake is writing about was a little more toned down, I 100% agree with incrementalism is the only way to affect change.

I also have a lot of empathy for the 100 percenters who are strident in their beliefs.

You respect.

You respect the maximalists.

Absolutely.

because it takes everything to get, you know, I think a few political cycles ago, they were talking about an energy policy and both sides were one.

Took it from the other one.

Like we need an up all the above approach.

So we do need the maximalist who are like pushing things and pushing for reforms within industries.

And then we need people who are a little bit more incremental, who are, you know, having a a quiet conversation with somebody else, showing them their point of view, and then everybody has to listen, you know, to each other and then try and take from it what they think is best and do their own thing, because you can never force anybody into something.

They have to want to do it.

And when they do, you find that you get so much better results.

I mean, we see that with our customers and clients every single day, like somebody, the majority of our are the folks that that come to sweep are folks over 50 who've had a medical event of some kind and want to change the course of their health, their lifestyle, rather than medical intervention.

That's 50% of the people who walk through the door.

They're also 90% more likely to come back to us than somebody who doesn't have any of that sort of thing.

So, yeah, finding ways to give people the information that they need to make the decision that's right for them or their family, and then giving them enough choice within their so that they can make it sustainable has been key to what we've tried to do.

Janessa, has there been too much stridency in the vegan movement?

I would say, there's always going to be people on all ends of the spectrum.

when I first went vegan, I was when I was investigating the animal welfare industry or the the agriculture industry and the animal welfare in it.

I was flabbergasted, I was nauseous, I had to actually stop.

And I was like, you know what?

I get it.

I don't need to keep looking at it.

and, you know, it makes you look at the world differently.

But it's great that we're always learning and learning.

You know, as we learn, we keep integrating into, you know, society and not everyone.

You know, you can't push your your beliefs on everyone.

but I had a really interesting email from someone.

So what we do, it punishes.

we're not just catering to vegans.

we are catering to those who want to infuse plant based products onto their plate.

So flexitarians lactose intolerant.

the amount the so the percentage of vegan consumers worldwide is actually 3%, lactose intolerant, I think is about between 4 and 6%.

I can't remember, and flexitarian.

So the majority of global consumers worldwide of on an animal reduced diet is 42%.

So that's who's really moving the plant based, market.

So I have advertisement.

It's and they'll, it'll be pizza with punches on it or it'll be, pasta with meatballs, chicken wings with, you know, barbecue and parmesan on it.

and but my, you know, my consumers don't know if it's an imitation product or if it's a prop, or if it's, the real deal.

So I got an email from someone who was very upset with, a chicken wing advertisement that I had, with, you know, punch cheese on it.

And she said, you know, she she raises chickens and she rescues them, and she was highly offended.

and, you know, she wrote me a long email and I wanted to respond to her and saying, you know what?

It's better that we get on a larger platform instead of catering to just vegans, because I probably wouldn't be able to stay in business if I was just catering to vegans.

The the consumers that are moving everything are these flexitarians, you know, plant based and fusion stuff.

and we had a great conversation and by the end of it she said, thank you for what you're doing.

So you just have to, you know, figure out how to talk to people and convey your message.

And it's great when people that are on that side of the spectrum, hear you so I don't know if it stifles the vegan movement, but I know some people do feel a little alienated when something says vegan.

And that's also why we choose to say we are dairy free and plant based.

First of all, there's no doubt both of your businesses would be in trouble if your only client base was vegans, and that does.

That doesn't work, and I'm sure I don't even need we got Brad Van Auken.

I don't even need Brad to say that.

I'm pretty confident saying it would not work if that was your whole marketplace.

But to your point about the email exchange, some of your customers are on their way to becoming vegans and some may never get all the way there.

But if they're eating 20, 30, 50% fewer animal products, that's also probably, in your view, a win, isn't it?

Yeah, it helps the cause.

Absolutely.

