From Sky news.

This is connections.

I'm Evan Dawson.

Our connection this hour was made in 2022, when the United States saw a record number of suicides that year, 49,500 Americans died by suicide.

The largest increase were seen in men over the age of 75 years old.

As the Los Angeles Times reports, men over 75 were dying by suicide at more than twice the rate of men younger than 25.

The rise in suicide among men, especially middle age and older, is now well-documented.

The question is what can arrest that trend?

What can slow it down in 2023?

One year after that new American record, our country saw 49,300 suicides, almost exactly the same number.

And yet that very mild decline saw a sign of hope.

USA aside, rates had been rising for nearly 20 years.

Columbia University public Health professor Katherine Keyes told the Voice of American News that a leveling off of any increase in suicide is cautiously promising news.

And she pointed to a two year old national crisis line that allows anyone in the United States to dial 988 to reach mental health specialists.

We are seeing the early signs that that kind of resource is capable of working in our region.

Nine, eight, eight is often talked about in conjunction with 211988, the National Suicide Prevention line.

211A number to call to connect with a wider range of resources.

Suicide prevention, yes, but also food access and housing health care.

Last year, the service received more than 174,000 calls in our region.

We are not trying to be alarmist on this program.

It's not what we do.

We try to be real.

And right now, many Americans are feeling the stress.

Well, that can lead to kind of a crisis.

And this is a chance to better understand what resources are out there to help.

And we're going to do that this hour and talking about two on one.

And make sure that you or someone you love understands how to use it.

And let's talk about that at this hour.

Jennifer Lakes, president CEO of goodwill of the Finger Lakes, goodwill of the Finger Lakes.

We're talking 211.

Hello, Jennifer.

Hi, Ivan.

Thanks for having us today.

Better give a quick explanation for why goodwill the Finger Lakes is here when we're talking about two and one in crisis prevention.

Well, as your listeners know, goodwill is so much more than a stores.

We like to say when I'm here, we actually, thanks to people shopping and donating, are able to operate two and one and nine and eight across our region.

So we're the agency for the blind.

We have sustainability programs and we are so proud of the fact that 24 hours a day, seven days a week, we are answering the literal call or text or webchat and saving lives and connecting people to resources, all thanks to the money we raise in our stores.

Well, let me welcome as well Deborah Turner, who's director of crisis and referral services for goodwill, the Finger Lakes.

Deb, thank you for being here.

Thanks for having us.

And welcome to Sudeep Zaza, who is a customer service specialist for goodwill, the Finger Lakes, and has a remarkable story of her own that she's going to be sharing.

Welcome.

Thank you for being here.

Thank you Ivan.

Jen, do you think most people in our community know what two, one one is yet?

I don't, you know, in conversations when we talk about 211, you know, I get blank stares and I say, well, it's a easy access dialing number and more blank stares.

And I say, well, you know, 911 and people know what that is.

And you used to be able to talk about 411 and no one.

That's not a thing anymore.

No, no.

You know, so I'm like, well okay.

So from any phone you can dial to one one and get connected with an individual who can help with any type of human service concern.

and you don't have to be in crisis is what we like to tell people.

So you might want to know if there's a way to volunteer in your local community.

And it's all zip code based so that you get connected to resources around you or what's relevant in, in your life and in your needs.

So it could be a health related concern.

You were recently diagnosed with a condition, and you want to know if there's a support group or an agency to help you, or very severe things.

Food insufficiency you've lost your job.

So really, anything related to human service need you can dial 211 and get help in that moment.

And we'll get you connected to the right resources that can help get you back on track.

So we are not having a conversation that is expressly political this hour.

In fact, the work that the organization does is apolitical.

it's nonpartizan, of course, and it's community service for everyone.

So let me ask a question that just seeks to be direct and realistic.

A couple weeks ago, when we saw the freeze, the federal freeze, which was, I don't know, rescinded is the right word or corrected clarified, perhaps there was 24 to 48 hours where a lot of people were wondering, like, is that it for Medicaid?

I mean, no Medicaid or even Snap, food benefits.

Food assistance was, in question.

Did that have a ripple with two, one one, or was that did that start and stop too quickly for you to experience it?

You know, I think the, you know, it's it's always both.

And when when we get asked these types of questions, I think whenever there's uncertainty in the community, there are ripple effects with people who live with the constant pressures of everyday challenges with their finances, you know, with figuring out where their next meal is coming from.

It's almost the the one more, you know, straw that that just breaks the camel's back when you really think about it.

And, for a lot of local leaders, it's also exacerbating situations that that already exist.

And, you know, so even our own team members are kind of dealing with some of those same challenges around our funding sources and wondering how we're going to to keep answering the calls or an increase in calls.

you know, with, with our own uncertainty.

and let me ask the same question to Deb about that.

I mean, is there an impact that you feel pretty quickly at two and one when there is confusion, uncertainty about resources, even if it's short lived like that?

