From WXXI news this is Connections.

I'm Evan Dawson.

Our connection this hour will be made on Thursday night when the Buffalo Bills host their first regular season game at the new stadium.

Five years ago, Terry and Kim Pegula projected a $1.4 billion price tag.

The actual final cost came in at about $2.2 billion.

NFL commissioner Roger Goodell said back in 2014 that the bills would need a new stadium, or they would likely move to another city.

Well, they're here to stay, at least until someone decides they need another new stadium.

The bills, of course, are going to win the Super Bowl in their first year in the new digs, and this is going to be a lot of fun.

Now, a recent report found that the new Bill Stadium is the single most expensive experience in the entire NFL for a family of four.

More expensive than seeing a game at SoFi in Los Angeles or Vegas or Miami or New England or New York City.

Pardon me.

New Jersey, a family of four, would average, spending roughly $2,200 for the experience at the bills Stadium, including tickets, parking, food, two beers, two soft drinks.

A family of four could enjoy a movie and popcorn and drinks at the Little theater for $86.

That means you could take your family of 4 to 1 bills game, or 25 movies at the little.

Or if you decided that instead of taking your family of four to a bills game this season, you'd use that money to become a sustaining member at $10 a month.

You could be a member for the next 18 years by the time your membership expired.

The host of the show would be a sentient swarm of nanobots.

By the way, the cheapest NFL stadium experience for a family of four is $823 in Cleveland, where they should be paying the fans to attend to watch that team.

And so after 600 million state tax dollars, along with significant other government support, many bills fans feel like they can only watch on television.

But here's the problem for Thursday night you have to have Amazon Prime Video to watch at home.

That's another fee you got to sign up for if you haven't already.

Now, I am not here to rain on anyone's Super Bowl Dreams parade.

I would love to see the bills host hoist the Lombardi Trophy.

And I know they're going to.

And spending.

Hey, whatever you're spending to go see the bills, if that makes sense to you.

And that's in your budget.

That's absolutely great.

Everyone has their own priorities.

I have a lot of family members in Jamestown, in Buffalo who have been waiting for the stadium to open.

And yeah, they saved.

They're going to be there.

I want to discuss what the fans think two days before they open this thing up.

And we're going to have a lot of fun talking bills this hour with our old friend Scott Pitoniak, bestselling author, nationally honored journalist, long time sportswriter.

Welcome back to the program, sir.

Thank you for having me, Evan.

Nice to see you.

And let's welcome, three other bills fans who are season ticket holders.

Jordan Carpenter's the bills fan and the season ticket holder.

Hi, Jordan.

Welcome to the program.

Thanks for having me.

Nick Martin, a bills fan and a season ticket holder.

Hello, Nick.

How's it going?

Very good.

And Steve Royer, a bills fan and a field club member.

Steve, welcome to you.

Thanks for being here.

Thank you.

Good to be here.

So I'm going to start with the season ticket holders.

Then we'll get Scott's take here.

Are we being too hard on the bills when we talk about the cost to attend here?

Is it tough?

Is it worth it?

Jordan, you're you're ready for Thursday night.

How are you feeling about.

I'm thrilled.

I'm excited.

I mean, when I signed up for tickets five years ago, the new stadium was kind of one of the reasons I signed up, because I wanted to get my foot in the door.

Is it cheap?

No, but can I afford it?

Yes, and I've already been twice.

We went to the practice.

We went to the spring training.

It's just a fantastic facility and the upgrade that needed to happen.

Nick Martin, same question.

How are you feeling?

Excited?

The price is definitely not favorable, but such is life.

I guess.

Okay.

Life can be unfair.

I'm with you there.

Steve Royer, how are you feeling?

I feel good.

You know, I love that.

We're into a new stadium, new environment and such.

But the same old people, you know, that kind of thing where you have your friends and family members still there?

The.

The price is very high.

Just like everything else.

I mean, I don't think there's one thing that's gone down in price.

So I did expect a little increase, so to speak, but it is a sticker shock.

But, you have to know your budgets and go forward with it.

And as they always say, YOLO, you only live one.

Steve, have you been in the stadium for pre-season or any other events so far?

Yeah, I went to, the Steeler game.

That was our first time, chance to get in there.

We were very anxious to get in, earlier than that with the practice.

And then the first preseason game.

But other family events, superseded.

So, yeah, it was great.

We, you know, we walked in, everything felt so brand new.

It smelled brand new.

Like a brand new car, so to speak.

So it was good to see, how easy was to get in there with the security line?

Being a field club, the food was amazing.

And home I got the the best, you know, roast beef we've had.

We had they had sushi there.

I mean, I've never been to a bills game, and there's sushi at the event.

Then just walking around was so easy.

The concourse is so wide.

But, yeah, everything about it was great.

It's, everybody was in a great mood.

Also, I've never seen a broken table in a stadium concourse before.

That's really cool.

And, you know, so, again, the overall experience was great.

It really was.

Nick, have you been in there yet?

Yes, I was there for the Panthers game.

Okay.

How was how did it go?

I guess I wasn't as lucky as these guys having, like, the the, fancy seats.

But it was it.

It's very nice.

The the new concourse, as Steve mentioned, is definitely a, a welcome.

Improvement over the kind of compactness at the roof.

So.

Yeah.

Okay.

It was it was a very good experience.

The food was, not quite what I expected compared to what I've seen, but it was still good.

I mean, are you getting sushi at a football game?

I would if I could, but I did not see.

I don't know, I mean, like, like, three way drive thrus are probably not where I'd get sushi like a foot.

An NFL football game?

Yeah, maybe, I guess so.

