From WXXI news.

This is connections.

I'm Evan Dawson.

Our connection this hour was made nearly three years ago in California on March 10th, 2023.

A remarkable piece of music made its debut on the West Coast.

The piece, called A knee on the neck, is an oratorio in tribute to George Floyd.

It was performed by the Stanford Symphony Orchestra and Stanford Symphonic Chorus, and composed by award winning composer and Rochester native Adolphus Hale stork.

Doctor Hale stork has been outspoken about the role of music in turbulent times, especially when it comes to injustices against African-Americans.

He once said, quote, I can speak on the issues and put them in my work.

These are the tragedies and triumphs of the people who've been beaten up for 400 years.

Does anyone speak for them?

Who writes pieces that speak for the existence of African-Americans in the United States?

I'll take on that job.

End quote.

Doctor Hale stork will be back in his hometown this weekend for a choral concert in his honor.

But first, he's joining us to talk about the role of his work and about art and social change politics, and if music is effective in generating that change.

I'd like to welcome our guests.

On the line with us is Doctor Adolphus Hale, stork, award winning composer.

Welcome to the program, sir.

Good to have you.

Thank you very much.

Good to be here.

And with me in studio is Lee Wright, who is the director of music ministry at Downtown United Presbyterian Church.

Founding artistic director of First Inversion Choral Ensemble.

Director of the Treble Choir at Nazareth University.

Director of two mixed choirs at the University of Rochester.

I think we got it all.

Yeah.

Busy man.

Yeah.

And I know you're looking forward to this weekend.

This is a big deal for Rochester to have Doctor Hill start back, isn't it?

We are so excited.

You know, I've known Doctor Hill Stark's name for a long time.

First, I think I first played an organ work of his back during my undergraduate time.

And, And actually won a won a National Association of Negro Musicians, organ competition with that work.

And, but only recently became more aware of his, vast choral work and have begun programing it in and all my various venues, and then later found out that he was born here in Rochester and thought, oh, wow, this is so, so wonderful.

So the event is on Saturday.

The historic choral festival celebrating Rochester's own Adolphus historic Saturday at 3:30 p.m.

at United Presbyterian Church on Fitzhugh Street.

He's going to work directly with local choirs, and community members are welcome to attend doctor Hill's talks, collaborative work and rehearsal with the choirs from 1232 30 as well.

Is that right?

Yeah.

You know, we actually just changed the schedule back one half hour, so 12 to 2 and the concerts at three instead of 330.

Oh very good.

Thank you for the correction there.

Just recently made that change.

It's a 3:00 concert on Saturday at United Presbyterian Church on Fitzhugh Street.

Doctor Hale talk.

You know, I mean, you're a man of many accomplishments.

Does this have any special meaning for you in Rochester?

This event this weekend?

Well, it's a first.

I was only up there for a musical presentation one time before, with, What was the name of the group?

The gateway.

So, conducted by Michael Morgan and, I this is a first trip back for anything.

Other than that.

I'm glad to be back.

And, you know, Lee was talking about programing more of your work.

I wonder, have you noticed an increase in interest in the performance of of your work in recent years?

Well, as, as, as I've aged because I, I jokingly think, people are saying, well, look, you might not be around much longer.

We better grab a while.

He's here.

So, I'm very thankful.

Yeah.

So let's talk a little bit about.

And we've got, I think we got a couple of clips from the movie.

We don't know what that is about.

We've got a couple of clips from the oratorio that we can listen to in a moment here, but before.

Before we do that, doctor.

Historic.

I want to ask you, in the course of your career, if you view the work that you've created as having, you know, sort of changed, has it become more political, more driven on sort of social commentary, or has always sort of imbued and been imbued in what you've been doing?

Well, yeah.

I remember when I was working on my doctorate at Michigan State that, I wrote a piece called Lambert for the Children of Biafra.

And, I mean, I was of that concerned about, a terrible thing that was happening at that time at that place.

