From Sky news this is connections I'm Patrick Hoskin in for Evan Dawson.

Our connection this hour was made on June 20th, when the 2025 Rochester International Jazz Festival kicked off another year downtown.

And this year the fest boasts more than 1700 artists on 18 stages around town.

And true to its name, many of those acts are indeed international.

That's been the case since the festival launched in 2002.

Many of those international artists come down from Canada.

Some of those trips only take a few hours.

But this year, with the lingering threat of tariffs and heightened scrutiny about border crossings and even detainment, what used to be a simple trip has gotten a little bit more complicated, a little bit more difficult to navigate.

This is true for all internationally touring musicians at the time.

By the way, not just limited to Jazz Fest.

And some international artists have even said that over the last years, the process of securing work permits in the US has gotten way more complicated and way more expensive.

These applications can get routed through California, which can cause delays.

Or, you know, there's always ways of expediting it, but those cost more money.

And so on it goes.

It's different for local artists, of course, local artists who play the festival and gigs around town don't have to endure the same kind of roadblocks.

They can pack up their horns, drive ten minutes to the Gibbs Street stage where a lot of the shows happen at Jazz Fest, while their fellow musicians are enduring much more difficult process as well.

We're midway through Jazz Fest now, runs through June 28th.

And so to kind of talk this through and talk about a little bit what's different this year, we are joined by some of the year's performers who know all about these circumstances.

Joining us a little later, we have the Toronto based saxophonist Allison.

Now.

She'll be performing with her quartet this year.

We have built a barrier also here.

He's a local, a local music educator and gigging jazz player.

No stranger to the Jazz Fest, in fact, sort of a fixture of the Jazz Fest, I would say.

But wouldn't you say?

Very lucky to be.

So.

Thank you so much.

And you played at the very first one, if I'm not mistaken, it.

Yes.

Back in 2002, 2002.

Yeah.

Still playing.

So several shows this year as well.

Thanks for being here.

We we also have Claire Foy with us.

Claire is the vocalist for the band.

She bad.

They're based in Guelph, Ontario, and they've got two sets coming up at the Duke tomorrow night on June 25th.

So, Claire, thank you so much for joining us to thank you so much for having me.

I'm so excited for this conversation.

It's been really at the forefront of a lot of my peers lives.

And of course, my own, so.

Yeah.

Yes.

Thank you for having me now.

Of course.

And we and that's, you know, it's great to connect with you and kind of hear a little bit more about that.

You know, I know your band.

You you only, played your first U.S. shows only a few months ago, right?

Yes.

So, yeah, given kind of what you said and a little bit of the backdrop that I mentioned.

What did you talk about with your band, with your management, with some folks on your team, about coming to the U.S. during this time of a little bit more uncertainty when it comes to border crossings?

I mean, what were those conversations kind of like that you were you were having with your folks?

Yeah, I mean, definitely the issue of safety, was present in our conversations.

We took all the precautions that we could to make sure that, we were crossing properly.

We had all of our documentation in order.

And we had.

Yeah, all of the necessary things in place so that, we could cross safely.

We also did have to discuss if we were detained at the border.

What are our contact points?

So, yeah, we're we're lucky to be part of the, Canadian Musicians Union.

So, they do have lawyers on standby for things like this.

So, you know, we really did go the extra mile to make sure that we had everything we needed crossing.

So I think that was pretty much the primary discussion that we had in terms of actually physically crossing the border.

Just having, you know, in our eyes, crossing our T's in that regard.

So we could have a safe and swift entry.

Yeah, for sure.

And I mean, there's there's so obviously that all went great.

Shows were great.

I assume on the other side when you came across.

Yeah, yeah.

Once we were inside, it was a breeze.

And, we were welcomed with open arms and such kindness from from all of the places that we went.

The people were so accommodating and kind and and, I feel very lucky about that.

So.

Yeah, I mean, that's that's great.

That's great to know.

There's also I've been thinking about this, like, are there was there a certain thing that you were worried the most about.

Was it just kind of having some aspect of the paperwork not in order.

And then that leads to, you know, being not being able to get in, for example, and then kind of you're looking at sunk costs or is it more about just the uncertainty of what, because you don't know really what's going to happen at the border until you get there?

Yeah, it was definitely there was so much uncertainty in particular the two weeks leading up to leaving, because we didn't receive our work visas until a week before we left.

So and we didn't have any indication of when those were going through.

We had a general timeline of like because we we had submitted it in, the beginning of January and we received it the first week of May.

But the wait times are in constant flux right now.

Like you said, a lot of back ups, in terms of people getting it on time and, we really couldn't afford to pay the rush fee, which, you mentioned to just extremely expensive to rush hour visas.

So we were right on the fence about whether or not we would actually be able to go on the tour.

And as well, with the hype that heightened political tensions between Canada and the US, we were wondering if we should even go, really?

And.

Yeah.

And it was a really hard discussion we had to have we had actually had that discussion the night before our business came through.

We were about to kind of make the call, of whether or not to cancel the tour, which I know a lot of fellow Canadian musicians have made the the political call to do that on their own or the financial call or they didn't receive their visas in time and they had to had to cancel a tour, amongst other reasons as well.