Okay.

So I mean, I look on Ryan's face when I said only vegans, you can only market to vegans.

How far are you going to go?

Not that far.

Not that far.

yeah.

No, I mean, in hearing Vanessa sure that that story, you know, I just think of our ethos from day one at Sweet Pea has been meet people where they are.

And I think that guides us in the decisions we make as a business and how we treat our customers, how we treat our staff and ourselves like it's so important if you're looking to change anything, to meet people where they are and and help them, rather than tell them what to do.

And, you know, just that top down thinking never works.

I'm going to take a phone call.

so let me take Diane, Diana's call from Brighton.

Then what we'll do is in our second half hour, I'm going to ask our guest to tell you a little bit about.

For Janessa, it's going to be things that she loves to do with palm trees.

I want to hear from Ryan.

For the people were like, go and vegans.

Great.

But you know, it's not very delicious.

Ryan is going to try to sway you.

So we're going to we're going to have the sway.

The skeptics challenge in our second half hour here because I already have those emails, remember, like, well, I would, but you know, it's not very delicious.

they're going to disagree with you.

Diana in Brighton on the phone.

Hello?

Diana.

Go ahead.

Hi.

first I wanted to say I really appreciate the, beginning of the show where you're saying that you're not being as judgmental.

I think it's so critical and so important.

moderation in all things.

We're in a time where it's so important to accept each other, so bravo on that.

Thank you so much for starting that way.

and I also want to say that, yes.

I'm, and heard, and believe that there are, health issues in terms of the heart for, for veganism, but there are many other health issues.

When my daughter was a teenager, she was vegan, and she ended up getting extremely ill because she didn't have enough iron and she became anemic, which led to all sorts of fainting spells and broken bones and broken teeth and everything else.

And also for, for my, for instance, myself, I'm a very little person.

My bones are not dense.

I need to really, you know, look at the calcium.

I understand that there's calcium and other things.

Broccoli and, you know, all these things, but I'm just saying it's, it's it's a balance.

And when you when you talk about the health issues, I think just as you're trying to be moderate and encompass all look at other, other things.

There may be people who have health issues that it's more important for them to have access to other types of food other than than vegan folks.

Diana.

Yeah.

Diana, thank you for the phone call.

Thoughts from our guests in studio.

Ryan.

You want to start?

Yeah, I would say, that, you know, first off, that it's it's wonderful here to that to hear that point of view.

And it's a story that we've heard a lot at sweep.

And it's why initially, after selling the meals for just a few months, we added a team of registered dietitian nutritionist.

we unfortunately were unable to pursue that moving, through after this past year.

But we did find another, group of nutritionists, registered dietitians to work with, cereal and nutrition to refer our, our, our customers to.

Because, you know, sometimes in making these changes, you aren't getting all of the things that you need, in your diet to promote a healthy lifestyle just based on your taste and not having all that education.

So having somebody with a master's degree come up with a whole slate to make sure that you're getting the iron that you need, that you're getting B12 and vitamin D, getting enough protein, all of these different things, is really important.

And so that's why I say, like the education part of it.

And having help and accountability when making these changes is just as critical as, the foods themselves.

go ahead, Janessa, if you want to hit that too.

Yeah.

I really appreciate, the, the comment.

So I'm not sure if I'm going to get any backlash from this, but it's truly what I believe.

So, I don't believe, everyone's every person in the world body can support a full vegan diet maybe all the time or just part of the time.

but, the iron veganism definitely gets pegged with iron problems or calcium deficiency and all these things.

but I just want to say I was actually anemic before I became vegan.

but you have to listen to your body.

You have to, you know, make sure you're getting the right supplements you need or the right amino acids.

on our website at Planet Cheese, a.com, I have blogs explaining, you know, amino acid breakdowns, what your body needs.

I'm I'm not a registered dietitian or a doctor at all.