And, so in a way, it was mentioned, and especially if it involves the abuse of children and we're at this time, too, when there's a little bit of more and I think, household level consciousness of some protest work going on simply because of what we've seen in Minneapolis with with ice recently for Springsteen, you know, put a piece out pretty quickly called Streets of Minneapolis.

A couple of other artists I've seen, reworking the, Neil Young's, you know, for that in Ohio became two dead in many Minnesota.

So there is there's a level of commentary going on, and I want to I want to go back to the George Floyd murder and just ask you, before we listen to a couple of clips of what you hoped to accomplish as an artist, as a creator, that, you know, what what could music, what could art say about that, that might impact the social con Well, I'm hoping, that people will react, with the concept of wanting to do better.

We, I think especially in this time that we are living now.

We we are a better nation, I believe.

I s I grew up thinking that then, well, and then some activities or events, say we are.

And, I'm hoping I can make a contribution of that.

That thought, you know, I want to explore that point that you just made because I can't help but feel a little despair when you say that we are a better nation than George Floyd.

We are better nation then, you know, point to anything.

But.

But you kind of added that caveat.

You said, at least I grew up thinking that.

Are you starting to?

Are you starting to waver in that idea?

I am hoping that I stay long enough to see a rebound from the current events.

The things that happen in Minneapolis are really, made me unhappy.

And, I put some of that, happiness on a piece I'm working on right now.

And that, I believe we can do better.

We we're we're I like to think we're a better nation.

I mean, after all, when I grew up, we were we were celebrating the triumph of World War two.

That's so far back I go.

And, that all our guys and gals went over to Europe and straighten that mess out.

And now we seem to be having our own kind of a mess.

President, in my opinion, very similar to, what they had there.

So I, I, I'm hoping that things will get better.

Let's listen to, some of Doctor Hill Stark's work.

And this is from a knee on the neck.

And we'll listen to the first election, then we'll we'll talk about it.

But if you're Ulster, politeness may restrain, the police is just might restrained.

That may protect you.

Oh, it's me you brought it home.

Oh, hey, can you give me till I can get up till half?

Black and blue.

Let's.

Oh, oh.

Oh, no.

Oh.

Oh oh.

Oh.

Those will.

All right, so you're hearing some of the work here, and I want to credit the people who deserve to be credited.

Of course.

Adolphus Hill, start composer.

That's the Stanford Symphony Orchestra and Stanford Symphonic Chorus.

Paul Phillips, conductor there.

Stephen M Santa, who's the course director?

Samantha Williams, the mezzo soprano Alexander Tate, tenor, Wilford Kelly, the baritone there, and boy doctor Hal Storch.

Can you describe a little bit more about this first selection that we just listened to?

Well, Herb Martin wrote a wonderful libretto that he sent to me.

And I asked him, what is what does he want me to set this?

And he said, yes, what I please.

It was within a week of the George Floyd murder.

Where every.

You know, a lot of people were upset by that.

And, I was still an Akabusi.

Her Martin was a great poet from Dayton, Ohio.

And so I started, setting it and he said that it was a reminiscence in a way, of his mother telling him to be very careful going out, in public, and unaware that anything bad can happen and, to declare himself mentally to deal with it.

And that's what they're saying, right at that point in the, the, the piece I wrote.

What do you hear there, Lee?

Gosh, I so at the at the very end, I heard a bit of the feeling of this, of the spiritual.

And I know that, doctor health talk has woven the spiritual in, in much of his work, including this oratorio.

And I also heard it juxtaposed with, you know, the very highest level of composition for symphony orchestra, and soloists that we have, received kind of from European traditions.

And, so I just hear a beautiful blending and calling upon traditions coming together, with hope.

In our second half hour, I'm going to talk more with Lee about art as that this vehicle for commentary and perhaps change, especially at a time like this.

Let's listen to a second selection, if we could, from the on the neck.

And I'm going to read a little bit of some of what you're going to hear.

Lyrically, have you ever seen a knee on a neck child that stops all breathing?

Home, home.

There's a virus going around taking names.