I mean, I think dining has improved in pro sports venues, that's for sure.

Jordan, have you been inside?

I have twice.

Yep.

Got the first practice we went to the first practice.

We went to the Panthers.

Preseason.

First impressions was just great.

You know, I mean, like, like Steve said, it's just very fancy.

Everything looks so new.

You can tell they're still kind of working on it and places, but, you know, there were TVs all over the concourse.

And, you know, we went right to our seats, which for us was an upgrade because I sat on a cold metal bench for many, many years.

Now I have this nice padded, wider seat, you know, that people can actually get by you.

But we wandered around.

We went up to the top level.

We went, but walked all around the concourse.

The fact that you can see the field from from the concourse, wherever you are, it's just huge.

It just feels so much more open and not like a concrete dungeon.

Like the tunnels were at the old stadium.

Well, Scott Pitoniak back here.

What are you most curious about?

I mean, a lot has been made about obstructed views, of which I don't think there's many, but there are some.

And I understand fans frustration there a lot have been made of the price tag.

I mean, what's on your mind as the bills get ready to open this thing?

Well, I understand the excitement.

You know, I've been to a couple of different stadium openings, including here.

When the then frontier field was opened, I was at the new Yankee Stadium, when that opened.

So I understand, these these folks and everybody else who's associated with the bills and files, the bills and so forth to be excited.

This is something very new.

It's a for many, it's a once in a lifetime experience.

You know, there's a think think about the 60,000 plus.

People are going to be there.

How many were there?

You know, at Rich then?

Rich Stadium when it opened in 73.

I go back I actually went to games at the rock pile as well.

So this will be the third stadium in Bill's history that I've had a chance to go to.

So I understand the excitement, believe me.

And and I get all the things about concourses in particular.

It was it got really so compressed in the old place.

I mean, you're down there, you know, if you were going to go to the bathroom, you're talking like this is going to be like a, you know, a 20 minute proposition to get through the lines or to get the concessions or whatever.

So this has all the modern amenities that are kind of required, I guess, quote unquote, in a new stadium and so forth.

So I understand, you know, this is a kind of a once in a lifetime thing.

There's a lot of excitement.

You have a really good team that adds to the whole thing.

You've got the marquee player, I think, in the NFL and Josh Allen.

So I get all the excitement, I really do.

Yeah.

Can you imagine if you had a Cleveland Browns roster trying to open the stadium here?

Yeah, yeah.

We want to get a like 42 quarterbacks since they came back into the league.

Don't even talk to anybody who's a Clevelander.

It's a it's an ongoing embarrassment.

But we're here talking about the bills who, I do think have a great shot at and trophy.

And I want to take a phone call from a listener who wants to kind of talk about, how he sees some of the questions and some of the money and, and some of the possible, politics in play here.

So let me grab Jim in Rochester first.

Hey, Jim, go ahead.

Oh, yes.

I'll skip to the point, but, I thought, well, I'm kind of in just on the football, but that's not the thing.

When the governor donated all of that money to the NFL, her husband took the highly lucrative position at Delaware North shortly thereafter.

And they're in charge of all concessions for that stadium.

He was a federal prosecutor, like a D.A.

out of the western New York district in Buffalo, where people normally don't live.

But the timing's just kind of sketchy because, you know, she gave them the money and then all of a sudden, her husband's on the board now, and that's, it's just very suspicious to me.

And, you know, it's kind of dystopian, like, like tough.

Just careful.

You can't, like, reach out to people and, you know, it's like, give any kind of explanation.

So I just, I find all this, like, absurd and, like, kind of just a scam for taxpayers.

And that's the point.

I was trying to make.

Well, I appreciate that.

Let's talk to all of our guests about that.

And let me start with Scott.

Scott and I've talked on this program in the past about the way that billionaire owners have a lot of leverage to hold communities kind of hostage in this way.

Right?

Yeah.

I don't like it.

I think one of the things, one of the points we should make, if I'm not mistaken, Delaware North no longer has the concessions for the stadium.

I believe that's legends, which is, this huge, hospitality company that's owned by Jerry Jones.

We can talk about if you want to talk about like that, you know what's going on here.

Conflicts of interest.

And Hal Steinbrenner.

There are two major owners of that.

So I don't think that, that's the case anymore, whether, you know, Delaware North is anywhere involved with this, but but yeah, I have I have problems, I guess here is, you know, you get to a point, really, the politicians, they can make a decision that you don't want the team anymore because that's what's going to happen.

They're going to move.

I again, I don't agree with it.

I despise this, that you have an industry now that is probably close to $20 billion a year in the NFL.

Build your own stadiums with with your own money and so forth, and help out communities that are important to your league, like a Buffalo, New York.

That's a second smallest market and so forth.

So yeah, I have I have a real issue, with taxpayer money going, you know, corporate welfare to billionaires.

But, you know, you have to make a decision.

Do you not want to have a team anymore?

Yeah.

And that really became kind of the the dilemma.

So let's ask the, the season ticket holders who are with us, Jordan Carpenter, you know, you saw that debate play out.

Where were you when the debate was on you?

Should the state spend $600 million?

Should there be county spending?

Should there be?

Look, I mean, how did you feel about it?

Well, I mean, the optics are great, but you see it happening in other places as well.

So we're not the only for sure.

Yeah.

No football community to see public money coming in.

Yeah.

And at the end of the day, it means the bills stay for 30 years.

So as a fan, that's the you know, that was my biggest priority.

And we pay taxes for a lot of things that go downstate to things that don't matter to us.

So it's just a part of living in a state.

And, you know, they decide where the money goes.