This is just things I've learned along the way.

my mother tried to be to be vegan, which I thought was great, and it just didn't work out for her.

you know, I don't I don't push it on anyone, but it's a great time to be plant based because the resources we have now are so accessible.

And I think that's key to making sure everyone can be the best healthy version of themselves.

Diana, thank you.

As we go to this only break, Elizabeth wanted to know, where do we find parmesan cheese?

online.

I don't know where you find parmesan cheese, but pan of cheese?

You want to spell it for people?

That would have been a really good name.

Also, actually.

Go ahead.

So it's Punnett cheese at p a n a c h e c a.com okay.

And sweet pea where are you going to find sweet pea.

You're going to find it.

It's sweet pea plant based.com.

s eat t play and tb a s e d sweet pea plant based.com.

That's right.

Okay.

Ryan Jennings is a chef, president, CEO, co-founder of sweet pea plant based kitchen.

Janessa Steinberg, founder of Pan, a cheesy bread bannock.

And down the line with us, he's a venture coach with RIT Venture Creations, which have helped fuel the launch of these businesses.

And we're talking about how they viewed the marketplace.

Given all that Americans will tell you about veganism and plant based food and then all that we eat and it doesn't always line up.

So we're going to come right back.

We'll take more of your feedback on the other side.

I'm Evan Dawson.

Thursday on the next connections, we sit down with Pulitzer Prize winning investigative journalist David Cay Johnston.

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We're going to talk about Doge, what's going on with the federal government, and more.

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This is connections.

I'm Evan Dawson.

All right, real quick before I jump right back to your feedback.

if I want a jar of peanut cheese, a how much for a jar on our website for an eight ounce shaker, it's 1299.

Okay.

And if I want to start setting up meals from sweet pea plant based kitchen, how much per meal?

they go down about as low as 1250.

But if it's just a single meal from our all carte menu.

the entrees are $15.

Okay.

And they serve.

How many?

One person.

One person.

Okay, there you go.

There's your some of the information that listeners have been asking about in terms of cost.

Okay.

Ariel says, build.

Yes.

Build a bigger tent rather than shut people out if they're not a hardcore vegan.

Any effort makes a difference for our own health, for the animals, and for the planet that we all share.

That's from Ariel, Julia says, I would love to see more restaurants with plant based offerings, as I would love to eat out with friends and family and not always feel like the downer.

Oh yeah, I mean, I guess early on, did you feel like the downer?

Yes, I did okay.

You do you feel like the downer anymore?

No, I don't okay.

But now when you go to restaurants there's always plant based options.

And if, she wants to go to tap one, seven seven, they have pint of cheese on their menu.

You can get a vegan lasagna while everyone else gets, you know, a regular traditional meal.

So that's on the top menu there.

Yep.

Okay.

And I know the Toronto scene's outstanding.

how do you rate the Rochester scene overall for dining out?

so Toronto has a larger population, of course.

You know, there's restaurants at every corner here.

it's far few between, but they are so good at what they do here.

the restaurants are great.

vegan options.

Vegan options.

It's almost everywhere.

Like, I don't go hungry going anywhere.

I don't have to do off the menu orders.

So it's it's, accessible.

It's great.

Okay, Ryan, I think we do an amazing job here in Rochester of of supporting all the different members of our community, whether they're vegan, they're omnivorous folks or anything else.

And we have we've.

Oh, we've.

For, I don't know, at least the last decade, I feel like we've really punched above our weight here in terms of the quality of restaurants that we have.

I mean, I know you've spoken to to many of these restaurateurs here in the show over, over that time, but, yeah, I, I'm as a chef, I'm very happy to be able to go out and eat here in Rochester bread when I can.

When people talk about why they want to eat more plant based or why they want to explore veganism, it's a range sometimes, to Ryan's point, it's health.

that's a lot of the time that's the case.

But certainly it's about, the kind of story that Janessa shared, which is, you know, maybe you see up close, animal welfare abuses or you think about, you know, values in different ways.