It has taken my neighbor's name and has left my heart in pain.

Let's listen.

30 of us in our knee on under us here.

Have a seen a knee on our neck.

So, would we.

Come on.

0500, this.

Not if it needs picking names.

It has it.

It is name.

And has left my watching year.

Oh, that's from knee on the neck and a knee on the neck is a subject.

It's it's a phrase.

The name of a piece that instantly I have to think, doctor has to carry some risk for the creator of being banned.

You know, I don't know if this is going to get on the Kennedy Center stage.

On if anything's going to end the Kennedy Center stage, but never, you know, you know, but but being perhaps prejudged or stereotyped or being targeted by a government that is actively going after its perceived enemies.

I mean, I wonder if there's any been any blowback for you for, for creating this kind of art.

Oh, no, I have never had any, problem with that at all.

I, you know, I, I think most of my career has been under the, under the, when you go under the radar.

So, I've had no trouble.

Know what?

You know, I heard you scoff a little.

I mentioned the Kennedy Center, which the president announced yesterday, is going to be closed for two years for renovations.

Now.

And that comes, coincidentally or not, after, you know, sort of some half sold shows that were carefully selected by the Trump administration for performance there and a number of artists deciding not to be on stage there.

Would you would you allow a performance on the Kennedy Center stage at this?

No no no no no no no no.

Because first of all, you're not saying no correct name.

It's the Trump Kennedy.

So yes, he put his name in front of it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And and with that that's a crime as far as I'm concerned.

And, I wouldn't have anything to do with it.

Okay.

Lee, do you agree with that, that position on it?

Absolutely.

Yeah.

I, I hope that changes.

Yeah.

I mean, who knows what the next couple of years.

Last year has felt like a decade.

I mean, so who knows what the next couple of years will be like, but, so, doctor Hale's talking to remaining time there.

Let's talk just a little bit more about knee on the neck.

You know, I mean, clearly, if we know the story of George Floyd, we can understand some of the pain and the emotion there.

Are you a believer that art can be a vehicle for change?

Doctor.

Historic.

Oh, yes.

I am.

I absolutely no pleasure.

And in this case, I really remember what music originally stood for.

Mission.

It was.

It was a ceremonial thing.

And that music was always served as a ceremony of, for the, expression of community desires and, and beliefs and, that's that's what music is to me.

I mean, I, I came up in an Episcopal cathedral in Albany, New York, and whenever, you know, we sang, we were saying and singing for ceremonial reasons.

And I expressed a certain part of the, religious season.

So, yeah, music is a horrible, powerful element.

Absolutely.

You told music two years ago that in order to include more diverse voices on stages in concert halls, here's what you said.

You said conductors and administrators have to care about opening their doors and lifting their ceilings, because they can have their entire careers playing dead Europeans.

Otherwise it's true.

Tell me more about that.

Well, let's face it.

And, a conductor, and, board, choose the, repertoire that their orchestras or their opera companies are going to do.

And, the there's such a vast amount of literature, they certainly do not have to look to American composers, if they don't want to.

And they certainly don't, which is a fringe group, and they don't have to look, African American composers in particular, because the fringe of a fringe.

So, things have gotten a trifle better.

But, it's a fact of reality.

I mean, if you look at, you know, if you just look at the the vast quantity of music produced by Mozart and Beethoven, all those guys, all of this fabulous stuff.

Then, they you have to go overboard in terms of your, research to find, pieces of Native Americans that you might want a program.

You also said that you used to have the attitude of, you said, don't tell anybody my race before playing a piece.

Has that changed?

I'm indifferent to it.

The, I've gotten good reception from audiences, and performers, just despite, not in the expression of, or the knowledge of, who I was racially, I don't I the music is itself, by a person, and I don't get into, well, you know, it's got to represent, black culture or blackness or whatever that is.

I just write and I think people are appreciating that that is, my goal in life.

So let me ask a clumsy follow up question and doctor house talk.