We do.

I mean, I think even if we don't get all of the influx of calls about the confusion, which we did see a little bit, just people wondering, what do I do?

What what you know, what resources can I access?

I think it was short lived enough that we didn't see a long term, but something else to know about two and one is because we hold that comprehensive database.

If we start to draw the lines of, okay, these organizations might start to get impacted.

We'll proactively start conversations with them to make sure you know what releasing is it up to date is accurate.

Do you need us to pause on sending referrals?

just so we can stay in tune with any ripple effects?

Kind of like what Jen was saying, or murmurs of ripple effects that we can stay on top of that.

What's your short description?

When people say, what is two one, one?

We are an easy to remember phone number because no one remembers 800 numbers.

they call us to get the 800 numbers.

but we are a 24 seven confidential information referral hotline.

that can do this through phone chat or text.

And we also have a website that's available for the community to search for free.

988 is targeted suicide prevention two and one has to be more broad based.

I mean, you have to be pretty well trained to help people and get connected.

You kind of have to know all the keys to the castle, it seems like.

Yes, absolutely.

Is that a fair description?

Yeah, yeah.

And I think we're really fortunate in this community is because we are blended.

So most two on one do not do crisis intervention, do not do suicide prevention work.

They they may do a very quick assessment and then do a warm transfer to a hotline.

But we can handle it all in-house, which is very unique.

and I want to ask, Jen a little bit about what's going on in Washington, if that could affect, what your operations are and what you're capable of doing.

and listeners have been asking a lot to see the same kind of question I'm about to ask you.

So, I will say that our CEO, Chris Hastings, put out, his, kind of a statement, and we'll share on social some of what the our CEO had to say today about protecting and about sharing the impact of, of what we do.

I think every organization I mean, goodwill's doing that exercise, doing that, we're all looking around going, okay, a lot of uncertainty.

and there could be some pain.

And we want to make sure we get out ahead of this.

And so we're trying to do that in a way that is positive, that is strong, that is arms linked across the community.

And we'll continue to do that.

And I'm sure we'll talk more about that at XXI for you could well the Finger Lakes, what is the story and what's what's the possible impact of what you're seeing.

So I think first off we at goodwill, the Finger Lakes talk a lot about living our organizational values, which is living goodwill blue.

And you know, no matter what that will never change.

You know, that's the foundation of why we do the work that we do and how we make decisions.

at our organization.

And, and, you know, it really is a political.

And we exist, you know, really to elevate, you know, people, community and planet for a good today and a better tomorrow.

That's our mission.

And and that's not going to change.

You know, I think when we look at funding streams, you know, we are blessed in that we have our goodwill stores and and that gives us a direct avenue to not only give things a second life, but to also provide employment opportunities and, really allow individuals who have barriers to employment, the opportunity to work and, and really earn good living in those jobs.

we also have our, manufacturing and contact center positions that are directly experiencing some of the, the challenges at the federal level, because it's not about just the executive orders and the freezes.

it's also about the federal procurement process.

And so we're a federal contractor, and the ability one program provides jobs to people who are blind.

And so, we have had a significant drop off in all of our sales of the South stack, you know, where the three M's are supplier.

So we make South Stack products or what people would call post-its, their branded name, as well as, some of the other things that we do.

And we're the lead hotline again, we have great contact center, competencies.

And so, you know, DOJ's is in the EPA right now.

And so, you know, as we think about those challenges, you know, we just want to do what we do every day, keep showing up for community, keep connecting people.

and and not being afraid to say to people, you know, now when you have the opportunity, you know, when you need to to buy, you know, a new decorative item for your house or if you need a new clothing item, if you could go to the goodwill store first, you're supporting the programs because we need your support now more than ever, just like public broadcasting.

and and we appreciate that everyone's challenged, but, we know that this is going to persist and the community will need these calls to be answered.

And we're going to do everything we can to make sure that we continue answering them for another 20 years to come, not to get too far down in the weeds.

So I promise we're going to get right back to two on one.

Really spend the hour on this really remarkable stories of what this, this service can provide.

but the way I would think about it, at least from our perspective, is I think there's some confusion about, how much funding and where it comes from and what we do.

And so we try to tell people all the time, especially when there's pledge campaigns, that the majority of our funding comes from me and you, you know, and sustaining members, people who have had $5 a month or ten bucks a month or 25 bucks a month, that's like that's the majority of it.

That's the backbone of what we do.

Yes.

There is a, I would call it a significant, a smaller but significant piece that comes from different sources.

at federal level, for example.

But the reason it's not Partizan is that, yeah, of course, we're going to advocate for the Corporation for Public Broadcasting.

I'm fighting for Fred Rogers here.

Like I'm not afraid to do it.

I believe in it.

And I believed in it for decades.

But you know who also believes in it?