Nick Martin, how did you feel about it?

I'm glad I don't live in Erie County.

I think the fact that there are people out there that aren't bills fans, and especially they're living in Western New York that are getting bridled with even more of the tax burden is, it's rough.

But you should have been a bills fan, I guess.

What, Steve Royer, how did you feel about it?

Well, I, I personally don't think I mean, if you're a multi-billionaire and such and, and if you're a football fan, as an owner of that, I don't think any taxpayer dollars should have been put towards this.

Unfortunately, we do live in a world where any kind of deal like this that's going to go down in the end will end up being multi funded, different agencies and such.

There sometimes will be conflicts of interest because you know who you know and all that stuff helps and that's what happens.

So but in my opinion should have been totally funded by the owner and gone from there.

Yeah, I hear you there, Steve.

And I also I also hear Scott's point that, it would take a coordinated effort across markets to say no tax dollars for a stadium.

And the second the Pegula say, okay, Western New York decided no tax dollars, the state decided no tax dollars.

What do we got?

Let's see who else is out there.

Where could we go?

There would have been 6 or 8 other market to probably would have made the offer, wouldn't they?

Yeah.

The team's gone.

I mean I mean and again, I, I don't like the fact that, you know, state taxpayer money and county taxpayer money is going to it.

And and I'm, you know, again, you know, Terry and Kim Pegula bought this team for $1.4 billion, okay.

From you know what, when the Ralph Wilson state put the the team up for sale, and, I give them all sorts of credit, they, you know, that was a commitment to keep the team here.

That's great and so forth.

But, you know, now the the valuation depending on who you believe, the, the average NFL franchise is like $10 billion.

Now the valuation.

So that was a pretty good investment.

Oh yeah.

You know, now admittedly you don't get that money until you sell the team of course.

But yeah, I have a I have a real problem with this.

And this is a, you know, this is a the most successful, sports, industry in the world.

The NFL is and it just, I mean, they just print money, now and so forth, and so, Yeah.

Why can't an industry like that, you know, they have a fund, they have a little fund that pays for partial of stadium rebuilt, but pay for the whole thing.

Come on.

The money is there.

Yeah.

So let's listen to some of what Governor Hochul had to say.

Talking to reporters.

I think our Brian Sharp sent us this piece of sound here.

This is in response to a question about the fact that you had $600 million in state tax dollars go to the stadium, and you still have a lot of the blue collar workers in that market who cannot afford to go.

Let's listen to what the governor says.

Well, we we don't set the price.

My job was to make sure that they remain the Buffalo Bills, that they did not leave the state and that required me to step up with the state resources.

When I first became governor at a time, there was a great fall in ability for this region.

And if you listen to Terry Pegula during the ribbon cutting back in July, he says, I don't know that we'd be if it wasn't for Kathy Hochul, because I knew that there was a lot of pressure to build a new stadium.

They weren't getting the hearing that they needed out of my predecessors administration, and I had to step in and make this happen.

So I think overall weather bills are there and fans are there in person or watching at home or watching in the local bar.

They're happy that they're part of the New York family, and it's the Buffalo Bills.

So Scott Pitoniak, back as a journalist, let me tell you what I would like to ask the governor, and I should mention that we're going to have a lot of interviews with candidates for office.

The governor is up for reelection this year.

Her team has not responded to our request to come on this program.

She has never come on this program.

She's not a big fan of sitting down for extended conversations like this.

I wish you were.

She's not, her opponent, Bruce Blakeman, is coming on this program, but the governor has not responded.

So I'm going to probably have a chance to ask this, but what I would like to ask is, okay, let's grant that you really we're kind of over a barrel here.

And the team could have truly could have moved and that no one is disputing that.

Why could you not use any leverage to tell the pakula's, hey, listen, you're going to get this stadium and the state's going to help and you're going to get local help.

But here's the limit.

Our our market will not support tickets and game gameday expenses over X. We're not going to be the single most expensive stadium in the league.

We always have to be in the bottom half and this stuff is very well studied.

The bottom is $820 to take a family of four to a game that's in Cleveland.

The number one, the top most expensive is Buffalo 2200.

Why could they not have said to the Bengals, we are going to push you on this and you're going to make a commitment to us.

Yeah.

No, I think it's a great point.

You and I have discussed this on this very show several times when this whole thing was unfolding.

You know, I told people like, it's not just going to be the personal seat licenses, which I abhor.

That whole idea, you know, which people had to pay, you know, gobs of money for the right just to buy the ticket, the season ticket and so forth.

I told them the sticker shock was also going to be and we're seeing it, you know, price of concessions, parking, souvenirs, you name it, they're through the roof.

I mean, not the increases that you've seen in those prices.

It isn't like they held the price on the food and so forth.

And I would have liked to have seen some sort of commitment like that.

The one thing I, you know, they did get, and thank goodness they got, they built in a clause there that we are not paying for cost overruns, which inevitably happen with construction projects.

That's right.

And I think, you know, you were talking 2.2 billion.

Yeah.

Well that's what seven, 8 or 7, 800 million over the, over the first project.

Right.

So and the taxpayers in some places would pay for that, not in other states and stuff that we're trying to lower the bills then we're going to pay for the stadium the entire bill.

Yeah.

You know, so so it's a give and take.

I don't again, I don't like it.

But what are you going to do if you really want to keep this team here and you see the it as a part of your, you know, your social being here, sadly, this is the price you got to pay in today's world.

Jordan Carpenter, do you think any of the powers that be could have worked harder to make this a more affordable experience for bills fans?

Probably.

I mean, the team could have set the prices a little lower.