Is there any evidence that if you're starting a venture in any sort of an industry or line of work, that sort of a values based business is going to sustain itself?

Or does there have to be sort of a practicality?

Because I want to I want to be optimistic and say that people will spend their money on what they think is the right thing.

but that's a mixed set of data.

When I look at it, especially in terms of what we eat, bread.

So, there are businesses that have succeeded wildly based upon, values.

I won't go into the, the, news stations that focus on either the political right at the political left.

But they tap into values, as does a company like Patagonia for people that love the outdoors.

there has to be a unique value proposition.

And the only way you can really determine what that is is through a lot of customer discovery.

What in mainstream, business is called marketing research.

But within the startup world, it's called customer discovery.

The one thing I would say, and I, I said this to Janessa early on, I said, you know, you're that pan of cheese is both delicious and healthy.

And I think one of the messages we need to get out to people who are more, carnivores or omnivores or, you know, I've heard people say, if it's green, I'm not going to eat it.

You know, if I see something green on my plate, I'm going to throw it out.

it's, you know, it's not all iceberg lettuce and and these tomatoes that have no taste, because they've been shipped from 2000 miles away.

you know, in my household, we are about 80% plant based, maybe more.

And my wife is an amazing cook.

And she'll have 3 or 4 different dishes made of different vegetable combinations that all taste incredibly good.

And they're very different.

And so I think one of the things I would say to people that, have not eaten a lot of the plant based diet is, give it a try.

It's actually, you know, both what Sweet Pea is doing and what kind of cheeses are doing taste good.

I mean, it's not like you're going to give up good taste, but I think that's a part of it.

I think you have to eat it and say, wow, I just had a meal that filled me up.

That tasted good.

It's got to be good.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So yeah, it's got to be good.

Consumers will give you a shot, I think.

But that's why we're getting to the challenge that's coming up here.

Let me get let me work through some phone calls.

I get Tony and Audrey.

Tony in first calling from Toronto.

Hello, Tony.

Go ahead.

Hey.

How are you doing down there?

Very good.

I love the show.

I've been watching it.

And, I suspect John as his face might be turning red because I'm her dad.

I was I don't know that.

So.

So part of the part of the call is just to say, you know how hard Janessa and her husband, Ryan, have been working on the on the and the cheese, product, and we wish you could come to Canada, and we're waiting for that to happen.

But my point that I want to make, I'm an unabashed meat eater.

So I am I am in no way vegan vegetarian.

However, when I go to Janice's house, for trips and I'm obviously having a vegan diet, the food is great.

I would say anything.

Try it.

Just try it.

If you're a meat eater, just try it because you will find it's a it's easy to transition slowly, but over time you can transition.

So, just in case anybody is out there, that sort of thinking, how would I do this?

Because I don't, you know, I don't like the food.

There's lots of great recipes.

Janice has got all kinds of them.

So I just wanted to phone in and say that.

And, I'm the mule for Canada.

I'm the one who sneaks it across the border.

Don't tell anybody.

And your listeners I'm not going to get shot.

And not not for long.

Not for long, Tony.

We're all going to be the same country.

We're all going to be great anyway.

He first.

Yes.

I love the show.

And, you know, I love you guys.

I'm going to thank you off the line now, what a beautiful phone call here Tony in Toronto.

And.

No, that's nice.

And when when he visits, for example, how do you do you think differently about preparing meals for non-vegans versus for vegans?

Right.

So I actually keep the exact same menu for whoever's coming to my house.

But what I'm doing, what we are doing with punnet cheese, is punnet cheese is the ingredient to unlock Italian plant based cooking.

For example.

He was over just this past weekend because it was my son's birthday and I made hearty tortellini soup, you know, made of fresh tomatoes and broth and vegetables and, you know, Italian sausage.