Like a ton of a ton of Republicans and a ton of Democrats.

Some of the biggest advocates for public broadcasting, for Fred Rogers, for I have been Republicans.

It just so happens that the current administration, is a Republican administration.

But this is not a Partizan issue.

Not to me, not at all.

And we're going to advocate for us.

And in the meantime, we're going to be straight with the community about where we are.

And is that kind of how you view it?

You say, look, I want people to understand when we say it's nonpartisan, okay?

There's an administration right now, but we're not against anybody.

We're just advocating for what we do.

Exactly.

So when you look at, you know, SAMHSa funds 988, there is proven research that, you know, being able to answer the call when someone is in crisis literally saves lives.

When we look at the downstream cost savings from having two, one, one, be there to get someone connected, keep them from moving from, you know, if you're stable and you lose your job, the faster you get connected to some of those resources that keep you from moving from stable all the way down to crisis.

So maybe you get to at risk.

But if you can kind of get some early intervention, it's like everything in life with some supports, the faster you acknowledge there's an issue, get connected to some resources, get back on your feet.

It's better for everyone.

And I really think that that is why the majority of these things really are bipartisan.

Because you know, it's humans.

We we want to to keep people thriving and get them connected.

And, and the majority of people, really understand that.

And I think that's what we want to, to dial into.

And, you know, two on one day gives us an opportunity every year.

It's a number one talk about that.

There's this cool three digit number you can call, that's free.

And, you know, our community has embraced it.

And we really because of goodwill, really underwriting it thanks to people shopping at our stores, we've allowed it to be used for so many other community services in a way that, the Finger Lakes region and Rochester, Monroe County really benefits from, because the community really gets that.

and, and it really all works together collectively.

How many stores do you have around the region?

so we have, 11 stores, with a couple more set to open later this year.

Okay.

And how many people do you have working on two on one we have for the total on lifetime program, about 80 employees.

80.

I would say that's supervision, quality assurance, front line.

You know, it takes a lot of infrastructure to support, bringing people on, you know, like our training program is 3 to 4 weeks.

we also tap into veteran staff to help with mentoring what we call a nesting period.

Or people get comfortable, you know, or a little uncomfortable with the lines just so they can have that extra support.

we have a clinician on staff as well who supports when there's, some support that those frontline staff here, because we hear a lot of really difficult things.

And I'm curious, trauma is very real for our team.

Yeah.

So some generic examples, no specific cases, but the kind of calls that you might get this week would be here's one.

Here's another.

What are the what are the kinds.

Yeah.

we get calls.

We have lots of frequent callers who call back.

you know, some are elderly, some have disabilities where they're feeling lonely and they're struggling.

They're not sure how to get access to the resources they need, whether that's transportation, food or just socialization.

we get calls.

Probably the biggest ones right now because it's the cold season is homeless shelter, you know, folks reaching out because they're just not sure what to do.

They just got evicted.

you know, we have folks that are living on the street and they don't know where the shelter is or how to access it.

we're getting a lot of calls around housing as well that people are struggling to find affordable and safe housing.

And our community.

and the reason I open the program, talking about a little glimmer of hope and the national suicide numbers, no one is celebrating.

I mean, in 2022, when we had a national high and suicides, nearly 50,000 suicides, I mean, it's it should really horrify all of us.

And so when you see a little, little downturn, even a little one in the next year, after roughly 20 years set aside one pandemic year, 20 years of a march upward.

Yeah.

And you've got people who analyze this stuff going, you know, like nine, eight, maybe work in here.

I bring it up because these kinds of resources nine, eight, eight, two and one, I mean, I'm an evidence guy.

I'd like to know if it works, but there is evidence that when people have services, outcomes change versus when they have no idea where to go and they feel entirely isolated.

Yeah.

Do you feel like that's a fair description?

Absolutely.

You know, I think I think the pandemic in particular, it kind of blew open all these issues that had been brewing for quite a while, where it kind of forced people to reach out who traditionally wouldn't have, to have these conversations.

I think, too, there's been a shift in what's acceptable to talk about a suicide.

You know, I I've been doing this job for over ten years at this point.

And I started at the front lines.

And and I have noticed the shift, even in having conversations about it.

How so?

Well, just there's a willingness there's more of a willingness now.

It's not it's not this taboo.

I guess it's not as taboo.

it's still is.

You know, I think in a lot of communities it's still uncomfortable to talk about, but, I have noticed a greater comfort, I think, and people talking about it, that mental health is real.

And I think there's a lot of driving forces behind, like why that conversation is now more acceptable.

but I think nine eight is an incredibly valuable tool.

I mean, suicide hotlines have been around for quite a while.

It just hasn't been as studied as it has been, I think, because SAMHSa is now behind it more, definitely in the clinical settings like hospitals.

See, perhaps those traditional clinical settings it has, but suicide hotlines haven't been until I would say the last five or 5 to 10 years.