You know, I, I can understand the disposition that says maybe don't tell people my race before playing this piece or for programing the work because, here's where it gets clumsy.

But, you know, I'm, I'm watching an NFL offseason in which there's ten teams that fired their head coaches and they're not allowed to hire a new coach unless they interview two candidates of color.

And you had Cleveland, where I grew up, had to wait days to make an announcement because they had to get a second black candidate in the door to just say, okay, we did it.

We interviewed two, two black guys, and now we can hire who we want.

No candidates of color have been hired in this sequence, but it becomes sort of ridiculous.

And it's almost to me, is is the fan of the sport insulting to the black men who are taking these interviews, who clearly the teams have no intentions.

And what I don't want to see is a world in which where we've got this company, this stage, this theater saying, all right, we we programed one black composer, you know, we did our duty as opposed to we want quality and we know there's quality coming from everywhere and we don't, you know, but we're not going to tokenize it.

We're going to choose and we're going to be, you know, intentional.

How do you feel about getting the right balance?

That isn't just saying, all right, we checked the box.

Now we can move on.

That's an interesting question.

It's a different thing.

That's, the art world is is very different from the music world.

A number the art world has established masterworks and, as I said before, you can easily, spend your whole career.

I mean, we know, many artists who spend the whole career playing, European composers and, they have a right to do that.

My hope is that, they'll open their minds a little bit more and seek, works that were not written on by, Europeans.

And that would include Americans.

I mean, after all, that was the, the one of the the motivating principle between behind much of our and corpus work.

They started out saying they wanted to create an American esthetic and an American sound.

And, Aaron did that, created something that Americans, especially here as an American sound.

But that's okay.

And so it's, the question of opening the doors.

That's all.

I don't know if that goes quite the same, for sports.

But that's, that's a big business.

And, it's not an established masterwork, situation.

No, I think that's that's certainly fair.

Well, listen, our time is short with Doctor Historic, and I got to say, our our, our colleagues down in classical are so excited to hear this conversation.

You've listed Rochester native David Diamond as a teacher.

And our friends and excited classical, right?

They remember him well.

He was a super brainy and stubborn guy who could sometimes rub people the wrong way.

They said, what did what did you learn from him?

Oh, I learned, exactly what I was.

What you just mentioned that he or he saw me, bowing too much to my, theory training, which I had a strong grounding and theory.

He would, say, who says he would question?

Had me question the concept of, Because I've been taught this way.

I must do such.

And such.

And he would always say, who says?

And that was a very pivotal, experience in working with him.

Well, WXXI classical morning host Brenda Tremblay says you have the coolest name in the classical library, Adolphus Cunningham.

He'll start the third, and she wonders, yeah, if she wonders about your family history, is there any more you can tell us about yourself before we have to let you go?

Well, it's the name that intrigues people.

The name is intrigued.

Me too.

I have, It goes way back.

Well, my my grandfather and my father all had the same name.

The third and, where that came from remains to be, seen.

I'm not sure, actually, it's.

But I've been told, that it's a German name, but the original, original version of it was hollow, stark or something like that, which, the stark is power hoggle.

I don't know, that means hollow, maybe.

And, That's that that's how it came to be.

And it's, kind of weird.

And I've got a weird, weird mixed up background.

And I hope someday, long after I'm gone, I'm sure that somebody will just do some musicological research and come to a close.

Oh, okay.

This is where it came from.

I have no idea.

It's a there's, it's, part American Indian, part, German.

So, and of course, African and, there you go.

One Mr.

Bongo.

Well, doctor Hal Stark, I want to thank you for being generous with your time.

I know Rochester looking forward to seeing you back in your native Rochester on Saturday.

Good luck to you, sir.

Thank you very much for the time today.

Thank you very much.

That is, really the great doctor office, historic, award winning composer and want to tell you that the event is coming up on Saturday.

It's at 3:00 at United Presbyterian Church on Fitzhugh Street, and community members are welcome to attend doctor Hill's talks.