It was plant based.

you know, I make, for breakfast bacon and eggs, but it's plant based.

garlic bread.

So we are actually starting to do a lot of cases for, pot of cheese, like social media, where I'm going to start cooking in my kitchen and show and just bring the community into my kitchen so they can see what I'm cooking for my family.

Without missing out on your comfort foods, you know, like warm, hearty, foods that fill you up, that remind you of, you know, something grandma used to make, you know, we're not I'm not going to be serving, you know, dishes with lots of kale in it or stuff like that.

I mean, it's all healthy, good stuff.

But this is for comfort, kale.

Just kidding.

Yeah.

It's delicious.

I'm just trying to remove the stereotype of plant based eating.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, I don't know.

I think it's a great idea.

let me grab a phone call from Audrey in Fairport who's been waiting.

Hey, Audrey.

Go ahead.

Hi.

How are you?

I've been be vegan 20 years this April.

I want cold turkey.

After watching the documentary Peaceable Kingdom, I have not looked back.

It's been an easy ride, and it seems to be getting easier with all the products that are out there.

I do wish there was more.

All vegan restaurants.

It makes life easier for me because when I go to a restaurant and my husband's also vegan, Will will tell the waitress or waiter that we're vegan and you know, we don't want.

And they seem to understand, but sometimes we explain it that, you know, we don't want any meat, dairy, eggs, honey, anything from an animal.

And then sometimes we'll bring a soup and I'll see a speck of something in it, and it looks like chicken.

I'll say, is this chicken broth?

Or like, yeah, but there's no meat in it.

And I'm like, well, you know, it's still from a chicken and we're not eating it.

So I wish restaurants either there was more vegan restaurants or at the restaurants on the menu.

They clearly labeled what was vegan.

I hate having to be that person to be like, you know, I can't eat this, this or this.

And, you know, is this really vegan?

And and sometimes be given cheese and things and sending things back under.

It's a fair comment.

Certainly.

and I think to the point that our guests have been making this hour, it's a very different scene in Rochester than it was ten years ago, and certainly from 20 years ago, ten, 20 years ago.

Those were called veto items.

Like you don't want a whole group who's got one vegan to veto a restaurant, so, well, we'll throw something on there and it's going to be kind of an afterthought.

That's mostly not the case.

But your point, I hope restaurant tours are listening and they understand the consistency matters and the details matter.

So to that point we're going to take Audrey's call.

We're going to pivot it to all right, what's the challenge?

What are you going to do that's going to convert the skeptic here?

Ryan Jennings.

What's a sweet pea dish that you go, I don't care that this vegan this is delicious.

You're going to love this.

And you're probably not going to believe it's plant based.

All of them.

Oh, you want to be a good pick between my kids?

Yes.

No.

But you know what?

First of all, everybody's got a favorite kid.

I'll talk.

I've only.

I'm kidding.

I have one kid.

I'm also kidding.

Well, I named Sweet Pea after my kids, so you know that that goes.

But, you know, I don't want to, like, not answer your question.

So I'll give you a few examples.

Yeah.

Please do.

The, we started the menu development process.

It's we be with approachable items that, you know, you could kind of switch out for things that you already used to lasagna, burgers, enchiladas, things like that.

But what we discovered early on, and I innately knew this, was that the variety was the key to sustainability and really switching over.

So, you know, I took my background as, you know, as a chef and then applied this sort of like whole food plant based ethos to all sorts of different world cuisines, different in a regional cuisines within the states, and just tried to keep going and keep going.

So we have, you know, over 250 different recipes that we've developed over the past six years.

And, you know, these are things like, you know, dandan noodles.

So like the Sichuan dish or cauliflower tikka masala was just a food link earlier this week with the, wonderful group of fellows in that program there.

And I showed them all how to make a cauliflower tikka masala.

And, you know, not a single one of them was vegan.

Every single one of them enjoyed it and really liked it.

And I got to talk to them for quite a while.