There's been more data coming out about it.

Like you said.

You said you started on the front lines.

I did you mean taken calls?

Yep.

Yeah.

can you describe what is required for someone to have the right touch to do that?

empathy.

That's absolutely number one.

you know, you got a lot of good people taking calls.

We do.

We have a lot of people who have lived experiences, they may have experiences with trauma, experiences with poverty.

You know, we of course, they share what they want to share about that, but we see that as only something that adds to their ability to build rapport and connection.

You know, because clinicians have a place.

but I think in particular, the two on one line on the nine and eight line, there's something about not talking to a clinician that I think people feel comfortable with.

You know, of course we give training on assessment on the technology, on the tools.

But we can't train empathy.

That's that's something that someone has to have innately in them to do the work.

Jen has the staff know they're amazing.

And, you know, when we talk about that non-judgmental presence.

Yeah, it's it's phenomenal.

And we really specifically, do try to hire people who want to do this work.

and there is a balance I should should add that, not everyone with lived experience as a is a good candidate for this.

So we have a great hiring process that allows people to understand what some of the types of calls would be and decide for themselves if it's something they can handle.

and then on the the flip side, with two, one, one, it's also a good bridge for people who are hesitant or are really uncomfortable, or maybe had a bad experience with seeking some type of counseling or mental health supports, because you can call in and talk about the what, and maybe not the why.

So you can focus on, you know, I need this or I am having problems with a thing.

and by talking with our counselors, you still get that acceptance and that acknowledgment of, wow, you're going through a really rough time.

You know, other other people would would be struggling and, you know, it's amazing that your calling to deal with what you're going through.

And so what we've found with people is even if they're not seeking a referral for behavioral health or mental health services, just by kind of calling and having that conversation, they end in a much better place than before they started the call.

And so, you know, we're trying to help people understand that too, that, because we know that that in certain cultures there really is a stigma, to reaching out and getting help.

And so that's why two, one one is such an amazing vehicle for people to have a good experience.

And, and I think that is why people call back for other things and really establish that to when one is a go to place.

So when you said, do people know what two and one is?

I think people are starting to.

But if you've called, you definitely know what it is.

You start to tell other people about it and then you call back as you have another need.

or kind of want to go to that next level.

I have to imagine that the bulk of the calls, like the bulk of the calls we get, skews a little older.

So in the connections feedback we get, phone calls from an audience probably skews a little older because that's what they're used to.

and we get everything from everyone who has my number.

Will text me during the show.

It's amazing.

but also all kinds of other communications that skews younger.

And I wonder if there's a generational divide.

Do you do you see, you know, people in their 20s, small number, maybe 30 is a little more 40s.

More 50s, more an up.

I mean, do the numbers skew a little older in terms of who calls two one, one for two and one predominantly?

It's still the phone.

I think that's that's still predominantly the mechanism they use.

And so the age corridor, if people are using it is older or it does it is all different ages.

Yeah.

All different ages.

For nine, eight, eight we absolutely see a very stark difference.

In what way.

So with chats and texts we do get very young audiences.

So.

Oh okay.

so two on ones, just a phone line nine nine, eight.

You're saying.

No, but it's two and one has all of them.

No doubt.

Yeah, it does, it does.

But it's still predominantly people choosing to call.

And I think so most of the time when people use 2 in 1, they are calling.

And I think it's because they're dealing with complex problems that they may not be sure where to start or how to explain it.

Okay.

versus with nine and eight, you know, you're feeling a certain way and, and so you're chatting or you're texting in a way that's an easier entry point.

but with two on one, you kind of are explaining some background and some different things because you're, you're trying to deal with a situation where, yeah, it makes sense.

Now, I'm glad to hear that people are calling.

I mean, anybody who's got kids who've used phones, they're like, why did you call me?

You could text me like like who calls anybody?

And, you know, we hear that all the time from younger adults.

And, I'm, I'm glad to hear that people are using the service.

And I would say, though, our website does get over 100 and thousand utilization.

So there are a ton of people that are going to our website or using, my wayfinder, which is the the Together Now portal that leverages our database to do some self navigation.

So for sure there's there's a whole host of people not calling us, but utilizing our resource database as well.

More than 174,000 calls in the last year in the region.

That's the number, right?

Yeah, it's a huge number 2024.

We had about 210,000 contacts.

We're still processing all the data.

But that's that's a lot.

So that's phone chat text.

Yeah.

And the vast majority look like actual calls to two and one.

It's a huge number.

When we come back from this break you're going to hear this story.

you know, it really is a remarkable one.

And we're talking about 211.

It's growth.

yeah.

I mean, in our region, you think 211 you might think 988 suicide prevention.

211.

And number you can call really for I can think they would say call if you need something and they'll figure it out.

That's what they do.