Collaborative work in rehearsal with the choirs 12 to 2, so 12 to 2 and then 3:00 for the performance at United Presbyterian Church.

We're going to take a short break, come back with Lee Wright, talk about some of what we just heard and and talk about some of these broader themes of the power of, of music and art, especially at this American moment.

I'm Evan Dawson Thursday and the next connections.

Our WXXI colleague Mikhail Gerstein is in his native Ukraine, and he's going to be joining us remotely talking about what he is seeing in Ukraine and what the spirit of the people is like now.

In our second hour, we take a look at City magazine's February issue with the subject Sex and Love.

Talk with you on Thursday.

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Details online at Xcel bcbs.com.

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On the next morning Edition from NPR news, this is connections.

I'm Evan Dawson.

There are days where, you know, I feel not very qualified to sit in this chair.

And this is one of those hours, I will tell you.

Our colleagues at classical down the hall, would be better suited than me.

They do such great work.

But they also know that, how much I not only appreciate great art, great music, but a great Rochester story.

And you just heard it in Adolphus Hill stork.

And, you know, Lee Wright was talking during a brief break about this is your first chance to meet him in person this Saturday, right?

Yes.

Big deal there.

So, I mean, I think, you know, he he joked about his advancing age, but what a conversation and what a thinker to me.

What stood out to you in that conversation.

Well, he's, he's just such a thoughtful artist.

And and just easy, easy to speak with.

And, you know, so often I think we as, as musicians even it's easy to put a wall up between ourselves and, and composers who are all, all have a certain sort of greatness that's different from, you know, us who are, who are simply practicing, in the interpreting, I suppose.

Yeah.

I didn't sense any sort of walls or distance with him at all, which was really, really lovely.

What do you want the community to know about the event on Saturday?

I, you know, there it's a chance to hear several different choirs from the area, particularly academic choirs, which don't often come together.

You know, last summer I was thinking about what are some things I can do as director of music ministry at, downtown Presbyterian Church to invite more of the community through our doors.

And you have events that bring people together because really, I think of myself as being in the community building business.

And, as a church musician, as an educator, both with groups and individuals.

I always hope that music can bring us closer together and bring people together that may not otherwise be in the same room.

And I have found that certainly with, even just working with my choir, first inversion that draws people from all over the community, from different walks of life, but all with a common love of music and wanting to sing together.

So this particular event with the corral from the Eastman School of Music, where I've spent many years working on degrees, the Chamber Singers from Nazareth University, where I have just started working and building relationships.

The, select choir from East Rochester High School and their wonderful director, Tim Lambert, who I've known for many years, actually first met through the church.

And, now I've had a more professional relationship.

I'm just so excited to see all these groups coming together and getting to hear from a composer directly is always so exciting.

Especially, I think, for an ensemble that's been working on a piece for a while.

And to be able, you know, your conductor might say lots of things about how to do it and, and their desires for it coming together.

But there's nothing like hearing from a composer directly.

So the Hail Start choral festival celebrating Rochester's own Adolphus Hill stork again Saturday at three at downtown United Presbyterian Church.

They would love to see you there.

You heard Doctor Hill Stork say that he's working on, a piece regarding what he has seen in Minneapolis with ice that that has been on his mind to obviously, he has already addressed the murder of George Floyd in his work.

And, Lee, you've said that the discomfort surrounding art, what the purpose in your an art that might have a difficult story to tell has been on your mind.

Tell us more about that.

It certainly has.

And you know, as I've come up through my education and, and, and decided to become a, a scholar of the American Negro spiritual, specifically, very early on, I thought I noticed that concert spirituals were a thing.

And no artist, that they would often be performed, at the ends of concerts, perhaps.

Maybe one, one spiritual encounter.

It often, often there's high energy.

Sometimes they're arranged in a gospel style.

But I but I began to think that, you know, they were almost kind of just being tokenized in, in concerts individually.

And so I began to, curate full programs.

Featuring the spiritual and, and, you know, the last time I sat here with you, we were talking, about a time when I had programed a full program of spirituals for on the Rochester Fringe Festival.