So, yeah, I think the hardest thing was the uncertainty and not feeling like we were able to truly prepare until it was down to the wire.

But yeah, it was it was definitely, when we got the visas come through, we said, you know, we had booked this tour about eight months prior, and we wanted to honor all of our contracts on our commitments, on our, our team and the artists that we were sharing bills with.

So we ultimately made the choice to go, and also, you know, it's an opportunity of a lifetime to play in those different markets.

Like I said, it was our first time out there, and we we didn't want to give that away.

So, Yeah, yeah, there's.

Well, I was just gonna say I appreciate that perspective because, you know, there's, I think sort of an argument or maybe there's a, there's a conception of, you know, in this age of social media, there are a lot of ways that you can grow an audience base.

One of them, is obviously going out and playing shows, but it's there are a lot of acts who primarily can get a lot of, get a very strong audience base just on social media or by kind of growing their bigger brand.

So, is there.

Yeah.

I mean, but but but on the other side, like you're talking about literally playing in larger markets here in America, you're talking about going to different cities you've never been before.

Is there you know, that's a different thing, right?

I mean, you're talking you can't you can't necessarily replicate that on social media.

Exactly.

Yeah.

I mean, for me as an artist, I feel as though my job is to connect in physical space with people.

That's such a huge part of what I do.

Of course, creating the music, being in the studio, being on social media, those are all dimensions.

But where I find the most impact is creative is actually being in the same time and space as, the people that you're trying to connect with.

And those, those places and spaces are always when, I felt the most, connection, affirmation and my, my responsibility and my role as an artist, you know, seeing the tangible impact of what music can do for people, how it can move people, how it can unify people together in space.

That is just it's it's priceless.

And so, I think that's why for us, it was ultimately more important to get ourselves across the border because music transcends borders.

That's what music is about.

And we, we play music for the people.

And, we didn't want to let those people down.

We did have people who traveled out who who weren't from New York but were traveling from other states to New York to see us.

So there is a tangible physical impact when you're not able to to make those shows happen.

Right.

And we wanted we wanted to do that.

So, yeah, don't get me wrong, social media is important, but playing shows, you know, that aspect will cannot ever die.

We need to still be playing shows for people, well built videos here in the studio.

And he is nodding very vigorously.

You agree with all of this?

Well, in in the interesting thing about the festival, you're coming to is that, within this international festival and that has been one of the pride, one of the one of the really sources of pride that this festival has truly been international.

There is a lot of connection to Rochester area musicians as well.

So there's there's pride about our our local communities of players, and there's tremendous pride in welcoming, of the music that's coming from all over, literally all over the world.

Yeah.

Well, and, so that that's, I should say, Claire's band.

She bad performs at the Duke tomorrow night on June 25th.

Two sets, 730 and 945.

And it will be your Rochester International Jazz Festival debut.

So what do you want to previewed a little bit for folks who might be interested in coming out and seeing bad?

What can I look forward to?

Absolutely.

Yeah.

I hope whoever's hearing this, you come out to the show.

We would love to see you.

We would love to meet you.

Yeah.

We've been preparing for this, for a while, and, we've got most of our.

The music that we'll be playing tomorrow night will be from our debut album that we released this year.

Or.

Sorry, last year in November, called music is the Answer.

And I feel like that title is kind of the philosophy that we carry with us wherever we go.

Music is what propels us forward.

It's it's what's given us this incredible ability to travel and meet people and connect over music and all of these beautiful ways.

And so, yeah, many of the songs will be from our album that we've been workshopping for the past year, and, as well as, some of our favorite covers will be playing as well.

But yeah, we're we're so excited.

We have so much energy and we're ready to just to just be there and share our art with whoever's there.

It's we're really excited.

Yeah.

Cool.

Well, Claire, Claire's got limited time, so I.

We can definitely let you go, Claire, but I just want to say thanks so much for joining and for sharing your experience.

As, as you mentioned, Claire's band, she band will be here at the jazz festival.

So, Claire's the vocalist for she band, so thanks again.

Thanks for joining us.

Thank you so much for having me.

Hopefully I'll see most of you out there tomorrow night.

Love it.

So, Bill, I mean, that's a lot of that.

So music is the answer.

And we were just talking about that a little bit off the air.

Yeah.

And it's such a connecting force.

And exactly what she was talking about.

It being in the space with people is what every musician really strives to do is play live shows.

And I guess I should I sort of breezed over a lot of what you do.

I sort of lumped you into it, being an educator and being, a gigging musician.

But the educator part of it goes Fairport High School, but also through local colleges as well.

Yeah, yeah, that's been going on for many, many years as well as your playing as a. Yeah musicians.

Super lucky to be a full time music teacher for I'm just finishing this is year 41 at Fairport High School, and and I also am involved with, the music programs at three colleges.

University of Rochester, Ithaca College and Suny Geneseo, as well as doing some some work at Eastman Community Music School and hearing a little bit of that perspective from Claire.

I mean, yeah, I imagine you have a lot of conversations with folks, you know, certainly folks who come into town to play this first.

But just in general, being a player in the community, some international folks, I imagine two of you heard similar conversations, very similar.