Jennifer Lake is the president CEO of goodwill, the Finger Lakes, Deb Turner's director of crisis and referral services for goodwill at the Finger Lakes and CDPs, a customer service specialist.

And Sue story.

On the other side of this only break of the hour.

Coming up in our second hour, how would you feel if the speed limit was reduced in the area where you live?

Whether it be a good thing, would that prevent more injuries and death?

That's just one of many ideas.

There's a bicycle spine network, proposed pedestrian priority zones.

It's all part of Vision Zero for the city of Rochester, aimed at reducing or even eliminating pedestrian deaths.

And we'll talk about how next our.

Hearings to confirm Linda McMahon as secretary of education begin this week in the Senate.

Some critics say she doesn't have the education experience for the job.

Others argue that isn't necessary.

The Department of Education is not a school.

It's a bank.

It's an advocate.

It's a policy shop.

Hear more about who Linda McMahon is on All Things Considered from NPR news.

This afternoon at four.

This is connections.

I'm Evan Dawson, Joel writes and to say 911 also will take a text.

Good information to have if you want to access two and one.

More than 200,000 contacts you obviously you can call 211.

But what else can people do that you want them to know to get in touch them?

They can text us at 898211.

They can chat with us through our website or look at the resources on our website at 211 lifeline.org.

Sudeep Zaza is a customer service specialist.

Which means what?

What do you do now with them?

we have a food service department at goodwill, and we serve all the Monroe County senior sites.

And we have ten daycares, so I manage that.

Do you love it?

I love it.

Yep.

You love working with people?

I love working with people.

You're someone who is understood at various points in your life what it is like, when when there is a crisis and I want to take a step back and give you a chance to tell people a little bit about yourself and, and maybe how you kind of got to this point.

so take me back to earlier part of your life, and the floor is yours.

Okay, thanks.

In 2001, I was arrested for drinking and driving, and I hit my nine year old daughter in the car.

So I am a convicted felon as well as a grateful, recovering alcoholic.

I have 24 years.

I just celebrated that on February 7th.

Congratulations on that and goodwill gave me that chance.

So in my journey, I was I had to go from rehab to a halfway house in in between the two.

they weren't ready for me yet.

At the halfway house, I was blessed enough to be able to stay at Bethany House.

And my story is, I was stayed there for three weeks, but I actually volunteered for the next 15 years, and that was my first encounter with 211.

Bethany House was the shelter for women and children, and we also had diapers, formula, food.

we have emergency housing.

At the time it was very private.

The phone number was not out there to put two on.

One had us, they would call.

We need, you know, women, marginalized women in the community needed diapers, needed food, needed a safe place to come to stay for the day.

needed.

We'd have the officers calling through two, one, one.

They had a domestic violence situation.

They would bring a mother and a child to the house in the middle of the night.

I was blessed to be there that night and witness it.

And, we were able to get the woman out of the county the following day.

So those were my first encounters with two one, one.

after about a year of my sobriety, I had lost custody of my daughter, naturally, because I certainly wasn't a good parent at the time.

But I got custody of my daughter, and she began, when she was 12 years old.

We were walking home from school one day and she wanted to die.

So our journey into the mental health field started.

She was hospitalized 13 times over the next ten years.

And part of the treatment plan, her safety plan when leaving CPAp or strong at the time, was to if she felt like suicidal was to call 275 912757575 was lifeline at the time and two different parts of the journey.

She decided at one point to overdose and she took some pills.

She did what she was told and she called 211 after the over and after taking the pill.

After taking the pills, she called two and she called two one, one and she talked to the counselor on the other end of the line and told them what she had done.

He had told her, you need to go down and tell your mother, and I'm staying on the phone until I do talk to your mother.

And so she did.

She came downstairs and she told me, and she put me on the phone and he said, do I need to call the ambulance?

And I said, no, I'm right up the street from Highland.

I'll take her up.

So two and one literally, literally.

I've seen the lives that have saved it saved my daughter.

She's now proud to say, 33 years old, studying to get her master's in social work and working with the mentally challenged people.

Doing well in today's yes, doing great.

Wow is she.

She stayed on the line with him.

She stayed on the line.

He talked to her.

He talked her into staying on the line.

So this is a kind of a clumsy question, but.

How how did she stand?

She clearly had a relationship or felt like she was develop that relationship with her.

Yes.

Because I mean, I do I'm not the expert here.

And someone is going to correct me in a second.

But a lot of people in a crisis moment like that might hang up the phone might not make the call.

Yeah, exactly.

And your daughter stayed.

She makes the call and she stays on the line.

Exactly.

You'd be surprised that often that happens, that people stay on the line.

You get right on that, Mike, from either day.

Oh, I took it.

But that story, I mean, as powerful as it is, it's the kind of story you've heard in other places.

I've done it.

Absolutely.

And it you know, I think it's, we call it the finding, the turning point, finding what?