But at the same time, like like I know that study, you keep referencing the, the one that says we're the number one that is based on resale values of tickets.

So, I mean, you know, the season ticket, face value prices are certainly higher, but I don't know if they're the highest in the, you know, of, of, of any team.

But because of supply and demand, you know, the tickets are, are on the, on the, you know, black market on the market or just going for that.

People are asking for too much.

I don't know if they're going to sell for that much, but people are asking astronomical prices right now hoping to cash in.

Yeah, there is there is no secondary market for Browns tickets.

That is a fair point.

So yeah.

Nick Martin, could anything more have been done, you think, to make this a more affordable experience for the fans?

I mean, I guess the first thought I have is I believe it was Atlanta.

They added something where it was like hot tubs or two bucks and soft drinks are, I don't know, three bucks or whatever.

And it was they put an emphasis on keeping the prices of like the basic items low.

And I think what I remember hearing was that the volume that they sold, like doubled or tripled because people were able to afford it.

Yeah.

Whether it's some of the food items kind of cresting $20 or beers, like, I get it, you got to make money.

But in some point I think it pays off to give back a little bit.

And.

There's definitely ways that they could have helped out and soften the blow of the, the, the tickets.

But.

It's a business after all, I guess.

Yeah.

It's true.

Steve Royer, what do you think?

Oh, I mean, sometimes we're we are the root of our own evil.

I mean, we're the consumer.

And, Hey, I'm the product out there.

The Buffalo Bills, Super Bowl contenders, Josh Allen.

So we're going to pay more than what we want, obviously, because we want to see that and experience that.

I kind of agree with Nick, though, that maybe they can have like dollar hotdogs for a game or something like that.

You know, each game to a special like that.

For us personally, my wife and I, when we go, you know, we'll bring like, hats or beers, you know, those big ones, you see, and we can buy them at the local grocery store for much cheaper.

So we'll drink those and pre tailgate and everything.

And sometimes we don't even drink an alcoholic drink in the game.

Yeah.

You know just be responsible as well because we have to drive back to Rochester.

So that way you know we we drink before the game.

You know we enjoy some food and stuff, maybe in the game but not spend that much.

So and that is because the prices are just way too high, you know.

So paying $20 or 20, whatever it is for, 16 ounce beer is just not to my opinion.

So, but there is something, you know, the bills, like I said, a lot of question is what they leave Western New York.

I, I honestly don't think they would have left.

I mean, they've been here since the Rock Bible days, since the 60s, you know.

So but is that is the chance you take?

I want to believe it, but having been from Cleveland and seeing this in the 90s, I mean, a lot of people thought, you know, art model is never going to do this.

Right?

And then he did it.

Scott.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I was just going to say that's the example.

I mean, I can go way back in history and and the example of Brooklyn Dodgers is another one classic one where just like in Cleveland, you rip the heart and soul, you know, out of the sporting community there.

So there's no question in my mind they would have to go, you know, they I mean, if somebody, you know, in San Antonio or whatever is going to, you know, all the politicians and everybody are going to say, like here, we're going to build a stadium and give it to you.

We'll do what what else do you want?

And we'll, you know, we'll build you a campus there, you know, for practice facilities.

What do you want?

We'll do it.

Yeah.

I mean, that's the reality.

You know, it's stupid, you know, but it's the reality.

It is real.

Briefly, a couple things here before we're going to turn it over to more listener feedback in our second half hour.

We're talking Bill Stadium, obviously game one at home Thursday night.

And, Bill's on their way to a Lombardi Trophy this year.

It's going to be a lot of fun in the new stadium.

We are talking to three season ticket holders.

We're talking a long time journalist and writer, Scott Pitoniak, and if you want to weigh in at 844295, talk toll free, 8442958255263 WXXI for call from Rochester.

2639994.

Email the program Connections at I thought I should remember I think Rob, our engineer told me like, stop saying the bills are going to win.

You're you say this every year Megan Mac saying the same thing.

Okay, here it is.

Those are going 500.

They don't even make the playoffs.

And the Jets win the division.

I can't even say it with a straight face, but I'll try.

Actually in Penfield.

Just wanted to know if the guests are willing to share how much they spent to get their season tickets.

That's up to them.

Jordan Carpenter, I'll start with you.

You want to answer that one for me?

Actually, sure, sure.

Okay.

Since my dog stopped barking here, let's see, our selves.

So I'm in the corner end zone.

I'm in what's called the charge bar.

So we did pay a little bit more because it's considered premium seating, but our our tickets were 4000 for each.

And the ticket prices are almost double than what we were paying last year.

Wow.

So, so tickets last year were 161.

And the tickets are 314 this year.

All right.

So hold on.

I'm just trying to do a little math here.

So 4000 for each PSL right.

Correct.

And you got two.

We got two.

So that's eight okay.

And then $314 per ticket per game per game.

So that's $628 per game times.

They have 9 or 8 home games this year I think is at eight this year or eight.

Yeah eight.

Eight of them I was promised there would be no math.

But the bottom line is you're spending, you know, it looks like around five K, so around $13,000 total for the two of you to go this year.

So for years I was paying for two myself.

Now with the these increased prices, my brother in law will be paying for his share going for.

So besides the PSL, it's almost the same amount per year for me.

But the PSL was the biggest hit.

Okay, I got you there.

Same question.

Nick Martin.

So I don't know how you got for grand PSL.

I'm, I have four seats in the At 114, which is like Bill sideline in the corner.

Ours are six grand.

And then the similarly the ticket per game costs about doubled from last year to about 250 bucks per seat per game, and it's 6000 per seat in the PSL.