I mean, I think artists are drawn to, the healing power of music and the connective, strains that we bring to our, you know, our art.

I think that that is a huge part of why we're in this has to do to get people to really listen together at the festival is kind of an an interesting microcosm, because you can play something that's very soft and has a lot of air and space around it, and people are really listening.

And that doesn't always happen in certain club situations, because there's just many other things going on.

And, you know, drinks are being served and meals are being served.

But here at the festival, it's really a listening environment for all of the indoor shows.

Even the outdoor shows draw particular attention.

So I think artists can kind of can they can do their full range of things that are soft and really meaningful and soulful and things that are more, you know, aggressive and in one's face and, you know, things that are really, really fun and danceable things as well.

So this I think we run the gamut of emotion, and I think that really brings people together.

There's a lot of smiling, there's a lot of movement, there's a lot of people coming from very diverse backgrounds to hear music, whether it's the free shows outside or in the tents or in the clubhouse venues.

And I mean, have you your experience to actually be a performer at the fest is much different in that, just from what we heard, you're you're local, you're based, you've had an ongoing relationship with the festival.

So you even just hearing a little bit about all the paperwork that goes into international folks coming in, you don't have to worry about any of that.

Thankfully not.

You know, we I should mention this is such a great opportunity for to mention that that John Nugent and Mark Iacono, from the very beginning of the festival, wanted to incorporate student student ensembles in every day of the festival, and we've done that every year since.

It started.

That was their idea.

And so the stage is the outdoor stage on the corner of Gibbs and East Avenue, which we named Jazz Street for the week has always started with student bands and, that has been a a huge, huge boost to, to I mean, we were just talking before we went on air.

Unfortunately, we have some real problems with heat today and some schools that are closed.

It's those kids are going to be so disappointed.

It's become a huge highlight at the end of the school year for our students to be involved with this festival, and one of the reasons is that they get a professional stage with professional sound and such respect from the audience, such great support and enthusiasm, regardless of where people are from.

So it's been something that has been a true gift to music education.

And I just need to mention that since, I've been involved from the beginning and trying to schedule the groups and spread the wealth on that stage.

Sure.

And what kind of, in your estimation?

I mean, we're talking about a 23 year or 23 year period.

Yeah.

What how have you how has it evolved for you personally?

Some things have been very similar.

You know, Patrick, they've they've stayed the same in terms of the overall schedule of of the way that the week has worked has been kind of a template that's been followed each year.

What has really, grown is that we now have, with the student component, we have these that everybody wants to get their group on there.

And, and you have to realize many students have graduated before they can get the opportunity to play at the festival.

So their graduation might be, say, tonight, and they play at the festival on Friday.

They still make that commitment and their families come in.

Sometimes they turn it into a real celebratory week of, this is my my senior year.

I get to play at the jazz festival and we'll have a party at at the at the house afterwards.

So that has really grown the interest in playing at the Jazz Fest stage for for students has really grown.

The festival itself, I feel like, has evolved and included lots of different kinds of music over the years, and jazz related music and music that's inspired by creativity and improvization.

I think John and Mark are very open minded, and I think that's really good for the festival.

Take it as they open this umbrella and the word jazz is very wide open in my in my opinion, there's a really, deep history of jazz and and you we had kind of the, the, the spokesperson for jazz as, as it, as it has evolved.

Wynton Marsalis was in was in town on Sunday night.

Right.

And and, you know, to have that kind of a legend and his legendary band play and then some music that's very forward thinking and jazz related and outside of the jazz realm, I think makes this festival really unique and very, very special.

What do you remember from the first year?

Where did where did you play?

Oh my goodness, we were in the big tent.

It was probably not quite as hot as it is today.

And I just remember that there was a lot of, you know, a lot of musicians.

We were just talking about this in my own group that a lot of Rochester musicians come out at the festival to hear other Rochester musicians, and it's a place where kind of almost a reunion of sorts.

It's a nine nights of hanging out with friends that you don't get a chance to see, because you're all playing in other venues.

So this kind of it's kind of a touchstone for the year.

And I remember there being a lot of musicians that I had tremendous respect for that came to our very first show there.

And I mean that that's a great element in sort of sustaining community building, as we've been talking about.

And for someone who's in, let's say, Claire's perspective coming in, it's their first performance here at this festival.

Depending on, you know, time.

I know a lot of it is loaded and load out if you're on a larger tour.

But for a, a visiting artist, an international artist, let's say, to come in and be able to kind of experience that and just kind of see that community bubbling up, I'm sure is also worthwhile.

I think it's palpable.

I think that artists come come to Rochester, they play this festival.

I feel like that.

They feel they're welcomed very, very warmly.

There's a lot of people that are that are used to going to shows that will kind of hang out and say hello to the musicians and thank them, and maybe ask specific questions.

Having the Eastman School of Music right here and having students that are spending their summers here that are Eastman students, these guys, these these students are going to everything and they are connected to the, the musicians that are coming in and they're asking questions.

And there are workshops for for younger musicians to, to participate in.

So there is a communal I think it's a, it's a, it's a real theme.

A real hallmark of this festival is building community.

And I should say, you're playing the festival.

You also you built a big band perform.