What is what is there meaning for living?

What?

Why did they reach out and and trying to really stuff that out.

And, you know, I've met your daughter.

Fantastic.

I'm just I always get like, a little, little teary with that.

just that connection.

because we don't always know what happens at the end of that call, but it's just always wonderful to hear outcomes like that.

yeah.

So being a counselor, in the past, on the lines, it's it's that rapport.

It's that I'm not here to yell at you or to judge you.

You know, you you reached out because it's evident you want to help.

And that that's the starting point of the conversation.

and that makes a difference.

You know, I've talked a lot of kids into letting me talk to their parents, and it's it's usually they just don't know how to tell their parents how they feel.

And they need help doing that.

And they may have formal supports like a counselor or a therapist, but sometimes just having that person that they don't know helping with that conversation makes a difference.

That's why I look at those numbers.

I mean, those suicide numbers, they're they're horrible.

But these are the stories that, you know, they could be worse.

And not everything two and one does is that acute?

I mean certainly sometimes it's just resource connection.

And I you know I need transportation don't know where to get it or you know need understanding on food assistance and either programs or services available.

But everybody listening can probably think of it if I said like, what's the worst day of your life?

Don't it?

Don't say it out loud.

Just think of it.

Everybody in the audience saying you could think of something.

Did that have a permanent effect on the rest of your life?

Could that have gone worse?

And was there someone to intervene and help?

And it seems to me like part of what two and one does is say like, we can be there at the worst moment if you need somebody there, and it might change the future when it did for your daughter.

amazing thing.

And I apologize for my ignorance being like, I can't believe she stayed on the phone because it's not like they do it, but that's building a real relationship.

I'm so glad to hear that that she's doing well.

Go ahead Deb.

Yeah.

No I just that you know that suicide prevention you know I think even starting further back of that education you know for your daughter like here is here is a safety plan.

Here's things you can do.

And even encouraging people to reach out before they have those thoughts.

That is absolutely suicide prevention to I just got a question from the audience.

is it 24 over 7211?

It is 24 hours a day, seven days a week, 365 days a year.

Your two and one in the Finger Lakes region never closes.

Okay.

And one someone else wanted clarity to, Did you say that, these three digit services, including 911, would take a text?

My understanding is they do.

Again, it was an audience member telling me no one will take two.

I'm sure they do.

I mean, you're all trying to be on multi platforms like we are.

Yeah.

You know.

Yeah.

but but so let me just kind of close the loop there.

Your daughter's doing great.

Getting her master's in social work I'm reading.

Correct.

Yes.

That seems appropriate.

Awesome.

Yeah.

And she's using her incredible talents to help other people.

She's that peer support that we've all talked about.

those of us that have had that experience or your best valuable resource.

Mom.

and how are you doing these days?

I'm doing awesome.

I'm trying to plan my retirement.

It's a it's a gradual process, but it's in the process.

And, I'm just extremely grateful to be able to be here to share my story so that at least if we affect one person and one person, here's what help we can be to them.

Did.

My job is something else that really stands out to your story, to me too, which is that you get arrested for felony DWI.

Your nine year old daughter was in the car, correct?

That was before Landers law.

Yeah, yeah.

And so you lost custody of her, correct.

Everything you have said in this interview is like like you could write a book on what accountability sounds like.

Like you.

You owned it.

Yes.

But not everybody who's gone through what you went through gets custody back.

That's work.

Correct?

It is.

I mean, that's not guaranteed that you're ever getting custody back at that point.

And she told the judge she drinks again, I'm out at 10 a.m.. Do you blame her?

No, not at all.

And I'm still accountable to her.

To her?

To this day.

After 24 years, I'm still accountable to her.

That's an amazing story.

I mean, that's a really beautiful story in so many ways.

Well thank you.

I know it really is.

because there was no guarantee it was going to go, that your life is going to go so well, look at all the people you're helping and your daughter's doing great, and it's a great story.

We're talking to one one.

And Sue is part of the team at goodwill of the Finger Lakes.

Jennifer Lakes, president CEO of goodwill, the Finger Lakes, Debra Turner is director of crisis and referral services for goodwill of the Finger Lakes.

So now let me ask all of our guests about, again, I don't want to overly emphasize just one category of a population.

but there has been a lot of reporting on the rise in suicides among middle age and older men.

And some of it you hear that it's because, people are, losing jobs or not being able to retire or not being able to work until retirement or can't support a family.

Losing jobs may have a sense of identity.

Some of it's just social disconnection.

I think.

But again, this is not my expertise.

And so let me start with Deb.

I mean, does your work at two and one or does nine and eight, does that reflect in our region?

I mean, have we seen more concern in that, in that category of people about suicide, ideology, Ida, ideation, that kind of thing?

yes, absolutely.

We're very involved, with a lot of initiatives around suicide prevention.