And, you know, you heard from almost every single one, like there's this person in my family who's got, heart disease or I've lost somebody or, you know, my bloodwork came back last week and it was really strange.

And I, you know, I'm not sure what to do about it.

And I don't want to go on, on these drugs.

And then, like, I was like, well, you could eat that every day and you'd be in a lot better shape.

And everybody kind of like, took that.

And then you know, they told me afterward that, you know, everybody really enjoyed it.

So, you know, having that different variety, everybody's got different tastes.

You know, we do you Brad spoke about customer discovery and all those sorts of things.

We do surveys and without fail, every single one of those surveys.

What's your favorite dish?

What's your least favorite dish?

Favorite dish?

Lasagna.

Best I've ever had.

My least favorite dish?

Lasagna.

Terrible.

But I love the dandan noodles.

And then somebody like, oh yeah, can't what?

Why is that tingling feeling on my tongue?

It's from the Sichuan peppercorns.

But, you know, everybody's got their own taste.

And that's why I just having a pretty casting a wide net and having all sorts of fun, delicious stuff for people to try.

So there's there's the sweet pea answer now, Janessa is going to start doing more cooking at home on social, as you said, give me one dish that you're excited to show people.

fettuccine Alfredo, creamy dish, creamy.

So hearty comfort food.

And it's extremely simple punnet cheese.

you know our our credo is it's not what we use, it's what we don't.

So everything is we have we're made of five ingredients.

All of them you can pronounce.

You can get them all in your cupboard.

The fettuccine Alfredo dish is pasta, water, butter, fettuccine, a cheese.

that is all.

And it can feed the whole family and and one serving of pint of cheese.

There's two grams of protein and nine essential vitamins and minerals.

So it's a full B vitamin complex as well because you nutritional yeast.

So you are getting your Italian comfort food and getting all of your nutrients as well.

All right.

Let me rip through as many emails as I can before the end of the hour.

Peter says the Fair Trade coffee movement at one point had the same issue with absolutist first Incrementalist.

20 years later, consumers are more aware because of the firebrands, but more receptive because of the small steps toward a common goal.

I appreciate the openness of your guests to approach veganism the same way, especially as an avid but open minded omnivore.

Very good.

Thank you.

Peter.

Jillian, said that had a comment about disposables and says I wanted to try Sweet Pea for years, but can't get past the whole disposables issues.

Anything we can do about that?

Well, we did something about that.

it was something that we also had a big problem with.

And when we launched Sweet Pea back in 2019, we launched with compostable containers.

and we were working with a composting partner, at that time, community composting.

Now we work with Impact Earth Organics.

and we actually wanted to take back those compostable containers from our, customers and get them to a dedicated composting facility, because, of course, that compostable container is going to break down much better than plastic at the landfill, but it needs to go to a dedicated composting facility to really turn it over quickly and see the environmental impact.

There.

Nobody took advantage of that, and the packaging at that time was such that we were having spoilage and spillage.

People didn't want it, so we did switch to, snap packaging.

But now we're back to compostable.

You're back to compostable?

Yes we are.

All right, Jillian, there's your answer.

Back to compostable once again.

Fine.

Sweet pea.

Where?

Sweet pea plant based.com.

Find a cheese aware cheese a.com or at Whole Foods.

Okay.

And, there's there's a Ryan Steinberg.

Yes.

Who wanted us to know that available red bird market in Fairport, I think, Sweet Pea is also available there as well.

We just launched that.

We've got a whole group of people telling us, and I want to thank all of our guests for being here.

Hey, Brad, come back with with more of, the people that you advise in the future.

This is a lot of fun.

Thanks for making time.

Sure.

Thank you.

And it's great to have Ryan Jennings with sweet pea plant based kitchen.

Janessa Steinberg punches.

A good luck to both of you.

Thank you very much.

Thank you for having us and listeners.

Thanks for listening or watching.

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