We did in and I was going to tell Claire the Duke is a great venue and and it's a new venue.

As of last year, it's a club that's attached to the the mercantile little indoor street of shops that used to be the Sibley Building for people that remember the Sibley Building in Rochester.

It's a it's a beautiful, probably 100 and 5075 seat club with, a stage.

It's built against the the front wall.

And so people walk in and can see the stage right away.

Every seat is a is a has a really good view of the stage.

And there's a, there's a full bar.

I think they serve food and there's food in the actual, mercantile street of shops during the shows.

It's a really nice venue.

Great sound.

John Winters doing the sound Council there.

He did it last year, too.

He's phenomenal.

And so he'll be able to get whatever sound that these or these groups are looking to, to get into capture.

He'll do a really great job.

So it it's a it's a little bit out of the you have to walk a little bit to get away from the from the kind of where the, the, the epicenter of the festival is a we walk down main just a little bit to get to this venue.

So the Duke is a great new venue and that's one of the gigs.

The other one, well, you have a couple others, but the music Educators big band, that's that.

Those performances are tonight, tonight on the Gibson stage.

So the Eastman Community Music School Sponsors and Educators Jazz Ensemble, which I direct, and we're doing a 730 and 930 show in the in the warm evening tonight, with lots of water nearby to keep us hydrated.

Those are free shows right on, Gibbs Street.

So the Music educators big band.

So who's in that?

So that involves, that involves educators from the Rochester area and some retired educators and a couple of people that are in related fields.

We meet specifically to perform at the Eastman School of Music and the Jazz Festival.

And then this year, we're actually performing out in parenting at the Sheraton Amphitheater as part of their Sunday night concert series in August.

So it's a group of these are people that I've known in some cases for many, many years in my career and some that are younger players that I that I've gotten to know in these last years.

So it's a, it's a, it's a group that gets together, rehearses 3 or 4 times for each show.

We have a great time playing together and they're all music educator.

Most art, most our music educators are related to music education.

Yeah.

And you're you're you're conducting.

Yes, I direct it.

Yes.

Okay.

Yeah.

So.

So I won't have to play tonight.

I was gonna say so that's a different setting.

It's a different role.

Yeah, it's a different role.

It's.

It's a group that I used to try to direct and play and found that that is a little bit challenging to if you're facing away from musicians and try to give them good instructions about where we are in the charts.

So I decide it's easier for me to stand in front of them and give directions about where we are in the tunes and, and give another person a chance to play.

So I don't play in the group, but I choose the music and we have some writers in the group.

We always do some original music by, people that are in the ensemble.

So we try to do a lot of the really current directions of large ensemble music.

Okay, so what would be what's what's like, a little example.

So, so, Tom Davis is a well known composer, and, we also have a young composer named Joey Stampy, and we're doing pieces by those artists, that were written in these in the last year.

And they are they reflect some of the kind of contemporary, directions that jazz is going.

So we don't do as much swing as, as a group that, that who's, who's, charter is to play traditional jazz.

We do a lot of contemporary styles, Latin rock, funk.

We're doing a tune that was inspired by Tower Power.

Tonight we're doing a Latin composition by a really great Latin writer.

So we kind of cover some bases that are would be more considered in the in that wider end of the umbrella that I was talking about.

So we're speaking with Bill Berio here of the Bill Severo band, as well as the music educators Big Band.

We're talking about all things Jazz Fest.

We do have to take one quick break this hour.

So we'll do that and we will come back and we, we'll talk more about the, 2025 Rochester International Jazz Festival.

I'm Patrick Haskin, filling in for Evan Dawson.

Coming up in our next hour, the Beach Boys Brian Wilson died on June 11th at age 82, but he felt immortal thanks to his massive musical influence.

He helped redefine pop music in the 60s, and his music continues to inspire today.

We're joined by some local musicians for whom Wilson was a musical North star, to talk about that influence next hour on connections.

Support for your public radio station comes from our members and from Bob Johnson, Auto Group.

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This is connections here on WSC, and we've been speaking with Bill Tiberius here about his long running relationship with the jazz festival, which we are in the middle of.

It runs June 20th through the 28th here in Rochester.

We also heard a little bit earlier from Claire Voix from the band.

She bad.

They'll be performing tomorrow night here at the Jazz Fest.

They're an Ontario bass band making their Jazz Fest debut and, relatively newcomers to the US touring market, which is exciting.

And we heard a little bit about that perspective.

We're going to hear a conversation now, with another international performer who is coming down to play the fest.

It's, this is Allison.

Oh, she's a saxophone player and a composer.

She's based in Toronto.

We the topics of border crossing and work permits and all that, we're very front of mind.

We had a conversation recently, so this is what she had to say.

This is Allison, our a performer based in Toronto.

I've been talking to a couple of musicians as well, folks who are playing the festival, and folks who have before Canadian musicians and, you know, a lot of what I'm hearing is just like, it's not, you know, like the.

Yeah, the climate's like, not super great politically.

There's maybe a little bit more fear.

But also, just like the process has been getting worse in general.

So that's kind of what I was curious to get a multitude of perspectives on.

So I just kind of want to ask you, like how how have you what's your experience been like this year?