So one that comes to mind is Partners Against Suicide, which is, the Monroe County suicide Prevention Coalition.

And we work in partnership, not just, you know, yes, call us, but what other organizations are also touching this population?

You know, we think about veteran populations.

We think about, you know, middle aged men who, you know, I think there's a different stigma attached with expressing their feelings.

like on a personal note, I, I think about what my father went through, you know, and, he didn't know how to talk about his feelings because that's just not what was encouraged or talked about.

he struggled with depression.

And it's interesting as an adult now, looking back on that time and those behaviors, it makes complete sense now to me.

but he just didn't know how to talk about his depression.

and I, I think that's that's where building up community is and other initiatives to encourage these is, you know, whether it's a high risk population to encourage that conversation among people, they feel comfortable and safe to do that.

yeah.

Just thinking about that very emotional time that we.

Yeah.

and you mentioned veterans too.

Yeah.

Of course we know, the reporting and the concern among suicides among veterans, has two on one locally been a resource for veterans in crisis.

Absolutely.

You know, it's it's for anyone.

Anyone can contact us.

you know, we can help get them to what's called a suicide prevention coordinator, that each, veteran's mental health outpatient clinic has, that we have those contacts in our system.

you know, I think in particular with veterans, firearm safety is a number one priority.

they can access those gun locks, actually, from law enforcement if they wish.

They don't have to ask questions.

They can ask for them and get them for free.

The Veterans crisis line actually gives those out as well for free, just to encourage that extra step or that extra measure to help them feel safe.

I was reading an article recently.

I think it's this was in the Atlantic about, of all things, masculinity, culture, especially with like the targeted advertising of male products.

So if you're, say, a 45 year old male who works on a YouTube show where the cameras make it look like you might be balding, I mean, you know, maybe occasionally you look up like, hey, does this product work?

And if you look up one thing, you get deluged for the next.

Well, the rest of your life, every time you're online, it's like, here's a shampoo, here's a pill, here's a product.

And you know, the data isn't great for any of them.

but what The Atlantic was exploring was a company called Hims, and I think there's a hers that goes with it, but it's these products that are making us convinced that if you're a man, and you're aging, that's not okay.

And we are here to stop it.

And, you know, whether it's hair loss or, you know, the lines on your face and all these things.

And the larger point was not just about whether the products work.

It's about what we think of ourselves as we get older.

And so I actually started thinking about that in conjunction with these stories about men who are losing their identity and feeling like, well, I was supposed to work in the same job for 40 years, and now I can't.

And I don't feel connected to things and I don't know how to talk about it.

There's still a stigma about men talking about certain things, and I just feel like we're still a little backwards with that, you know?

I mean, again, anybody's taking hims or whatever, that's fine.

Whatever you want.

It's great.

Rogaine doesn't work that well.

I'm pretty good, a testament, I don't know who knows?

not for me, but, but I try to be realistic, and I think we have to be realistic about what happens as we age, what our identity is, what work is, and then how to stay connected.

So I, I'm curious to know from your experience with all the empathy that you can provide to people when you talk to someone who is feeling isolated, maybe they maybe their kids are grown and maybe they've moved away.

Maybe they don't have a church or community that they belong to, and maybe they don't have the job that they used to have.

What what do you think about talking to them about that might help them see things a little differently?

I think it could absolutely.

I just to so the radio viewers know, I am a 30 year old woman.

So for me to pretend to know exactly what it's like to be in that person's shoes is unrealistic.

And I think it's starting with, you know, what are you concerned about?

You know, what prompted you to call how, how are you feeling?

Disconnected.

Like, tell me more about that.

And it's a it'd be a lot of active listening.

You know, I think if we're empathetic enough, we can at least relate to some feelings that someone may have.

Like, I could never pretend to know exactly what it's like to be that person who has children of, you know, from the nest.

And I'm retired.

You know, I have a toddler right now, so I'm very much in the sense, but just finding finding what that feeling is that I can relate to, at the very least, a feeling of loneliness.

I feel like every human has experience at some point in their life.

and I think helping them suss out, you know, where where would you find meaning and something at two and one we can absolutely do is, you know, hey, how would you feel about maybe contributing some of your experience back to the community?

Have you thought about volunteering?

Have you thought about it's fantastic.

You know, maybe coaching, you know, if you have an excellent background in a career, you know, maybe there's a way for you to give back in that sense because I, I can appreciate, you know, having experience and then not always having a place to have an outlet for it.

And I, I can't imagine what it's like to retire and and also you're closer to that journey.

Maybe you can weigh in somewhere.

I mean, every everybody feels differently about it.

I mean, like my mom used to say, all I want to do is wake up in the morning and have no one need me.

And my dad used to say, the worst thing would be to wake up and have no one need me.

Everybody's different.

True.

but.

But, Deb, clearly you are a remarkable listener.