And, and the choir singing is mostly made up of white Americans and, with a few, African-Americans joining, and and people didn't know what to think about that.

People some people were really outraged, to see all the white things.

Yeah.

I think to see white singers singing this music when for so long in the music business, you know, the intellectual property of, of African-Americans has been stolen, exploited, by white America.

And so I, I understand why people would look at this and think the same thing.

And this music is really being being arranged in choral settings for choirs, all choirs to sing, and some of it particularly for really, choirs trained in more European traditions, which there aren't necessarily as many all black church choirs that are, you know, seeking out these sorts of arrangements of spirituals.

So it's really something that actually, in some ways, you could say has been created for, for choirs coming from European traditions to sing.

And is that is that uncomfortable?

Does it it does it provoke questions and thought?

Absolutely.

I thought you handled the previous incident, the episode with a lot of grace.

And I know that it can be tough because I also understand the emotions that people feel.

My observation again, I'm going to stay with the clumsy theme here, but let's just like put stuff out there.

If a spiritual is being performed, or if the work of a black composer is on a stage.

If an oratorio about George Floyd is being performed and it's being performed by a largely white set of artists who have sort of cynical ideas about taking something that might be of the moment in the zeitgeist and profiting off it.

That's one thing.

If it's another to say we've got dedicated community members who care about learning and experiencing and hearing, and one way to bring them into understanding a little bit more about the voice of an expression of pain, of loss is, is to sing with us, to be on that stage, to try to understand how the words might hit differently.

And then I think it's kind of different.

I don't see that as taking away.

I see that as an attempt to try to bridge misunderstanding or lack of understanding across culture.

There's that naive, I've often thought of myself as naive and idealistic, and, and I wouldn't have it any other way.

Life is too short to to be cynical.

I think, and it was the idea of people profiting.

First of all, there really isn't profit in classical choral singing.

Especially with, you know, large community choirs.

I there are a few, you know, there's a handful of professional singers that sing with first inversion and they receive a very small stipend, kind of a token of, you know, appreciation for helping the community bring this, this work to life.

But perhaps, you know, really across the board, in contrast to the professional symphony orchestra, which is a very, you know, a professional all paid thing.

So there's just not there's not nearly the money in that, that there is in other types of, more popular forms of, of music where there is really lots of money involved in classical music, people are mostly getting by, making a living.

And when it comes to choral singing, choral singing is mostly volunteer, in this country, or around the world, really.

And so to think that by singing this music, all these singers are somehow profiting, hopefully.

Or they are profiting simply through the education, through the experience of embodying these words that, yes, perhaps aren't theirs.

And the words are never ours directly when we're singing, you know, words that someone else wrote down.

Sure.

But it's it's our job to put ourselves in those shoes and to feel those words.

And I think that's perhaps the most important element here.

It's taking this music and taking these words, and everyone is going to have different feelings about about them and about singing them and about the experience.

And it's about having that experience, sharing it together and then talking about it, that I think that's where the power for change lies.

Yeah.

You know, and listening, doctor Historic say that we've got a choice and we can play a dead Europeans forever.

And by the way, he said their work is great.

I mean, like, nobody's looking at like, Beethoven and Bach and, you know, Schumann and many others and going like, you know, actually, in retrospect, I actually don't think it was any good.

I don't think that's what people are saying.

Right.

I think what he's saying is there, the body of work is so big, and the focus for so long has been on it that you could miss things if you're not careful.

So a appreciate and celebrate the works of the greats.

But, you know, maybe don't just live in that in that narrow world.

And I wonder if you agree with that, if you think that there's, I don't think people who mostly are playing the dead Europeans as Doctor Hill, stark says, have bad intentions.

But I wonder what you think about his point there.

Absolutely.

You know, I look at my own, my own knowledge, my own, programing over the years.

And you know, we do we do what we're exposed to and with a finite amount of time as we go about our daily lives, it is easy to simply do what we know.

Focus on the things we've already learned.