Yes.

Okay.

24,000 before.

Yeah.

Before you get to the game, get tickets for 250.

So it's $1,000 a game that's about 32 K for four seats okay Steve Roy Steve Roy our go ahead.

All right.

Here's a little sticker shock.

So last year I won Steve I'm already sticker shock from the last two.

You've I've already been shocked.

But go ahead.

You've got the boot.

Yeah.

So so last year we, we had 50 yard line right below the.

And I also say I was always way even the gymnast and everybody and yelling at Joe Brady.

But so this year comparable seats were field club level.

So that gives us free food all day and free nonalcoholic drinks all games.

So our sales were 15,000 for each and two tickets.

So that was 30,000.

The one thing that did sell us on there is that we could amortize that over a year and a half without paying interest.

So we currently are still paying those without interest.

So that kind of sold us on that.

Also the free cheeseburgers.

And I really actually have like ten cheeseburgers a game and feel good about it.

The, the ticket price for the season tickets did double.

There were like 550 or something.

Percy, per game.

So it is very pricey for sure.

550 per game.

Yeah, yeah.

But but but yeah, we did resell one of the games and we got $2,000 for each seat because we can't go to the, one game because we're on vacation.

So.

And I'd about that $2,000 per seat.

Yes.

Someone someone paid us over four grand for the two seats for that one game.

For the.

I would say so.

Would you like to run my finances?

I mean, that is unbelievable.

The support literally around these tickets are astronomical.

It's crazy.

I feel bad for, you know, the local people in Buffalo that just can't afford it at times.

And I also I really do.

Well yeah.

Go ahead Scott.

Yeah.

No.

And that's one of my concerns.

Like I saw this happen in Cleveland.

I saw this happen with the Yankees at Yankee Stadium because the prices just jumped so astronomically that and this is what bothered me.

And I talked about this before with you, Evan is like these generations.

I know so many bills fans like, this is like the fourth or fifth generation, you know, families, you know, watching games.

They can't do it.

They can't afford it.

No.

As much as they want to understand that.

Yeah, as much as they want to.

And I looked you know, I looked at the ticket prices and they've gone down a little bit for this game.

But it's still $400 if you want to sit nosebleed to buy it on the secondary market right now, you know, you know, to this game itself.

So and what happens what I saw in Cleveland, what I saw in Yankee Stadium is that it was kind of a different crowd, and kind of a different atmosphere.

Now, this new stadium is built to retain the noise and so forth.

So it's going to probably be louder than the old place.

But there was just something different, you know, the dog pound was really lost when, when Cleveland, when they went to the new play, they tried to reconstruct.

Yeah.

It was, it was so, so.

And by the way, Scott, before this program, the last dog pound game I went to was in 1994.

It's where I got someone broke my face.

I was 15 years old, sitting in the dog pound, and I asked my friend who I went to the game with.

I said, what were we paying back then?

He said, 17 bucks a ticket.

So in today's dollars, $17 is $38.

So $38 is what we spent.

And at 15 years old, I could drink for free because there was a shirtless, very overweight, very intoxicated man next to us after offering us whiskey from a flask.

I didn't take any, but he was hammered enough that, on a big pass down the field from Vinnie Testa Verde to Derek Alexander to take you back in the day.

Then Alexander fumbles at the end of the play.

We lose the ball.

Our friend Bill I think was his name.

He didn't see that.

He tried to give me a high five, missed my hand, hit my face and broke my zygomatic arch.

So that was the last time I went to a Browns game.

So they should be paying Browns fans to go.

I mean, I think it's actually that painful to go watch the team now.

It's pretty much the same as having your face broken, watching Deshaun Watson and the crew there.

It's a very different story for the bills.

They're an amazing team and a very weak AFC.

And this is it I going to take one more quick phone call.

And then we'll take a break.

And we'll just keep it rolling with fan feedback as we get ready for game one at home.

This is hell and southern Livingston County.

Hey how go ahead.

Thank you.

Can you hear me?

I can hear you.

Okay, great.

Well, all this discussion is about, affordability, especially for high end sports.

And my question is related to sustainability.

That is about the same time these decisions were made about the new stadium, New York past the revolutionary advance called the Climate Leadership and Community Protection Act.

And since then, the governor's more or less dropped that.

But my suggestions then and now are trying to electrify transportation and all the other amenities associated with the stadium, promoting electric cars, busses, or even trying to have an electric train nearby.

And that way, we might be able to sustain for our grandchildren sports, rather than just talk about, escalating, affordability.

So thank you for taking my call.

And if you have any ideas, I'd love to hear them.

Well, hell, look, first of all, I mean, I, I appreciate the concern you have, and I appreciate your confusion or frustration that certain things will get prioritized over others.

That is certainly I think a Scott Pitoniak has been saying, whether it's you find it tasteful or distasteful, that is sort of the American political way right now, that there are going to be gaudy sums of money paid for with your tax dollars.

At the same time, when there are other needs that you might find more pressing that don't get the attention.

I would love to talk to the governor about that.

I would I would love to talk to other political leaders and and a lot come on the show and maybe someday the governor will.

But I don't have a good answer beyond that.

I mean, I understand why to you there is this disconnection and but I don't I don't think there's a there's an easy answer, Scott.

The governor probably saw this as a priority.

The state saw this as a bigger priority than its other issues, including climate protection goals, etc.. Yeah.

I mean, if we had a if we had a Republican or a Republican governor was not going to allow this team to leave either.

I mean, I just don't see that.

I mean, I would be, you know, when he appears on here.

Blake.

Milkman.