I know, you know, you have you do some gigging in Ontario and stuff, and you have plans, like lined up for the summer.

But in terms of securing like work, work visa, work permit stuff here is that what's that experience been like this year compared to any previous years playing in the US?

Yeah.

Worse or worse for sure.

Okay.

I would also I mean, Covid also was a factor in my personal situation.

My band was pretty active stateside.

Before Covid hit, like I'd say from 2016 to 2019, I have a jazz quartet under my name, which will be performing at the festival in a couple weeks.

And we were, you know, we were in Cleveland and, and Indiana, just like stuff that was within driving distance of Toronto.

And then we did do a few tourists on the West Coast, through like Oregon, Washington state and California in the past.

And we always I mean, I always was super organized and budget enough time.

And I'm not sure if you're familiar, but with the Canadian, arts councils, there's a lot of granting agencies that help subsidize artistic endeavors for Canadian artists like the Canada Council for the Arts, the Ontario Arts Council, and then on the municipal level, there's there's several city arts councils that will give funding for recording projects and sometimes touring.

So we we benefited from quite a lot of, arts grants, government arts grants to help with touring.

So that's also gotten competitive on the Canadian side after Covid, which has made it increasingly more expensive for artists to tour.

But then with regard to the visas, like I said, we were pretty active before Covid.

And then the prices have crept up.

You know, a lot of it's with inflation.

So it's within reason.

But to be honest, like it's it's pretty expensive to go.

And unless the project like even if I was working as a side person, not a leader, you know, my co band member would have to be pretty active in booking if you want to really extend the life of the visa.

In my case, I'm talking about a P2.

You just have to show contracts for every performance.

I think the window is like every 45 days.

If to show that you have a gig, if you want to max the length of the visa so you could get up, I think to a year, I could be mistaken.

I've never gotten one for that long.

Okay, I've only done short visas like two weeks, three weeks, and shown contracts and performance agreements for all of those to justify the length of time.

But, as it stands, if you're not able to secure extra dates, a lot of bands are just going out for one concert, right?

And you have to pay the same flat rate every time if you can't get enough shows lined up.

So that's what's been happening with me is that, since Covid, I have reached out to a lot of previous contacts, a lot of bookers have changed since then.

So that's also a natural fact of the business.

But we were just stateside in April for a school workshop, and I was trying to coordinate more dates around that to make it more of a tour, and wasn't successful this time.

Okay, so I had to get a visa just for a single date.

And then the Rochester date came in.

It was outside of the window that would have been eligible for that same visa.

So I'd apply for another visa for one concert.

That's wild.

Yeah, yeah.

So it's very expensive.

And again, I guess it's also circumstantial.

Like perhaps if I was more active and booking with more time and more notice, I could have coordinated more dates.

But yeah, for a lot of indie artists, like a lot of jazz musicians who don't have an agent, you're doing it on your own.

And if you don't have the time to keep hitting up bookers and presenters regularly, it's really hard to get like a longer string of dates.

So yeah, this year's been fine.

I've had to apply for two separate visas for two single date engagements.

Wow.

So it's expensive.

And like, I would imagine a lot of the time it's more ideal to get.

So you're playing two gigs here and you can for the festival one day, but 2 to 2 different shows.

I would imagine it's more economically beneficial to you as the artist to try to line up, you know, like a weekend's worth of shows, for example, because cram as many in and then, you know, whatever you have to pay to secure all the paperwork and the logistics, you're ideally making that worth your while.

On the other side, booking is yeah, you can't exactly.

And I think maybe the biggest factor that's changed.

So so yeah.

So I will acknowledge a lot of it is on the side of the artists to try their best to just coordinate.

So a lot that's on my end.

But what's making it harder right now is the fees have gone up and the processing times are insanely unpredictable.

So it used to be a lot of canning artists could budget maybe like four months lead time.

So you would apply for the visa and you'd likely get a process within a four month window, which has plenty of time to still be able to like.

If you don't get the visa, you can still cancel your shows you have like this window.

But now the processing times.

If it gets sent to a certain processing center, it can be up to eight months waiting, right?

Yeah, that's what I've been hearing.

It's like if it goes all the way to California, then you're you're just waiting and then.

Yeah, exactly.

Expedited fee.

Or you can you can choose to in hopes that you'll get an expedited I and I can't afford the expired fee.

So the situation with my band at the moment is we got a visa to do the school engagement back in April, and I got the Rochester date offer a little late because I had already applied for this initial first visa.

So we applied for a second visa, and I actually don't have it at the moment.

Okay, so we're hopping on a friend of ours, another Toronto band's visa, and they're swapping out musicians so that my band can join on it.

Wow.

Because I don't even have my visa in time and I've already paid the fee and I won't get that back.

That's so like, yeah, I may not get it for a few months, in which case potentially we would have already missed the gig.

Wow.

So that's a big I mean, I'm fortunate there's another Canadian band that's going down and they have several musicians on their visa already that we can just swap into it for an extra fee.

But yeah, there's a lot of ensembles that are just missing their concert and that seems.

Yeah.

And I guess, like it's hard because, well, to try to, to try to dial in on some precision of like in the last few years is that you're saying, have you noticed this has been difference really in the past five years since Covid, or has it been longer than that?