And I have noticed, you know, even as a black American, I have simply become more aware of more music by black composers recently than in my early education or as I was going through my degree work.

Because, you know, someone like Adolphus Hill, stork was not talked about as much, when I was doing my undergraduate degree as he is now.

And I am happy to see that change in consciousness awareness and, and I think it comes from a great place.

And I think it's important for us to give ourselves grace for the past, and also just continually think about how, how can we do better in the in the future?

What can we be aware of?

That's going to help all of us?

Yeah.

I mean, if you're just coming in to some black composer, I mean, I, I understand the challenge of being heard.

I also wonder if there is I mean, I think about what then-Senator Barack Obama was talking about, about stereotypes that tell you this is an activity for your culture.

This is an activity for my culture.

Never the two shall meet.

And you know how that kept in his words, a lot of black kids out of certain activities and themes and art, is there still a perception in parts of the black community, perhaps, that, you know, classical music is a white person's pursuit?

I think most definitely still.

So, yeah.

And, you know, as much as and then there are certainly more black students of music now, you know, if I go to the Eastman School of Music now, there are more black students than certainly when I was an undergrad, I was one of maybe 3 or 4 that I remember at at that specific time.

And, and I am very aware that my entrance into classical music had a lot to do with, you know, influence from my, my white grandparents because I, I mixed race and, and a lot of the black classical musicians I know we are the, to use a heel stalks word fringe.

But, you know, yeah, pursuing classical music is not mainstream in black communities.

And there are some black people that fall in love with it and study it and, and have the, the access, from an from an early age to this music and, and to learning about this music.

But I do find that, that it is still a relatively inaccessible artform for a lot of people.

So, before I get to some questions from my colleague Brendan Tremblay, who, of course, is, I'll steal Brendan's work all the time.

I mean, I've got such good colleagues.

They're so smart and, I just want to ask you one other thing about the debate going on on the national stage about the Trump Kennedy.

So I keep calling it the Kennedy Center.

And doctor, how struck was I understood.

So you got to call it by its whole name and understand why people are not doing it.

There's an argument that says.

If you don't show up on a stage, then you're not going to convince anybody in that audience that they might have been wrong about something, or that they might have been closed minded about something, and that you're going to let them stay in their own sort of carefully curated bubbles.

And as hard as it can be, sometimes the valuable thing to do is to to be on that stage in front of the audience who is suspicious of you.

Easy for me to say.

As someone who's not at risk of anything, I mean, like I want to acknowledge not in any sort of, you know, academic or, you know, silly way, but in a real way that some people might not feel all that safe and in certain places performing.

I get it, I do, but what do you make of the argument that, you know, when you can get on that stage, get on that stage, you know, that audience needs to hear you.

That audience needs to hear your work, your voice, the ideas.

And now they're now they've got more kid Rock.

What do you think.

Yeah.

It's that is that is a difficult question.

And I think with particular with the Trump Kennedy Center right now that stage is a particularly.

Yes.

Fraught.

It's loaded.

Yeah.

And and I don't really know what it is.

And I don't even know what the audience.

Yeah.

Who is the current audience?

I feel they're I'm not.

That's a fair point.

I mean, I guess you and I think audience and artists are saying no, we don't want to have anything to do with this kind of hate and divisiveness.

Yeah, I think that's a fair point, too.

And, but it did cause me to think of, you know, I've done I've taken first inversion into the Southern Tier a couple times for performances of holding On Through Song, our program of spirituals, for audiences that aren't are safe Rochester hometown, audience people who may come to those concerts.

I mean, I, I like to think if, if, if they came to begin with, then there's probably some sort of friendliness, some, you know, it's the, like a self-selecting audience in a certain way.

Right, right.

And, because, you know, we don't often have the opportunity and I'm not sure if it makes sense or not, but people, people choose to come to something usually based on what's being performed.

And, yeah.

And so it's rare that we perform for the audience that we know truly doesn't agree with us or, you know, fair play, sort of thing.