Yeah.

Yeah, I, I would put that question him, like, what would you have done in this situation when you could put that much money out.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, and you know, so again, you do you want to be, do you want to be the county executive and the governor of New York who allowed the team to leave?

You know, do you want to be saddled with that?

And, again, I, you know, I, I understand people being upset with it.

I'm upset with taxpayer money that amount going to billionaires and and an an industry again.

And I said it around $20 billion a year in revenues they're making now.

And with I don't know what the valuation the bills I think it, I think it, you know, it's probably climbing with these recent sales that we're seeing of the LA Lakers for $10 billion and so forth.

So.

Oh no, it's pretty remarkable.

I mean, there seems to be no end in sight.

But by the way, just briefly, hey, Jordan Carpenter, Chris was asking the PSL that the price that you pay for that PSL is one time or it's annual at one time, right?

One one time.

Yeah.

So the PSL that you're that you're paying it again on your seats.

It was what was it 4K pursuit for Pur.

Yeah.

But that is not something you've got to pay next year.

If you keep that PSL okay.

Yeah we paid half upfront and we paid the rest off before the season started okay.

So good distinctions.

But but you have to purchase every year a season ticket or else it becomes void.

Is that not correct?

I believe so and you'd have to.

And the club then would take ownership of that PSL.

Right.

The PSL is like the right to buy a season ticket.

Right.

And you've got to pay for that PSL one time and then you've got the right to buy.

You get the right of first refusal, but if you refuse it, that's gone and you can sell anybody at any price.

You want the PSL, the PSL okay.

Yeah, okay.

That'll be a whole different thing.

That's like a PSL exchange.

You know, it's like you, you would have to sell it to somebody and maybe buy a different one to upgrade your seat.

So that's a whole different discussion okay.

Lots of fit in for the end of the hour.

Let's take this very late break.

Come back to your feedback on Connections.

Coming up in our second hour, we're talking to author Brit Bennett, author of the book The Vanishing Half.

It's a special rebroadcast in our series of conversations about some books that have been popular with our listeners.

And Brit Bennett was in Rochester to not only promote this book, but talk about why has become such a phenomenon.

The story of twin sisters, one who grew up to live as a white woman, one living as a black woman, and the powerful story in The Brit Bennett tells Next Hour.

Support for your public radio station comes from our members and from Bob Johnson Auto Group.

Believing an informed public makes for a stronger community.

Proud supporter of Connections with Evan Dawson focused on the news, issues and trends that shape the lives of listeners in the Rochester and Finger Lakes regions.

Bob Johnson Auto group.com.

This is Connections.

I'm Evan Dawson.

We're talking to Jordan Carpenter, Nick Martin, Steve Royer who are bills season ticket holders getting ready for game one on Thursday night and the regular season first home game.

And they're in a regular season at the new stadium.

Scott Pitoniak, of course, a bestselling author and a nationally honored journalist, is with us in studio.

Anthony and Victor on the phone next.

Hey, Anthony, go ahead.

Anthony, are you there?

Anthony and Victor?

I'm.

Well, we lost Anthony.

Okay.

That's right.

There's no license to get a phone line.

You've got it's own.

There's enough open that you can get through here.

Anthony.

You can call back if you like.

There.

I had a comment that I want to read.

I'm going to get Joel's in just a second here.

Had a couple of comments from listeners who are upset that the game is on Amazon, the games on Amazon on Thursday night.

Yes, yes.

So I mean, the first home game for the bills, they have a streaming service as well.

This is the new world, right?

You know, I do find that a little kind of gross.

The Yankees, season opener was on Apple TV.

Hey.

Yeah.

So, so let's say you can't afford your longtime season ticket and you couldn't afford the new stadium, so you're not going.

And if you don't have an Amazon Prime, like, come on.

Yeah, that is to me, that is not a good way to treat your fans.

That's I don't know is that controversial?

Jordan to my Adeline I'm thinking that.

Yes or no?

I mean it's not a bills issue.

It's a league issue.

The you know, the league let these people come in and bid huge money for the broadcast rights.

Yeah.

So yeah, you know, kind of is what it is.

Stop throwing reality into this.

I just want to be like, no, I that's a fair point.

And again, but that leaves me going like, you're telling me Terry Pegula couldn't have said to the league, hey, listen, our first game cannot be on the service.

That's hardest for most people to get or don't have here.

Here's what I would have liked to have seen for their first game, and I'd be interested to hear from from our our guests.

I would have preferred a Sunday afternoon, you know.

Absolutely.

1:00 particular I think about these guys driving back from Rochester.

I mean, what time are you guys going to get home?

I know from covering games when I worked at the DNC and and did bills, columns and so forth.

I mean, after filing all my stories and everything, I get home, it'd be 3 or 4:00 in the morning, you know?

Yeah.

I mean, it's tough.

That's a tough on.

I know we're a regional franchise, so we should think, but I it's the price of being so great and entertaining.

Well, let's ask the guy Steve Royer.

How do you feel about Thursday night for the first time game versus a Sunday afternoon?

I absolutely would prefer a Sunday afternoon.

You know, being the lounge, I haven't even if I live in Buffalo, I would certainly wanted a Sunday afternoon.

Nice and sunny, that kind of thing.

So but unfortunately it's about, you know, ratings.

And the NFL wants to prime time slot there for the opener of a brand new stadium and all the bazaars with it.

So, unfortunately, we gotta make that long drive.

And good thing I have the next day off from work.

How do you feel about it?

Nick Martin.

Similarly, 1 p.m.

games are, I think, King.

It makes it a long night.

Morning.