I mean, I don't know, I'm trying to think about because obviously there's like the there's also sort of, and we can talk about this as much as you want or don't want to, but there's also kind of the uncertain, like political climate at the border of detention and that sort of like threat as well, which is kind of related to this is sort of separate, but that, that makes, that's, that's like a more recent thing as of, you know, the past five, six months.

Whereas are you talking more about the fees have just gone up over the past five years or something like that?

Yeah, I think, I think I would attribute to that.

I don't think it's necessarily a recent thing that the fees have always been going up.

But I think the added element is, yes, part of me.

In the last five months, the anxiety around crossing has increased and heightened with just with the trade war and the tariffs.

And then a couple of stories.

Now, albeit I understand that in some of the stories that have been making news headlines recently about Canadians crossing over who have had issues or have been detained, there were other issues at play or there was something wrong with a passport or, to my understanding, there was some other outstanding issue that made it difficult for people to cross.

But it has been making a lot of Canadian musicians, like, extremely anxious to cross.

And even for the engagement I did back in April, one of my musicians dropped out because they did not want to cross the border.

So, that has been happening.

There's a lot of sentiment of not even wanting to come to the US right now, which I'm sure I mean, that's across the board, regardless of the arts community.

I think that's happening with just like tourists.

Yeah.

But yeah, there are a lot of Canadians who have lost a lot of interest, period.

There's also so I know that there's the American Federation of Musicians, which covers a great deal of musicians in both the US and Canada.

Is that is that something I've just heard?

There's like, obviously union membership has its perks in that some, some of the like relational, aspects of it that can be bigger, like battles that you don't necessarily have to fight like a one on one thing can be sort of taken care of for you.

I was curious if do you have any firsthand experience with that?

No.

I mean, unfortunately, I haven't had too many issues that involved, contract problems or flaws.

So I haven't used a union, to assist me in that process.

Okay.

But to be honest, the only like reason I've joined the union was to come to the, in Toronto as a working freelance musician.

The union like, to my experience, I haven't really needed affiliation with the union at all.

Okay, so there's I, I mean, unless you're doing very specific types of work, for example, some of my friends who are involved in the music theater circuit in Toronto and more expansively in Ontario, do you do have to be affiliated with a union because they do work on union rates?

Okay.

But a lot of club dates and, cash gigs, weddings, corporate events.

You don't have to be part of the union at all.

So it hasn't really served me in any way, work wise, really.

But in terms of the visa, they do petition for artists.

Assist in the process.

Okay.

Gotcha.

Okay.

That's.

Yeah, that's that's helpful to know.

Do you think, there.

And I really appreciate this.

I, it's just helpful to, to hear multiple different musicians largely saying the same thing, but through various different, personal perspectives, because obviously everybody's different.

Every story is different.

Is there a is there a scenario that you can foresee where in the next few years, if the rates, if the fees rather like keep increasing, will it sort of price you out?

Because I that's something that I've also been hearing too about.

Like just if it comes to a point, like it just might not be worth it economically anymore to play in the US.

Yeah, probably.

That's I mean, it's already happening, but yeah, it's, it is going to get to a point probably where, only the whatever percentage and most likely that will be also defined by genre.

Unfortunately, like, I could see a lot of pop, pop acts maybe continuing, their activity in the US simply because maybe there's label backing and there's other types of supports in place.

But again, for the majority of jazz musicians, who have no label support, which is also a dying affiliation in general.

Yeah.

And the lack of money being earned, through streaming, I think it's just across the board.

So it's just increasingly more and more difficult, even for artists seeing in their home cities.

Like, I think a lot of artists are already moving, a lot out of a lot of urban centers, too, because just cost of living is going up in general.

But, yeah, to maybe speak more to the actual border crossing for Canadians historically it's been difficult.

And yeah, with the fees going up, I foresee that it's probably going to be a smaller percentage.

It's just a while to get because I think you're right.

I think the the streaming portion of it really is, is linked to that as well.

And cost of living, as you say, those are all pieces of, a greater, perhaps shift, but it's really not a shift that it's just it's just, things compound, especially independent musicians, where, you know, one thing on top of the other, you know.

Yeah.

If you're not even making, you know, the the money at the live gig that you're no longer making because of streaming royalties or, you know, a pittance, then I, I can totally understand that.

That's, Yeah, that's a that's an interesting and feels like it's accelerating in some way.

Like that feels like 20 years ago it things weren't didn't feel so dire.

I mean, I wasn't a performing musician.

I've never been before a musician, but I just it doesn't seem it seems like things of getting are getting faster on that front.

Yeah.

And it's it's hard.

I think it's just a confluence of, of, factors.

So it's not exclusively like the kind of US thing.

Right?

There's a lot of things that are shifting, the climate, I guess, for a lot of live performing musicians and.

Yeah, like a lot of musicians would sell merch at shows like, you know, vinyl CDs.

People are not buying CDs anymore.

So what other merch do you have to sell to help subsidize your expenses?

Because the artist fees are not, like, there.

Oh, okay.