But the but there's a lot but there's a spectrum, right?

And we always hope that someone, someone might come in and expecting something general, but learn something specific that that touches them and, and, and an expected way.

So this is for my colleague Brenda Tremblay, who says that last year first and version sang hail storks arrangement of the spiritual sometimes I Feel Like a motherless child that, with soloist Robert Sims and Kirsten Piper Brown and that song has been covered a million times, and it's usually a very slow lament.

But this arrangement, Brenda says, is driving, upbeat, almost jazzy.

What is it about?

And spiritual, she says, that really inspires performers and audiences is something I've noticed and a reason I've, programed specifically some of Hail Storks spiritual arrangements.

But also some others.

Recently, you know, we we actually did this year's, just performed this year's, performance of Holding On Through song last weekend, and featured some new arrangements by Marcus Le Garrett, and Sean Polo and some new arrangers that are really taking their arrangements in different directions.

And I think partly in reaction to the times that we're living in.

And because there was a time when a lot of the spirituals just had, you know, by folks like, Harry Thacker, early and early arrangers of the spirituals, does had they had a similar flavor, they were comfortable in a certain style of writing.

And then even later, the spiritual arrangements of Moses Hogan, that some of which are very flashy.

A lot of them weren't directly at least in a musical sense, dealing with the friction, dealing with the underlying issues that the music is presenting.

And, you know, and it's it's it's one thing to present the music in a relatively subtle way and leave it to the audience to say, now, okay, this is an American Negro spiritual.

These are the words, this is how you know, this is where this came from.

You know, it was easy to miss that in the past.

If you just listen to the music and didn't think about it too deeply.

I think now, you know, with health stalks, particularly Motherless Child arrangement that is so gripping.

It is so emotional, you can't help but I think go to.

Deep into the feeling of the music.

And to understanding the struggle, when you hear it, and I that and I think composers today are bringing that out in different ways, and in many beautiful ways that I think are very thought provoking and compelling.

Well, as we get ready to wrap here, let's remind our audience, oh, man, I've got so many pages of questions.

But the event is coming up on Saturday here.

The historic Choral festival is happening on Saturday, celebrating Rochester's own Adolphus Hill store.

Who you heard in our first half hour on this program today.

It's happening Saturday at 3:00 at downtown United Presbyterian Church on Fitzhugh Street, and community members are welcome to attend.

Doctor Hill talks collaborative work in rehearsal with the choirs from 12 to 2.

You'd love to see people there.

We'd love to see people there.

It's a free event.

As I said, I'm in the business of community building, and I hope to, meet people that I haven't met before coming.

Coming in and experiencing the music, experiencing this great composer in our midst, enjoying the contributions of of the choirs from students, really from, around the world who are studying here in Rochester and, and admission is just, a suggested donation.

You know, we we hope that you'll be moved and want to support the continuing programing.

But access is open to all.

And, and really, my goal is just to see people there, learning something and appreciating the work.

Last 30s, this is your chance to meet Doctor Historic in person for the first time.

Certainly most of the people coming out will not have had that opportunity.

And this is a Rochester area and that I think we're going to be celebrating more, hopefully and becoming more aware of.

What are people going to find out about Adolphus Hill, Sauk?

I think they'll find out that he's just a wonderful, warm human being, very approachable as we as we heard and, and I hope that it helps to break down that, that wall that often gets put up between, you know, the composers of art music that can seem so distant and formal, know their people.

And, and to connect with the person and connect with their music is to, is to build community and make this place of a better world to live in.

Thank you.

Lee Wright, director of music ministry at Downtown United Presbyterian Church, founding artistic director of First Inversion Choral Ensemble, and director of the Treble Choir, and as you Director of Mixed Choirs, University of Rochester.

Great having you.

Thank you very much.

Thank you so much, Evan.

And we're hearing some of Hail Stark's own work on nee on the neck.

We'll close with that and we'll talk to you tomorrow on member supported public media in Haines City.

My name is me, and I left my 14 year.

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