Getting back at probably two ish, give or take.

Having a yellow, security safety vest in the back of the car helps getting us out of the parking lot.

Shout out Casey.

So that helps a little bit, but, I would prefer it to be the Sunday games where you can drive back in the daylight, but parking further away from the stadium, I think, helps get out of the madness.

And onto the highways a little bit quicker.

But yeah.

Jordan Carpenter, you want to add to that?

Yep.

Same like we don't park in the main lots anymore because getting out of those was atrocious.

So we have a consistent lot on Abbott down the street.

We can we can get out pretty easily.

We're usually home by 132 in the morning, you know, and you just you know that.

So you make it in but I will say this schedule this year is kind of beneficial.

We were talking about it before.

This is really the only night game that you know, but it up against a work day because all the other ones are 1:00 and then late in the year there's like a Saturday night game, which is fine because it's a Saturday night.

So we really only have to deal with one evening up against the work, a work day.

Okay.

Joel writes in to say regarding putting the first game, the first bills home game on Amazon Prime.

He says it's disgusting.

It's honestly a slap in the face to the fans and specifically the taxpayers, many of whom or other, most of whom will never step foot in the stadium nor watch a game there.

And who gets the seat licensing fees?

Who gets the revenue from parking and from concessions.

Most much of this news about cost to taxpayers and fans is eerily similar to how the FIFA World Cup win in the United States, nobody can afford to watch professional sports in person, especially not in this economy.

It's something that engineer Rob Braden and I were talking about recently.

Rob made some really good points about that.

Rob, I think got to go up to see where did you get to go up to Toronto, sir.

You did.

He said he saw a World Cup game in Toronto.

But most people, if you get to go, you're either gifted the tickets or maybe you go to one game like you're not.

You can't afford to go every game.

Now I get our guests.

Now they've budgeted for this.

This is part of their family plan.

The bills are in their financial household budget and I do get that.

But I also get what Joel is saying is, you know, look at all this money that's flowing and look at how price that a lot of people feel and who gets it.

Well, I mean, I assume the team is getting parking fees and I don't know, I think, I think the county is getting quite a bit.

I think that was part of the sticker shock with the parking.

And I believe the concessions to part of the concessions.

And I don't know, there might be something built into the ticket prices as well that they get a certain percentage.

But that was, that was immediately seen by many fans.

I spoke to, like, whoa, wait a minute.

And I believe that was yeah, that was definitely a county tax that was placed on on certain items.

And I think that people like Rob Braden and others are right when they say, look, love the bills.

You know, Rob loves Arsenal.

He loves going to, you know, going to a pub and leading fan clubs.

And there's so much that that is important to the experience of life.

The sports fandom is very important for a lot of people.

It just becomes tough when you look at the top levels of whether it's FIFA or otherwise, and you go, I don't feel good about this.

You know, I don't feel great about supporting this in that way.

Yeah.

I mean, this is that's a show in itself in terms of the affordability of professional sports.

Now.

I mean, I, I, I'm old.

So I can remember, you know, getting a box seat at, you know, Yankee Stadium with my father for, you know, 4 or $5.

Well, now you got to pay the, you know, the sales to even get down near there.

So.

Yeah.

And the whole thing, the streaming thing, we're going to get to a point not too in the not too distant future where you want to watch your team, you're going to pay a season ticket price for the television rights to watch your team, you know?

Well, Charlie rose to say, I lived in San Diego in the 80s and going to the Chargers was easy.

I would drive ten minutes, park in the Sierra mesa neighborhood and walk ten minutes to the stadium, buy a cheap ticket, maybe 15 or 20 bucks, watch the game, be home 20 minutes after that.

The bills is an all day event.

It's expensive.

It's cold.

There are too many hard drinking people.

I'll pass and then he says, Scott, I love your weekly column in the RBG.

It's the first thing I read each week.

Miss you at the paper?

Well thank you, I appreciate that very much.

We all miss the days when there were newspapers.

Yeah.

Huge.

But that's that's from Charlie.

The one thing I will say.

I'll ask.

I'll ask the season ticket holders.

The one thing I don't love as a fan, going to games is sitting in the rain.

But if I'm going to a game and I either want what you're going to get on Thursday night or I love watching Bill's games when it's snowing, I mean, the snow becomes its own event there.

How do you feel about it?

Jordan I love that like it's an open air stadium.

I love that the weather will still be a factor.

In fact, they pulled season ticket holders before the stadium was being commissioned.

What would you rather have a dome or open air?

Everybody resounded.

They wanted open air.

So I'm cool with the weather.

I mean, my seats aren't covered.

They'll dress appropriately as always, but there are, like, warmer areas in the concessions now, we can still stand anywhere and watch the game.

So, you know, weather will be weather.

We just plan accordingly.

Nick Martin, did you want a dome?

Yeah.

I think it's a mixed answer.

Yes or no?

It it definitely make would make getting people to go with you easier who aren't quite as diehard.

Like my wife, for example.

Doesn't like going after October.

So I see the pros and cons of both.

I don't really mind one way or the other, to be honest.

Okay.

What about you, Steve Royer?

I'm going to be the minority on this, but I would have preferred a dome because, one thing, though, that way you could use it year round.

I know Kenny Chesney was just announced to come in the summer, but maybe he could have came in the wintertime, you know, instead, that kind of stuff.

So, but, we purposely chose seats.

They were undercover because as much as I love watching it in the snow and everything, I hate, I hate being in the snow and have my freak feeds my feet.

Freeze.

And I've tried every kind of warming sock, alpaca, whatever you want to call it.

What?

Wool or whatever.