But unless the festival's also going to help cover your travel and accommodations and for dams, there's just so many expenses, to account for the unfortunate factors that for Canadians, the market is small and cities are very far apart in Canada.

It's not easy to tour.

Yeah.

So I think when you reach a certain level, in like my career and like my peers career is respectively, the US seems to be a very logical stepping stone just to branch out to a new market that's perhaps even closer than other Canadian cities, like closer proximity, quite literally.

And then when that's out of the question, I probably see Canadians more likely going to Europe next, to kind of bridge or expand on their, performing scope or even Asia perhaps.

But the U.S is like not really viable.

That's why, you know, it's so close.

Yeah, right.

That's what's so wild.

Yeah.

It makes the, you know, we're in Rochester.

We're we're super close.

Like, it's it's it's so strange how.

Oh yeah.

The like the vibe is very different now.

Like, kind of things that we never used to think about.

Things that we never know, you know, just.

Oh, yeah.

Like, my parents live in Buffalo.

You can be in on the Peace Bridge and, you know, in ten minutes from their house, like it's right.

Yeah.

So, yeah, the vibe and economically we're starting to feel that too, where, you know, there's a certain percentage of businesses local here that rely on, southern Ontario tourism and we're not sure to the same degree.

So it's definitely kind of going it's definitely going both ways in, in different economic aspects, not just in our district, but in a lot of different economic sectors.

So yeah.

Very strange.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So I, I see Canadians probably still coming to the US, but probably a smaller percentage and only, I don't say the top musicians, I just said the top grossing act like music acts that could actually afford to have, you know, that visa expense covered.

And then all the X, y, z, travel expenses that go with that, probably only those types of acts will be crossing the border in the next little while.

Increasingly so.

Yeah.

But the I mean, indie artists have always, you know, historically have had a hard time anyway.

So it's not like it's new news, but it's it's just getting harder and harder, that's all.

Yeah.

Well, I, you know, we're still, we're stoked about the fest.

Still, I actually think there's a good amount of I mean, I don't know, I haven't, certainly haven't done the numbers, but I would have to say at least like a quarter of the performers that we have are like our Canadian performers, I would say.

I mean, there's like, okay, I didn't realize that.

Maybe not, maybe not a core, but I mean, 15 to 20 to 25%, I would say.

Yeah.

Yeah, good.

Pretty good amount.

So that's kind of cool.

That is really good.

Oh that's awesome.

Yeah.

I wasn't aware of like the actual ratio, but I know Rochester has embraced a lot of Canadian acts in the past.

Which is why I reached out to them to, you know, as, yeah, just trying to organize a date.

So I'm glad it worked out, but yeah, we're we're still excited, like, I think I think also it's important to mention, like, the overall sentiment amongst the musicians in Toronto is like, this is all about community.

And like, unfortunately, the political situation is is a little tense between Canadian and, Americans in terms of the trade stuff that's going on.

But I think if you speak to the majority of musicians, like myself included, like we're all hopeful and optimistic and like, music is about congregating and being together.

And I think the vast majority of people don't care and don't even want to think about that.

The fact that there is a border, like we just want to share music and play and hopeful for the day where, like, more extensive and, freer travel would eventually be permitted at some point.

Yeah, because the ease with which Americans come over into Canada and play festivals is one of our largest venues.

They have no, to my knowledge, any issues of crossing.

Right.

But it's it's just like this other direction.

It's so hard for Canadians to, to come in.

It just feels like there is no interest, in embracing Canadians on the other end of things.

Yeah.

So it just makes it hard.

Real.

Well, that was musician Alison.

Oh, she was speaking, had of coming to the jazz festival this year.

She'll be performing with the Alison Al Quartet at the Rochester International Jazz Festival.

They're playing the in on Broadway on June 28th, the last day of the festival.

Here with Bill to Berio as well.

Long time performer at the fest who's also playing and who has played this year will play this year sort of in the middle of it.

Bill, what's your reaction to that hearing a lot of what goes into that.

I mean, again, it's not a 1 to 1 comparison at all, but based on your your sort of knowledge and your experience, what do you make of that?

I hope that that a lot of these hurdles can be, can be overcome, because music is music, as she said in the community of music lovers and embraces.

It's it goes in every direction.

So I know that, when, when musicians arrive here from anywhere in the world, they're really, really welcomed by the Rochester audiences.

And actually, the Rochester Music Fest has grown in in its own reach, too.

So people come from other states even to sit, you know, stay here for a week and, specifically, they come because it's an international festival.

They get to hear music that they would never hear anywhere else.

So, I'm hoping that a lot of those issues can be ironed out over time and that we can get to, a, you know, an easier way for, for people to travel to, to do, to do artists, artists work in different countries, you know, whatever direction we're coming and from a personal standpoint, have you played in Canada much or in Europe, or am I not in a while?

I, I seem to say I've never been to Europe.

I haven't been to Europe at all, but I have been to Canada.

I've played there maybe a couple of times.

Okay.

There there always are issues of, you know, making sure you have documentation for your equipment and things that you're bringing in.

And if you're making money in Canada, there's certainly forms that people have to fill out.

And and so yeah, I think that is a long time, you know, challenge for musicians making sure they have all of that stuff together when they're traveling out of the country.