And I think what your testimony this hour reveals to us is that we may think we are more connected with technology, but we're not doing a great job of feeling connected and feeling heard.

Yeah.

So I'm I don't know what that leads to, other than I hope more people know that you're there.

And that's part of partially why we're here this hour.

I'm talking about two and one.

It's as straightforward as that.

And yeah.

So you are looking forward to retirement aren't you I guess.

Yeah.

You want to wake up and have no one need you with that.

How's that sound exactly?

I'm pretty.

Pretty good.

It was only one cell phone.

Yep, yep.

Perfect.

Everybody's different.

I mean, that's been the hardest thing for my father, who, by the way, I mean, you know, love you.

Dad.

He's probably not listening.

He's in Cleveland.

But, you know, I mean, he's talked about his own depression in ways with his doctor that I can't believe I was hearing him say.

I thought, I mean, great, that's awesome.

Definitely talk about it.

Yeah.

That's the that's the way it's like half the battle.

Oh my gosh.

Just talking about it or putting the pieces together that maybe something isn't right with how I'm feeling.

Yeah.

That's hard.

Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely.

And you know, Sue, you and my dad are just different.

My dads just decided to too hard to wake up and feel like you're not needed.

And everybody has different needs.

But he has gotten better at talking about it and I'm proud of him for that.

It's great.

And I hope we all can.

So, in our last few minutes here before we go, I want to ask Jennifer Lake, who's the CEO, president and CEO of Goodwill to Finger Lakes.

to remind listeners if they're just kind of checking in here, we've been talking about what two, one, one does here, but how does two one, one fit in the broader framework of goodwill?

Because you've got I'm looking at, again, 7080 staffers for just two and one.

I mean, how does that fit in the constellation of goodwill?

So those, 80 team members are part of the 800 or so people who make up goodwill?

and it is, one of our community programs.

So many people just think about goodwill is as our stores, which is phenomenal.

We want your donation.

So thank you.

Because when you donate and when you shop it, it allows us to invest in having those 80 employees, you know, over, I think it's 80% of the funding comes directly from our own goodwill operations, and we couldn't do it, you know, without all of you.

And, you know, same thing with our programs for people who are blind or our Goodwill Learning Academy for people with an incomplete education.

So, you know, oftentimes we get asked why we sell things that are donated to us.

And it's absolutely to fund these vital community programs and also to create employment opportunities for individuals that other employers sometimes pass on.

for people who really want to work, but maybe don't have the skills or maybe haven't had the life experiences, and maybe haven't been taught the proper work habits.

And that's what we do a good well is, you know, we see the value in people's used stuff, and we also see the value in every person.

And earlier this hour, you mentioned, you know, some of the stuff that's going on in the federal government.

You mentioned that, for example, DOJ's in the EPA right now.

And so are you concerned that some of what DOJ's could do might have unintended, unintended downstream consequences that could come to organizations like yours?

So one of the things that that goodwill does, that a lot of people don't realize is we operate the the lead hotline.

So, we have about ten full time employees that answer those calls.

And they are all individuals who are legally blind.

And so, that contract is on an extension right now.

It's a six month extension and we're not sure what will happen.

So it's the the lead hotline that when you buy a can of paint, or you rent an apartment and there's wet paint and you know it, you know, or your child eats, paint chips, we answer those calls.

And so, you know, I, I think that just given general sentiments were nervous about those people's jobs.

and that's a lot for us to absorb within our organization.

and the flip side, while, you know, we don't have a ton of direct federal grants, the federal government buys a lot of the products that we make.

And, those sales have, really flatlined since the election.

So a lot of the office products we make, or just reductions in the federal workforce, mean that we won't be selling those products.

And, you know, that makes sense.

But we appreciate everyone shop in our stores instead.

Well, I know that's it's a tough time for a lot of organizations, but also that's why organizations like two and one are out trying to make sure that you understand what it is that they do.

what services are available, people like Deb and the remarkable staff and Sue and the whole team.

and I guess we'll see.

We'll check in later this year.

But on this two on one day, I guess it's 2 in 1 day.

Is that right?

Yeah.

That's I never know what day is another day.

but every day is two and one day for the team there.

24 seven.

Thank you for being here.

Jennifer Lakes, president CEO of goodwill, the Finger Lakes.

We appreciate you being here.

Thank you.

Deb Turner director of crisis and Referral Services.

Thanks for telling your story.

And Sue, I hope you get your retirement sooner than later.

But you know what?

Thank you for telling your story as well.

Thank you.

Best to you and your family.

More connections coming up in a moment.

This program is a production of Sky Public Radio.

The views expressed do not necessarily represent those of this station, its staff, management or underwriters.

The broadcast is meant for the private use of our audience, any rebroadcast or use in another medium, without express written consent of Sky is strictly prohibited.

Connections with Evan Dawson is available as a podcast.

Just click on the connections link at WXXI news.org.