And nothing.

Nothing just works for me.

So, I prefer the whole having a dome.

Things you can use it year round.

And honestly, I think that would help generate revenue for the city of Buffalo in that area.

So I'm definitely in the minority.

I know on that one.

So I'm going to get crushed on that.

Hey, listen, I know there's different opinions.

Were you surprised, Scott Pitoniak, that there wasn't a dome on this one?

No.

Only because I know that they were trending towards I would have preferred a retractable dome in downtown Buffalo.

Yes.

Yeah, that would have been my choice.

And I totally agree that this is going to be limited use.

I mean, you could have had year round usage where the new building where you could have hosted, perhaps you might have if you had enough hotel space, you could have hosted an NCAA final for, you know, if you were really thinking a lot of conventions, you could have brought in, as we saw with Lucas Oil Stadium in Indianapolis, it would have had you know, concerts, you name it, conventions, all sorts of things.

I think it would have, would have benefited.

But, you know, I think overwhelmingly when the fans were polled, they loved the tailgate experience.

And it's I, I've been to a lot of, you know, many of the NFL stadiums and you know, Buffalo along with, I'd say green Bay had kind of a has kind of a collegiate feel to it because you had all the, the lots and all the tailgating going on that would not have been possible downtown.

I understand it would have had to, you know, bus from certain areas and worked around that, you know, so but the, the big problem, you know, we talk about affordability and cost the taxpayers if you want a retractable roof, you know, stadium, you're probably going to tack on another 1 to $1.5 billion.

Yeah, it's not going to happen.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Not going to happen.

I totally understand.

Some folks have been having some fun sending their thoughts on what you can get for, if you're going to take one games worth, you know, $2,200 to take a family of four to a bills game, what you could get, you can get a lot, I guess.

Want to say it again, 25 nights have taken your family of four to the to the little theater for a movie and the best popcorn in the world.

But I get the bills are pretty good draw too, Charles points out.

Not nearly as expensive if you want to go see USA hockey.

They're holding one of their annual warrior tournaments in Utica next week.

Rochester is sending two teams.

Charles was on this program a year ago talking about that, and the warrior programs.

It's awesome.

Veterans on the ice playing hockey.

They're very, very good.

You would not want to mess with them.

And so he's telling people go out to Utica next week.

So, hey, look, there's a lot of choices that you have.

We've been talking to the fans about why they've decided that they're going to be season ticket holders, despite the increased cost.

And maybe we'll just close with this here.

Jordan Carpenter, do you want me to never say again on the air that the bills are winning the Super Bowl?

Because I do think they are.

I think the FCS week, I think if they're ever going to do it, it better be now.

I mean, how are you feeling, Jordan?

I mean, I'm not jinxing anything, but I like to think that Josh is going to get it done at some point.

Got to get at least one here.

Now, I do think by now.

Nick Martin five years ago, if you would have told me the bills had not been in an even in a Super Bowl, Josh Allen, I would have been shocked.

But he's still healthy and there's still runway in front of him.

What do you see, Nick?

Bright futures hopefully take advantage of his health and his age while we can I guess is the way I see it.

And go big or go home you go, Steve Roy or what do you think?

I think this could be their year.

I mean, no one.

There's that that phrase.

No one sells hope like the Buffalo Bills.

But at the same time, I think, the team has had so much change, and change is good.

And, I think this could be the year they do it.

And it's just the competition from there's so much competition in the AFC just even gets to the Super Bowl.

But I think this is their year I really do a fan a fan bills fan listener on YouTube watching on the news YouTube channel says the game is on ABC locally in Buffalo.

So, should be in Rochester.

Should be the whole region, if you have to ask me.

But anyway, Scott.

Antonio, this is it right there.

Doing it this year.

Well, they can yeah.

I mean, the one thing that I'm triggered by that first game, putting up 36 points and the best defense in the NFL was was was pretty good.

I mean, they had some breaks here and there and some breaks.

Yeah.

Josh you're a wounded duck into the chest of a defender with a minute to go.

You got it.

We got away with it.

Maybe these things happen.

But you know, one thing that I noticed, I think it's going to be a very, very entertaining.

And sometimes like you're going to be riding a roller coaster because it seems to me that Joe Brady's attitude is we're just attacking.

We're going to attack you defensively, even though we don't have the personnel defensively, he's going to he's saying it that way.

And I think maybe you know maybe they were a little too conservative under under McDermott not to want to make mistakes and so forth.

And I think maybe they held Josh back a little bit.

And I think he's going to he's just going to go for it and try to get the best he can out of him and let him ride.

Let's go.

You know.

Well, listen, I just want to close the show by saying do good, be good, God bless God.

Bills.

That's what Chris urged me to say.

And that you know what?

That's exactly right.

No, that's that's Julie.

Good job Julie.

Josh Allen's absolutely right.

In Western New York we don't say goodbye.

We say go Bill.

So Scott for Tony at go Bills thank you very very much.

And Jordan Carpenter good meeting you.

Have fun on Thursday night.

Go bills.

Thank you.

Go bills.

Nick Martin thanks for being with us.

Go bills go bills Steve Royer go bills man have fun.

On Thursday.

Go bills.

All right.

Thank you.

More Connections coming up in a moment.

Oh.

This program is a production of WXXI Public Radio.

The views expressed do not necessarily represent those of this station.

Its staff, management, or underwriters.

The broadcast is meant for the private use of our audience.

Any rebroadcast or use in another medium without expressed written consent of WXXI is strictly prohibited.

Connections with Evan Dawson is available as a podcast.

Just click on the Connections link.

At WXXI news.org.