Right.

Because it's very easy to overlook you spent so much time planning.

Right.

And you're talking about, you know, routing a tour is yeah, I'm the worst at that.

I'm not a planner.

So I, I leave that to people that are really good with that kinds of, with logistics and with, you know, numbers that, well, you got other stuff to focus on, right?

You got your instrument together, music, you know.

Absolutely.

So, you know, and to that point, we talked a little bit earlier.

So you'll, you'll just have say it again, you'll be performing again tonight or you actually star, you'll be directing tonight.

You'll not be performing to be directing the The Music Educators Jazz Ensemble, which is sponsored by the Eastman Community Music School.

Tonight at 730 and 930 on the very toasty stage at, Jazz Street, which is Gibson East.

Those are those are always really well attended, evenings.

And then, prior to that, there'll be some high school groups, unless they were all unable to play because of the heat index tonight.

Right.

And I'm also playing with a, a tribute band, a Steely Dan tribute band in the big tent tomorrow night at 830.

It's a band called Bad Sneakers, and, we do optimism, you know, lots and lots of the different records from Steely Dan and try to recreate that music with a 13 piece band.

So that's an honor in a big tent tomorrow night.

So I thought that caught my eye because, I'm talking about Steely Dan.

I mean, sort of notorious studio perfectionist.

Absolutely.

Trying to take that and translate it to a live site.

And their music's challenging and it's really interesting.

It's harmonically really rich music.

Musicians are very drawn to the music of Steely Dan.

And yet there are and we are mentioning this earlier to each other.

There's some hooks and some some songs that are very popular still.

And young people that, like music are often drawn to the music of Steely Dan.

So they were studio perfectionists and yeah, they would bring in the top musicians in the world, and they were very demanding and they knew exactly what they wanted, and they got incredible results.

So what's the what's the fun?

Is there a lot of fun and sort of trying to, like, unpack or like, solve a little bit of a musical?

You know, we still we still have arguments about what chords are going or what chords Donald Fagan was, was playing on certain things.

And there are 13 really, really good musicians in this group.

And, sometimes we we have not heard it the same way.

And so, you know.

Yeah.

There's music to unpack there that's really interesting and some different interpretations of how, how harmonics are working in their, in their music.

So some somebody might be like, man, 13 musicians doesn't require that many to do Steely Dan.

But I would argue probably.

Yeah.

Right.

So the the backup vocalists are integrated into much of the, of the music of Steely Dan.

So there are three background vocalists and a lead vocalist, of course.

And there are three horns and many of the tunes, we're, we're driven by really, really well crafted horn arrangements.

So that's a that's kind of a an integral part of that Steely Dan sound.

And then, the fact that there are two guitar players and two keyboard players, that was also something that the Steely Dan sound, incorporated.

So we're trying to, we're trying to, to, to put that as close, as close to the sound and recreate it as possible.

Sure.

And of course, Rochester, a great local connection.

Steve Gadd playing the drums on.

Right.

And right and Steve Gadd, right.

That is probably one of the best.

And you know, the it's hard to say what things are the best, but he he certainly is known as one of the finest drummers of all time.

And that solo on Asia Asia is a it's one that it's it's definitely, a mount Rushmore solo for drummers.

It definitely.

Yeah.

So, just quickly as we wrap up, I sort of mentioned we're we're halfway through Jazz Fest here.

Apart from the extreme heat I have, how is this year felt?

It always feels like a, like, a party.

It feels like people come in a good mood.

They leave in a better mood.

You know, there's a lot of smiling.

There's a lot of reconnections that people make.

You see, some people once a year and it comes, you know, it comes to an event that they might come down to the jazz fest.

So I always feel like, and I've been saying this a lot to people, that there's a lot of pride that people in Rochester have, that we have this festival.

And I think they they don't take it for granted and they support it.

And so it does feel very uplifting, very inspiring every single year.

Well, I have to shout out one more time, bad sneakers, June 25th.

Two sets for that one.

Just just ones.

Just the ones that a 90 minute show at 830 in the big tent tomorrow night.

And then of course, conducting or.

Sorry, I keep saying conducting, directing the music man.

Yeah.

Okay.

So you are conducting that.

Isn't that not as much as a wind ensemble or an orchestra, but more directional assistance.

All right.

And then that's tonight.

The music for big band tonight.

730 and 930.

Bill Abarrio.

And of course, your band.

We said this, but you played the Duke.

Played the Duke on Sunday night, but there's no shortage of places to see Bill to bury a band around town.

Right.

This summer.

We're really lucky.

Well, thanks for coming by, Bill and Talking Jazz Fest.

I also want to thank Claire Foy.

You can catch her group.

She bad.

They're performing tomorrow at 730 and 945 at the Duke.

And I want to thank Allison.

Our her quartet is performing Saturday, June 28th at the Inn on Broadway.

Two sets there.

That's 530 and 745.

The full schedule, of course, is always available at Rochester jazz.com, and you can grab a copy of City Magazine's June issue.

We did a primer on the festival and the shows that you won't want to miss.

So, thanks to all our guests.

I'm Patrick Hoskins, sitting in for Evan Dawson here.

Connections.

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